Delivered unsafe item damaged me
john hamilton
well known national department store.
After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
want to pull it out using these.
So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
along the back of three fingers.
Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.
How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
My collegue suggests I should request �100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.
Existential Angst
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.
Can you document any psychological trauma?
If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
shit.... No foolin....
I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....
Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.
The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
expense???
No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
weight, but don't hold yer breath..
I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.
Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
pays....
fwiw.
--
EA
Mrcheerful
if you were pulling the item out then how did the back of your fingers get
damaged?
Colbyt
"john hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I suspect you will have very little luck at all. Undoubtedly somewhere in
the literature it says something about using an experienced qualified
installer.
This is a trend of the last 20 years. Most everything was semi-finished in
the past. In the world today nothing seems to have one. Nothing seems to
come with a rolled or smoothed edge. You can cut yourself on just about
everything.
Not very likely to change back anytime soon since everyone wants to buy it
cheap the seller wants to make it cheap and ....... well you get drift.
Colbyt
harry
> "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lots of stuff these days is made in third world countries with very
low standards. You can also get poisoned with lead, arsenic,
asbestos etc. etc.
DerbyDad03
re: "After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out.... Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out. "
Not everybody...
Ever heard of a box cutter?
Slit the corner seams of the box vertically so that it opens like
flower.
If you need to repackage the item, use strapping tape to put the box
back together.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
wrote:
> "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your reply might make more sense to a non-USA person if you used a
little bit more polite language and regular names instead of swearing
continually.
Tony Hwang
Laziness, stupidity, common sense, inexperience.
Peter Crosland
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ever heard of taking responsibility for your own actions? When opening
something like this the sensible way is to cut the corner seam so the box
can be opened rather like a flower. This makes it easy to re-seal if you
need to return the item. That way you can safely examine to goods before you
hurt yourself.Why do you think you can extort money from them to donate to a
charity?
Peter Crosland
Toom Tabard
The supplier (UK national store) is responsible. Suggest you take item
and packaging to your local trading standards and demonstrate the
issue to them. Consumer goods should not have hidden hazards in supply
and packaging. £100 to charity seems rather modest. You are fortunate
it was back of fingers - with front of fingers, nerves, veins and
arteries could have been damaged - it seems like an issue that
warrants immediate attention to ensure no-one sustains such injuries.
If the 'national department store' has a local branch, demonstrating
it to them would be useful, but you should also immediately write to
their supply address pointing out the danger; mentioning their
subsequent possible liability from criminal negligence after the issue
has been brought to their attention is sometimes a wake-up call
Toom
Rod Speed
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a well known national department store.
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
> lifted out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not want to pull it out using
> these.
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts along the back of three fingers.
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if its been stamped and not finished off
> along the sheared edge with a file.
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time again to other people. Because how I lifted
> it out is probably the way everybody else would try to lift it out.
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening again.
You cant. Even buying only the most expensive products wont ensure that.
> The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
And it was made in china.
> My collegue suggests I should request �100 to be sent to a charity,
And they will file the request in the round filing cabinet under their desk.
> since having to pay money
You cant make them do that.
> might make them actually make them take notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
> repeatedly happening.
Unlikely. Even if you can force them to pay that money, and you cant, its unlikey
that enough would do that to make it worth their while to fix the problem.
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable contribution.
You could try setting fire to yourself outside the Italian HQ.
Your only real option is to wear gloves when getting it
out of the box in that situation and file the edges yourself.
Ste
wrote:
>
> This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
> luck litigating this.
> Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
> bug in a yogurt.
I like to remind people that McDonalds got stung for having coffee too
hot because many customers had been injured and had previously
complained, but they found that the heat was necessary to create an
alluring coffee aroma, and so therefore made an economic decision that
it was acceptable for people to get scalded.
Rod Speed
I use the heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.
> How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.
They get someone to open it for them if they dont have heavy
duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.
> The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our
> CongressWhores! Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking
> agenda.... I can't cite the exact name of the bill, as I just read
> this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
> I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150
> lbs over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
> packages....
You can with heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.
> Just WHAT is the purpose to all this???
To stop people opening them in the store.
> And at what expense???
Peanuts, just a bit of plastic.
> No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the
> corporate policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting
> at a customer rep just makes their already-miserable lives more
> miserable. Presumably if 50% of the customer base lodged complaints,
> the statistics would carry some weight, but don't hold yer breath..
Not a chance with stuff made in china.
> I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit someone's wrist, if they slip in their
> efforts.
Thats why you use heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up chickens.
> Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the
> consumer's face by CorPirate Merka.
> Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and
> pays and pays....
You'll burst something if you dont watch out.
Toom Tabard
> "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no
hidden hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the
packaging
Toom
Toom Tabard
Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no
Doug Miller
>The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.
Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.
Doug Miller
>Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
>well known national department store.
>
>After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
>There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
>want to pull it out using these.
>
>So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
>along the back of three fingers.
Somehow, you managed to reach adulthood without learning that sheet metal
objects sometimes have sharp edges.
Somehow, you managed to reach adulthood without learning that one should wear
gloves -- or at least use caution -- when handling objects with sharp edges.
Somehow, you managed to reach adulthood without learning that it's unwise to
stick your unprotected fingers (see point 2 above) into places you can't see,
and wrap them around the edges of a sheet metal object that may have sharp
edges (see point 1 above).
Somehow, you managed to reach adulthood without learning the proper way to
open a carton to remove its contents.
Somehow, you managed to reach adulthood without learning that you -- not
someone else -- are responsible for your own foolishness.
Toom Tabard
> In article <8b89a318-0818-4064-985e-06e301e04...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.
>
> Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
> that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
> uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
> and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.
Total nonsesnse in terms of the law of negligence and legal liability.
There would have to be clear warning of the hazard of unpacking.
Toom
Toom Tabard
Toom Tabard
Total twaddle and nonsense in terms of the law of negligence and legal
liability.
For an item supplied to a consumer, there would have, at least, to be
clear warning of any hazard of unpacking.
Toom
Doug Miller
Does the law in the UK require prominent warnings, e.g. CAUTION! SHARP! on a
package of razor blades, or on a kitchen knife?
Some things are *inherently* dangerous, and only an ass fails to recognize the
risk.
Toom Tabard
>
> - Show quoted text -
It was a gas hob, not normally associated with a guillotining
capability. As I've stated, there would be reasonable expectation you
could reach in and unpack it without sustaining injury. If there are
exposed razor sharp edges then there would normally be an obligation
to install eg, plastic sheathing over the edges to prevent injury.
Otherwise, a very clear warning of the dangers of unpacking would be
necessary. You are totally out of your legal shallows commenting on
the issue.
Toom
Rod Speed
Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of it.
> - in an item supplied to a consumer, there should be no hidden
> hazard in any reasonable action to remove it from the packaging
Then theres the real world...
Toom Tabard
>
> - Show quoted text -
And the law in the real world supports what I said. If you dispatch
something with hidden and unexpected hazards which injure someone
taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable
for the injuries.
Toom
Doug Miller
>
>It was a gas hob, not normally associated with a guillotining
>capability. As I've stated, there would be reasonable expectation you
>could reach in and unpack it without sustaining injury.
And as I've stated, that's complete rubbish.
Apparently you also managed to somehow reach adulthood without learning that
objects made from sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges.
> If there are
>exposed razor sharp edges
They *weren't* "exposed", goof. They were *underneath* the item.
<plonk>
Toom Tabard
> In article <0b583763-74f0-4779-a6cd-8ae5d8bfc...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> >It was a gas hob, not normally associated with a guillotining
> >capability. As I've stated, there would be reasonable expectation you
> >could reach in and unpack it without sustaining injury.
>
> And as I've stated, that's complete rubbish.
>
> Apparently you also managed to somehow reach adulthood without learning that
> objects made from sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges.
>
> > If there are
> >exposed razor sharp edges
>
> They *weren't* "exposed", goof. They were *underneath* the item.
>
> <plonk>
expose - 'to leave uncovered or unprotected' - Oxford English
Dictionary.
It was obvious enough from your contributions that you are a plonker.
However, thanks for confirming that.
How self-perspicacious (That's in the OED too).
Toom
aemeijers
Learn how to unpack a box, and/or wear gloves. Many times with stuff
stuck in foam blocks, you have to lay it over on a side and shake it
out, or even open the bottom of the box and push it out. Not sure how
big a 'hob' is, since that is a term seldom used on this side of the
pond, but if it was too large to tip over, you do like other posters
said and cut the box away from around it.
(Looks in Google- okay, that seems to be the UK term for what we call a
drop-in or countertop multi-burner cooktop. Reading your post again, if
only the knobs were exposed, you stuck your hand in the area that would
normally be inset into the counter top, where sharp edges would not be
unexpected.)
Write a letter to the store and the manufacturer if it makes you feel
better. Complain to whatever governmental body regulates consumer
appliances over there. Or waste your money hiring a
lawyer/barrister/solicitor, or whatever you call hired guns over in the
UK. Or just write it off as a painful lesson learned, and move on. Next
box you unpack, I'd wager you don't make the same mistake again.
--
aem sends...
Existential Angst
news:7ud8ak...@mid.individual.net...
Yeah, but there's a whole expensive technology and machine support for this.
I mean, it's gotta be ridiciulous/overkill when it gets to the
CongressWhores.
>
>> No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the
>> corporate policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting
>> at a customer rep just makes their already-miserable lives more
>> miserable. Presumably if 50% of the customer base lodged complaints,
>> the statistics would carry some weight, but don't hold yer breath..
>
> Not a chance with stuff made in china.
>
>> I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
>> someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.
>
> Thats why you use heavy duty serrated edged scissors designed to cut up
> chickens.
Dats why I use a band saw -- a 16" DoAll, iffin anyone is innerested.....
I could also use a radial arm saw.....
>
>> Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the
>> consumer's face by CorPirate Merka.
>
>> Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and
>> pays and pays....
>
> You'll burst something if you dont watch out.
Dats why I gotta run so much, to keep the g-d blood pressure down....
That, and Haagen Dazs Coffee ice cream....
I'd leave Merka, but..... then I'd be butt another victim of her foreign
policy....
But being oppressed by a South American junta might not be so bad -- I'd go
for the occasional military home-invasion and ass-beating over this chronic
and relentless mindfucking in Merka....
Mebbe I could be Hugo Chavez' boy toy.....
--
EA
>
>
Rod Speed
>>> Total nonsense
> And the law in the real world supports what I said.
Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.
Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.
> If you dispatch something with hidden and unexpected hazards which injure someone
> taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable for the injuries.
Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.
Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.
It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use gloves or open the box like a flower or just
let the entire contents and its packaging slide out of the box onto the floor gently etc.
Existential Angst
news:a93f2f77-3984-4b3c...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
=========================================
Well, I *did* use "conjugal privilege" -- give some credit, dude!!!
Usually, it's a lot worse.... but I'm taking more meds, experimenting more
with dosages, AND reconciling myself to the inexorable process of Global
Social Darwinism.....
Which would be a lot easier to reconcile if Social Darwinism was an "us vs
them" scenario....
But it is not, because when *so many* people fall by the wayside of
unnatural social selection, it affects *everyone*.
It's like being a Navy Seal in a stadium stampede -- all that skill and
training don't help much.
--
EA
Existential Angst
news:hlrqno$i1c$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Doug,
Somehow, you managed to completely miss the point.
Somehow you manage to spend half of your useless life on UseNet without
getting an effing clue.
You think you're clever, but really you are just another semi-articulate
idiot.
--
EA
Existential Angst
news:da18b454-92f9-4537...@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Doug Miller is tool.
His vocabulary is above avg, but he still manages to write syntactically
correct nonsense, and thus, and chronically misses the point.
He gets big chubbies from putting people down, he's basically a sycophant of
the status quo. Anyone who deviates, in his petrified li'l mind, deserves
everything bad that may befall them, and he's always there to gloat.
Which is OK.... people like this usually get theirs...... or, have
already gotten it, which is why they are the way they are..
--
EA
>
> Toom
>
Doug Miller
Somehow, you managed to completely fail to grasp the concept: things made of
sheet metal often have sharp edges. Being careless while unpacking them often
results in cut fingers. The OP was careless. He got cut fingers. Maybe he'll
learn to be more careful next time.
Existential Angst
Spare us. goodgawd....
--
EA
>
johannes
I don't agree with you. Sheet metal edges should at least have been smoothed
out. OP could not have known that the unpacking needed to be done in a
particular sequence. OP obviously didn't cut his fingers voluntarily.
This is a serious issue IMO.
DerbyDad03
As per the OP: "So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then
received three deep cuts along the back of three fingers."
I'm still waiting for the answer to the question about how he cut the
*back* of three fingers.
DerbyDad03
How would you deal with this situation:
A friend was moving a recliner. As they turned the chair around a
corner, it "reclined" trapping his hand within the mechanism and
severely cutting his hand. There was nothing in the paperwork for the
chair that said to "Secure the chair to prevent reclination while
moving".
Whose responsible for his injury?
Toom Tabard
> > taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are legally liable for the injuries.
>
> Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.
>
> Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.
>
> It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use gloves or open the box like a flower or just
>
But a customer can reasonably expect to open a box and remove an item
in any way that seems reasonable without being exposed to injury from
exposed but not obvious 'razor sharp' edges.
My remarks regarding the suppliers liability for injuries are in
response to the claim by others that the OP is the author of his own
misfortune.
The OP seems to have acted as reasonable person would in unpacking an
item and trying not to damage it. His main concern is that similar
injuries will happen to others. That's why I've advised him to report
it to Trading Standards and to the suppliers. Trading Standards have a
responsibility if an item is faulty or dangerous. In this case, there
is no suggestion that the hob is faulty or dangerous in operation, but
it might be hoped they'd also take action where the supply and
handling of the item presents a clear and present danger (or refer the
OP to whoever has any responsibility). Similarly, it is important the
OP report the problem to the supplier. There is some evidence of
negligence (his actual injuries) in the supply of the goods. It
becomes a much clearer issue of negligence and liability if, after
having drawn the issue to their attention, they fail to take
reasonable and immediate action to prevent injury to others.
Toom
Rocinante
Your argument is invalid if there were no warnings stamped on the packing
box. Without warnings, a reasonable person (a legal term) would expect to
unpack an appliance in his own home without sustaining injuries.
--
"Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What!
You too? I thought I was the only one!'"
-- C.S. Lewis
Rocinante...@gmail.com
2/21/2010 3:22:46 PM
Toom Tabard
>
Negligence and liability cases are amongst the most variable and
varied legal issues. There are general principles but each case
depends on the individual circumstances. It might depend, eg on
whether there was an inherent design fault or specific mechanical
fault in the mechanism, or whether your friend was just careless of
his own safety. Nor does someone always have to be 'responsible'.
There may be no negligence as such. But in the case at issue, it would
normally be expected that you should be able reach into a package to
remove an item such as a hob in a reasonable manner without being cut
by unprotected 'razor sharp' edges. You would most likely be doing
what a reasonable person should be able to expect to do without
injury.
Toom
Tony Hwang
Negligent? Start with OP and you are same kind?
johannes
Yeah, as when I received my Phillips widescreen LCD monitor in the box. It was
locked to the vertical spring loaded support column with a pin. Appropriate
warning only to remove the pin when the monitor was placed upright on the table.
Just removing the pin when unpacking could cause a big surprise as the column
would expand in your face.
Rod Speed
The stupid that was too stupid to move it properly.
Same with the one that cuts itself when using a knife or a box cutter etc.
Rod Speed
>>> If you dispatch something with hidden and unexpected hazards which
>>> injure someone taking reasonable action as a consumer, then you are
>>> legally liable for the injuries.
>> Have fun getting damages in other than the stupid US legal system.
>> Its been completely off the rails for centurys now.
>> It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use gloves or open the box like a flower or just
>> let the entire contents and its packaging slide out of the box onto the floor gently etc.
> But a customer can reasonably expect to open a box and remove
> an item in any way that seems reasonable without being exposed
> to injury from exposed but not obvious 'razor sharp' edges.
And anyone with even half a clue realises that metal edges can be
sharp, particularly when the edges wont be exposed in normal use.
> My remarks regarding the suppliers liability for injuries are in response
> to the claim by others that the OP is the author of his own misfortune.
And as other pointed out, you dont see big warnings on
razor blades, box cutters and knives that they can cut you.
> The OP seems to have acted as reasonable person
> would in unpacking an item and trying not to damage it.
No reasonable person shoves his hand into some place he cant see
with a component that is meant be be installed before it is used.
> His main concern is that similar injuries will happen to others.
And that mentality sees fools demand big danger signs
on razor blades, box cutters and knives etc etc etc.
> That's why I've advised him to report it to
> Trading Standards and to the suppliers.
And that wont have any effect what so ever, you watch.
> Trading Standards have a responsibility if an item is faulty or dangerous.
It isnt either. A cut finger is not life threatening, which is why you
can buy razor blades, box cutters and knives any time you like.
> In this case, there is no suggestion that the hob is faulty or dangerous
> in operation, but it might be hoped they'd also take action where the
> supply and handling of the item presents a clear and present danger
Of a minor cut finger at worst.
> (or refer the OP to whoever has any responsibility).
Who will file any complaint he makes in the round filing cabinet under their desk where it belongs.
> Similarly, it is important the OP report the problem to the supplier.
Like hell it is.
> There is some evidence of negligence (his actual injuries) in the supply of the goods.
No more than with a razor blade or box cutter or knife that cuts someone.
> It becomes a much clearer issue of negligence and liability if,
> after having drawn the issue to their attention, they fail to take
> reasonable and immediate action to prevent injury to others.
Liability for a cut finger. Wow, talk about the end of civilisation as we know it.
Stormin Mormon
Probably better to cut all four, and then you are
closer to having the cardboard in smaller pieces
to put in the rubbish.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"DerbyDad03" <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
message
news:24087aa3-1a6a-4f87...@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Ever heard of a box cutter?
Slit the corner seams of the box vertically so
that it opens like
flower.
If you need to repackage the item, use strapping
tape to put the box
back together.
Tony Hwang
> Or, slit two seams and slide the item out.
> Probably better to cut all four, and then you are
> closer to having the cardboard in smaller pieces
> to put in the rubbish.
>
Not rubbish. Into the blue recycle bin!
Stormin Mormon
for life, the thought. I don't know how anyone
will ever associate with me ever again.....
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Loign.3943$XI1....@newsfe04.iad...
Rod Speed
> Stormin Mormon wrote
Mine isnt blue. Should I slash my wrists or just spree ?
Rod Speed
> Toom Tabard <to...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>> And the law in the real world supports what I said. If you
>> dispatch something with hidden and unexpected hazards
>> which injure someone taking reasonable action as a
>> consumer, then you are legally liable for the injuries.
> Who do I go after, since I've had "paper cuts" using a ream of paper?
That brown fella of course.
> My guess is those in the UK want sharp pointy sticks and sharp
> instruments to have a BIG ASS label on them (pencils/scissors).
They have ARSES not ASSES.
> I must have had 20 paper cuts over the years.
Obviously way past your useby date.
> The UK has the fourth (?) largest employer in the world (Health
> Care system). I figure they could fix cuts on a finger ... no wait....
Toom Tabard
The OP asked for advice. I've given him advice and stated how the law
normally operates in terms of negligence and liability in such
circumstances. It's informed and expert consumer and legal advice.
Your illogical ranting remains irrelevant.
Toom
Rod Speed
>> Like hell it is.
And got it.
> I've given him advice
Which was completely worthless.
> and stated how the law normally operates in terms
> of negligence and liability in such circumstances.
Like hell you ever did.
> It's informed and expert consumer and legal advice.
Everyone can see for themselves that it is nothing of the kind.
Brian Gaff
retailer, as they could be liable as well of course. Between them they ought
to be able to sort it. I suspect what will happen is that a nice printed
note will be put into the top of all packages telling the customer not to do
as you did!
Normally I've found that there is a kind of heavy duty plastic sheet of some
sort going down and under and up the other side capable of lifting the
item.
On very heavy items you are it appears encouraged by a little diagram to
dismantle the packaging in a certain way to avoid damage, though it does not
say whether the damage may occur to the item or to the customer!!
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"john hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
> a well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
> out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
> did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
> cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
> if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
> file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
> U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request �100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
> then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
> happening.
>
Toom Tabard
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm, as usual, happy to leave 'everyone' to judge the merits of my
contributions against those of the feeble-minded ;-)
Toom
Stormin Mormon
elected official in the nation and protest your
discrimination. Start a foundation called
Worldwide Home for Individuals Needing Equality in
Recycling. Then, we can all join, and become a
united nation of W.H.I.N.E.R.s.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:7ue8s1...@mid.individual.net...
Existential Angst
news:1alb4hwnumisd.1...@40tude.net...
I agree 100%, it is just about this simple.
Our main simpleton here not only just doesn't get it, but he *refuses* to
get it.
--
EA
Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal
wrote:
[100,000 lines of drivel snipped]
> Spare us. goodgawd....
And for the love of said God, everyone, learn to trim your posts.
--Eric Smith
Toom Tabard
We have no idea what you are complaining about. Perhaps that's because
you were over-zealous in trimming your post.
Toom
krw
<jo...@sizef726466242434242itter.com> wrote:
>
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <8b89a318-0818-4064...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Toom Tabard <to...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.
>>
>> Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
>> that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
>> uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
>> and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.
Agree 100%. Any idiot who sues over their stupidity should lose, and
pay the defendants lawyer, *big* time. It's time for Darwin to go to
work.
>I don't agree with you. Sheet metal edges should at least have been smoothed
>out. OP could not have known that the unpacking needed to be done in a
>particular sequence. OP obviously didn't cut his fingers voluntarily.
Perhaps not voluntarily, but being stupid was enough.
>This is a serious issue IMO.
Hogwash. The idiot cut his precious little finners. Too bad.
Rod Speed
> I'm, as usual, happy to leave 'everyone' to judge the merits of my contributions
They all did, and pissed on your shit from a great height.
Rod Speed
Go and fuck yourself.
And you need to learn how to do a sig.
The -- needs to be on a line by itself.
soup
> How would you deal with this situation:
>
> A friend was moving a recliner. As they turned the chair around a
> corner, it "reclined" trapping his hand within the mechanism and
> severely cutting his hand. There was nothing in the paperwork for the
> chair that said to "Secure the chair to prevent reclination while
> moving".
>
> Whose responsible for his injury?
Lets be really silly about it. A woman washes her poodle (stop
sniggering at the back that is not a euphemism) and decides to dry the
poodle in her microwave there was (at that time) no sticker that said
"do not dry poodles in this microwave" the dog died . Who is
responsible for the dogs death?
Especially in America for some reason there are lots of what seem to
be ridiculous warnings on consumer items. CYA in action?
soup
> And you need to learn how to do a sig.
> The -- needs to be on a line by itself.
There should be a space after the --.
Vic Smith
There should be no razor edges on metal appliances.
It's stupid and negligent.
Don't know where this guy grabbed it, but most likely it was a natural
place to put your hands any way.
I've pulled the top off plenty of stoves to get at burner heads or to
clean, and never found sharp edges. Worked on many stamped metal
items and didn't get cut.
Any time I did it was because of junky, negligent manufacturing, and I
cussed them a blue streak.
It is not rocket science to grind off burrs and edges on fabricated
metal products, and it is the norm.
I've worked shears, stamping, pressing and there was always a guy
whose responsibility was to grind off rough, sharp edges.
Guess what he was called?
A GRINDER! Jesus H. Christ.
Whether there is any recourse for the guy cut I don't know.
I've just used some peroxide and a band-aid.
But if this guy can ram that stove top up the ass of the manufacturer,
that's fine with me.
--Vic
michael adams
"Toom Tabard" <to...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.
An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.
michael adams
...
Vic Smith
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>"Toom Tabard" <to...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>
>Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
>handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
>or similar professional.
>
>An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
>But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>
Perhaps, perhaps not. But if cutting edges were commonly on a
product, he would no doubt recommend against using it.
>The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
>case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
>fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>
>Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
>be an entirely different thing.
>
Those who have never worked in manufacturing seem to think that
cutting edges and burrs are normal if hidden from the consumer.
They are not, and are routinely removed as part of the manufacturing
process,
Not just for the consumer or tradesman, but for the workers in the
plant who perform other processes on the piece after stamping/cutting.
Beyond injury, deburring and removing cutting edges is cheaper than
replacing sliced gloves.
Most likely the edges that injured the OP was an oversight and a
one-off. If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in
other ways too.
--Vic
DerbyDad03
> "Toom Tabard" <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
his hand."
What?
You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do you?
I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.
After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm only
responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.
Harry K
> On 21 Feb, 17:26, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> > In article <8b89a318-0818-4064-985e-06e301e04...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.
>
> > Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
> > that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
> > uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
> > and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.
>
> There would have to be clear warning of the hazard of unpacking.
>
> Toom
Yes, one can always find a sleaze ball lawyer to sue over something
that is the complainers fault.
Harry K
michael adams
On Feb 23, 7:22 am, "michael adams" <mjadam...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> "Toom Tabard" <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>
> Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
> handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
> or similar professional.
>
> An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
> But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>
> The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
> case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
> fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>
> Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
> be an entirely different thing.
>
> michael adams
>
> ...
> re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
> who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
> his hand."
> What?
...
In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.
Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the experience to
forstall such problems.
The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by professional
tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little "handies" as
a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool for the job, they then
start to blub like little children. And start demanding that the "naughty man"
should be made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !
HTH
michael adams
posting on uk.people.consumers
....
Rod Speed
Fantasy. They have been seen in the cheapest PC cases for decades.
> If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in other ways too.
Yes, one with filed edges would certainly be a higher quality product,
but that does not mean that one without them wont work fine.
DerbyDad03
> "DerbyDad03" <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote in message
re: "In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional
installers of all sorts of things."
I know what you meant by a "fitter".
However, I still don't agree with your point that a consumer should
never handle a gas hob.
Using US terminology, I'm not a "contractor" but I bought all of my
windows and doors from a "contractor's supply house".
They weren't packaged any differently than the windows and doors you'd
buy from a "consumer's supply house"
I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing supply
house. They weren't packaged any differently than the fixtures at the
big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
during shipping/storage.
If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
"handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
or proof of training. Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.
Toom Tabard
> "Toom Tabard" <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
Nope. It would not be unusual for a consumer to unpack a gas hob,
install it and connect it if it is to a simple user connect point.
Only needs a fitter if gas fittings themselves need installed and
consumer doesn't have the necessary competence.
Toom
michael adams
By definition the OP didn't have the necessary competence in this situation
otherwise he wouldn't have cut his hand. Having the necessary competence
must embrace an element of knowing what to expect.
Nearly every stainless steel sink I've ever seen has had steel locating
tabs at right angles around the underside of the sink complete with screw
holes. The edges of these tabs are always sharp - they're straight out of
a press and could easily cut the hand of anyone foolish enough to reach
their hand inside the carton to lift out the sink by that means. But nobody
is ever reported as having done so because people familiar with sinks will
know what to expect.
As it happens IIRR the OP didn't mention whether there was a manual that
came with his hob. Had there been such a manual, quite possibly it would
have advised not only the wearing of gloves, but also goggles and a safety
helmet. And in a room with adequate ventilation just so as to cover all
the bases.
michael adams
...
Rod Speed
Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.
> I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
> supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
> the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
Same with taps etc too.
> re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
> opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
> Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
> people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
> during shipping/storage.
> If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
> "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
> substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
> or proof of training.
Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.
Ste
>
> > re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
> > opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
> > Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
> > people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
> > during shipping/storage.
> > If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
> > "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
> > substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
> > or proof of training.
>
> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
>
> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out
of your arse?
joe parkin
It is not illegal to sell unsuitable fittings and appliances but to
install one would be illegal, so check suitability before purchase. The
regulations detail standards for suitability and the Water Fittings and
Materials Directory, published by the WRAS, gives up-to-date details of
a wide range of items which have been tested and proved to comply, when
installed correctly, and can be accessed from their website.
--
Skippy
wrote:
The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered too stupid to
do their own plumbing or electrics
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> Are you joking sarcastically,
Nope.
> or are you just talking completely out of your arse?
Nope, talking about the situation in some jurisdictions.
Ste
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:50:18 -0800 (PST), Ste <ste_ro...@hotmail.com>
Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are no
restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except that the work
must be performed "competently".
Rod Speed
> Skippy <cobbl...@invalid.com> wrote
>> Ste <ste_ro...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
>>>>> opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
>>>>> Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
>>>>> people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
>>>>> during shipping/storage.
>>>>> If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
>>>>> "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
>>>>> substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a
>>>>> license or proof of training.
>>>> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
>>>> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
>>>> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
>>> Are you joking sarcastically, or are you just talking completely out of your arse?
>> The fuckwit lives in australia where they are considered
>> too stupid to do their own plumbing or electrics
> Ah, my apologies to him then. Here in the UK, there are
> no restrictions on gas fitting in one's own home, except
> that the work must be performed "competently".
We arent even allowed to change the tap washer in some
states, let alone install the plumbing or do the electrical wiring.
Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.
DerbyDad03
Is that just a casual observation or were you trying to make a point?
>
> > I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
> > supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
> > the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
>
> Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
>
> Same with taps etc too.
Again...Your point?
>
> > re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
> > opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
> > Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
> > people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
> > during shipping/storage.
> > If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
> > "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
> > substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a license
> > or proof of training.
>
> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.
The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently at
the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.
>
> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled". Is there a
legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?
>
> Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.
*handled* my friend, *handled*.
krw
Bullshit.
>Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.
Course everyone should ignore Ronnie Reaugh.
Rod Speed
>>>>> Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>>>> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>>>>> Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
>>>>> handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
>>>>> or similar professional.
>>>>> An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
>>>>> But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>>>>> The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
>>>>> case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
>>>>> fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>>>>> Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
>>>>> be an entirely different thing.
>>>>> re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to
>>>>> someone who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he
>>>>> wouldn't have cut his hand."
>>>>> What?
>>>> In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
>>>> of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter etc etc.
>>>> Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.
>>>> A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the
>>>> experience to forstall such problems.
>>>> The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by
>>>> professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.
>>>> "Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little
>>>> "handies" as a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool
>>>> for the job, they then start to blub like little children. And
>>>> start demanding that the "naughty man" should be made to pay money
>>>> to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"
>>>> Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !
>>>>> You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do
>>>>> you? I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or
>>>>> bath fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the
>>>>> other things I've "fitted" into my house.
>>>>> After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".
>>>>> I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm
>>>>> only responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.
>>> re: "In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional
>>> installers of all sorts of things."
>>> I know what you meant by a "fitter".
>>> However, I still don't agree with your point that a consumer should
>>> never handle a gas hob.
>>> Using US terminology, I'm not a "contractor" but I bought all
>>> of my windows and doors from a "contractor's supply house".
>>> They weren't packaged any differently than the windows
>>> and doors you'd buy from a "consumer's supply house"
>> Plenty of other stuff is tho, most obviously with yorkshire fittings for copper plumbing etc.
> Is that just a casual observation
Nope.
> or were you trying to make a point?
I succeeded in making a point, even if you are too stupid to have noticed.
The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.
>>> I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
>>> supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
>>> the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
>> Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
>> Same with taps etc too.
> Again...Your point?
See above.
>>> re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
>>> opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
>>> Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
>>> people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
>>> during shipping/storage.
>>> If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
>>> "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
>>> substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a
>>> license or proof of training.
>> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
> The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.
It was.
> The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
> at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.
Pity about other stuff that is.
>> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
>> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
> I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".
Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.
> Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?
Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.
>> Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.
> *handled* my friend, *handled*.
Use, no friend of mine, use.
Rod Speed
> Bullshit.
Fact.
DerbyDad03
Name calling. That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
have him think that something intelligent might follow.
> The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
> supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.
No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.
Please show me where I said that every item from both sources is
packaged the same. In response to the claim that certain packaging
types were meant to be open by professionals only, I noted that a few
products that can be purchased by a "consumer" (Toom's word) from
"professional sources" - and typically installed by professionals -
were packaged the same as at the borg. Chucking out a random thoughts
on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.
>
> >>> I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
> >>> supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
> >>> the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
> >> Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
> >> Same with taps etc too.
> > Again...Your point?
> See above.
See above.
>
> >>> re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
> >>> opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
> >>> Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
> >>> people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
> >>> during shipping/storage.
> >>> If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
> >>> "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
> >>> substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a
> >>> license or proof of training.
> >> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
> > The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.
> It was.
Now *that's* a substantial response.
>
> > The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
> > at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.
> Pity about other stuff that is.
Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to
whether certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals
only? As an example, you brought up an item that is "loose in bins".
How is that even remotely relevant to a discussion about whether
packaging is intended for "professional opening" vs. "consumer
opening"?
>
> >> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
> >> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
> > I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".
> Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.
Are you sure you understand what my claim was? It appears not.
>
> > Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?
> Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.
But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for
"professional opening only" which is the *only* claim I was responding
to.
> >> Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.
> > *handled* my friend, *handled*.
> Use, no friend of mine, use.
Oh, be nice.
>
> >>> Absent those restrictions, anyone, consumer or
> >>> professional, is allowed to "handle" the product and it's their
> >>> responsibility to take the proper precautions when doing so.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
krw
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Cite.
>>> Corse everyone ignores the ban on changing the tap washer.
Ronny Reaugh is as full of shit as he normally is.
Nightjar
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
If I knew something was made from pressed steel and thought there was a
chance I might be lifting it by an edge, I would put on kevlar gloves,
which I keep in my toolbox against any such risk.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out...
If I take the lid off something that has no obvious way to be lifted out
of the bottom part, I put the lid back on, turn the whole lot upside
down and lift the bottom part off, which has always worked for me.
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
>>>>>>> What?
>> Nope.
> Name calling.
Nope, accurate characterisation.
> That's always a good way to draw a listener in and to
> have him think that something intelligent might follow.
There is never anything intelligent in your shit.
>> The point is that the packaging with stuff from contractors
>> supply houses can be very different to the packaging for retail.
> No one said that packaging couldn't be different for different items.
You did stupidly claim that the packaging isnt different with
goods from contractors supply houses. That is just plain wrong.
> Please show me where I said that every item from both sources
> is packaged the same. In response to the claim that certain
> packaging types were meant to be open by professionals only,
Please show me where I ever said you did.
> I noted that a few products that can be purchased by a "consumer"
> (Toom's word) from "professional sources" - and typically installed
> by professionals - were packaged the same as at the borg.
And you fucked that up completely too with door and windows.
> Chucking out a random thoughts
Everyone can see for themselves that they werent anything like random, fool.
> on other items is not relevant to the discussion at hand.
Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.
>>>>> I'm not a plumber, but I bought my fixtures at a plumbing
>>>>> supply house. They weren't packaged any differently than
>>>>> the fixtures at the big box stores, where "consumer's" shop.
>>>> Bet the yorkshire fittings were. Mine are loose in bins etc.
>>>> Same with taps etc too.
>>> Again...Your point?
>> See above.
> See above.
See above.
>>>>> re: "The packaging being complained of is intended for
>>>>> opening by professional tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs."
>>>>> Again, I beg to differ. Packaging isn't "intended" to be opened by
>>>>> people of a certain occupation. It's intended to protect an item
>>>>> during shipping/storage.
>>>>> If the item in question should never have been (to use your word)
>>>>> "handled" by the consumer, then it should have been a "controlled
>>>>> substance" and he shouldn't have been able to buy it without a
>>>>> license or proof of training.
>>>> Thats wrong too, most obviously with yorkshire fittings.
>>> The word "too" implies that what I said earlier was wrong. It wasn't.
>> It was.
> Now *that's* a substantial response.
It was elaborated elsewhere, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
>>> The products I mentioned earlier were not packed any differently
>>> at the contractor/plumbing supply houses than at the borgs.
>> Pity about other stuff that is.
> Again, why is the "other stuff" relevant to the discussion as to whether
> certain packaging is intended to be opened by professionals only?
Because it blows your stupid claims completely out of the water, fool.
> As an example, you brought up an item that is "loose in bins".
> How is that even remotely relevant to a discussion about whether
> packaging is intended for "professional opening" vs. "consumer opening"?
Its a clear example of where there is no packaging
whatever with stuff intended for professional fitting, fool.
>>>> They arent legal to use by ordinary consumers who arent legally
>>>> allowed to do their own plumbing but are sold freely anyway.
>>> I do believe the word I (and Toom) used was "handled".
>> Irrelevant to your stupid claim about packaging.
> Are you sure you understand what my claim was?
Yep.
> It appears not.
Its obvious you never can bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>> Is there a legal restriction against "handling" the products in question?
>> Irrelevant to whether its legal for the consumer to use.
> But relevant to the discussion of whether packaging is intended for "professional opening only"
Plenty of it is.
> which is the *only* claim I was responding to.
By making a complete fool of yourself, as always.
>>>> Same with GPOs etc too, they arent legally usable by the consumer either.
>>> *handled* my friend, *handled*.
>> Use, no friend of mine, use.
> Oh, be nice.
Corse you always do that yourself, eh ?
DerbyDad03
Since the rest of the drivel you've spouted in this response isn't
even worth addressing, I'll simply point out the error in the above
statement since it appears to be the crux of your misunderstanding.
It's OK that you've dug yourself into a deep hole...let me help you
get out.
I specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *windows and
doors* was no different than the packaging for the *windows and doors*
at the borgs. Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all
you want. It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.
I also specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *bathroom
fixtures* was no different than the packaging for the same *bathroom
fixtures* at the borgs. Feel free to claim that that "is just plain
wrong" all you want. It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.
I know what I bought and I know how they were packaged at both
sources. I don't recall you being around at the time of the purchases,
so tell me how you know that they weren't packaged the same.
Wait...no, don't bother...I don't plan to help you understand the
situation any further once I finish this post, so you'd be wasting
your time by responding - unless it will make you feel better. If it
will, then by all means, call me whatever names you'd like, insult my
family, etc. If it's therapeutic to you, go ahead. After all, I'm just
here to help.
It's been nice chatting with you.
Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>> What?
>>>>>>>>> I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP.I'm
>>>> Nope.
>>> Name calling.
>> Nope, accurate characterisation.
Corse that wouldnt be you doing any name calling, eh ?
> isn't even worth addressing,
You never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
> I'll simply point out the error in the above statement
There is no error in the above statement.
> since it appears to be the crux of your misunderstanding.
Then you need to get your appears machinery seen to.
> It's OK that you've dug yourself into a deep hole...
Corse that wouldnt be you doing any name calling, eh ?
> let me help you get out.
You never can.
> I specifically pointed out that the packaging for my *windows and doors* was
> no different than the packaging for the *windows and doors* at the borgs.
Irrelevant to what was actually being discussed, gas hobs.
> Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all you want.
I know its just plain wrong because I physically built my house from scratch myself.
> It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.
It is in fact a lie.
> I also specifically pointed out that the packaging for
> my *bathroom fixtures* was no different than the
> packaging for the same *bathroom fixtures* at the borgs.
Irrelevant to what was actually being discussed, gas hobs.
> Feel free to claim that that "is just plain wrong" all you want.
I know its just plain wrong because I physically built my house from scratch myself.
> It won't change the fact that it is 100% true.
It is in fact a lie.
> I know what I bought and I know how they were packaged at both sources.
Pity you have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
What you may or may not have bought in spades.
> I don't recall you being around at the time of the purchases,
> so tell me how you know that they weren't packaged the same.
Because I bought all of that stuff myself.
> Wait...no, don't bother...I don't plan to help you understand the
> situation any further once I finish this post, so you'd be wasting
> your time by responding - unless it will make you feel better.
> If it will, then by all means, call me whatever names you'd
> like, insult my family, etc. If it's therapeutic to you, go ahead.
> After all, I'm just here to help.
> It's been nice chatting with you.
Its been an obscenity reading your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your predicament.
Any 2 year old could leave it for dead.
ivor bigun
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
>
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
> carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.
Should always wear gloves when handling anything metal im sure the
packaging would have even stated this.. common sense eh !!!!!
sf
<blue...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
> again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
>
We pay extra to have it carried into the house and unpacked. Now you
know why.
> My collegue suggests I should request �100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
> carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.
That's too silly to take seriously.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.