WSJ: Yes, You Can Live With Less Plastic
muggle...@googlemail.com
January 24, 2009
Yes, You Can Live With Less Plastic
By JENNIFER WATERS
If cash is now king, could Americans who give up credit cards live
like royalty?
Being forced to live entirely within your means may make you feel rich
in a way, but trying to get along in the modern world with no credit
at all can be a royal pain.
Besides the more frequent trips to the ATM, cash-only customers face a
much more difficult time in our plastic-dependent society when buying
big-ticket items like homes, cars and washing machines, not to mention
emergency spending for, say, a furnace that goes kaput in the middle
of winter.
"Can consumers live in a cash-only world? No," says Britt Beemer,
chief executive of America's Research Group. "But they can live in a
more cash-oriented world than they do now. That's happening as more
and more people are willing to make an effort to do so."
As consumers grapple with spending in an economy marred by rising
unemployment, growing numbers of foreclosures and what's expected to
be an unprecedented jump in credit-card defaults this year, pulling in
the reins makes sense.
Credit Diets
As Mr. Beemer says, many consumers are voluntarily putting themselves
on a credit-card-free spending diet, while others are being forced by
banks, lending institutions and credit-card companies that are
reducing limits and in some cases yanking credit lines altogether.
For those folks, the use of debit cards that won't accept transactions
larger than the available funds in an account has replaced the credit
card, along with alternatives means of noncredit payments such as
eBillme and PayPal.
"It seems that people spend less when they don't have a credit card
available," says Paula Peter, an assistant professor of consumer
behavior at San Diego State University. "With cash, your spending
ability is limited."
According to eBillme, the cash-based payment alternative, its fourth-
quarter online spending index found that 46% of customers said they
would step up their use of such methods to finance purchases. The
first-quarter index released this past week reported that 42% of
consumers have used their credit cards less in the last 90 days in
favor of noncredit payment options.
"The shift from credit toward cashlike options is the desire for
consumers to control their financing," says Marwan Forzley, chief
executive of eBillme. He sees "a clear shift in attitude" to pay as
you go.
Get Practical
So does the Federal Reserve. In its most recent data, consumer credit
fell at an annual rate of 3.75% in November. Revolving credit was down
some 3.5%, while nonrevolving credit sank at an annual rate of 4%.
Meanwhile, the most recent data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis
showed that U.S. households increased their saving rate to 2.8% of
their disposable income in November from less than 1% from 2005 to
last April.
That's good news. But though living on a cash-only basis may be
healthy, it's not always practical. "There are cases when you
absolutely need to use credit," says Mr. Forzley.
Using credit cards to fund purchases isn't a bad thing. In fact, there
are many positives to it that go beyond not having to carry wads of
cash. One can build a good credit history, which in turn can make it
easier to buy a home or car or to rent an apartment.
And don't forget about all the perks that some credit cards offer,
like redeemable mileage for air travel, hotel stays or a bevy of
discounts. Some will even help pay for prescriptions and other health-
related items.
'Big Challenge'
But using credit cards to bankroll a lifestyle that's out of sync with
your income could be destructive to your financial health. "If we keep
postponing what we pay off, at what point does that crash?" asks Ms.
Peter.
She warns consumers who want to shift to cash to do it slowly. "It's a
big challenge to change your habits," she says. Here are some tips:
Make a plan. Use credit cards to get gas or big-ticket items, but
commit to using cash when shopping for everything from food to
clothes.
Make a budget before you shop. If the fear is you'll carry too much
cash, make multiple trips.
Trash the plastic. But do keep the debit card.
Pay them off. If you keep any credit cards, pay them off in full each
month. That's not a new idea, but sticking to that resolve achieves
much the same result as using all cash without the drawbacks.
clams_casino
>The Wall Street Journal
>January 24, 2009
>
>Yes, You Can Live With Less Plastic
>
>
> If you keep any credit cards, pay them off in full each
>month. That's not a new idea, but sticking to that resolve achieves
>much the same result as using all cash without the drawbacks.
>
>
>
Only useful part was the last two sentences.
Too_Many_Tools
Agreed.
Anything else benefits the parasites that suck your economic blood.
TMT
Evelyn Leeper
I was hoping for an article telling us how to buy things with less
plastic packaging!
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I know you can't live on hope alone but without hope
life is not worth living. -Harvey Milk
Rod Speed
> The Wall Street Journal
> January 24, 2009
> Yes, You Can Live With Less Plastic
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to keep the plastic
and just pay off the balance in full every month, fool.
> By JENNIFER WATERS
> If cash is now king, could Americans who give up credit cards live like royalty?
You wouldnt know how royalty lives they all bit you on your lard arse, you silly cow.
> Being forced to live entirely within your means
You dont have to give up on plastic to do that, you silly cow.
> may make you feel rich in a way, but trying to get along in
> the modern world with no credit at all can be a royal pain.
And pointless to boot.
> Besides the more frequent trips to the ATM,
Doesnt have to be more frequent...
> cash-only customers face a much more difficult time in our
> plastic-dependent society when buying big-ticket items like
> homes, cars and washing machines, not to mention emergency
> spending for, say, a furnace that goes kaput in the middle of winter.
> "Can consumers live in a cash-only world? No," says Britt
> Beemer, chief executive of America's Research Group.
Then he's a fool.
> "But they can live in a more cash-oriented world than they do now.
No point. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to pay of the plastic in full every month instead.
> That's happening as more and more people are willing to make an effort to do so."
All that proves is that there are lots of fools around. No news.
> As consumers grapple with spending in an economy marred
> by rising unemployment, growing numbers of foreclosures
> and what's expected to be an unprecedented jump in
> credit-card defaults this year, pulling in the reins makes sense.
There are no reins, fool.
> Credit Diets
> As Mr. Beemer says, many consumers are voluntarily
> putting themselves on a credit-card-free spending diet,
All that proves is that there are lots of fools around. No news.
> while others are being forced by banks, lending institutions
> and credit-card companies that are reducing limits and in
> some cases yanking credit lines altogether.
Thats what credit crunches produce, fool.
> For those folks, the use of debit cards that won't accept transactions
> larger than the available funds in an account has replaced the credit
> card, along with alternatives means of noncredit payments such as
> eBillme and PayPal.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.
> "It seems that people spend less when they don't have a credit card
> available," says Paula Peter, an assistant professor of consumer
> behavior at San Diego State University. "With cash, your spending
> ability is limited."
Must be one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> According to eBillme, the cash-based payment alternative, its fourth-
> quarter online spending index found that 46% of customers said they
> would step up their use of such methods to finance purchases.
All that proves is that there are lots of fools around. No news.
> The first-quarter index released this past week reported
> that 42% of consumers have used their credit cards less
> in the last 90 days in favor of noncredit payment options.
All that proves is that there are lots of fools around. No news.
> "The shift from credit toward cashlike options is the desire for
> consumers to control their financing," says Marwan Forzley, chief
> executive of eBillme. He sees "a clear shift in attitude" to pay as you go.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> Get Practical
> So does the Federal Reserve. In its most recent data, consumer credit
> fell at an annual rate of 3.75% in November. Revolving credit was down
> some 3.5%, while nonrevolving credit sank at an annual rate of 4%.
Thats what credit crunches produce, fool.
> Meanwhile, the most recent data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis
> showed that U.S. households increased their saving rate to 2.8% of their
> disposable income in November from less than 1% from 2005 to last April.
Thats what credit crunches produce, fool.
> That's good news. But though living on a cash-only basis
> may be healthy, it's not always practical. "There are cases
> when you absolutely need to use credit," says Mr. Forzley.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> Using credit cards to fund purchases isn't a bad thing. In fact, there
> are many positives to it that go beyond not having to carry wads of
> cash. One can build a good credit history, which in turn can make it
> easier to buy a home or car or to rent an apartment.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> And don't forget about all the perks that some credit cards offer, like
> redeemable mileage for air travel, hotel stays or a bevy of discounts.
> Some will even help pay for prescriptions and other health-related items.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> 'Big Challenge'
> But using credit cards to bankroll a lifestyle that's out of sync
> with your income could be destructive to your financial health.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> "If we keep postponing what we pay off, at what point does that crash?" asks Ms. Peter.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> She warns consumers who want to shift to cash to do it slowly. "It's
> a big challenge to change your habits," she says. Here are some tips:
Wota terminal fuckwit.
> Make a plan.
Go and fuck yourself.
> Use credit cards to get gas or big-ticket items, but commit to
> using cash when shopping for everything from food to clothes.
Wota terminal fuckwit.
> Make a budget before you shop.
Go and fuck yourself.
> If the fear is you'll carry too much cash, make multiple trips.
Wota terminal fuckwit. Thats only going to increase your costs, fuckwit.
> Trash the plastic. But do keep the debit card.
They're both plastic, fuckwit.
> Pay them off. If you keep any credit cards, pay them off in full each
> month. That's not a new idea, but sticking to that resolve achieves
> much the same result as using all cash without the drawbacks.
Must be another one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123284394918313137.html
What a useless steaming turd. Typical of the WSJ.
Too_Many_Tools
Actually this brings up the obvious question...what do you really
*NEED* a credit or debit card for?
Note there is a big difference between *NEED* and *WANT*.
Your thoughts?
TMT
John A. Weeks III
<1925c7ba-6af7-4d52...@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Actually this brings up the obvious question...what do you really
> *NEED* a credit or debit card for?
>
> Note there is a big difference between *NEED* and *WANT*.
>
> Your thoughts?
What do you need indoor plumbing for? There is a big difference
between need and want, but the conveniences of modern life make
living all that much more comfortable.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
h
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123284394918313137.html
>Actually this brings up the obvious question...what do you really
>*NEED* a credit or debit card for?
>Note there is a big difference between *NEED* and *WANT*.
I NEED a credit card for all of my purchases. I pay the balance in full once
a month, same as cash, but I don't have to go to the bank every day for
cash. I just click a few computer keys once a month and the entire bill is
paid.
90% of what I buy is for business use. It's out of state/online suppliers
and the post office since my business is 100% internet (I sell an actual,
hand-made product). If I had to go to the post office in person every day
I'd not only be out my time and gasoline, but the online purchase price is
less than the post office purchase price. Buying online with a credit card
saves me several hundred dollars a year plus carrier pickup saves me time
and gasoline. For personal shopping, remembering to go to the bank for cash
every time I need to go to the grocery store would be a total PITA.
Sure, I guess I could use the debit card, but then I'd need to make sure
that there was enough cash in the correct account every day, instead of one
day a month. Plus, there's the $750 I get back every year from the credit
card company for using the card, which I would lose if I paid cash or used a
debit card. Plus, you're protected when you use a credit card and have no
recourse with cash. I seriously don't get the appeal of cash.
That said, anyone who doesn't pay off their credit card every month is
really hurting themselves. Except...I did use a card with a "1.99% for the
life of the balance" once when I was expanding my office. I got the card,
wrote myself a check for $25,000, paid the $180 fee and took 2 years to pay
it off. That was WAAAY cheaper and easier than taking out a home equity loan
to finish the addition. The trick was to just never use the card again until
the full amount was paid off. I still get those checks in the mail every
month from the two credit cards I never use.
Dave Garland
> That said, anyone who doesn't pay off their credit card every month is
> really hurting themselves. Except...I did use a card with a "1.99% for the
> life of the balance" once when I was expanding my office. I got the card,
> wrote myself a check for $25,000, paid the $180 fee and took 2 years to pay
> it off. That was WAAAY cheaper and easier than taking out a home equity loan
> to finish the addition. The trick was to just never use the card again until
> the full amount was paid off.
The deal I took was 0% for the life of the balance. The gotcha was,
you need to make at least one purchase per month with the card, and
payments go toward the portion of the balance that's at the lowest
interest (0% vs 17% on purchases). I faithfully buy $0.75 of gasoline
on that card every month.
Dave
Rod Speed
The convenience of not having to fart around with cash.
> Note there is a big difference between *NEED* and *WANT*.
> Your thoughts?
That hardly anyone is actually silly enough to just have what they NEED.
josej...@ssnet.net
Weeks III" <jo...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
>What do you need indoor plumbing for?
So the social workers don't take your kids away.
Evelyn Leeper
If you travel, it is protection if your car breaks down and you need a
major repair. (Most repair shops will not take checks, at least from
people they don't know.)
It is almost impossible to rent a car without one.
Given that one can buy lots of things more frugally on-line, having a
credit card (but paying off the bill in full each month) is definitely
more frugal than not having a credit card. (Not to mention if you have
a card with a rebate.)
Rod Speed
> Although, keeping a credit card up one's sleeve in the event of
> unexpected expense may be prudent, the singular, invaluable,
> advantage to debit card vs credit card is precisely the discipline
> imposed by not being able to spend money that one does not
> actually have, forcing one to reassess his/her "needs".
Plenty of us arent stupid enough to need that.
>> Plus, there's the $750 I get back every year from
>> the credit card company for using the card, which
>> I would lose if I paid cash or used a debit card.
> It ain't necessarily so: Many institutions (banks) offer exactly
> the same sucker-bait "rewards" for signature (non-PIN) transactions on
> their "major label" debit card as they do credit cards. More reason to
> shop around.
> For example, if I use the "Visa"-branded debit card issued by
> Compass bank as a "signature" (not PIN) card, then I get the same
> rebate, FF miles, whatever, as I would with a credit card. Same with
> the "Visa"-branded debit card that is linked to my brokerage account.
> I know that because I am enrolled in the programs.
> "Major label" debit cards have no fewer "protections" than "major
> label" credit cards. I know that because I have had the experience to
> challenge (several) transactions via the issuing bank. In each case,
> the amount in question was credited to my checking account by close of
> business (well, posting time) of same day and before the issue was
> resolved. Compass bank (in Florida, at least) even offers to "get your
> money back" on the strength of a telephoned verbal declaration -- no
> paperwork required. It is important for (honest) consumers to know
> that the merchant always, always, always is assumed to be "in the
> wrong" and takes the financial hit until the issue is resolved; many
> merchants will simply issue an automatic refund to avoid the bs. I
> know _that_ because I do credit/debit card business and I will
> automatically issue a refund unless the dollar amount is more than
> I'm willing to cede to a thief. Regardless of what the untrained
> Walmart (for example) minions may assert, it is as easy to reverse a
> "major label" debit card transaction as it is a credit card
> transaction and it does NOT take "three days", "three weeks", or
> whatever other bullshit they may say for the money to reappear in
> one's account: Excepting weekends, it takes exactly until posting
> time (usually midnite) of the day the refund is issued. I always
> seems strange to me that the untrained dilberts at WallyWorld and
> Home Desperate don't know how to issue debit card refunds, claiming
> the process to be impossible, while the at least minimally-trained
> dilberts at Walgreen's, Publix or the local nurseryman have no
> problem at all doing so.
SpammersDie
"Derald" <der...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:UZidnfVFT8Ow2ePU...@earthlink.com...
> Although, keeping a credit card up one's sleeve in the event of
> unexpected expense may be prudent, the singular, invaluable, advantage
> to debit card vs credit card is precisely the discipline imposed by not
> being able to spend money that one does not actually have, forcing one
> to reassess his/her "needs".
Provided you're sure the debit card won't let you "spend money you don't
have."
Banks are well on to this sort of thinking and routinely offer "courtesy
overdrafts." Overcharge your account and you won't get declined. The bank
will quietly issue you a high interest overdraft loan.
Using a debit card does not give you "discipline" at all. It's a crutch to
over the lack of discipline, and this crutch is defective by design.
SMS
Discover had a deal like that a few years ago, which included no-fee
balance transfers. So I took $30K out of my HELOC then let Discover pay
off the HELOC, and I put the $30K into 5% CDs. I have to make two $1
purchases per month at the regular interest rate to keep the 0% on the
rest. $1 out of the gas pump twice a month takes care of that.
Years ago I had a credit union Visa card that let you do no-fee balance
transfers and they gave you "points" (for airline tickets) on these
transfers. That didn't last too long before they realized what people
were doing.
h
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:O%Hfl.16306$c45....@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
But, probably 50% or more of the people who use these "teaser rate" checks
carry a balance on the card. They pay off the teaser rate balance fairly
quickly and the card issuer is back to making their 21%, or whatever the
rates are these days.