Low water toilets false frugality
Annie Woughman
(ugly colored ones from the 60's) with new Kohler "5-star flush system"
toilets. These toilets are supposed to be good for the environment because
they use less water for each flush. The problem being--over 75% of the time
the toilet has to be flushed at least twice to get everything to go down.
Ours are even worse because they have the elongated bowl, so toilet paper
usually lands in the front of the bowl and then it never gets washed down
with the first flush and even sometines on the second flush. Also, the
consumer isn't given a choice, because the older style toilets using more
water per flush are not available for purchase. You would think that at
some point they would have tested the newer toilets to make sure they were
in fact actually using less water in everyday household use.
Rod Speed
> We did a little remodeling last year and replaced both our older
> toilets (ugly colored ones from the 60's) with new Kohler "5-star
> flush system" toilets. These toilets are supposed to be good for the
> environment because they use less water for each flush. The problem
> being--over 75% of the time the toilet has to be flushed at least
> twice to get everything to go down.
Thats because you are very shitty 'people'
> Ours are even worse because they have the elongated bowl, so toilet paper usually lands in the front of the bowl and
> then it never gets washed down with the first flush and even sometines on the second flush. Also, the consumer isn't
> given a choice, because the older style toilets using more water per flush are not available for purchase.
They do have ones that work properly tho.
> You would think that at some point they would have tested the newer toilets to make sure they were in fact actually
> using less water in everyday household use.
Corse they did, and they do.
Siskuwihane
Rod knows a lot about flushing since he spends hours flushing "reams
of puerile shit where it belongs".
N8N
You mean Usenet?
nate
Dennis
I installed Gerber power flush toilets in my house and they have never
failed to clear the bowl on the first flush. That's over 10 years,
with 3 children in the house. They were top-rated by Consumer Reports
at the time.
Now there are also conventional flush toilets that are as highly
rated. Look at the Toto line.
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
clams_casino
We have a Kohler low flush that has always worked fine - over eight
years now. Could be the model. Could the tank possibly need an
adjustment?
Siskuwihane
No, GM stock.
Siskuwihane
We do too, but ours are 1.6 GPF where as some of these newer models
are .8 GPF.
Don't know what the OP's is, I believe they also meant "Class 5"
instead of "5 Star" flushing system which is anywhere from 1.28 GPF to
1.4 GPF.
Al Bundy
Some (most) of the early designs were terrible. There have been
several generations in design since and now they work very well. I
just worked on a Mansfield 1.3gpf. Only half the tank emptied out at a
flush. That's the way it was designed with that flush valve. It works
very well and never needs extra flushes. This one is about eight years
old too.
Still, there is nothing to compare to a Furgeson.
John Weiss
>
> I installed Gerber power flush toilets in my house and they have never
> failed to clear the bowl on the first flush. That's over 10 years,
> with 3 children in the house. They were top-rated by Consumer Reports
> at the time.
>
> Now there are also conventional flush toilets that are as highly
> rated. Look at the Toto line.
Indeed! I bought a Toto Drake (long bowl, ADA height) several years ago. It
worked so well that I replaced all the toilets in my house with them. We've
NEVER required a double-flush, and they are quiet.
Lots of info at http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm
Jeff
I have friend that worked for Toto, spoke fluent Japanese. They have
toilets that do more than you'd expect or perhaps want from a toilet.
Just don't lose the remote!
Jeff
>
> Dennis (evil)
hchi...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:52:27 -0800, "Annie Woughman"
><anniew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>We did a little remodeling last year and replaced both our older toilets
>>(ugly colored ones from the 60's) with new Kohler "5-star flush system"
>>toilets. These toilets are supposed to be good for the environment because
>>they use less water for each flush. The problem being--over 75% of the time
>>the toilet has to be flushed at least twice to get everything to go down.
>>Ours are even worse because they have the elongated bowl, so toilet paper
>>usually lands in the front of the bowl and then it never gets washed down
>>with the first flush and even sometines on the second flush. Also, the
>>consumer isn't given a choice, because the older style toilets using more
>>water per flush are not available for purchase. You would think that at
>>some point they would have tested the newer toilets to make sure they were
>>in fact actually using less water in everyday household use.
>>
>
>I installed Gerber power flush toilets in my house and they have never
>failed to clear the bowl on the first flush. That's over 10 years,
>with 3 children in the house. They were top-rated by Consumer Reports
>at the time.
I guess if it makes the food coming into the kids, the company knows
how to dispose of the waste.
>Now there are also conventional flush toilets that are as highly
>rated. Look at the Toto line.
Composting toilets mean never having to flush.
FWIW, our low head heads seem to work more or less OK. I won't go
into details.
Al Bundy
>
> I have friend that worked for Toto, spoke fluent Japanese. They have
> toilets that do more than you'd expect or perhaps want from a toilet.
> Just don't lose the remote!
>
> Jeff
Yes, it could be uncomfortable if you were in there and the kid was
playing with the remote in another room.
Seerialmom
No, they meant 5 Star; that's how they're advertised at the big home
improvement stores. I've been considering some lately and that's
where I've seen the ratings. BTW I like this one toilet that has a
dual flush system; 2 buttons on the top, one for #1 and one for #2
(decides how much flushing power is needed).
Don Klipstein
> We did a little remodeling last year and replaced both our older toilets
> (ugly colored ones from the 60's) with new Kohler "5-star flush system"
> toilets. These toilets are supposed to be good for the environment because
> they use less water for each flush. The problem being--over 75% of
> the time the toilet has to be flushed at least twice to get everything
> to go down.
1. Most loads to be flushed by toilets are #1 loads. Even a lousy
stool specimen of a low flush toilet only needs 1 flush to flush those.
2. Those getting low flush toilets should do their homework. I now see
low flush toilets that flush #2 loads as well as I ever saw a toilet of
any kind flush a #2 load. Do your homework and you can get a decent low
flush toilet rather than a stool specimen so lousy that some would think
it was sabotaged to protest mandates for low flush toilets.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
tween...@mypacks.net
wrote:
Maybe you have the kind which gives a heavy flush and a light one?
Are ppl in your house aware of this and flushing accordingly. I am
very pleased with my low usage bathroom "applicances".
You might talk with your family about mellow and brown, if you get my
drift.
E Z Peaces
grams. Several gravity-fed Kohler low-flush elongated-bowl models, such
the Wellworth Class 5 EL, will dispose of 1000 grams in a flush, so you
would need to flush only after every third or fourth sitting. On the
other hand, the Wellworth EL will dispose of only 250 grams.
Here are test results for 700 toilets:
http://www.cuwcc.org/assets/0/28/1264/1292/1370/1C037608-E64F-4AAC-AFC0-901DB9DD168D.pdf
Siskuwihane
Ok, but one of Kohlers flushing systems is called the "Class Five™
flushing system".
Kohler doesn't have anything called "5 Star flush system" as stated,
sounds like something the Home Depot/Lowes uses in store with a lot of
other products.
bungalo...@yahoo.com
wrote:
yea it's what happens when you get environmentalist designing toilets
instead of engineers
it's not that I mine multiple flushes, it's the wait inbetween flushes
that's a killer
BTW the old fashion chain pull gravity boosted toilets can suck down a
watermelon with a gallon of water, you can still buy them
SoCalMike
and it seems to work just fine on one flush. older models really didnt
work well.
youre sure the water level in the tank is where it should be?
E Z Peaces
In the 1980s, I chose and installed a 1.6-gallon toilet that flushed
well. I moved. About 2000, relatives replaced it with a toilet that
needs multiple flushes even for urine.
Many models flushed well, but many didn't. People in the business
realized there would be far fewer complaints if those that wouldn't
remove 250 grams in one flush could be identified and avoided. Since
2003, most of the bad ones have disappeared. Of 700 models tested this
year, only 11 failed. The worst was the American Standard Cadet EL, at
125 grams.
Vortens-Lamosa is a state-of-the-art Mexican manufacturer. Earlier this
year, apparently the only Vortens-Lamosa toilet sold by Lowes was the
Pegasus Tulip EL. It has no flapper valve. Tests showed that it would
get rid of 400 grams in one flush, so it should be adequate for
households without elephants.
Zar
>
This is what we have. You usually press the low flush for pee and the
stronger plush one other than peeing.
Seerialmom
That's right and that's where I saw those "star" systems used. Of
course the ratings could be arbitrary based on profit margins, too.
Seerialmom
Does it work as well as advertised? I haven't seen them in the big
box stores so I'm presuming I'd have to hit up a specialty retailer.
Chris
> We did a little remodeling last year and replaced both our older toilets
> (ugly colored ones from the 60's) with new Kohler "5-star flush system"
> toilets. These toilets are supposed to be good for the environment
> because they use less water for each flush. The problem being--over 75%
> of the time the toilet has to be flushed at least twice to get
> everything to go down.
>
You did not mention this, so I have to ask. My toilet has a short and a
long flush, meaning that if I keep the lever down a second or so it will
discharge more water, usually enough to avoid having to flush again.
If I hit and immediately release the lever it will discharge only about
half of the water in the tank.
May be you should look into this if yours doesn't have the same feature
h
"John Weiss" <jrw...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gfa7to$l86$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> "Dennis" <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote...
> Indeed! I bought a Toto Drake (long bowl, ADA height) several years ago.
> It
> worked so well that I replaced all the toilets in my house with them.
> We've
> NEVER required a double-flush, and they are quiet.
>
> Lots of info at http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm
>
Agreed. I checked out that site when I remodeled a bathroom two years ago. I
got the Toto Drake Ultimate one-piece, and it's 100% better than the old
high-flow toilet we had in there. I found a site that shipped it for free,
overnight, for around $450. In the past two years we have never had to flush
twice, never had to plunge, and it's whisper quiet. The weirdest part is
that the bowl stays much cleaner than the old high flow. What's not to love?
When we build an addition next year both new bathrooms will be getting these
toilets.
Wilm...@gmail.com
that if it is yellow let it mellow, if it is brown flush it down. I am
willing to bet my per person average toilet water usage is better than
most.
Also, if is red run to the doctor.
Dennis
wrote:
>Vortens-Lamosa is a state-of-the-art Mexican manufacturer. Earlier this
>year, apparently the only Vortens-Lamosa toilet sold by Lowes was the
>Pegasus Tulip EL. It has no flapper valve. Tests showed that it would
>get rid of 400 grams in one flush, so it should be adequate for
>households without elephants.
In Mexico the plumbing is so bad that it is customary to put the used
toilet paper in the waste bin in public restrooms rather than flushing
it. My (gringo) friend who worked as a janitor in southern California
was not pleased to learn about this custom first-hand. ;-)
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
joshh...@fastmail.fm
E Z Peaces
What a backward country! Don't they have handkerchiefs?
In the test, a machine deposits condom-cased "sausages" into the bowl.
Then an engineer drops in four wads of toilet paper. The toilet must be
flushed 9-11 seconds after the paper is dropped.
Lamosa, started in 1890, is said to be the fourth largest manufacturing
company in North America. Their Vortens subsidiary started in 1996.
Maybe they saw a big market for modern plumbing in Mexico. They brag
about low prices, crediting automation.
Of 31 Vortens toilets tested in 2008, one cleared 300 grams, which is
the 95th percentile for North American poops. Ten cleared 350, which is
the 99th percentile. The other twenty cleared more.
The Real Bev
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:29:21 -0500, E Z Peaces <ca...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Vortens-Lamosa is a state-of-the-art Mexican manufacturer. Earlier this
>>year, apparently the only Vortens-Lamosa toilet sold by Lowes was the
>>Pegasus Tulip EL. It has no flapper valve. Tests showed that it would
>>get rid of 400 grams in one flush, so it should be adequate for
>>households without elephants.
>
> In Mexico the plumbing is so bad that it is customary to put the used
> toilet paper in the waste bin in public restrooms rather than flushing
> it. My (gringo) friend who worked as a janitor in southern California
> was not pleased to learn about this custom first-hand. ;-)
Perhaps that explains the Tijuana men's room just over the border. I am
informed that even early in the morning holding one's breath while doing
one's business is essential.
I did not check the ladies'.
--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
The Real Bev
> You would think that at
> some point they would have tested the newer toilets to make sure they were
> in fact actually using less water in everyday household use.
Do not expect rationality when the intent is to be seen to protect the
environment.
--
Cheers, Bev
==================================================
Segal's Law: A man with one watch knows the time.
A man with two is never sure.
viet nam vet.
>
> You did not mention this, so I have to ask. My toilet has a short and a
> long flush, meaning that if I keep the lever down a second or so it will
> discharge more water, usually enough to avoid having to flush again.
>
> If I hit and immediately release the lever it will discharge only about
> half of the water in the tank.
You can convert an old toilet to do this , by replacing the chain inside
with a solid metal rod. You might have to hold the handle down for more
that a second or so. Hold it till the job is done.
Enjoy .
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.
Jerry Trumball
> Annie Woughman wrote:
>
>> You would think that at some point they would have tested the newer
>> toilets to make sure they were in fact actually using less water in
>> everyday household use.
>
> Do not expect rationality when the intent is to be seen to protect the
> environment.
>
Fake ID
viet nam vet. <george...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>In article <gfc4hp$don$1...@aioe.org>, Chris <ch...@chris.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> You did not mention this, so I have to ask. My toilet has a short and a
>> long flush, meaning that if I keep the lever down a second or so it will
>> discharge more water, usually enough to avoid having to flush again.
>>
>> If I hit and immediately release the lever it will discharge only about
>> half of the water in the tank.
>
>You can convert an old toilet to do this , by replacing the chain inside
>with a solid metal rod. You might have to hold the handle down for more
>that a second or so. Hold it till the job is done.
>Enjoy .
Or fill the bulb on the flapper with silicone caulk.
m
aine...@gmail.com
costs for the maintenance and water bill..
all the things i can suggest is either u change the toilet bowl or u
bear the cost..
xoxo,
aineecumi
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