Would Hitler have turned a good environmentalist?
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
half (which could have helped an overcrowded planet), but in his
madness he may have chosen the simplicity of the bike or the
compactness of the VW over the stupidity of the Supersized Unnecessary
Vehicle.
You may argue that he was evil, but he was not about money like we are
today. I don't believe though this a necessary outcome of democracy,
so we are still dreaming of better worlds to come. Maybe we can even
get a better leader in the future, who ultimately doesn't lead us into
total war and the hate of one race or another. Or maybe our species
just grew big and fat like pigs and there's no way back to the times
of idealism.
Whenever I see those WWII movies, I go green with envy about those
people riding bikes. All they had to do to survive is NOT to oppose
the Nazis and carry on with their peaceful lives. Except if you were a
Jew, when you'd die quickly instead of a long agonizing death. Today
my bicycles are gathering rust, while my path through a mostly Jewish
area is carefully blocked so no car or bicycle goes through, and I'm
also blocked at the local forum where I used to make noise. GATED
COMMUNITIES everywhere mark the lions from the mundane monkeys. This
is long agonizing death. See, my humanity is in rebellion about the
fact that I can't exercise the simple pleasure to ride a bike,
particularly when I choose that to be my contribution to fight climate
change.
This is Miami Beach.
--------------------------------------------------------
THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
"The jungle is good for the lion, but not for the monkey"
Jym Dyer
to reality after another, so sure, why not drag Hitler into it?
Here's something by way of an answer:
"Above all, it is the young who succumb to this magic.
They experience the triumph of the motorcar with the full
temperament of their impressionable hearts. It must be
seen as a sign of the invigorating power of our people
that they give themselves with such fanatic devotion to
this invention, the invention which provides the basis
and structure of our modern traffic."
-- Adolf Hitler
=v= So I would think the answer to the apparent query in
the "Subject:' line would would be "No." But then again,
I have grey matter in my head instead of squashed bananas.
<_Jym_>
Jeff Thies
> Well, not only he may have killed half of humanity to save the other
> half (which could have helped an overcrowded planet), but in his
> madness he may have chosen the simplicity of the bike or the
> compactness of the VW
The VW was his idea:
http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/
and for that matter, the super hiway:
http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/autobahn/
without which Germany would not have been able to fight on so many fronts.
Hitler also promoted cycling:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/08/hitler-youth-prewar-cyclists-boy-scouts
over the stupidity of the Supersized Unnecessary
> Vehicle.
also a German invention; by Ferdinand Porsche:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant
>
> You may argue that he was evil, but he was not about money like we are
> today. I don't believe though this a necessary outcome of democracy,
> so we are still dreaming of better worlds to come. Maybe we can even
> get a better leader in the future, who ultimately doesn't lead us into
> total war and the hate of one race or another. Or maybe our species
> just grew big and fat like pigs and there's no way back to the times
> of idealism.
>
> Whenever I see those WWII movies, I go green with envy about those
> people riding bikes. All they had to do to survive is NOT to oppose
> the Nazis and carry on with their peaceful lives.
Gas and rubber were in short supply. In fact, much of WWII supplies
depended on the original mass pollution vehicle, the horse.
Jeff
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
> TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit wrote:
> > Well, not only he may have killed half of humanity to save the other
> > half (which could have helped an overcrowded planet), but in his
> > madness he may have chosen the simplicity of the bike or the
> > compactness of the VW
>
> The VW was his idea:
>
> http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/
>
> and for that matter, the super hiway:
>
> http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/autobahn/
>
> without which Germany would not have been able to fight on so many fronts.
>
>
> over the stupidity of the Supersized Unnecessary
>
> > Vehicle.
>
> also a German invention; by Ferdinand Porsche:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant
>
>
>
> > You may argue that he was evil, but he was not about money like we are
> > today. I don't believe though this a necessary outcome of democracy,
> > so we are still dreaming of better worlds to come. Maybe we can even
> > get a better leader in the future, who ultimately doesn't lead us into
> > total war and the hate of one race or another. Or maybe our species
> > just grew big and fat like pigs and there's no way back to the times
> > of idealism.
>
> > Whenever I see those WWII movies, I go green with envy about those
> > people riding bikes. All they had to do to survive is NOT to oppose
> > the Nazis and carry on with their peaceful lives.
>
> Gas and rubber were in short supply. In fact, much of WWII supplies
> depended on the original mass pollution vehicle, the horse.
>
> Jeff
This is quoted from a Marxist source, so they denounce this "naive"
view and yet it sounds like a fact --unless refuted...
Fascism, animal rights and human rights
The most notorious environmentalists in history were the German Nazis.
The Nazis ordered soldiers to plant more trees. They were the first
Europeans to establish nature reserves and order the protection of
hedgerows and other wildlife habitats. And they were horrified at the
idea of hydroelectric dams on the Rhine. Adolf Hitler and other
leading Nazis were vegetarian and they passed numerous laws on animal
rights.
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
Oh c'mon, the fact is he gave birth to the most simple down to earth
vehicle ever --the VW.
It would have been the equivalent of a donkey compared to the American
horses of the time.
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
the Fuhrer!
Charmin
you are going nowhere anyway.
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
So I am in the cage, and must get in another cage, the car, to go
shopping and be a happy sheep...
Sorry, but that's not satisfactory for a monkey.
Nick Naim
"TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionn...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message
news:3d7db044-9544-4982...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> Well, not only he may have killed half of humanity to save the other
> half (which could have helped an overcrowded planet),
but in his
> madness he may have chosen the simplicity of the bike or the
> compactness of the VW over the stupidity of the Supersized Unnecessary
> Vehicle.
>
> You may argue that he was evil, but he was not about money like we are
> today. I don't believe though this a necessary outcome of democracy,
> so we are still dreaming of better worlds to come. Maybe we can even
> get a better leader in the future, who ultimately doesn't lead us into
> total war and the hate of one race or another.
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
> "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
> wrote in messagenews:3d7db044-9544-4982...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...> Well, not only he may have killed half of humanity to save the other
> > half (which could have helped an overcrowded planet),
>
> the planet was not overcrowded back then
> but in his> madness he may have chosen the simplicity of the bike or the
> > compactness of the VW over the stupidity of the Supersized Unnecessary
> > Vehicle.
>
> > You may argue that he was evil, but he was not about money like we are
> > today. I don't believe though this a necessary outcome of democracy,
> > so we are still dreaming of better worlds to come. Maybe we can even
> > get a better leader in the future, who ultimately doesn't lead us into
> > total war and the hate of one race or another.
>
> The concept of a Lone wolf Male Fck as a leader is dead
> Or maybe our species
Maybe is dead for now, but as resources become more scarce, nations
and warlords will fight it out to the bitter end, not unlike Easter
Island... "As the island became increasingly overpopulated and
resources diminished, warriors matatoa gained more power"...
Meanwhile the idea of a supernatural solution will become more
appealing to the masses...
http://pdelagrange.free.fr/povlab/demopic/moai.jpg
Or maybe we'll just go down in some nuclear holocaust, making it
easier.
Jym Dyer
>> the "Subject:' line would would be "No." But then again,
>> I have grey matter in my head instead of squashed bananas.
> to earth vehicle ever -- the VW.
=v= The most simple down-to-earth vehicle ever is the bicycle.
=v= It's misleading -- sometimes dangerously so -- to give
political leaders credit and glory for work that others did.
Hitler didn't "give birth to" the Volkswagen, nor did Mussolini
make the trains run on time.
=v= THE FACT IS, due to economic hard times there were a
number of "people's car" projects going on in the Weimar era.
Ferdinand Porsche's design for the classic Beetle (for which
he was paid by Hitler) was similar to other designs of the
era, but also somewhat better. The Nazis also built the
Volkswagen factory, but immediately dedicated it to building
military vehicles. Numerous Germans put their money into a
payment plan to get a Volkswagen, but none of them got one
while Hitler was in power.
=v= It wasn't until the British occupation that people were able
to get Beetles. While they looked old-fashioned for the time,
it was at this point -- well after Hitler's death -- that the
most crucial design decision was made: to *not* change the car
every year for fashion reasons. This made it possible to use
parts from any year with cars from any other year, and that's
what made the car so "down-to-earth" and successful.
<_Jym_>
TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
Beyond 5 miles, a simple car starts making sense. We are comparing
pears and apples. The bicycle is the most simple.
Hitler was an asshole, a criminal, a madman, but the DEMOCRACY IS FULL
OF DECEIT AND ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT MONEY.
Solution?
Rod Speed
>>> So I would think the answer to the apparent query in
>>> the "Subject:' line would would be "No." But then again,
>>> I have grey matter in my head instead of squashed bananas.
>> Oh c'mon, the fact is he gave birth to the most simple down
>> to earth vehicle ever -- the VW.
> The most simple down-to-earth vehicle ever is the bicycle.
The most simple down to earth vehicle is your legs.
> It's misleading -- sometimes dangerously so -- to
> give political leaders credit and glory for work that
> others did. Hitler didn't "give birth to" the Volkswagen,
Yes he did in the sense that without state funding of that operation, it wouldnt have happened.
> nor did Mussolini make the trains run on time.
Yes he did, essentially because he made his minions do it that way.
> THE FACT IS, due to economic hard times there were a
> number of "people's car" projects going on in the Weimar era.
Yes, but none of them except the VW got state funding.
> Ferdinand Porsche's design for the classic
> Beetle (for which he was paid by Hitler)
And would not have happened without Hitler paying for him to do that.
> was similar to other designs of the era,
Like hell it was.
> but also somewhat better. The Nazis also built the Volkswagen factory,
So that project would not have happened without that.
> but immediately dedicated it to building military vehicles.
Doesnt matter, without that initial funding, it wouldnt have
been produced that way after the war had ended.
> Numerous Germans put their money into a payment plan to get
> a Volkswagen, but none of them got one while Hitler was in power.
But did after the war had ended.
> It wasn't until the British occupation that people were able to get Beetles.
Irrelevant to what wouldnt have happened without Hitler.
> While they looked old-fashioned for the time,
No they didnt compared with say the Morris Minor etc.
> it was at this point -- well after Hitler's death -- that
> the most crucial design decision was made: to *not*
> change the car every year for fashion reasons.
That was just a detail, not a fundamental part of the design.
> This made it possible to use parts from any year with cars from any other
> year, and that's what made the car so "down-to-earth" and successful.
Wrong. It was successful because it was a much better design
than the other low end vehicles of that time like the Fiat and Morris etc.
Its design left the Fiat 500 and the Morris Minor for dead.
And I have owned all of those.
Jym Dyer
> = Rod Speed
>> Hitler didn't "give birth to" the Volkswagen,
> Yes he did in the sense that without state funding of
> that operation, it wouldnt have happened.
=v= If you'd refrained from the AHDD/Usenet practice of serially
flaming each sentence fragment, you'd've read my acknowledging
that Hitler commissioned Porsche to design a "people's car," and
funded a factory that was nominally supposed to build the car.
=v= Given that there was demand for a "people's car" all across
Europe, I suspect that someone else would have commissioned
Porsche, or the factory could've actually built a car, if Hitler
hadn't plunged the continent into war. To credit Hitler for a
thing that he ultimately impeded makes no sense to me.
>> nor did Mussolini make the trains run on time.
> Yes he did, essentially because he made his minions do it
> that way.
=v= This just shows that AHDD is no way to study history. The
rebuilding of Italy's train system after WWI was nearly finished
by the time Mussolini seized power. They cut back the schedule
to make it run on time, and loudly proclaimed that they made it
run on time, but in fact it did not.
=v= I find frustrating and more than a little bit alarming that,
half a century later after fascist Axis propaganda was debunked,
people still regurgitate it to prop up their stupid rhetoric.
(Some people even actually still believe Hitler was a vegetarian
because, gee! gosh! it's oh so ironic! And uninformed discourse
sinks even further into the morass of idiocy.)
<_Jym_>
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed
>> Jym Dyer wrote
>>> Hitler didn't "give birth to" the Volkswagen,
>> Yes he did in the sense that without state funding
>> of that operation, it wouldnt have happened.
> If you'd refrained from the AHDD/Usenet practice
> of serially flaming each sentence fragment,
You wouldnt know what a real flame was if one was applied to your lard arse.
> you'd've read my acknowledging that Hitler
> commissioned Porsche to design a "people's car,"
And that is part of giving birth to it.
> and funded a factory that was nominally supposed to build the car.
Which proves that he actually did give birth to it in the sense
that it wouldnt have happened without Hitler's actions.
> Given that there was demand for a "people's car" all across Europe,
Irrelevant to who gave birth to the *VOLKSWAGEN*
And those others didnt use the novel payment scheme Hitler used either.
> I suspect that someone else would have commissioned Porsche,
You can suspect whatever you like. Without someone to pay
for the building of the factory, that would have just been another
of Porsche's designs that never made it off the drawing board.
> or the factory could've actually built a car, if
> Hitler hadn't plunged the continent into war.
Yes, but without the govt funding of that factory, that wouldnt have happened.
> To credit Hitler for a thing that he ultimately impeded makes no sense to me.
More fool you when he clearly commissioned Porsche and paid for the factory to build it.
>>> nor did Mussolini make the trains run on time.
>> Yes he did, essentially because he made his minions do it that way.
> This just shows that AHDD is no way to study history.
You wouldnt know what real AHDD was if it bit you on your lard arse.
> The rebuilding of Italy's train system after WWI was
> nearly finished by the time Mussolini seized power.
Irrelevant to the separate issue of RUNNING ON TIME.
> They cut back the schedule to make it run on time,
So clearly he was involved in that attempt to get it to run on time.
> and loudly proclaimed that they made it run on time, but in fact it did not.
It ran a lot closer to on time than it had done previously.
> I find frustrating and more than a little bit alarming that,
> half a century later after fascist Axis propaganda was debunked,
> people still regurgitate it to prop up their stupid rhetoric.
I'm not frustrated at all by fools like you desperately attempting
to pretend that the likes of Hitler never did a damned hting.
> (Some people even actually still believe Hitler was a vegetarian
He was.
> because, gee! gosh! it's oh so ironic! And uninformed
> discourse sinks even further into the morass of idiocy.)
Your sig is supposed to have a line with just -- on it in front of it.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Jym Dyer wrote
>>> If you'd refrained from the AHDD/Usenet practice
>>> of serially flaming each sentence fragment,
>> You wouldnt know what a real flame was if one was applied to your lard arse.
> My lard arse?
Yep, your lard arse.
> If memory serves,
It doesnt, as always.
> you're the one addicted to fossil fuels;
Guess again.
> my ass is carfree and gets around by bicycle.
More fool you.
> I've been on Usenet since 1983,
Whoopy fucking do. Not as long as I've been around for.
> so I'm reasonably familiar with flaming.
Like hell you are. There was no flaming whatever in my original to you.
<reams of your puerile attempt at insults any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>
>>> Some people even actually still believe Hitler was a vegetarian
>> He was.
<reams of your puerile attempt at insults any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>