Telling salesman the drive out price on a car purchase up front?
zcar...@yahoo.com
dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
drive out price.
My other question is financing. The dealerships have been providing
great interest rates compared to the banks, credit unions. Is it
possible to negotiate on a rate from dealership if my credit is very
good and the rate they offered is not to my liking or is that usually
etched in stone?
Thank you.
clams_casino
>I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
>dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
>instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
>title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
>question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
>like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
>drive out price.
>
>
>
>
While I'm a firm believer in knowing one's maximum price before seeking
a deal, I wouldn't tip that hand to the dealer until late in the
negotiations. With internet purchases, the dealer will usually supply
their lowest price. It is important to identify if there are any added
costs (handling fees, etc) so there are no surprises. Preparation fees
(often times not disclosed unless directly requested) can range from
perhaps $29 up to several hundred dollars. Once a dealer provides a
price, do ask / document if there are any other fees. A reputable
dealer will provide / identify / break down the final price plus taxes,
title & other fees. Be sure to understand the components of the total
price.
That said, don't assume the internet price will be the best price. I
did find two cars to be best priced via internet, but my last car
(Honda) was advertised nearly $1K less in a newspaper ad compared with
the best Internet quotes I was able to obtain. It was late in
January a few years ago where the dealer was obviously wanting to move
some new cars.
Contrary to what a lot of dealers will claim, Edmunds does provide
realistic dealer costs, although the manufacturer-to-dealer kickbacks
& dealers acceptable markup (which does vary significantly between
dealers) may vary significantly from published pricing.
George Grapman
The last two times I purchased a car I told the dealers what I was
spending and asked them what they had for that price will all taxes and
fees included. Most could not deal with this.
Don K
news:5ZIyj.12010$0M3....@newsfe17.lga...
> zcar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
>>dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
>>instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
>>title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
>>question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
>>like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
>>drive out price.
>>
>>
>>
>
> While I'm a firm believer in knowing one's maximum price before seeking a deal, I
> wouldn't tip that hand to the dealer until late in the negotiations. With internet
> purchases, the dealer will usually supply their lowest price. It is important to
> identify if there are any added costs (handling fees, etc) so there are no surprises.
> Preparation fees (often times not disclosed unless directly requested) can range from
> perhaps $29 up to several hundred dollars. Once a dealer provides a price, do ask /
> document if there are any other fees. A reputable dealer will provide / identify /
> break down the final price plus taxes, title & other fees. Be sure to understand the
> components of the total price.
>
I've had good results getting competitive quotes thru both Edmunds and
Auto-by-Tel.
Getting quotes from several dealers on the exact options you want, can
be a pretty good reality check, even if you go into the dealership to haggle.
But if you do, don't allow a dealer to just meet the lower-quoted price. Make
him beat it. Try to reward the guy who isn't trying to rip you off as much.
Also with internet sales, make sure they don't add on junk when you go
in to sign the papers. If they do, refuse to pay for it and be prepared
to walk away from the deal. My sister didn't, and she just paid another
60 bucks for some wheel locks and mudflaps she didn't want.
Don
George Grapman
floor mats at well over $100. I actually had to get up and ask if he
wanted to lose a sale over that amount. Wound up paying $20 at an auto
parts store.
George Grapman
Then count the number of customers.
Logan Shaw
> I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
> dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
> instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
> title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
> question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
> like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
> drive out price.
I think this can be a good strategy provided one thing: you do your
research first, and you know the right number. If your number is too
high, they're going to just say "yes" right away, and you'll have
gotten a non-optimal deal. If you number is too low, everyone is
going to say "no", and if you don't change strategies quick enough,
you'll have called all the dealers around and they'll all be on to
your game. In other words, if you have to call a dealer back after
saying, "I won't pay more than X dollars," then they're now in a
position to know you are willing to pay more than X, because
otherwise you wouldn't be calling back.
Anyway, having said all that, I have a friend who bought a car using
exactly the strategy you're describing. She was buying an economy
car, didn't what options were on it, what color it was, or anything
else (except that it had to be a stick shift), and had determined that
$12,000 was a good price for that car. So she just kept calling
dealer after dealer asking if they'd sell her that model for $12,000,
and if they tried to negotiate a higher price, she'd stop them and
basically say that it was a yes/no question, and if the answer was
no, she was going to call another dealer. I've forgotten the exact
details, but I believe she called 10 or 15 dealers and got a bunch
of responses like "no, we can't do that" and "we won't do that, and
you won't find anyone else who will either", until she eventually
got one that said "sure", and so she bought the car from them.
On a side note, that car now has 315,000 miles on it and she's
still driving it. When you spread the initial cost of the car
over the number of miles, it's less than 4 cents/mile. :-)
> My other question is financing. The dealerships have been providing
> great interest rates compared to the banks, credit unions. Is it
> possible to negotiate on a rate from dealership if my credit is very
> good and the rate they offered is not to my liking or is that usually
> etched in stone?
I've never gotten a loan from a dealer, but I have a few comments:
(1) According to everything I've ever read, you should agree on a
price before even TALKING about the loan. The oldest trick
in the book is to take away on the loan what they give on the
price, or vice versa. It's a method the dealers use to hide
the numbers and confuse the issue. By agreeing on one thing
before you even discuss the other, you're able to compare
the loan they're offering you with a loan offered by a bank
or credit union, and they have to compete for the loan on a
level playing field with other potential lenders.
(2) Everything is negotiable. Especially at a car dealership.
When they tell you it's not negotiable, they're LYING.
At apartment complexes, leasing agents are trained not to
negotiate, partly because the property management companies
are afraid of Fair Housing Act lawsuits. Nevertheless, I've
managed to talk apartment people down on the rent at least
twice. When I bought a computer years ago (back when all
computers were around $1500 at least, and some were $3000),
I talked to the computer dealer down by about $250. The
point is not that I'm a great negotiator (I'm not); instead,
it's that in many situations where things are supposedly not
negotiable, they really are. A "no haggle" policy is really
just a way of saying, "If you hate haggling, come to our
store, and we'll help you solve that problem by charging
you full price."
One final piece of advice, just in case you haven't dealt with
car dealers before: they are going to play hardball. Prepare
for emotional manipulation on a scale rivaling that of the
craziest person you've ever dated. It is possibly going to be
bad enough that it is disorienting and confusing, and you may
find yourself wanting to just get it over with just to get out
of there. Preferably you never get to this point because you
shut them down and take control of the situation before they
get the opportunity to control it, but if it does get to this
point, stick to your guns and don't let them wear you down.
- Logan
skar...@gmail.com
expect to pay little more.
I wouldn't suggest telling the dealer what you are willing to pay.
Here are the steps you need to take:
1) Decide which vehicle and what options you want. You have to
finalize this... otherwise, everything becomes hazy at the time of
purchase.
2) Do your own research (Edmunds) and determine the price.
3) If you know of anyone who has the same vehicle, ask to see the
receipt. If not, find a relevant newsgroup and request for the price
people have paid. Compare the price with Edmunds' and document the
lower price for the base and for each of the options.
4) Invite quotes from 4 or 5 dealers. Tell them exactly what you want
and emphasize that you don't want anything else unless they give it to
you for free.
5) Pick the dealer that gives you the lowest quote. If the total price
is less than your research, go ahead and buy. If not, ask if they can
beat your research amount.
6) Visit the dealer, but be prepared to leave empty handed. Decide in
the first 15 minutes whether the dealer looks like he'll honor the
quote or is he going to add more costs.
I personally would let go of $100 or so if that meant less haggling
and less heartache and resulting in time savings. You have to decide
how frugal you want to be.
After you make the purchase, don't go out of your way to find out if
you paid too much.
zcar...@yahoo.com
heart! I really appreciate this!! Printing out this thread right now!!!
zcar...@yahoo.com
So don't come up with drive out price? If i don't , i would think the
dealer would add more fees to the car that would drive up the drive
out price which is the reason i wanted to come up with a drive out
price to begin with.
George
They all seem to be on the same page as other merchants where they can
never tell you the actual cost of something. It always turns into the
stupid "let me put your information into the computer and it will tell
us what monthly payment you can afford..."
Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply
>
> They all seem to be on the same page as other merchants where they can
> never tell you the actual cost of something. It always turns into the
> stupid "let me put your information into the computer and it will tell
> us what monthly payment you can afford..."
I sort of gave up on buying cars from automobile dealers when I kept
getting the same two lines from a couple of different places.
1. When you buy a car, you have to throw your budget out of the window.
2. Tell us what monthly payments you can afford or what you want your
existing car's trade-in value to be, and we will work out a deal that
will satisfy those two, but we can't guarantee you anything else.
William Souden
did not tell the dealer. I negotiated on price knowing that they had
more leeway due to the extra money they get on financing but when it
came time to sign the contract I told them I had decided to pay cash.
They mumbled something about having to redo the pricing but stopped when
I reminded them that it was illegal to have different pricing for cash
and credit,
SMS
> I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
> dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
> instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
> title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
> question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
> like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
> drive out price.
I would not do it this way. I'd e-mail several dealers with a request
for a quote, rather than telling them what you'd pay.
Actually I wouldn't do this way at all. The last two vehicles I bought,
and the last I assisted with, were all very low advertised prices for
popular vehicles, well under dealer invoice (one Camry, one Accord, one
4Runner). They still make money because the invoice price is not the
same as the dealer cost, but they usually do this because they know that
on a good percentage of the sales they'll be able to make money on
financing, WAOs (worthless add-ons), extended warranties, etc.
> My other question is financing. The dealerships have been providing
> great interest rates compared to the banks, credit unions. Is it
> possible to negotiate on a rate from dealership if my credit is very
> good and the rate they offered is not to my liking or is that usually
> etched in stone?
It's highly negotiable. Arrange financing in advance. If they can beat
it then take their's. Sometimes, despite laws against it, prices are
dependent on taking the financing. I got hit with that once when the car
we had signed for suddenly became "unavailable" with a cock and bull
story about how it had been damaged, repaired, but not cleared by Toyota
to sell. This was at West Covina Toyota in Southern California. When I
came back the next day, I bought the car, with their financing, then
paid it off right away.
There should be no "garbage fees." Ask them what their fees are in
advance, and then deduct them from any offer, so they can add them back
and feel good.
SMS
> That said, don't assume the internet price will be the best price. I
> did find two cars to be best priced via internet, but my last car
> (Honda) was advertised nearly $1K less in a newspaper ad compared with
> the best Internet quotes I was able to obtain. It was late in
> January a few years ago where the dealer was obviously wanting to move
> some new cars.
I found the same thing. A dealer had an "all at this price" sale, which
was a couple of hundred dollars less than the best price I could find
on-line. I calculated the dealer cost from the invoice price, and the
factory to dealer incentives. Several other dealers tried to add on the
fake "ad fee" which is actually reimbursed to them by the manufacturer,
but the one I bought it at didn't do this, so they were about $500 less
than the closest other dealer.
> Contrary to what a lot of dealers will claim, Edmunds does provide
> realistic dealer costs, although the manufacturer-to-dealer kickbacks
> & dealers acceptable markup (which does vary significantly between
> dealers) may vary significantly from published pricing.
The invoice pricing is accurate, but figuring out dealer costs is often
more difficult. On Toyota's there's 2% holdback, 2% advertising fee, and
1% WFR. The holdback and WFR are fair game, but the dealer does pay into
cooperative advertising funds, which is what the ad fee kickback covers
(however some dealers try to add this fee onto the final price, even
though they aren't actually incurring it). What's really hard is to find
out the factory to dealer incentives, which often vary by region. I.e.
in California, the southern California incentives to dealers on Toyotas
and Lexuses are often much higher than the Northern California
incentives. So you have a lot of buyers from Northern California heading
south to buy cars. In general, the southern California new car market is
much more competitive, so you usually get a better deal, but of course
it has to be a significant amount to make it worthwhile to go down
there. We saved about $1500 on a Camry, but on the 4Runner the savings
were smaller so I didn't go down to get it.
George Grapman
that their worst nightmare was a customer stating a final price and
having them match a car to that price.
They also told me some funny customer stories. When a car has a
$25,000 sticker price they can accept a customer claiming that another
dealer has it for $23,000 even if they know that is not true but that
have to control their laughter when the customer says it is $15,000. In
my work when that happens I simply tell the customer I can not beat the
price and (a) they should buy from the competitor and (b) give me their
name because their price is lower than what my distributor charges me
but car dealers never want to see a customer walk away.
Another one is the customer with horrible credit who arranges the
price and then submits the application thinking that because the dealer
invested the time they will carry the paper for a person making minimum
wage who has two repos on their record.
Speaking of credit checks a dealer once lost a cash sale because he
wanted to run a check on me. He said they needed to know who they were
doing business with. I showed them my license and then they said they
had to be sure my check was good. I offered to go to a nearby branch of
my bank and get a cashiers check. They tried to tell me state law
required a credit check. I left.
Another time I signed a contract and a dealer promised delivery in
three days because a new shipment was arriving the next day . When I got
home another dealer called to see if I had made a purchase. When i told
him he said that the next boat load of Hondas was not arriving until
next week. Sure enough, the first dealer called with excuses about the
car. I had to file a complaint with DMV to get my deposit back. Even
then they dated the check on a Monday and it had a postmark the
following Friday.
SMS
Not sure where you are, but in my area there is a well-regarded service
called CarBargains. "http://www.checkbook.org/auto/carbarg.cfm".
Read "http://www.checkbook.org/auto/todayshow.cfm"
I've never used them, but it _might_ be interesting to spend that $160
and see if you can get a better price. This is a service only in the SF
Bay Area.