Re: Thermostat Set-Back Help
Rod Speed
> I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
> I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> in upstate New York.
> I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
That does not happen with that sort of heating.
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save money?
Any will.
> Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day
> and then back up to room temperature when I get home?
Yes.
> Or will that wind up costing the same as leaving the heat on?
Nope, not with that form of heating.
> What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back different?
Nope, you only really need to ensure that you dont get pipes freezing etc.
Note that with some other forms of heating, there can be downsides with
the more substantial setbacks, particularly with some heat pump technologys.
> Thank you for your suggestions.
Even a suggestion to shove your head up a dead bear's arse ?
clams_casino
>I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
>to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
>I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
>I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
>in upstate New York.
>
>I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
>idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
>the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
>much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
>
Using a heat pump can cost as much to reheat the home, but that's
because electrical resister heat typically kicks in. With a gas
system, your savings will be most of the time the temperature is cut
back. Simply put, the cost to reheat will be approximately the cost
savings as the temperature drops to the lowest setting where most of the
savings is essentially the time the residence is holding at its lowest
temperature. In actuality, it's a bit more complicated than that, but
that's essentially true for practical purposes.
>Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
>money?
>
Lower, the better - it costs less to hold your residence at 60 vs. 65
and 50 vs. 55, etc.
>Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
>back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
>costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
>
You will use less energy by setting it back. The key, however, is your
comfort level and not being too low as to have pipes freeze. When it's
very cold outside, it'll take a lot longer to reheat to a comfortable
level. Furthermore, depending on your insulation, 40F may result in
frozen pipes where the outside wall temperature & area around the pipes
(if pipes are in an outside wall) will be colder than the inside room
temperature when the outside temperature is much below freezing and for
long periods of time..
>What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
>different?
>
>
>
Same advantage - you'll save on energy, but keep the temperature high
enough to prevent pipes from freezing when the outside temperature is
below freezing and keeping in mind it may take hours to build the
temperature back to a comfortable setting, depending on the outside
temperature, the volume of your apartment, how well it's insulated,
etc..
Dave C.
sse1...@aim.com wrote:
> I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
> I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> in upstate New York.
>
> I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
> money? Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
> back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
> costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
> What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> different?
>
> Thank you for your suggestions.
Generally, you will save 10% for every 3 degrees F that you turn the
heat down. However, if you have any water pipes near exterior walls,
you generally don't want to turn the heat down much lower than 55F, as
the pipes near the exterior walls can freeze.
Oh, and it's a myth that re-heating the house/apartment will use more
energy than if you just left the heat turned up all the time. If you
are typically out of the apartment from say, 7:30 to 5:30, try this on
a set-back thermometer...
7:00AM 55F (start a half hour before you leave, to maximize savings)
5:30PM 71F (just as you get home, it will start warming up...)
8:00PM 68F (this is a perfect sleeping temperature for deep sleep)
For a weekend setting, just change 7:00 AM to 68F
If you go away for the night or weekend, use the "hold" feature to set
the temperature to 55F. Hold will over-ride programming and the temp.
will stay wherever you set it until you take it off hold. -Dave
Dave C.
> >
> Same advantage - you'll save on energy, but keep the temperature high
> enough to prevent pipes from freezing when the outside temperature is
> below freezing and keeping in mind it may take hours to build the
> temperature back to a comfortable setting, depending on the outside
> temperature, the volume of your apartment, how well it's insulated,
> etc..
Natural gas forced hot air will heat up a space quick, even if it's not
very well insulated. In a worst case scenario, if the temperature is
about 50F inside when he gets home (lower than that would risk pipes
freezing), he should be comfortable within 10 minutes of turning the
heat back up. Note that the temperature might not level out for 15 or
20 minutes. But within 10 minutes, it should come up 20F, roughly.
Unless the heating system is not properly sized for the space it is
heating. -Dave
Napoleon
>I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
>in upstate New York.
I live in upstate NY too and find that the delivery costs of NG are
higher than my supply costs, so matter how much I save in supply, the
bill never really gets lower. If you have National Grid, check to see
how much your bill goes down by saving on supply. I bet not much
unfortunately.
Nevertheless, I keep the house at 58 from 7:30am to 5pm and 8:30pm to
6:20am M-F. It is only turned up to 64 from 6:20-7:30am and
5pm-8:30pm. On the weekends it's kept at 64 from 8:30am-5pm (I wish I
can keep it the same on weekends as on weekdays, but others complain
about the cold).
>What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
>different?
I'd keep at 58 all the time if you're going away. I've probably saved
about 10 dollars a month in NG supply charges by keeping it at 58, yet
the delivery charges go up and up, which means I can lower the
temperature in the house as much as I want, and still not save on
utility charges.
Dave C.
Napoleon <ana...@666yes.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:32:33 -0500, sse1...@aim.com wrote:
>
> >I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> >in upstate New York.
>
> I live in upstate NY too and find that the delivery costs of NG are
> higher than my supply costs, so matter how much I save in supply, the
> bill never really gets lower. If you have National Grid, check to see
> how much your bill goes down by saving on supply. I bet not much
> unfortunately.
>
> Nevertheless, I keep the house at 58 from 7:30am to 5pm and 8:30pm to
> 6:20am M-F. It is only turned up to 64 from 6:20-7:30am and
> 5pm-8:30pm. On the weekends it's kept at 64 from 8:30am-5pm (I wish I
> can keep it the same on weekends as on weekdays, but others complain
> about the cold).
As they should. At that temp, you can die of hypothermia.
>
> >What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> >different?
>
> I'd keep at 58 all the time if you're going away. I've probably saved
> about 10 dollars a month in NG supply charges by keeping it at 58, yet
> the delivery charges go up and up, which means I can lower the
> temperature in the house as much as I want, and still not save on
> utility charges.
That's a good point. At best, you are only going to save about 20% on
the *supply* charges by using a set-back thermostat. Unless the
apartment is empty the whole month, set at 55 the whole time.
So you can (and probably should) use a set-back thermometer, but don't
expect your utility bill to drop more than about 10%. -Dave
Lou
<sse1...@aim.com> wrote in message
news:7lk7i55sgifbifieu...@4ax.com...
> I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
> in upstate New York.
>
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
> money? Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
> back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
> costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
> different?
>
A couple of things I haven't seen mentioned in the replies posted so far.
When your living quarters cool down, everything cools down - the air, the
furniture, the walls, etc. Your heater can probably make pretty short work
of warming the air, but re-warming all that other stuff will take time.
Your couch or favorite chair may still be uncomfortably cool long after the
thermostat says your apartment is warm.
The other point is that it takes time for everything to cool down. I heat
with natural gas (in southern NJ, not upstate NY, and I live in a house, not
an apartment) and have a set back thermostat. Our winters are pretty
variable - some are cold and snowy, others not as bad as the year I lived in
Atlanta GA. One year that was colder and snowier than average, our area had
to 2+ day when the electricity was out. Of course, the furnace didn't work
during that period, but the interior temperature didn't fall below 50.
Back in my college days in Massachusetts, I lived in a third floor walkup
apartment. I used to turn the heat completely off at night and never had a
problem. But is was an old building, and the plumbing was all exposed, not
buried in the walls. It was tough getting up in the morning - the
temperature in that apartment would fall into the low 40's some nights.
Mix that stuff in with tiered billing rates and separate fixed charges for
delivery, and it can be difficult to predict how much money you'll save by
downing the heat down. The best way to find out is to try it and see.
Vic Smith
<PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>You will use less energy by setting it back. The key, however, is your
>comfort level and not being too low as to have pipes freeze. When it's
>very cold outside, it'll take a lot longer to reheat to a comfortable
>level. Furthermore, depending on your insulation, 40F may result in
>frozen pipes where the outside wall temperature & area around the pipes
>(if pipes are in an outside wall) will be colder than the inside room
>temperature when the outside temperature is much below freezing and for
>long periods of time..
>
The lower the temp safely (pipes) go the more the savings.
What's important to remember is that heat loss and heating bills
are greatly affected by temperature differentials.
The cooler the house the less heat transfers to the outside.
And it's not a linear calc.
A thermo set at 73 instead of 70 can use much more energy than
the "10% every 3 degrees" I've seen mentioned here.
My own observation is when the heat is turned off in bitter temps
the house temps decline fairly rapidly at first, then considerably
slows in further decline.
You may find that if you set the thermo to 40 an hour before you leave
for work it will be comfortable enough when you leave.
If set for 68 at 5:30, you may arrive home to find just it coming on,
and the temp is still at +60.
Sometimes when the heat goes on in a cold house, the moving warm air
makes it feel more comfortable than the temperature would indicate.
But some places, like ceramic floors will feel very cold until they
absorb the heat.
You have to experiment to find your comfort level.
But the cooler the home temp, the less the gas bill.
--Vic
John Weiss
> I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
> I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> in upstate New York.
>
> I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
> money? Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
> back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
> costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
> What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> different?
When you are returning sometime during the day, anything less than 60
will not likely generate any real savings, unless you are comfortable
at 65. The time to warm the air and "stuff" to a comfortable level
will be excessive.
If you are away longer than a day, set it no lower than 50 so water
pipes in/near the exterior walls do not freeze.
If you have a newer 90%+ efficient furnace, any temperature
differential >6 deg or so will trigger the high-heat mode, negating
much of the savings. So, don't setback more than that overnight.
I use 62 night, 68 wakeup, 67 away (which is really a combination of
away/home), 69 home (evening).
Bill
>I am trying to save money on my heating costs.
>
Turn down the heating for the entire apartment. Move the TV into the
bedroom. Use a space heater to heat just the bedroom. Keep the door closed.
Also you can install clear plastic over the windows and tape it. Then heavy
drapes over that.
h
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
> I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> in upstate New York.
>
> I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
> money? Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
> back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
> costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
> What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> different?
>
I keep my thermostat between 50-55 24x7.
Rod Speed
> <sse1...@aim.com> wrote in message
>> I am trying to save money on my heating costs.
> Turn down the heating for the entire apartment. Move the TV into the bedroom. Use a space heater to heat just the
> bedroom. Keep the door closed.
Makes more sense to use a heated throw or electric blanket instead.
Marsha
> 8:00PM 68F (this is a perfect sleeping temperature for deep sleep)
>
You're kidding, right? At 68, we're roasting. It's 64 in our house 24/7.
Marsha
clams_casino
We like 68 during the day & 65 for sleeping.