Mixing CFLs
Evelyn Leeper
(or CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real
concern, or just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
I ask because we have six floodlights in our den and I would like to
swap them for CFLs as they burn out, not discard five perfectly good
bulbs because I put a CFL in the one that burns out first.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Nobody believes the official spokesman ... but everybody
trusts an unidentified source. -Ron Nesen, 1977
JR Weiss
>I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands (or
>CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real concern, or
>just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
The latter. There's no reason you can't mix 'em.
albu...@mailinator.com
This is the manufacturer's subtle way of encouraging you to buy only
their brand. If you have a competing brand on the same circuit and it
lasts twice as long, they won't look too good. If there were any
scientific reason for not mixing, they would clearly state such on the
box.
hchi...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Also, mixing shows the light drop-off as various lamps age. An
incandescent generally dims very little, but CFLs can have
significantly reduced light output and shifts in color as they age.
One of the more startling experiences is to print a perfectly color
balanced photo on an ink-jet, and then use different types and ages of
CFLs to illuminate it. The dyes are reactive to particular bands of
the spectrum and the effects under different lights can be amazingly
diverse.
Dave Garland
> I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands
> (or CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real
> concern, or just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
There is absolutely no reason not to mix incandescent with CFL. I
can't think of any reason not to mix brands, and there isn't any
warning against mixing on any of the packages I have: GE, Buyer's
Choice, and "the brightest" (dollar store brand). So I think it's bogus.
Dave
Dave Garland
recessed fixtures. They don't make anywhere near as much heat as an
incandescent, but they're very much more sensitive to heat.
TKM
"Evelyn Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:499c25fd$0$16828$607e...@cv.net...
There's no electrical or safety reason not to mix different brands of CFLs;
but there could be an appearance reason. The color of CFLs (chromaticity)
can vary both lamp-to-lamp and manufaturer-to-manufacturer. Seen
side-by-side, any color differences among CFLs are very visible and the
variation is more than the color differences among standard household bulbs.
You can minimize color differences by using "Energy Star" CFLs. They are
tested and have to meet color requirements.
Otherwise, there are no agreed-upon color standards for CFLs other than what
the manufacturers impose upon themselves.
TKM
Jeff
> "Evelyn Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:499c25fd$0$16828$607e...@cv.net...
>> I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands (or
>> CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real concern, or
>> just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
>>
>> I ask because we have six floodlights in our den and I would like to swap
>> them for CFLs as they burn out, not discard five perfectly good bulbs
>> because I put a CFL in the one that burns out first.
>>
>> --
>> Evelyn C. Leeper
>> Nobody believes the official spokesman ... but everybody
>> trusts an unidentified source. -Ron Nesen, 1977
>
> There's no electrical or safety reason not to mix different brands of CFLs;
> but there could be an appearance reason. The color of CFLs (chromaticity)
> can vary both lamp-to-lamp and manufaturer-to-manufacturer. Seen
> side-by-side, any color differences among CFLs are very visible and the
> variation is more than the color differences among standard household bulbs.
I agree with TKM. The bulbs will look white until you put them side by
side, then you will see color casts. Fluorescent phosphors can vary widely.
>
> You can minimize color differences by using "Energy Star" CFLs. They are
> tested and have to meet color requirements.
All around good advice. You may also make sure that you are in the
same color family (warm or cool).
I expect/hope Don Klipstein will be around to fill in any details
we've missed.
Jeff
Gordon
news:O8Odna7r3rdY0gHU...@posted.visi:
> But do note that CFLs may not be a good choice for some enclosed or
> recessed fixtures. They don't make anywhere near as much heat as an
> incandescent, but they're very much more sensitive to heat.
My experience in shopping for CFLs recently has been that they
don't recomend them for use in enclosed fixtures. I didn't
see that warning on the package, but it was printed on the
ballast of the bulb in the package. I finnaly found a pair
of bulbs that didn't have the warning and were garenteed
to fire up at low temps. Since I was placing them in an
enclosed outdoor fixture...
Evelyn Leeper
We've been using them in enclosed fixtures for quite a while (if that
includes ceiling globes). Those were the first to be changed over,
because having to change the bulbs frequently is a nuisance, and putting
in CFLs meant not having to do that.
h
> Gordon wrote:
>> Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote in
>> news:O8Odna7r3rdY0gHU...@posted.visi:
>>
>>> But do note that CFLs may not be a good choice for some enclosed or
>>> recessed fixtures. They don't make anywhere near as much heat as an
>>> incandescent, but they're very much more sensitive to heat.
>>
>> My experience in shopping for CFLs recently has been that they
>> don't recomend them for use in enclosed fixtures. I didn't see that
>> warning on the package, but it was printed on the
>> ballast of the bulb in the package. I finnaly found a pair
>> of bulbs that didn't have the warning and were garenteed to fire up at
>> low temps. Since I was placing them in an
>> enclosed outdoor fixture...
>
> We've been using them in enclosed fixtures for quite a while (if that
> includes ceiling globes). Those were the first to be changed over,
> because having to change the bulbs frequently is a nuisance, and putting
> in CFLs meant not having to do that.
>
Agreed. Most of my lights are in enclosed fixtures (track, recessed, or
globe) and all my bulbs are CFLs. Never had any problems.
JR Weiss
> recessed fixtures. They don't make anywhere near as much heat as an
> incandescent, but they're very much more sensitive to heat.
I had a couple early CFL floods in the recessed fixtures in my kitchen
ceiling. When I took one out to clean, I noticed the tube was no longer
firmly attached to the base. The second one was the same. I replaced them
with newer versions, and have no problems with them.
Don Klipstein
>I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands
>(or CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real
>concern, or just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
I have not noticed that - can you name a brand that gives such advice?
I wonder if the brand you use or are considering does not want you to
notice that they are not as good as others.
>I ask because we have six floodlights in our den and I would like to
>swap them for CFLs as they burn out, not discard five perfectly good
>bulbs because I put a CFL in the one that burns out first.
For floodlights, mixing them may cause uneven lighting. For example,
reflectors of size good for incandescent filaments do not control/direct
as well light from the larger-size CFL bulb/tube. CFL floodlights tend to
make wider and/or and/or more-poorly defined beams and/or ones with
smaller percentage of light within the beam. Often that is not so bad in
a room whose ceiling is full of recessed lights having downlights. But
mixing them can cause hotspots, maybe with dimness elsewhere.
This is not a safety issue or one affecting life expectancy of the
lamps/"bulbs". It merely affects attractiveness and occaisonally
effectiveness of the lighting.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
JR Weiss
>
> For floodlights, mixing them may cause uneven lighting. For example,
> reflectors of size good for incandescent filaments do not control/direct
> as well light from the larger-size CFL bulb/tube. CFL floodlights tend
> to
> make wider and/or and/or more-poorly defined beams and/or ones with
> smaller percentage of light within the beam. Often that is not so bad in
> a room whose ceiling is full of recessed lights having downlights. But
> mixing them can cause hotspots, maybe with dimness elsewhere.
I don't find this a problem in my kitchen, once the CFLs are warmed up.
I put the halogen light in each bank (one of 4 lights, one of 2) in the
position where I work most often, so the "hottest" light is there. Indeed,
the CFLs are relatively more spread out, but they are not that noticeably
dimmer once I'm moving around and cooking. However, the CFLs are "120W
equivalent" and the halogens are 75W. Still, at 23W consumption, the CFLs
represent a significant savings...
Don Klipstein
All the best and good luck and everything else along these lines, but I
have a hard time finding 23 watt CFLs being equivalent to incandescents
and halogens beyond about 90 watts. I consider a 23 watt CFL claiming
equivalence to 120W incandescent to be inviting opportunities for
disappointment!
Maybe your 23 watt CFLs achieved what the 75 watt halogens achieved -
still very much quite a savings!!!
- Don KLipstein (d...@misty.com)
JR Weiss
>
> All the best and good luck and everything else along these lines, but I
> have a hard time finding 23 watt CFLs being equivalent to incandescents
> and halogens beyond about 90 watts. I consider a 23 watt CFL claiming
> equivalence to 120W incandescent to be inviting opportunities for
> disappointment!
>
> Maybe your 23 watt CFLs achieved what the 75 watt halogens achieved -
> still very much quite a savings!!!
I agree -- the CFLs are not anywhere as good as the halogens. The older
"90W equivalent" were pitiful indeed. The "120W equivalent" do not put as
bright a spot as the halogens, but they're spread out a bit more. Overall
they give a bit less light than the 75W halogens. OTOH, they take 1/3 the
power...
Now if I could only find suitable replacements for the 8 60W globes in the
dining room. maybe some fancy LEDs will come out soon...
Don Klipstein
>Now if I could only find suitable replacements for the 8 60W globes in the
>dining room. maybe some fancy LEDs will come out soon...
I think it will be a few years before there are good LED "bulbs" for
this. But in the meantime:
I would suggest CFLs in the 13-19 watt range. Ones in the 13-18 watt
range have a good rate of achieving "nicely warm color" if they are not
Sylvania brand (which is slightly more whitish in a way that easily often
"comes off as harsh"). In downlights and enclosed fixtures ones over 14
watts can overheat enough to get a slight and maybe significant color
shift to whiter or more greenish-whitish. The color shift is more obvious
when such CFLs are mixed with incandescents.
If the CFLs are in situations where they heat up enough to get
noticeably more whitish or greenish-whitish, and you mix them with
60W incandescents to have some units not subject to needing warmup, the
situation gets less bad if the 60W incandescents are either halogen ones
or ones rated both to provide at least 840 lumens of light and to have
rated life expectancy of 1,000 hours and not more.
Should you find CFLs intolerable here anyway, there is an
increased-efficiency halogen-incandescent available at Home Depot - the 40
watt Philips "Halogena Energy Saver", which produces 800 lumens. That is
comparable in brightness to 60 watt incandescents rated to last 1500-2000
hours, which I suspect to be such mildly extended life incandescents that
I have experienced so far to be usual Philips incandescents at Home Depot
(Disclaimer - though I have not paid much attention to Home Depot "A19"
incandescent fare specifically to wattage of 60 watts).
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)