The DSL 12-Month Commitment
Jack
here: Verizon and NetZero. The complaints focus around delayed
service ready dates, disconnects which last up to 14 days, and
piss-poor support.
If they offered month-to-month plans, it wouldn't be so bad. You
could merely cancel. But with the 12-month commitment which requires
an early termination penalty as well as full pmt. for the 12 months,
there is no incentive for good support.
What a racket! You pay for a shoddy product and are stuck with it!
Guess I'll always be a low-tech dial-up guy.
George Grapman
In California a court recently upheld the rule that requires
termination fees to be pro-rated. My two tear cell plan expires in
October. Last week I lost my cell. At first they wanted to charge me
full price for a new phone but after I told them that I would cancel
(this is why they hate number transportability)and pay 1/12 of the early
termination fee they offered me a free phone in return for a new 2 year
contract.
catalpa
"Jack" <Windswept@Home> wrote in message
news:48ac39a8...@news-60.giganews.com...
Verizon gives you the modem for free, hence the 12 month contract.
Verizon gives you 30 days to cancel the service. If you can't figure out in
the first 2 weeks if you want to keep DSL then it is your problem.
I've been using Verizon DSL for over 5 years and would not even consider
going back to dialup. I will be switching to FIOS when it becomes available
in my area.
Jack
wrote:
>
>"Jack" <Windswept@Home> wrote in message
>news:48ac39a8...@news-60.giganews.com...
>> There are lots of complaints about the the two DSL providers available
>> here: Verizon and NetZero. The complaints focus around delayed
>> service ready dates, disconnects which last up to 14 days, and
>> piss-poor support.
>>
>> If they offered month-to-month plans, it wouldn't be so bad. You
>> could merely cancel. But with the 12-month commitment which requires
>> an early termination penalty as well as full pmt. for the 12 months,
>> there is no incentive for good support.
>>
>> What a racket! You pay for a shoddy product and are stuck with it!
>>
>> Guess I'll always be a low-tech dial-up guy.
>
>Verizon gives you the modem for free, hence the 12 month contract.
Is that the excuse? They could write a month-to-month deal whereby
you return the modem if you terminate before 12 months or else you pay
for the modem.
>Verizon gives you 30 days to cancel the service. If you can't figure out in
>the first 2 weeks if you want to keep DSL then it is your problem.
Has nothing to do with "figuring it out." I have read horror tales
whereby problems start after 30 days, e.g., disconnects, speeds as
slow as dial-up, and unreliable support to address those issues.
>I've been using Verizon DSL for over 5 years and would not even consider
>going back to dialup. I will be switching to FIOS when it becomes available
>in my area.
Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
Most of the comments and opinions have been negative.
Maybe it's because satisfied customers are not likely to offer
opinions, I don't know?????
George Grapman
Last year my modem died and while waiting for a replacement I had
to back to dial up. I had forgotten how slow it was.
As a side note, after support told me how to do the exchange I
asked if there was a way to connect in the interim. They apologized and
said there was no way. After hanging up I remembered that this was the
same computer as when I had dial up and about one minute of rearranging
the phone connections I was back in business.
>
>
George
My guess would be that. I know lots of folks who have DSL without any
issues.
Rod Speed
No you arent. If they cant deliver what you paid for reliably, you
are welcome to leave without paying the early termination penalty.
And they know it, just mention the small claims court if they are stupid enough to try it.
> Guess I'll always be a low-tech dial-up guy.
More fool you.
Rod Speed
>>> There are lots of complaints about the the two DSL providers
>>> available here: Verizon and NetZero. The complaints focus around
>>> delayed service ready dates, disconnects which last up to 14 days,
>>> and piss-poor support.
>>> If they offered month-to-month plans, it wouldn't be so bad. You
>>> could merely cancel. But with the 12-month commitment which
>>> requires an early termination penalty as well as full pmt. for the
>>> 12 months, there is no incentive for good support.
>>> What a racket! You pay for a shoddy product and are stuck with it!
>>> Guess I'll always be a low-tech dial-up guy.
>> Verizon gives you the modem for free, hence the 12 month contract.
> Is that the excuse?
Its not an excuse.
> They could write a month-to-month deal whereby you
> return the modem if you terminate before 12 months
They dont want a modem you have been molesting.
> or else you pay for the modem.
That what the ETP is.
>> Verizon gives you 30 days to cancel the service. If you can't figure out
>> in the first 2 weeks if you want to keep DSL then it is your problem.
> Has nothing to do with "figuring it out." I have read horror tales
> whereby problems start after 30 days, e.g., disconnects, speeds
> as slow as dial-up, and unreliable support to address those issues.
The trouble with 'reading' stuff like that is that you cant get
a clear idea about how many actually get a result like that.
>> I've been using Verizon DSL for over 5 years and would
>> not even consider going back to dialup. I will be switching
>> to FIOS when it becomes available in my area.
> Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
Unlikely. If they were as bad as you claim, you'd have seen class action suits by now.
> Most of the comments and opinions have been negative.
That the nature of those things, those that are getting a decent result dont bother to comment.
> Maybe it's because satisfied customers are not likely to offer opinions,
Yep.
> I don't know?????
It should be obvious with anything you have got yourself, compare the result you get with the comments you can find.
r...@back.road
indifferent service. Instead of having the ability to drop them and find
a compnay with quality customer support and service you are tied to
shoddy business until the 2 year agreement terminates. It is immoral it
is illegal but Congress and Government don't observe Law or Citizens'
rights.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jack <Windswept@Home> wrote
>> Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
>
>Unlikely. If they were as bad as you claim, you'd have seen class action suits by now.
Forget DSL, we had progressively deteriorating Verizon phone service
for a couple of years, mostly occasional static, but techs could find
nothing wrong. It finally got to the point that the service would go
out completely for several hours a day and dial-up internet downloaded
less than 10 kbps. This lasted a month before a tech finally
diagnosed that their surge protector was damaged and replaced it.
Veizon credited the bill for that last month but the service was
defective for a coupla yrs.
So I can understand the original poster's fears. Wouldn't want to
sign-up for a year's DSL and have it out of order for a month.
Rod Speed
Using that mindless line, you'd never sign up for anything.
If you end up with a defective service, you can ALWAYS cancel if you want.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Messiah Obama <sp...@nospam.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:51:40 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jack <Windswept@Home> wrote
>>
>>>> Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
>>>
>>> Unlikely. If they were as bad as you claim, you'd have seen class
>>> action suits by now.
>>
>> Forget DSL, we had progressively deteriorating Verizon phone service
>> for a couple of years, mostly occasional static, but techs could find
>> nothing wrong. It finally got to the point that the service would go
>> out completely for several hours a day and dial-up internet downloaded
>> less than 10 kbps. This lasted a month before a tech finally
>> diagnosed that their surge protector was damaged and replaced it.
>
>> Veizon credited the bill for that last month but the service was
>> defective for a coupla yrs.
>
>> So I can understand the original poster's fears. Wouldn't want to
>> sign-up for a year's DSL and have it out of order for a month.
>
>Using that mindless line, you'd never sign up for anything.
Furthermore, it wasn't until we complained to BBB that Verizon finally
fixed the problem amd applied the credit.
>If you end up with a defective service, you can ALWAYS cancel if you want.
Regarding the DSL service, yeah, you can cancel and lose the money as
well as have your card charged with early termination penalty. Most
people aren't going to small claims court over something like this and
Verizon knows it. Hell, it would end up costing more than what you
would gain from any lawsuit.
Gordon
Well, Netzero isn't a telco, so they don't have their own lines.
They probably resell Verizon DSL. Which would account for their
poor ratings. Verizon users tend to have a love/hate relationship
with Verizon. We love it when it works, but god forbid it should
break. I have had Verizon DSL for 4 (maybe 5) years. It has worked
almost flawlessly. For a while there was a software problem that
required me to power cycle the modem every few days. But that
has been fixed. The biggest problem was when I moved. They took
14 days to get the DSL lines moved to across the street. In the
mean time I had to use dial up. THey didn't want to give me the
dial up number at first, but I insisted. Dial-up or cancel. They
wisely gave me the dial-up number. AFAIK they still maintain a
1-800 dial-up number.
Jack
<go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> For a while there was a software problem that
>required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
I've heard similar problems, e.g., one guy said he had to re-synch his
modem.
Well, those of us who are old geezers and technology-challenged don't
have a clue what all of this means.
Just don't have these kinds of problems with dial-up.
Rod Speed
>>>> Jack <Windswept@Home> wrote
>>>>> Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
>>>> Unlikely. If they were as bad as you claim, you'd have seen class action suits by now.
>>> Forget DSL, we had progressively deteriorating Verizon phone
>>> service for a couple of years, mostly occasional static, but techs
>>> could find nothing wrong. It finally got to the point that the
>>> service would go out completely for several hours a day and
>>> dial-up internet downloaded less than 10 kbps. This lasted
>>> a month before a tech finally diagnosed that their surge
>>> protector was damaged and replaced it.
>>> Veizon credited the bill for that last month but the service was defective for a coupla yrs.
>>> So I can understand the original poster's fears. Wouldn't want to
>>> sign-up for a year's DSL and have it out of order for a month.
>> Using that mindless line, you'd never sign up for anything.
> Furthermore, it wasn't until we complained to BBB that
> Verizon finally fixed the problem amd applied the credit.
And you could have done that much earlier, when they didnt find any problem the first time.
>> If you end up with a defective service, you can ALWAYS cancel if you want.
> Regarding the DSL service, yeah, you can cancel and lose the money
> as well as have your card charged with early termination penalty.
You can also use the small claims court if they wont waive that when they cant provide the service that you paid for.
> Most people aren't going to small claims court over something like this and Verizon knows it.
Most people are irrelevant. What matters is that they also know what the small claims court
will rule and arent stupid enough to incur the costs involved in a guaranteed loss there.
> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
William Souden
Meanwhile you have to deal with disputing your credit bill,disputing
any negative entries on your credit report and taking the time to file
the small claims suit.
>
>
The Real Bev
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:38:03 +0200 (CEST), Gordon
> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>
>> For a while there was a software problem that
>>required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>
> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it doesn't have
a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing you try before you
call the helpdroid, and it fixes the majority of of connection problems.
> I've heard similar problems, e.g., one guy said he had to re-synch his
> modem.
It sometimes takes a while for them to assign you an IP address.
> Well, those of us who are old geezers and technology-challenged don't
> have a clue what all of this means.
>
> Just don't have these kinds of problems with dial-up.
Yeah, but then you couldn't be on line all day and still get telephone
calls. You dreaded having people send you pictures. And you had to
wait while the modem make the call+connection.
Fast is better.
--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't need instructions, I have a hammer."
-- T.W. Wier
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rH0rk.1597$Fr1...@newsfe03.iad...
> Jack wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:38:03 +0200 (CEST), Gordon
>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For a while there was a software problem that
>>>required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>
>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>
> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it doesn't have a
> switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing you try before you call
> the helpdroid, and it fixes the majority of of connection problems.
doing that has never fixed my problems.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Messiah Obama <sp...@nospam.org> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Messiah Obama <sp...@nospam.org> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jack <Windswept@Home> wrote
>
>>>>>> Maybe you're one of the few lucky ones.
>
>>>>> Unlikely. If they were as bad as you claim, you'd have seen class action suits by now.
>
>>>> Forget DSL, we had progressively deteriorating Verizon phone
>>>> service for a couple of years, mostly occasional static, but techs
>>>> could find nothing wrong. It finally got to the point that the
>>>> service would go out completely for several hours a day and
>>>> dial-up internet downloaded less than 10 kbps. This lasted
>>>> a month before a tech finally diagnosed that their surge
>>>> protector was damaged and replaced it.
>
>>>> Veizon credited the bill for that last month but the service was defective for a coupla yrs.
>
>>>> So I can understand the original poster's fears. Wouldn't want to
>>>> sign-up for a year's DSL and have it out of order for a month.
>
>>> Using that mindless line, you'd never sign up for anything.
>
>> Furthermore, it wasn't until we complained to BBB that
>> Verizon finally fixed the problem amd applied the credit.
>
>And you could have done that much earlier, when they didnt find any problem the first time.
Should have, but the problem was "livable" until that last month.
>>> If you end up with a defective service, you can ALWAYS cancel if you want.
>
>> Regarding the DSL service, yeah, you can cancel and lose the money
>> as well as have your card charged with early termination penalty.
>
>You can also use the small claims court if they wont waive that when they cant provide the service that you paid for.
>> Most people aren't going to small claims court over something like this and Verizon knows it.
>
>Most people are irrelevant. What matters is that they also know what the small claims court
>will rule and arent stupid enough to incur the costs involved in a guaranteed loss there.
Most people are quite relevant. Whatever Verizon loses in occasional
individual cases is more than compensated for and Verizon plays the
odds against the possibility of a class action.
>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
>
>Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
Even if that's true, it's just the time, effort, and delays that are
inherit with the judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not
worth it.
The ideal situation would be a modem that could be used for all DSLs
and which you would buy and own up front. Then have a month-to-month
provider plan.
Rod Speed
Nope, dont have to do that when you threaten them with the small claims court and see them waive the early
termination payment because thats cheaper for them than what the small claims court will slug them if they dont.
> disputing any negative entries on your credit report
Nope, dont have to do that when you threaten them with the small claims court and see them waive the early
termination payment because thats cheaper for them than what the small claims court will slug them if they dont.
> and taking the time to file the small claims suit.
Nope, dont have to do that when you threaten them with the small claims court and see them waive the early
termination payment because thats cheaper for them than what the small claims court will slug them if they dont.
Rod Speed
Nope, completely irrelevant if you dont like the ETP and they cant deliver a viable service.
> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more than compensated for
Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class action.
Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
> Even if that's true,
Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the judicial
> system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they dont waive the ETP
when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use the small claims court.
Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will waive the ETP rather
than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the small claims court.
> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be used for all DSLs and which
> you would buy and own up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
SMS
> If they offered month-to-month plans, it wouldn't be so bad. You
> could merely cancel. But with the 12-month commitment which requires
> an early termination penalty as well as full pmt. for the 12 months,
> there is no incentive for good support.
>
> What a racket! You pay for a shoddy product and are stuck with it!
With AT&T there is no contract. You pay for a shoddy product, but at
least you're not stuck with it. Don't get me started on AT&T's support,
or lack thereof.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more than compensated for
>
>Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class action.
>
>Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
>
>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
>
>> Even if that's true,
>
>Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
Nope.
>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the judicial
>> system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>
>You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they dont waive the ETP
>when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use the small claims court.
>
>Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will waive the ETP rather
>than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the small claims court.
Nope.
They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
Quite the opposite as I recall.
And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable" downtime.
Most people won't take that chance.
>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be used for all DSLs and which
>> you would buy and own up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>
>Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
Cite "Plenty of operations."
Jack
wrote:
Hahaha.
AT&T says that they cannot provide me with DSL because I don't have a
phone service with them.
Fact is, my long distance is with AT&T.
Rod Speed
Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more than compensated for
>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class action.
>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
>>> Even if that's true,
>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
> Nope.
Yep.
>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they dont waive the ETP
>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use the small claims court.
>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will waive the ETP rather
>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the small claims court.
> Nope.
Yep.
> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
> Quite the opposite as I recall.
Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable" downtime.
And they would do that and find against Verizon.
> Most people won't take that chance.
Most people are completely irrelevant.
>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
> Cite "Plenty of operations."
Go and fuck yourself.
SMS
> Fact is, my long distance is with AT&T.
Your POTS has to be with them.
The Real Bev
> "The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a while there was a software problem that
>>>>required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>
>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>
>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it doesn't have a
>> switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing you try before you call
>> the helpdroid, and it fixes the majority of of connection problems.
>
> doing that has never fixed my problems.
It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the wire
and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the junction box up the
street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any problem"
problems, but nothing does :-(
Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too. Sort of like the standard
Windows solution: Reboot everything; if that fails, reformat and
reinstall everything.
--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================================
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice,
but in practice there is.
The Real Bev
> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be used for all DSLs
> and which you would buy and own up front. Then have a month-to-month
> provider plan.
We bought our cablemodem (and a couple of backups) at a yard sale for a
couple of bucks. Way handier than paying the ISP $5/month to rent one.
Don't DSL modems work the same way?
The Real Bev
So was ours until several years ago when they started charging a
$3/month minimum whether you made any calls or not. When I canceled it
they insisted that I still owed them $6 because they billed bimonthly.
I told them they'd have to sue me to get it because there was no way on
earth I would voluntarily pay for a service I didn't want and hadn't
used. They canceled the charge.
Until then they were OK. Now I think they stink.
Rod Speed
>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own up front. Then
>> have a month-to-month provider plan.
> We bought our cablemodem (and a couple of backups) at a yard sale for a couple of bucks. Way handier than paying the
> ISP $5/month to rent one. Don't DSL modems work the same way?
Yes they do.
I've always owned all of mine.
Rod Speed
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jack wrote
>>>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote
>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the
>>> first thing you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the majority of of connection problems.
>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out
> the junction box up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any problem" problems, but nothing does
> :-(
> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
Hardly ever.
> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything; if that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is
certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind that.
And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of Win now.
Coffee's For Closers
The router was "free" with a 12-month commitment. And the
penalty for early termination was simply that I would have had to
pay ninety bucks to buy said router.
Plus, the ISP is also the regular, monopolistic phone company,
which seems to be the best I can get, anyway. My vague
understanding is that, other broadband services are just
reselling this same service.
--
Earn Money With Your Web Site
http://www.WebSponsorZone.Net
Web Site Advertising Directory
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required me
>>>>>> to power cycle the modem every few days.
>
>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>
>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing
>>>> you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the
>>>> majority of of connection problems.
>
>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>
>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the
>> wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the junction box
>> up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any
>> problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>
>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>
> Hardly ever.
Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything; if
>> that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>
> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is
> certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind that.
>
> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of
> Win now.
I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it
periodically just to clean out the cruft. The very idea fills me with
horror, and I've only had to do stuff like that when upgrading to a new
machine. I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still
traumatic.
--
Cheers,
Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why is it so hot and what am I doing in this handbasket?
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote
>>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing
>>>>> you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the
>>>>> majority of of connection problems.
>>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the
>>> wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the junction box
>>> up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any
>>> problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>> Hardly ever.
> Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
I havent needed to do it ever and I've been using DSL for a lot longer than you have.
And its now a hell of a lot more reliable than dialup ever was too.
>>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything; if that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is
>> certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind that.
>> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of Win now.
> I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it periodically just to clean out the cruft.
Thats nothing like the standard Windows solution tho.
> The very idea fills me with horror, and I've only had to do stuff like that when upgrading to a new machine.
You dont even need to do it with a new machine anymore, just do a repair install instead and lose nothing.
Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings transfer wizard works fine.
> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still traumatic.
Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
The Real Bev
When did that start? I put various stuff of mine on my mom's XP
winmachine, but I don't do anything serious with it.
I just discovered wine. Very handy. I wonder if it can handle
photoshop and how you would do a photoshop installation on a linux
machine...
> Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings
> transfer wizard works fine.
What is 'transfer wizard'? I used a number of different 'this always
works' programs to upgrade from 98 to 2000, but nothing worked. I seem
to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new bigger HD.
>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still
>> traumatic.
>
> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
Rod Speed
>>>> Hardly ever.
> When did that start?
XP.
> I put various stuff of mine on my mom's XP winmachine, but I don't do anything serious with it.
> I just discovered wine.
Uh oh, time for AA.
> Very handy.
Only if you dont use the real thing. Anyone with a clue does.
> I wonder if it can handle photoshop
Nope, goes flat on its face.
> and how you would do a photoshop installation on a linux machine...
I'd use real Win instead.
>> Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings transfer wizard works fine.
> What is 'transfer wizard'?
Thats what its called, the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard
First showed up with XP, tho it can be used to move 95 and 98 and 2K files and settings to an XP installation.
> I used a number of different 'this always works' programs to upgrade from 98 to 2000, but nothing worked.
The Files and Settings Transfer Wizard does.
> I seem to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new bigger HD.
Just because you didnt know how to do that. Its completely trivial to do it if you know what you are doing.
>>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still traumatic.
>> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
> I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
Yep, tho its also true of human generations too, I bet the grand rug rats know how to do it.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Verizon knows it.
And plays the odds.
>> And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>
>Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Verizon knows it.
And plays the odds.
>>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more than compensated for
>
>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>
>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>
>Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class action.
>
>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>
>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>
>Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain from any lawsuit.
>
>>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they inevitably would.
>
>>>> Even if that's true,
>
>>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
>>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>
>>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they dont waive the ETP
>>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use the small claims court.
>
>>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will waive the ETP rather
>>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the small claims court.
>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
>> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
>
>Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
Chancy.
You're rolling the dice.
The contract you sign does not guarantee dedicated service.
Verizon will argue that you received support, even tho you had to wait
45 minutes to talk to a guy in Bombay India and he read a list of
fixes, none of which worked.
Verizon will argue that they fulfilled the contract and they'll blame
it on phone lines or your house wiring.
That's what the reports have shown.
Roll the dice, baby
>> Quite the opposite as I recall.
>
>Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
Chancy.
>> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable" downtime.
>
>And they would do that and find against Verizon.
Chancy.
>> Most people won't take that chance.
>
>Most people are completely irrelevant.
Most people are quite relevant.
Verizon knows it.
And plays the odds.
>>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>
>>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
>
>> Cite "Plenty of operations."
>
>Go and fuck yourself.
Translation: None exist.
You lied to us.
Apologize, bytch.
_____
SMS
> My ISP here in NZ had a decent sign-up deal.
>
> The router was "free" with a 12-month commitment. And the
> penalty for early termination was simply that I would have had to
> pay ninety bucks to buy said router.
>
> Plus, the ISP is also the regular, monopolistic phone company,
> which seems to be the best I can get, anyway. My vague
> understanding is that, other broadband services are just
> reselling this same service.
Not exactly. They pay the phone company for the link between your house
and the central office where the D-SLAM is located. The other ISP
provides services like e-mail, Usenet, tech support, etc. They may add
other services, i.e. one of the one's near me includes VPN on every
account which is very useful if you're doing a lot of traveling and
using unknown WiFi networks.
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>> I seem to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new
>> bigger HD.
>
> Just because you didnt know how to do that. Its completely trivial to
> do it if you know what you are doing.
If it's Windows it should be completely trivial to do even if you DON'T
have a clue about what you're doing. A simple "migrate system" button
would be ideal.
>>>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still
>>>> traumatic.
>
>>> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
>
>> I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
>
> Yep, tho its also true of human generations too, I bet the grand rug
> rats know how to do it.
I like "grandspawn" better. The computer-literate one probably does, the
rest aren't interested.
--
Cheers, Bev
-----------------------------------------
"Not everyone can be above average so why
shouldn't we be the ones to suck?"
--Anonymous School Board Member
fang
> Coffee's For Closers wrote:
>> My ISP here in NZ had a decent sign-up deal.
>>
>> The router was "free" with a 12-month commitment. And the
>> penalty for early termination was simply that I would have had to
>> pay ninety bucks to buy said router.
>>
>> Plus, the ISP is also the regular, monopolistic phone company,
>> which seems to be the best I can get, anyway. My vague
>> understanding is that, other broadband services are just
>> reselling this same service.
> Not exactly. They pay the phone company for the link between your house and the central office where the D-SLAM is
> located.
Not in NZ they dont.
Rod Speed
Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Verizon knows it.
Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> And plays the odds.
Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>> And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>> Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Verizon knows it.
Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> And plays the odds.
Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more
>>>>> than compensated for
>>
>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>
>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>
>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Verizon knows it.
Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> And plays the odds.
Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class
>>>>> action.
>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>> use the small claims court.
>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>> use the small claims court.
> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Verizon knows it.
Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> And plays the odds.
Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain
>>>>>>> from any lawsuit.
>>
>>>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they
>>>>>> inevitably would.
>>
>>>>> Even if that's true,
>>
>>>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> Nope.
Yep.
>>>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>>
>>>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they
>>>> dont waive the ETP
>>>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use
>>>> the small claims court.
>>
>>>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will
>>>> waive the ETP rather
>>>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the
>>>> small claims court.
>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> Nope.
Yep.
>>> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
> Chancy.
Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> You're rolling the dice.
Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> The contract you sign does not guarantee dedicated service.
Doesnt need to. That result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> Verizon will argue that you received support, even tho you had to wait 45 minutes
> to talk to a guy in Bombay India and he read a list of fixes, none of which worked.
And since Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for,
the small claims court will find in the customer's favour and Verizon
gets to wear FAR more than the ETP and Verizon knows that.
> Verizon will argue that they fulfilled the contract and
> they'll blame it on phone lines or your house wiring.
And the small claims court wont buy that, and Verizon knows that.
> That's what the reports have shown.
The small claims court wont buy that.
> Roll the dice, baby
There is no dice, child. The result in the small claims result is absolutely
guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> Quite the opposite as I recall.
>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
> Chancy.
Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable" downtime.
>> And they would do that and find against Verizon.
> Chancy.
Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> Most people won't take that chance.
>> Most people are completely irrelevant.
> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Verizon knows it.
Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> And plays the odds.
Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>>>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
>>> Cite "Plenty of operations."
>> Go and fuck yourself.
> Translation: None exist.
How odd that I'm actually using one of them myself, fuckwit.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> I seem to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new bigger HD.
>> Just because you didnt know how to do that. Its completely trivial to do it if you know what you are doing.
> If it's Windows it should be completely trivial to do even if you DON'T have a clue about what you're doing.
Then there's the real world outside your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.
> A simple "migrate system" button would be ideal.
Most wouldnt even know what that means and you arent even doing that anyway.
And Win alone cant do that anyway.
>>>>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still traumatic.
>>>> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
>>> I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
>> Yep, tho its also true of human generations too, I bet the grand rug rats know how to do it.
> I like "grandspawn" better.
I dont, I much prefer rug rats or ankle biters or ferals.
> The computer-literate one probably does,
I bet he does.
> the rest aren't interested.
They are completely irrelevent stupid girls.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Verizon losing the occasional small claims case justifies their
cutting corners on reliability and support.
>> And plays the odds.
>
>Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>> And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>
>>> Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
>
>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>
>Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> Verizon knows it.
>
>Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> And plays the odds.
>
>Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more
>>>>>> than compensated for
>>>
>>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>>
>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>
>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>
>Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> Verizon knows it.
>
>Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> And plays the odds.
>
>Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class
>>>>>> action.
>
>>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>>> use the small claims court.
>
>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>
>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>> use the small claims court.
>
>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> Verizon knows it.
>
>Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> And plays the odds.
>
>Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain
>>>>>>>> from any lawsuit.
>>>
>>>>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As they
>>>>>>> inevitably would.
>>>
>>>>>> Even if that's true,
>>>
>>>>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
>>>>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>>>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>>>
>>>>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if they
>>>>> dont waive the ETP
>>>>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will use
>>>>> the small claims court.
>>>
>>>>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will
>>>>> waive the ETP rather
>>>>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the
>>>>> small claims court.
>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
>>>> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
>
>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>
>> Chancy.
>
>Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> You're rolling the dice.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> The contract you sign does not guarantee dedicated service.
>
>Doesnt need to. That result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Customer rolls the dice. Ain't worth it.
>> Verizon will argue that you received support, even tho you had to wait 45 minutes
>> to talk to a guy in Bombay India and he read a list of fixes, none of which worked.
>
>And since Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for,
>the small claims court will find in the customer's favour and Verizon
>gets to wear FAR more than the ETP and Verizon knows that.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> Verizon will argue that they fulfilled the contract and
>> they'll blame it on phone lines or your house wiring.
>
>And the small claims court wont buy that, and Verizon knows that.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> That's what the reports have shown.
>
>The small claims court wont buy that.
I know. They'll side with Verizon.
Heh.
>> Roll the dice, baby
>
>There is no dice, child. The result in the small claims result is absolutely
>guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>> Quite the opposite as I recall.
>
>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>
>> Chancy.
>
>Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable" downtime.
>
>>> And they would do that and find against Verizon.
>
>> Chancy.
>
>Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>> Most people won't take that chance.
>
>>> Most people are completely irrelevant.
>
>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>
>Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> Verizon knows it.
>
>Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>> And plays the odds.
>
>Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the
individual person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation
time.
>>>>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>>>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>>>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>
>>>>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides support wise tho.
>
>>>> Cite "Plenty of operations."
>
>>> Go and fuck yourself.
>
>> Translation: None exist.
>
>How odd that I'm actually using one of them myself, fuckwit.
What else would a Verizon shill say?
Rod Speed
>>> Verizon knows it.
They arent stupid enough to let any get to the court except
where the customer is stupid enough to not make it clear
that thats where it will end up if they dont get the ETP waived.
> justifies their cutting corners on reliability and support.
Irrelevant to whether they will wave the ETP if they cant deliver what the customer has signed
up for, when they realise that the customer will use the small claims court if they dont.
>>> And plays the odds.
>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>>>> And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>>>> Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> Verizon knows it.
>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> And plays the odds.
>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>>>>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more
>>>>>>> than compensated for
>>>>
>>>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>>>
>>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>
>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>>
>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> Verizon knows it.
>>
>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>> And plays the odds.
>>
>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>>>>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class
>>>>>>> action.
>>
>>>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>>>> use the small claims court.
>>
>>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>
>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>> use the small claims court.
>>
>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>
>
>
>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> Verizon knows it.
>>
>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> And plays the odds.
>>
>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>>>>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain
>>>>>>>>> from any lawsuit.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As
>>>>>>>> they inevitably would.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if that's true,
>>>>
>>>>>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> Yep.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> Nope.
Yep.
>>>>>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>>>>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>>>>
>>>>>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> dont waive the ETP
>>>>>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> the small claims court.
>>>>
>>>>>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will
>>>>>> waive the ETP rather
>>>>>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the
>>>>>> small claims court.
>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> Yep.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> Nope.
Yep.
>>>>> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
>>
>>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>>
>>> Chancy.
>>
>> Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver
>> what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> You're rolling the dice.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>> Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver
>> what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> The contract you sign does not guarantee dedicated service.
>>
>> Doesnt need to. That result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for.
> Customer rolls the dice.
Nope.
> Ain't worth it.
It is when you get the EPT waived when Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for.
>>> Verizon will argue that you received support, even tho you had to
>>> wait 45 minutes to talk to a guy in Bombay India and he read a list
>>> of fixes, none of which worked.
>>
>> And since Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for,
>> the small claims court will find in the customer's favour and Verizon
>> gets to wear FAR more than the ETP and Verizon knows that.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> Verizon will argue that they fulfilled the contract and
>>> they'll blame it on phone lines or your house wiring.
>>
>> And the small claims court wont buy that, and Verizon knows that.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> That's what the reports have shown.
>>
>> The small claims court wont buy that.
> I know.
You never know anything.
> They'll side with Verizon.
How odd that they never ever have.
>>> Roll the dice, baby
>>
>> There is no dice, child. The result in the small claims result is
>> absolutely
>> guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up
>> for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>>>> Quite the opposite as I recall.
>>
>>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>>
>>> Chancy.
>>
>> Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>> if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>>>> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable"
>>>>> downtime.
>>
>>>> And they would do that and find against Verizon.
>>
>>> Chancy.
>>
>> Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>> if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>>>> Most people won't take that chance.
>>
>>>> Most people are completely irrelevant.
>>
>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>>
>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> Verizon knows it.
>>
>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>> And plays the odds.
>>
>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>
> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>>>>>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>>>>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>>>>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>>
>>>>>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides
>>>>>> support wise tho.
>>
>>>>> Cite "Plenty of operations."
>>
>>>> Go and fuck yourself.
>>
>>> Translation: None exist.
>>
>> How odd that I'm actually using one of them myself, fuckwit.
> What else would a Verizon shill say?
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Gordon
news:FQ0rk.371$Ro1.293@trnddc04:
>
> "The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rH0rk.1597$Fr1...@newsfe03.iad...
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:38:03 +0200 (CEST), Gordon
>>> <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a while there was a software problem that
>>>>required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>
>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>
>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it doesn't
>> have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing you try
>> before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the majority of of
>> connection problems.
>
> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>
Yes, but then I was telling about my problems. YMMV.
Messiah Obama
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>> justifies their cutting corners on reliability and support.
>
>Irrelevant to whether they will wave the ETP if they cant deliver what the customer has signed
>up for, when they realise that the customer will use the small claims court if they dont.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> And plays the odds.
>
>>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
> >>>>> And the fact is that most people won't fight it legally.
>
>>>>> Just because most people are completely stupid is completely irrelevant.
>
>>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>
>>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon knows it.
>
>>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> And plays the odds.
>
>>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>>>> Whatever Verizon loses in occasional individual cases is more
>>>>>>>> than compensated for
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Irrelevant to what happens when Verizon realises
>>>>> that you are prepared to use the small claims court.
>>>
>>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>>>
>>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon knows it.
>>>
>>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> And plays the odds.
>>>
>>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>>>> and Verizon plays the odds against the possibility of a class
>>>>>>>> action.
>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>>>>> use the small claims court.
>>>
>>>>>> Verizon knows that most people won't fight.
>>>
>>>>> Yes, but they dont when Verizon realises that you are prepared to
>>>>> use the small claims court.
>>>
>>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon knows it.
>>>
>>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> And plays the odds.
>>>
>>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>>>>>> Hell, it would end up costing more than what you would gain
>>>>>>>>>> from any lawsuit.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wrong again. They get to pay those costs when they lose. As
>>>>>>>>> they inevitably would.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if that's true,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Corse its true, and Verizon knows that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>>>> it's just the time, effort, and delays that are inherit with the
>>>>>>>> judicial system make recovery fo $300 or whatever not worth it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You dont have to do it, just make it clear to Verizon that if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> dont waive the ETP
>>>>>>> when they cant deliver the service you paid for, that you will
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> the small claims court.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Verizon will realise that you do know your legal rights and will
>>>>>>> waive the ETP rather
>>>>>>> than end up paying a lot more as a result of them losing in the
>>>>>>> small claims court.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Yep.
Nope.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>> They're nothing in the "terms" that provide for 100% uptime.
>>>
>>>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>>>
>>>> Chancy.
>>>
>>> Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver
>>> what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> You're rolling the dice.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>> Nope, that result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver
>>> what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> The contract you sign does not guarantee dedicated service.
>>>
>>> Doesnt need to. That result is absolutely guaranteed if Verizon cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>
>> Customer rolls the dice.
>
>Nope.
Yep
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>> Ain't worth it.
>
>It is when you get the EPT waived when Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon will argue that you received support, even tho you had to
>>>> wait 45 minutes to talk to a guy in Bombay India and he read a list
>>>> of fixes, none of which worked.
>>>
>>> And since Verizon cant deliver what the customer signed up for,
>>> the small claims court will find in the customer's favour and Verizon
>>> gets to wear FAR more than the ETP and Verizon knows that.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon will argue that they fulfilled the contract and
>>>> they'll blame it on phone lines or your house wiring.
>>>
>>> And the small claims court wont buy that, and Verizon knows that.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> That's what the reports have shown.
>>>
>>> The small claims court wont buy that.
>
>> I know.
>
>You never know anything.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>> They'll side with Verizon.
>
>How odd that they never ever have.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Roll the dice, baby
>>>
>>> There is no dice, child. The result in the small claims result is
>>> absolutely
>>> guaranteed if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up
>>> for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>> Quite the opposite as I recall.
>>>
>>>>> Doesnt need to be. The small claims court will rule that you
>>>>> didnt get what you signed up for and Verizon knows that.
>>>
>>>> Chancy.
>>>
>>> Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>>> if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>> And a court would have to try to define what is "reasonable"
>>>>>> downtime.
>>>
>>>>> And they would do that and find against Verizon.
>>>
>>>> Chancy.
>>>
>>> Nope, the result in the small claims result is absolutely guaranteed
>>> if Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>> Most people won't take that chance.
>>>
>>>>> Most people are completely irrelevant.
>>>
>>>> Most people are quite relevant and won't fight.
>>>
>>> Those are completely irrelevant to a particular customer who does
>>> make it clear that he knows what the small claims court is there for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> Verizon knows it.
>>>
>>> Verizon knows that if it ends up in the small claims court, they will
>>> have to pay a hell of a lot more than the ETP and so will waive the
>>> ETP when they cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>> And plays the odds.
>>>
>>> Yep, they bluff the bluffable and waive the ETP when they cant
>>> deliver what the customer has signed up for when that customer
>>> makes it clear that if they dont, they get to wear what the small
>>> claims court is absolutely guaranteed to award against Verizon.
>>
>> Very few will take it to court, given what is at stake for the individual
>> person in terms of time, effort, loss of salary or vacation time.
>
>They dont need to do any of that, just make it clear to Verizon
>that thats where it will end up if they dont waive the ETP when
>Verizon cant deliver what the customer has signed up for.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
>>>>>>>> The ideal situation would be a modem that could be
>>>>>>>> used for all DSLs and which you would buy and own
>>>>>>>> up front. Then have a month-to-month provider plan.
>>>
>>>>>>> Plenty of operations do it like that. Its got real downsides
>>>>>>> support wise tho.
>>>
>>>>>> Cite "Plenty of operations."
>>>
>>>>> Go and fuck yourself.
>>>
>>>> Translation: None exist.
>>>
>>> How odd that I'm actually using one of them myself, fuckwit.
>
>> What else would a Verizon shill say?
>
>Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
But keep on trying.
And where's that apology, bytch.
For lying.
And being a Verizon shill.
The overwhelming majority of people will not expend their time,
effort, and salary or vacation time to fight in small claims court on
this issue. The trade-off is simply not worth it. Moreover, their
chance of success is dubious at best .... given that well-coached
Verizon reps will plead that reasonable, workmanlike support has been
rendered... and that plaintiff should address other possible causes.
Then of course there are the terms of service which are loaded with
disclaimers. And then there are many cases whereupon service has
been restored after aggravating delay and effort and the court would
most likely determine the complaint to be moot.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama <sp...@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Messiah Obama
Aw no, you ain't getting away that easily, bytch.
Apologize NOW, for lying to us by saying that there are many DSL ISPs
that offer month-to-month.
Namely:
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
You, you you ... little Verizon 'ho', you.
Apologize instantly, if not sooner!
(Little slut hussy)
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Ya shameless huzzy, ya.
What choo mammy gwine say?
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
She's back for another goosin'.
Goose, goose, goose.
Shame.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Shameless huzzy.
Prostitutin' yaself like that
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Corporate 'ho'.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Huzzy.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
So spake the 'ho.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Hold still .... bend ... spread ...
Grunt, thrust, grunt, thrust. Ahhhhhhhhhh.
Thank'ee ma'am.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Drained right now.
Come back in 1/2 hour.
Give ya another one.
Rod Speed
Messiah Obama
Hold still ......
Spread nice, atta girl.
AHHHHHHHHHH