Questions About Stand Alone DSL
Jack
local ISP whose people speak English and which has a good reputation
for its dial-up service. The sales guy said that this requires a
stand alone connection which involves an installation fee.
1) Do they connect the router/modem to the phone box that's located on
the outside of the house?
2) If so, is there any need for them to come in the house for any
hardware or software installation?
3) If I keep a cheap-dial-up as a back up, would I need to uninstall
any of the stand alone stuff, either inside or outside, in order to
connect with the dial-up? Thanks guys.
Dave
"Jack" <Windswept@Home> wrote in message
news:48b466c4...@news-60.giganews.com...
> Rather than get DSL thru Verizon phone co., I'm thinking of using a
> local ISP whose people speak English and which has a good reputation
> for its dial-up service. The sales guy said that this requires a
> stand alone connection which involves an installation fee.
>
> 1) Do they connect the router/modem to the phone box that's located on
> the outside of the house?
No, there are two installations to be done. Neither will touch the box on
the outside of the house, unless you want a special jack installed just for
DSL use. (not necessary, you can use any existing jack)
The first is inside your home. You connect the DSL modem straight to a
phone plug. (then connect the DSL modem to your computer with an ethernet
cord). If you have normal telephones or fax machines on the same line, you
will need to install "filters" on those plugs so that the DSL doesn't
interfere with your normal phone use. You can install the filters yourself.
They are a small box that goes between your wall plug and your phone (or
answering machine or fax machine, whatever). This part of the install
should take about 10 minutes total, if you are slow, and have to read the
directions for 9 minutes. (!)
The second installation is done at your local CO, which is equipment outside
your home that is owned by the phone company. No matter who you order DSL
from, your LOCAL phone company will have to do this part of the install.
Basically, the DSL is connected (at the CO) to your specific wire that leads
to your house/apartment. This happens outside your home, far away from your
property. Again, keep in mind that the PHONE company does this part of the
install. So if you order and the installation is delayed, don't yell and
scream too loudly at the ISP that you ordered DSL from...the second part of
the install is out of their hands. But if the install doesn't happen as
scheduled, you still need to call the ISP to let them know, so that they can
call the phone company and light a fire under their asses.
> 2) If so, is there any need for them to come in the house for any
> hardware or software installation?
They shouldn't NEED to come into your house, unless you feel that you need
help in hooking up the modem. It's pretty easy though, so you should be
able to do it yourself. Main thing is to not get confused about the
filters. The filters are for all equipment that is NOT the DSL modem. Oh,
and whatever you do, make sure that the DSL modem provided by your ISP has
an ETHERNET connection (not USB) to your computer. Brand doesn't matter
much, as long as it's got the ethernet connection for the computer (or
router, see below)
>
> 3) If I keep a cheap-dial-up as a back up, would I need to uninstall
> any of the stand alone stuff, either inside or outside, in order to
> connect with the dial-up? Thanks guys.
Nope. As long as you remember to install the filters on all plugs NOT used
by the DSL modem, then your regular dial-up modem should work the same as it
does now. If you forget to install a filter, the DSL might interfere with
dial-up modem use. But if you install the filters correctly, dial-up modem
should be happy.
On a side note, get yourself a broadband sharing router for DSL use. This
is mandatory, IMHO. You do not want to install PPPOE software on any
computer, ever. The router will maintain the PPPOE connection for you, with
firmware. Don't get me wrong, DSL is AWESOME. But PPPOE software sucks,
big time. So use a router instead. Your install instructions from the ISP
will state to install PPPOE software (skip this part) and then enter user
name and password into PPPOE software. Instead, take that same user name
and password, and use it to program the PPPOE settings in your router setup
menu. The router should be between your DSL modem and your computer.
DONE! -Dave
George
> Rather than get DSL thru Verizon phone co., I'm thinking of using a
> local ISP whose people speak English and which has a good reputation
> for its dial-up service. The sales guy said that this requires a
> stand alone connection which involves an installation fee.
Actually all Verizon DSL support is provided from someplace I can't
remember in California.
>
> 1) Do they connect the router/modem to the phone box that's located on
> the outside of the house?
>
> 2) If so, is there any need for them to come in the house for any
> hardware or software installation?
>
> 3) If I keep a cheap-dial-up as a back up, would I need to uninstall
> any of the stand alone stuff, either inside or outside, in order to
> connect with the dial-up? Thanks guys.
>
>
You will make yourself a lot more excitement if you do this because
whenever their is a problem the first suggestion will be that it is the
other company. I have no love for Verizon but they actually do a pretty
decent job with DSL.
Bill
of a guy at work who installs software a year after everyone
else and then acts like he's bleeding edge and calls people to
see what their experience is because he wants to make sure it's
not going to cause him problems.
The fact is that millions of people have Verizon DSL (source:
http://www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/2008/01/28/) and you're
worried about a year commitment because you've read a few
complaints and you obviously think you're going to have
problems. This is not new technology and the VAST majority of
people have no problems with it. Of course they do not post so
you're not going to see their stories posted.
You're now looking to get DSL from a 3rd party. They'll have to
get the service from Verizon. You will pay more and if you have
problems you will have to go through the company you bought from
who will have to work with Verizon and you can enjoy the
finger-pointing when they each say it's the other's problem. The
times I've had to call Verizon Tech Support they've been
surprisingly good. They were up in Canada when I last dealt with
them.
Just order it from Verizon (and take advantage of their current
deal to give you the first 6 months free, be sure to ask for
it). The odds are you won't problems but if you do, you can
cancel. And on the 6 months free deal, the cancellation fee is
only $49 so it pretty much pays for itself in the free months of
service should you decide to cancel.
By the way, someplace like www.dslreports.com is a much better
place to ask your questions, as opposed to consumer-related
newsgroups. I am always amused by people who think that consumer
groups are the perfect place to ask for computer advice.
Bill
George
> Jack wrote:
>> Rather than get DSL thru Verizon phone co., I'm thinking of using a
>> local ISP whose people speak English and which has a good reputation
>> for its dial-up service. The sales guy said that this requires a
>> stand alone connection which involves an installation fee.
>>
>> 1) Do they connect the router/modem to the phone box that's located on
>> the outside of the house?
>>
>> 2) If so, is there any need for them to come in the house for any
>> hardware or software installation?
>>
>> 3) If I keep a cheap-dial-up as a back up, would I need to uninstall
>> any of the stand alone stuff, either inside or outside, in order to
>> connect with the dial-up? Thanks guys.
Bill wrote:
> I've read your earlier thread with amusement since you remind me
> of a guy at work who installs software a year after everyone
> else and then acts like he's bleeding edge and calls people to
> see what their experience is because he wants to make sure it's
> not going to cause him problems.
>
> The fact is that millions of people have Verizon DSL (source:
> http://www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/2008/01/28/) and you're
> worried about a year commitment because you've read a few
> complaints and you obviously think you're going to have
> problems. This is not new technology and the VAST majority of
> people have no problems with it. Of course they do not post so
> you're not going to see their stories posted.
>
> You're now looking to get DSL from a 3rd party. They'll have to
> get the service from Verizon.
Well it can get more complicated than that if you work at it...
Verizon is the ILEC in my area. There is a CLEC that offers services
including DSL and in almost all areas they rent Verizon's copper and
have their own DSLAMs at the CO. So instead of one provider now you get
to deal with two.
You will pay more and if you have
> problems you will have to go through the company you bought from
> who will have to work with Verizon and you can enjoy the
> finger-pointing when they each say it's the other's problem. The
> times I've had to call Verizon Tech Support they've been
> surprisingly good. They were up in Canada when I last dealt with
> them.
>
> Just order it from Verizon (and take advantage of their current
> deal to give you the first 6 months free, be sure to ask for
> it). The odds are you won't problems but if you do, you can
> cancel. And on the 6 months free deal, the cancellation fee is
> only $49 so it pretty much pays for itself in the free months of
> service should you decide to cancel.
Good advice.
Jack
>Just order it from Verizon (and take advantage of their current
>deal to give you the first 6 months free, be sure to ask for
>it).
Huh?
The Internet offer is for the first month free and then $19.99
monthly.
The telephone offer is for no months free and $21.95 monthly.
They'll tell me to go ______ myself.
Bill
Check out this discussion on Fatwallet:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/topic_view.php?catid=18&threadid=853672
Worst case they'll say "Huh?" Best case they'll look it up and
tell you that you qualify.
If you choose not to believe me, be my guest. Nice to see you
ignored the rest of my post.
BTW, existing customers out of contract can get a similar deal,
5 months free.
Bill
aemeijers
pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next door to the
telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an unswitched pair from my
house to their server farm. No dial tone on the pair at all. No need for
filters or any of that junk. It does require a center pair/2nd pair
splitter or reverse-wired jack for the modem, though.
--
aem sends...
Dave
> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the voice
> pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
> yellow-black wires.
I didn't know anybody did that.
Jack
You think that I haven't dialed-in my no. at the Verizon site? No
such offer was forthcoming.
As for the rest of your earlier post .... I know that many people use
Verizon DSL but the % of online complaints exceed those pertaining to
dial-up. I'm not tech-savvy and have to rely on support. Hell, even
the Verizon telephone saleswoman was snotty and didn't seem to care
whether I signed-up.
You're amused that I contacted consumer groups. I also sent this same
message via another Usenet server (to avoid spamming) to various tech
groups. Also, your recommendation to contact dslreports.com was an
excellent suggestion that was not offered by the tech groups. Ergo,
contacting a consumer group wasn't such a bad idea.
krw
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, aeme...@att.net says...
Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO. That's
got to cost someone.
--
Keith
Dave
>> pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
>> yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next door to the
>> telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an unswitched pair from my
>> house to their server farm. No dial tone on the pair at all. No need for
>> filters or any of that junk. It does require a center pair/2nd pair
>> splitter or reverse-wired jack for the modem, though.
>
> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO. That's
> got to cost someone.
>
> --
> Keith
No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it, only one of
which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually. -Dave
krw
says...
All pairs are used in the trunk lines. DOing otherwise would be a
waste of copper.
--
Keith
Rod Speed
> In article <g94pka$3nn$1...@registered.motzarella.org>, no...@nohow.not
> says...
>>>> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the
>>>> voice pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka
>>>> the yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next
>>>> door to the telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an
>>>> unswitched pair from my house to their server farm. No dial tone
>>>> on the pair at all. No need for filters or any of that junk. It
>>>> does require a center pair/2nd pair splitter or reverse-wired jack
>>>> for the modem, though.
>>> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO.
That never happens.
>>> That's got to cost someone.
>> No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it,
>> only one of which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually.
> All pairs are used in the trunk lines.
Wrong, as always. There are always some spares so they dont have
to run a new cable when someone gets a new phone connection.
> DOing otherwise would be a waste of copper.
Leaves running a new line right back to the CO when someone gets a new phone connection for dead.
krw
rod.sp...@gmail.com says...
> krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> > In article <g94pka$3nn$1...@registered.motzarella.org>, no...@nohow.not
> > says...
> >>>> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the
> >>>> voice pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka
> >>>> the yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next
> >>>> door to the telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an
> >>>> unswitched pair from my house to their server farm. No dial tone
> >>>> on the pair at all. No need for filters or any of that junk. It
> >>>> does require a center pair/2nd pair splitter or reverse-wired jack
> >>>> for the modem, though.
>
> >>> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO.
>
> That never happens.
>
> >>> That's got to cost someone.
>
> >> No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it,
> >> only one of which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually.
>
> > All pairs are used in the trunk lines.
>
> Wrong, as always. There are always some spares so they dont have
> to run a new cable when someone gets a new phone connection.
No, Ronnie there are NOT always spares. Sometimes they've already
been used and the telco starts using "pair gain" techniques. Though
this is hardly the point here, idiot.
> > DOing otherwise would be a waste of copper.
>
> Leaves running a new line right back to the CO when someone gets a new phone connection for dead.
You truly are an idiot, Ronnie.
--
Keith
Rod Speed
krw <k...@att.biz> desperately attempted to bullshit its way out
of its predicament and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.
Bill
>
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:08:43 GMT, Bill <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >Jack wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:24:46 GMT, Bill <bill...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Just order it from Verizon (and take advantage of their current
> >> >deal to give you the first 6 months free, be sure to ask for
> >> >it).
> >>
> >> Huh?
> >>
> >> The Internet offer is for the first month free and then $19.99
> >> monthly.
> >>
> >> The telephone offer is for no months free and $21.95 monthly.
> >>
> >> They'll tell me to go ______ myself.
> >
> >Check out this discussion on Fatwallet:
> >
> >http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/topic_view.php?catid=18&threadid=853672
> >
> >Worst case they'll say "Huh?" Best case they'll look it up and
> >tell you that you qualify.
> >
> >If you choose not to believe me, be my guest. Nice to see you
> >ignored the rest of my post.
> >
> >BTW, existing customers out of contract can get a similar deal,
> >5 months free.
> >
> >Bill
>
> You think that I haven't dialed-in my no. at the Verizon site? No
> such offer was forthcoming.
Well then call and tell them that you've heard that this offer
is available and that you want it. I don't know how much more
proof I have to give you before you believe me that the deal
DOES exist.
> As for the rest of your earlier post .... I know that many people use
> Verizon DSL but the % of online complaints exceed those pertaining to
> dial-up. I'm not tech-savvy and have to rely on support. Hell, even
> the Verizon telephone saleswoman was snotty and didn't seem to care
> whether I signed-up.
Probably because you asked so many stupid questions and kept
acting like you were the first person to ever sign up for DSL.
The odds are that your DSL will work fine and all of this
worrying will have been a waste. My 80 year old father installed
DSL and has no problems with it.
And you're always going to be able to find people complaining if
you look for them. I'm surprised there are many Verizon dialup
users anymore so comparing the complaint numbers is really
meaningless.
Bill
Jack
I did.
It requires VoiP
At additional cost.
>> As for the rest of your earlier post .... I know that many people use
>> Verizon DSL but the % of online complaints exceed those pertaining to
>> dial-up. I'm not tech-savvy and have to rely on support. Hell, even
>> the Verizon telephone saleswoman was snotty and didn't seem to care
>> whether I signed-up.
>
>Probably because you asked so many stupid questions and kept
>acting like you were the first person to ever sign up for DSL.
>The odds are that your DSL will work fine and all of this
>worrying will have been a waste. My 80 year old father installed
>DSL and has no problems with it.
Nope. When she revealed that the offer was for $21.95, I advised her
that the online offer was $19.95 with first month free.
At that point she copped an attitude.
I gotta stop asking those stupid questions.
>And you're always going to be able to find people complaining if
>you look for them. I'm surprised there are many Verizon dialup
>users anymore so comparing the complaint numbers is really
>meaningless.
Meaningless to you.
Speak for y'self, sonny.
George
They offered a lower price on line for the do it yourself version where
you enter your own order. I don't see any particular problem about them
passing on the savings to you.
From reading this thread it really sounds like you have overthought a
routine everyday thing that works well for millions of users especially
since you have 30 days to just put the modem back in the box and quit
with no cost. This isn't like you are going to have say a surgical
procedure where some irreversible state will exist after the procedure.
Jack
wrote:
Nope.
I don't either.
> From reading this thread it really sounds like you have overthought a
>routine everyday thing that works well for millions of users especially
>since you have 30 days to just put the modem back in the box and quit
>with no cost. This isn't like you are going to have say a surgical
>procedure where some irreversible state will exist after the procedure.
Probably right.
But if newsgroups are to inform, I'll ask questions as I see fit, even
though they are stupid to those of you who are technologically-savvy.
In another group, I answer medico-legal questions about a govt.
disability program in which I had 30 years experience.
Some people repeat their questions, and some questions seem so basic,
but I don't consider any sincere question as being stupid.
If you don't like my questions, just ignore any posts from "Jack."
krw
rod.sp...@gmail.com says...
> Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
> krw <k...@att.biz> desperately attempted to bullshit its way out
> of its predicament and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.
Mark that as another admission of a lost argument for lil' Ronnie
Reaugh; now sitting in a corner with fingers in ears, humming
loudly.
--
Keith
Rod Speed
Bill
What??? VoiP from Verizon? With DSL? What are you TALKING
about???? Did you read the thread on Fatwallet that I pointed
you at? Did you see that people there have also gotten the deal?
I must admit, it's not often that we such a clueless person
ignoring good advice and thinking they know better than the
advice you're being given.
BTW what are the folks on DSLReports telling you?
Bill
Jack
Of course I read "Fatwallet." There was a lot of arguing and teasing
regarding irrelevant points such as grammatical style. The thread
went off-topic quickly after one person said that the deal required
purchase of additional products from Verizon. Read it yourself.
The deal offered here features 6 months free but it's sold thru a 3rd
party that sells VOiP. It's actually 18 months DSL for the price of
12, but requires the VOiP.
It's what is known as a "business collaboration."
Guess you don't know everything.
>I must admit, it's not often that we such a clueless person
>ignoring good advice and thinking they know better than the
>advice you're being given.
When answering questions within my area of expertise, I never insult
people who ask sincerely.
>BTW what are the folks on DSLReports telling you?
In this geographical area, the sole sources of broadband have been
Comcast and satellite. Lots of complaints about both at that website.
DSL is just beginning here. Nothing to report; certainly nothing
about 6 months free Verizon without strings attached.
George
I gave you a polite and reasonable answer. As others have suggested you
are reading way too much into the negative comments you found.
If I am looking for opinions I think it is sensible to completely
discard the bottom quarter and the top eighth because the bottom is
filled with a combination of whiners who would never be happy even if
gold coins started rolling out of their modem or are so inept or
impatient that they can't follow simple instructions and the top has the
shills and promoters.
Unqualified Affirmative Action Prince
>What??? VoiP from Verizon? With DSL? What are you TALKING
>about????
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-519764_ITM
Where do you live, Mars?
Verizon Rings in Next Generation of Voice Services With VoiceWing
Broadband Phone Service; Verizon Beats the Competition With Most
Extensive Commercial Launch of Residential Voice-Over-IP in America,
Offering It Nationally With Area Codes Covering 139 Markets in 33
States and the District of Columbia.
Publication Date: 22-JUL-04
Publication Title: PR Newswire
Format: Online
(snip)
Bill
Not Mars but I haven't seen any mention of that in years and had
completely forgotten about it. And I certainly haven't seen it
mentioned in regards to the 5 or 6 months free DSL offer.
Bill
Bill
>
> Of course I read "Fatwallet." There was a lot of arguing and teasing
> regarding irrelevant points such as grammatical style. The thread
> went off-topic quickly after one person said that the deal required
> purchase of additional products from Verizon. Read it yourself.
I read it and saw nothing of the sort. And I just reread it
myself and say no arguing about grammar. Nor do I see anything
about needing other products. I do see people saying they wish
they had FiOS. I did see lots of people reporting success
getting the deal (including me).
You seem to have an uncanny ability to ignore the good
information and pay attention to the irrelevant stuff. I guess
that is not surprising given your original concern about DSL
problems that so many people were having.
> The deal offered here features 6 months free but it's sold thru a 3rd
> party that sells VOiP. It's actually 18 months DSL for the price of
> 12, but requires the VOiP.
So you're saying that Verizon actually pointed you at a third
party?
>
> It's what is known as a "business collaboration."
>
> Guess you don't know everything.
>
> >I must admit, it's not often that we such a clueless person
> >ignoring good advice and thinking they know better than the
> >advice you're being given.
>
> When answering questions within my area of expertise, I never insult
> people who ask sincerely.
Sorry, but your postings left the "sincere" level several days
ago.
Bill
Jack
>Jack wrote:
>>
>> Of course I read "Fatwallet." There was a lot of arguing and teasing
>> regarding irrelevant points such as grammatical style. The thread
>> went off-topic quickly after one person said that the deal required
>> purchase of additional products from Verizon. Read it yourself.
>
>I read it and saw nothing of the sort. And I just reread it
>myself and say no arguing about grammar. Nor do I see anything
>about needing other products. I do see people saying they wish
>they had FiOS. I did see lots of people reporting success
>getting the deal (including me).
Read it again.
>You seem to have an uncanny ability to ignore the good
>information and pay attention to the irrelevant stuff. I guess
>that is not surprising given your original concern about DSL
>problems that so many people were having.
The relevant stuff to me was that the offer required extra services.
Of course, this is moot given that my concern is what's available in
my area, not Bumfuck Wisconsin or wherever.
And the Verizon offer in my area also requires the purchase of extra
services.
>> The deal offered here features 6 months free but it's sold thru a 3rd
>> party that sells VOiP. It's actually 18 months DSL for the price of
>> 12, but requires the VOiP.
>
>So you're saying that Verizon actually pointed you at a third
>party?
Ayuh.
>>
>> It's what is known as a "business collaboration."
>>
>> Guess you don't know everything.
>>
>> >I must admit, it's not often that we such a clueless person
>> >ignoring good advice and thinking they know better than the
>> >advice you're being given.
>>
>> When answering questions within my area of expertise, I never insult
>> people who ask sincerely.
>
>Sorry, but your postings left the "sincere" level several days
>ago.
There ya go again.
Messiah Snobama
What you haven't seen is not a microcosm of reality.
Verizon's Voice Services as parts of package offers are alive-and-well
and ubiquitous.
Bill
Messiah Snobama wrote:
>
> Verizon's Voice Services as parts of package offers are alive-and-well
> and ubiquitous.
Right, you have to be a Verizon voice customer to get the free
months of DSL. But the OP never said he was looking to get naked
DSL (I'd be surprised if he even knew what it was).
Bill
Jack
Hahhahahahaha.
Squirm, boy, squirm.
Bill
>
> Hahhahahahaha.
>
> Squirm, boy, squirm.
Don't call me boy.
I don't know why I continue to waste my time on you, something
about my desire to help the needy and clueless.
Our Best Offers Online
Plans starting at $19.99/mo.
Order now and get:
* 6 months FREE on select plans
* FREE wireless router with
3 Mbps or higher speeds
* FREE shipping and activation
on select plans
Jack
The key words are "select plans", boy.
In my area, the "select plans" require services I do not need or want,
at additional cost, of course.
But keep pushing the same envelope, and I, in my infinite patience,
will keep repeating the answer.
Bill
Actually, you repeatedly said that it was never offering you the
6 months free deal. You claimed that you were not going to ask
because you were afraid they'd call you bad names (well
deserved). You claimed it was simply not available in your area.
Now you're saying that it WAS offering you free months? You
really are a piece of work.
I hope at least someone else was able to make use of this
information that you have been told about repeatedly, since it
really is a great deal. It's not m fault you're too stupid to
realize it.
Jack
Go back and read the posts.
>I hope at least someone else was able to make use of this
>information that you have been told about repeatedly, since it
>really is a great deal. It's not m fault you're too stupid to
>realize it.
Squirm, boy, squirm.
Your were wrong and afraid to admit it.
And so you act like a puss, instead of man.
Take responsibility and admit you were wrond.