How Many Credit Cards Do You Need??
Alec
As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
I have closed all the store cards except for Sears. I don't
have any logical reason for keeping Sears except that it was
my very first credit card.
I am thinking of closing my Texaco and Chevron accounts.
All the gas stations in this area take ATM cards, Master
card and Visa. Is this true in all areas of the country or
should I keep the gas station cards for travel?
Besides the gas station cards I still have Sears, 2 Master
cards, 2 Visas, Discover and AMEX. I was thinking of
keeping 2 cards. One card for everyday expenditures when
you don't have cash and don't feel like carrying the check
book, and 1 cards for emergencies. Such as blew the engine
on the car.
I got so many cards by taking advantage of offers such as
10% or low interest rate. Some cards continue to make
offers. For instance Eddie Bauer offers 10% on certain days
to current card holders - not just new applications.
I work a lot of hours and like to spend my free time
relaxing and not keeping current on which card has the best
deal this week.
Alec
Steve Crisp
Alec wrote:
>
> As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
> wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
>
> At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
> cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
> Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
And all completely voluntary actions on your part.
Steve Crisp
al...@webtv.net
I cut up some of my cards too. The gas cards,
'cuz in CA Shell and Texaco are higher priced and yes, most places take
Visa or MC.
I don't keep any card that charges an annual
fee. Another reason not to have too many cards active is you have to
write too many checks and mail too many envelopes (an
expense--something we tightwads try to avoid)
also my bank limits the number of free (no service charge) checks per
month.
LLBean will give you free delivery if you have
their MBNA card.
But I let them sell me on any lo , lo interest rate
like 5.9, or I even had one at zero interest for three months once. I
just write the courtesy check to pay off the high balance, high
interest rate card (like for my new Webtv) and when the lo interest
rate
expires, I use the next guy's to pay THEM off.
It pays for a lot of pizzas.
Will Bell
In a previous article, al...@cts.com wrote:
>As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
>wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
Gas credit cards and most department store and specialty retailer cards
offer nothing except an extra bill to have to pay every month. Put
your gas purchases on a 1% rebate card instead and get free money. A
dollar a month beats what you were getting before (nothing).
There are exceptions to the above, of course. CompUSA, for instance,
offers 6 month no interest on any purchase. Foley's sends out
catalogs and fliers to cardholders plus some great 10% off coupons
every now and then.
>Besides the gas station cards I still have Sears, 2 Master
>cards, 2 Visas, Discover and AMEX. I was thinking of
>keeping 2 cards. One card for everyday expenditures when
>you don't have cash and don't feel like carrying the check
>book, and 1 cards for emergencies. Such as blew the engine
>on the car.
Now that we have gotten nearly all our former credit card debt out of
our life, we plan to operate with 1 card, the great Toys R Us card and
use it exclusively. I don't even see a need to have two cards unless
you intend to carry a balance on one (or if your cards have relatively
low credit limits).
--
Will Bell -- wbb at netcom dot com -- DeepinahartaTexas
Remove spaces and pluses from email address to reply.
BD
Steve Crisp wrote in article <33ECB2...@pageplanet.com>...
>Alec wrote:
>>
>> As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
>> wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
>>
>> At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
>> cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
>> Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
>
>And all completely voluntary actions on your part.
DUH... Talk about having the knack for stating the "I don't have a brain"
obvious...
I was in a similar position a few yrs ago.. I had 'racked up' about $10,000
on several cards.. Without 'em, I'd have had to declare bankruptcy or
something (temporarily lost a large part of my income), so they were a
life-saver for me, but...
*ONE* Visa's all I've got now. Forget the visa debit-card..TOO dangerous..
If it's stolen, you're outta luck!
By charging everything to the card and paying it off at the end of the mnth,
I also maximize the interest I make off my bank-account...
X
BD wrote in article <5sjtec$l...@lepton.startext.net>...
> Steve Crisp wrote in article <33ECB2...@pageplanet.com>...
>
>
>DUH... Talk about having the knack for stating the "I don't have a brain"
>obvious...
>
>I was in a similar position a few yrs ago.. I had 'racked up' about $10,000
>on several cards.. Without 'em, I'd have had to declare bankruptcy or
>something (temporarily lost a large part of my income), so they were a
>life-saver for me, but...
>*ONE* Visa's all I've got now. Forget the visa debit-card..TOO dangerous..
>If it's stolen, you're outta luck!
>By charging everything to the card and paying it off at the end of the
mnth,
>I also maximize the interest I make off my bank-account..
Exactly.
It's best to charge only what you can pay off in the next billing cycle
(unless the card was used for an emergency). I have charged thousands on my
Visa Platinum without paying one cent of interest. Other credit card
companies out there are hounding me to have their cards also. Don't they
know that they'll make no money off of me.
So what if using certain credit cards gives discounts off the purchase price
or the item bought was on sale. If the monthly balance isn't paid off
entirely, then the discount means nothing as you begin to pay massive
interest for the spending spree.
One major credit card is plenty, and it's accepted most anywhere. People
need to remember that a credit card doesn't mean "free money". Abuse it, and
you will pay dearly for misuse.
>
>
>
Bruce or Tracy
Sounds reasonable to me that you would keep as many credit cards as
you feel you can pay-off if you charge to them. No reason to keep
Gas station credit cards, since you can usually pay for gas with MC or
Visa. I personally would never own an AMEX.
Bruce
Alec wrote:
>
> As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
> wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
>
> At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
> cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
> Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
>
> I have closed all the store cards except for Sears. I don't
> have any logical reason for keeping Sears except that it was
> my very first credit card.
>
> I am thinking of closing my Texaco and Chevron accounts.
> All the gas stations in this area take ATM cards, Master
> card and Visa. Is this true in all areas of the country or
> should I keep the gas station cards for travel?
>
> Besides the gas station cards I still have Sears, 2 Master
> cards, 2 Visas, Discover and AMEX. I was thinking of
> keeping 2 cards. One card for everyday expenditures when
> you don't have cash and don't feel like carrying the check
> book, and 1 cards for emergencies. Such as blew the engine
> on the car.
>
Alec
X wrote:
> Exactly.
> It's best to charge only what you can pay off in the next
> billing cycle
> (unless the card was used for an emergency). I have
> charged thousands on my
> Visa Platinum without paying one cent of interest. Other
> credit card
> companies out there are hounding me to have their cards
> also. Don't they
> know that they'll make no money off of me.
>
> So what if using certain credit cards gives discounts off
> the purchase price
> or the item bought was on sale. If the monthly balance
> isn't paid off
> entirely, then the discount means nothing as you begin to
> pay massive
> interest for the spending spree.
>
> One major credit card is plenty, and it's accepted most
> anywhere. People
> need to remember that a credit card doesn't mean "free
> money". Abuse it, and
> you will pay dearly for misuse.
I always pay my balances off the end of the month. I just
got this habbit of carrying a lot of cards. So my problem
isn't with paying them. My problem is keeping track of what
is due and on what day. I get bombared with too much mail.
I get personal and business mail at home and at the office.
So I tend to take all the mail and toss it into a pile. Then
every week I am sorting through important mail and junk
mail.. I would like to have maybe 5 payments: House, car,
gas@ electric, cable, credit card, oh yeah then there is
water and trash and cell phone. Well the cable company is
talking about getting into the local phone market and is
already providing internet access....
It isn't a money issue. It is a time issue. Life was so
much simpler in college. Paid the rent, phone, electric and
that was about it.
Deborah Stevenson
>I always pay my balances off the end of the month. I just
>got this habbit of carrying a lot of cards. So my problem
>isn't with paying them. My problem is keeping track of what
>is due and on what day.
I realize this won't effect the *number* of bills you get, but you
certainly can request a change of billing date for just about everything
but the rent. I've changed phone bill due dates (both LD and local, I
believe) and 2 credit-card due dates. The response across the board was
"sure, no problem, be aware it won't kick in this billing cycle." The
net result is I don't forget what things are due when because they all go
at once.
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Enid Yvonne Karr
In <33edf109....@news.earthlink.net> toddh...@not.earthlink.net
(toddh) writes:
>The store cards are a complete waste of plastic and wallet-space.
>ToddH
>Copyright(c) 1997
Perhaps they are today... back in the early 80's they were
a way to get a start on credit. They were easier
to get than a major credit card, and once you had
one used reponsibly for a year you could probably
get a MC or VISA.
But heck, now I hear they're handing out major
credit cards to sheep and gerbils, it isn't a hard
thing to get one anymore!
Enid
BD
I have Quicken with Checkfree.... I'm the type who used to never have any
idea where the $$ was going.. I'd get a paycheck and send off what bills I
could afford to pay, and 'party' on the rest..
Nowdays, I usually know up to two mnths in advance, almost exactly what my
bank-balance will be... Some over-time here-n-there and other small expences
effect things a little, but paying bills's actually FUN now..<grin>
I also got a bank-loan and paid everything off a yr or two ago.
Higher interest (I was a 'bad risk' at the time, due to the 'spread out
nature' of my various debts) but because I could see the total-balance in
one figure, I had more of an incentive to pay it off quicker!
Alec wrote in article <33EDF5B6...@cts.com>...>
>I always pay my balances off the end of the month. I just
>got this habbit of carrying a lot of cards. So my problem
>isn't with paying them. My problem is keeping track of what
Maria Rost Rublee
Just a few comments on the thread.
First, I would highly recommend you have at least 2 major cards. If one
doesn't work (the bank's lines are down, etc), you have another just in
case. Your payment could have gotten lost and some pencil-pusher at the
bnk could have put a hold on your card. Who knows? It's better to be
safe than sorry. This has actually happened to me, twice (the bank's line
being down).
Second, are store cards worthwhile? I think some are. I have a Macy's
card soley because I get early notice of sales and good coupons. They'll
have a great sale on Gold Toe socks, plus I'll get a 20% off coupon...that
makes it worthwhile to me.
Third, is there any harm in having lots of credit cards? Well, it
depends...if you are applying for a large loan, there is. Banks compute
open lines of credit as potential debt,since you theoretically could go
out tomorrow and run all your cards up. We were told that when we apply
for a mortage, we should make sure we've closed most of our cards a few
months before.
I have a lot of cards because of the benefits they provide. I have 2
cards just because of the great airline vouchers I get (they are student
credit cards). I have my Discover so I can write large checks if I want,
without having to pay interest (since I'll pay it off immediately). There
is a small transaction fee, but that's worth it to me for the peace of
mind it can give. (Like a security deposit on a rental...if they decide
not to rent you the place, but run with your security deposit, what can
you do? If you use a credit card check, though, you have protection.)
Just my 2c.
Maria
Russell Turpin
-*-------
In article <33eef532...@news.mindspring.com>,
<unid...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> ... forget about the ATM cards - too dangerous, I only use mine
> to access my bank's ATM and nothing else!
Debit cards are even worse, because many do not require a PIN to
be used. In theory, when they are stolen, your liability is
limited just as it is with a credit card. Consider an important
difference: With a credit card, the money is still in your money
market account, earning interest, while you hassle with the
financial institution to get the fraudulent charges removed.
With a debit card, the money is in *their* account until you
prevail!
I have always found that it is far easier to keep money than to
get it back. (This actually applies to a lot of things in life
besides money: fitness, friends, lovers, ... )
Russell
--
An atheist doesn't have to be someone who thinks he has a proof that
there can't be a god. He only has to be someone who believes that
the evidence on the God question is at a similar level to the evidence
on the werewolf question. -- John McCarthy
Brian L. Matthews
In article <5skeo2$d...@snews5.zippo.com>, X <gospam@yourself> wrote:
|Don't they know that they'll make no money off of me.
While I agree that carrying a balance on a credit card is usually foolish,
not doing so doesn't mean they won't make money off of you. Every time
you use a credit card, the merchant pays between 1 and 5% of the amount
you charge to their bank for processing the transaction. I don't have any
figures (but would love to see some if anyone has any) but suspect the
amount the card companies make on each transaction is far more than they
make on consumer interest.
|One major credit card is plenty, and it's accepted most anywhere.
I mostly agree with this. However, being the paranoid sort I am, I
contemplate some computer glitch or something making Visa (for example)
decide they don't like me any more. Thus I have a MasterCard and Discover
card. I figure it's fairly unlikely that all three will decide they don't
like me at the same time, and none of the cards have a yearly fee, so it
costs me very little to keep them.
Brian
BD
In NY? Here in Texas, atleast, Macy's was the last place one would go to for
frugal-buys... 20% off would bring the price down to about 2x what you could
get the same things (not the same ego-boosting brands, maybe, but better
quality in most cases) for at any of the local discount/dept stores.
Maria Rost Rublee wrote in article <5slacq$7p...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>...>
Alec
BD wrote:
> I have Quicken with Checkfree.... I'm the type who used to
> never have any
> idea where the $$ was going.. I'd get a paycheck and send
> off what bills I
> could afford to pay, and 'party' on the rest..
> Nowdays, I usually know up to two mnths in advance, almost
> exactly what my
> bank-balance will be... Some over-time here-n-there and
> other small expences
> effect things a little, but paying bills's actually FUN
> now..<grin>
> I also got a bank-loan and paid everything off a yr or two
> ago.
> Higher interest (I was a 'bad risk' at the time, due to
> the 'spread out
> nature' of my various debts) but because I could see the
> total-balance in
> one figure, I had more of an incentive to pay it off
> quicker!
I was using Microsoft Money for a while. It does help some
but not that much. All you save is buying stamps. You have
to record the transaction somehow. Either your check book
register or the one on the computer. You still have to find
your receipts every month and compare them to the
statement. I have also wasted more time than I saved.
There is always one or two companies that have a real
problem not getting the payment stub. It takes GTE Mobilnet
2 to 5 weeks to credit my account even though all the
information is included on the check issued by Wells
Online. So every month I got a past due notice from them,
every month a GTE financial services droid would call me at
work and every month I had to tell them that my check
cleared 3 weeks ago and it ws THEIR PROBLEM and not mine.
I don't understand WHY they need the stub. I agreed to pay
off a loan for my ex-wife. Even though I used Well On-line
and didn't send in the payment stub, the payment was always
credited on time. The last names aren't the same ether.
She had gone back to her maiden name.
Mark Atwood
"X" <gospam@yourself> writes:
> It's best to charge only what you can pay off in the next billing cycle
> (unless the card was used for an emergency). I have charged thousands on my
> Visa Platinum without paying one cent of interest. Other credit card
> know that they'll make no money off of me.
Oh they make money off of you.. They make the 2% of your charge they
don't pay the merchant (unless they are AmEx, then they make the *4%*
they don't pay the merchant).
--
Mark Atwood | Thank you gentlemen, you are everything we have come to
z...@ampersand.com | expect from years of government training. -- MIB Zed
Mel
There is one other little consideration in this thread that is worth
mentioning. Automatic payment. I use one credit card, and I have arranged
that the total charge is automatically deducted from my checking
account on a due date. Not only is it paid on time, but I am saved the
time, bother,and even the cost of mailing. I have a couple of other credit
cards, but as a rule I won't take, or use, a card where I have to mail in
the due amount.
Also, it comes as no news to me that the bank is still making money on
me even when I pay off without paying interest. I look at it the other way
around however. The merchant is overcharging the people who pay cash by
that 2-5% If they gave me that discount I would pay them the cash instead
of putting the charge on my card.
al...@webtv.net
SteveCrisp wrote that last year he had 22 cards and now he's down to
just a few; bodu says (s)he's down to just one.
I keep one card with a high credit limit JUST
for emergencies. It's like a no cost insurance
policy...I've always got money ...for a car breakdown...medical...a trip
I have to take suddenly...It gives me a nice secure feeling.
al...@webtv.net
Alec says all his mail goes into one pile and the bills get lost, and
it's confusing.
Try sorting the mail as you read it--at least that part of it...if it's
a bill, pull itout from the accompanying ads , get the envelope for the
bill and put them (bill & envelope) in a big fat clip. Do this all
month.
Then once a month get 'em out and write checks for all of them, put
them in their respective envelopes and next to the stamp
write the due date on the envelope. Then at a
glance you know by what date you have to get it in the mail.
al...@webtv.net
(X) wrote (s)he never lets a credit charge go over one cycle therefore
never has ever paid interest. That's a good practice. I pay my
full balances every month too and when I kept it up for over a year,
two of my card companies started to hassle me and threatened to start
charging an annual fee. They are now two of my FORMER card companies.
BD
That's not been my experience at all, using Checkfree in Quicken...
Nearly all payments are paid on the date they are scheduled.. The only
exception is my mortgage which seems to 'have a life of its' own'...
A few weeks ago, I happened to be up at 2am on the date of a rather large
payment and decided to call the automated line that the company line has,
and... The payment had actually already went thru! Less than 2hrs into the
day.
Checkfree's been a life-saver for me. I'd probably still be way over my head
in debt if it weren't for all the 'pretty graphs' and such that it offers.
lec wrote in article <33EE4BAF...@cts.com>...>
Maria Rost Rublee
BD (bo...@juno.com) wrote:
: In NY? Here in Texas, atleast, Macy's was the last place one would go to for
We don't buy Gold Toe socks for ego boosting, don't worry! (That brings a
very funny mental image to mind...my husband taking his shoes off in a
meeting and putting his feet up on the table so everyone can see that he
wears Gold Toe socks!) He has tried just about ever brand of sock
available and the cheap ones are NOT frugal. He walks to work and those
discount store socks wear holes in two weeks. Only the Gold Toe hold
together. So when Gold Toes go on sale, and we get the 20% off, they are
like $3 a pair....a really good deal for socks that last years.
At least at the Macys around here, you can get some very good buys. It's
easy to say, "That's a snooty dept. store, I'll never find anything
inexpensive in there." I used to say that about Macys until I actually
went and looked. The first great buy I got there was a pair of wonderful
Bill Blass jeans, fit perfectly and felt great, only $14.99. I still wear
them, over 2 years later, and they still look great. (I wear jeans 4-5
days a week.) If only I had had a macys card then, I would have gotten
another 20% off! :)
I could tell similar stories about bras, socks, turtlenecks, shoes when
they go on sale (italian leather boots for $20), men's casual wear...Macys
is a great place to shop if you know what to look for and buy only on
sale. I pay less for stuff than I would at Walmart, and the quality is
incomparably better.
Maria
Elaine from Maine
If you pay your cc bill in full every month, it won't matter which card has
the best interest rate <grin>
I used to have three cards - a MC, a Visa and a Discover. Since I hadn't
used the MC for a couple years and I was looking to buy a house, I got rid
of it. What does buying a house have to do with anything? When looking
over a person's credit, their ability to run up cc debt can be a serious
detriment to their ability to get a house loan.
Now I have just the Discover - on which I earn money - and the Visa for
those few places which don't accept Discover.
Elaine from Maine
Ilana Stern
Mark Atwood wrote:
> Oh they make money off of you.. They make the 2% of your charge they
> don't pay the merchant (unless they are AmEx, then they make the *4%*
> they don't pay the merchant).
I have read that because of administrative cost, the break-even
point (from the card issuer's point of view) for a customer who
pays in full each month on a no-fee credit card is about $1500/year
in charges.
Bill Rubin
Maria Rost Rublee wrote:
>
> Second, are store cards worthwhile? I think some are. I have a Macy's
> card soley because I get early notice of sales and good coupons. They'll
> have a great sale on Gold Toe socks, plus I'll get a 20% off coupon...that
> makes it worthwhile to me.
Yes, Macy's does send out good coupons from time to time, although they
typically only send 10% varieties here in NY. I agree that it is good to
have store cards, unfortunately they sometimes decide only to send their
sale catalogs to active accounts, which means that you actually have to
USE them to get the mailings. I prefer to use my Mastercard which I get
a rebate on, so I almost never use my store cards. Fortunately, Macy's
still considers us active and sends us circulars. Filene's, which for a
while kept marking us as inactive (and forcing me to use my card which
they invariably lost my payments on when paid electronically) has
finally wised up and sends us circulars (and coupons). Nordstrom's, the
last people I would expect it of, only sent their recent yearly
pre-season sale circular to active credit card customers. This means I
missed the first pre-public advertisement week of the sale. I was really
surprised that we did not get a notice from them, since in the past
they'd sent us both the circular, as well as post cards from the kids
clothing and shoe departments to remind us of the sale. Maybe I will
have to use my Nordie's card once to get back in their good graces.
> Third, is there any harm in having lots of credit cards? Well, it
> depends...if you are applying for a large loan, there is. Banks compute
> open lines of credit as potential debt,since you theoretically could go
> out tomorrow and run all your cards up. We were told that when we apply
> for a mortage, we should make sure we've closed most of our cards a few
> months before.
As has been discussed in other threads, this is a bank by bank thing.
When I refinanced my mortgage a couple of years ago, I was told that my
bank did NOT care about my available credit, only the outstanding
amount.
Bill
Susan Hough
Maria Rost Rublee (mru...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:
: Just a few comments on the thread.
:
: First, I would highly recommend you have at least 2 major cards. If one
: doesn't work (the bank's lines are down, etc), you have another just in
: case. Your payment could have gotten lost and some pencil-pusher at the
Also, there was one occasion when we had to pay for the kids' summer
camp early to get a sizeable 'earlybird' discount: we put it on one
Visa/MC card, then wrote a check to transfer it (fee-free) to our
2nd Visa/MC card when the bill came. By the time the 2nd bill had to
be paid, it actually ended up being after the kids had attended the camp.
Normally we pay all the cards off each month, but this was a healthy
expense, and we made a few bucks keeping the money in a CD account for
a couple of months.
I can't see why you'd need more than 2 general credit cards, though.
: Second, are store cards worthwhile? I think some are. I have a Macy's
I get some of them just because they offer a one-time discount coupon.
Last year before Christmas, I got 15% off a big purchase of gifts, including
one video game my son wanted that was never going to be put on sale, using
a Target certificate.
: Third, is there any harm in having lots of credit cards? Well, it
: depends...if you are applying for a large loan, there is. Banks compute
My one fear is the hassle I'd have to go through, if my wallet were
lost/stolen. Which reminds me...time to go update that list I keep, of
all the 800 phone numbers I'd have to call...
Sue
Wendy Joplin
Maria Rost Rublee wrote:
>
> Just a few comments on the thread.
>
> want,
> without having to pay interest (since I'll pay it off immediately).
> There
> is a small transaction fee, but that's worth it to me for the peace of
> mind it can give. (Like a security deposit on a rental...if they
> decide
> not to rent you the place, but run with your security deposit, what
> can
> you do? If you use a credit card check, though, you have protection.)
>
> Just my 2c.
>
Excellent advice. Thanks
Wendy
Crystal
I would like to add something on the subject of the effect of lots of
available credit on mortgage loans. I used to process mortgage loans, so
I have some basis for my comment :) Outstanding debt is used in making
conventional lending decisions, e.g. a mortgage loan that is underwritten
by a bank. Available debt is used in determining eligibility for FHA
loans. For VA loans, not only do the underwriters consider available
debt, but they also consider hypothetical car payments even if your
current auto is paid for! We mostly did FHA loans, and we also
calculated typical utility bills, HOA dues and the like for the
underwriters.
Crystal
P.S. Amex was on all the credit reports I pulled, but here's something
scary - the credit reporting service used by many mortgage loan
processors pulls your credit report by last name and zip code. As you
might expect, they're frequently wrong.
Chrissy
This might seem more like miscellaneous revenge than frugal living,
but I think in this case, the two are intertwined for me.
I work in an industry that pushes A LOT of paper. And because I cannot
STAND to see so much waste, I always do my best to be conscientious. I
keep mailing lists up to date, use paper over and over, etc. I am
bothered by the amount of waste that is generated, however, so it has
deeply affected how I deal with paper/mail/waste at home.
In my personal life, I am intolerant of offers from companies who are
contantly offering new cards, insurance programs, hot deals, etc. I
printed up a set of sticky labels that say "Return to Sender: Stop
Mass Marketing!" I affix the label over my address and drop the junk
mail back in the mail box.
If I am feeling particularly mean (which happens from time to time!)
and I know there is a postage-paid envelope inside of a junk mailing,
I open the mail up, rip everything to shreds, except the postage-paid
envelope, put the confetti inside of the envelope and pop in back in
the mail. I am toying with the idea of attaching postage-paid
envelopes to cinder blocks and mailing them back, but I don't know if
cinder blocks conform to post office regulations.
Anyway, this may seem like a far stretch from frugal-living, but part
of living frugally to me is simplicity. I hate to produce so much
garbage each week. I am not deluding myself, however: I know that
someone will be throwing away my returned mail. I know that you can
contact an agency which helps to stop junk mail flow, but it only
works for a little while. I am hoping that in the meantime, these
companies will take my name off of their lists and stop
selling/renting my name. We'll see.
Chrissy
to respond, remove the spamblock spam.be.gone.
Gustav Akk
In article <33EF68...@ncar.ucar.edu>,
What I don't quite understand is - who gets the 2%. Visa or my bank?
Gustav
Brian L. Matthews
In article <5so67l$f...@cardinal1.Stanford.EDU>,
Gustav Akk <gus...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
|What I don't quite understand is - who gets the 2%. Visa or my bank?
The bank gets it initially, then passes on some portion of it to Visa
(or whoever).
Brian
Scott L. Nishimura
In article <5sjtec$l...@lepton.startext.net>, "BD" <bo...@juno.com> wrote:
> Steve Crisp wrote in article <33ECB2...@pageplanet.com>...
>
> >Alec wrote:
> >>
> >> As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
> >> wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
> >>
> >> At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
> >> cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
> >> Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
> >
> >And all completely voluntary actions on your part.
>
> DUH... Talk about having the knack for stating the "I don't have a brain"
> obvious...
>
> I was in a similar position a few yrs ago.. I had 'racked up' about $10,000
> on several cards.. Without 'em, I'd have had to declare bankruptcy or
> something (temporarily lost a large part of my income), so they were a
> life-saver for me, but...
> *ONE* Visa's all I've got now. Forget the visa debit-card..TOO dangerous..
> If it's stolen, you're outta luck!
> By charging everything to the card and paying it off at the end of the mnth,
> I also maximize the interest I make off my bank-account...
You might also want to consider getting a Discover card if you pay your
balances off every month. Discover gives you cash back so I try to
charge everything on it rather than Visa. However, Discover doesn't
seem to be as generous with credit limits as Visa/MC.
Scott
Barbara
Enid Yvonne Karr wrote:
>
> In <33edf109....@news.earthlink.net> toddh...@not.earthlink.net
> (toddh) writes:
>
> >The store cards are a complete waste of plastic and wallet-space.
> >ToddH
> >Copyright(c) 1997
>
> Perhaps they are today... back in the early 80's they were
> a way to get a start on credit. They were easier
> to get than a major credit card, and once you had
> one used reponsibly for a year you could probably
> get a MC or VISA.
>
Reasons to have store credit cards:
A lot of stores give you x% off your purchase if you sign up for one of
their cards. I am never adverse to saving money; you don't have to
actually USE the card after that first time.
Some stores also send coupons to their credit card customers. Every
couple of years, a now-defunct department store used to send me a letter
saying that they missed me, and enclosing a coupon for 25 or 40 percent
off any single item in the store if I used their credit card.
At least one menswear store gives you a $50 gift certificate every time
your cumulative purchases on their card totals $500. They will also
press any suit purchased on their charge card, free of charge for the
life of the suit.
Barbara
Barbara
Enid Yvonne Karr wrote:
>
> In <33edf109....@news.earthlink.net> toddh...@not.earthlink.net
> (toddh) writes:
>
> >The store cards are a complete waste of plastic and wallet-space.
> >ToddH
> >Copyright(c) 1997
>
> Perhaps they are today... back in the early 80's they were
> a way to get a start on credit. They were easier
> to get than a major credit card, and once you had
> one used reponsibly for a year you could probably
> get a MC or VISA.
>
SNIP
Reasons to have store credit cards:
A lot of stores give you x% off your purchase if you sign up for one of
their cards. I am never adverse to saving money; you don't have to
actually USE the card after that first time.
Some stores also send coupons to their credit card customers. Every
couple of years, a now-defunct department store used to send me a letter
saying that they missed me, and enclosing a coupon for 25 or 40 percent
off any single item in the store if I used their credit card.
Barbara
Valerie Ohm
On 10 Aug 1997 21:04:26 GMT, Maria Rost Rublee <mru...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>Second, are store cards worthwhile? I think some are. I have a Macy's
>card soley because I get early notice of sales and good coupons.
My sole store card is from a local department store. Though I've given
up using the card (just another bill and the store takes Visa anyways),
I occasionally get an "N% off everything all day" card in the mail -
combined with the clearance rack actully brings the cost of clothing
(NEW clothing, though slightly out of season) in line with thrift store
prices.
-valerie
--
Valerie Ohm --------------------------------- 362 Engineering/Theory Center
val...@ee.cornell.edu --------------- Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
------------------------------------------------------------ (607) 255-0321
Annette C. Hollmann
In article <scott.nishimura.no_s...@slnishimura.sp.trw.com> scott.nishi...@trw.com (Scott L. Nishimura) writes:
>
>You might also want to consider getting a Discover card if you pay your
>balances off every month. Discover gives you cash back so I try to
>charge everything on it rather than Visa. However, Discover doesn't
>seem to be as generous with credit limits as Visa/MC.
If you pay off your balance every month, Discover won't touch you with a
ten-foot pole. I tried to get a Discover card when my Southwestern Bell
rebate card instituted a $50 annual penalty for not carrying a balance.
Discover turned me down, stating that one must be carrying balances on two
other lines of revolving credit to qualify for a Discover card.
Annette
Allison Wolf
In article <33ECEFCE...@cts.com>, Alec <al...@cts.com> wrote:
>As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
>wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
I've kept mine to two -- a Visa and an AmEx (like a couple others,
I'm a student, and the deal on plane tickets saves me more than I
pay for the annual fees). I keep the second card for emergencies
that I couldn't easily pay off at the end of the month.
At the very least, you can save money on stamps and checks by cancelling
some of those cards. :)
>At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
>cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
>Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
>
>I have closed all the store cards except for Sears. I don't
>have any logical reason for keeping Sears except that it was
>my very first credit card.
This is probably a good idea for the reasons I gave above.
>I am thinking of closing my Texaco and Chevron accounts.
>All the gas stations in this area take ATM cards, Master
>card and Visa. Is this true in all areas of the country or
>should I keep the gas station cards for travel?
As far as I've seen, most of the places that don't take
Mastercard or Visa don't offer credit cards either.....
we have some weird little chains out here.
>Besides the gas station cards I still have Sears, 2 Master
>cards, 2 Visas, Discover and AMEX. I was thinking of
>keeping 2 cards. One card for everyday expenditures when
>you don't have cash and don't feel like carrying the check
>book, and 1 cards for emergencies. Such as blew the engine
>on the car.
Unless you're getting some good special deals off of AMEX
(such as the student plane tix), I'd keep one Mastercard
and one Visa. There are a lot of places that don't take Discover
or AMEX -- especially AMEX, which apparently charges retailers
an arm and a leg....
--
Allison Wolf, (math grad)
Emory University, Atlanta, GA
Internet: all...@mathcs.emory.edu
UUCP: {rutgers,gatech}!emory!allison
Maria Rost Rublee
Allison Wolf (all...@mathcs.emory.edu) wrote:
: In article <33ECEFCE...@cts.com>, Alec <al...@cts.com> wrote:
: >As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
: >wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
: I've kept mine to two -- a Visa and an AmEx (like a couple others,
: I'm a student, and the deal on plane tickets saves me more than I
: pay for the annual fees). I keep the second card for emergencies
: that I couldn't easily pay off at the end of the month.
I strongly suggest you convert your AmEx to an Optima, or drop the AmEx
green and get the Optima student card (whichever way you'd like to phrase
it). I get the airline deals as well, with the student Optima....and of
course there's no annual fee on the Optima. Another perk with the student
Optima is 30 minutes free calling card time each month (comes out to $8.50
a month).
As far as I know, the benefits to students are exactly the same with AmEx
green and AmEx Optima....with the only difference being you pay for the
AmEx green and NOT for the Optima. (And yes, I know, you can carry a
balance on the Optima, but that's a side issue to me.)
At the very least you could check it out, maybe you can save $50 a year or
whatever the annual fee is.
Maria
Gary Klauber
In article <33EDF5B6...@cts.com>, Alec <al...@cts.com> says:
>It isn't a money issue. It is a time issue. Life was so
>much simpler in college. Paid the rent, phone, electric and
>that was about it.
Many mortgage companies, gas, electric, & telephone companies
will debit your checking account on a prearranged day of the month. You
still get bills (except mortgage) to remind you how much to deduct from
your checkbook on the appointed day. Also, direct deposit of your salary
simplifies things. I've never had a problem, since I always have enough
cash in my checking account to cover anything.
The credit cards that I only use once in a blue moon (e.g. Lord & Taylor)
I don't carry; I keep in an old wallet in my desk at home. My everyday
Visa gives me a 1% rebate on groceries at the Giant Food chain (DC
area - 3% on Giant purchases), with no annual fee, and I pay up in 30 days.
I even pay my Visa using the night deposit slot of the local bank that
issues the Giant Food Visa - Chevy Chase Bank. Hey, stamps are nearly
three for a dollar!
---
Gary M. Klauber
catlady
Chrissy wrote:
>
>
> If I am feeling particularly mean (which happens from time to time!)
> and I know there is a postage-paid envelope inside of a junk mailing,
> I open the mail up, rip everything to shreds, except the postage-paid
> envelope, put the confetti inside of the envelope and pop in back in
> the mail. I am toying with the idea of attaching postage-paid
> envelopes to cinder blocks and mailing them back, but I don't know if
> cinder blocks conform to post office regulations.
>
> Anyway, this may seem like a far stretch from frugal-living, but part
> of living frugally to me is simplicity. I hate to produce so much
> garbage each week. I am not deluding myself, however: I know that
> someone will be throwing away my returned mail. I know that you can
> contact an agency which helps to stop junk mail flow, but it only
> works for a little while. I am hoping that in the meantime, these
> companies will take my name off of their lists and stop
> selling/renting my name. We'll see.
>
> Chrissy
> to respond, remove the spamblock spam.be.gone.
excellent! now if it only worked for e-mail :>
--
=^@@^= =^@@^= =^@@^= =^@@^= =^@@^=
gently remove the =^**^= from my address and add prodigy.net to send
e-mail...i like my spam fried, not mailed
dogs are very simple-minded: if you're weaker than they are, they try to
eat you; if you're stronger, they lick your boots
----charles pratt
###################################################################
Enid Yvonne Karr
Does this really digust you all the way it
disgusts me to the core? Now, I'm not naive...
even my 6 year old knows and will state 'The purpose
of a business is to make money'. But considering
the hurt that debt and bankruptcy cause people,
encouraging the accrual of debt to this extreme
(won't issue you a card if you pay off your
balance every month) is sick, sick sick. Gee,
I must be getting old. I remember the days when prompt
payment of your bills gave you a GOOD credit rating,
and made you a VALUED customer. Sigh.
Considering the obsene rate on cards these days,
policies like this are going to cause a lot of
people a lot of pain. I feel this move on the
part of credit companies is revolting.... and
maybe we should be, too!
Enid
In <5ssgvl$i...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> ah69...@bcm.tmc.edu (Annette C.
Elizabeth H.
In article <33eef532...@news.mindspring.com> unid...@mindspring.com writes:
>On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:31:43 -0700, Alec <al...@cts.com> wrote:
>SNIP
>>
>>I have closed all the store cards except for Sears. I don't
>>have any logical reason for keeping Sears except that it was
>>my very first credit card.
>>
>There is no logical reason to keep the Sears - you can get rid of it,
>but if you have to use it, not to worry - Sears NEVER closes an
>account - they'll send you a new card and let you charge on your
>"closed account" until you get the new card!
This wasn't true for me or my husband. Altho we both had cards we hadn't used
them to charge anything for many years. When my husband went to use his they
said he had to re-register it. To do so ended up being such a huge
time-consuming hastle he ended up telling them to shove it and made the
purchase elsewhere. This was about 6 years ago btw. A couple years after
that I was buying something there and gave them my VISA. When they asked if I
had a Sears card I said yes but hadn't used it in years and it was probably
"stale." They checked and indeed it wasn't in the active file. They said it
would only take a few minutes to activate it but I just used my VISA.
As far as having multiple cards goes, I see no reason for this unless one
regularly reaches the credit limit on one card and wants to continue buying on
credit. (Not a very wise way to buy, though.) The experts usually suggest
that if one regularly pays only the minimum balance due (or does not pay the
bill off each month), one should shop around for a card that charges the
minimum possible interest rate. There are many guides available to cards that
give the rates charged. I'm sure there are some on the WEB by now. Be
aware though that out-of-state bank cards can create big headaches for you
if there is an error on your bill. Just try getting thru to them via phone.
If one pays off the total balance due each month, then the thing to watch for
is a card that has the longest grace period and charges no monthly fee just to
have the card. There are cards that have additional perks now like accruing
ff miles or free gas or money credits like Discover cards, etc. If you like
want any of those things that is a consideration too.
HTH, Betsy H.
Lisa Bloomer
>If you pay off your balance every month, Discover won't touch you with a
>ten-foot pole. I tried to get a Discover card when my Southwestern Bell
>rebate card instituted a $50 annual penalty for not carrying a balance.
>Discover turned me down, stating that one must be carrying balances on two
>other lines of revolving credit to qualify for a Discover card.
>
>Annette
>
>
That's strange, they gave me a card and I was not carrying a balance on my Visa
at the time. Also, they seem to not have a problem with me so far, even though
I've never carried a balance one their card.
Lisa
--
Lisa Bloomer
Mathematics Graduate Student
Georgia Institute of Technology
Elizabeth H.
In article <33EDF5B6...@cts.com> Alec <al...@cts.com> writes:
>X wrote:
[snippo]
>> One major credit card is plenty, and it's accepted most
>> anywhere. People
>> need to remember that a credit card doesn't mean "free
>> money". Abuse it, and
>> you will pay dearly for misuse.
>I always pay my balances off the end of the month. I just
>got this habbit of carrying a lot of cards. So my problem
>isn't with paying them. My problem is keeping track of what
>is due and on what day. I get bombared with too much mail.
[snip] I would like to have maybe 5 payments: House, car,
>gas@ electric, cable, credit card, oh yeah then there is
>water and trash and cell phone. Well the cable company is
>talking about getting into the local phone market and is
>already providing internet access....
>It isn't a money issue. It is a time issue.
Seems like your post provides the answer: get rid of all the extra cards. I
used to carry a bunch of store cards too. The habit came about before my
favorite dept. stores began to accept VISA or MC or Discover. Besides the
mulitple billings if you use them, there is the worry of losing them! Do you
want to have to remember all the stores to notify of theft!
Just take the plunge and cut those cards up and toss 'em. If you can't go
cold turkey, take them out of your wallet and put them in your desk drawer.
After a year or so when you are cleaning out the drawer and come across all
those cards you never even missed, well, then you should feel free to dispose
of them. As for gasoline cards. Just use cash! I realize that the cards may
be more practical for frequent travelers, but you don't say you are one.
Really, get rid of all but one card. Make sure it has the lowest interest
rate you can find with a nearby banking service.
If you use it a lot and have excellent credit you will still get lots of mail
inviting you to take on newer and "better" cards. Toss 'em unopened (or cut
the mail up like my husband does - he's sure somebody will fish it out of the
trash and use his name to get the card). However, you won't have the hastle
of multiple bills, due dates, etc. Go for it!
Betsy H.
Dave C.
Be careful. Just about every bill I receive these days is from a company
that wants me to authorize them to deduct money directly from my checking
account. I learned the hard way that this is *NOT* a good idea. If you
authorize any company to make deductions directly from your bank account,
you voluntarily lose control of your own money. When the inevitable
billing dispute arises, they already have the money that they *claim* you
owe them. The power is in *their* hands.
For example, Company X claims that you owe them $65, when you actually owe
them only $33. By the time you realize that Company X has made a mistake,
$65 has already been deducted from your checking account by Company X. You
may not know you've been overcharged until you read your next bank
statement. Now to get your $32 back, you have to call Company X and beg
them to give you your money back. (What's wrong with this picture?)
Company X may or may not give you your money back. Even if Company X
agrees that they made an error, you can bet that they'll take their own
sweet time refunding *your* money to you.
Been there, got the headaches to prove it . . . -Dave
To respond directly, there is no "8" in dav...@rocketmail.com
Mark Atwood
all...@mathcs.emory.edu (Allison Wolf) writes:
>
> While direct deposit can simplify things, you have to be careful about
> direct deposits and direct debits. As someone mentioned, these procedures
> give companies more access to your account than you really want them to
> have. Where my in-laws live, a lot of people got royally screwed by direct
> deposit (it made the paper and everything!) when the university discovered
> it had messed up with some of the paychecks it had deposited, proceded to
> pull back all the money it had deposited into people's accounts and then
> later paid everybody the correct amount. There were some folks living on
> the edge who had been counting on the money being there. Those folks all
> got charged by local banks and local companies for bouncing checks and
> nothing happened to the university.
I trust my current employer to do direct deposit properly. The one
time they made a mistake, to fix it, they first deposited the correct
amount, then withdrew the incorrect amount, and then emailed everyone
the next business day with what happened. Of course, not all companies
have enough cash and credit on hand to momentarily cover payroll twice
like that.
I *dont* trust a university to get their paper checks payroll right.
When I was an RA and a TA, on the advice of my coworkers, I kept
photocopies of all my time sheets, and checked everything off against
my paystubs. On more than one occation, I found errors in the number
of hours I was credited with, and errors in my payrate. Universities
*suck* at administration, which is strange, considering all the money
they waste on "administrative overhead".
--
Mark Atwood | Thank you gentlemen, you are everything we have come to
z...@ampersand.com | expect from years of government training. -- MIB Zed
Maria Rost Rublee
naga pappireddi (re...@apple.com) wrote:
: I thought they need written permission to withdraw money. How can they
: take back the money, even though they deposited it?
It happened to me, in New Zealand no less! They deposit money in
Australian funds, which was converted into, say, X NZ$. They then
withdrew the money a few days later because of an error, and because of
the exchange rate, it ended up they withdrew X+50 NZ$ to match the amount
of Australian$ they first put in. So I lost around $50 NZ (maybe it was
$80) on the deal. A real bummer. It was a grant foundation that was
giving money, so there wasn't much I could say.
Maria
: In article <v6g1sclj...@tick.dev.ampersand.com>, Mark Atwood
: <z...@ampersand.com> wrote:
--
Alec
Don't EVER EVER EVER allow ANY company, no matter how
reputable they are to have access to your banking account.
It is the same as opening a joint account with a total
stranger.
I signed a form to allow a medical insurance company to
deduct my monthly premium from my checking account in lieu
of having to mail a check for 3 months at a time.
When I became eligible for company benefits I tried to
cancel. They kept extracting the premium from my account.
I called my banks customer service department and asked them
to stop making the payments. I was told that I had given
the company legal access to my account and they were
obligated to pay the drafts. I told them if they were
unwilling to help me out I would close out my all of my
accounts. I was told that if a draft came in it would cause
a NSF on my closed account and a $20.00 service charge. I
said I don't care. I won't have an account here any way so
you will never get a dime from me. I was then told that the
NSF and unpaid service charge would be reported to all the
credit bureaus.
I was outraged by my banks attitude. So I called the
customer service number of a large competing California
bank. I was told by the other banks customer service person
that if I had an account with them they would try to help me
as much as possible in getting the matter resolved. BUT, my
bank was correct. The electronic fund transfers drafts were
legally obligated to be paid by the bank. In other words I
would get sympathy and understanding but no real help. I
was told by both my bank and the competitor that wanted my
business: Don't ever do this again.
Also what happens if you sign up for automatic payment of
your phone bill and your are billed $1,500 in fraudulent
calls? It happened to me. I received an MCI calling card.
It wad locked in my desk at home. I never used it. I never
even put it in my wallet. But I had $1,500 in calls from New
York City to India charged to it. The MCI fraud department
asked if it was possible that someone could have been
standing behind me while I used it at an air port. I said
it had never left my desk and i have never been further east
of Yuma Arizona in over 20 years.
naga pappireddi
I thought they need written permission to withdraw money. How can they
take back the money, even though they deposited it?
Lisa Bloomer
In article <01bca891$b0ca3f20$36eb77ce@davec80>, "Dave C." <dav...@rocketmail.com> writes:
>
>For example, Company X claims that you owe them $65, when you actually owe
>them only $33. By the time you realize that Company X has made a mistake,
>$65 has already been deducted from your checking account by Company X. You
>may not know you've been overcharged until you read your next bank
>statement. Now to get your $32 back, you have to call Company X and beg
>them to give you your money back. (What's wrong with this picture?)
>Company X may or may not give you your money back. Even if Company X
>agrees that they made an error, you can bet that they'll take their own
>sweet time refunding *your* money to you.
>
This has happened to me. My health insurance company increased my payment
without telling me. When I called to complain, they said they had sent me a
notice about it and by not responding, I had agreed to the increased charge.
I told them I had not received anything, and after a while, they found the
notice they had sent. They had mailed it to the wrong address, even though
they have my correct address, I've gotten mailings from them before. And
when they received the letter back from the USPS, they didn't even try to
contact me.
Anyway, I told them to stop doing the automatic payment, and I am planning
to move to a different insurance company as soon as I can sign up for the
student policy (I have to wait 'til September). Trustmark just has dealt
with me badly, and the increase I'm complaining about here was the third i
increase in a year and a half.
Lisa
------------
Bret Halford
Whenever I have signed up for direct deposit, the form I signed
explicitly gave the depositor the right to take back funds deposited
in error. It sounds like the university in the story below went a tad
beyond that agreement.
-bret
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bret Halford Imagine my disappointment __|
| Sybase Technical Support in learning the true nature __|
| 6400 S. Fiddlers Green Circle of rec.humor.oracle... __|
| Englewood, CO 80111-4954 USA |
============================================================
Allison Wolf
> >It isn't a money issue. It is a time issue. Life was so
>> >much simpler in college. Paid the rent, phone, electric and
>> >that was about it.
>>
>> Many mortgage companies, gas, electric, & telephone companies
>> will debit your checking account on a prearranged day of the month. You
>> still get bills (except mortgage) to remind you how much to deduct from
>> your checkbook on the appointed day. Also, direct deposit of your salary
>> simplifies things. I've never had a problem, since I always have enough
>> cash in my checking account to cover anything.
While direct deposit can simplify things, you have to be careful about
direct deposits and direct debits. As someone mentioned, these procedures
give companies more access to your account than you really want them to
have. Where my in-laws live, a lot of people got royally screwed by direct
deposit (it made the paper and everything!) when the university discovered
it had messed up with some of the paychecks it had deposited, proceded to
pull back all the money it had deposited into people's accounts and then
later paid everybody the correct amount. There were some folks living on
the edge who had been counting on the money being there. Those folks all
got charged by local banks and local companies for bouncing checks and
nothing happened to the university.
Mark E. Smith
In article <01bca891$b0ca3f20$36eb77ce@davec80>,
"Dave C." <dav...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Be careful. Just about every bill I receive these days is from
> a company that wants me to authorize them to deduct money
> directly from my checking account. I learned the hard way that
> this is *NOT* a good idea. If you authorize any company to
> make deductions directly from your bank account, you
> voluntarily lose control of your own money. When the
> inevitable billing dispute arises, they already have the money
> that they *claim* you owe them. The power is in *their* hands.
A while back I carried health insurance with Blue Cross and Blue
Shield, who deducted the premiums from my account monthly. When
I canceled the policy, they continued to deduct premiums for
three full months afterward ... through a "clerical error." It
was a lot of work getting that money back, but the sum was too
large to ignore. Of course, Blue Cross was unwilling to take
responsibility for the fact that they had the use of my money as
a no-cost loan during that time.
Ever notice how any bureaucracy is far more likely to make such a
mistake in the organization's favor than in the individual's? If
they were truly honest mistakes, you'd think they would be
equally likely to go either way.
--
Mark E. Smith <msm...@tfs.net>
Will Bell
In a previous article, msm...@tfs.net (Mark E. Smith) wrote:
>
>A while back I carried health insurance with Blue Cross and Blue
>Shield, who deducted the premiums from my account monthly. When
>I canceled the policy, they continued to deduct premiums for
>three full months afterward ... through a "clerical error." It
One good thing (and this may be the only good thing I'm aware of) about
Bank One is that you can call them and put a "stop payment" on a given
preauthorized withdrawals. There was no service charge for this.
When we canceled our life insurance with Northwestern Mutual we were
advised that another payment "might" go through but it would of course
be refunded.
I didn't even think twice about putting a stop order on that withdrawal
at the Bank. Sure enough in a week I got a dunning notice from NWM's
computer telling me that my premium payment had been refused by my
bank, thus saving me $150 that I probably never would have seen again.
--
Will Bell -- wbb at netcom dot com -- DeepinahartaTexas
Remove spaces and pluses from email address to reply.
Susan Hough
toddh (toddh...@not.earthlink.net) wrote:
: x-no-archive: yes
: >
: >A lot of stores give you x% off your purchase if you sign up for one of
: >their cards. I am never adverse to saving money; you don't have to
: >actually USE the card after that first time.
: True, and I have used that several times. But the ones I have seen
: generally exclude sale or clearance items, and sale discounts are
: about 10-15%. If the item is never on sale, it's a good deal. It's a
I've gotten four cards, Robinsons-May & Target & Eddie Bauer & Bloomingdales, just
for the one-time offers...all four discounts/offers were good on anything in the
store.
Sue
Marcia Zimmerman
Annette C. Hollmann wrote:
> If you pay off your balance every month, Discover won't touch you with a
> ten-foot pole.
We used to carry a balance but for the past year we've paid the Discover
off every month. They just raised our credit limit. I think they're
hinting at us. :)
I tried to get a Discover card when my Southwestern Bell
> rebate card instituted a $50 annual penalty for not carrying a balance.
> Discover turned me down, stating that one must be carrying balances on two
> other lines of revolving credit to qualify for a Discover card.
You might check DejaNews, thread "Credit rejection reasons," to see
some of the screwy things Discover has said to folks here.
(The thread might be in misc.consumers.)
And I completely believe that Discover told you that. BUT,
given the Discover solicitations that blanketed my college campus,
I'd be surprised if they say that to college freshmen with no
credit record.
(Any college freshmen out there who can comment?)
--
Marcia Zimmerman * blac...@the18thhole.com * Oakley, California
"Keeping up with Usenet is harder than balancing my checkbook."
Steve Oualline
Here's how I would handle the problem of someone continuning an
automatic withdrawl improperly.
First I'd talk to the bank.
ME: I'd like to stop these people from taking my money.
BANK: I'm sorry sir, but our regulations won't let us do that.
ME: Find. I'd like to close all my accounts and move them to the bank across
the street. That'll take care of the problem.
BANK: If you do that, then the next automatic withdrawll that comes
through will generate a NFS check charge and we'll report it
to the credit reporting services and ruin your credit rating.
ME: Close it anyway.
Step two, write a letter to the Comtroller of the Currancy, the
people that regulate banks. CC to the branch manager and the president
of the bank.
Something along the lines of:
Bank such and such has told me that unless I continue to
allow them to make payments to Company X that they will wreck
my credit rating. I owe no money to Company X, and I do not
have any contractual relationship with them. But according to the
bank, unless I pay these people every moenth I will loose my credit
rating.
I beleive that extracting money from a person by using threats
is called extrotion. Please investigate.
Such a letter will get the banks attention. I did this once to a bank
only I sent the letter to the Federal Trade Commission. I got two
letters back. One from the FTC telling me I was taking to the wrong
person. The other from the bank, saying, we fixed the problem,
you owe nothing, nothing has been reported to the credit people,
please tell this to the FTC.
If the bank does report me to the credit agencies, I would then get a
lawyer and sue them from libel and millions of dollars. They
reported incorrect information, they they should have known
was incorrect and it damaged my reputation.
Will Bell
In a previous article, al...@cts.com wrote:
>bank was correct. The electronic fund transfers drafts were
>legally obligated to be paid by the bank. In other words I
>would get sympathy and understanding but no real help. I
Either the bank told you a total line of cover-their-butt BS, or this
varies by state. It was trivially simple for me to direct my bank to
refuse paying an EFT draft (see my recent post elsewhere for the whole
story), and it did prevent the $$ from being paid.
I could not specify a "permanent" stop payment, but the bank CSR said I
could call back every month, if desired, and keep putting stop payments
on it until the company quit trying to debit the account.
Alec
Steve Oualline wrote:
> Here's how I would handle the problem of someone
> continuning an
> automatic withdrawl improperly.
>
> First I'd talk to the bank.
>
> ME: I'd like to stop these people from taking my money.
>
> BANK: I'm sorry sir, but our regulations won't let us do
> that.
>
> ME: Find. I'd like to close all my accounts and move them
> to the bank across
> the street. That'll take care of the problem.
>
I guess you either didn't read all of the note or didn't
understand it. The Bank Across the street told me the SAME
THING. By the way I did change to the bank across the
street anyway. About a year later a credit union
representative that came to our company to try to get
employees to join the credit union said the same thing.
Not only that but a stop payment on a check is not
guaranteed. Go to your bank and put a stop payment on a
check.. If they screw-up and pay it anyway, sue them and
see what it gets you. - Laughed out of court!. Don't be so
naive or foolish about who you give access to your bank
account. It is illegal for a bank to stop payment on a
personal check under some circumstances.
David Haines
On her deathbed, Jeane Dixon predicted Marcia Zimmerman would write:
>
> Annette C. Hollmann wrote:
>
> > If you pay off your balance every month, Discover won't touch you with a
> > ten-foot pole.
Not true. We pay our Discover balance >95% of the time with no trouble.
> We used to carry a balance but for the past year we've paid the Discover
> off every month. They just raised our credit limit. I think they're
> hinting at us. :)
Same here, but they're not the only card to do so.
Just got our latest Discover bill, and included was a list of changes to
the cardmember agreement. Naturally the changes are in their favor.
Among other things, the minimum cash advance fee has increased from $2
to $3 and the 10-day late payment grace period has been eliminated.
--------------------------
"'Head them off at the pass'?! I HATE that cliche!!"(BLAM!)
-- Hedley Lamarr
--
To reply by E-mail, just "secularize" the address.
Perhaps a Princess...
In article <5C2E125A88F5ECC0.6B3C8A82...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
Charles <dew...@REMOVEairmail.net> wrote:
@On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:55:19 -0400, catlady <catlady@=^**^=greeneggs.spam>
@wrote:
@Wouldn't work. Postage-paid envelopes are for the envelope only. You would
@need a postage-paid LABEL to affix it to some bricks. However, there are a
@number of heavy or nasty things you could put in the envelope.
I've heard that this has been done so often that, now, the post office
will not deliver bulk rate envelopes with a weight above something
minimal.
Sarah Heacock
Sarah sa...@eskimo.com
===================================================
"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of
the society but the people themselves; and if we think
them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with
a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them but to inform their discretion." - Thomas Jefferson
Cynthia Kinsland
> On her deathbed, Jeane Dixon predicted Marcia Zimmerman would write:
>
> >
> > Annette C. Hollmann wrote:
> >
> > > If you pay off your balance every month, Discover won't touch you with a
> > > ten-foot pole.
>
> Not true. We pay our Discover balance >95% of the time with no trouble.
I've had Discover for 5 or 6 years and have never carried a balance. No
problems.
(but they did raise my limit a couple of times)
>
> > We used to carry a balance but for the past year we've paid the Discover
> > off every month. They just raised our credit limit. I think they're
> > hinting at us. :)
>
> Same here, but they're not the only card to do so.
>
> Just got our latest Discover bill, and included was a list of changes to
> the cardmember agreement. Naturally the changes are in their favor.
> Among other things, the minimum cash advance fee has increased from $2
> to $3 and the 10-day late payment grace period has been eliminated.
I didn't pay a lot of attention to the cash advance fee increase, since
that's an option I never use. The late payment grace period elimination
bothers me a bit more since I tend to sit on my bills awhile before paying
them.
All in all, since I always pay off my card monthly, I love the Discover
card since I get that cash back (sure it's a measly percentage...but it's
better than no percentage). Since we use the card for everything (gas,
groceries, all purchases anywhere that will take it), we end up getting a
hefty little check from them once a year.
Cynthia
jacque greenleaf
In article <33EF3C...@spam.be.gone.ix.netcom.com>,
PezC...@spam.be.gone.ix.netcom.com wrote:
I am toying with the idea of attaching postage-paid
> envelopes to cinder blocks and mailing them back, but I don't know if
> cinder blocks conform to post office regulations.
>
this has indeed been done. people have sent bricks to the IRS. unless the
PO has changed its regs recently, they'll send anything that is a)
properly addressed and b) has proper postage. as far as I know, no postage
paid envelope limits the amount of postage that can be charged against the
permit.
--
jacque greenleaf
salem, oregon
to send email to me, remove ".spam.block" from my address
Wishes5486
>From: blo...@math.gatech.edu (Lisa Bloomer)
> Trustmark just has dealt
>with me badly, and the increase I'm complaining about here was >the third
I have Trustmark, and they are horrible!!! Constant increases! I'm also
searching for a new company in September.
-Sara
Dennis Willson
In article <clk10-17089...@128.253.86.187>, cl...@cornell.edu says...
>
>All in all, since I always pay off my card monthly, I love the Discover
>card since I get that cash back (sure it's a measly percentage...but it's
>better than no percentage). Since we use the card for everything (gas,
>groceries, all purchases anywhere that will take it), we end up getting a
>hefty little check from them once a year.
I agree, I use my Discover for anything I can to maximize the cash back (I've
actually made a $2 charge at the hardware store!). I haven't paid a dime in
interest or fees in 8 years. One surprise though -- apparently you only earn
cash back on "goods" and not "services". I charged over $2000 at the local
equipment rental shop on my Discover, but when I got the cash back summary, the
rentals were classed as "services" and did not earn cash back. Oh well, I would
use the card just to consolidate the bills and avoid carrying cash anyway -- the
cash back is just a nice bonus.
Regards,
Dennis Willson
David Teichholtz
<discussion about many credit cards deleted>
It actually is a good idea to cary an extra major card. About 12 years
ago I flew to a funeral. At the airport my card was declined. Which was
kinda strange considering I don't use my cards much and never run
a balance. And just the day before I had purchased the airline ticket.
I just pulled out my other card and it went thru.
It turned out that the in-house travel agent where I was working (and
had bought the airline ticket) had put thru an authorization for
about 10 times the price of the ticket, tying up all my credit on
that card. Whoops.
Yeah, I probably could have figured this out using the pay phones at the
rent-a-car place, but it would have been a pain. The second card
saved the day. It would have been a grave situation if I had
missed the funeral.
-David
--
============================================================================
David Teichholtz Looking Glass Technologies
sidney orr
From bitter experience, I heartily recommend getting rid of _all_ credit
cards and replacing them with a _debit_ card. If you really need
credit for extra working capital, buy a home and borrow against that.
(I know that sounds easy, but I think anyone who works can do that).
The liabilities that come with "credit" cards are simply too great,
not to mention the (still) 18%+ interest rates. The lenders that are
getting 18%+ in reality _despise_ their customers, and do everything in their
power to make you and them a captive audience. I hope you don't think I'm
exaggerating... good luck...
Dave C. (dav...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
: Be careful. Just about every bill I receive these days is from a company
: that wants me to authorize them to deduct money directly from my checking
: account. I learned the hard way that this is *NOT* a good idea. If you
: authorize any company to make deductions directly from your bank account,
: you voluntarily lose control of your own money. When the inevitable
: billing dispute arises, they already have the money that they *claim* you
: owe them. The power is in *their* hands.
: For example, Company X claims that you owe them $65, when you actually owe
: them only $33. By the time you realize that Company X has made a mistake,
: $65 has already been deducted from your checking account by Company X. You
: may not know you've been overcharged until you read your next bank
: statement. Now to get your $32 back, you have to call Company X and beg
: them to give you your money back. (What's wrong with this picture?)
: Company X may or may not give you your money back. Even if Company X
: agrees that they made an error, you can bet that they'll take their own
: sweet time refunding *your* money to you.
: Been there, got the headaches to prove it . . . -Dave
: To respond directly, there is no "8" in dav...@rocketmail.com
: > >It isn't a money issue. It is a time issue. Life was so
: > >much simpler in college. Paid the rent, phone, electric and
: > >that was about it.
: >
: > Many mortgage companies, gas, electric, & telephone companies
: > will debit your checking account on a prearranged day of the month. You
: > still get bills (except mortgage) to remind you how much to deduct from
: > your checkbook on the appointed day. Also, direct deposit of your salary
: > simplifies things. I've never had a problem, since I always have enough
: > cash in my checking account to cover anything.
: >
:
--
David Hinds
sidney orr (so...@netcom.com) wrote:
: From bitter experience, I heartily recommend getting rid of _all_ credit
: cards and replacing them with a _debit_ card. If you really need
: credit for extra working capital, buy a home and borrow against that.
: (I know that sounds easy, but I think anyone who works can do that).
Credit cards are very useful even if you never need credit. I am very
wary of debit cards that directly remove money from my bank account.
You have more legal protection against fraud when you use a credit
card... it is easier to refuse a charge (since you have to actually
pay a credit card bill) than to try to reverse a debit after the fact.
-- Dave Hinds
sh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
om.com> <5tdfa0$1fd$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: Edmonton FreeNet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Distribution:
Our Visa has no annual fee and no transaction fee. We pay it off every
month. Therefore, NO costs are involved. Depending on what part of the
billing cycle we make a purchase in, a period of 6 weeks may elapse
between purchase and actual payment of the monthly balance. NO
interest..we get to use THE BANKS money for free. Our debit card likewise
incurs no fees. We only use it if the merchant gives a discount or other
bonus for using it instead of a credit card. Cash, we only use for very
small (less than $5, perhaps) purchases. Cheques?// NO WAY, unless they
refuse VISA or debit card. The only accounts we have who we still have to
use checks are our annual property taxes, semiannual car/house insurance
and..thats it. Reason: even though we pay no service charges on checks as
along as we keep a minimum $1000 in the account, the cost of the
personalized cheques makes it a non-frugal method. I personally find it a
pain to be in a line up where someone insists on writing a check and has
to go through all the ID thing, etc. Oh, all our utility accounts are
automatically debitted from the bank account, sending us a statement from
the utility co. about 2 weeks PRIOR to the withdrawal date. This allows
time to catch and correct any mistakes (which have never occurred). Also,
the withdrawal never occurs before the last possible day. Therefore the
bank balance stays as high as possible for as long as possible.
The above suggestions suggest various ways how the system can be used
profitably to help the individual
David Hinds (dhi...@zen.stanford.edu) wrote:
: sidney orr (so...@netcom.com) wrote:
: -- Dave Hinds
--
Maria Rost Rublee
Phaedrus (phae...@halcyon.com) wrote:
: In article <sorrEF6...@netcom.com>, sidney orr <so...@netcom.com> wrote:
: >From bitter experience, I heartily recommend getting rid of _all_ credit
: >cards and replacing them with a _debit_ card.
: That's odd. I heartily recommend getting rid of _all_ debit cards and
: replacing them with an ATM card and a _credit_ card.
<snip>
: So, if you qualify for a reasonable credit card (one with a grace period,
: and no annual fee), and if you pay it off each month, then using a debit card
: simply doesn't make financial sense; it's not giving you anything that the
: credit card doesn't, and you're losing both the interest-free loan on your
: purchases and the flexibility of being able to carry a balance in an
: emergency. Looking at it from this perspective, the only reason not to use a
: credit card would be if you didn't think you had the skills and the willpower
: to control your purchases and pay your balance each month. (And in that case,
: you should be doing something to develop those skills.)
Well said! And let's not forget, if you don't use a good credit card, you
are also forgoing rebates, and lots of other good benefits, like purchase
protection (if your purchase is lost or stolen in 90 days, they buy you
another one), price protection (if you find an item on sale after you've
bought it, they refund the differenc), warranty doubling (they double your
manufacturer warranties up to 2 years on most purchases), etc.
Maria
Jim Lellman
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, David Teichholtz wrote:
>
> <discussion about many credit cards deleted>
>
> It actually is a good idea to cary an extra major card. About 12 years
> ago I flew to a funeral. At the airport my card was declined. Which was
> kinda strange considering I don't use my cards much and never run
> a balance. And just the day before I had purchased the airline ticket.
> I just pulled out my other card and it went thru.
>
I was buying something online and having modem troubles.
Eventually my card was declined, and I discovered I had ordered
dozens of the same (expensive) item. Vendor cheerfully corrected it.
The extra card (or only card) can be a no-fee card, so it won't cost
you anything if you don't use it. Inexpensive peace of mind.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask about our no-fee VISA card, 9.9% over prime.
Jim Lellman
lel...@daugherty.com
Steve Snyder
David Teichholtz wrote:
> <discussion about many credit cards deleted>
>
> It actually is a good idea to cary an extra major card. About 12 years
> ago I flew to a funeral. At the airport my card was declined. Which was
> kinda strange considering I don't use my cards much and never run
> a balance. And just the day before I had purchased the airline ticket.
> I just pulled out my other card and it went thru.
>
> It turned out that the in-house travel agent where I was working (and
> had bought the airline ticket) had put thru an authorization for
> about 10 times the price of the ticket, tying up all my credit on
> that card. Whoops.
>
> Yeah, I probably could have figured this out using the pay phones at the
> rent-a-car place, but it would have been a pain. The second card
> saved the day. It would have been a grave situation if I had
> missed the funeral.
>
A "grave situation" if you missed the funeral??????? What a play on words! :-)
I agree that a second card is worth having. My AMEX card is used infrequently
but because there's no credit limit, I have used it as a backup. AMEX is best
for traveling (the reason why I originally requested the card) because
situations arise that aren't planned. When traveling on a tight schedule, you
don't have time to make phone calls to fix travel agent's mistakes! :-) It's
easier to just whip out my green card (ha ha) and be off on my merry way.
Steve S.
> -David
>
> --
>
> ============================================================================
> David Teichholtz Looking Glass Technologies
--
"The opinions expressed are those of the writer and not of Pep Boys."
Russell Kegley
Alec wrote:
>
> Don't EVER EVER EVER allow ANY company, no matter how
> reputable they are to have access to your banking account.
> It is the same as opening a joint account with a total
> stranger.
For the same reason, I won't have my employer direct-deposit my paycheck
to my account. If you read the fine print on the authorization form, it
will usually have a clause which allows your employer to automatically
DRAFT your account if they feel like you owe them money. While I have
no problem with returning money in the event they overpay me, I
certainly would want to have a discussion about it prior to their
yanking money out of my checking account.
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Russell Kegley | Lockheed Martin Tac. Aircraft Sys. |
| Software & Processing Tech. | P. O. Box 748, MZ 6462 |
| 817-763-3310 / FAX 817-763-2967 | Fort Worth, TX 76101 |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| E-mail: Russell....@lmco.com / (Home) RBKe...@swbell.net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This opinion is (obviously) mine and not that of Lockheed-Martin |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Phaedrus
In article <5tnu5e$s7e$3...@gte1.gte.net>, Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> wrote:
>BD wrote:
>> *ONE* Visa's all I've got now. Forget the visa debit-card..TOO
>> dangerous..
>> If it's stolen, you're outta luck!
>> By charging everything to the card and paying it off at the end of the
>> mnth,
>> I also maximize the interest I make off my bank-account...
>How is the Visa debit card any more dangerous than the Visa Credit Card?
>You need the PIN number to use it as a debit card...
But not to use it as a credit card.
> Bank of America,
>(for one)has eliminated the liability to the user for fraudulent use of
>a stolen debit Visa,
Not exactly; they've decided to use the same terms that credit cards do--
there's still some potential liability there.
> so it appears to me that the debit card would be
>safer than the Credit card.
No. A debit card that's still usable in the same way as credit cards--
and Visa and MasterCard debit cards are; otherwise the logo would be silly--
can never be as safe as a real credit card.
Think about this. Suppose you have a credit card with a $3000 limit.
I steal your card, and max it out. You report the card stolen promptly, so
you're not liable for the charges. You don't have access to your card, or to
your line of credit, while the matter is sorted out; that may be inconvenient.
But you can still pay your bills.
Now let's say that you have a debit card with $3000 in the account.
I steal your card, and empty it out. You report the card stolen promptly,
so you're not liable for the charges. Your account has no money, and probably
won't until the situation is sorted out. Your checks bounce. You can't pay
your bills.
A debit card simply can't be as safe as a credit card; it's the nature of
the beast. A credit card puts a buffer--your line of credit--between the thief
and your money; the thief can do his worst with that line of credit, but he
can't touch your money directly. With a debit card, that buffer is gone; when
a thief steals your card, he steals the use of your bank account for the
duration. Think very carefully about the consequences of that.
--
\o\ If you're interested in books/stories with transformation themes, \o\
/o/ try <URL:http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/translist/translist.html>. /o/
\o\ New list entries always appreciated. FC1.21:FC(W/C)p6arw A- C->++ D>++ \o\
/o/ H+ M>+ P R T++++ W** Z+ Sm RLCT a cmn++++$ d e++ f+++ h- i++wf p-- sm# /o/
Mike Morris
In article <33FE09...@lmco.com> Russell Kegley <Russell....@lmco.com> writes:
>From: Russell Kegley <Russell....@lmco.com>
>Subject: Re: Don't EVER SIGN-UP FOR AUTOMATIC DEBITS (was: One major card is all
>you need. )
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:49:46 -0500
Agreed. My employer has a $3500 bonus for certain positions, and at one
point there were 6 positions on that list. One of my co-workers knew a
few people, and he filed resumes on three of the positions. Paments
are made after the person is hired, passes security and credit checks
(no need tosend nasty mail - it's is a mortgage and stock trading
company, the practice is common in the industry) and is there for 6 months.
Anyway one person was hired and a second a few months later. The first
headhunter payment was automatially deposited and he moved all of it
to a savings account. A second one appeared a few paycheks later (we are
paid twice a month), and he used it to pay for some roof repairs. A
third came in 4 months later,and he moved it to savings. All this time,
he has heard NOTHING from personnel, but two of his friends take him to
lunch and he wonders who the third is.... All of a sudden he gets a
NASTY phone call from his mechanic - his $900 check for a total rebuild
on his brakes has bounced. He calls the bank,and HIS EMPLOYER REMOVED
$3500 THE PREVIOUS DAY without any notice, overdrawing the account by $100.
He ends up having to do a panic transfer from savings to cover several
outstanding checks - fortunately he could do it via an 800 number.
Needless to say, the fecal matter hit the rotary airfoil. My co-worker
and his supervisor and senior manager had a nice long chat with the head of
payroll, and it turns out that they had double-paid him for the 1st referral.
After everything settled down, the end result was that several procedures were
changed. But my friend revoked his direct deposit (as did most everybody in
his department) and my friend will NEVER trust direct deposit again.
Now I'll admit that I am on direct deposit, but I also keep only a couple of
hundred $. I write checks on the 1st and the 16th, and move the leftover into
savings.
Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Morris ham radio: WA6ILQ ICBM: 34:07:54.9 by 118:03:46.2
The above is my own opinion and should not be construed to be that of
my former or my current employers. Reply address spoofed to discourage
junk email, please remove the "*" from the address.
Bob Ward
unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> On 24 Aug 1997 00:10:22 GMT, Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >How is the Visa debit card any more dangerous than the Visa Credit
> Card?
> >(for one)has eliminated the liability to the user for fraudulent use
> of
> >safer than the Credit card.
>
>
Contrary to your statement, If I use my Visa debit card as a debit card
rather than as a Visa purchase, a PIN number IS required... when used as
a Visa (credit card) the same ID is required as for any other Visa card
transaction.
> Bank of America may have taken that action, but the relief from VISA
> is not effective until September (the end in fac I believe a VISA
> spokseman said!). Also the relief from responsibility for fraudulent
> use has other conditions relative to time of notification of losses
> that are not the same as those for a credit card!
What requirements (specifically) differ between notifications for credit
cards and debit cards?
Will Bell
In a previous article, morris*@cogent.net (Mike Morris) wrote:
> [Friend was double-paid $3500 by direct deposit, employer
> direct deducted it back a few weeks later after the cash was
> moved elsewhere, checks bounced, everyone got upset]
Most direct deposit takeback sob stories I have heard are like this
one. People got credited exceedingly too much money and then got mad
when the company rightfully took it back. My question is, whatever
made them think they were entitled to it in the first place?
I presume that people are aware of approximately how much money they
should be getting on a given direct deposit. Especially for such a
large sum as $3500, I presume your friend is well aware of how many
times he should be receiving this bonus. He is watching his paycheck
or bank statement for it, right?
So now he gets this extra $3500 like pennies from heaven. You
mentioned that payroll never contacted him. I'm inclined to ask why he
never called payroll upon receiving this additional mystery bonus! Was
he just going to wait and see if they ever realized their error?
And then, to have the temerity to go complain to payroll because they
took back money which was never rightfully his ... I can't believe he
wasn't fired for trying to steal $3500! Please correct me if I am
misinterpreting any details of this story.
Of course, I won't claim to be an angel of honesty, I'd probably do the
exact same thing, but I would at least wait a few months to see if it
ever got caught and corrected. It was just dumb to immediately zip the
money elsewhere thinking that might somehow protect it or whatever.
Duncan MacGregor
Recently, Will Bell (+w...@netcom.com) wrote:
> In a previous article, morris*@cogent.net (Mike Morris) wrote:
>> [Friend was double-paid $3500 by direct deposit, employer
>> direct deducted it back a few weeks later after the cash was
>> moved elsewhere, checks bounced, everyone got upset]
>
> Most direct deposit takeback sob stories I have heard are like this
> one. People got credited exceedingly too much money and then got mad
> when the company rightfully took it back. My question is, whatever
> made them think they were entitled to it in the first place?
Perhaps so, but I would appreciate *fair warning*. Mr. Morris had the take
back occur without *any* warning or explanation. This is a serious failure
to communicate. Yes, he should pay up, but if he had been told of the error
before the correction occurred, he could have prepared for it -- perhaps by
selling his auto. :-)
>
> Of course, I won't claim to be an angel of honesty, I'd probably do the
> exact same thing, but I would at least wait a few months to see if it
> ever got caught and corrected. It was just dumb to immediately zip the
> money elsewhere thinking that might somehow protect it or whatever.
>
Agreed. If there is no explanation for the deposit, I would ask my boss (or
"payroll") why it was made. This is, perhaps, where Mr. Morris went wrong.
>
> --
> Will Bell -- wbb at netcom dot com -- DeepinahartaTexas
> Remove spaces and pluses from email address to reply.
--
Duncan MacGregor | aa...@freenet.carleton.ca | #include <disclaimer.h>
Also at: "http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~aa735/" | To err is human ...
Phaedrus
In article <5to9au$aut$1...@gte2.gte.net>, Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> wrote:
>unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> You DO NOT need a PIN to use a debit card!
>>
>Contrary to your statement, If I use my Visa debit card as a debit card
>rather than as a Visa purchase, a PIN number IS required...
That's not "contrary to your statement". If I steal your debit card,
I'll know that I can't use it as a debit card, because I'll need the PIN
(which I don't have). So I'll use it as a credit card instead. I can still
"use your debit card" just fine.
> when used as
>a Visa (credit card) the same ID is required as for any other Visa card
>transaction.
Namely, none at all, at least in the vast majority of cases.
n...@don't.spam.com
Will Bell wrote:
>
> In a previous article, morris*@cogent.net (Mike Morris) wrote:
> > [Friend was double-paid $3500 by direct deposit, employer
> > direct deducted it back a few weeks later after the cash was
> > moved elsewhere, checks bounced, everyone got upset]
>
> Most direct deposit takeback sob stories I have heard are like this
> one. People got credited exceedingly too much money and then got mad
> when the company rightfully took it back. My question is, whatever
> made them think they were entitled to it in the first place?
you NASTY fool!
You obviously didn't read the account and therefore
should NOT write an NASTY, MEAN and in erronous attack
> I presume that people are aware of approximately how much money they
> should be getting on a given direct deposit. Especially for such a
> large sum as $3500, I presume your friend is well aware of how many
> times he should be receiving this bonus. He is watching his paycheck
> or bank statement for it, right?
>
> So now he gets this extra $3500 like pennies from heaven. You
> mentioned that payroll never contacted him. I'm inclined to ask why he
> never called payroll upon receiving this additional mystery bonus! Was
> he just going to wait and see if they ever realized their error?
>
> And then, to have the temerity to go complain to payroll because they
> took back money which was never rightfully his ... I can't believe he
> wasn't fired for trying to steal $3500! Please correct me if I am
> misinterpreting any details of this story.
>
> Of course, I won't claim to be an angel of honesty, I'd probably do the
> exact same thing, but I would at least wait a few months to see if it
> ever got caught and corrected. It was just dumb to immediately zip the
> money elsewhere thinking that might somehow protect it or whatever.
so don't only are you a nasty FOOL, YOU ARE A CHEAT TOO!!!!
UNLIKE the person mentioned in the ORIGINAL POST, who, in this case,
was NOT!!!
try reading the original post next time you
feel this attacking someone (and proclaiming
yourself a theif!)
Net-user
There is an easy solution. Most people have more than just one bank
account. Have your automated debits in a special account. You can
transfer the money needed to cover just the automatic payments. The
companies who handle those EFTs will only have access to that account
and you will not have to worry about them withdrawing more than they
should in error because there will be nothing extra to withdraw. You
can do the same thing with Visa debit cards and not have to worry about
someone draining your life savings with a stolen card.
--
SEND REPLIES TO:
NET-...@USA.NET
Will Bell
In a previous article, no@don't.spam.com wrote:
>
>try reading the original post next time you
>feel this attacking someone (and proclaiming
>yourself a theif!)
Well, since I do have a tendency to skim, rather than just dismissing
you as a hateful, near-illiterate idiot, I did re-read the article in
question, and on the 3rd pass I saw where he did say that indeed the
person deserved 3 payments. So these comments were inappropriate for
this instance of the sob story.
However, I will stand by them for 95% of the other sob stories I have
heard, many of them on this newsgroup, where people got money they were
clearly not entitled to, spent it, then got all aghast when payroll
finally realized the error and took it back, causing them bounced
checks and pain.
--
H. Austin Hummel
In article <5tnu5e$s7e$3...@gte1.gte.net>, Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> writes:
|> BD wrote:
|>
|> > *ONE* Visa's all I've got now. Forget the visa debit-card..TOO
|> > dangerous..
|> > If it's stolen, you're outta luck!
|> > By charging everything to the card and paying it off at the end of the
|> > mnth,
|> > I also maximize the interest I make off my bank-account...
|>
|> You need the PIN number to use it as a debit card... Bank of America,
|> (for one)has eliminated the liability to the user for fraudulent use of
|> a stolen debit Visa, so it appears to me that the debit card would be
|> safer than the Credit card.
No - no - no - no, this is bad information.
a debit card is direcly connected to your checking account,
one can use it as a charge card and the amount is deducted from
your checking account. and normally coupled with overdraft protection
to give you large charge ability.
it does not need a PIN to charge, only to withdraw cash from an ATM.
(which I can do with my credit card).
And Federal law limits the responsibility to $50 for Credit cards only
not debit cards, you are responsible for debit cards, and possibly
your Homeowners Insurance can have a protection for losses due to
fraude (sp?).
--
========================================================================
Austin Hummel email: ahu...@other.siemens-psc.com
========================================================================
Richard
Jim Lellman wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ask about our no-fee VISA card, 9.9% over prime.
> Jim Lellman
> lel...@daugherty.com
And what is prime now-a-days around 8%
8
+9.9
====
17.9% One hell of a deal! Who in their right mind would pay that kind
of interest?
Jim Lellman
You didn't ask, but we have a gold card at 8.9% over prime.<g>
The point behind the original post (since snipped) was that if you're
going to carry a card around for emergencies, you might want to carry one
with no annual fees. If you're going to carry a large balance, then the
interest rate may be more important than having no annual fees.
Even so, a card with a $20/year annual fee effectively has a 2% higher
interest rate than the stated rate, if the average balance is $1000.
Of course, YMMV. My sig line was offering an option.
Gregory Johnson
In article <5u7c4e$n6q$1...@gte1.gte.net> Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> writes:
>H. Austin Hummel wrote:
>>
>
>> And Federal law limits the responsibility to $50 for Credit cards only
>> not debit cards, you are responsible for debit cards, and possibly
>> your Homeowners Insurance can have a protection for losses due to
>> fraude (sp?).
>>
>> --
>
>liability for a Bank of America Versateller debit card is ZERO... the
>customer does not pay a cent... nothing. As far as I know, B of A was
>the first to announce this policy, but it's likely that others will do
>the same.
This is a good policy, if it indeed stands up to the scrutiny of the
fine print.
One thing to keep in mind though: if a thief cleans out your checking
account by stealing your debit card or number, can you live without
the money for the probable 30-60 day period that they will spend
"investigating" it?
One other question. I have a B of A checking account, largely for
historical reasons. When I lived in California, they had just started
offering the debit cards. They wanted to run a *credit report* to
issue a Visa debit card. Have they dropped this requirement so
they can push the debit cards? I sort of refuse on principle to allow
them to see my credit report so they can issue a *debit* card.
--Greg
NOlby50841
Dear Frugal Friends:
I used to have a Discover card but upgraded to the Discover Private Issue.
Unfortunately, they don't have the same cash back program that regular
discover has if you pay your balance off in full each month. We've found
that we prefer to use the TJMaxx card better than Discover. It pays 1% (on
goods & services I believe), and 5% when used at TJMaxx/Marshalls and you
get periodic $15 gift certificates when your cashback bonus accrues. This
has been quite helpful when buying clothes and other household things like
linens/towels. As for other credit card tips, I carry about 10 cards all
w/ different closing dates. I charge shortly after the closing date which
generally gives me 2 months (including the grace period) to pay my bill off
in full, resulting in a fairly good interest free loan.
Best wishes, Brian Olby
Doobie
On 24 Aug 1997 00:10:22 GMT, Bob Ward <bob...@gte.net> wrote:
>How is the Visa debit card any more dangerous than the Visa Credit Card?
>You need the PIN number to use it as a debit card... Bank of America,
>(for one)has eliminated the liability to the user for fraudulent use of
>a stolen debit Visa, so it appears to me that the debit card would be
>safer than the Credit card.
It's real simple... Where's the money? With a credit card, you still
have your money. With a debit card, you're trying to get your
money back.
Phaedrus
In article <340BB97E...@osf1.gmu.edu>,
Bent Ben <bmo...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote:
>A bank wants to do a credit check to see if you're worthy to get a
>debit card, which is no credit risk to the bank at all? Weird.
Not that weird at all. Despite the modernizations of the recent years,
there are still plenty of places that acept credit cards "offline"--they
don't immediately get an authorization code from the bank. (And even at the
"online" places, the computers are sometimes down.) If you're so inclined,
it's still pretty easy to use a Visa or MC debit card to ring up charges that
you don't have the money in your account to pay for. So a Visa or MC debit
card still represents a credit risk to the bank.
Furthermore, if you've had past credit problems (particularly
bankruptcies), you're quite a bit more likely to commit fraud--taking out a
big cash advance and falsely reporting the card stolen, for example.
gwen
: >In article <340BB97E...@osf1.gmu.edu>,
: >Bent Ben <bmo...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote:
: >>A bank wants to do a credit check to see if you're worthy to get a
: >>debit card, which is no credit risk to the bank at all? Weird.
: >
: > Not that weird at all. Despite the modernizations of the recent years,
: >there are still plenty of places that acept credit cards "offline"--they
: >don't immediately get an authorization code from the bank. (And even at the
: >"online" places, the computers are sometimes down.) If you're so inclined,
: >it's still pretty easy to use a Visa or MC debit card to ring up charges that
: >you don't have the money in your account to pay for. So a Visa or MC debit
: >card still represents a credit risk to the bank.
Fair enough. But I think banks are being... untruthful about this. In my
own case, Seafirst turned me down for a Visa debit card, saying that I
needed to pass *Visa's* credit check (which would imply that it's actually
Visa taking any risk). When I opened a checking account at Washington
Mutual, they asked me if I wanted a Visa debit card, and they sent it out
with no problem. In fact, they made it clear that there was *no* credit
check.
So, the options are: Seafirst was just being annoying, as usual; WaMu has
a fabulously better contract with Visa that puts all the risk on Visa; or
WaMu has discarded business tenets and assumed a big risk. Or, of course,
there could have been a credit check after all and my credit miraculously
transformed itself.
I vote for Seafirst being annoying and stupid, along with other banks that
put stupid restrictions on debit cards.
--Gwen
--
Gwen Garrison
gw...@blarg.com
"No, then we ship."
Bent Ben
A bank wants to do a credit check to see if you're worthy to get a
debit card, which is no credit risk to the bank at all? Weird.
Just a "bent" observation about the wonders of advertising:
A "credit card" is something that gets you into DEBT and INTEREST
payments.
A "debit card" is something that (usually) costs you nothing other than
drawing down your (checking) account balance.
I read in the paper that banks prefer to call the "debit" card a "check
card" due to the negative (rightly) image of "debt." On 2nd thought,
that's probably why a "credit" card is so named. It's true that
someone is graciously extending you 18% interest "credit", but you are
in reality prone to run up a "debt." Ooops.. I have heard similar
claims about "gaming" ( = "gambling" ) but I don't see the distinction
personally.
Will Bell
In a previous article, unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>Aren't you getting CREDI cards confused with DEBIT cards - the things
>you describe ALL relate to CREDIT cards, NOT DEBIT cards! There is no
>such thing as a CASH ADVANCE with a debit card - that is why you have
Sure there is. When I hand over a Visa Check Card, it is supposed to
be a Visa as far as the bank is concerned. To them, it is a cash
advance on a VISA card. To me, it is a cash advance on a debit card.
The actual source of the funds is supposed to be irrelevant and
transparent to the merchant.
I see no difference between processing a credit card transaction off
line vs. a check card transaction off line. Both have a similar
potential for fraud.
gggg...@gmail.com
> As I am sitting here opening envelopes I am beginning to
> wonder how any credit cards that I really need.
>
> At this time last year I had about 22 credit cards. I had
> cards for all the area stores, 2 gas station cards, 3 Master
> Cards, 2 Visa, a Discover and an American Express.
>
> I have closed all the store cards except for Sears. I don't
> have any logical reason for keeping Sears except that it was
> my very first credit card.
>
> I am thinking of closing my Texaco and Chevron accounts.
> All the gas stations in this area take ATM cards, Master
> card and Visa. Is this true in all areas of the country or
> should I keep the gas station cards for travel?
>
> Besides the gas station cards I still have Sears, 2 Master
> cards, 2 Visas, Discover and AMEX. I was thinking of
> keeping 2 cards. One card for everyday expenditures when
> you don't have cash and don't feel like carrying the check
> book, and 1 cards for emergencies. Such as blew the engine
> on the car.
>
> I got so many cards by taking advantage of offers such as
> 10% or low interest rate. Some cards continue to make
> offers. For instance Eddie Bauer offers 10% on certain days
> to current card holders - not just new applications.
>
> I work a lot of hours and like to spend my free time
> relaxing and not keeping current on which card has the best
> deal this week.
>
> Alec
>
> al...@cts.com
https://www.wsj.com/articles/macy-s-to-close-125-department-stores-exit-weakest-malls-11580850007
ItsJoan NotJoann
YEAR OLD posts to reply to??? And what the hell does Macy's closing
stores have to do with this credit card thread?????????????????