Buying a fleet vehicle AND dickering with a used car salesman
Wooly
opportunities?
++++
When dickering for with the dealer for a used car is there a rule of
thumb for making an initial offer?
The dealer bought the car at auction, for how much I know not. KBB
lists the trade-in value at $16,500 and it is stickered at $20,000. I'm
willing to pay $18,500 cash and I have no trade-in. Should I make a
one-time cash offer with the cashier's check in hand - and be prepared
to walk away if they turn me down?
The car has been on the lot for a month. The car is in excellent
condition and has 4 years remaining on the original manufacturer's
warranty. I have to travel ~300 one way to get the car.
Chloe
"Wooly" <nobody@nunya> wrote in message
news:46d42458$0$32490$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
What does KBB list as the retail value?
Wooly
> What does KBB list as the retail value?
KBB lists the likely retail as $21000 with no discount for the
"excessive" mileage. The $20k list price seems to account for that.
I'm going to make a WAG here and suppose the dealer paid less than
"excellent trade-in" value at auction. I'd expect $2k over high trade
value to cover the dealer's time-and-tool investment in reconditioning
and to give both the salescreature and the dealership a slice.
But I could be wrong, hence my query. I typically buy my used cars via
private party sales, this is my first go with a dealer for a used car.
Bill
that and could be something like $18,321.65. Also some car dealers may have
a certain name on the sign out front, but might want checks payable to some
other name (like something or other auto group). Then these days they may be
able to take a personal check and process it as an electronic transfer -
possibly no need for cashiers check.
Start by pretending to be interested in less expensive cars. Say you only
want to spend $15,000. The salesman will try to get you to buy something
more expensive.
Don't say you have cash. They make additional money from financing, so get
the final purchase price before you tell them you are paying cash.
So let him show you the more expensive cars and the car you really want.
Say you like the car you really want. Point out anything wrong you can find
with it. Scratches, high mileage, anything wrong with interior, etc.
Say you like it, but it is not worth that much due to all the problems you
found, plus you only want to spend $15,000.00!
Then he will come down in price. Stick to your $15,000.00. Test drive it.
Then there will come to a point where they stick you in a room so the
salesman can "discuss" lowering the price more with the "big boss". (Bring
someone along with you) Then the room you are in probably has a hidden
microphone. They want to hear what you are saying in the room to your
friend/spouse.
So say to your friend or spouse (in the room by yourselves) I guess I could
spend a little more on that car. I like it. If they offered it to me for
$17,000.00 I would buy it right now.
Etc.
Just keep slowly going up in price while salesman comes down in price.
When he gives you his rock bottom price because anything lower would be
"below what they paid for the car", walk! Say that is too much, then say you
are going to look at cars elsewhere.
Etc.
The salesman will NOT want you to leave. He will try again with the "big
boss".
Then in room say you might go a bit higher, but not much. The car is just
not worth it because of all those problems, etc.
Anyway stick to your guns and go up with what you will pay slowly. You may
get the car for less than $18,500.
Expect the salesman to get ticked off when you tell him cash. Don't sign
anything or give them any personal information until you get your price.
Walking away does wonders to get them to lower the price a bit more. Bring
your walking shoes!
"Wooly" wrote in message
Chloe
I've done a bit of bargaining from time to time and your plan sounds okay to
me. The only potential problem I see is with your 300 mile distance from the
seller and potential problems that might crop up later. Are they offering
any kind of warranty? Will you have to go back there if you encounter a
problem? If so, what if the car's not driveable? Are you willing to just buy
"as is" and deal with potentially costly repairs on a high-mileage vehicle
at a location closer to you?
Wooly
The car is a Volvo with 4 years left on the original manufacturer
warranty; I have a local Volvo dealer for major warranty service, and an
indy Volvo mechanic for regular maintenance. I also have a
recommendation for an indy mechanic in the city where the car is located
who will do a separate inspection tomorrow. I've run the Carfax report
and I'm waiting for the dealer's million-points inspection checklist to
arrive via email. I have someone on the ground who I trust and who has
test-driven the vehicle; she reports it drives well. The mileage is
excessive by "book" standards but not by Volvo standards.
I'd prefer to buy locally but I'm having a few personality issues with
the used car side of the local dealership. I've been pretty well given
to understand that if I want to buy a used car through them I'll take
something they already have on the lot - and that means they aren't
getting my sale. So sad for them :D
Chloe
> Chloe wrote:
> The car is a Volvo with 4 years left on the original manufacturer
> warranty; I have a local Volvo dealer for major warranty service, and an
> indy Volvo mechanic for regular maintenance. I also have a recommendation
> for an indy mechanic in the city where the car is located who will do a
> separate inspection tomorrow. I've run the Carfax report and I'm waiting
> for the dealer's million-points inspection checklist to arrive via email.
> I have someone on the ground who I trust and who has test-driven the
> vehicle; she reports it drives well. The mileage is excessive by "book"
> standards but not by Volvo standards.
>
> I'd prefer to buy locally but I'm having a few personality issues with the
> used car side of the local dealership. I've been pretty well given to
> understand that if I want to buy a used car through them I'll take
> something they already have on the lot - and that means they aren't
> getting my sale. So sad for them :D
Sounds like the distance is a non-issue, then.
Given that this is a used vehicle, I'm not sure about the advice from the
other poster to not let them know you have cash in hand to buy the car. I
know financing can be a profit point for them but they also incur costs
arranging financing on a used vehicle and common sense and instinct tell me
that they'd be just as happy to have the transaction over and done with. The
other guy who replied did make a good point about taxes, licensing, etc.,
all those little miscellaneous costs. You might want to be prepared with a
couple hundred in cash just in case there's some fee you didn't think of. Or
maybe you just want the amount of the cashier's check to be your bottom
line.
John Weiss
>
> When dickering for with the dealer for a used car is there a rule of thumb
> for making an initial offer?
Not really. Offer what it is worth to you. Either give yourself some wiggle
room (if you REALLY want it), or smply go right to your BAFO (best and final
offer).
> The dealer bought the car at auction, for how much I know not. KBB lists the
> trade-in value at $16,500 and it is stickered at $20,000. I'm willing to pay
> $18,500 cash and I have no trade-in. Should I make a one-time cash offer
> with the cashier's check in hand - and be prepared to walk away if they turn
> me down?
Sounds reasonable. Make it clear that your offer is a "bottom line" offer --
ALL dealer's fees & taxes included.
> The car has been on the lot for a month. The car is in excellent condition
> and has 4 years remaining on the original manufacturer's warranty. I have to
> travel ~300 one way to get the car.
Bring a friend who can drive you back home or drive the other car back home.
Wooly
> maybe you just want the amount of the cashier's check to be your bottom
> line.
That's pretty much the case. Really I'm speaking metaphorically as I've
done all the shopping via email and phone thus far. I expect to nail a
price over the phone (or be told to take a hike) and sign the contract
via fax before I get on the train.
Distance is an issue only in that I'm inconvenienced by the local
dealer's refusal to bring in a car for me. It'll be a day out of my
life to go get the car and drive it home (gotta love metro traffic), but
I can live with it to get the car I want at a price I'm willing to pay.
John Weiss
Who is going to do the mechanical inspection? Even though there is the mfgr's
warranty left on it, any latent problems can at LEAST become a major
nuisance...
MAKE SURE the contract has an inspection clause, so you can walk away if your
mechanic finds any undisclosed major problems. MAKE SURE that clause allows
you enough time and miles to drive it to your local mechanic (e.g., 400 miles
and 3 days, for your stated 300 mile trip).
timeOday
> Sounds reasonable. Make it clear that your offer is a "bottom line" offer --
> ALL dealer's fees & taxes included.
That's an important point. I had a deal on a nice car fall through
because we agreed on (say) $17,000, then he handed me an invoice for
$17,400. To him it was such standard practice, he couldn't seem to
understand why I considered that part of the price. I ended up walking
away, and he did not call me back (although I watched the car sit on the
lot for the next month).
You might STILL not get them to haggle over the *real* bottom line
price including taxes, but at least make sure you know what all the
expenses will be so you can mentally add them up.
John Weiss
My dad taught me that, and it has worked for him and me several times.
One time Dad went into a dealer with his 3-year-old car and asked what the
bottom-line price would be for a new model, equipped EXACTLY as his (he had
bought the car new from the same dealer). The salesman came out of the back
room after a while and said they had one on the lot -- even the same color.
They agreed on a bottom-line price with the trade-in.
Dad went in to pick up the car the next day. It lacked fog lights. Salesman
didn't want to add them on. Dad reminded him that the deal was "equipped
exactly as the old one," and pointed to the factory fog lights on the old one;
salesman started arguing about extra cost. Dad told him to install the lights
or cancel the deal, then wound up walking out to his old car when the
salesdroid continued arguing.
Sales Manager caught up with Dad before he got off the lot, and told him the
lights were being installed...
Another time I was looking for a car for my wife. She agreed to go to the
desert for a couple years if I bought her a Saab convertible. I found one,
though didn't really want the non-turbo engine with an auto tranny. After
dickering about trade, etc, and discussing taxes, fees etc, made a bottom-line
offer including trade.
Salesdroid went into the back; came out and said the sales manager accepted the
offer. Sales contract was drawn up, they added a $30 "registration processing
fee" to the agreed price. I reminded him the offer was "bottom line"; he tried
to tell me the fee was "standard." I told him I wasn't paying 1 cent more than
the agreed price. After another 10 minutes with his manager, he finally came
out with a corrected contract.
Wooly
I ended up passing on the vehicle after the remote indy Volvo mechanic
(recommended by the local indy Volvo mechanic) found some problems the
dealer wasn't willing to address.
So I'm still shopping...
The Henchman
"Bill" <bill19...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5jj125F...@mid.individual.net...
A damn excellent response Bill!!! It works.
The Real Bev
> "Wooly" <nobody@nunya> wrote...
>>
>> When dickering for with the dealer for a used car is there a rule of thumb
>> for making an initial offer?
>
> Not really. Offer what it is worth to you. Either give yourself some wiggle
> room (if you REALLY want it), or smply go right to your BAFO (best and final
> offer).
That's good enough advice for dealing with private sellers who might be
outraged and personally insulted by a low-ball offer (happens all the time
with people who think their castoffs are REALLY valuable), but the
professionals aren't likely to be emotionally involved in the sale.
>> The dealer bought the car at auction, for how much I know not. KBB lists the
>> trade-in value at $16,500 and it is stickered at $20,000. I'm willing to pay
>> $18,500 cash and I have no trade-in. Should I make a one-time cash offer
>> with the cashier's check in hand - and be prepared to walk away if they turn
>> me down?
>
> Sounds reasonable. Make it clear that your offer is a "bottom line" offer --
> ALL dealer's fees & taxes included.
>
>> The car has been on the lot for a month. The car is in excellent condition
>> and has 4 years remaining on the original manufacturer's warranty. I have to
>> travel ~300 one way to get the car.
>
> Bring a friend who can drive you back home or drive the other car back home.
And be prepared to walk out if you aren't satisfied. Even Volvos aren't
one-of-a-kind items. ALWAYS be prepared to walk out without looking back,
especially if the salesman has spent considerable time on you. At some
point he begins to fear the loss of the commission that he had been
anticipating, so turn the tables on the bastard!
--
Cheers,
Bev
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Usene...@the-domain-in.sig
bill19...@yahoo.com says...
Yeah. When you are there being spied on with the hidden
microphone... be sure to make lots of extremely lewd comments
about the salesperson. Especially if s/he is the same sex as
you. Like, "I would pay an extra $200 if that hunky car salesman
gave me a BJ, cuz I've always liked rough trade badboys..."
--
Want Privacy?
http://www.MinistryOfPrivacy.com/
clams casino
>
>Yeah. When you are there being spied on with the hidden
>microphone... be sure to make lots of extremely lewd comments
>about the salesperson. Especially if s/he is the same sex as
>you. Like, "I would pay an extra $200 if that hunky car salesman
>gave me a BJ, cuz I've always liked rough trade badboys..."
>
>
>
>
OK, Craig.