Black Friday scams
Joe
Al Bundy
I don't really consider those scams, just common marketing ploys of
our times.
My motto is: Just don't go.
If you don't go to the store you can't waste any money. Avoid shopping
as much as possible. Make a list. Know what you are looking for and
the relative value of things. It's the same with cars or toothpaste.
Sometimes there is a place for inferior quality at the right low price
if you can make it work.
Another motto I like is: If everybody else is doing it, there must be
something wrong with it.
George Grapman
I do all my shopping in one swoop. Macy's Cellar is full of enough
kitchen devices that I can find something for everyone. 30-45 minutes
and I am done with it. For those who I can not think of anything a store
gift card is always welcome.
Evelyn C. Leeper
>
> I do all my shopping in one swoop. Macy's Cellar is full of enough
> kitchen devices that I can find something for everyone. 30-45 minutes
> and I am done with it. For those who I can not think of anything a store
> gift card is always welcome.
Just make sure that 1) it doesn't have service charges or a short
expiration time, 2) it is large enough that they can actually buy
something with it (or it's a store that you know they shop at a lot anyway).
<http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/money/20071114/b_giftcards_14.art.htm>
"Part of the problem is that the cards get lost or don't get used before
their expiration dates, or the amount on the card is too small to buy
anything decent."
Also:
•Fees. Some gift cards, particularly those issued by credit card
companies like American Express and MasterCard, have stiff fees,
including purchasing fees or fees to replace a lost card. Cards issued
by retailers usually don't have fees.
•Expiration dates. Some cards can expire within a year, or less.
•Inactivity fees. If you don't use the card within a certain amount of
time, you could be docked a monthly fee.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz
Goomba38
> I do all my shopping in one swoop. Macy's Cellar is full of enough
> kitchen devices that I can find something for everyone. 30-45 minutes
> and I am done with it. For those who I can not think of anything a store
> gift card is always welcome.
Macy's has great kitchen item sales! I've purchased many unadvertised
things there (year round) that were great deals. Combined with the
coupons they send me I have saved some serious coin.
This week I purchased two Ralph Lauren tableclothes (originally $50
each) for a final price of $14 each after sale and coupon discounts.
Macy's is a good basics store. Others may shop at Walmart or Target... I
like Macy's Housewares section!
BrotherSandMonkey
No wonder Christmas Day has been called a pagan holiday.
The Trucker
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend
What Me Worry?
news:pan.2007.11.23....@verizon.net...
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>
> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
Rebates should be outlawed. They are a scam.
Best Buy used to be one of the worst offenders, but now they (wisely) have
stopped using the rebate ploy:
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>
> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
One of the biggest reasons for rebates is to prevent returns. Once the
UPC code is removed, most stores will not accept returns.
sarge137
Absolutely! I went to my local CompUSA last night for their 9:00pm to
midnight Thanksgiving day sale. Not a thing on their shelves, except
for a few very large already badly over priced flat screen TVs could
be had for "out the door" prices much below the normal list price. I
was looking at a HP Pavilion desktop with a shelf price of $499.99.
Reading the very fine print on the tag told me that I was really going
be charged $799.99, plus sales tax, then receive a $50.00 "instant"
rebate at the register, and a total of $250.00 in separate
manufacturer's and CompUSA mail in rebates. So that computer with the
$499.99 shelf tag was actually going to cost me slightly less than
$800.00 to take home. Having had previous experience with both
CompUSA and HP rebates, I know it'll take takes week, and at least one
complaint to get the checks.
While I was looking a sales clerk walked up. The exchange went
something like this:
Clerk: Pretty good deal isn't it?
Me: Yeah, it would be if I could take it home for that price. But,
I'll probably see my tax refund before those rebate checks.
Clerk: Well, I can check with my manager. Maybe we can work
something out.
Me: That would be great, thanks. By the way, tell your manager I
don't buy extended warranties for any reason.
I waited 15 minutes and went home. Never saw him again.
Regards,
Sarge
clams casino
>On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
>
>
>>http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>>
>>
>
>The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
>months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
>rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
>insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
>plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
>
>
>
Got a rebate today from Symantec (filed 4 months ago). The name on the
check has significant spelling errors and the line for endorsement
strictly forbids a third party endorsement.
I can see where they will now reject the rebate because my correct name
(for proper deposit) will not begin to match the name on the rebate check.
Peder B. Pels
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
> > http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>
> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
I agree, it's bullshit. It's a flashy sticker on the product that
entices you to shell out for aproduct, by making YOU jump through hoops
to get a mostly insignificant cash refund. After waiting forever.
I usually just avoid such products. Revently, Microsoft has been pulling
that shit on their peripheral products here in Denmark. No thanks. I
prefer Logitech anyway...
--
regards , Peter B. P. http://titancity.com/blog , http://macplanet.dk
Washington D.C.: District of Criminals
"I dont drink anymore... of course, i don't drink any less, either!
Peder B. Pels
Did they do so on their own accord? If that is the case, then the market
does seem to work toward pushing companies toward more ethical
practices.
Meghan Noecker
<rboot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>While I was looking a sales clerk walked up. The exchange went
>something like this:
>
>Clerk: Pretty good deal isn't it?
>Me: Yeah, it would be if I could take it home for that price. But,
>I'll probably see my tax refund before those rebate checks.
>Clerk: Well, I can check with my manager. Maybe we can work
>something out.
>Me: That would be great, thanks. By the way, tell your manager I
>don't buy extended warranties for any reason.
>
>I waited 15 minutes and went home. Never saw him again.
>
Reminds me of when I bought a desktop computer at CompUSA many years
ago. They told me I could get an extended warranty for free. They said
something about having to lower the ticket prices of my items so that
the warranty would shop up on the receipt. Both my sister and I were
buying a computer, monitor, printer, etc. After about 5 minutes, they
came back with our papers to take to the register. A quick work of
math, and I could see they added $300 to the bill.
I mentioned it, and he said he would check them. Another 15 minutes,
and he came back. I added it up, and it was still $300 higher than my
purchase. He took it back again. Another 10 minutes, and he came out
and admitted that it would cost $300, but it was a good deal. I told
him to take it off. No way I was I buying an extended warranty.
My sister would have paid it, never noticing the problem. It makes me
wonder how many people fall for that scam, and how they can get
employees to do this without feeling guilty.
Goomba38
> Got a rebate today from Symantec (filed 4 months ago). The name on the
> check has significant spelling errors and the line for endorsement
> strictly forbids a third party endorsement.
>
> I can see where they will now reject the rebate because my correct name
> (for proper deposit) will not begin to match the name on the rebate check.
I don't usually bother signing my name to the back of checks. I just
write on the back "For Deposit Only" and my bank account number. Never
once had a problem doing it that way and saves time.
The Real Bev
> The Trucker wrote:
>>On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>>
>>>http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>>
>>The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
>>months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
>>rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
>>insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
>>plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
This is an old argument. I'll do rebates because you can't get the same or
equivalent stuff at a better price without the rebates. I pay attention to
what I'm doing and have been burned for less than $10 over a 10-year+ period.
> Got a rebate today from Symantec (filed 4 months ago). The name on the
> check has significant spelling errors and the line for endorsement
> strictly forbids a third party endorsement.
>
> I can see where they will now reject the rebate because my correct name
> (for proper deposit) will not begin to match the name on the rebate check.
Lots of rebate checks prohibit 3rd-party endorsements, which prohibition I
have repeatedly ignored with no penalty whatsoever.
I bought my mom a nice HP computer + printer + monitor from Office Depot for
~$350 after rebate a couple of years ago. There were LOTS of forms and it
was a monumental nuisance, but it all worked out.
How many people are willing to pay you >$100/hour for filling in forms and
making xerox copies?
--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------------
Don't you just KNOW that there is more than one
Sierra Club member who is absolutely sure that the
dinosaurs died out because of something humans did?
George Grapman
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>
> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
>
Ask the person I am speaking with if I can record the call. I never
actually record it but they respond better if think I am.
Politely ask for their name or employee ID number. I tell them I need
this because when when I file a complaint with the FTC or your state
consumer protection agency I know the company will contact me ans I want
to be able to tell them that I took this step because (name of person)
refused to deal with the issue in a reasonable and timely manner. This
almost always gets me transferred to someone in middle management who is
often able to accommodate me. Tell them that that two weeks is more than
enough time to take care of the matter and you are not interested in
excuses.
When AT&T delayed my modem rebate a manager said they needed 45-60
days to verify my address. I told him that would look very foolish when
a consumer affairs reporter called him up to verify the excuse. "Please
hold" was followed by a promise to call back by the end of the next day
and at that t5time I was told the check had been processed. I got it two
days later.
Kent Wills
The Trucker <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:52:03 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
>
>The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
>months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
>rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
>insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
>plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
Never buy based on a rebate.
I buy what I'm going to buy. If the item has a rebate, I'll
send it in. If I get it, great. If not, oh well. I needed/wanted the
item anyway.
--
Kent
If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
If Daddy ain't happy, don't nobody care!
Political Pagan
I did the same thing a few years back, ended up getting extra added to
the check.
--
"Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so"
Bertrand Russell
George Grapman
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:58:12 -0800, George Grapman
> <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ask the person I am speaking with if I can record the call. I never
>> actually record it but they respond better if think I am.
>> Politely ask for their name or employee ID number. I tell them I need
>> this because when when I file a complaint with the FTC or your state
>> consumer protection agency I know the company will contact me ans I want
>> to be able to tell them that I took this step because (name of person)
>> refused to deal with the issue in a reasonable and timely manner. This
>> almost always gets me transferred to someone in middle management who is
>> often able to accommodate me. Tell them that that two weeks is more than
>> enough time to take care of the matter and you are not interested in
>> excuses.
>> When AT&T delayed my modem rebate a manager said they needed 45-60
>> days to verify my address. I told him that would look very foolish when
>> a consumer affairs reporter called him up to verify the excuse. "Please
>> hold" was followed by a promise to call back by the end of the next day
>> and at that t5time I was told the check had been processed. I got it two
>> days later.
>
> is a source of entertaiment for you. You seem to see it as some sort
> of contest, or a perhaps game of wits. You enjoy the fight, and you
> REALLY enjoy the win. Most of us, however, see chasing down rebates as
> a hassle to be avoided at all costs.
Actually I get what I want b y being non-confrontational and a phone
call takes a lot less time than resending the documentation so it can be
ignored over and over. I spent all of 5 minutes on the phone with AT&T.
Companies know you want to avoid the hassle which is why they make it
difficult.
Chloe
news:86pek3l0rqdr2tpo0...@4ax.com...<snkp>
> I mentioned it, and he said he would check them. Another 15 minutes,
> and he came back. I added it up, and it was still $300 higher than my
> purchase. He took it back again. Another 10 minutes, and he came out
> and admitted that it would cost $300, but it was a good deal. I told
> him to take it off. No way I was I buying an extended warranty.
>
> My sister would have paid it, never noticing the problem. It makes me
> wonder how many people fall for that scam, and how they can get
> employees to do this without feeling guilty.
They might feel guilty, but I bet the bonuses they get based on how many of
the warranties they sell helps ease the pain.
>
sarge137
Well......yes and no.
They weren't ordered to do it. But, from what I read, it was in
response to the rules adopted by the states of Connecticut and Rhode
Island a couple of years ago. In those states if an after rebate
price is listed in an advertisement or on the shelf, the rebate has to
be fulfilled by the merchant immediately at the point of sale. In
other words, as in my earlier post, if CompUSA has a shelf price of
$499 on and item that actually sells for $799 before rebates, they
either have to cut me a check for $300 at the register, or sell it to
me for the $499 that's on the shelf. Same for any print ads they may
put out.
The general consensus is that it was easier to do away with rebates
and simply reduce prices, than to keep track of different rules in
different states. There's quite a rebate reform movement afoot, and
many states are looking various measures to regulate them and speed up
fulfillment. In fact it's so widespread, the FTC is considering some
federal rules so that the issue is standrardized across the states.
Don't know how other stores deal with it in those states. My guess is
that they make so much money from unfulfilled rebates that the cost of
keeping track of separate rules is more than off set.
Regards,
Sarge
George Grapman
are being told to offer the warranty but doing so makes it sound as if
they do not have faith that the product will last more than year. I then
thank for the offer and politely say that if the continue to press the
issue I will leave without buying the product.
rustypig
wrote:
Symatec is FAMOUS for not honoring their "rebates".
Gordon Sande
I always just say that "I am able to self insure against future failures.
So far I have been lucky and am very far ahead of the game as the only
failure I have had was in under 90 days on a manufacturers 1 year
warrantee." They seem to quickly get the message that it is a waste of
their time to continue as most have learned to not pursue hopeless cases.
Some are even smart enough to realize and appreciate that you have just
helped them not waste their time.
Oh by the way, it happens to be true. If your cost structure is such that
you can not take the risk of the future failure then you should buy the
insurance. But that is true of all insurance. So I do have insurance
on truly big ticket items like real estate and accident liability.
Chloe
news:2007112413381516807-gsande@worldnetattnet...
I don't spend all that time explaining, I just say "No, thanks." I haven't
had anyone argue with me in recent memory. In a case such as the OP
described, I'd simply have told them to cancel the entire sale. There are
very few things I can't purchase somewhere else, and in fact I have quite a
list of stores that have pissed me off at one time or another and now "no
longer exist" at all as far as I'm concerned. Probably cuts down on my
discretionary spending, actually <g>.
ro...@telus.net
<bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'll do rebates because you can't get the same or
>equivalent stuff at a better price without the rebates. I pay attention to
>what I'm doing and have been burned for less than $10 over a 10-year+ period.
I have sent away for half a dozen rebates -- the last one perhaps a
year ago -- and have yet to receive a single check.
-- Roy L
aemeijers
As annoying as those pitches are, sometimes they are so absurd as to be
funny. I once had a clerk offer me a three-year warranty on a $20 box
fan. I looked the clerk right in the eye and said 'you have got to be
kidding?'.
Most places, the rule seems to be 'ask three times'. I usually head it
off at the first asking by saying 'No, No, and No, and there is the
three times your boss requires.' If they EVER diddled me on the
paperwork and tried to charge for it anyway, I would throw a tantrum and
insist on the manager, plus follow it up with a letter to corporate. But
I'm not gonna beat up on some cashier droid over just getting pitched.
Close to a moot point anyway. I can almost always get a better price
elsewhere, than at the places that do the high-pressure pitch.
aem sends...
Bill
>
> On Nov 23, 4:38 pm, pe...@nospamplease.dk (Peder B. Pels) wrote:
> > What Me Worry? <__@____.___> wrote:
> >
> > > Best Buy used to be one of the worst offenders, but now they (wisely) have
> > > stopped using the rebate ploy:
> >
> > >http://www.consumeraffairs.com/retail/bestbuy_rebates.html
> >
> > Did they do so on their own accord? If that is the case, then the market
> > does seem to work toward pushing companies toward more ethical
> > practices.
> >
>
> Well......yes and no.
>
> They weren't ordered to do it. But, from what I read, it was in
> response to the rules adopted by the states of Connecticut and Rhode
> Island a couple of years ago. In those states if an after rebate
> price is listed in an advertisement or on the shelf, the rebate has to
> be fulfilled by the merchant immediately at the point of sale. In
> other words, as in my earlier post, if CompUSA has a shelf price of
> $499 on and item that actually sells for $799 before rebates, they
> either have to cut me a check for $300 at the register, or sell it to
> me for the $499 that's on the shelf. Same for any print ads they may
> put out.
>
> The general consensus is that it was easier to do away with rebates
> and simply reduce prices, than to keep track of different rules in
> different states. There's quite a rebate reform movement afoot, and
> many states are looking various measures to regulate them and speed up
> fulfillment. In fact it's so widespread, the FTC is considering some
> federal rules so that the issue is standrardized across the states.
>
> Don't know how other stores deal with it in those states. My guess is
> that they make so much money from unfulfilled rebates that the cost of
> keeping track of separate rules is more than off set.
For those who think that getting rid of rebates gets you the
same prices as you used to be able to get without them, I give
you an example of the Symantec 3-pack of software that Best Buy
sold for $30 on Black Friday. It used to be $100 but free after
rebate during the comparable time period when they were still
offering rebates. Is paying $30 (and tax on $30) better than
having to pay tax on $100 and deal with $100 in rebates better?
I guess it's up to the consumer to decide. If you are the sort
who forgets to file rebates or is careless or does not follow up
on rebates, then the $30 is a much better deal.
Bill
Bill
>
> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
And what is the status of that rebate? Have you gone to the
rebate status website to see whether they even have it and if
it's waiting to be paid (you do have a scan/copy of the
submission, right?). There are some companies which are really
awful about paying their rebates and their actions can be
characterized as fraudulent (a lot of small hardware companies
whose rebates get mailed to California comes to mind). If you
have problems getting your rebate, you can try complaining to
the retailer and see if they can do something. Frys has someone
who will intercede and I know that they have paid customers on
their own when the manufacturer will not pay the rebate. But you
at least need to know what the status is and make some effort to
get paid. Should you have to? No. But it's much better than just
writing it off and then saying "rebates are awful, I mailed one
in a year ago and never got it.".
Bill
Bryan Olson
> Never buy based on a rebate.
> I buy what I'm going to buy. If the item has a rebate, I'll
> send it in. If I get it, great. If not, oh well. I needed/wanted the
> item anyway.
And never buy a product with a rebate and fail to collect,
all the way to cashing the check. Customer failure to collect
is how the scammers get paid. That's why they do it.
--
--Bryan
Bryan Olson
> For those who think that getting rid of rebates gets you the
> same prices as you used to be able to get without them, I give
> you an example of the Symantec 3-pack of software that Best Buy
> sold for $30 on Black Friday. It used to be $100 but free after
> rebate during the comparable time period when they were still
> offering rebates. Is paying $30 (and tax on $30) better than
> having to pay tax on $100 and deal with $100 in rebates better?
The straightforward money-for-stuff deal is a better system.
What value is generated by the effort spent handling rebates?
> I guess it's up to the consumer to decide. If you are the sort
> who forgets to file rebates or is careless or does not follow up
> on rebates, then the $30 is a much better deal.
Rebates are offers made in bad faith. The company has
statistics on how frequently people fail to collect, and
it makes the offer with the intention of not returning
money that customers believe they will get back.
Rebates generate an astonishingly high rate of complaints.
No legitimate transaction comes close. In fulfilling rebates,
the companies profit from their own mistakes. When the money
is going the other way, the errors vanish. How frequently do
companies fail to charge you for purchases?
Rebate (non)fulfillment companies lie. Parago, one of the big
players in the so-called industry, has a question/answer in
their FAQ:
Why does it take up to 8 weeks to process rebates/promotions?
We handle millions of rebates/promotions; each request is
handled separately. This level of individual attention is why
it can take up to 8 weeks to process a rebate/promotion.
Outright lie. They deliberately make it take that long, so they
can hold on to the money; that's no secret within the industry.
When they market to the vendors, Parago's line is totally
different; they tell how fast and efficient their system is.
Sad that otherwise reputable companies have gotten into this
fraud. I found that FAQ when dealing with a rebate on a Seagate
disk drive. Parago's lie appears with Seagate's name on it:
http://seagaterebates.com/promocenter/seagate/question_answer.shtml
--
--Bryan
Bill
>
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:03:32 GMT, Bill <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >For those who think that getting rid of rebates gets you the
> >same prices as you used to be able to get without them, I give
> >you an example of the Symantec 3-pack of software that Best Buy
> >sold for $30 on Black Friday. It used to be $100 but free after
> >rebate during the comparable time period when they were still
> >offering rebates. Is paying $30 (and tax on $30) better than
> >having to pay tax on $100 and deal with $100 in rebates better?
> >I guess it's up to the consumer to decide. If you are the sort
> >who forgets to file rebates or is careless or does not follow up
> >on rebates, then the $30 is a much better deal.
>
> times the tax, hoping that who you're dealing with is honest enough to
> send you the rebate?
Well, in this case it was a Symantec product. Despite an earlier
complaint here, they are known for being one of the fastest
paying manufacturers when it comes to rebates (typically within
a month). So I think the $100 would have been close to a sure
thing. If you're talking about a manufacturer known for not
paying their rebates, then the instant savings would have been a
much better deal.
That said, their rebate processor, Parago, has a bad habit of
rejecting (perhaps fraudulently, perhaps carelessly) valid
rebates. Fortunately, a phone call or email will almost always
fix it. It's unfortunate that they need to stack the deck like
this given how many customers really do screw up their
submissions or simply don't submit them.
Bill
Bill
Parago CAN pay rebates quickly. They handle Symantec and you can
routinely get paid in a month or less (and they enter my rebate
within a week of mailing). Even McAfee is pretty quick to pay
these days. On the other hand, they also do rebates for Sage
Software (Peachtree and Act!) and those can take 3 months or
longer. The difference in those cases is that Symantec and
McAfee fund their rebate accounts promptly (maybe even in
advance so there is an available balance) while Sage takes a
long time to send the money to Parago. When you have a rebate
sitting unpaid (and valid) at a rebate processor, the reason is
almost always because they have not been paid by the
manufacturer/retailer. And it's why calling to complain will
rarely get your rebate paid sooner because you're not going to
get your money until the processor gets theirs. This is one of
the most important facts about rebates that customers do not
understand. Of course, this is still better than really sleazy
companies who may process rebates themselves (a red flag when it
comes to rebates because they often "lose" them) or use the
processing house in City of Industry, CA, where rebates seem to
go to die. Others are somewhere in between.
Interestingly, grocery/drug store rebates (both store and
products) are much more consumer friendly. They actually seem to
WANT you to get your money. It's the computer/electronics
rebates that are seemingly so anti-consumer.
Bill
aemeijers
lot of time and money chasing a $10 one, and they know it and take
advantage of it.
I'm glad they seem to be dying out. I understand the business model, but
I think it is a scummy way to treat customers and retailers, and hurts
repeat business. Want to move old stock or build market awareness? Have
a sale.
aem sends...
David E. Fox
> "The Trucker" <mik...@verizon.net> wrote in message
Rebates should be outlawed. They are a scam.
Allow rebates, but place the burden of their collection by law at the
level of the retailer, not the consumer. The retailer then should offer
you the rebate at the time of purchase, then they can get their A/R
people busy getting the refund.
David E. Fox
> George Grapman wrote:
>
> As annoying as those pitches are, sometimes they are so absurd as to be
> funny. I once had a clerk offer me a three-year warranty on a $20 box
> fan. I looked the clerk right in the eye and said 'you have got to be
> kidding?'.
Reminds me of the time some years ago when I purchased a $50 (or so)
Walkman from Circuit City. The sales person was a fairly young guy and he
was very pushy to get me the add-on extended warranty. I told him "no";
he kept on trying to pitch it to me. I told him "no", again, he
practically started crying, but he eventually got me what I wanted, a
walkman sans extended warranty.
John A. Weeks III
What I would like to see is that all rebates are paid by
the store to the consumer at the point of sale. Then let
the store try to collect them. I bet we would see the
system change in a hurry when the consumer started getting
100% of the rebates rather the 5% or whatever it is today.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Bill
>
> In article <j8Wdnbf9OclLdtTa...@giganews.com>,
> "David E. Fox" <dfox...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:51:06 -0600, What Me Worry? wrote:
> >
> > > "The Trucker" <mik...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >
> > Rebates should be outlawed. They are a scam.
> >
> > Allow rebates, but place the burden of their collection by law at the
> > level of the retailer, not the consumer. The retailer then should offer
> > you the rebate at the time of purchase, then they can get their A/R
> > people busy getting the refund.
>
> What I would like to see is that all rebates are paid by
> the store to the consumer at the point of sale. Then let
> the store try to collect them. I bet we would see the
> system change in a hurry when the consumer started getting
> 100% of the rebates rather the 5% or whatever it is today.
>
> -john-
The problem with your idea is that people would then be able to
buy multiples of the same item for the after rebate price.
Rebates restrict people from buying more than one of the item at
the after-rebate price.
Bill
The Trucker
> Bill wrote:
>> The Trucker wrote:
>>> The biggest scam of all is the "manufacturer's rebate" that takes several
>>> months and may not ever come. I have been waiting 6 months now for a
>>> rebate that I have decided will never show up. Its sorta like medical
>>> insurance: If you make it difficult enough to get reimbursed then the
>>> plaintiff will eventually give up on it.
>>
>> And what is the status of that rebate? Have you gone to the
>> rebate status website to see whether they even have it and if
>> it's waiting to be paid (you do have a scan/copy of the
>> submission, right?).
Thank you for making my point. The people who offer the rebates intend to
make things as difficult possible so that you will stop attempting to get
the rebate. They are, in that way, as bad or worse then the health
insurance people.
>> There are some companies which are really
>> awful about paying their rebates and their actions can be
>> characterized as fraudulent (a lot of small hardware companies
>> whose rebates get mailed to California comes to mind). If you
>> have problems getting your rebate, you can try complaining to
>> the retailer and see if they can do something.
The best idea is to tell the retailer that he can stick his rebate where
the sun don't shine. I wanted to buy a computer system with athlon 2.4
Ghz, 1 gig mem, 300gb disk, with all the camera crap and vista and lots of
other stuff that was listed @ $469 and was $300 after rebate. They almost
suckered me into buying it. With the rebate it was one hellova deal. But
I have decided that I will not do any more rebates unless they are from
the retailer (in this case Office Depot). That way I have a shot at the
local level to do something nasty if I get really pissed.
>> Frys has someone
>> who will intercede and I know that they have paid customers on
>> their own when the manufacturer will not pay the rebate. But you
>> at least need to know what the status is and make some effort to
>> get paid. Should you have to? No. But it's much better than just
>> writing it off and then saying "rebates are awful, I mailed one
>> in a year ago and never got it.".
>>
>> Bill
It is a scam and there is no way that I am going to legitimize it.
> What is your time worth? I may chase a $100 rebate, but I won't spend a
> lot of time and money chasing a $10 one, and they know it and take
> advantage of it.
>
> I'm glad they seem to be dying out. I understand the business model, but
> I think it is a scummy way to treat customers and retailers, and hurts
> repeat business. Want to move old stock or build market awareness? Have
> a sale.
>
> aem sends...
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend
The Trucker
I have much more valuable endeavors for my time than policing the rebate
people. So my contribution was to get it talked about (done). And to not
buy stuff that has a manufacturers rebate as part of the price. I will
simply do without, thank you.
George
nothing. So the $1 or $2 buck commission he would get for selling the
warranty is a significant part of his income.
William Spuden
Radio Shack has adopted a similar sales model. They pay the workers a
meager salary plus a commission so the only things they want to spend
time on are warranties and things like satellite dishes , cell phones
and large screen tvs. The hit the daily double even you go for the
warranty on the tv.
Bill
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html#bf
I finally read the article and found this piece interesting:
> Black Friday Scam #3: no stock to begin with
>
> A third scam is stores' having no stock on the sale item to begin with. While
> at a Best Buy you can be sure there are, say, 5 laptops per store, because
> they are fairly well disciplined, if you go to another store you may not find
> anything. If you look at their ad you may see no guarantee of stock. If you get
> burned in this bait-and-switch scam, obviously you should boycott the store.
Circuit City more or less did this with their $229 PC bundle.
While not advertised as a 6 hour special, in reality it was
because they had very little stock and if you weren't there when
the store opened you didn't get it. Furthermore, as best I could
tell (and I checked a few times, starting at 4:30am on Friday
and several times on Thursday), it was never available for sale
on their website (it was listed there, but it said "purchase in
store"). Miraculously, when the sale went away after the website
was refreshed with new prices this morning, it was available for
ordering and home delivery. I'll be emailing CC about this prior
to my filing a complaint with the FTC. I doubt that CC will care
and don't have much hope for the FTC either, unless lots of
other people also complain. Best Buy had a similarly discounted
PC, but at least their ad said it was a doorbuster and I knew I
would not get that unless I showed up really early (which I did
not want to do).
Bill
Steve
>what I'm doing and have been burned for less than $10 over a 10-year+ period.
Same here, have saved literally thousands of dollars, and always wait
at least 4 months before following up.
--
That a belief is useful does not mean it is true.
...Unknown
The Trucker
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>This is an old argument. I'll do rebates because you can't get the same or
>>equivalent stuff at a better price without the rebates. I pay attention to
>>what I'm doing and have been burned for less than $10 over a 10-year+ period.
>
> Same here, have saved literally thousands of dollars, and always wait
> at least 4 months before following up.
All either one of you has actually done is to participate in the scam.
People normally attempt to take advantage of the rebate. They then find
that it is more trouble than it is worth or that the sales people and the
manufacturers have already stuck it in em by making the window of filing
opportunity to short. If it was a legitimate sales activity it could be
done by the retailers and/or the wholesale price could be cut and
these practices would be much more efficient. Why would the manufacturer
suffer the overhead of dealing with the rebates if he could just lower the
price and get the same gross margins? The answer is that it is a scam
that depends on deception concerning the amount of customer effort
required to obtain the rebate. It really is very much like private health
insurance.
sarge137
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, the difference will sometimes be worth it. A few years back I
bought a Sony Vaio laptop at Circuit City. It had a pretty decent out
the door price, but also included a $100.00 rebate. It took a few
days shy of six months, along with four phone calls, and a certified
letter to the fulfillment company, CCd to Circuit City and Sony,
threatening a consumer fraud complaint with my state Attorney Generals
office to get that check. I would have happily taken an additional
$60 or $70 dollar discount at the register in lieu of the rebate to
avoid that hassle.
Regards,
Sarge
Evelyn C. Leeper
want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz
Steve
>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
to show ya...
--
Hospitality is making people feel at home when you wish they were.
...Garrison Keillor
Jeff Jonas
>>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
>>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store.
>Just goes to show ya...
Jeez, that's as low as the folks who cut pages out of library books
just to save a dime at the photocopier.
It's time like that I take comfort from reading "the classics"
knowing that even in Dante's Inferno,
there are really low rings of hell reserved for such acts
if they don't get some Greek torture first (such as Syssafus, Tantalus, etc.)
--
-- mejeep deMeep ferret!
The Real Bev
> "Gordon Sande" <g.s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Oh by the way, it happens to be true. If your cost structure is such that
>> you can not take the risk of the future failure then you should buy the
>> insurance. But that is true of all insurance. So I do have insurance
>> on truly big ticket items like real estate and accident liability.
>
> I don't spend all that time explaining, I just say "No, thanks." I haven't
> had anyone argue with me in recent memory. In a case such as the OP
> described, I'd simply have told them to cancel the entire sale. There are
> very few things I can't purchase somewhere else, and in fact I have quite a
> list of stores that have pissed me off at one time or another and now "no
> longer exist" at all as far as I'm concerned. Probably cuts down on my
> discretionary spending, actually <g>.
"No thanks" sometimes results in the salesman offering a better price. The
Circuit City guy cut the price 3 times on a 19" TV, but we still didn't buy
the warranty and the TV is still working fine 10 years later.
--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"The almost universal access to higher education here in the US has
ruined a lot of potentially good manual laborers." -- Bob Hunt
The Real Bev
> If you have problems getting your rebate, you can try complaining to the
> retailer and see if they can do something. Frys has someone who will
> intercede and I know that they have paid customers on their own when the
> manufacturer will not pay the rebate.
That happened to me. The shithead company had some lame excuse, so Fry's
paid me itself.
> But you at least need to know what the status is and make some effort to
> get paid. Should you have to? No. But it's much better than just writing
> it off and then saying "rebates are awful, I mailed one in a year ago and
> never got it.".
Hey, some people NEED a religion!
--
Cheers, Bev
=====================================
Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled.
The Real Bev
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:35:22 -0800, Steve wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is an old argument. I'll do rebates because you can't get the
>>> same or equivalent stuff at a better price without the rebates. I
>>> pay attention to what I'm doing and have been burned for less than
>>> $10 over a 10-year+ period.
>>
>> Same here, have saved literally thousands of dollars, and always wait
>> at least 4 months before following up.
I guess we can crab about SOMEBODY using our money for free until we cash
the rebate check, but the current return on such amounts isn't worth
worrying about -- the truly observant can make up the difference just by
picking up change on the ground.
> All either one of you has actually done is to participate in the scam.
> People normally attempt to take advantage of the rebate. They then find
> that it is more trouble than it is worth or that the sales people and the
> manufacturers have already stuck it in em by making the window of filing
> opportunity to short.
OTOH, it's extremely gratifying that stupidity and/or carelessness SOMETIMES
have actual penalties. It's even more gratifying to find that *I* profit
from those penalties.
BTW, the "short window" provided by Staples recently was 60 days after
purchase. I can gripe about the design of Staples' 'easy rebate' program,
but it's certainly easier and cheaper than filling in, xeroxing and mailing
all those forms.
> If it was a legitimate sales activity it could be done by the retailers
> and/or the wholesale price could be cut and these practices would be much
> more efficient.
If it was NOT a legitimate sales activity, surely there would be lawyers
filing class-action suits against the companies involved. Seen any of those?
> Why would the manufacturer suffer the overhead of dealing with the
> rebates if he could just lower the price and get the same gross margins?
Because the current system is more profitable?
> The answer is that it is a scam that depends on deception concerning the
> amount of customer effort required to obtain the rebate.
What deception? I understand how it works and act accordingly. What part
of "Follow the instructions TO THE LETTER" do you not understand? Is it MY
fault that you have reading comprehension problems?
> It really is very much like private health insurance.
Actually, no. You are punished for using private health insurance; you are
rewarded for using rebates.
--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea...."
The Real Bev
> Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
So you don't want to give a nice practical gift that might make you look
cheap? Do you think that your friends and relatives will think less of you
because you look for bargains? What other inadequacies do you possess that
you fear others will discover? Just lie down on that couch and tell me
about your mother...
The Real Bev
> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
>>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
>>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>
> I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
> to show ya...
I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
krw
+use...@gmail.com says...
> Steve wrote:
>
> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
> >
> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
> > to show ya...
>
> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?
--
Keith
krw
+use...@gmail.com says...
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>
> > Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> > want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> > not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>
> So you don't want to give a nice practical gift that might make you look
> cheap? Do you think that your friends and relatives will think less of you
> because you look for bargains? What other inadequacies do you possess that
> you fear others will discover? Just lie down on that couch and tell me
> about your mother...
Just give the rebate receipt with the gift. Let them claim the
rebate too. That'll show 'em how generous you really are! ;-)
--
Keith
The Real Bev
> bashley1...@gmail.com says...
>> Steve wrote:
>> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
>> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
>> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>> >
>> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
>> > to show ya...
>>
>> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
>
> You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
> Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?
Of course not, that would have been dishonest.
--
Cheers,
Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
I remember when everybody posted to Usenet with their real, deliverable
e-mail address. Of all the sins committed by the spammers, destroying
the viability of the open Internet was the worst.
(Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, news.admin.net-abuse.email)
krw
+use...@gmail.com says...
> krw wrote:
>
> > bashley1...@gmail.com says...
> >> Steve wrote:
> >> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> >> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> >> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
> >> >
> >> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
> >> > to show ya...
> >>
> >> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
> >
> > You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
> > Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?
>
> Of course not, that would have been dishonest.
>
--
Keith
The Trucker
> The Trucker wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:35:22 -0800, Steve wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is an old argument. I'll do rebates because you can't get the
>>>> same or equivalent stuff at a better price without the rebates. I
>>>> pay attention to what I'm doing and have been burned for less than
>>>> $10 over a 10-year+ period.
>>>
>>> Same here, have saved literally thousands of dollars, and always wait
>>> at least 4 months before following up.
>
> I guess we can crab about SOMEBODY using our money for free until we cash
> the rebate check, but the current return on such amounts isn't worth
> worrying about -- the truly observant can make up the difference just by
> picking up change on the ground.
Sorry, but that one doesn't fly either. It is a question of scale.
>> All either one of you has actually done is to participate in the scam.
>> People normally attempt to take advantage of the rebate. They then find
>> that it is more trouble than it is worth or that the sales people and the
>> manufacturers have already stuck it in em by making the window of filing
>> opportunity to short.
>
> OTOH, it's extremely gratifying that stupidity and/or carelessness SOMETIMES
> have actual penalties. It's even more gratifying to find that *I* profit
> from those penalties.
Ahh... A Republican.
> BTW, the "short window" provided by Staples recently was 60 days after
> purchase. I can gripe about the design of Staples' 'easy rebate' program,
> but it's certainly easier and cheaper than filling in, xeroxing and mailing
> all those forms.
This would be an example of the RETAILER taking responsibility for the
rebate and in that case we may see a legitimate rebate program.
>> If it was a legitimate sales activity it could be done by the retailers
>> and/or the wholesale price could be cut and these practices would be
>> much more efficient.
>
> If it was NOT a legitimate sales activity, surely there would be lawyers
> filing class-action suits against the companies involved. Seen any of
> those?
I will not be retaining legal counsel in my fight for the $5 that the
manufacturer of my pci network card screwed my out of.
>> Why would the manufacturer suffer the overhead of dealing with the
>> rebates if he could just lower the price and get the same gross
>> margins?
>
> Because the current system is more profitable?
Yes... Exactly correct. The profit is made on the scam.
>> The answer is that it is a scam that depends on deception concerning
>> the amount of customer effort required to obtain the rebate.
>
> What deception? I understand how it works and act accordingly. What
> part of "Follow the instructions TO THE LETTER" do you not understand?
> Is it MY fault that you have reading comprehension problems?
I don't have a problem any longer. I don't participate.
>> It really is very much like private health insurance.
>
> Actually, no. You are punished for using private health insurance; you
> are rewarded for using rebates.
No. You are punished with a lot of paper work crap. You can just keep
the #$#_($%& product, Mr. Republican.
Keith F. Lynch
> aemeijers <aeme...@att.net> wrote:
>> Most places, the rule seems to be 'ask three times'.
> Actually, the "three no's policy" was a Circuit Shitty innovation,
> and they claim it's no longer their policy.
If I'm asked once whether I want to buy an extended warranty, I
politely answer "no."
If I'm then asked a second time whether I want to buy an extended
warranty, I not-so-politely answer "no."
If I'm then asked a third time whether I want to buy an extended
warranty, I immediately leave the store without buying anything.
And I probably don't return for at least a year.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
George Grapman
> On 9 Dec 2007 14:08:15 -0500, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Scott in SoCal <scotte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> aemeijers <aeme...@att.net> wrote:
>>>> Most places, the rule seems to be 'ask three times'.
>>> Actually, the "three no's policy" was a Circuit Shitty innovation,
>>> and they claim it's no longer their policy.
>> If I'm asked once whether I want to buy an extended warranty, I
>> politely answer "no."
>>
>> If I'm then asked a second time whether I want to buy an extended
>> warranty, I not-so-politely answer "no."
>>
>> If I'm then asked a third time whether I want to buy an extended
>> warranty, I immediately leave the store without buying anything.
>> And I probably don't return for at least a year.
>
> was REALLY pushy on some stupid extended warranty. After the third
> "no," I asked her "don't people ever get angry that you push these
> extended warrantys so obnoxiously?" Like a good little corporate drone
> she said "no." "Well," I said, "I guess that makes me the first."
>
> I haven't been back since.
I have been to their stores twice. Once I left under circumstances
similar to yours. The other time I was trying to price a computer.
Everything they had was part of a package and the fact that the OS was
not included was not made clear. I asked for pricing minus the monitor
and they refused .A manager even insisted that my current monitor would
not work with XP.
Went to a mom and pop store that actually gave me a better system for
less money .