clothes washers and dryers for older units with "weak" plumbing?
CJ
1970’s, and not the fanciest place around. One issue is that we can’t
have clothes washers or dryers in the units because (we are told) the
plumbing can’t handle it (and maybe the ventilation system, I'm not
sure if that's an issue too). I don’t know the technical details of
that, just what they tell us. (We have a common laundry room with
coin machines.)
Question: With all the advances in technology, you’d think someone
would have developed washers/dryers designed for these older type
living units. The people who run the condo complex may not be aware
of such units (if they exist), so I’m posting this query. Does anyone
know if there are special washers and dryers that have been designed
to work with plumbing and/or ventilation which is otherwise too “old”
for standard washer/dryers? And if so, can you specify what such
washer/dryer units are called, and/or who makes them, etc?
Thanks in advance for all replies.
elise d faber
<charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I live in a relatively old condo complex, built in the 1960=92s or
>1970=92s, and not the fanciest place around. One issue is that we can=92t
>have clothes washers or dryers in the units because (we are told) the
>plumbing can=92t handle it (and maybe the ventilation system, I'm not
>sure if that's an issue too). I don=92t know the technical details of
>that, just what they tell us. (We have a common laundry room with
>coin machines.)
>
>Question: With all the advances in technology, you=92d think someone
>would have developed washers/dryers designed for these older type
>living units. The people who run the condo complex may not be aware
>of such units (if they exist), so I=92m posting this query. Does anyone
>know if there are special washers and dryers that have been designed
>to work with plumbing and/or ventilation which is otherwise too =93old=94
>for standard washer/dryers? And if so, can you specify what such
>washer/dryer units are called, and/or who makes them, etc?
>
>Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
the problem seems to be the detergent suds. in new york city, people
pay over a million dollars for a coop or condo apartment which won't
let them have a washer. dryers ore ok but you either need 220 volt
current or a gas hookup.
the problem here is the drain pipes which are too small to handle the
suds so ther is a problem with things backing up. i had thought that
dishwashers were ok because the standard leases with the no washing
machine clause were older than dishwashers, but it seems to be ok for
them because the dishwashing detergent is low suds.
i don't know why they don't make a detergent for washers that would be
ok, but there is evidently some problem about it or they would.
elise
John A. Weeks III
edie...@yahoo.com (elise d faber) wrote:
> the problem seems to be the detergent suds. in new york city, people
> pay over a million dollars for a coop or condo apartment which won't
> let them have a washer. dryers ore ok but you either need 220 volt
> current or a gas hookup.
>
> the problem here is the drain pipes which are too small to handle the
> suds so ther is a problem with things backing up. i had thought that
> dishwashers were ok because the standard leases with the no washing
> machine clause were older than dishwashers, but it seems to be ok for
> them because the dishwashing detergent is low suds.
>
> i don't know why they don't make a detergent for washers that would be
> ok, but there is evidently some problem about it or they would.
Any idea if the new style "H/E" laundry detergent made for the front
loaders would be a solution here?
And if you are paying a million for a condo, can't you afford to run
a new drain pipe down to the basement?
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Dave
> Any idea if the new style "H/E" laundry detergent made for the front
> loaders would be a solution here?
Possibly, if you also used a front load washer with it. The reason is
simple, the front loader will use about 70% less water, so the drain
might handle the front loader. (the same drain that could not handle a
top loader MIGHT handle a front loader)
If you used H/E detergent with a non-H/E top loader? It wouldn't suds
enough to get your clothes clean. That is, unless you used about twice
as much H/E detergent...in which case you'd be paying more money for
the same amount of suds, and you'd be flushing the same amount of gray
water down the drain... (back where you started).
>
> And if you are paying a million for a condo, can't you afford to run
> a new drain pipe down to the basement?
>
> -john-
>
That's what I was thinking. I'm guessing it's landlord preference as
to why there are no washers in the building. That is, the landlord
doesn't want them in the building, and is using the weak excuse of, the
pipes won't handle it. -Dave
hchi...@hotmail.com
<charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I live in a relatively old condo complex, built in the 1960?s or
>1970?s, and not the fanciest place around. One issue is that we can?t
>have clothes washers or dryers in the units because (we are told) the
>plumbing can?t handle it (and maybe the ventilation system, I'm not
>sure if that's an issue too). I don?t know the technical details of
>that, just what they tell us. (We have a common laundry room with
>coin machines.)
>
>Question: With all the advances in technology, you?d think someone
>would have developed washers/dryers designed for these older type
>living units. The people who run the condo complex may not be aware
>of such units (if they exist), so I?m posting this query. Does anyone
>know if there are special washers and dryers that have been designed
>to work with plumbing and/or ventilation which is otherwise too ?old?
>for standard washer/dryers? And if so, can you specify what such
>washer/dryer units are called, and/or who makes them, etc?
>
>Thanks in advance for all replies.
If it was built to code, the plumbing should be able to handle the
washers. The dryer is a non-issue. I suspect that the person or
persons making money off the coin washers has a vested interest in
keeping people from owning their own equipment.
That said, grease and fabric make for some serious and expensive
clogs. Every washer allows fibers to go out with the drain water.
Over time, those fibers get embedded with the grease stuck to the
sides of the waste pipes, and clogs form. Having a separate stack for
washers limits the problem. Having a filter for all the fibers is
impractical, and getting all tenants to not dump greasy foods in the
drain impossible.
I suppose you could lug a big barrel into your condo, dump wash water
from a clothes washer into that, let it settle, and after a day or two
decant off the clear water. Not sure what you would do with the
sediment other than the obvious.
Seerialmom
> In article <4889b87c.92309...@news.newsguy.com>,
> ediefa...@yahoo.com (elise d faber) wrote:
>
> > the problem seems to be the detergent suds. in new york city, people
> > pay over a million dollars for a coop or condo apartment which won't
> > let them have a washer. dryers ore ok but you either need 220 volt
> > current or a gas hookup.
>
> > the problem here is the drain pipes which are too small to handle the
> > suds so ther is a problem with things backing up. i had thought that
> > dishwashers were ok because the standard leases with the no washing
> > machine clause were older than dishwashers, but it seems to be ok for
> > them because the dishwashing detergent is low suds.
>
> > i don't know why they don't make a detergent for washers that would be
> > ok, but there is evidently some problem about it or they would.
>
> Any idea if the new style "H/E" laundry detergent made for the front
> loaders would be a solution here?
>
> And if you are paying a million for a condo, can't you afford to run
> a new drain pipe down to the basement?
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
> ======================================================================
I agree with you. The H/e detergent is designed to be low suds and
should work. I never could understand the concept of a "condo" that's
nothing more than an apartment, except you can paint the walls and
change the flooring if you want.
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
>
>> And if you are paying a million for a condo, can't you afford to run
>> a new drain pipe down to the basement?
>
> to why there are no washers in the building. That is, the landlord
> doesn't want them in the building, and is using the weak excuse of, the
> pipes won't handle it. -Dave
If it's a condo, there's no landlord -- just a homeowner's association.
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
>
> I agree with you. The H/e detergent is designed to be low suds and
> should work. I never could understand the concept of a "condo" that's
> nothing more than an apartment, except you can paint the walls and
> change the flooring if you want.
It saves you from rent hikes yearly and hopefully also gives you some
equity.
Seerialmom
That's about the only thing I could think of, too. But HOA fees go
up, so do the taxes. But for those who want to wear the badge of
"home ownership" I guess it's better than renting.
Rod Speed
> Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply <samh...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote
>> Seerialmom wrote
>>> I never could understand the concept of a "condo" that's nothing more than an
>>> apartment, except you can paint the walls and change the flooring if you want.
Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>> It saves you from rent hikes yearly and hopefully also gives you some equity.
> That's about the only thing I could think of, too. But HOA fees go up, so do the taxes.
You pay those even if you are renting, stupid.
> But for those who want to wear the badge of "home ownership" I guess it's better than renting.
Pity about the tiny matter of equity, stupid.
Seerialmom
> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply <samh...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote
> >> Seerialmom wrote
> >>> I never could understand the concept of a "condo" that's nothing more than an
> >>> apartment, except you can paint the walls and change the flooring if you want.
>
> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>
> >> It saves you from rent hikes yearly and hopefully also gives you some equity.
> > That's about the only thing I could think of, too. But HOA fees go up, so do the taxes.
>
> You pay those even if you are renting, stupid.
You don't pay HOA fees OR property taxes when you're a renter...and
I'll return the favor: DORK! :-p
Rod Speed
WDS
> If you used H/E detergent with a non-H/E top loader? It wouldn't suds
> enough to get your clothes clean. That is, unless you used about twice
> as much H/E detergent...in which case you'd be paying more money for
> the same amount of suds, and you'd be flushing the same amount of gray
> water down the drain... (back where you started).
Suds don't clean in and of themselves but are a byproduct of the
detergent.
The manufacturer of one HE detergent had this to say:
Can I use ARM & HAMMER Liquid Detergent HE in my regular washing
machine?
HE detergents are specially formulated to work best in HE machines.
While ARM & HAMMER Liquid Detergent HE will work (clean) in regular
machines, we recommend that consumers use one of our other liquid
detergent products in regular machines.
John A. Weeks III
<d9771ae1-3a0e-4bf1...@x29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Seerialmom <seeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The great thing about the world today is that we have all kinds of
choices, and you can aspire to buy or rent whatever kind of housing
you want. In my case, I don't want to both with outside maintenance,
and I don't want to live next to somebody who thinks it is funny to
paint their house pink and yellow polka dots. It is a lot less
responsibility for me, and it fits in well my on-the-go lifestyle.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 jo...@johnweeks.com
Lou
"CJ" <charles...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ea6d5a95-fd96-405c...@q28g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Depending on what you accepted and signed on for when you bought the place,
it probably doesn't much matter what technological advances have been made
since the place was built. If you agreed to the stipulation when you bought
the place, you're probably stuck with it unless you can get the HOA to
change the rules.
Out of curiosity, exactly what is the restriction? I once rented an
apartment for a year where the lease said "no laundry will be done in the
apartment" - there were coin-ops on every other floor. I had a washer and
dryer from my previous place, which I kept on the balcony (I was on the
seventh floor). Is your restriction that of the "no laundry" type, or does
it prohibit the appliances?
Dave
> Suds don't clean in and of themselves but are a byproduct of the
> detergent.
>
> The manufacturer of one HE detergent had this to say:
>
> Can I use ARM & HAMMER Liquid Detergent HE in my regular washing
> machine?
>
> HE detergents are specially formulated to work best in HE machines.
> While ARM & HAMMER Liquid Detergent HE will work (clean) in regular
> machines, we recommend that consumers use one of our other liquid
> detergent products in regular machines.
That's because the HE stuff will clean as well as just plain old
water. Water alone DOES clean fairly well. -Dave
Seerialmom
Renters can expect increases; but they don't get separate bills for
property taxes. To the tenant they just presume the landlord is
greedy, that's it.
Seerialmom
>
>
>
>
>
> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 11:56 am, Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
> > <samh...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
> > > Seerialmom wrote:
>
> > > > I agree with you. The H/e detergent is designed to be low suds and
> > > > should work. I never could understand the concept of a "condo" that's
> > > > nothing more than an apartment, except you can paint the walls and
> > > > change the flooring if you want.
>
> > > It saves you from rent hikes yearly and hopefully also gives you some
> > > equity.
>
> > That's about the only thing I could think of, too. But HOA fees go
> > up, so do the taxes. But for those who want to wear the badge of
> > "home ownership" I guess it's better than renting.
>
> The great thing about the world today is that we have all kinds of
> choices, and you can aspire to buy or rent whatever kind of housing
> you want. In my case, I don't want to both with outside maintenance,
> and I don't want to live next to somebody who thinks it is funny to
> paint their house pink and yellow polka dots. It is a lot less
> responsibility for me, and it fits in well my on-the-go lifestyle.
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ======================================================================
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's another advantage to the condo lifestyle or someplace that has
a HOA. I'm sure there's pros and cons to both.
CJ
original post: Every now and then some new owner (or new renter,
since some people rent out the units) goes out and buys a portable
washer/dryer. And as soon as they run it, everyone else has no hot
water. (That's how we know they are doing it, the hot water goes
away....) So, maybe there are issues with draining the suds as well,
and I have no idea how we'd ventilate the dryers, but the one clear
issue seems to be that for some reasons -- again, I know nothing about
plumbing -- but when people put washers in, they hot water seems to
get drained from the pipes for everyone else. So the question, maybe,
is whether there are some low water flow washers out there that are
meant for this sort of thing.
As for a few respondents who asked, "if you pay a million for a condo,
they can't add some extra pipes?" -- believe me, no one here paid $1
million for their condo. No one here can even imagine what $1 million
looks like....
As for the laundry room making money, we actually have pretty good
management here, and I doubt that's the issue. If I can bring to
their attention a way to get washer/dryers into the units in a way
that works, they would look into it.
CJ
laundry detergent? Couldn't find anything on the Web....
Rod Speed
Separate bills are completely irrelevant, they pay the increases anyway.
> To the tenant they just presume the landlord is greedy, that's it.
And they pay the property taxes anyway.
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
>
> That's about the only thing I could think of, too. But HOA fees go
> up, so do the taxes. But for those who want to wear the badge of
> "home ownership" I guess it's better than renting.
Homeowner association fees only go up to cover costs; they are
not-for-profit corporations, and if you weren't paying the money to
them, you'd be paying it on exterior maintenance and all the things that
the association pays for.
elise d faber
<seeri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jul 25, 2:47=A0pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
>> In article
>> <d9771ae1-3a0e-4bf1-a9f1-8b2bdd9ec...@x29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On Jul 25, 11:56=A0am, Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
>> > <samh...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>> > > Seerialmom wrote:
>>
>> > > > I agree with you. =A0The H/e detergent is designed to be low suds a=
>nd
>> > > > should work. =A0I never could understand the concept of a "condo" t=
>hat's
>> > > > nothing more than an apartment, except you can paint the walls and
>> > > > change the flooring if you want.
>>
>> > > It saves you from rent hikes yearly and hopefully also gives you some
>> > > equity.
>>
>> > That's about the only thing I could think of, too. =A0But HOA fees go
>> > up, so do the taxes. =A0But for those who want to wear the badge of
>> > "home ownership" I guess it's better than renting.
>>
>> The great thing about the world today is that we have all kinds of
>> choices, and you can aspire to buy or rent whatever kind of housing
>> you want. =A0In my case, I don't want to both with outside maintenance,
>> and I don't want to live next to somebody who thinks it is funny to
>> paint their house pink and yellow polka dots. =A0It is a lot less
>> responsibility for me, and it fits in well my on-the-go lifestyle.
>>
>> -john-
>>
>> --
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> John A. Weeks III =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 612-720-2854 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
>=A0j...@johnweeks.com
>> Newave Communications =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http=
>://www.johnweeks.com
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D- Hide quote=
>d text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That's another advantage to the condo lifestyle or someplace that has
>a HOA. I'm sure there's pros and cons to both.
right. where i live [chelsea in manhattan] single family houses do
exist. one went on sale a few months ago for only 4.6 million. the
construction people are getting it into shape now. a coop or condo is
the only realistic choice for most people.
elise
elise d faber
in manhattan a lot of these apartments are in older high rise luxury
buildings and the cost of retrefitting the drain pipes would be
enormous. the tenants just leave the laundry problem to the maids.
elise
WDS
> Also, can someone explain what an "H/E" washer dryer is? Or an "H/E"
> laundry detergent? Couldn't find anything on the Web....
This explains it quite well:
WDS
> Original Poster -- OK, I really should have included this in the
> original post: Every now and then some new owner (or new renter,
> since some people rent out the units) goes out and buys a portable
> washer/dryer. And as soon as they run it, everyone else has no hot
> water. (That's how we know they are doing it, the hot water goes
> away....) So, maybe there are issues with draining the suds as well,
> and I have no idea how we'd ventilate the dryers, but the one clear
> issue seems to be that for some reasons -- again, I know nothing about
> plumbing -- but when people put washers in, they hot water seems to
> get drained from the pipes for everyone else. So the question, maybe,
> is whether there are some low water flow washers out there that are
> meant for this sort of thing.
That's nothing do to with suds and everything to do with not having a
large enough water heater.
There are washers that run only on cold water and heat their own
water. We used to have one and it worked great.
As for dryers there are ones that don't need to be ventilated
outside. They condense the moisture out of the outflow air. Those
are quite common in Europe.
CJ
> That's nothing do to with suds and everything to do with not having a
> large enough water heater.
First, I really appreciate the replies. However, as to the specifics,
it can't be the size of the hot water heater. The condo complex
consists of a couple of dozen garden style units, and they are all fed
off a common water supply -- I think there are two boilers that feed
the whole place. And when I say that someone using a washer takes
away the hot water, it's like, the hot water just isn't there, and as
then at some point it's there again. So it's like the hot water
pressure in the pipes is affected by the (illegal!) washing machine
that someone is using.
But, I am wondering if these High Efficiency washer/dryers could work
in our complex. I will have to bring it up with the condo board.
Any other suggestions are appreciated as well!
Vic Smith
<charles...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jul 26, 10:36 am, WDS <B...@seurer.net> wrote:
>> That's nothing do to with suds and everything to do with not having a
>> large enough water heater.
>
>First, I really appreciate the replies. However, as to the specifics,
>it can't be the size of the hot water heater. The condo complex
>consists of a couple of dozen garden style units, and they are all fed
>off a common water supply -- I think there are two boilers that feed
>the whole place. And when I say that someone using a washer takes
>away the hot water, it's like, the hot water just isn't there, and as
>then at some point it's there again. So it's like the hot water
>pressure in the pipes is affected by the (illegal!) washing machine
>that someone is using.
>
Sound like a psychological issue. Why don't the "no hot water"
complaints happen when somebody fills a tub, takes a shower, or
washes dishes?
Because those are legal activities?
The hot water pipes are the same no matter the use, and the valves can
be cranked wide open in every case.
--Vic
M.L.
>>1970=92s, and not the fanciest place around. One issue is that we can=92t
>>have clothes washers or dryers in the units because (we are told) the
>>sure if that's an issue too). I don=92t know the technical details of
>>that, just what they tell us. (We have a common laundry room with
>>coin machines.)
>>
>>would have developed washers/dryers designed for these older type
>>living units. The people who run the condo complex may not be aware
Apartment washers and dryers used to be popular in the late 60's/mid 70's.
You filled them from a faucet and drained them into a sink or tub. They
ranged from an old-fashioned wringer washer, to one we owned that had a
rotary agitator and a small spin tub on the side to which we had to manually
transfer the load for spin drying. We coupled that with a 120v electric
dryer which vented into the house. It all worked quite well. Unfortunately,
I couldn't find any such units from my web search.
M.L.
>>1970=92s, and not the fanciest place around. One issue is that we can=92t
>>have clothes washers or dryers in the units because (we are told) the
>>plumbing can=92t handle it (and maybe the ventilation system, I'm not
>>sure if that's an issue too). I don=92t know the technical details of
>>that, just what they tell us. (We have a common laundry room with
>>coin machines.)
>>
>>Question: With all the advances in technology, you=92d think someone
>>would have developed washers/dryers designed for these older type
>>living units. The people who run the condo complex may not be aware
>>know if there are special washers and dryers that have been designed
>>for standard washer/dryers? And if so, can you specify what such
>>washer/dryer units are called, and/or who makes them, etc?
The Avanti W789SA @$319.00, 115v washer has rollers for portability and has
separate fill and drain pipes. Otherwise it is fully automatic.
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/W789SA.html
GE Spacemaker DSKP333ECWW electric dryer, 120v @$589.00. Exhaust Options:
4-way (Shipped Exhausted Through the Top). No mention of rollers for
portability.
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/DSKP333ECWW.html
It's probably easier to find a 120v electric dryer than a rollable portable
washer.
M.L.
That's a bit naive. Some HOAs hire family or friends to do work and jack up
the labor costs, or overpay for admin work.