Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
OhioGuy
now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
recession.
Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
admitting that we are in a recession. The Depression word seems to be
avoided at all costs. Why is that?
Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what
it was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and
other items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in
our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit
is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.
Stock markets are plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping
at dollar stores, and even the dollar stores are finally raising their
prices.
I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it
is going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
plus Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut
feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on
over the past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what
the government does. We have reached the point where people are going
to tighten up the belts for a while.
A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time
to be realists. Time to face the facts.
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>... Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.
To a rate of 5.37% in August? :-)
>... I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
You might look up "inflation rate."
Nick
Al Bundy
When you took those economic courses, didn't they tell you that a
depression is a technical term based on measurable factors rather than
a journalist's opinion. Unemployment reached 25% in the Great
Depression and 11% in the 80's recession. We're not there yet, but it
could be coming. Please tell us the facts that we need to face.
Lou
"OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession.
A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In spite
of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It seems
pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
> The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?
Because it's frightening. And the world thought that it had learned how to
prevent a repeat of the Great Depression.
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
> was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and other
> items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
> it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit is drying up.
> People are losing their houses at an alarming rate. Stock markets are
> plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,
> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
During the Depression the unemployment rate in the US was around 25% and it
lasted for years. We're nowhere near that point as yet, and governments
around the world are bending over backwards to not repeat the mistakes that
followed the stock market crash of 1929 and brought on the Depression.
At the moment, stock prices, house prices, and unemployment are within the
worst they've been in my adult lifetime. Today's unemployment rate was
considered "full employment" back in the 1970's. During part of that
decade, there was a wage/price freeze that seemed to work for a while, but
lead to all kinds of disruptions in the economy. Maybe it's tough to get a
mortgage today, but back then interest rates were 17% or more, and that was
on top of a 12% general inflation rate. Fuel prices during that decade went
up 400% or more, and the government was telling us how fast we could drive
and what the furnace thermostat setting should be.
We lived though all of that, and so far this is nothing. Maybe history will
call this the beginning of another Depression, but it's by no means certain
at this point.
clams_casino
>"OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
>
>
>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>>they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>>recession.
>>
>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>admitting that we are in a recession.
>>
>>
>
>A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In spite
>of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It seems
>pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
>
>
>
The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's
quite obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the
current financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a
decline and many project next quarter will be down as well.
>
>
>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
>>was a few months ago.
>>
Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.
>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
>>it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years.
>>
September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
August as well.
Lou
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:hfZGk.46391$Nu3....@newsfe14.iad...
> Lou wrote:
>
>>"OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>>> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>>> recession.
>>>
>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>
>>
>>A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In
>>spite of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It
>>seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
>>
>>
>
> The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
> reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's quite
> obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the current
> financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a decline and
> many project next quarter will be down as well.
Whatever the reason, the USA has not yet been in a recession recently. I'm
all but certain it will, but it hasn't yet. Most of the time, you don't
know when a recession started or ended until it's over.
>>
>>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
>>> was a few months ago.
>
> Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
> losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.
>
>
>
>>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it has
>>> been in more than 16 years.
You know, that sounds bad, and I don't mean to belittle it, but 16 years ago
was 1992. We all lived through that. Back in the 1970's, anything under 7%
unemployment was considered full employment, and that at a time when both
spouses holding down a paying job was more of an exception instead of the
rule. We lived through that too.
> September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
> down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
> August as well.
Here in NJ, the governor is talking about slashing state spending - nice
change from the last time around, when what they did was raise taxes to make
up the shortfall.
Jeff
> Lou wrote:
>
>> "OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>>
>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
>>> now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not
>>> a recession.
>>>
>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>
>>
>> A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In
>> spite of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened
>> yet. It seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still
>> out.
The US has had a negative savings rate since 2005. Now that was
"acceptable" because people felt wealthy with their homes appreciating
in value, that they felt they had more assets.
Consumer spending is some 70% of our economy, we have been growing the
economy on debt.
So, the question is what will the economy grow on? It can't be
government spending, because any "excess" there is propping up liquidity
and W really screwed the pooch on the deficit. It can't be increased
property values, because they are falling and it can't be increased
wages as wages are flat. It can't be the world, because foreign
investors are looking for real assets.
Jeff
Vic Smith
> I'd like to take this off track just a bit.
>
> The US has had a negative savings rate since 2005. Now that was
>"acceptable" because people felt wealthy with their homes appreciating
>in value, that they felt they had more assets.
>
I think the negative savings began before that.
Hey, there's a poster here who though home "value" translated into
wealth.
>Consumer spending is some 70% of our economy, we have been growing the
>economy on debt.
>
> So, the question is what will the economy grow on? It can't be
>government spending, because any "excess" there is propping up liquidity
>and W really screwed the pooch on the deficit. It can't be increased
>property values, because they are falling and it can't be increased
>wages as wages are flat. It can't be the world, because foreign
>investors are looking for real assets.
>
The answer is magic money, just like the past 10-15 years.
--Vic
clint
I think that most of you folks have no idea of what a depression is.
However, it is not your fault. You were probably born after the big one. I
am going to try to give you some idea of how bad a deep depression is. I was
born in the 1920's. The depression started in late 1929. The stock market
completely collapsed. People were jumping out of multi- story office
buildings because they couldn't cope with the fact that they had lost all of
their life savings. Then the run on the banks started. I can remember that
we lived in a cold water flat in Western Pa. My dad worked for the H.C.
Frick Coke Company and was laid off along with hundreds of others. No work,
regardless of the pay could be found. One of my earlier Christmas events was
a Santa gift of a small kids rocking chair and a tree. I don't know where
either one came from. I can remember my dad walking from Tarrs Pa. to Mount
Pleasant Pa., about 4 miles, to get a tooth pulled. He didn't have a nickle
for the street car & couldn't pay the dentist. I also remember my mother
sifting the governmen't surplus flour to remove the worms so she could bake
bread. Pork chops were selling for 4 cents a pound and not many people could
afford them. Families were torn apart and had to get rid of some of their
children to a relative or friend that could aford to feed them. As a
teen-ager things were not much better, but the political rumblings in Europe
in the late 30's resulted in a slow recovery. I don't want to bore you but a
depression is an extremely bad event that should be avoided if at all
possible.
Thanks for listening..............Clint
Rod Speed
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now they have been referring to this mess as a
> "Depression", and not a recession.
They're fools that wouldnt know what a real depression was if it bit them on their lard arses.
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly admitting that we are in a recession.
There hasnt even been a quarter of negative growth yet, let alone what qualifys for a technical recession.
> The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?
Because they have enough of a clue to realise what a depression is ?
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it was a few months ago. Banks are failing.
> Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.
Like hell they are.
> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years.
Dont believe that.
> Credit is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.
Only the fools that were stupid enough to sign up for what they couldnt possibly afford.
> Stock markets are plunging worldwide.
> Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,
Like hell they are.
> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.
Marginally.
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
More fool you. There hasnt even been a single quarter of negative growth yet, let alone even a technical recession.
> I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it is going to end up being referred to as such.
I doubt it.
> I've managed a retail business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics, plus Money & Banking in
> college. I'm no expert, certainly,
Thats obvious.
> but my gut feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on over the past year is that this is
> going to last a while, no matter what the government does.
Sure, but we survived the great depression and will survive another if it does come to that.
> We have reached the point where people are going to tighten up the belts for a while.
Yep, lots of mindless neurotics just make a downturn much worse.
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time to be realists. Time to face the facts.
You wouldnt know what a real fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.
Rod Speed
Thats what fools did after the 1929 wall st crash and that just made things a lot worse.
> nice change from the last time around,
We'll see...
Rod Speed
> clams_casino wrote:
>> Lou wrote:
>>
>>> "OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message
>>> news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
>>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
>>>> now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and
>>>> not a recession.
>>>>
>>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In spite of appearances and regardless of mood,
>>> that hasn't happened
>>> yet. It seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is
>>> still out.
> I'd like to take this off track just a bit.
> The US has had a negative savings rate since 2005.
Only if you're actually stupid enough to ignore what people paid into their mortgages and IRAs etc.
> Now that was "acceptable" because people felt wealthy with their homes appreciating in value, that they felt they had
> more assets.
And they really did have more assets too.
> Consumer spending is some 70% of our economy, we have been growing the economy on debt.
Nothing new about that. Thats been happening for much of the last century.
> So, the question is what will the economy grow on?
The usual stuff, what people spend.
> It can't be government spending, because any "excess" there is propping up liquidity and W really screwed the pooch on
> the deficit.
You cant ignore the trillion being spent on the bailout etc.
> It can't be increased property values, because they are falling
Thats not what grows the economy anyway.
> and it can't be increased wages as wages are flat.
For now.
> It can't be the world, because foreign investors are looking for real assets.
They wont get any choice on that.
Lou
"clint" <clinton...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%DaHk.1584$yI6...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> I think that most of you folks have no idea of what a depression is.
> However, it is not your fault. You were probably born after the big one.
I'm one of those - born in 1949. I remember my parents, grandparents, and
in-laws talking about what they had to do to survive those years. There are
a few differences between then and now.
> I am going to try to give you some idea of how bad a deep depression is. I
> was born in the 1920's. The depression started in late 1929. The stock
> market completely collapsed.
Yeah, the stock market lost 85% of its value. So far recently, the stock
market losses have been about average for a bear market (average is about
35%).
> People were jumping out of multi- story office buildings because they
> couldn't cope with the fact that they had lost all of their life savings.
> Then the run on the banks started.
What I was told is that the government eventually declared a bank holiday -
in other words, they closed the banks. Government examiners determined
which banks were solvent and which were not. The ones that were not were
closed down. There was no deposit insurance - the money that people had
deposited in those banks simply disappeared. Whatever else has happened
recently or will happen in the near term, bank deposits are not going to
simply disappear.
>I can remember that we lived in a cold water flat in Western Pa. My dad
>worked for the H.C. Frick Coke Company and was laid off along with hundreds
>of others. No work, regardless of the pay could be found. One of my earlier
>Christmas events was a Santa gift of a small kids rocking chair and a tree.
>I don't know where either one came from. I can remember my dad walking from
>Tarrs Pa. to Mount Pleasant Pa., about 4 miles, to get a tooth pulled. He
>didn't have a nickle for the street car & couldn't pay the dentist. I also
>remember my mother sifting the governmen't surplus flour to remove the
>worms so she could bake bread. Pork chops were selling for 4 cents a pound
>and not many people could afford them. Families were torn apart and had to
>get rid of some of their children to a relative or friend that could aford
>to feed them. As a teen-ager things were not much better, but the political
>rumblings in Europe in the late 30's resulted in a slow recovery. I don't
>want to bore you but a depression is an extremely bad event that should be
>avoided if at all possible.
My family didn't have it quite that bad - someone in the household had an
income, even if it was only tips from shining shoes. I guess they were
luckier than your family.
> Thanks for listening..............Clint
Thanks for your post - it helps put the hysterical gloom and doom we've been
hearing lately in perspective.
OhioGuy
>and it lasted for years. We're nowhere near that point as yet
Seems as if many places here in Ohio are already halfway there - 12%
unemployment in a number of cities. There are $80K houses that go
unsold for half that, because the jobs are gone.
OhioGuy
I don't know about you guys, but I was paying 79c a gallon for gas
back in 1998. That was the regular price here in Dayton, Ohio. We
lived in a house right next to a gas station, so I was usually aware of
what gas prices were. I probably even have a picture around here
somewhere that has the gas price in the background.
Multiply that by 4 (400%) and that is about what we've been paying
lately for gas - 400% over the last decade. So saying this isn't like
the 70's, at least fuel-wise, is not true.
OhioGuy
>nice change from the last time around, when what they did was raise
>taxes to make up the shortfall.
Hear, hear. Let's hope there is more of that. It seems that when
income goes down, the government's first response is always to increase
taxes.
I think people could relate to government a little better if the
first response was "hmm, I guess we'd better tighten our belts a bit".
Vic Smith
As long as they fix the potholes.
--Vic
George
NJ (and some other NE states) governors want to lease/sell various
highways to private operators. It is a genius move if you are a
politician (but bad for the taxpayers) because all of the proposals
involve large up front payments. That way Gov <insert clueless
politician name here> can use the temporary large rise of funds to look
great.
Jeff
> >Fuel prices during that decade went up 400% or more,
>
> I don't know about you guys, but I was paying 79c a gallon for gas
> back in 1998.
I remember when gas was just over a dollar and truckers were howling
(during Clinton). Remember W saying he would jawbone the Arabs?
Now, where I live we now have a different perspective.
I paid for $4.29 and was very happy. Beat pushing the car!
Absolutely everything is worse. I think we can see what happens when
you let the government be run by guys that hate government and love big oil.
The economy under W never really got going, so they kept pushing out
cheap money to fuel it. I mean it's not like you couldn't see the
housing and credit bubbles blowing up, it was so obvious. All of this is
a direct consequence of the monetary policies.
Target is already running into trouble (CC defaults). Forecasts for
the XMAS shopping season are dire.
Now, we have turned into a very soft culture. It won't take much
adversity to make Americans very unhappy. It'll be what they call "a
game changer".
Jeff
Lou
"OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gcl36d$s4b$1...@aioe.org...
Saying that it's not unprecedented is accurate. Saying that what's happened
in the last few weeks, or even the last year, is tantamount to a depression
is grossly overstating the present situation.
Frank
"OhioGuy" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1...@aioe.org...
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
Figures, Europe is worse than we are.
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession.
That's is debatable, but I do hear the "R" word more and more as our economy
is sliding downhill.
The Depression word seems to be
> avoided at all costs. Why is that?
>
>
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
> was a few months ago.
That hurts, will take a few years to break even.
Banks are failing. Inflation on food and
> other items has approached 40%.
Short financials - damn, short the whole market and make a bundle.
Unemployment is going up and up - in
> our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit is
> drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate. Stock
> markets are plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping at
> dollar stores, and even the dollar stores are finally raising their
> prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
No, no, no...nowhere near this level. At best its a recession. Give a few
months for the trillion plus dollar bailout to work things out. Market is
ready for a pop, cash and credit will flow, real estate will recover,
hopefully by mid 2009.
Great buys in real estate and stocks if you had stayed in king cash. The
problem is we as Americans don't save and more likely be in debt so it looks
like a depression.
> I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it
> is going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
> business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics, plus
> Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut feeling
> at this point after watching everything that has been going on over the
> past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what the
> government does. We have reached the point where people are going to
> tighten up the belts for a while.
>
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time to
> be realists. Time to face the facts.
>
This cycle is different, where everything is down with no place to hide.
Market is dominated by fear with everything is over sold. The bottom is
near. and as always, the up cycle is coming.
clams_casino
> OhioGuy wrote:
>
>> >Fuel prices during that decade went up 400% or more,
>>
>> I don't know about you guys, but I was paying 79c a gallon for gas
>> back in 1998.
>
>
> I remember when gas was just over a dollar and truckers were howling
> (during Clinton). Remember W saying he would jawbone the Arabs?
>
> Now, where I live we now have a different perspective.
> I paid for $4.29 and was very happy. Beat pushing the car!
>
>
Paid $3.08 this past weekend.
Dennis
Agreed.
Both my parents experienced the Great Depression first-hand. Many
after supper discussions while I was growing up recounted how things
were for them in the 30's and 40's.
My mom's father was the town butcher in a small coal mining town in
New Mexico. They didn't have any luxuries, but managed to keep a roof
overhead and food on the table.
My dad, his two brothers and their father spent the much of the lean
years in the rural hills of eastern Washington state. They lived in a
small community of log cabins with no electricity or running water.
They farmed, hunted and cut firewood to scratch out a living, pretty
much subsistence-level.
Oddly, both sometimes seemed almost a bit nostalgic about it while
telling the stories.
--
It looks like freedom
But it smells like death
It's something in between,
I guess
It's closing time - Leonard Cohen
JonL
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?
My guess is, the term isn't used for the same reason 90% of storms at
sea aren't given names. (too weak to qualify as typhoons/hurricanes)
Locally, it might seem like, or feel like a depression, but that doesn't
make it so. (feelings ain't facts)
from Wisegeek:
What is the Difference Between a Depression and a Recession?
Many econ-types are predicting a long, deep recession or a Mild to Fair
Depression.
The latest from the Trends-dude"
Celente - Bailout A Bust - Depression To Follow
http://www.trendsresearch.com/
<snipped>
Beyond the $1 trillion subprime problem that's been erroneously targeted
as the prime culprit behind the credit crisis are more serious financial
catastrophes that are barely reported, mostly overlooked and can't be
remedied. The Fed can't print enough money to paper over the $531.2
trillion in derivatives and credit swaps, the trillions in the overbuilt
commercial real estate market ready to collapse, the multi-trillions in
leveraged buyouts going bust, and other "exotic" financial instruments
that have turned toxic.
Trendpost: The Panic of '08 is "On." Yet, the instant the Dow crashed
678 points today, Bloomberg Radio brought on an expert who declared
"most of the crash is behind us" and said the market plunge presented "a
good buying opportunity." We see things differently. Yesterday's
lowering of interest rates and the continual Fed action to flood the
markets with money will lead to an era of hyper-inflation, the likes of
which no living American has ever seen.
<snip>
In 2008, Americans will wake up to the worst economic times that anyone
alive has ever seen. ~Gerald Celente, Trends Research
Institute,12-17-2007
JonL
JonL
Look at the bright side. That official number,12%,would be much higher
if calculated the same way as during the Carter era. Clinton destroyed
whatever credibility was left in the official figures.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data
The popularly followed unemployment rate was 5.5% in July 2004,
seasonally adjusted. That is known as U-3, one of six unemployment rates
published by the BLS. The broadest U-6 measure was 9.5%, including
discouraged and marginally attached workers.
Up until the Clinton administration, a discouraged worker was one who
was willing, able and ready to work but had given up looking because
there were no jobs to be had. The Clinton administration dismissed to
the non-reporting netherworld about five million discouraged workers who
had been so categorized for more than a year. Adding in the netherworld
takes the unemployment rate up to about 12.5%.
The Clinton administration also reduced monthly household sampling from
60,000 to about 50,000, eliminating significant surveying in the inner
cities. Despite claims of corrective statistical adjustments, reported
unemployment among people of color declined sharply, and the piggybacked
poverty survey showed a remarkable reversal in decades of worsening
poverty trends.
(trivia: b4 leaving office, it was changed back to sampling 60k, a gift
for the new prez, I guess)
Shadowstats debunked
http://tinyurl.com/4k634w
Nicik Name
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
>
>
> items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
> People are losing their houses at an alarming rate. Stock markets are
> plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,
> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.
>
> going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
> business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics, plus
> Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut feeling
> at this point after watching everything that has been going on over the
> past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what the
> government does. We have reached the point where people are going to
> tighten up the belts for a while.
>
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time to
> be realists. Time to face the facts.
USD..........
Don Klipstein
>OhioGuy wrote:
>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>> recession.
>
>>The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?
>
>My guess is, the term isn't used for the same reason 90% of storms at
>sea aren't given names. (too weak to qualify as typhoons/hurricanes)
Also with most cyclones being "extratropical" - with different
mechanisms and different characteristics from "tropical cyclones" even in
the case of the few that achieve "hurricane force".
Anyhoo, the term "depression" used to mean a distinct low pressure area
distinct enough to be distinguished as a cyclone.
Nowadays, I mainly hear "depression" in meteorology referring to
officially noted/numbered tropical ones, as in being distinct tropical
cyclones, with thermodynamic mechanism of tropical cyclone type and wind
profile like that of "tropical storms", and having a pressure pattern
intense and circular to an extent to achieve a surface-level isobar at any
of the multiples of 4 millibars being at least roughly as circular as an
egg.
Most of the officially-noted those in my experience progress into named
storms. So far for the "Atlantic Basin" in 2008, all "officially-noted"
13 of them have done so.
<SNIP stuff going back to "depression" being an economic phenomenon as
opposed to a meteorological one>
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Tony
OhioGuy wrote:
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
> now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession. The Depression word seems to be
> avoided at all costs. Why is that?
>
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what
> it was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and
> other items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in
> our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit
> is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.
> Stock markets are plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping
> at dollar stores, and even the dollar stores are finally raising their
> prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
> I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it
> is going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
> business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
> plus Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut
> feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on
> over the past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what
> the government does. We have reached the point where people are going
> to tighten up the belts for a while.
>
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time
> to be realists. Time to face the facts.
--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
No, I just decided not to play your silly game is all. *Some* of us know
proper manners
Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
the realm of understandability
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday