Stamps
The Real Bev
trying to find out -- in chapter and verse -- is the legality of cutting unused
stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new envelopes. The intent, of course,
is to use the stamps on the return envelopes that the stupid charities insist on
enclosing in their begging letters. I went through this once before with our
postmaster, who determined that this was indeed legal and that the asshole in
the branch office owed me an apology, which I actually got.
The problem has arisen again, and I am absolutely dumbfounded that I can't find
the basic rules that a government agency must follow in its operations. I find
a lot of possibly useful consumer information, but NOTHING about the matter in hand.
I corresponded with the USPS 'help' facility, which was surprisingly speedy, but
ultimately hit a dead end when the best the person could come up with was that
I should steam off the old stamps and glue them on the new envelope and that I
couldn't tape them on (which has been true for a long time). (S)he could cite
no actual reference, so I figure his/her opinion is worth no more than mine.
WTF? I can see why people go postal.
Anybody have any ideas? References? This ought to be basic information
available to everyone, but NOOOOOOO!
--
Cheers, Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.
Dave Garland
> I've been googling for over an hour for the USA Postal Regulations.
> What I'm trying to find out -- in chapter and verse -- is the legality
> of cutting unused stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new
Another option is to let them pile up, then take the bundle to the
post office. They'll give you (IIRC) 90% of the face value, after you
fill out an inventory form. On the one hand, that's not 100% of the
value, but on the other hand, it's cash money.
N.B. this applies to the US. YMMV, TWIAVBP.
Dave
The Real Bev
I'll have to get the Big Postmaster's approval for that -- the local jerk says
you can't do that either.
--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared
not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I
ever said it." -- T. Lehrer
Lou
http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/1720.html. But unused stamps? I doubt it.
My guess is you're what you're looking for is a matter of law, not postal
service regulation, if it's even addressed at all.
"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rhf9l.15307$Ou7....@newsfe24.iad...
MSfo...@mcpmail.com
If it's truly an uncanceled stamp, you can cut it off and reglue it to
another envelope every day of the year. I have done it many times.
It's an unused stamp and you have this right. However, be careful
about cutting and gluing stamps that you are unsure of or just don't
look like they have been used because they can have a mark on them
that you don't see. In the old days you would see those wavy lines
across the stamp proving that it was used. It's different today. And
if it's a printed stamp on an envelope with the bar code on the
bottom, I think you may be violating the law in cutting and pasting
pieces.
James
recycling the envelope at the same time.
BTW which charities use postage stamps? I just toss junk mail but it
may be worth it to open for 42 cents specially if they're forever
stamps.
www.Queensbridge.us
I cover the original intended address with a very big blank label,
and write the new address on that.
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Dave Garland
> I'll have to get the Big Postmaster's approval for that -- the local
> jerk says you can't do that either.
Ask for Form 3533 "Application for Refund of Fees, Products and
Withdrawal of Customer Accounts". Or download the form from
http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps3533.pdf
Though personally, I just stick a label on the envelope over the one
that's printed on it, and use it to mail something. That not only
returns the value of the postage, but of the envelope too.
Dave
Rod Speed
> I've been googling for over an hour for the USA Postal Regulations. What I'm trying to find out -- in chapter and
> verse -- is the legality of cutting unused stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new envelopes.
Perfectly legal. What matters is whether its been used for mailing a letter or not.
> The intent, of course, is to use the stamps on the return envelopes that the stupid charities insist on enclosing in
> their begging letters.
Only the stupid donate to any charity thats stupid enough to do stuff like that.
> I went through this once before with our postmaster, who determined that this was indeed legal and that the asshole in
> the branch office owed me an apology, which I actually got.
You're meant to summarily execute the arsehole so no one else can get dudded, stupid.
> The problem has arisen again, and I am absolutely dumbfounded that I can't find the basic rules that a government
> agency must follow in its operations.
They need to be able to show you the regulation that says
that you cant move an unused stamp to a new envelope.
> I find a lot of possibly useful consumer information, but NOTHING about the matter in hand.
> I corresponded with the USPS 'help' facility, which was surprisingly
> speedy, but ultimately hit a dead end when the best the person could
> come up with was that I should steam off the old stamps and glue them on the new envelope and that I couldn't tape
> them on (which has been true for a long time).
Thats because the stamp wont stamp the stamp itself.
Nothing to stop you putting glue on the back of the stamp
and the remains of the old envelope you have cut it from.
> (S)he could cite no actual reference, so I figure his/her opinion is worth no more than mine.
You're wrong. It should be feasible to find where
it says that the stamp needs to be stampable.
> WTF? I can see why people go postal.
I doubt too many do that about something like this.
> Anybody have any ideas?
See above.
The other obvious approach is to put a label over the original address
on the envelope and reuse both the stamp and envelope, or if the
envelope is too small, stick the entire envelope to the new larger one.
> References? This ought to be basic information available to everyone,
It is, you're just looking for the wrong thing.
> but NOOOOOOO!
Fraid so.
hchi...@hotmail.com
Since the stamp is not canceled, it is an unused stamp with full face
value. The definition of it as a valid stamp has not changed based on
it being attached to anything. It doesn't matter what the stamp is
affixed to as long as it goes through the machinery.
The issue is that people will see a stamp that appears to be
uncanceled, but actually is, and attempt to use it. Any glued-on or
taped-on stamp is suspect. A clerk may refuse to honor a fraudulent
stamp or one that has been canceled, however it appears that neither
the post offfice manual nor the law address the issue of using a valid
stamp that has been affixed in error to an incorrect envelope.
Fraud via duplication
<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000501----000-.html>
The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been googling for over an hour for the USA Postal Regulations. What
>> I'm trying to find out -- in chapter and verse -- is the legality of
>> cutting unused stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new envelopes.
>> The intent, of course, is to use the stamps on the return envelopes that
>> the stupid charities insist on enclosing in their begging letters. I went
>> through this once before with our postmaster, who determined that this was
>> indeed legal and that the asshole in the branch office owed me an apology,
>> which I actually got.
>>
>> The problem has arisen again, and I am absolutely dumbfounded that I can't
>> find the basic rules that a government agency must follow in its
>> operations. I find a lot of possibly useful consumer information, but
>> NOTHING about the matter in hand.
>>
>> I corresponded with the USPS 'help' facility, which was surprisingly
>> speedy, but ultimately hit a dead end when the best the person could come
>> up with was that I should steam off the old stamps and glue them on the new
>> envelope and that I couldn't tape them on (which has been true for a long
>> time). (S)he could cite no actual reference, so I figure his/her opinion
>> is worth no more than mine.
>>
>> WTF? I can see why people go postal.
>
> As long as the stamps aren't postmarked, what's the problem?
In this case they had been postmarked -- FOR THE FIRST TIME ON THE LETTER TO
WHICH I ATTACHED THEM. And that's another gripe...
> I have done it
> before. Don't peal off the stamps though. Use a scissor and cut around the
> stamp leaving a border of about a quarter inch on each side. Then tape the
> stamps to your envelop, but don't cover the actual stamp in tape, just the
> border. Why? The postal service won't mail your letter if the stamp, itself
> is covered with tape; I think it impedes their machinery from reading the
> stamp.
>
> If you have any questions about this, just call your local post office and
> ask.
I went in and asked. (1) You have to steam them off the old envelope and glue
them to the new; and (2) once they've been put on an envelope you can't put them
on another envelope. What's wrong with this picture?
I need to talk to somebody who is actually human, but I want an exact reference
before I call.
--
Cheers, Bev
=====================================================
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." - A. S. LaVey
The Real Bev
The Paralyzed Veterans and one other. My mom called them to try to get them to
stop sending the letters, but it didn't help.
Tough luck, guys. The Man is wasting your money.
larry
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:28:09 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been googling for over an hour for the USA Postal Regulations. What I'm
>> trying to find out -- in chapter and verse -- is the legality of cutting unused
>> stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new envelopes. The intent, of course,
>> is to use the stamps on the return envelopes that the stupid charities insist on
>> enclosing in their begging letters. I went through this once before with our
>> postmaster, who determined that this was indeed legal and that the asshole in
>> the branch office owed me an apology, which I actually got.
The receipt I got the other day from the local post office
when I bought stamps has this printed at the bottom:
"All sales final on stamps and postage.
Refunds for guaranteed services only.
Thank you for your business."
When I was a kid, I sent stamps as money for mail order
stuff. Occasionally also saw "no stamps please".
Guess that went the way of green stamps ;-)
Mother sent a lot of express parcels at Christmas, and would
get her full money back on about a third of them. Her rural
PA post office didn't have a chance of getting parcels into
the main stream in two days. The post office helper would
try to deny the claim, but the postmaster- "give her her
money back, it's not her fault we didn't get it there in
time."
-- larry/dallas
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I'll have to get the Big Postmaster's approval for that -- the local
>> jerk says you can't do that either.
>
> Ask for Form 3533 "Application for Refund of Fees, Products and
> Withdrawal of Customer Accounts". Or download the form from
> http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps3533.pdf
I think that refers to advertising crap, but it's worth a shot. Thanks.
> Though personally, I just stick a label on the envelope over the one
> that's printed on it, and use it to mail something. That not only
> returns the value of the postage, but of the envelope too.
The bad part is that they usually use tiny envelopes. OTOH, I could stick the
whole envelope on another envelope -- I rarely send 5-page letters anyway.
I've already got a lot of cut-off stamps, though :-( Somebody paid the post
office for them and they damn well ought to provide the service that was paid for.
The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I've been googling for over an hour for the USA Postal Regulations. What I'm
>>trying to find out -- in chapter and verse -- is the legality of cutting unused
>>stamps off envelopes and gluing them onto new envelopes. The intent, of course,
>>is to use the stamps on the return envelopes that the stupid charities insist on
>>enclosing in their begging letters. I went through this once before with our
>>postmaster, who determined that this was indeed legal and that the asshole in
>>the branch office owed me an apology, which I actually got.
>>
>>The problem has arisen again, and I am absolutely dumbfounded that I can't find
>>the basic rules that a government agency must follow in its operations. I find
>>a lot of possibly useful consumer information, but NOTHING about the matter in hand.
>>
>>I corresponded with the USPS 'help' facility, which was surprisingly speedy, but
>> ultimately hit a dead end when the best the person could come up with was that
>>I should steam off the old stamps and glue them on the new envelope and that I
>>couldn't tape them on (which has been true for a long time). (S)he could cite
>>no actual reference, so I figure his/her opinion is worth no more than mine.
>>
>>WTF? I can see why people go postal.
>>
>>Anybody have any ideas? References? This ought to be basic information
>>available to everyone, but NOOOOOOO!
>
> Since the stamp is not canceled, it is an unused stamp with full face
> value. The definition of it as a valid stamp has not changed based on
> it being attached to anything. It doesn't matter what the stamp is
> affixed to as long as it goes through the machinery.
We agree. Unfortunately the cow-like branch supervisor doesn't. The
helpdroids advise me to contact my local post office. You might think that the
only reason for dealing with helpdroids at all is because the local branch was
what you were having the problem with.
> The issue is that people will see a stamp that appears to be
> uncanceled, but actually is, and attempt to use it. Any glued-on or
> taped-on stamp is suspect. A clerk may refuse to honor a fraudulent
> stamp or one that has been canceled, however it appears that neither
> the post offfice manual nor the law address the issue of using a valid
> stamp that has been affixed in error to an incorrect envelope.
I hunted through the manual below without finding anything useful. I guess the
post office is now run, as far as the "Customer" is concerned, by word of mouth.
In my exchange of correspondence with the USPS helpdroids, each of their emails
contained the phrase "Thank you for choosing the United States Postal Service®."
Every time I saw it I just wanted to slap somebody really hard. Most of the
time THERE IS NO CHOICE. How many businesses have been raided by the postal
inspectors and cited (arrested? tried? convicted?) for sending "first-class
mail" by Fedex or UPS?
> Postal Manual:
> <http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:TbFVWdyzTlwJ:www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/manuals/pom/pomc6.pdf+recycling+uncanceled+postage+stamps&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us&client=firefox-a>
>
> Fraud via duplication
> <http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000501----000-.html>
I (and everybody else) has spent far too much time on this problem. I'll just
have to phone the Big Kahoona and throw myself on his/her mercy.
--
Cheers,
Bev
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Only wimps use tape backup; *real* men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds
Dave Garland
> Dave Garland wrote:
>> Ask for Form 3533 "Application for Refund of Fees, Products and
> I think that refers to advertising crap, but it's worth a shot. Thanks.
When I worked for a place with a postage meter, that's how we got
refunds for screwed-up envelopes ("WHAT MORON LEFT THE METER SET TO
$9.99???"). But I've used it for stamped envelopes, too.
Not sure if they'll let you use it for stamps that have been cut off,
though, they may think you're trying to rip them off with stamps that
actually went through the mail but didn't get cancelled.
> I've already got a lot of cut-off stamps, though :-( Somebody paid the
> post office for them and they damn well ought to provide the service
> that was paid for.
I hear ya. And when I'm ruler of the universe, you can rest assured
that's how it will be ;->
Dave
Dave Garland
> The Paralyzed Veterans and one other. My mom called them to try to get
> them to stop sending the letters, but it didn't help.
I get them in a few, too. I read somewhere that there was a study
that showed that the number of contributions was higher when the
return envelopes had stamps on them. Direct mail is very much a
business where tiny details matter, even when the marketers don't know
why.
Dave
Evelyn Leeper
I get stamped envelopes from the National Yiddish Book Center and
Doctors Without Borders.
(I would really prefer that they didn't send them to me. Every January
we sit down and decide how much to give various charities, and we send
them the money with no reminders.)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.
Dee
news:SNx9l.2$1k...@newsfe14.iad:
> I went in and asked. (1) You have to steam them off the old
> envelope and glue them to the new; and (2) once they've been put
> on an envelope you can't put them on another envelope. What's
> wrong with this picture?
This may have already been suggested, but I cut the stamps off then use
a glue-stick to paste them onto the new envelope. Maybe it's a local
thing or maybe it's that there's no tell-tale tape showing around the
stamp, but the mail is accepted and sent with no problems.
Dee
The Real Bev
That was my mom's method, but she did it in November. Sometimes she phoned
people with 800 numbers and told them that if she got another begging letter
from them they'd never get another dime from her. She continued to send checks
anyway, but she grumbled about it.
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I went in and asked. (1) You have to steam them off the old
>> envelope and glue them to the new; and (2) once they've been put
>> on an envelope you can't put them on another envelope. What's
>> wrong with this picture?
>
> This may have already been suggested, but I cut the stamps off then use
> a glue-stick to paste them onto the new envelope. Maybe it's a local
> thing or maybe it's that there's no tell-tale tape showing around the
> stamp, but the mail is accepted and sent with no problems.
That's what I use too :-(
There should be NO "local thing". It's a creature of the federal government and
local offices should NOT be allowed to be stupid just because they are.
hchi...@hotmail.com
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>local offices should NOT be allowed to be stupid just because they are.
Uhhhhhhhhhhh......
OK, should there be a bow and arrow season for us to put them out of
their misery?
The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>local offices should NOT be allowed to be stupid just because they are.
>
> Uhhhhhhhhhhh......
>
> OK, should there be a bow and arrow season for us to put them out of
> their misery?
Gas. More efficient and certainly cheaper. All you need is some wet towels to
put under the doors and the federal government pays the gas bill. Yeah, it's
our money, but in this case I'm willing to sign the check.
--
Cheers,
Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves." -- Emo Philips