Frugal solar panels?
oprah....@gmail.com
research online and quickly get discouraged by the high price tags
and mediocre performance. Has anyone had any luck with them?
Rod Speed
Seerialmom
in some areas (and of course I don't know where yours is) there are
companies that are doing something similar to a "lease" of the solar
panels. Now I'm not sure if you get to keep the "overflow" if there
was any (like how some utilities will credit you back if you produce
more than you use); but it's a fairly reasonable cost; they're
advertising around here for $85 a month. The one advertising around
here is "Solarcity":
Lou
8%/year to come up with a net present value in today's dollars. That
percentage seems high to me - we haven't seen inflation at that level since
Carter was President.
The example also assumes that at the end of your 15 year lease, you'll buy
the system for $13,500 (presumably, that's the price discounted to today's
net present value, so the nominal price would be higher). I don't know what
used equipment of this sort goes for, but that seems high as well,
considering that they say the stuff costs $17,800 when they install it.
A few minutes of back of the envelope calculating, and assuming their
initial price is more or less correct, if you went out and bought the
system, financing it with a 15 year loan, it'd probably cost somewhere
around $110 - $120 month. That's more than the lease payments over the same
period, but at the end you'd have the system without that $13,500 balloon
payment, meaning you'd be able to hang onto somewhere around $10,000 instead
of giving it to them.
The stuff about increasing power costs and net metering apply whether you
buy or lease, but I'm not sure about government rebates. And of course,
their numbers are averages - some months you'll probably owe the electric
company money, while others you may get a credit.
I wonder if this kind of installation reduces the need for power plants,
transmission lines, etc. Since they're tied to the grid and are without
battery backup, whenever the sun isn't shining, a traditional power plant
has to take up the slack, and the net effect might be to increase the price
of electricity for everyone because all that capacity will be used a smaller
percentage of the time.
No new material below, included for reference only.
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"Seerialmom" <seeri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:80340250-36c4-4b7a...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Jeff
Your best investment with solar is thermal used to offset heating and
hot water. The panels cost a fraction of the PV and the efficiency is
much higher (~50%). You can buy the guts and build the boxes yourself
(and save about a half or so) if you wish. I built both, and still have
a bit of work to do. Lowering energy usage through insulation and more
efficient appliances is your best value.
As far as PV goes, there's a few things that may be coming down the
pike in about the $1/watt range.
You can ask in alt.solar.pv .
Jeff
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>Every year I get excited about installing solar panels. I then do my
>research online and quickly get discouraged by the high price tags
>and mediocre performance...
PVs are hideously expensive compared to solar heat from a sunspace, which
can cost 100 times less per peak watt and provide useful floorspace. Most
US houses need several times more heat energy than electrical energy.
With a $50 used car radiator and its 20 watt fans, a sunspace can also
store 140 F water in a large unpressurized tank containing a $60 1"x300'
13-gallon pressurized plastic pipe coil to make hot water for showers.
The same radiator can heat the house with tank water on cloudy days.
Amorphous silicon solar electricity should get cheaper in a year or so,
with companies like XsunX coming on line with a manufacturing cost close
to $1.50 per peak watt for panels which produce more electricity than other
kinds in dim sun and high temperatures. XsunX stock seems interesting at
42 cents/share, with a $21 million venture capital commitment, which isn't
easy to get these days. Unisolar's similar product has a long waiting list.
Nick
OhioGuy
>water
I second that, especially if you don't live in the Southwest, or if you
live anywhere that has numerous cloudy days.
Due to the higher efficiency of solar water heating panels, you can get
good returns even in places like Ohio, where solar panels don't make much
sense. (at current efficiency ratings anyway) Even on cloudy days, there is
often enough solar radiant energy to heat water for showers, etc.
Of course, the very best way to make an investment that pays for itself
is to build an underground or earth banked house. This gives you passive
heating and cooling, using the earth itself as a massive heatsink. In the
case of an earth banked house, it can also be relatively inexpensive, since
you just have a plain wall without many of the usual expensive exterior
options.
Gordon
>>Your best investment with solar is thermal used to offset >heating and
>>hot water
>
> I second that, especially if you don't live in the Southwest, or if
> you
> live anywhere that has numerous cloudy days.
>
> Due to the higher efficiency of solar water heating panels, you can
> get
> good returns even in places like Ohio, where solar panels don't make
> much sense. (at current efficiency ratings anyway) Even on cloudy
> days, there is often enough solar radiant energy to heat water for
> showers, etc.
>
Don't forget about passive solar. I have the great advantage to
live in a house with three large south facing windows. Durring the
spring and fall I hardly ever run the heat.
Dennis
<go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>Don't forget about passive solar. I have the great advantage to
>live in a house with three large south facing windows. Durring the
>spring and fall I hardly ever run the heat.
Perhaps you tolerate large termperature swings (or a lower average
temperature) better than me. I live in the same area/climate as you,
have a well-insulated home (built in 1996 to better-than-code specs)
with large SE-facing windows, and I ran the furnace plenty this
spring. We keep the thermostat set at 68F 24/7 during heating season.
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
Jeff
>> Your best investment with solar is thermal used to offset >heating and hot
>> water
>
> I second that, especially if you don't live in the Southwest, or if you
> live anywhere that has numerous cloudy days.
>
> Due to the higher efficiency of solar water heating panels, you can get
> good returns even in places like Ohio, where solar panels don't make much
> sense. (at current efficiency ratings anyway) Even on cloudy days, there is
> often enough solar radiant energy to heat water for showers, etc.
>
> Of course, the very best way to make an investment that pays for itself
> is to build an underground or earth banked house.
No doubt you've seen the earth banked rest stations on some of Ohio's
Interstates.
On another note, there's increasing interest in homebrew concentrating
solar electric generation. No one yet has made the breakthrough design.
I think it's out there... You can use the "waste" heat for hot water and
home heating. If you have some land, there's fertile ground here.
Jeff
Gordon
news:2fms64dorqcl8ce87...@4ax.com:
Normally I just run the heat for about 20-30 minutes in the
morning to blow the chill off the house (I like to sleep in
a cool house). Then i turn it off and let the sun maintain
the temp.
This year has been different. The crappy cloudy weather
has forced me to run the heat more than I would normally
like. My gas and electric bills bear that out. But then,
one year does not a trend make.
Ron Peterson
A couple of my neighbors on my street have solar panels, but I think
that they just use them because they work in energy conservation.
Solar is starting to become practical where there is plenty of
sunshine and electric rates are high. Remote locations, where one
can't get on the grid at all offer the best payoff, but some type of
battery storage would then be necessary.
--
Ron