"Latest bank fee is for paying off credit card on time every month"
aesthete8
Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
be good?:
Clincher
"aesthete8" <art...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd85cac0-b8f3-499a...@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>
> Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
> be good?:
Another fine consequence of the CARD Act and its zeal to protect
irresponsible card users from the consequences of their actions.
Used to be the reason for monitoring my cc account was for fraud. Now it's
just as much to assure myself that I still *have* an account. Thankfully,
there are relatively few situations where I have to use a credit card but
still, thanks for nothing, Obama. Me and my credit card issuer were getting
alone fine for 20 years without your help (yes, banks are greedy. Big deal,
so am I.) Now I'll be lucky if I'm not paying an annual fee next year to
subsidize the deadbeats.
The Real Bev
Good luck with that. I've got a lot of credit cards that I signed up for
because they offered some sort of discount/free money, and when I cancel each
of them I'll be happy to tell them exactly why -- the same reason I canceled
AT&T when they started charging $3 minimum/month for LD.
I can't remember the last time I used my BofA Visa. Maybe never, they don't
give points.
--
Cheers, Bev
***********************************************
"A complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
that the conspiracy is working." -- Tanuki
Rod Speed
> Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
Unlikely.
> Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to be good?:
That isnt what is happening. ALL that is happening is that the
freebie that some have offered for a while has stopped with them.
tmclone
> Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>
> Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
> be good?:
>
Ok, so I use BoA, and they pay me about $750 cash in rewards every
year. I pay off my balance in full every month. If they decide that I
have to pay $29-$99 a year to get the $750, so be it. For the first 20
years I had credit cards, nearly EVERY card issuer charge an annual
fee, whether you paid the balance in full each month or not. So what?
Seriously, why should I be able to use their card for free AND get
$750 a year? Sure, they're getting money from the merchants (I am one,
so I know), but still, even if they impose a $100 fee I'll be netting
$650 of free money. Again, works for me.
tmclone
> aesthete8 wrote:
> > Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>
> > Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
> > be good?:
>
>
> Good luck with that. I've got a lot of credit cards that I signed up for
> because they offered some sort of discount/free money, and when I cancel each
> of them I'll be happy to tell them exactly why -- the same reason I canceled
> AT&T when they started charging $3 minimum/month for LD.
>
> I can't remember the last time I used my BofA Visa. Maybe never, they don't
> give points.
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> ***********************************************
> "A complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
> that the conspiracy is working." -- Tanuki
Umm, sure they do, A minimum of 1%, and on most of my transactions 5%.
I get about $750 back each year. What are you on about?
tmclone
Now I'll be lucky if I'm not paying an annual fee next year to
> subsidize the deadbeats.
You do realize that "deadbeats" is the term used by the credit card
issuers for those of us who pay the balance in full every month and
thereby never incur an interest fee, right?
SMS
> aesthete8 wrote:
<snip>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2009-10-19-bank-of-america-card-fee_N.htm?se=yahoorefer
>>
>
> Good luck with that.
If I ran a credit card company then I certainly wouldn't be happy with
you or me as a customer. Never pay interest, never pay late fees, charge
everything, but get more back in cash back then the credit card company
collects in merchant fees.
How long can they continue these rewards cards? Countrywide had a 2%
cash back Visa that they dropped after they got sold to BOA. One card I
have offers a $500 airline ticket on any airline for $25,000 in charges,
essentially 2% if you use the full value, but they no longer offer the
card (though they haven't dropped existing card-holders). Now Schwab has
a 2% cash back Visa, which has the additional benefit of not charging
any foreign transaction fee--they even absorb the 1% that Visa charges.
The Costco Business Amex gives 4% back on gasoline, much more than Amex
charges most gas stations.
Basically the people subsidizing the credit card system are a) those
people that carry a balance, and b) the people using cash, checks, debit
cards, and non-rewards credit cards. While it's great that they're
willing to do this, how long is this boondoggle going to last?
George
You must really like banks? I'll bet you call to congressman to make
sure they voted to pick money out of everyones pocket to help their
banking friends? They are only getting money indirectly from the merchants.
George
Since the mega banks own all of the politicians I can't imagine any
changes being made. The ultimate goal is for cash to go away with banks
firmly inserted into every single transaction. It will go away when that
happens because they won't need to do it.
I always thought if someone wants rewards they should pay for them
themselves.
bartc
This is the interest fee, on top of the fee that the credit card company
already charges retailers?
And which when it is paid, is at an extortionate figure like 20% at time
when the interest banks pay to savers is virtually 0% (in the UK anyway).
And often accompanied by late payment charges which can push the effective
rate to 100% or more.
Sounds like the credit card companies want to have their cake and eat it...
tmclone
>
> - Show quoted text -
WTF are you babbling about? I merely explained that by careful use of
my credit card I earn enough cash back to pay for the fees I am
charged as a merchant to accept credit cards. I actually come out a
bit ahead, even if I were charged an annual fee, which currently I am
not. How does that translate to "liking banks"? They get money
DIRECTLY (not indirectly) from merchants (like myself) who benefit
from being able to accept credit cards. Why would you think I
supported the financial bailout? If they can't run their business on
the fees they charge, then they shouldn't be in business. But that's
another thread. You are an idiot. PLONK!
Rod Speed
Rod Speed
Just another of your silly little fantasys.
> I can't imagine any changes being made.
They just were. Nice theory, pity about the real world.
> The ultimate goal is for cash to go away with
> banks firmly inserted into every single transaction.
Doesnt matter what their ultimate goal is, it aint gunna happen.
> It will go away when that happens
Nope, because that aint gunna happen.
> because they won't need to do it.
> I always thought if someone wants rewards they should pay for them themselves.
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
What you claim to have always thought in spades.
Rod Speed
> tmclone wrote:
>> On Oct 20, 8:12 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>>>
>>> Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
>>> be good?:
>>>
>>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2009-10-19-bank-o...
>>
>> Ok, so I use BoA, and they pay me about $750 cash in rewards every
>> year. I pay off my balance in full every month. If they decide that I
>> have to pay $29-$99 a year to get the $750, so be it. For the first
>> 20 years I had credit cards, nearly EVERY card issuer charge an
>> annual fee, whether you paid the balance in full each month or not.
>> So what? Seriously, why should I be able to use their card for free AND get
>> $750 a year? Sure, they're getting money from the merchants (I am
>> one, so I know), but still, even if they impose a $100 fee I'll be
>> netting $650 of free money. Again, works for me.
> You must really like banks?
Nope. They are however useful.
> I'll bet you call to congressman to make sure they voted to pick money out of everyones pocket to help their banking
> friends?
You just lost that bet. How much was it for ?
> They are only getting money indirectly from the merchants.
Another pig ignorant lie. They are getting money DIRECTLY from the merchants.
Not that it matters a damn whether its directy or indirectly anyway.
holarchy
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> aesthete8 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2009-10-19-bank-of-america-card-fee_N.htm?se=yahoorefer
>>>
>>
>> Good luck with that.
> If I ran a credit card company then I certainly wouldn't be happy with you or me as a customer. Never pay interest,
> never pay late fees, charge everything,
And get transaction fees from every single transaction.
> but get more back in cash back then the credit card company collects in merchant fees.
Still makes the credit card company money the bulk of the time.
> How long can they continue these rewards cards?
As long as anyone is offering them.
> Countrywide had a 2%
> cash back Visa that they dropped after they got sold to BOA. One card
> I have offers a $500 airline ticket on any airline for $25,000 in
> charges, essentially 2% if you use the full value, but they no longer
> offer the card (though they haven't dropped existing card-holders).
> Now Schwab has a 2% cash back Visa, which has the additional benefit
> of not charging any foreign transaction fee--they even absorb the 1%
> that Visa charges. The Costco Business Amex gives 4% back on
> gasoline, much more than Amex charges most gas stations.
And those don't last long.
> Basically the people subsidizing the credit card system are a) those
> people that carry a balance, and b) the people using cash, checks,
> debit cards, and non-rewards credit cards.
They are just subsidizing them more than those who subsidized them least.
> While it's great that they're willing to do this, how long is this boondoggle going to last?
While ever some continue to do that sort of thing.
George
biggest expert on *everything*.
George
Got it, someone who has a different point of view than you is obviously
an idiot..
The Real Bev
> On Oct 20, 9:32 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> aesthete8 wrote:
>> > Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>>
>> > Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
>> > be good?:
>>
>> >http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2009-10-19-bank-o...
>>
>> Good luck with that. I've got a lot of credit cards that I signed up for
>> because they offered some sort of discount/free money, and when I cancel each
>> of them I'll be happy to tell them exactly why -- the same reason I canceled
>> AT&T when they started charging $3 minimum/month for LD.
>>
>> I can't remember the last time I used my BofA Visa. Maybe never, they don't
>> give points.
>
> Umm, sure they do, A minimum of 1%, and on most of my transactions 5%.
> I get about $750 back each year. What are you on about?
Each month they urge me to use my BofA card, but there never seem to be any
bribes involved. Maybe it's a local thing.
--
Cheers, Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.
Rod Speed
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Rod Speed
> Got it,
Nope, you never ever do.
> someone who has a different point of view than you is obviously an idiot..
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
phil scott
I cancelled all of my credit cards two years ago,,, and checking
account too. I use cash
and money orders and keep a safeway cash card for use on line.
I get no bills in the mail that way, and am not temped to use the
cards and run up
balances ... I also dont expose myself to the wide range of banking
tricks and hose jobs. I have
zero exposure to all of that... it feels a lot better than I thought
ti would.
Phil scott
Rod Speed
> On Oct 20, 5:32 pm, "Clincher" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
>> "aesthete8" <art...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:cd85cac0-b8f3-499a...@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Am I the only one who thinks that this is a rip off?
>>
>>> Isn't a society going downhill when if forces its citizens to pay to
>>> be good?:
>>
>> Another fine consequence of the CARD Act and its zeal to protect
>> irresponsible card users from the consequences of their actions.
>>
>> Used to be the reason for monitoring my cc account was for fraud.
>> Now it's just as much to assure myself that I still *have* an
>> account. Thankfully, there are relatively few situations where I
>> have to use a credit card but still, thanks for nothing, Obama. Me
>> and my credit card issuer were getting alone fine for 20 years
>> without your help (yes, banks are greedy. Big deal, so am I.) Now
>> I'll be lucky if I'm not paying an annual fee next year to subsidize
>> the deadbeats.
> I cancelled all of my credit cards two years ago,,, and
> checking account too. I use cash and money orders
Wota fucking dinosaur.
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to use rewards, specially for a destitute like you.
> and keep a safeway cash card for use on line.
> I get no bills in the mail that way, and am not
> temped to use the cards and run up balances ...
Most of us have some will power.
And those that dont can use a debit card, dinosaur.
> I also dont expose myself to the wide range of banking tricks and hose jobs.
Completely trivial to avoid all of those.
> I have zero exposure to all of that...
So do I, and have the convenience of a number of cards as well.
> it feels a lot better than I thought ti would.
Not all of us have the will power of a limp lettuce.
George
robotic responses?
tmclone
credit card, pay the balance in full every month automatically online,
and I get $750 a year in cash back from the card issuer. I bet I feel
a LOT better about my free $750 than you do using cash. Obviously the
prospect of being robbed hasn't scared the stupid out of you.
SMS
It's not just that people like Phil subsidize the cash back that others
get, they also are losing valuable protections that the use of a credit
card (but not a debit card) offers. Plus paying for money orders is
pretty ridiculous. And how does he rent a car, reserve a hotel, buy
airline tickets, or buy anything on-line?
SMS
> WTF are you babbling about? I merely explained that by careful use of
> my credit card I earn enough cash back to pay for the fees I am
> charged as a merchant to accept credit cards. I actually come out a
> bit ahead, even if I were charged an annual fee, which currently I am
> not. How does that translate to "liking banks"? They get money
> DIRECTLY (not indirectly) from merchants (like myself) who benefit
> from being able to accept credit cards. Why would you think I
> supported the financial bailout? If they can't run their business on
> the fees they charge, then they shouldn't be in business. But that's
> another thread. You are an idiot. PLONK!
It's a common misconception among smaller merchants that cash is always
the least expensive method of payment to accept. Merchants need to
consider both the fixed and variable costs of each payment method, and
how costs vary by the amount of the transaction.
Cash has significant costs. It exposes the merchant to the risk of human
error making change, theft by employees, robbery, and counterfeiting,
with all the costs associated with trying to prevent those things from
happening (cameras, guards, safes, training). Accepting cash is very
labor intensive, and hence can require additional cashiers as well as
additional personnel to manage the cash (reconcile the cash in the
register with the records, prepare deposits, and transport the cash to
the bank (generally by armored car)). Banks charge all sorts of fees to
businesses that they don't charge to personal account holders, including
fees for providing coins, and fees for deposits of both cash and coins.
Supposedly, debit cards are the least expensive method of payment to
accept, except on small transactions where the fixed transaction fee is
a larger percentage of the total sale. Credit cards are the most costly
to accept, but businesses lose a significant amount of business if they
don't accept them, which is more than the cost of accepting them. A few
businesses with very low prices can get away with not accepting credit
cards; Arco and Pet Club are two I can think of in my area (both take
debit cards, but Arco charges a fee to offset the fee the bank charges).
The real reason many small merchants prefer cash is because there can be
no record of it so they can not declare it as income. I've been to many
restaurants where they offer some sort of perk to encourage cash. In
NYC they offered us a discount of about 8% to pay cash ("pay no sales
tax"), which was far more than the cost of any credit card fees. Of
course they planned to a) not pay the state and city any sales tax at
all on the transaction, and b) not report the sale as income for income
tax reasons. Recently in California a restaurant offered us free
(non-alcoholic) beverages if we would pay cash. Since beverages have a
very low cost to the restaurant this would seem to be a good deal for
them, but only if most of the customers would not be ordering beverages
otherwise.
SMS
> Do you ever tire of making yourself look so silly with your set of
> robotic responses?
Don't you realize that "Rod Speed" actually is an automated response
generator? The only people that look silly are the ones that respond to
it with indignation over how stupid the responses the bot actually are.
Whoever wrote the "Rod Speed" auto-responder probably also has some sort
of bot that counts the responses to the posts.
SMS
> Even for people who pay off their credit card balances in full on time
> each month, the credit card companies still make money from the
> transaction fee that occurs each time these credit cards are used.
The disconnect here is that most of the transaction fee goes to the
credit card company, but the rewards (cash back or whatever) comes from
the consumer's issuing bank which is unlikely to be the same bank that
the merchant is using. Since credit cards with rewards process at a
higher rate, some of the higher transaction fee goes back to the issuing
bank, but the fee still isn't high enough to pay 2-5% in rewards. The
card issuer needs enough interest paying customer to offset the rewards
paid to the more intelligent customers. I think the best cash-back (on
everything card) is now the Schwab card, which pays 2%. It's also very
selectively issued, and the customers likely to qualify are the ones
least likely to carry a balance. Of course Schwab hopes to make money on
these customers in other ways.
The rewards cards let you offset the higher prices that credit cards
create throughout the retail industry, but it's still not a great
system. Now we're all paying for the screwed up banking system and their
losses from bad debts.
Vic Smith
<tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>>
>Shrug. I get no bills iin the mail either. I charge EVERYTHING on my
>credit card, pay the balance in full every month automatically online,
>and I get $750 a year in cash back from the card issuer. I bet I feel
>a LOT better about my free $750 than you do using cash. Obviously the
>prospect of being robbed hasn't scared the stupid out of you.
So how much do you spend each year to get that $750?
You do realize that a low-income person wouldn't get anywhere near
that, right?
I'm automated, and until I retired high-income.
So I do it as you do.
But I don't begrudge anybody who wants to do it differently.
And though I get considerable money using a cash back card,
it doesn't bring me pleasure.
Nor would going through the contortions Phil goes through.
But once you have a certain amount of cash in a few simple safe
deposit boxes or other "safe" places, you don't need credit cards,
debit cards, bank accounts, or even have to remember a social security
number.
You are number free.
Not very doable, but I did see the flick Atlantic City.
There a girl was telling Burt Lancaster, a hood who only dealt in
cash, that he couldn't get away with something.
"They will find you when you use your credit card," she tells him.
He smiles, and says, "I don't have a credit card."
"Then they will find you through your social security number," she
says.
His smile looks a bit puzzled. Is this girl stupid?
He just replies, "I don't have a social security number."
I was never more jealous of a person as when he said that.
Not that I want to be a hood.
But if I could deal in all cash, and toss out all the fucking numbers,
and fucking passwords I am required to use, I would do it in an
instant.
So don't be so uppity.
You are a prisoner of a system others have devised for you.
Me, I just want to fish.
Uh oh. Fishing license. Need SSN for that.
--Vic
tmclone
wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:09:27 -0700 (PDT), tmclone
>
>
> >Shrug. I get no bills iin the mail either. I charge EVERYTHING on my
> >credit card, pay the balance in full every month automatically online,
> >and I get $750 a year in cash back from the card issuer. I bet I feel
> >a LOT better about my free $750 than you do using cash. Obviously the
> >prospect of being robbed hasn't scared the stupid out of you.
>
> So how much do you spend each year to get that $750?
> You do realize that a low-income person wouldn't get anywhere near
> that, right?
I AM a low-income person these days. I spend $40k a year, but about
$22K of it is for business raw materials. The economy sucks so my
business sales are way down, but I make all my business purchases on
the card plus food, utilities, gas,etc. Actually I put EVERYTHING
except my mortgage payment on the card. My small local bank offers
great interest rates but you can only pay by check. However, my
mortgage is very small, so the points wouldn't matter that much
anyway.
tmclone
> The real reason many small merchants prefer cash is because there can be
> no record of it so they can not declare it as income.
Agreed. Cash is only good if you're a tax cheat. I'm 100% internet, so
I have neither the ability nor the desire to defraud the gubmint.
EVERY single sale is a credit card (ok, the occasional luddite mails
in a form along with a money order payable to my company name) so I
don't have to worry about anything at tax time, it's all right there
in the bank statement.
Rod Speed
holarchy
> tmclone wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 12:05 am, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>>> I get no bills in the mail that way, and am not temped to use the
>>> cards and run up
>>> balances ... I also dont expose myself to the wide range of banking
>>> tricks and hose jobs. I have
>>> zero exposure to all of that... it feels a lot better than I thought
>>> ti would.
>>>
>> Shrug. I get no bills iin the mail either. I charge EVERYTHING on my
>> credit card, pay the balance in full every month automatically
>> online, and I get $750 a year in cash back from the card issuer. I
>> bet I feel a LOT better about my free $750 than you do using cash.
>> Obviously the prospect of being robbed hasn't scared the stupid out
>> of you.
>
> It's not just that people like Phil subsidize the cash back that
> others get, they also are losing valuable protections that the use of
> a credit card (but not a debit card) offers.
That last is a lie.
> Plus paying for money orders is pretty ridiculous.
Indeed.
> And how does he rent a car, reserve a hotel, buy airline tickets, or buy anything on-line?
He already said he uses a safeway cash card for online purchases.
tmclone
>
> > And how does he rent a car, reserve a hotel, buy airline tickets, or buy anything on-line?
>
> He already said he uses a safeway cash card for online purchases.- Hide quoted text -
>
I seriously doubt you can use a "safeway cash card", whatever that is,
to rent a car, reserve a hotel, or buy airline tickets. And as for
buying things online, I sure as hell wouldn't accept that as payment
and most other online companies probably don't either. And not having
a checking account? If you insist on ONLY using cash you are paying
WAY more for everything than you should to say nothing of the time
involved in going to the bank or the post office every time you need a
money order. Insane.
holarchy
> On Oct 22, 2:19 pm, "holarchy" <holar...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> And how does he rent a car, reserve a hotel, buy airline tickets,
>>> or buy anything on-line?
>>
>> He already said he uses a safeway cash card for online purchases.-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>
> I seriously doubt you can use a "safeway cash card", whatever
> that is, to rent a car, reserve a hotel, or buy airline tickets.
No one ever said you could.
> And as for buying things online, I sure as hell wouldn't accept that
> as payment and most other online companies probably don't either.
You're wrong on that last.
> And not having a checking account? If you insist on ONLY using cash you are paying
> WAY more for everything than you should to say nothing of the time
> involved in going to the bank or the post office every time you need a
> money order. Insane.
Sure, but that's a separate issue to what he is using for online purchases.
tmclone
Whoops, that should have been $32K a year for raw materials. After all
my business expenses I expect to clear about $15K this year.
phil scott
correct...you cant. Im retired however so dont do that a lot...I live
around the limitations of
not having a card at that level...when I had a lot of travel I used
cards, then due to slow paying customers (that if you hassle you loose
the business) my cards ran up and over...that was serious heart burn
for me
'
Now, retired, im doing a lot less business and what i do is on my
terms since I dont need much...its immediate pay for work done. no
cards.
all things are like that... depends on ones personal situation. the
safeway type cards work well on ebay etc...but no, you cant rent a
car with one, you can buy an airline ticket though, they just need the
cash. the car companies use the credit card as a screening tool and
ability to back charge you when you go over mileage or whatever.
Phil scott
phil scott
> In article <qit0e5hbnolelm9dp7ag9pq5auk6g3q...@4ax.com>,
> Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:09:27 -0700 (PDT), tmclone
> > <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
> > So how much do you spend each year to get that $750?
> > You do realize that a low-income person wouldn't get anywhere near
> > that, right?
>
> cards. Low-income people suffer in a variety of ways in our
> consumer-driven economy, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that credit
> cards can work to a consumer's favor if they are used wisely.
>
> > I'm automated, and until I retired high-income.
> > So I do it as you do.
> > But I don't begrudge anybody who wants to do it differently.
> > And though I get considerable money using a cash back card,
> > it doesn't bring me pleasure.
>
>
> > Nor would going through the contortions Phil goes through.
> > But once you have a certain amount of cash in a few simple safe
> > deposit boxes or other "safe" places, you don't need credit cards,
> > debit cards, bank accounts, or even have to remember a social security
> > number.
>
>
> > You are number free.
>
> Nah! Identification numbers are still necessary for insurance of any
> type, especially medical and any kind of bank account.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Not very doable, but I did see the flick Atlantic City.
> > There a girl was telling Burt Lancaster, a hood who only dealt in
> > cash, that he couldn't get away with something.
> > "They will find you when you use your credit card," she tells him.
> > He smiles, and says, "I don't have a credit card."
> > "Then they will find you through your social security number," she
> > says.
> > His smile looks a bit puzzled. Is this girl stupid?
> > He just replies, "I don't have a social security number."
> > I was never more jealous of a person as when he said that.
> > Not that I want to be a hood.
> > But if I could deal in all cash, and toss out all the fucking numbers,
> > and fucking passwords I am required to use, I would do it in an
> > instant.
> > So don't be so uppity.
> > You are a prisoner of a system others have devised for you.
>
> stash their cash in their home. Just a couple of weeks ago, a bank in my
> area screwed up their merger with another bank and couldn't allow
> customers of the one former bank to get to their automatic payroll
> deposits. So even people who deal only with cash were screwed, in fact,
> those people were the first to feel the pay because the others who use
> credit cards can simply use them to float themselves a short-term loan
> and then pay it off without any interest if they paid the balance before
> it was due.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
nothing is bullet proof. .. each persons situation varies...no cure
fits all... but cash IS simpler for ME...it is more of a hassle in
other ways, though but
I handle most of it by keeping just 1,000 or 2,000 cash on hand ...
and am able to cut much better deals for cold cash than I can get by
using cards. Im not particularly good at that but I do get better
deals. some get half off on doctor visits etc for cash.
phil scott
>
> - Show quoted text -
regarding the use of a cash card on ebay... you use it to put money
in yer *paypal account..the use that to make purchases after the
amount clears..
Rod Speed
> nothing is bullet proof.
Cards are, unless you have the will power of a wet lettuce leaf.
> .. each persons situation varies...no cure fits all...
Cards do, unless you have the will power of a wet lettuce leaf.
> but cash IS simpler for ME...
Only because you have the will power of a wet lettuce leaf.
Rod Speed
MUCH more convenient to have a bank account that has no monthly fee.
George
> tmclone wrote:
>
>> WTF are you babbling about? I merely explained that by careful use of
>> my credit card I earn enough cash back to pay for the fees I am
>> charged as a merchant to accept credit cards. I actually come out a
>> bit ahead, even if I were charged an annual fee, which currently I am
>> not. How does that translate to "liking banks"? They get money
>> DIRECTLY (not indirectly) from merchants (like myself) who benefit
>> from being able to accept credit cards. Why would you think I
>> supported the financial bailout? If they can't run their business on
>> the fees they charge, then they shouldn't be in business. But that's
>> another thread. You are an idiot. PLONK!
>
> It's a common misconception among smaller merchants that cash is always
> the least expensive method of payment to accept. Merchants need to
> consider both the fixed and variable costs of each payment method, and
> how costs vary by the amount of the transaction.
Or not. Lots of merchants are on top of their game and know where their
costs are.
>
> Cash has significant costs. It exposes the merchant to the risk of human
> error making change, theft by employees, robbery, and counterfeiting,
> with all the costs associated with trying to prevent those things from
> happening (cameras, guards, safes, training). Accepting cash is very
> labor intensive, and hence can require additional cashiers as well as
> additional personnel to manage the cash (reconcile the cash in the
> register with the records, prepare deposits, and transport the cash to
> the bank (generally by armored car)). Banks charge all sorts of fees to
> businesses that they don't charge to personal account holders, including
> fees for providing coins, and fees for deposits of both cash and coins.
And its expensive to handle credit cards. No one suggested handling cash
has no associated cost.
>
> Supposedly, debit cards are the least expensive method of payment to
> accept, except on small transactions where the fixed transaction fee is
> a larger percentage of the total sale. Credit cards are the most costly
> to accept, but businesses lose a significant amount of business if they
> don't accept them, which is more than the cost of accepting them. A few
> businesses with very low prices can get away with not accepting credit
> cards; Arco and Pet Club are two I can think of in my area (both take
> debit cards, but Arco charges a fee to offset the fee the bank charges).
I don't know the exact reason but at least in my state you can't charge
fees. I think it makes perfect sense to do so.
>
> The real reason many small merchants prefer cash is because there can be
> no record of it so they can not declare it as income. I've been to many
> restaurants where they offer some sort of perk to encourage cash. In
> NYC they offered us a discount of about 8% to pay cash ("pay no sales
> tax"), which was far more than the cost of any credit card fees. Of
> course they planned to a) not pay the state and city any sales tax at
> all on the transaction, and b) not report the sale as income for income
> tax reasons. Recently in California a restaurant offered us free
> (non-alcoholic) beverages if we would pay cash. Since beverages have a
> very low cost to the restaurant this would seem to be a good deal for
> them, but only if most of the customers would not be ordering beverages
> otherwise.
Or not. Not wanting to shovel more money into the banks coffers doesn't
mean everyone is a tax cheat. There are lots of businesses that keep
very meticulous records that include the cash. They also are on top of
what their costs are and know it could be very easy for the bank to do
better than them.
George
Cash is also good if you don't happen to like the idea of the banks
inserting themselves into every transaction. That doesn't make anyone a
tax cheat or a luddite.
There is no particular problem in any accounting system with recording
various payment methods.
Rod Speed
> tmclone wrote
>> SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote
>>> The real reason many small merchants prefer cash is because there can be no record of it so they can not declare it
>>> as income.
>> Agreed. Cash is only good if you're a tax cheat. I'm 100% internet,
>> so I have neither the ability nor the desire to defraud the gubmint.
>> EVERY single sale is a credit card (ok, the occasional luddite mails
>> in a form along with a money order payable to my company name) so I don't have to worry about anything at tax time,
>> it's all right there in the bank statement.
> Cash is also good if you don't happen to like the idea of the banks inserting themselves into every transaction.
They do even if you only accept cash.
> That doesn't make anyone a tax cheat or a luddite.
Wrong, you're at least one.
> There is no particular problem in any accounting system with recording various payment methods.
Yes, but its a lot easier if you dont fart around with cash.