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Why people don't commute by bike?

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His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 8, 2010, 9:38:32 AM8/8/10
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On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:

> > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> Ken

Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:

1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
car)

2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
another job or move.

3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
maybe you sweat at work anyway.

Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
"What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"

A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
SUV to be important, etc."

-------------------------------------------------------------

"TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE"

http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

Derek C

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Aug 8, 2010, 9:55:03 AM8/8/10
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On Aug 8, 2:38 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the

I used to commute by bike from the South-West London suburbs to
central London where I worked at the time. I gave up when I was
knocked off my bike by a small truck. Cycling was cheap and kept me
fit, but I decided that I would rather pay the railway company to get
me there in one piece. I still had to do some walking at both ends,
which kept me reasonably fit. The other disadvantages you mention also
applied Many train and bus operators will not allow you to take a
conventional bike on board in the rush hour and folding bikes are
fiddly, heavier and slower.

Derek C

Derek C

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 8, 2010, 10:06:29 AM8/8/10
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Thank you. Do you think the new opening of the Velib may change many
people's minds? I think it will here in Miami Beach, adding safety in
numbers.

Derek C

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Aug 8, 2010, 12:29:08 PM8/8/10
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On Aug 8, 3:06 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Thank you. Do you think the new opening of the Velib may change many
> people's minds? I think it will here in Miami Beach, adding safety in
> numbers.- Hide quoted text -
>

I would use decent marked cycle paths, separated from the main road,
if they where available. Unfortunately the psycholists would rather
die (literally) than use them, because they would no longer be able to
ride in the 'primary position' and hold up the drivers of motor
vehicles.

Derek C

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 8, 2010, 1:35:48 PM8/8/10
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Right, such is the fate of bike facilities when money gets dumped in
war. But whatever we got here (a mixed path) is so wasteful and poorly
designed that it's better designed for the people walking dogs.

I'm for both at this point: TAKE THE LANE for the adventurous, and
BIKE PATHS for the peace of mind. Dedicated bike lanes don't take you
where you need to go and are not connected.

Don Klipstein

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Aug 9, 2010, 12:07:45 AM8/9/10
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In <3140c0b1-e525-469f...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote:

>On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
>> > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
>> > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>>
>> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus
>> that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the
>> road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>

>Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
>1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
>enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
>cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
>car)

I mostly cycle in the street. My bike commuting is 95-plus % in the
street.

>2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
>another job or move.

I have lived and worked for about 3 years where I commuted mostly by
bike for 8 miles each way.

Since then, I moved and reduced my bike commute to about 4 miles each
way.

>3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
>maybe you sweat at work anyway.

My current day job is delivering by bike. So was my previous day job.
Both of which I commuted to mainly by bike.
Includes summertime in Philadelphia, including that city's 2 hottest
Julys and 2 hottest Junes and their hottest May, as well as their hottest
4 summers and one of 2 Philly summers tied for 5th place hottest, since
1873.

>Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
>"What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
>fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"

I have crashed my fair share of times, and I am thankful that I get
exercise and drink lots of milk. Good-and-strong bones help. So does
experience with gymnastics and wrestling in junior highschool gym classes,
and having a boyfriend who often likes to "play rough" in bed.

I lost only 1 workday in the past 25.5 years due to a bike crash, and
that was not a commuting crash. This is my "disabling crash rate" even
with the past winter being Philadelphia's snowiest in over 135 years, and
the infamous ice storms that struck Philly in early 1994.
(The worst one of which produced a lot of rain while the temperature was
-3 to -3.5 C. My coat got crunchy with a crunchy ice coating. Icicles
started forming at the rim of my helmet.)

>A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
>herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
>SUV to be important, etc."

And in response, I proudly ride a bike! Even occaisionally shouting,
"Mahaha-hiya Give it to me one ti-ime now"! More often, I use my voice
to have every bike that I ride being one that has a horn and a siren with
every adjustability in pitch, timbre, tone and volume imaginable!

Roughly 1/4 million plus miles by bike already, and Philadelphia's lousy
drivers and occaisionally-severe weather have yet to kill me, or even get
a bone fracture into my medical record!

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

Message has been deleted

Don Klipstein

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Aug 9, 2010, 1:25:47 AM8/9/10
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In <a10d4bdc-1b21-4803...@l14g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote in part:

>I'm for both at this point: TAKE THE LANE for the adventurous, and
>BIKE PATHS for the peace of mind. Dedicated bike lanes don't take you
>where you need to go and are not connected.

My experience in Philadelphia is presence of bike lanes to such a high
extent as networking throughout much of some neighborhoods and to some
extent arguably citywide.

On roads where there is no bike lane, my experience is that "The Usual
Rule" is "Share the Road"!

Bikes and cars negotiate with each other how they move on the roadway!
Bikes TAKE THE LANE and slow down "motor traffic" when necessary to move!
Bikes "squeeze rightward" (in USA) when that allows bikes and "motor
traffic" to share the road!

And when the road only has minimal width for motor vehicles alone, then
cyclists alternate between "TAKING THE LANE" and stopping offside from the
road to let "motor traffic" pass.

I see a "Greater Rule":

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Since I now own a car and have driven cars about 55 or 60 thousand miles
and since I first owned a car I cycled a goodly 120,000 miles, I strongly
believe in "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Share
The Road".
My experience is that close to 98% of even Philadelphia's infamous
drivers are at least somewhat reasonable. Road users tend to need to
"be reasonable" with each other in order to make much usage of roads!

And, when I see a motor vehicle driver yield right-of-way to
me in ways not required overtly by law or not require by "local vehicle
law enforcement culture", I wave one of my hands to "say thanks", which
car drivers (occaisionally myself) often do!

As for the other 2% (probably closer to 1% or less, especially if
excluding the common driver error of failing to signal in advance of a
lane change that may have a rate closer to 20% in Philadelphia):

"Bitch out" when a cyclist is in best position to force a motorist to
choose between "sharing the road" and "willfully committing a murder".

And, when "share the road" is an option, I do that rather than "take
the lane". I go for "peaceful coexistence" whenever that can be done.

Suppose I was driving a bulldozer or a large farm tractor? (Thankfully,
those travel "on-road" only around 30 meters to a km or two.)

How about how the Amish in Lancaster County and nearby in Pennsylvania
drive horse-drawn carriages on roads with only 1 lane each way? The
Amish "play fair" with motor vehicles and cyclists; even the cyclists that
"more disapproving Amish" "would cast a dirty look unto" when the cyclists
are proudly-city-rat cyclists that are wearing clothes that show more than
hide the underneath bodies of such cyclists!

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)


His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 10:40:51 AM8/9/10
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On Aug 8, 9:07 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <3140c0b1-e525-469f-8254-8185b931a...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,

Well, I think you deserve a Golden Medal for VALOR and PRIDE. I say
"pride" because valor comes from stupidity. The Germans who fought for
Hitler surely fought with valor, but I bet few felt pride in what they
did after the war.

Bicycling can also come from need, in which there's little pride.

I really believe that someday we should award medals for cycling.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 11:01:24 AM8/9/10
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On Aug 8, 9:21 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article
> <3140c0b1-e525-469f-8254-8185b931a...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,

>  "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>
>
>
>  Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that
> > > number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road.  
> > > There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > Ken
>
> > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > car)
>
> Two summers ago, I was assaulted in broad daylight while riding my bike
> across the Ben Franklin bridge that spans the Delaware River between
> Philadelphia and Camden. This is the only bridge sits between my
> apartment and my job unless I go way out of my way to ride my bike
> across a small bridge about 10 miles north of where I live. In addition,
> on the side of the Ben Franklin closest to where I live, there is no
> safe access from the route I have to take to its pedestrian pathway. The
> only way for me to get to the pedestrian area is to take a much longer
> route through a neighborhood that is one of the most dangerous in the
> United States or to ride on a major highway during rush hour, which is
> probably illegal and definitely unsafe. These are the two big deterrents
> for why I never ride my bike to work any more. I heard recently that one
> of some of President Obama's stimulus money will be used to extend a
> bike and jogging path that runs right by my apartment in NJ into
> Philadelphia without having to travel through dangerous areas to ride a
> bike or walk/run across the bridge. If that project comes to fruition
> and I am still living in this area, I will definitely ride my bike to
> work on days when the weather is nice.

I hope it doesn't become another fancy MIXED PATH that creates danger
to all. Their capacity to waste money in stupid design is
incredible. ;)

I have a CAUSEWAY nearby where I was attacked. It's actually traveled
by few cyclists despite its beauty overlooking the bay. That day --
with no traffic-- the police waved me to get the off the road across
the bridge; later a guy in an SUV blasted the horn at me --outside the
bridge-- I guess for taking the lane; and finally another guy blew the
horn and I gave him the finger...

I was riding to the right, coming home tired and disheartened, but I
forgot to read the sign that said 'WALK BICYCLE ACROSS BRIDGE' (some 3
blocks) for which there's a VERY NARROW sidewalk and the guy was
playing vigilante. It didn't come to blows (I had no chance with that
beast) but he spit in my face and left.

I have a saying though, "MY STRUGGLE IS NOT AGAINST THE PUPPET, BUT
AGAINST THE PUPPETEER," and the police department of that area and the
whole predatory driving system in America is responsible. The truth
shall be said, PEOPLE BUY SUV'S TO BE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 11:10:41 AM8/9/10
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On Aug 9, 7:13 am, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Cyclists that block a lane should be run over. Nothing worse than
> > > > some ass-wipe in gay spandex blocking a traffic lane. If you can't
> > > > pedal at least 45 mph get off the road. If there is no bike lane than
> > > > the road is for motor vehicles only. Move to China.
> > > Right on! Why should a motorist slow down for anything? Those
> > > pedestrians stepping off the curb? They expect you to yield?
>
> > > Target practice!
> > Don't try to be clever. We are not talking about pedestrians. Try to
> > stay focused.
>
> What's different about pedestrians? They're just like cyclists and
> they get in the way!
>
> Gun that motor!

"Pedestrian" can mean "Undistinguished; ordinary"...

In which case they have little value before the "distinguished,
extraordinary drivers" (la creme de la creme) who invest their "hard
earned money" in cars and SUVs, the bigger the better.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 11:23:21 AM8/9/10
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This is how "moderated bicycle groups" (aka censored) solve the
problem we have with cycling...

http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/browse_thread/thread/e69ad85d4dd57eec/0679f7cdf7c070d0?hl=en&

The same for "Bike Forums" and the Florida Bicycle Association
(offending God worshipers in a Religious/Political forum and offending
the Republican respectively).

The American Taliban work by self-censorship so the bubble (democracy)
doesn't pop.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 11:42:38 AM8/9/10
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On Aug 8, 5:30 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:36:04 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:53 am, edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 8, 2:48 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>
> >> > On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:31:04 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> >> > Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
> >> > > On Aug 8, 11:13 am, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> >> > >> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:49:21 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> >> > >> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
> >> > >> > A couple of days ago, my good but unintelligent neighbor got mad when
> >> > >> > I told him of my campaign to TAKE THE LANE.
>
> >> > >> Not a problem. If you TAKE THE LANE like one lame-brain did on a blind
> >> > >> corner, there will be one less bicyclist on the road as well.
>
> >> > > Wrong. When you take the lane you are more visible around blind
> >> > > curves.
>
> >> > This girl wasn't. Good thing I have good brakes. Judging from the size of
> >> > the brown stain I bet she won't be "asserting her rights" again
>
> >> > Is poop easily removed from Spandex?
>
> >> Good one!
>
> > He's in the Most Wanted list for killing cyclists in 5 states.
>
> I have never killed a cyclist.
>
> Made a few think about "Taking back the road", however.

Jaywalking and reckless cyclists are a problem, but shouldn't be
addressed by terrorizing all pedestrians and cyclists.

You sure you are not in the Most Wanted?

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 1:32:38 PM8/9/10
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On Aug 9, 9:32 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> In message
> <a1c89d11-2bf8-41ba-8ee2-a875b1d3d...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, at
> 09:22:54 on Mon, 9 Aug 2010, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of
> the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> remarked:

> >Some .4% of Americans do compared to some 30% in the Netherlands.

> >Something is missing, right?

> Indeed it is. The main missing thing there is an appreciation of the
> different (physical and social) geography of the two countries.
> --
> Roland Perry

As well as the different consumption patterns and the role of TV in
selling SUVs as the ultimate solution to status, sprawl and "safety."

But the spread out geography doesn't help the gigantic traffic jams in
and around our cities.

Cindy Hamilton

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Aug 9, 2010, 1:42:38 PM8/9/10
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On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the

Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road.  There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > Ken
>
> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> car)
>
> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> another job or move.
>
> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> maybe you sweat at work anyway.


You forgot one:

4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

Don Klipstein

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Aug 9, 2010, 2:03:28 PM8/9/10
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In <066ba46e-6aaa-4b43...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>You forgot one:
>
>4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

I rode through about 90% of the snow that the Philadelphia area got last
winter. That was Philly's snowiest winter on record since official
recordkeeping started in 1873. I ride through slush. I ride through
cold, even Philadelphia's coldest day since I started delivering by bike
in early 1985. I even rode through all of the ice storms that befell the
Philly area in early 1994.

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

Simon Lewis

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Aug 9, 2010, 2:05:24 PM8/9/10
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d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) writes:

That's nice. Do you know Bill Baka?

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 9, 2010, 5:21:28 PM8/9/10
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On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
they still do it.

But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.

Tony Raven

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Aug 9, 2010, 5:57:23 PM8/9/10
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Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>>
>> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's
>> strong enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus
>> rendering cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who
>> can't afford a car)
>>
>> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
>> another job or move.
>>
>> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
>> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
>
> You forgot one:
>
> 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

Actually not really any of the above. Two good bits of research on the
reasons people don't cycle are:

http://tinyurl.com/2veyy36
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tra.2006.09.002

Tony

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 9, 2010, 6:47:39 PM8/9/10
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It actually confirms what I say: FEAR.

Let me put this way. You enter a jungle, and the lion (except that
lions do not live in jungles) can prey on many animals other than you,
but he roars and you start to tremble. Kind of natural, isn't it? You
are not a hunter, you are not looking to struggle and conquer your
fears. You are in it for the fun of it or whatever peaceful pursuit.

Now this lion is not tamed in any way and it's allowed to run wild,
sometimes "disappearing" from the scene after striking, so nobody
knows what hit you. There's a Spanish terror movie about this creature
of the jungle, which was assumed to be a girl gone wild. There's
really panic among seasoned hunters. In the end it wasn't the girl but
another hunter.

These SUVs sport a ROARING MOTOR THAT JARS YOUR CONVICTIONS AND
DETERMINATION, until you decide it's time to quit. SOLUTION?

Put as much as space as possible between you and the beast.

Probably the conditions in Europe are somewhat better because:

1- You use smaller cars

2- You are better trained

3- Fewer road rage

4- More conscience of "sharing"

5- You have Universal Healthcare

Forrest Hodge

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Aug 9, 2010, 7:35:54 PM8/9/10
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On 8/8/2010 9:38 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the


"It's too dangerous"

Yes it is, where I live (semi-rural), my commute is mainly on 2 lane
roads with no real shoulder and certainly no sidewalks. The speed limit
on these roads is 45 MPH with traffic usually moving along at around 50
MPH.

"TOO FAR"

Shockingly many areas don't have public transportation. Mine doesn't. I
also like my job and have no interest in tying to find another job.

"I WILL SWEAT"

I've never worked for any place that has showers for it's employees.


I choose to drive to work because. I enjoy it and it's much faster. For
recreational use and exercise I'll ride a bike, but for practical
purposes a car is the better alternative for me.


His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 9, 2010, 7:53:34 PM8/9/10
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A good niche for the bicycle, even when not practical for commuting,
is going to the supermarket and errands around the community.

It's been estimated most trips take under 5 miles and that cars do low
mileage and high pollution when cold, which I can not confirm.

Forrest Hodge

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Aug 10, 2010, 1:04:37 AM8/10/10
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On 8/9/2010 7:53 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories
wrote:

Again depends on the location, the nearest supermarket around here is
about 8 miles away with the most direct route which involved a four lane
divided highway with a 55 MPH speed limit. The alternate route is mostly
two lane roads but is about 4 miles longer.

On the flip side, living in a rural area does have advantages for
recreational biking as there are plenty of back roads to ride on with
almost no traffic at all. You can ride for an hour and maybe encounter
two cars. But again for practical purposes like going to the supermarket
or going to the shops, or undertaking a journey where time is an issue,
the car wins.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 10, 2010, 9:07:43 AM8/10/10
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On Aug 9, 11:30 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <49e8c232-a8dd-4a53-a6f6-2c6fb6a9a...@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at
> 14:18:14 on Mon, 9 Aug 2010, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of
> the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> remarked:
>
> >I blame it more on SOCIAL ENGINEERING than social geography.
>
> >In this case TV is the vehicle for creating a certain consumption
> >pattern based on waste.
>
> Whether TV is to blame for the choice of vehicle or not, the suburban
> lifestyle in the USA is entirely unsuited to commuting by cycle, because
> the distances are too great.
>
> I have lived or worked in both USA suburbs and Dutch cities, and seen
> the differences at first hand - have you?
> --
> Roland Perry

I believe you. But greater distances are easily traveled with faster
bikes. Also they may be used in conjunction with public
transportation.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 10, 2010, 9:10:07 AM8/10/10
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You know, there are such back countries roads near the Everglades I
wanted to go and some people say to avoid them... Drunk Mexicans in p/
u trucks are a menace. It could be Gringos but you get the point, that
you are on your own.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 10, 2010, 9:23:34 AM8/10/10
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On Aug 10, 2:49 am, bod <bodro...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> boltar2...@boltar.world wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:03:16 +0100
> > Basil Jet <jo...@journeyflow.spamspam.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010\08\09 17:22, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> >> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> >>> On Aug 9, 8:49 am, Stephen Allcroft<stephenallcr...@lycos.co.uk>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Some people do, therefore you qusetion is vitiated.

> >>> Some .4% of Americans do compared to some 30% in the Netherlands.
>
> >>> Something is missing, right?
> >> Yeah, all the Americans have to do is level the Rockies and the
> >> Appalachians to make America as bike-friendly as the Netherlands.
>
> > I don't think anyone blames the americans for using their cars if they
> > live miles from nowhere. But you don't need a gas guzzling 5.0 V8 SUV to
> > bring the groceries back from the shops. It does seem that some yanks
> > few profligate waste of resources as a human right and that is what pisses
> > off many people.
>
> > B2003
>
> >
>
> Yes, but many in this country drive their kids to school and do the
> shopping in Chelsea tractors.
>
> Bod

Few people have researched this area, but kids who are brought to
school in SUVs are bullied less than those driven in little Minis.
Actually they may be the bullies while the kids in Minis are the
brains.

We need to fund this research commonly observed among drivers of SUVs
and Minis.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories

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Aug 10, 2010, 9:27:55 AM8/10/10
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On Aug 10, 2:58 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <i3r70b$g...@speranza.aioe.org>, at 09:43:39 on Tue, 10 Aug
> 2010, boltar2...@boltar.world remarked:

>
> >I don't think anyone blames the americans for using their cars if they
> >live miles from nowhere. But you don't need a gas guzzling 5.0 V8 SUV to
> >bring the groceries back from the shops.
>
> But you do need to own something that's also suitable for long trips on
> sometimes very poor roads. The attraction of the SUV concept is that
> it's a more suitable compromise than an even bigger traditional 4x4 or
> pickup truck.
> --
> Roland Perry

To be honest, you got a point there. You need SUVs in Africa. That's
what they were created for...

It was the mighty LandRover, not this Supersized Unnecessary
Vehicle...

http://www.blog.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/flying-hummer.jpg

Cindy Hamilton

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Aug 10, 2010, 1:29:53 PM8/10/10
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On Aug 9, 5:21 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I forgot one (kind of weather), too: Ice. When the cars are sliding
around
like two-ton billiard balls is no time to be on the roads atop a few
pounds
of bicycle.

Cindy Hamilton

Derek C

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Aug 10, 2010, 2:09:53 PM8/10/10
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On Aug 10, 6:29 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> Cindy Hamilton-

One of the problems in the UK is the poor state of our roads,
especially after this year's hard winter. There were potholes
everywhere, especially where commercial vehicles ran their nearside
wheels, which is about where you would like to cycle.

Derek C

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 10, 2010, 4:14:14 PM8/10/10
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On Aug 10, 10:29 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>

I think some knee pads can help. But hey, public transportation is out
there too.

Here the heat can be extreme for many people, but cycling is better
than walking. You get some breeze at least.

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock

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Aug 10, 2010, 4:17:52 PM8/10/10
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I did 2.3 miles today on 16" Dahon. No big deal, but just for the
record. On main road!

I wore the bright vest with no shirt to help beat the heat.

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