Stocking up for emergencies
CJ
likely to get rational answers in the consumer-oriented newsgroups. In
any event.... In case there is some major crisis, and power/water,
etc., are not available for some time, I am trying to stock up on a few
basic necessities. So, at this point, two main questions:
1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
(I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
Months? Years?
2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
suggestions?
Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape after that
much time, we're all screwed anyway....
CJ
D. Gerasimatos
CJ <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
>have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
>(I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
>leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
>sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
>Months? Years?
>
>2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
>that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
>with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
>sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
>suggestions?
Here is what the SF Chronicle recommends for earthquake preparedness:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/earthquakes/archive/ready.dtl
Dimitri
Anthony Matonak
...
> My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
> Months? Years?
They have expiration dates stamped on the bottles. They should be good
up to that date. Typically this is years. I've found that the bottles
don't have perfectly sealed caps though so, depending on where they are
stored, they might turn a little skunky within months. I'd recommend
rotating the stock every 6 months but that's just me.
> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
> suggestions?
You can buy small butane stoves for around $20. These are as close to
no-brainer emergency stoves as I've ever found. Propane camp stoves are
another alternative but are a little more complex.
Emergency food would be any food that will keep without refrigeration
or freezing. This means canned and dry food mostly. Only stock what you
eat because you'll need to replace the food periodically and the best
way to do that is to eat it and buy more.
You might try learning how to cook basics like rice and beans. With
the addition of a little seasoning and some misc other stuff you can
eat pretty well.
You should also stock some multi-vitamins in with your emergency
supplies. It's cheap insurance against a slightly unhealthy diet for
a short period of time. You might want to get vitamin C by itself as
fresh fruit might be hard to come by in a total disaster.
Anthony
Speedy Jim
> Maybe this belongs in some survivalist newsgroup, but I figure I'm more
> likely to get rational answers in the consumer-oriented newsgroups. In
> any event.... In case there is some major crisis, and power/water,
> etc., are not available for some time, I am trying to stock up on a few
> basic necessities. So, at this point, two main questions:
>
> 1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
> have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
<SNIP>
I wondered what to do for water storage, not just for
drinking, but washing and toilet flushing as well.
I was thinking in terms of a giant 50 Gal storage tank.
Instead I built some shelves in the garage against one wall.
All the way to the ceiling. Each time we are ready to
discard yet another 1 Gallon plastic jug, it gets
filled with tap water and goes on the shelf and not to
the dump/recycle.
If you're well-organized, you can even set up a FIFO
replenishment scheme. <g>
Jim
Rod Speed
No need for just 1-2 weeks.
> It's cheap insurance against a slightly unhealthy diet for a short period
> of time.
No big deal for just 1-2 weeks.
> You might want to get vitamin C by itself as fresh fruit might be hard to
> come by in a total disaster.
No big deal for just 1-2 weeks.
William Souden
>
> No big deal for just 1-2 weeks.
>
>
Which happens to be the interval in your welfare payments,
hchi...@hotmail.com
>Maybe this belongs in some survivalist newsgroup, but I figure I'm more
>likely to get rational answers in the consumer-oriented newsgroups. In
>any event.... In case there is some major crisis, and power/water,
>etc., are not available for some time, I am trying to stock up on a few
>basic necessities. So, at this point, two main questions:
>
>1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
>have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
>(I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
>leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
>sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
>Months? Years?
If you live in a condo, the better solution is to leave the area
before the distaster, or immediately after. Elevators might not work,
toilets may not flush, etc.. The first week after a disaster is a
PITA, and it is a great time for a vacation elsewhere.
If you still plan on staying;
As noted by another poster, there is an expiration date of bottled
water. Distilled water will last indefinitely, but the plastic in the
bottles won't. Leave the milk jug type containers of bottled water
around for a few months and you'll probably have at least one leaker
peeing on your shelves and floor. Transfer distilled water to 2 liter
polycarbonate soda bottles for longer bottle life.
>2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
>that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
>with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
>sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
>suggestions?
We keep a full pantry anyway. When Wilma took out the power for 11
days, we used a generator and batteries for power and kept the
refrigerator going. It was three weeks or more before we bothered to
go shopping.
You'll want comfort food, with some of that high-calorie food.
Chances are good that you'll be a lot more active during that period.
Canned sodas, whatever you normally eat, and some boxed/canned foods,
cookies, juices are some starters. If you plan on needing help, stock
up on beer for the helpers just before the disaster. If you rotate
the food in your pantry, just increase the amount you store.
>Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
>week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape after that
>much time, we're all screwed anyway....
Nah. We could go a couple of months if needed without skipping a
meal. If you shop for the best food prices, you build up a larder and
save money at the same time. Just remember that if you have a large
stock of food and let people know, "friends" will come out of the
woodwork after the disaster. Have some available for them -its only
neighborly, but keep some hidden away for yourself so you don't get
suckered into the same situation you are trying to avoid.
The item you'll miss most is hot water. A single burner propane camp
stove and a couple of small propane canisters are a safe way to heat a
meal and some hot water for a sponge bath.
>CJ
user
> Maybe this belongs in some survivalist newsgroup, but I figure I'm more
> likely to get rational answers in the consumer-oriented newsgroups. In
> any event.... In case there is some major crisis, and power/water,
> etc., are not available for some time, I am trying to stock up on a few
> basic necessities. So, at this point, two main questions:
>
> 1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
> have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
> (I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
> leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
> sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
> Months? Years?
At least. Just rotate it out and replace the ones you use in
daily life.
>
> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
> suggestions?
>
You can pick up a 12-meal case of MRE's on Ebay for about $60 or less.
If you get the "real", government-spec ones, they include flameless heaters,
as well. Each meal is something like 2500 calories or more, so they'll
be more than enough to keep you going. They'll include an entree,
seasonings, dessert, etc.
The advantage of MRE's is that they're rated for up to 10 years
when stored properly, and they're actually reasonably tasty, though
I wouldn't want to live on them. ;-) My family rotates them out
by using one or two every few months for hiking trips, etc.
- Rich
jjj_...@hotmail.com
Speedy Jim wrote:
> Each time we are ready to
> discard yet another 1 Gallon plastic jug, it gets
> filled with tap water and goes on the shelf and not to
> the dump/recycle.
>
> If you're well-organized, you can even set up a FIFO
> replenishment scheme. <g>
a couple to water potted plants, then refill them when done.
A propane barbecue (to heat water) and a camping shower (2 gallon bag
with nozzle) are also available.
Still need to practice draining my water heater though.
user
> CJ wrote:
> ...
>
>> My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
>> Months? Years?
>
>
> They have expiration dates stamped on the bottles. They should be good
> up to that date. Typically this is years. I've found that the bottles
> don't have perfectly sealed caps though so, depending on where they are
> stored, they might turn a little skunky within months. I'd recommend
> rotating the stock every 6 months but that's just me.
Seltzer water usually is cheaper than the bottled spring water, at least
in the single sizes. Frequently safeway puts their seltzer water on sale
at 6 twelve ounce cans for $.99. Th only thing that beats that is gallon
"milk" jugs, and the plastic in those does not seem as durable.
The can I just bought and finished has a 2007-01-29 date on the bottom,
but I'm betting the carbonic acid would keep this can safe to drink for
quite a few years beyond that.
Dottie
the summer. For those with generators - I have a question. Is it
worth while to buy one of the less expensive generators? One woman I
know bought one last year when there was a sales tax holiday and said
Lowes and Home Depot had them for about $250. They were just powerful
enough to run refrigerator and perhaps one or two lights. I would
really love to know that I could keep the refrigerator going. Someone
else I talked to said the small ones were too hard to start and not
very good. The person who has the small one hasn't had to use it
yet...we were lucky last year. Would love to hear from someone who has
actual experience with small ones. Thanks.
Don K
news:1140719177.9...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
> week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape after that
> much time, we're all screwed anyway....
There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
exposure until it blows over.
Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't have
to leave your house.
In such a situation, I wouldn't worry about being bored with what
I had to eat.
Don
mike wilcox
The mormons have reccomendations for just such scenario's. I don't know
if they have a web site or not, but one of the local members gave me a
photocopied hand out that had a whole range of options (eg. food &
water-family of four- per month)
Zuke
> In article <1140719177.9...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> CJ <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
>> have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
>> (I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
>> leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
>> sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
>> Months? Years?
>>
>> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
>> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
>> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
>> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
>> suggestions?
>
Don't forget to stock up your guns and ammo too because in a real
emergency you are going to need them.
Andy
Yep, in a real emergency you will probably be able to trade the gun for
a can of soup.
Andy
Andy
> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
> suggestions?
Go out and buy a little camping stove that runs on white gas, and then
stock up on things like pasta, bottled or canned marinara, mac and
cheese in a box, rice, canned chile. Whatever you like to eat that
doesn't require refrigeration. No point eating cold tuna, or other
foods you don't particularly like, for two weeks just because the
utilities went out.
Eggs will easily keep two weeks without refrigeration. Same with
margerine. Bread should keep. Cheese is fine for a couple weeks. Mayo
keeps for a long time without refrigeration (just be sure to only put a
clean spoon in it). No need to throw that stuff out just because the
refrigerator dies.
Andy
Lou
> likely to get rational answers in the consumer-oriented newsgroups. In
> any event.... In case there is some major crisis, and power/water,
> etc., are not available for some time, I am trying to stock up on a few
> basic necessities. So, at this point, two main questions:
>
> 1. I've purchased some bottled water. I live in a condo, so I don't
> have a large space, no special refrigerator or freezer to store it in.
> (I'm talking enough water here to last for a week or two!) I'm just
> leaving it in the containers, tucked away under a table, away from
> sunlight. My question is, how long does bottled water stay okay?
> Months? Years?
>
> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
> suggestions?
No heat or electricity? Are you in a climate where you won't freeze to
death if the disaster comes in the middle of winter? If you're not, then
maybe you need to consider a small kerosene heater and a few gallons of
fuel - provided, of course, you have a safe place to store the fuel.
I'd suggest getting something like cans of sterno so you can do some minor
cooking type stuff - you can eat cold beans out of a can, but you'd probably
prefer to eat them hot.
As to what to get, I'd suggest canned food, and mostly basic stuff in small
cans - one or two servings (no refrigeration after all). Beans, spam, tuna,
stuff like canned ravioli, canned vegetables, canned fruit. Dry cereal,
powdered milk. Coffee or tea. Something along the lines of Bisquick. At
least some kinds of margarine keep a long time without refrigeration. Bread
doesn't keep real well, but crackers do. So do many kinds of cheese.
Cooking oil. Sugar and salt. Real honey keeps just about forever.
Candles, or some kind of oil lamp, and lamp fuel. Matches or cigarette
lighters. Dried fruit, like prunes, raisons or apricots. Fresh eggs ought
to last a couple of weeks even without refrigeration. Potatoes and other
root vegetables keep well, but many need to be cooked. For a treat,
chocolate bars or hard candy. Don't forget, what goes in must also go out -
toilet paper and whatever additional hygene products you may require. A
couple of hefty books that you've always been meaning to read but never
quite got around to. A bottle of aspirin. Soap. Disinfectant, band-aids.
If your tastes run that way, some beer, wine, or more potent stuff. Tobacco
if you indulge. Radio and batteries to run it. Ditto flashlight. If you
take prescription meds, be sure to have enough on hand to get you through.
Oh yeah, and money.
Think of taking a week long camping trip, out in the woods somewhere, no
recourse to a store. What would you need, what would you want? Maybe none
of this stuff is on your list of favorites, but there's nothing like being
hungry to make things taste great. If you're lucky enough to have a little
warning, fill the bathtubs, sinks, and all the pots and pans you have with
water from the tap - you can use it to drink, cook, sponge bath, and flush
the toilet.
mike wilcox
hchi...@hotmail.com
>Someone
>else I talked to said the small ones were too hard to start and not
>very good.
Hard to start usually means bad gas. Make sure the gas is fresh, and
keep a spray can of starting fluid (ether) or choke cleaner on hand.
The 5KW generators allow you to run a room AC, and if you are adept
enough, hot wire the heating element in a water heater. I would avoid
2 cycle generators on principle. It is also wise to figure that your
generator may crap out, and have a backup for your backup.
Gary Heston
>2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
>that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
>with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
>sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
>suggestions?
Any of the heat-and-serve canned soups or stews are excellent for this
situation--you don't have to heat them, that just improves the flavor.
Cheese that is sealed in wax will keep a longer time than otherwise.
Gary
--
Gary Heston ghe...@hiwaay.net I don't need an iPod, I have an IQ.
A worthwhile endeavour:
http://www.thebrestcancersite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/CTDSites
Gary Heston
>> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
>> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
>> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
>> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
>> suggestions?
>Go out and buy a little camping stove that runs on white gas, and then
>stock up on things like pasta, bottled or canned marinara, mac and
>cheese in a box, rice, canned chile. Whatever you like to eat that
>doesn't require refrigeration. No point eating cold tuna, or other
>foods you don't particularly like, for two weeks just because the
>utilities went out.
Make sure the mac-n-cheese you select doesn't require milk.
>Eggs will easily keep two weeks without refrigeration. Same with
>margerine. Bread should keep. Cheese is fine for a couple weeks. Mayo
>keeps for a long time without refrigeration (just be sure to only put a
>clean spoon in it). No need to throw that stuff out just because the
>refrigerator dies.
Preparing a menu in advance would be a good idea. That way, you can ensure
variety and not end up looking at a pile of stuff and saying "what do I
fix now?".
Gary Heston
Add up your necessary loads--refrigerator, freezer, microwave, a few
lights, small radio--and get a generator rated at least 25% higher than
the total of those loads. 50% higher would be better.
Like anything else, if you load a generator near its' limit, it's not
going to last long.
Be sure to plan for fuel storage.
Rod Speed
> Dottie <Dorot...@aol.com> wrote
>> I live in hurricane prone area and have to keep emergency stock
>> during the summer. For those with generators - I have a question.
>> Is it worth while to buy one of the less expensive generators? One
>> woman I know bought one last year when there was a sales tax holiday
>> and said Lowes and Home Depot had them for about $250. They were
>> just powerful enough to run refrigerator and perhaps one or two
>> lights. I would really love to know that I could keep the
>> refrigerator going. Someone else I talked to said the small ones
>> were too hard to start and not very good. The person who has the
>> small one hasn't had to use it yet...we were lucky last year. Would
>> love to hear from someone who has actual experience with small ones.
> Add up your necessary loads--refrigerator, freezer, microwave,
> a few lights, small radio--and get a generator rated at least 25%
> higher than the total of those loads. 50% higher would be better.
You dont necessarily need to run them all at once. No problem
with leaving the fridge and the freezer to idle while you are cooking.
And it makes more sense to cook with gas than a microwave in that
situation.
And the radio is irrelevant power use wise.
> Like anything else, if you load a generator
> near its' limit, it's not going to last long.
Oh bullshit.
D. Gerasimatos
Probably not, but you can probably trade bullets for all kinds of things.
Dimitri
cj...@yahoo.com
Don K wrote:
> There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
> that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
> a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
> exposure until it blows over.
>
> Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
> such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
> but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't have
> to leave your house.
I don't know. Would you go to work at your job in the power station or
the water treatment plant in the case of a bird flu pandemic? I
suppose it depends on the fatality percentage...
--
C
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
<1140747736.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
inevereverche...@yahoo.com says...
You mean like a real emergency that involves looters and rioters
approaching to clean out and destroy your home and business? And
maybe beat/rape/kill you as punishment for daring to have more
resources than them?
Witnessing (IN PERSON, *not* on teevee) portions of the 1992
Rodney King riots in Los Angeles, was a permanent attitude
adjustment for me.
--
Want Freebies?
http://www.TheFreeStuffList.com/
Check The Free Stuff List
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
<1140764300....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
cj...@yahoo.com says...
I dunno, either... I suppose it depends on if *I* am likely to be
*in* that fatality percentage. As opposed to a bunch of morons
who just couldn't be bothered with having a few torches and
bottles of water on hand.
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
ghe...@hiwaay.net says...
> In article <1140748147.9...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> Andy <inevereverche...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >CJ wrote:
>
> >> 2. What would folks recommend as the best kind of food to stock up on
> >> that could keep a man adequately nourished for a couple of weeks, again
> >> with no heat or electricity available? Canned tuna? (I think I'd get
> >> sick of that pretty quickly.) Some kind of cereal? Trail mix? Other
> >> suggestions?
>
> >Go out and buy a little camping stove that runs on white gas, and then
> >stock up on things like pasta, bottled or canned marinara, mac and
> >cheese in a box, rice, canned chile. Whatever you like to eat that
> >doesn't require refrigeration. No point eating cold tuna, or other
> >foods you don't particularly like, for two weeks just because the
> >utilities went out.
> Make sure the mac-n-cheese you select doesn't require milk.
NO mac-cheese really requires milk. It may mention milk on the
instructions on the side of the box, but that is really just a
recommendation. When I was young, I ate literally hundreds of
boxes of mac-cheese while violating the milk specification.
If you are really picky, try adding some powdered milk.
Or, on a frugal note, buy regular pasta in bulk, plus grated
cheese and powdered milk.
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
<1140737113.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
Dorot...@aol.com says...
> I live in hurricane prone area and have to keep emergency stock during
> the summer. For those with generators - I have a question. Is it
> worth while to buy one of the less expensive generators? One woman I
> know bought one last year when there was a sales tax holiday and said
> Lowes and Home Depot had them for about $250. They were just powerful
> enough to run refrigerator and perhaps one or two lights. I would
> really love to know that I could keep the refrigerator going. Someone
> else I talked to said the small ones were too hard to start and not
> very good. The person who has the small one hasn't had to use it
> yet...we were lucky last year.
That is a big issue right there. Do NOT wait until an emergency
before you use these things. Test it out right now. Do a
rehearsal. Then you can find and fix problems before you are in
a crisis. That includes all disaster/emergency preps, like a
small gas stove, and so forth.
Also understand that, in an emergency, you may have to
compromise, and might not be as comfortable or confident. And
you may have to prioritise. If you have a limited supply of
petrol, then you may have to choose between lights vs fridge.
max
Antipodean Bucket Farmer <usene...@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
> > I don't know. Would you go to work at your job in the power station or
> > the water treatment plant in the case of a bird flu pandemic? I
> > suppose it depends on the fatality percentage...
>
>
> I dunno, either... I suppose it depends on if *I* am likely to be
> *in* that fatality percentage
There are certain jobs in society -- utilities, police, fire, medical,
energy, and rail/truck transport that are actually important. You take a
job like that, you should be ready to do it no matter what, period.
Good rule of thumb: will looking out for number 1 cause someone else to die?
If yes, then don't.
Just my deeply considered superior opinion.
.max
Rod Speed
Plenty did the last time it happened.
> I suppose it depends on the fatality percentage...
Its much more complicated than that.
And there is nothing to stop the monkeys running those plants
from just holing up there till the death rate drops anyway.
Rod Speed
> In article <MPG.1e6852c86...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> Antipodean Bucket Farmer <usene...@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>
>>> I don't know. Would you go to work at your job in the power
>>> station or the water treatment plant in the case of a bird flu
>>> pandemic? I suppose it depends on the fatality percentage...
>>
>>
>> I dunno, either... I suppose it depends on if *I* am likely to be
>> *in* that fatality percentage
>
>
> There are certain jobs in society -- utilities, police, fire, medical,
> energy, and rail/truck transport that are actually important. You
> take a job like that, you should be ready to do it no matter what,
> period.
Never works like that in the real world.
> Good rule of thumb:
Nope.
> will looking out for number 1 cause
> someone else to die? If yes, then don't.
> Just my deeply considered superior opinion.
Pity it aint how the real world actually works.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"Andy" <inevereverche...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1140748147.9...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
when i worked in food service, i was told that mayo would keep at room
temp as long as you didn't refrigerate it first. if you refrigerate it, it
must
be kept refrigerated.
madhatter®
Don't forget a non-electric CAN OPENER for all those cans just in
case.
madhatter®
wrote:
>In article <1140737113.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
>Dottie <Dorot...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I live in hurricane prone area and have to keep emergency stock during
>>the summer. For those with generators - I have a question. Is it
>>worth while to buy one of the less expensive generators? One woman I
>>know bought one last year when there was a sales tax holiday and said
>>Lowes and Home Depot had them for about $250. They were just powerful
>>enough to run refrigerator and perhaps one or two lights. I would
>>really love to know that I could keep the refrigerator going. Someone
>>else I talked to said the small ones were too hard to start and not
>>very good. The person who has the small one hasn't had to use it
>>yet...we were lucky last year. Would love to hear from someone who has
>>actual experience with small ones. Thanks.
>
>Add up your necessary loads--refrigerator, freezer, microwave, a few
>lights, small radio--and get a generator rated at least 25% higher than
>the total of those loads. 50% higher would be better.
>
>Like anything else, if you load a generator near its' limit, it's not
>going to last long.
>
Gary, why is that? What good is the limit then?
Also, based on your suggestion (tho I might quibble with some details
but lets assume you're right), since most of these items are generally
pulling the same load in most homes (unless you have more than one
refrig, etc..) then what would you recommend for the size of generator
for the average home user (for emergency use only)? Of course the
suggestion about smaller generators being hard to start is worth
looking into. What size is consider small tho?
William Souden
>
> Its much more complicated than that.
>
> And there is nothing to stop the monkeys running those plants
> from just holing up there till the death rate drops anyway.
>
>
Welfare boy detests those who work.
The Real Bev
> Speedy Jim wrote:
>> Each time we are ready to
>> discard yet another 1 Gallon plastic jug, it gets
>> filled with tap water and goes on the shelf and not to
>> the dump/recycle.
>>
>> If you're well-organized, you can even set up a FIFO
>> replenishment scheme. <g>
> I've done this, ten 1 gallon numbered jugs of water. Every week I use
> a couple to water potted plants, then refill them when done.
Assuming no plants to water or difficulty in carrying gallon jugs, what about
putting a teaspoon of bleach into each bottle? Or half a teaspoon?
> A propane barbecue (to heat water) and a camping shower (2 gallon bag
> with nozzle) are also available.
> Still need to practice draining my water heater though.
--
Cheers,
Bev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subscribe today to "Fire in the Hole - the Quarterly Journal
for Incinerator Toilet Enthusiasts" -- Andrew
John Smith
"Dottie" <Dorot...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140737113.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Someone
> else I talked to said the small ones were too hard to start and not
> very good. The person who has the small one hasn't had to use it
> yet...
You addressed the problem, and the solution in the same paragraph.
Ever try to start a lawn mower / snowblower that hasn't been run in years
and just "put away" in the shed? Very hard compared to one that's always
running, or properly maintained.
You're supposed to run up your genset once every month or so. Up to full
operating temperature. Good for the engine, (and the generator?). If you
know there's a storm coming, dig it out and fire it up beforehand, so you
know it will work if you need it.
Store it with fresh gas with stabil or the like added to the tank, and
always use fresh gas (I try to rotate my lawnmower / snowblower stock, and
dump the gas in the car every month or so.)
Once I learned from my mistake with old gas in my snowblower, and I started
adding stabil to the blower and the mower at the end of the season, they
always start first pull the next season. These cheap gensets will have
similar engines, and are likely as easy to start if treated properly.
Dottie
water for washing dishes. If we were in an emergency situation, we
would skip the showers.
Just want to be sure the refrigerator will be hooked up and perhaps
some floor fans....to help circulate the air.
We've got battery powered lights and small TV. But we learned we could
get by on very little two years back. The houses across the street
still had power and we were able to run extension cords over here for
refrigerators. Sure was a blessing. We weren't in the path, but got
mostly power outages.
John A. Weeks III
"Dottie" <Dorot...@aol.com> wrote:
> We've got battery powered lights and small TV. But we learned we could
> get by on very little two years back. The houses across the street
> still had power and we were able to run extension cords over here for
> refrigerators. Sure was a blessing. We weren't in the path, but got
> mostly power outages.
You are lucky to have such good neighbors. It was nice of them
to share what they had (in this case, sharing power).
A few years ago, a very strong but geographically very small
storm ripped through the south metro area of Minneapolis. Most
people in the cities were totally unaffected, other than some
trees and limbs down. But for those people who were directly
in the path, many had to wait up to two weeks to get power
back. I could not imagine living for 2 weeks without power,
not in the summer at least. I'd have to check into a motel
just to get air conditioning.
What this made me realize that if people in the 15th largest
city in the US can go without power for 2 weeks, then if we
turely had something major happen, we would be totally screwed.
We would be on our own for at least a few weeks. Just like
what happened in the hurricane areas this past two years.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZoKLf.275$pL2...@fe07.lga...
> jjj_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Speedy Jim wrote:
>>> Each time we are ready to
>>> discard yet another 1 Gallon plastic jug, it gets
>>> filled with tap water and goes on the shelf and not to
>>> the dump/recycle.
>>>
>>> If you're well-organized, you can even set up a FIFO
>>> replenishment scheme. <g>
>> I've done this, ten 1 gallon numbered jugs of water. Every week I use
>> a couple to water potted plants, then refill them when done.
>
> Assuming no plants to water or difficulty in carrying gallon jugs, what
> about putting a teaspoon of bleach into each bottle? Or half a teaspoon?
way too much.
http://www.doh.wa.gov/phepr/handbook/purify.htm
Dottie
be run at once on x size generator? Do I need to know how many watts
the refrigerator uses or is it something else ... volts? And each fan?
I suppose I should know this, but I don't. I am saving these answers
in a Word file so I will know what to do when I need it later. Thanks.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
Generac Generators
http://www.generac-portables.com/generators/index.cfm
Steps to select a generator:
1. Determine use
Use Preferred Features
Recreational Portable, Compact, Quiet for basic camping power. Minimal
electrical 5500 / 4000EXL needs.
Home / Emergency Reliable, Quiet, Enough power to run essential items, Long
run time on a 5500 / 4000EXL tank of gasoline. In general, service life is
not an issue.
7000EXL
Contractor Commercial Quality Engine, Reliable, Long Running, Pro Features
to 4000EXL /7000EXL handle the tough demands on the jobsite.
2. See selling features sheets usually found in store with the generators.
3. Determine the needed wattage and surge watts using the wattage worksheet
(found in store
with the generators). If you need to estimate the surge wattage of an item,
use rated
wattage x 2. If wattage/surge wattage needs come close to the max rated for
the generator, it is
strongly suggested that you get the next size up, especially if you've had
to estimate.
4. Make sure you have the proper type outlets for what you want to run.
120/240V-30A outlet
is needed to use an electric stove or dryer.
5. If you want to run electronic equipment, the 4000 and the 7000 both have
auto voltage
regulation. The 5500 does not.
6. Hardwired items (central htg/ac, hot water heater, furnace fan, and well
pump are examples)
cannot be run from a generator unless they have a power transfer system
installed (available at
www.generac-portables.com). If it doesn't have a plug, it's hardwired.
7. See the specifications sheet for side-by-side comparisons.
8. Understand the causes of hydro lock (too much oil); won't need to use the
full quart of oil that
comes with the generator. Keep extension cords to a max of 100ft and make
sure the gauge is
heavy enough.
9. Recommend the appropriate Power Transfer System to the home back-up user:
a. reliability: heavy duty components; permanently mounted to your home by
your electrician
b. convenience: no need for multiple extension cords; faster power
restoration; load manager
and meters inside home to easily transfer power to where you want it.
c. added safety: double insulation; prevents dangerous backfeed to utility
lines; all-weather
inlet box keeps connections dry.
10. Finally, make sure you have the basics:
a. Heavy Duty "Contractor Grade" outdoor extension cords; strips; converters
b. Gas can and gas
c. Engine oil
d. Flashlight and batteries
e. Fuel stabilizer - to keep gas fresh
f. Chain & lock to secure generator
Don K
You add up the average Watts needed and also check that the
surge current (or peak Watts) is within the peak rating of
the generator.
When certain things like refrigerators first turn on they
draw a large surge of current.
Also you can't just plug the generator into a house outlet.
It must be isolated from the regular power mains. You either
have to plug everything to the generator on a separate line
or you need to install a power-switching device.
Here's some simple stuff that might help explain what you
need to know.
http://www.sdge.com/forms/portablegenerators.pdf
This paper illustrates graphically how the current of a
refrigerator varies over time.
http://www.onsetcomp.com/Newsletters/4883_homepower76.pdf
Don
Rod Speed
> Would someone please tell me how to calculate how many
> appliances could be run at once on x size generator?
That is surprisingly difficult.
> Do I need to know how many watts the refrigerator uses
No, the main problem is the startup current that devices like
that take and that isnt even mentioned on the compliance plate.
> or is it something else ... volts?
Nope, that bit is easy.
> And each fan?
Again, the main problem is the startup current and that
isnt easy to determine and it makes a difference if you
are happy to turn them on one by one once the generator
is running or if you want to be able to just throw the switch
and have everything all start up at once. You need a rather
bigger generator if you want to be able to use it like that.
> I suppose I should know this, but I don't. I am saving these answers
> in a Word file so I will know what to do when I need it later.
Unfortunately there is no nice tidy answer.
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
user wrote:
> Seltzer water usually is cheaper than the bottled spring water, at least
> in the single sizes. Frequently safeway puts their seltzer water on sale
> at 6 twelve ounce cans for $.99. Th only thing that beats that is gallon
> "milk" jugs, and the plastic in those does not seem as durable.
>
The water goes on sale a lot. I just got a 24 pack of 16.9 oz bottles
for $3.99. Same price as the seltzer you mentioned, but larger bottles.
And they go on sale frequently.
I like to freeze my water, so I usually stick a case of the water on
the bottom shelf and pull them out as needed. If teh weather is stormy,
I make sure it is full. If the power goes out for a day or so, my ice
will keep stuff cold enough.
Gary Heston
Search engines are useful for this; entering "generator sizing" will
return links like this:
http://www.gillettegenerators.com/sizing/sizing02.html
It lists about two dozen appliances.
With generators, it won't hurt to have a extra 1000W of capacity.
v
>Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
>week or two supply.,,,
>
Hmm, I probably have a week's worth just any thime at randome anyway.
Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.
Rod Speed
> someone wrote
>> Commends and suggestions are appreciated.
>> FYI, I'm only aiming for a week or two supply.,,,
> Hmm, I probably have a week's worth just any thime at randome anyway.
I've always got at least a month or more, just because I prefer
to do the major food shopping run every couple of months just
because its too boring to bother with more often.
Power is never ever out for even a full day here, so I dont
even need to bother with power for the freezers etc. They
idle fine thru what power outages we do get.
And when I do run out of something, its no
big deal to use something else instead.
The beer supply shows in the database as due to run out in Mar-07,
mainly because I prefer to let it age properly before drinking it.
Bill
electricity to go out for a couple of days.
And we quickly see who is prepared for this and who is not.
Some people have no heating and can't cook. Others have heating and can
cook.
Simple as that!
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
bill19...@yahoo.com says...
Actually, it is a bit more complicated. While you notice the
non-prepared folks, they will also be noticing you and the other
prepared ones. And that creates the high risk of then viewing
you as some kind of public welfare agency. They will be envious,
and will fantasise that you have more than you need/want/deserve.
So they will think you are obligated to "share."
Lots of people do this in non-emergencies.
Always be very discreet about having any more resources than your
neighbours or acquaintances.
John Savage
>I live in hurricane prone area and have to keep emergency stock during
>the summer. For those with generators - I have a question. Is it
>worth while to buy one of the less expensive generators?
Don't overlook the need for a secure place to safely store an adequate
amount of fuel if you are looking at many days of self-sufficiency.
There might be insurance implications in storing large quantities of
fuel near a residence.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)
George Grapman
radio and other people.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
George Grapman
Flashlights that plug into an outlet and go on as soon as there is no
power.
Mike M.
"John Savage" <rook...@suburbian.com.au> wrote in message
news:060303000043659.03Mar06$rook...@suburbian.com...
Also not a good idea to store fuel next to a generator - or add fuel to its
tank - while it is running.
My neighbor's son managed to catch their generator on fire by adding
gasoline to the tank while is was still running - and had foolishly lined up
several 1-gal. containers next to the (now fully engulfed in flames)
generator. Hysteria broke out as family members scrambled to remove the
fuel and quickly put out the fire, but the damage was already done.
Glad no one was hurt, and damage was limited to the generator only. But I'd
be less than honest if I didn't admit that I was more concerned that the
fools could have easily set my own home ablaze if they hadn't reacted as
quickly as they did. (What if Junior was home alone when the fire broke
out, and was unable to put it out before things got out of hand?)
People do foolish things, and often times they are not the only ones stuck
paying the tab for such shenanigans. Actually, surprised there weren't more
generator accidents - though the term "acts of negligence/foolishness" seems
more accurate - than there were during the last hurricane season that
severely affected our area.
Generators are great for emergencies, but I wish more people world first
read the directions before firing them up (pardon the pun)...
Mike
Rod Speed
> Flashlights that plug into an outlet and go on as soon as there is no
> power.
Best if they only come on when there is no power and no light tho.
Easy to waste the charge if the power goes out early in the day etc.
nina
Don K wrote:
> "CJ" <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1140719177.9...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > much time, we're all screwed anyway....
>
> There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
> that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
> a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
> exposure until it blows over.
>
> Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
> such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
> but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't have
> to leave your house.
>
> In such a situation, I wouldn't worry about being bored with what
> I had to eat.
>
> Don
The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke down
yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety in food.
m...@privacy.net
>Best if they only come on when there is no power and no light tho.
Here are some good ones in link below
Made by Streamlight
CanopyCo
I have looked into.
As to food for storage for emergencies, look at canned and boxed foods
that you have already fed the kids.
That way you will know if they will eat it or not.
Just use the "Best by" date to tell when things should get replaced.
Not that it is not eatable after that date, just that it is a simple
way to keep track.
Also, as to things that require milk, get powdered milk and keep it on
a shelf.
It lasts a long time.
As to Mayonnaise, get a jar of sailed dressing.
It does not require refrigeration, Mayo does.
And get the squeeze bottles so that you do not contaminate it with a
dirty spoon.
Some mac and cheese has the cheese in a squeeze pouch.
That is easiest, but the cheep stuff is plenty good with powdered milk
and margarine instead of fresh milk and butter.
There are some canned meats out there, but most are not all that good
if eaten alone.
You can mix it with chicken or hamburger helper and make pretty eatable
food.
Also, hamburger helper can be used with any type of meat.
Not just hamburger.
So canned ham or canned chicken will work just fine.
Also look into peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
I forget if jelly or jam is the one that does not require
refrigeration.
Bread is going to be a problem, considering that most like fresh bread.
You can store bread in the freezer if you want, or learn to bake it.
A bread maker is great for that.
That is a start.
Steve
>The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
>same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke down
>yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety in food.
Not me, I've been known to eat the same stuff every day for years at a
time. Then I'll switch to different stuff every day for a few more
years....
--
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.
...James Cabell
jes
I live in earthquake country, and we're advised to keep supplies on
hand.
When you get your groceries, canned goods or instant soups home: w/an
indelible marker, write the month and year on the top of each product.
Then store the new products at the back of the pantry/shelf. As you
consume products, take the oldest from the front. That way you'll
constantly rotate, and not be stuck with a 5 yr. old can of soup to
consume in an emergency!
There's 40-50 gal. of water in the water heater. If there's a problem
of contamination, shut off the intake valve.
If you know there's a problem on the way, fill up the bathtub. You can
always dip that water out for flushing a toilet. (We also had 6 years
of drought and the motto was "If it's yellow, let it mellow.")
A few drops of household bleach is effective to kill bacteria.
Make out an emergency supply list; then put the items and the list
together in one box and everyone in the household should know the
location of the box!
Pick one day of the year to check the contents and freshness of
batteries. New Year's Day, X's birthday -- whatever -- just as long as
it's consistent. During the year did someone filch a candle? Book of
matches?
A battery operated radio or, even better, handcrank dynamo radio.
I don't store batteries in a flashlight or radio. I've had them leak
and corrode.
Pau...@yahoo.com
critical medications that you or anyone in your family takes. Also,
don't forget to always have food on hand for your pets.
Bob Ward
You'd be surprised how an empty belly cures a lackluster appetite. In
such an event, the goal is survival, not a gourmet dining experience.
See http://www.lacetoleather.com/hom.html for an example of a
household survival kit inventory.
Bob Ward
If you've got a fereezer to keep fresh bread on hand, you might as
well allow for keeping mayo in the fridge next to it - but when it
comes to down-and-dirty survival, anyone who insists on fresh bread
and mayo (and having the crusts cut off the sandwich) isn't hungry
enough. Let him skip a meal or two, living off the fat of the land.
Gary Heston
CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>Bread is going to be a problem, considering that most like fresh bread.
>You can store bread in the freezer if you want, or learn to bake it.
>A bread maker is great for that.
There are hand-cranked breadmakers?
A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a freezer
or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea. If you have
power for a breadmaker, you'll have it for refrigeration.
Laying in a supply of crackers would be a good idea. As long as the
inner bag isn't opened, they'll keep for a long time.
KLS
>"nina" <nina...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
>>same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke down
>>yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety in food.
>
>Not me, I've been known to eat the same stuff every day for years at a
>time. Then I'll switch to different stuff every day for a few more
>years....
You sound like me, especially for leftovers.
George Grapman
ATMs were done and that that worked were very slow. Same with credit
card terminals at stores.
As it happened I was at the World Series. I had taken extra money in
case ticket were on sale so I could by them and leave them at will call
fir friends. There were none available but the extra money came in
handy. I remember seeing long, slow lines at ATMs the next day.
hchi...@hotmail.com
>In article <1141405339....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>>Bread is going to be a problem, considering that most like fresh bread.
>>You can store bread in the freezer if you want, or learn to bake it.
>>A bread maker is great for that.
>
>There are hand-cranked breadmakers?
>
>A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a freezer
>or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea. If you have
>power for a breadmaker, you'll have it for refrigeration.
>
>Laying in a supply of crackers would be a good idea. As long as the
>inner bag isn't opened, they'll keep for a long time.
>
>
>Gary
I was surprised to find that breadmakers use only a very small amount
of power to make bread. I plugged ours into a KAW, and was amazed at
the readings, not much more than the power needed for a few slices of
toast. If we lose power after another hurricane we will probably make
bread with the breadmaker running on the genny or battery power.
The Real Bev
> Don K wrote:
>> "CJ" <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
>> > week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape after that
>> > much time, we're all screwed anyway....
>>
>> There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
>> that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
>> a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
>> exposure until it blows over.
>>
>> Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
>> such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
>> but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't have
>> to leave your house.
>>
>> In such a situation, I wouldn't worry about being bored with what
>> I had to eat.
>>
> The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
> same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke down
> yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety in food.
Nobody is going to starve to death in 4 weeks. If you get hungry you'll eat
boring food. If you're hungry enough you'll even eat disgusting food. I
don't want to think about what comes after that...
--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala,
it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet." -- Anon.
hchi...@hotmail.com
>nina wrote:
>
>> Don K wrote:
>>> "CJ" <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
>>> > week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape after that
>>> > much time, we're all screwed anyway....
>>>
>>> There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
>>> that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
>>> a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
>>> exposure until it blows over.
>>>
>>> Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
>>> such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
>>> but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't have
>>> to leave your house.
>>>
>>> In such a situation, I wouldn't worry about being bored with what
>>> I had to eat.
>>>
>> The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
>> same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke down
>> yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety in food.
>
>Nobody is going to starve to death in 4 weeks. If you get hungry you'll eat
>boring food. If you're hungry enough you'll even eat disgusting food. I
>don't want to think about what comes after that...
Small lawyers?
The Real Bev
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>>Bread is going to be a problem, considering that most like fresh bread.
>>You can store bread in the freezer if you want, or learn to bake it.
>>A bread maker is great for that.
>
> There are hand-cranked breadmakers?
My grandma called that a "breadboard". You can still get them. They don't
bake it, though.
> A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a freezer
> or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea. If you have
> power for a breadmaker, you'll have it for refrigeration.
>
> Laying in a supply of crackers would be a good idea. As long as the
> inner bag isn't opened, they'll keep for a long time.
Crackers are good. Even Twinkies will provide needed calories in a pinch, and
there is no known method of destruction short of digestion that will hurt them.
The Real Bev
Bob Ward
Are you kidding? We'd have to spend the rest of the week sitting
around licking our balls just to get the taste out of our mouths.
Rod Speed
>
>> Don K wrote:
>>> "CJ" <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming
>>>> for a week or two supply. I figure if things aren't back in shape
>>>> after that much time, we're all screwed anyway....
>>>
>>> There was some discussion on Meet the Press about bird flu, and
>>> that if there ever was a pandemic outbreak in your area, it would be
>>> a good idea to be able to just stay home for 3 or 4 weeks and avoid
>>> exposure until it blows over.
>>>
>>> Presumably in that situation, there may still be services operating
>>> such as water, power, etc. and many things may still be functioning,
>>> but you would be better off if you had enough supplies and didn't
>>> have to leave your house.
>>>
>>> In such a situation, I wouldn't worry about being bored with what
>>> I had to eat.
>>>
>> The problem is that people, especially children, when bored with the
>> same food begin to find it so unappetizing that they cannot choke
>> down yet another bite of it. You do need a certain amount of variety
>> in food.
>
> Nobody is going to starve to death in 4 weeks. If you get hungry
> you'll eat boring food. If you're hungry enough you'll even eat
> disgusting food. I don't want to think about what comes after that...
They start eating each other, silly.
CanopyCo
Bob Ward wrote:
>
>
> If you've got a fereezer to keep fresh bread on hand, you might as
> well allow for keeping mayo in the fridge next to it - but when it
> comes to down-and-dirty survival, anyone who insists on fresh bread
> and mayo (and having the crusts cut off the sandwich) isn't hungry
> enough. Let him skip a meal or two, living off the fat of the land.
The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
And a generator ran once a day will keep the freezer up, but will do
nothing for the refrigerator.
Also, there will likely be no loss of electricity during a bird flue
pandemic, but you still will not want to run to the store and get bread
baked by sick cooks.
Also, there is no need for the fridge at all if electricity is lost due
to an ice storm.
And this is all for use before you get so low as down and dirty
survival.
No reason to drop back to the stone age before it is forced on us.
And one solution will not work for every problem, thus the reason for
stocking for both loss of electricity as well as just a loss of ability
to go to town.
CanopyCo
Gary Heston wrote:
>
> There are hand-cranked breadmakers?
No, but there are gas powered generators.
Not to mention that just because you cannot or should not go to town is
no indication that the power will be off.
>
> A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a freezer
> or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea.
You will still need a way to cook it.
Maybe something like a bread maker, powered by a generator that is also
keeping your freezer up to speed?
Ran once a day to maintain several different things.
>If you have
> power for a breadmaker, you'll have it for refrigeration.
But you still may not want to go to town threw the ice storm or the
bird flue pandemic.
>
> Laying in a supply of crackers would be a good idea. As long as the
> inner bag isn't opened, they'll keep for a long time.
>
That is not a bad idea either.
Depends on what a person wants to eat during the bad times.
Keeping your diet pleasant will help with stress during a disaster.
Disasters are depressing.
So is eating shitty food.
Who needs double depressing?
Bob Ward
>The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
>The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
>And a generator ran once a day will keep the freezer up, but will do
>nothing for the refrigerator.
Have you checked your figures on this? I don't think the freezer will
stay frozen running a generator once a day - unless you are counting
24 hours as once.
Rod Speed
> Bob Ward wrote:
>> If you've got a fereezer to keep fresh bread on hand, you might as
>> well allow for keeping mayo in the fridge next to it - but when it
>> comes to down-and-dirty survival, anyone who insists on fresh bread
>> and mayo (and having the crusts cut off the sandwich) isn't hungry
>> enough. Let him skip a meal or two, living off the fat of the land.
> The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
> The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
Depends on the fridge. Mine doesnt.
> And a generator ran once a day will keep the
> freezer up, but will do nothing for the refrigerator.
See above.
> Also, there will likely be no loss of electricity during a bird flue
> pandemic,
Depends on the source of what is used to generate the power.
> but you still will not want to run to the store
> and get bread baked by sick cooks.
It aint the cooks that are the problem, its all the other monkeys.
> Also, there is no need for the fridge at all
> if electricity is lost due to an ice storm.
> And this is all for use before you get so low as down and dirty survival.
> No reason to drop back to the stone age before it is forced on us.
> And one solution will not work for every problem,
> thus the reason for stocking for both loss of electricity
> as well as just a loss of ability to go to town.
Covering the first will normally automatically cover the second fine.
Rod Speed
> On 4 Mar 2006 13:28:59 -0800, "CanopyCo" <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
>> The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
>> And a generator ran once a day will keep the freezer up, but will do
>> nothing for the refrigerator.
>
> Have you checked your figures on this? I don't think the
> freezer will stay frozen running a generator once a day
It will anyway.
> - unless you are counting 24 hours as once.
No freezer runs 24 hours a day. All you need to do is run
the generator for as long as the freezer normally runs per day.
Rod Speed
Not necessarily, some find they give them something
to do thats unusual enough to not be depressing at all.
> So is eating shitty food.
No it isnt. And there's a difference
between what's not ideal and shitty too.
> Who needs double depressing?
Most of us will survive that fine even if it does happen.
Logan Shaw
He didn't say it would stay frozen. He said it would stay good, which
would mean the food is still edible. Stuff will probably gradually
thaw out, but you can leave most of the stuff for a while at a few
degrees over freezing after it's completely thawed out, and it will take
some time for it to get to the point where it has thawed.
- Logan
Logan Shaw
> Gary Heston wrote:
>> A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a freezer
>> or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea.
>
> You will still need a way to cook it.
> Maybe something like a bread maker, powered by a generator that is also
> keeping your freezer up to speed?
Call me crazy, but what about just living without bread until the emergency
is over? It's not as if bread is the only food that contains some crucial
nutrient that you can't live without. Some areas/cultures don't even have
bread as part of their cuisine, or at least they don't have leavened bread.
Some people can't eat wheat, and yet they somehow manage to survive.
- Logan
Rod Speed
> Bob Ward wrote
>> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote
>>> The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
>>> The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
>>> And a generator ran once a day will keep the freezer up, but will do
>>> nothing for the refrigerator.
>> Have you checked your figures on this? I don't think the freezer will
>> stay frozen running a generator once a day - unless you are counting 24
>> hours as once.
> He didn't say it would stay frozen. He said it would stay good, which
> would mean the food is still edible. Stuff will probably gradually thaw
> out,
No it wouldnt as long as you have the freezer on the generator
for as long as it normally does run on mains power.
> but you can leave most of the stuff for a while at a few degrees over
> freezing after it's completely thawed out, and it will take some time for
> it to get to the point where it has thawed.
Yep, that latent heat is a lot more than what usually
leaks past the insulation with the contents frozen.
Rod Speed
> CanopyCo wrote:
>> Gary Heston wrote:
>
>>> A supply of flour and cornmeal, yeast, and baking soda kept in a
>>> freezer or in very well sealed containers might be a better idea.
>>
>> You will still need a way to cook it.
>> Maybe something like a bread maker, powered by a generator that is
>> also keeping your freezer up to speed?
>
> Call me crazy, but what about just living without bread until the
> emergency is over? It's not as if bread is the only food that
> contains some crucial nutrient that you can't live without.
There aint any of those if the power is out
for a couple of weeks or even a month.
> Some areas/cultures don't even have bread as part of their cuisine,
Yep, makes more sense to eat other stuff when there is no power.
> or at least they don't have leavened bread. Some people can't eat wheat,
> and yet they somehow manage to survive.
Yep, anyone can go without bread fine for weeks.
Corse they may choose to make bread because they prefer it too.
If you're gunna run the generator for a few hours a day to keep the
freezer frozen, you might as well run the breadmaker at the same
time and have nice fresh bread to eat as well.
And it aint academic, many of those who 'live' in mobile homes and
RVs use bread machines and microwaves in them. Works fine.
The bread machine will work fine on a decent solar system too.
CanopyCo
There are several variables involved in this, so YMMV.
However, my _chest_ type freezer is set to close to max normally.
This freezes things really solid.
And opening the lid will not dump out all the cold air like an upright
freezer will.
My chest freezer has kept stuff frozen for two days by just keeping the
lit shut.
No ad to this running the generator twice a day until the freezer shuts
of on its own and it will stay frozen indefinitely.
CanopyCo
of water to take up unused space.
An empty freezer does not have that ice to keep it going like a full
one does.
And yes, frozen meat is as good (or maybe better) as ice.
CanopyCo
Rod Speed wrote:
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote
> > Bob Ward wrote:
>
> >> If you've got a fereezer to keep fresh bread on hand, you might as
> >> well allow for keeping mayo in the fridge next to it - but when it
> >> comes to down-and-dirty survival, anyone who insists on fresh bread
> >> and mayo (and having the crusts cut off the sandwich) isn't hungry
> >> enough. Let him skip a meal or two, living off the fat of the land.
>
> > The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
> > The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
>
> Depends on the fridge. Mine doesnt.
Really?
You must not go to the fridge as much as I do.
I have a really bad habit of getting bord and fanning the fridge door
looking for something that was not there last time I looked.
"There must be something in there good to eat" type of thing.
Once you open the door, all the cold air falls out in an upright fridge
/ freezer.
>
> > And a generator ran once a day will keep the
> > freezer up, but will do nothing for the refrigerator.
>
> See above.
>
> > Also, there will likely be no loss of electricity during a bird flue
> > pandemic,
>
> Depends on the source of what is used to generate the power.
>
True, as well as depending on the people involved in keeping it going.
But still, that is less likely to loose power as quickly as, say, an
earth quake or ice storm.
> > but you still will not want to run to the store
> > and get bread baked by sick cooks.
>
> It aint the cooks that are the problem, its all the other monkeys.
>
Yep, all them monkeys that touch the food before you get it.
> > Also, there is no need for the fridge at all
> > if electricity is lost due to an ice storm.
>
> > And this is all for use before you get so low as down and dirty survival.
>
> > No reason to drop back to the stone age before it is forced on us.
>
> > And one solution will not work for every problem,
> > thus the reason for stocking for both loss of electricity
> > as well as just a loss of ability to go to town.
>
> Covering the first will normally automatically cover the second fine.
Yes, covering no power at all will cover power but no transport, but it
will not be a pleasant a covering.
CanopyCo
However some of us wish to live instead of just surviving.
You go ahead and live under a rock and eat worms.
I am going to eat what I always eat, and live in a comfortable house.
We will both survive.
CanopyCo
Better then that, how abut living without bread for ever?
What I am saying is that you can plan ahead a little and not be
required to do without anything that you would really notice.
But hay, if you really want to do without things, then do without them.
Don K
news:1141572617....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> What I am saying is that you can plan ahead a little and not be
> required to do without anything that you would really notice.
>
> But hay, if you really want to do without things, then do without them.
It's all a matter of defining your goals and the trade-offs
you want to make to achieve them. First you define the length
of time you would like the ability to be self-sufficient and
the degree of self-sufficiency (no power, no water, etc).
Then you start making trade-offs and compromises to achieve
those goals. How much money, space and effort do you want to
spend building up that self-sufficient stockpile.
Keep in mind that for comparable investments in stock, the
boring food would probably last twice as long as something
more tasty. When you run out of gourmet meals, you may
wish you has stocked more peanut butter and crackers instead.
Don
Rod Speed
>>>> If you've got a fereezer to keep fresh bread on hand, you might as
>>>> well allow for keeping mayo in the fridge next to it - but when it
>>>> comes to down-and-dirty survival, anyone who insists on fresh bread
>>>> and mayo (and having the crusts cut off the sandwich) isn't hungry
>>>> enough. Let him skip a meal or two, living off the fat of the land.
>>> The freezer will stay for several days before it goes bad.
>>> The refrigerator will go bad in one day.
>> Depends on the fridge. Mine doesnt.
> Really?
> You must not go to the fridge as much as I do.
> I have a really bad habit of getting bord and fanning the fridge door
> looking for something that was not there last time I looked.
> "There must be something in there good to eat" type of thing.
Yeah, I never ever do that. I know what's in the fridge near enough.
> Once you open the door, all the cold air falls out in an upright
> fridge / freezer.
Sure, but that doesnt necessarily mean that the food in the
fridge will go bad. I've normally got the fridge well stocked
so that stuff has a much higher thermal mass than the air.
>>> And a generator ran once a day will keep the
>>> freezer up, but will do nothing for the refrigerator.
>> See above.
>>> Also, there will likely be no loss of electricity during a bird flue
>>> pandemic,
>> Depends on the source of what is used to generate the power.
> True, as well as depending on the people involved in keeping it going.
Yeah, tho its likely that if they do want to minimise their personal
risk in that situation they should be able to find enough monkeys
to camp in the power station for the duration etc.
> But still, that is less likely to loose power as
> quickly as, say, an earth quake or ice storm.
Yeah, specially when they would normally be able to ring the
reluctant monkeys and tell them that if they dont come in to
work, they need not bother to show up at the power station again.
>>> but you still will not want to run to the store
>>> and get bread baked by sick cooks.
>> It aint the cooks that are the problem, its all the other monkeys.
> Yep, all them monkeys that touch the food before you get it.
The bigger problem is all those other monkeys buying
food just standing in line at the checkouts etc.
>>> Also, there is no need for the fridge at all
>>> if electricity is lost due to an ice storm.
>>> And this is all for use before you get so low as down and dirty
>>> survival.
>>> No reason to drop back to the stone age before it is forced on us.
>>> And one solution will not work for every problem,
>>> thus the reason for stocking for both loss of electricity
>>> as well as just a loss of ability to go to town.
>> Covering the first will normally automatically cover the second fine.
> Yes, covering no power at all will cover power but
> no transport, but it will not be a pleasant a covering.
Sure, but who cares about pleasant with a 50 year type event ?
Rod Speed
Perfectly possible to live fine without 'shitty food'
> You go ahead and live under a rock and eat worms.
Never ever said anything like that. In fact I said that if you
are going to run the generator to keep the freezer and
fridge cold, you might as well run the bread machine too.
> I am going to eat what I always eat,
I wouldnt go that far, I'm happy to eat differently when
I go camping than when I'm at home for example.
> and live in a comfortable house.
I choose not to do that at times too, most obviously when camping.
> We will both survive.
And some like the difference for a while too as long as the
difference doesnt last too long. A week or two is no big deal.
Even a couple of months or more if there is some grossly infectious
disease that is killing a very high percentage of people etc. The risk
of that is so low that there isnt any point in ensuring that you can go
6 months without going out of the house, just accept the fact that if
you need to stay there that long, that it wont be identical to how you
normally do things.
ms_peacock
"Gary Heston" <ghe...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:120hneo...@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <1141405339....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>>Bread is going to be a problem, considering that most like fresh bread.
>>You can store bread in the freezer if you want, or learn to bake it.
>>A bread maker is great for that.
>
> There are hand-cranked breadmakers?
>
> power for a breadmaker, you'll have it for refrigeration.
>
> inner bag isn't opened, they'll keep for a long time.
>
>
None of those things actually needs refrigeration if used regularly. All
you need to make bread is two hands, a big bowl and some way to bake it.
Ms P
ms_peacock
"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0qtOf.3888$gm....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Call me crazy, but what about just living without bread until the
> emergency
> is over? It's not as if bread is the only food that contains some crucial
> nutrient that you can't live without. Some areas/cultures don't even have
> bread as part of their cuisine, or at least they don't have leavened
> bread.
> Some people can't eat wheat, and yet they somehow manage to survive.
>
> - Logan
There's no need at all to go without bread. People have been making bread
for several millennia without electricity or gas. It can be made entirely
by hand and baked in a wood fired oven. It's not like it's hard to do.
Ms P
ms_peacock
"v" <vze8...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:440338ba...@news.verizon.net...
> On 23 Feb 2006 10:26:17 -0800, someone wrote:
>
>
>>Commends and suggestions are appreciated. FYI, I'm only aiming for a
>>
> Hmm, I probably have a week's worth just any thime at randome anyway.
I figure I'd have to stop going to the store for at least a month and
probably closer to two before I got down to just a week's supply of food.
Ms P
Rod Speed
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-...@austin.rr.com> wrote
>> Call me crazy, but what about just living without bread until the
>> emergency
>> is over? It's not as if bread is the only food that contains some
>> crucial nutrient that you can't live without. Some areas/cultures
>> don't even have bread as part of their cuisine, or at least they
>> don't have leavened bread.
>> Some people can't eat wheat, and yet they somehow manage to survive.
> There's no need at all to go without bread. People have been making
> bread for several millennia without electricity or gas.
True of everything, not just bread.
> It can be made entirely by hand and baked in a wood fired oven. It's not
> like it's hard to do.
Not many have a wood fired oven anymore tho.
If you are going to run a generator daily to keep the freezer
lmng...@myrealbox.com
>I forget if jelly or jam is the one that does not require
>refrigeration.
>
The one in the unopened jar will last longest at room temperature.
Smaller jars will make sense for emergency planning where you may be
without refrigeration for some time. After opening, neither is going
to spoil so quickly that you will become ill the 1st week
Consider this: both Jam and Jelly where invented before refrigeration
The Real Bev
After several weeks both (and preserves too) may start to grow mold, but it
probably won't kill you if you scrape the mold off.
--
Cheers,
Bev
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"We're from the Government. We're here to help."
George Grapman
> lmng...@myrealbox.com wrote:
>
>> On 3 Mar 2006 09:02:19 -0800, "CanopyCo" <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I forget if jelly or jam is the one that does not require
>>> refrigeration.
>>
>> The one in the unopened jar will last longest at room temperature.
>> Smaller jars will make sense for emergency planning where you may be
>> without refrigeration for some time. After opening, neither is going
>> to spoil so quickly that you will become ill the 1st week
>>
>> Consider this: both Jam and Jelly where invented before refrigeration
>
> After several weeks both (and preserves too) may start to grow mold, but
> it probably won't kill you if you scrape the mold off.
>
salamis hanging from the sealing and mozzarella is stored at room temp.
walk through Chinatown and the roast duck is hung on strings outside
the store.
None have these have even made me reach for the Tums.
--
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