Will an oil-filled radiator save me money?
Joe
ft Cape Cod house. At $3 per gallon that's $400 to heat my house! I've
been reading about oil filled radiators and I read one person's acct
that he was using it to heat a 600 sq foot area and it only cost him
10kwh a day. At my extremely high electricity rate of .22/kwh I would
seemingly still be saving a ton to heat my house if I bought two of
these heaters and ran them all day. ($66x2=$132.) Is that possible?
What am I missing?
Jeff
The calculation
If 1 gallon of heating oil has 139,000 BTU and your furnace is 880%
efficient then you are getting 111,000 BTU heat per gallon. That's
37,000 BTU/$
For electricity you get 3340 BTU/kWh One dollar buys you 15,181 BTU,
more than twice the cost of your oil.
Now, electric heaters are great for spot heating, if you can turn
down the heat elsewhere it may work out for you.
With all things heating, insulate, cover your windows and eliminate
any air leaks.
Jeff
Shawn Hirn
<fcf54fe3-975b-44e5...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Joe <joe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
your home to be? How well insulated is your home? How's the air
circulation? The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400, so give it a
try and see how it works out for you.
Joe
>
> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
> your home to be?
right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
How well insulated is your home?
It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
down on the residual heat circulation.
How's the air
> circulation?
Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
downstairs to stay warm at night.
The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400, so give it a
> try and see how it works out for you.
$200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the $40-$70
rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
freeisbest
> I'm running through around 132 gallons of oil per month in my 1300 sq
> ft Cape Cod house.
If you live alone, have more than one thermostat, and have sliding
glass doors anywhere, I imagine you've already moved your winter
quarters to the easiy-to-heat part of the house, and turned down the
thermostats on the heat-wasting rooms. So that's done.
> At $3 per gallon that's $400 to heat my house! I've
> been reading about oil filled radiators and I read one person's acct
> that he was using it to heat a 600 sq foot area and it only cost him
> 10kwh a day. At my extremely high electricity rate of .22/kwh I would
> seemingly still be saving a ton to heat my house if I bought two of
> these heaters and ran them all day. ($66x2=$132.) Is that possible?
> What am I missing?
At first reading, it appears that consulting with your local
utilities company and also experiment in the real world are missing.
We don't have enough information to be very helpful. For instance,
are your house walls insulated? Do you have storm windows? Do you
live in on a heavily forested north slope in Maine?
When we used two oil-fired radiatiors some years ago (in NC), we
found that any kind of blown-in or pumped-in wall insulation saves on
your heat bill by as much as 50%.
When we used two oil-fired radiators some years ago (in NC), they
added some heat to a room already at least moderately heated by other
means, but there was no way the ones we had could have heated an
ordinary room, let alone a whole house.
clams casino
>On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
>>your home to be?
>>
>>
>
>right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
>socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
>
I'm in a short sleeve T shirt - 66F - very well insulated (2x6
construction).
Joe
>
> At first reading, it appears that consulting with your local
> utilities company and also experiment in the real world are missing.
> We don't have enough information to be very helpful. For instance,
> are your house walls insulated? Do you have storm windows? Do you
> live in on a heavily forested north slope in Maine?
Yes I believe my walls are insulated yet there seems to have been some
obvious settling over the years? Can I blow in extra insulation? How
does that work? The house is located in lower CT. It gets cold but
rarely lower than the 20's although it can spend a whole month there.
I wasn't thinking I'd be able to turn off my oil heat, but maybe I
could lower it to the mid 50's at night and part of the day so it
cycles less, just wondering if anyone else has used oil heaters to
augment and save.
Lou
"Joe" <joe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:566833c7-3dc2-4d8d...@p1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
> > your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>
> How's the air
> > circulation?
>
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
My Dad grew up in a farmhouse in central Massachusetts in the 1920's. There
was no heat on the second floor where the bedrooms are, and he says he used
to sleep with the window open even in midwinter. I don't know how much of
that is hyperbole, but if you're cold at night, there are alternatives to
running the furnace.
The first is pyjamas. The next is a quilt on the bed. The next (my
favorite) is an electric blanket with a light cover over it to keep cold air
from seeping in at the edges. Combine your choice of these with a
programmable thermostat so that you don't get up to a freezing cold house in
the morning. The effect of cold windows can be mitigated with well fitted
shades and closeable curtains.
Jeff
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
>> your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago.
Single pane windows never had much insulative properties. Seal any air
leaks you feel, whether with caulk or tape. If you don't need
transparency on a window consider a layer of bubble wrap. Otherwist
heatshrink. If you have money, storm windows.
And do what freeisbest has suggested.
If you have no insulation in the walls, put some in. Blown in
cellulose is cheap and very effective.
Now consider where all your heat is going out. It's going out big
time in any drafts. It's going out through your windows. It's going out
through your walls. It's going out through the ceiling and also through
the floor. Anywhere that the other side is colder than the inside heat
is travelling to.
A layer of bubble wrap or heatshrink (if you need transparency) will
cut the heat loss through your windows in half.
Blowing in cellulose in your walls will cut heat loss by 80% over
uninsulated walls. You'll need to drill 1" holes between every stud,
details are here:
<URL: http://www.cocooninsulation.com//>
Two people can insulate the walls in a house in two days.
You can not make an uninsulated house comfortable adding heat. Trust
me on that!
I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
level.
BTW, radiant type heaters will work better in drafty rooms than
forced air. The heat from the forced air leaves with the drafts.
I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>
> How's the air
>> circulation?
>
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
>> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400, so give it a
>> try and see how it works out for you.
>
> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the $40-$70
> rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
My $35 Delonghi (from Lowes) work well and appear to be well rated.
My Soleous from Frys has had to have it's thermostat replaced.
Jeff
>
Joe
> I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
> 70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
> floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
> insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
> it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
> level.
>
How can I tell by touch that my walls need more insulation? I thought
last year that my walls suffered from inadequate insulation but then I
felt the walls of my front hallway which are definitely not insulated
and they were freezing. My inside walls were just cold. But I've felt
the walls of newer houses and they were cold too, not as cold as mine
but still cold to the touch. I did some cursory research on blown in
insulation last year and I remember reading that it is only
recommended for use in uninsulated walls. Is that true?
Jeff
> On Dec 21, 10:30 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
>> 70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
>> floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
>> insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
>> it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
>> level.
>>
>
> How can I tell by touch that my walls need more insulation?
Chances are that you do not have any kind of blown in insulation in
the walls. That didn't exist 50 years ago. Hence no settling. You may
have settled insulation in the attic though. Blowing in insulation in
the attic is very easy.
You may have fiberglass batts, in which case you do nothing, or you
may have nothing.
Look in your walls. Take out an outlet box if need be and see what is
in there. It's hard to tell by touch, even with an IR thermometer it is
not always obvious what is uninsulated.
50 years ago adding a layer of fiberboard underneath the siding was
considered insulating your walls, trust me on this, it is not.
I thought
> last year that my walls suffered from inadequate insulation but then I
> felt the walls of my front hallway which are definitely not insulated
> and they were freezing. My inside walls were just cold. But I've felt
> the walls of newer houses and they were cold too, not as cold as mine
> but still cold to the touch.
Don't go by touch.
Jeff
Rod Speed
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you
>> prefer your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>> How's the air circulation?
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
Makes a lot more sense to do the bed better for that.
> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
>> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400,
>> so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the
> $40-$70 rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
Makes a lot more sense to heat the bed with an electric pad etc.
Joe
Yeah well, I have a couple of children that have a penchant for
knocking their covers off in the middle of the night so I have to keep
the heat in the low sixties in case.
Rod Speed
Just do the covers better so that doesnt happen.
** Frank **
Shouldn't be too much of a problem to fine free firewood. A free standing or
fireplace insert with forced air would heat up 1,300sf area in a few hours.
I wonder if your system could (or if its legal) run on used engine oil? You
could go around and collect all the used engine oil, maybe they even pay you
to hall it away. We have people use old kitchen grease to run diesel cars.
You could have free electricity with a modified diesel generator set on used
kitchen grease, so go buy a few oil filled radiators.
Attic insulation would get the best bang for the dollar. I would use a heavy
sheet (like 6 mil) of clear plastic over the windows until you get some
funds for double or triple pane windows.
Hey you could forget the whole thing and move to sunny Southern California,
like San Diego, and enjoy the good weather all year long. Houses are much
cheaper now in California.
Lou
No you don't - it's more likely that they're knocking the covers off because
they're too warm than it is that they'll freeze because they've knocked the
covers off in a cold bedroom.
Gini
"Joe" wrote
...................
>
> Yeah well, I have a couple of children that have a penchant for
> knocking their covers off in the middle of the night so I have to keep
> the heat in the low sixties in case.
That's what pajama sleepers are for. You can even layer them.
That worked quite well when we lived in an uninsulated 19th century
farmhouse with nothing more than
a wood stove for heat. Mornings were a little nippy--frost on the windows
and such.
Rick
You said in an earlier post that you just bought this house last year.
Wasn't any of this - insulation or the lack of it - discovered in the
inspection? (Please tell me you didn't buy the house without getting an
inspection...) If it was inspected the person *must* have looked in an
attic or crawl space and could have given an assessment regarding
insulation in a matter of minutes - heck seconds - just by looking in
the attic.
Rick
Jeff
> Joe wrote:
>> On Dec 21, 10:30 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
>>> 70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
>>> floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
>>> insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
>>> it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
>>> level.
>>>
>> How can I tell by touch that my walls need more insulation? I thought
>> last year that my walls suffered from inadequate insulation but then I
>> felt the walls of my front hallway which are definitely not insulated
>> and they were freezing. My inside walls were just cold. But I've felt
>> the walls of newer houses and they were cold too, not as cold as mine
>> but still cold to the touch. I did some cursory research on blown in
>> insulation last year and I remember reading that it is only
>> recommended for use in uninsulated walls. Is that true?
>
> You said in an earlier post that you just bought this house last year.
> Wasn't any of this - insulation or the lack of it - discovered in the
> inspection? (Please tell me you didn't buy the house without getting an
> inspection...)
You would be surprised what isn't covered in an inspection. I have
friend that bought a house that had 4 inspections before closing. Those
inspections never revealed that the heating/AC didn't work, that the
plumbing was disconnected in numerous places. And some other glaring
faults that I noticed in 5 minutes.
Now, a lot of people are keyed into attic insulation, because heat
rises. But heat will escape through any surface where it is colder on
the other side. It is very easy to add attic insulation but is of little
help if your walls/floor are heat porous.
Lets take a 30' x 40' house, That's 1200 SF of floor and attic space
and roughly 1200 SF of wall space.
Lets insulate the attic to R15, at 40 F colder outside than in that's
2400 BTU/hr. That's a bit less that half a single electric space heater.
Double that insulation and you get a quarter of an electric space
heater. Diminishing returns.
Now lets assume the walls are uninsulated with single pane windows.
That's about R2, that's 24,000 BTUs each hour fleeing. Or almost 5 space
heaters running full blast. Insulate those walls and you'll take away 4
space heaters, instead of a fourth of a space heater.
Note that even if you insulate everything you will still have loss
through infiltration. Sealing air leaks should be job one. An average
insulated house will lose one third it's heat through air leaks.
My math may be a bit off, it's early...
Jeff
Gary Heston
Joe <joe...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
>years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
>thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago.
Go to a home center and get a batch of the shrink-film window cover
kits (one per window and a few spares--they're cheap, especially in
the multiple window kits). Wal-Mart also has them. Install one on
each window; also pick up some tubes of latex caulk and caulk around
the window casings. This will greatly reduce heat loss.
If you have any attic access doors or hatches, cover those as well. I
have an access hatch in each house, and decided to put the shrink film
over them a few years ago; as I was installing it, the film was getting
sucked up against the hatch! With the hatch covered, the house became
far more comfortable and the heater runs much less.
> I've
>somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
>the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
>stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
>down on the residual heat circulation.
[ ... ]
The cold walls mean they're not insulated; your floors probably are not
insulated either. There's probably a little insulation in your attic,
but not likely enough by current standards. Start working on upgrades
over the next few years, they'll pay off.
You can use incense sticks to locate air leaks; they're cheap and safe,
since they don't have an open flame.
Gary
--
Gary Heston ghe...@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
Yoko Onos' former driver tried to extort $2M from her, threating to
"release embarassing recordings...". What, he has a copy of her album?