Idea for Cheap Alarm System
EdwardATeller
detector that sets off a loud siren. I think that would scare off the
majority of intruders. We come in through the garage, so I would
just throw the circuit breaker to turn it off. If anyone knows a
product like this, I'd love to hear about it.
Then I started thinking about something a little more elaborate. What
if you had a cell phone attached to the motion detector that could be
set to dial a number if it were set off? For example, it could dial
911 and play a recorded message saying the house address and there was
a burglary in process. Or it could dial my cell phone, and then I
could decide if I wanted to dial 911. A Virgin Mobile cell phone
works out under $6 a month, much cheaper than a monitoring contract.
Shawn Hirn
EdwardATeller <sorry_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Consumer Reports had an extensive article exactly on this subject a
month or two ago. You might want to check out the review online or at
your public library.
Kendog
Nick Hull
<1186572757....@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
EdwardATeller <sorry_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then I started thinking about something a little more elaborate. What
> if you had a cell phone attached to the motion detector that could be
> set to dial a number if it were set off? For example, it could dial
> 911 and play a recorded message
For many years before cell phones I used a system that would call
my pager and transmit a code telling me what was happening. It
works very well.
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
George Grapman
and emits a flashing red light. I keep one on my dash board.
Rick
You keep going less cheap and less cheap as you go along here.
There is an X-10 based system that does just this. You can use any kind
of sensors you want - door, window, infra-red. And it can be programmed
to dial up to 4 numbers of your choice and play your own recorded
message until someone at one of those numbers answers the phone. Press
any key on your phone and the siren stops so you can listen to what is
going on inside the home through a built in microphone on the base unit.
The system runs about $170.00 including a basic set of sensors.
Just do a search on "X-10 alarm system" and you should find them.
Whatever you do, DO NOT program any system to dial 911. They get really
p*ssed off about automated systems calling in false alarms. Some Cities
charge you for annoyance calls from these systems.
Rick
Don K
news:1186572757....@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
I used to have a Radio Shack pendant dialer that would dial whatever
succession of phone numbers you wanted, play a message, and open
up a live microphone link inside the house to the phone line.
IIRC, it cost about $70 ten years ago. Being intended for the elderly,
it was activated by a pendant worn around the neck. It could easily
be adapted to do what you're thinking of doing. Mine worked fine.
The good part about this solution is that there are no additional
monthly charges, assuming you already have a phone.
google this: radio shack pendant alarm dialer
Don
Rod Speed
I think those systems that are designed for the elderly should also have
some mechanism to detect movement and alarm if there is no movement
for a specified time between particular nominated times, so that if the
individual does die or is unconscious, the system will alarm then too.
Obviously the time between detected movements is different at
night and day and in the bedroom and the rest of the house etc.
hchi...@hotmail.com
<sorry_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'd like to have a simple alarm. It could be as basic as a motion
>detector that sets off a loud siren. I think that would scare off the
>majority of intruders. We come in through the garage, so I would
>just throw the circuit breaker to turn it off. If anyone knows a
>product like this, I'd love to hear about it.
Go to a bookstore, pick up one of the "Chicken Dance" birthday cards.
Tie the little tab to the window, glue the card on the frame.
Burglar opens window. Da da dadda da da dat da da dadda da da dat and
so forth. Burglar either runs away screaming or starts to dance.
Robert L Bass
> some mechanism to detect movement and alarm if there is no movement
> for a specified time between particular nominated times, so that if the
> individual does die or is unconscious, the system will alarm then too.
>
> Obviously the time between detected movements is different at
> night and day and in the bedroom and the rest of the house etc.
The ELK-M1G home automation system can do all that.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
AZ Woody
>> I think those systems that are designed for the elderly should also have
>> some mechanism to detect movement and alarm if there is no movement
>> for a specified time between particular nominated times, so that if the
>> individual does die or is unconscious, the system will alarm then too.
>>
>> Obviously the time between detected movements is different at
>> night and day and in the bedroom and the rest of the house etc.
>
> The ELK-M1G home automation system can do all that.
>
The last place my Dad lived (independent/assisted living) had a switch
he had to hit each day. It was a pull chain thing on the wall in the
bedroom.
If "on the cheap" is the whole theme of this thread, I can imagine a
simple timer circuit (a one shot with a duration of say 30-36 hours).
It's "reset" by the person each day (like my dad and the pull chain),
but if the timer goes off, the alarm is triggered. There probably needs
to be a simple disable, in the event that the person will be gone for a
couple days.
Robert L Bass
> hours). It's "reset" by the person each day (like my dad and the pull chain), but if the timer goes off, the alarm is triggered.
> There probably needs to be a simple disable, in the event that the person will be gone for a couple days.
Altronix makes a Tempo2 (replaces the TT1) 2-stage timer.
It could be rigged to trigger a voice/pager dialer such as
Paravox 710. If the timer gets no signal for 24 hours (or
whatever duration seems appropriate) the dialer starts calling
4 different numbers, repeating until someone responds.
Rod Speed
> Robert L Bass wrote:
>>> I think those systems that are designed for the elderly should also
>>> have some mechanism to detect movement and alarm if there is no
>>> movement for a specified time between particular nominated times, so that if
>>> the individual does die or is unconscious, the system will alarm
>>> then too. Obviously the time between detected movements is different at
>>> night and day and in the bedroom and the rest of the house etc.
>>
>> The ELK-M1G home automation system can do all that.
> The last place my Dad lived (independent/assisted living) had a switch he had to hit each day. It
> was a pull chain thing on the wall in the bedroom.
That isnt going to alarm as quickly, and suffers from
the problem that its easy to forget to pull the chain.
Even a warning that the chain hasnt been pulled isnt going to alarm as quickly.
> If "on the cheap" is the whole theme of this thread, I can imagine a
> simple timer circuit (a one shot with a duration of say 30-36 hours).
> It's "reset" by the person each day (like my dad and the pull chain),
> but if the timer goes off, the alarm is triggered. There probably
> needs to be a simple disable, in the event that the person will be
> gone for a couple days.
And it needs a pre alarm warning that the alarm is about to go off too.
AZ Woody
Thing is, a "daily status" is probably good for most folks that are
still independent. If not, maybe they shouldn't be independent!
The think I know from my dad, and other people in that age group, is
that it's got to be really simple. Pre-warning buzzers and flashing
lights will just get them PO'd. Let's say "grandpa" forgot to "push the
button".. Worst case, is the kids get a call, and he gets a phone call.
Thing is, with a simple timer, it doesn't need to be a "pull chain",
but could be a trigger from a motion sensor in the bathroom. If they
don't take a pee in 6-24 hours, there's a problem!
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> AZ Woody <reply@here> wrote
>>> Robert L Bass wrote
>>>>> I think those systems that are designed for the elderly should also have some mechanism to
>>>>> detect movement and alarm if there is no
>>>>> movement for a specified time between particular nominated times,
>>>>> so that if the individual does die or is unconscious, the system will alarm then too.
>>>>> Obviously the time between detected movements is different at night and day and in the bedroom
>>>>> and the rest of the house etc.
>>>> The ELK-M1G home automation system can do all that.
>>> The last place my Dad lived (independent/assisted living) had a switch he had to hit each day.
>>> It was a pull chain thing on the wall in the bedroom.
>> That isnt going to alarm as quickly, and suffers from
>> the problem that its easy to forget to pull the chain.
>> Even a warning that the chain hasnt been pulled isnt going to alarm as quickly.
>>> If "on the cheap" is the whole theme of this thread, I can imagine a
>>> simple timer circuit (a one shot with a duration of say 30-36 hours). It's "reset" by the person
>>> each day (like my dad and the pull chain), but if the timer goes off, the alarm is triggered.
>>> There probably
>>> needs to be a simple disable, in the event that the person will be
>>> gone for a couple days.
>> And it needs a pre alarm warning that the alarm is about to go off too.
> Thing is, a "daily status" is probably good for most folks that are
> still independent. If not, maybe they shouldn't be independent!
It makes more sense to integrate all this stuff into the
alarm most choose to have, and do a lot more than just
daily status with everyone, particularly those who choose
to live alone when its so cheap to add to an alarm.
> The think I know from my dad, and other people in that age group, is that it's got to be really
> simple.
I've never been convinced about that, it actually needs to be quite intelligent instead.
> Pre-warning buzzers and flashing lights will just get them PO'd.
Cant agree with that at all. They are likely to get much more pissed
off about the alarm going off and triggering some intervention when
they just forget to pull the chain at the right time of day.
And thats why a more intelligent system that works automatically on
movement is much better than something simple too, you dont even
need to hit the stupid chain daily, or need to pull it when it warns either.
> Let's say "grandpa" forgot to "push the button".. Worst case, is the kids get a call, and he gets
> a phone call.
Much better to pull the chain when it warns than to
have to field that call when its just been forgotten.
> Thing is, with a simple timer, it doesn't need to be a "pull chain", but could be a trigger from a
> motion sensor in the bathroom. If they don't take a pee in 6-24 hours, there's a problem!
Sure, and that is what I proposed originally.
Robert L Bass
>> in that age group, is that it's got to be really simple.
>
> I've never been convinced about that, it actually
> needs to be quite intelligent instead.
I think he means that using it has to be simple. On
that I agree.
>> Pre-warning buzzers and flashing lights will just
>> get them PO'd.
>
> Cant agree with that at all. They are likely to get
> much more pissed off about the alarm going off
> and triggering some intervention when they just
> forget to pull the chain at the right time of day.
IME the gentleman is correct. A buzzer or flashing
light isn't a problem as long as it's loud enough to
be heard but not so loud that it startles. Also, a
phone call to check and make sure he's alright can
be a welcome event to someone who lives alone.
I had elderly customers whose alarms we used to
monitor when I owned an alarm company. Once
in a while we'd get a "fail to test" signal at the
monitoring station and I'd call to check on them.
Elderly people living alone can feel isolated and a
phone call, even from an "agency", can be a nice
thing.
> And thats why a more intelligent system that
> works automatically on movement is much
> better than something simple too, you dont even
> need to hit the stupid chain daily, or need to pull
> it when it warns either.
I think there are folks for whom a manual action
such as pushing an "I'm OK" button or pulling a
chain next to the bed when they rise can be best.
For others an automated system may be more
appropriate. We shouldn't assume that one
solution is best for all clients.
>> Let's say "grandpa" forgot to "push the button"..
>> Worst case, is the kids get a call, and he gets a phone call.
>
> Much better to pull the chain when it warns than to
> have to field that call when its just been forgotten.
Not necessarily. During the call he might say, "Yes,
I'm here but I'm feeling ill." The central station op
could then send help or notify a family member.
>> Thing is, with a simple timer, it doesn't need to
>> be a "pull chain", but could be a trigger from a motion sensor in the bathroom. If they don't take
>> a pee in 6-24 hours, there's a problem!
>
> Sure, and that is what I proposed originally.
You can design an elder care system to check for
motion, respond to pendant panic transmitters, etc.
Sensors can be attached to the medicine cabinet
refrigerator door, etc., to make sure the client is up
and about, eating regularly and taking his meds on
schedule.
There's even a sensor you can place on the toilet
seat cover to sense when it's opened or closed.
The detector, originally intended to sense glass
breakage, is very appropriately named a "Wiz". :)
The problem is that the OP (as another poster
reminded me earlier) asked for an inexpensive
system.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> The thing I know from my dad, and other people
>>> in that age group, is that it's got to be really simple.
>> I've never been convinced about that, it actually needs to be quite intelligent instead.
> I think he means that using it has to be simple.
That isnt clear at all, particularly with his claim
about it not being desirable to have a pre alarm
warning but to wear the false alarms instead.
And while the chain system is simple, its really too
primitive. A completely automatic system based on
movement detection and a panic button that the
individual carrys at all times is much more useful.
> On that I agree.
>>> Pre-warning buzzers and flashing lights will just
>>> get them PO'd.
>> Cant agree with that at all. They are likely to get
>> much more pissed off about the alarm going off
>> and triggering some intervention when they just
>> forget to pull the chain at the right time of day.
> IME the gentleman is correct. A buzzer or flashing
> light isn't a problem as long as it's loud enough to
> be heard but not so loud that it startles. Also, a
> phone call to check and make sure he's alright can
> be a welcome event to someone who lives alone.
Then it makes no sense to have a system which
requires the individual to pull the chain once a day.
> I had elderly customers whose alarms we used to
> monitor when I owned an alarm company. Once
> in a while we'd get a "fail to test" signal at the
> monitoring station and I'd call to check on them.
> Elderly people living alone can feel isolated and a
> phone call, even from an "agency", can be a nice thing.
Sure, but there is no point in the daily chain pull for those.
>> And thats why a more intelligent system that
>> works automatically on movement is much
>> better than something simple too, you dont even need to hit the stupid chain daily, or need to
>> pull it when it warns either.
> I think there are folks for whom a manual action
> such as pushing an "I'm OK" button or pulling a
> chain next to the bed when they rise can be best.
> For others an automated system may be more
> appropriate. We shouldn't assume that one
> solution is best for all clients.
Sure, but thats just as true of his keep it simple claim too.
>>> Let's say "grandpa" forgot to "push the button"..
>>> Worst case, is the kids get a call, and he gets a phone call.
>> Much better to pull the chain when it warns than to
>> have to field that call when its just been forgotten.
> Not necessarily. During the call he might say, "Yes,
> I'm here but I'm feeling ill." The central station op
> could then send help or notify a family member.
Using that line, there is no point in the chain system at all.
They'd be better with a daily phone call instead.
>>> Thing is, with a simple timer, it doesn't need to be a "pull chain", but could be a trigger from
>>> a motion sensor in the bathroom. If they don't take a pee in 6-24 hours, there's a problem!
>> Sure, and that is what I proposed originally.
> You can design an elder care system to check for
> motion, respond to pendant panic transmitters, etc.
Its not necessarily just 'elder care' either, it makes a lot
of sense to have some mechanism like this for all those
who live alone, integrated into the alarm system.
> Sensors can be attached to the medicine cabinet
> refrigerator door, etc., to make sure the client is up and about, eating regularly and taking his
> meds on schedule.
Gets messy tho deciding when to alarm food consumption wise.
> There's even a sensor you can place on the toilet
> seat cover to sense when it's opened or closed.
> The detector, originally intended to sense glass
> breakage, is very appropriately named a "Wiz". :)
> The problem is that the OP (as another poster reminded me earlier) asked for an inexpensive
> system.
It doesnt necessarily add much at all to the cost of a decent
alarm system. Its essentially extra logic rather than extra
components with most stuff except the carried panic button.
And that is pretty essential to get assistance as quickly as
possible after a fall or just not being able to get out of bed
or the chair etc.
The main problem is that we could never get our geriatric to wear it.
He appeared to decide that it was too much of an admission of how
geriatric he had become, although he did get a cellphone on his own
initiative which he carried when out on his walks for exercise. I'd love
to why one was acceptable and the other wasnt, but it can be quite
hard to work that stuff out once they are getting rather nutty. Some
of them can be quite remarkably nutty.
SMS
There are already auto-dialers available, and you could use one of those
converters to use a regular phone on a cell line.
There are much cheaper options than Virgin Mobile as well.
That said, monitoring contracts don't have to cost $20-30/month. See
"http://www.alarmrelay.com/" There may be others that are even cheaper.
rabbid
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46bb7d64$0$27237$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> EdwardATeller wrote:
>
> That said, monitoring contracts don't have to cost $20-30/month. See
> "http://www.alarmrelay.com/" There may be others that are even cheaper.
this bunch has online support for diy. look out rlb. frank prob wont be
able to shut them down like he did u.
Frank Olson
> this bunch has online support for diy. look out rlb. frank prob wont be
> able to shut them down like he did u.
>
>
I was not responsible for Robert having to "shut down" his monitoring
business. That belongs to the great State of Florida. I notice that
"Alarm Relay" provides no information about licensing (in some states
the central station as well as the staff are required to have
licensing). There's more information here:
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/licensing.htm
Besides the OP was looking for a cheap *local* solution. He's obviously
not interested in a security system if he's looking for something he can
shut off with a circuit breaker (and that obviously won't work in the
absence of power).
EdwardATeller
OP here. That's pretty funny. Also, thanks to everyone else who took
the time to reply. Some very helpful suggestions.
EdwardATeller
You could have something triggered by a toilet flush, speaking of
pulling a chain.
Or maybe something that senses any kind of water flow through the
water meter.
Mikey
Never program 911 in to anything, knucklehead. It is intended to
establish a link between warm bodies, not machines.
Enhanced 911 will give them an address where to send the fine.
I hope your mickey-mouse set-up tries to call you with a smoke when
you're in a movie theatre.
Robert L Bass
>> detector that sets off a loud siren. I think that would scare off
>> the
>> majority of intruders. We come in through the garage, so I would
>> just throw the circuit breaker to turn it off. If anyone knows a
>> product like this, I'd love to hear about it.
>>
>> Then I started thinking about something a little more elaborate.
>> What
>> if you had a cell phone attached to the motion detector that could
>> be
>> set to dial a number if it were set off? For example, it could
>> dial
>> 911 and play a recorded message saying the house address and there
>> was
>> a burglary in process. Or it could dial my cell phone, and then I
>> could decide if I wanted to dial 911. A Virgin Mobile cell phone
>> works out under $6 a month, much cheaper than a monitoring
>> contract.
There are a number of wireless systems on the market that can do much
of what you want. Some integrate cellular technology for reporting.
Others (most) rely on wired phone lines. There are some isues you
may want to consider though. If the system could be turned off by
throwing a breaker it would be disabled during power outages. In
some parts of the country power outages are a regular nuisance (not
unlike someone else who posted to this thread). To overcome the
problem alarm systems incorporate a backup battery. The system
trickle charges the battery until it's needed.
One simple to install configuration you mght find useful incorporates
a wireless sensor or sensors, a control panel (the system's brain)
and wireless keyfobs to arm, disarm or send a panic signal. These
are sometimes used in himes where new wiring might be complicated or
cost prohibitive.
In addition to wireless systems, many existing homes can still be
fitted with hard-wired alarms, even by homeowners. Most structures
can be retrofit with a bit of patience and a modicum of tool skills
so don't ignore that possibility entirely. In fact, the majority of
alarms and home automation systems bought from our online store by
homeowners wanting a do-it-yourself solution are wired. If the home
has an unfinished basement or attic, most if not all of the sensors
can be hard-wired without damaging the finish at all. There are
simple "tricks of the trade" in getting a wire from point A to B. I
routinely teach homeowners this stuff and have posted numerous
articles on the subject to this and other newsgroups. Wiring an
existing home isn't for everyone, of course. It's more a matter of
choice -- do I want to commit a weekend or two to the process vs
installing a quicker but more expensive wireless system?
As you may realise, it is illegal to program an alarm to auto-dial
911. There is actually a federal statute though I doubt anyone has
ever been prosecuted for it. The local police would probably issue
fines. At the very least they would order you to stop sending
signals to 911. Instead, you can have a system dial your cell phone
and/or several friends or neighbors. The drawback is you, your
friends and your neighbors might not be able to respond effectively.
If you are out of town or asleep you might not even receive the call.
For many people the best solution is still to use a central
monitoring service. Costs vary from around $8 a month to upwards of
$40 a month for essentially the same service so shop around if you
ever decide to go that route. Beware of automatically renewing,
multi-year contracts. You can easily get locked into these deals and
then find it's almost impossible to change providers if the service
quality stinks. There are a few companies like 911Alarm that offer
UL listed monitoring on the cheap without long-term contracts. Like
DIY providers (yours truly included) companies like 911Alarm compete
with traditional alarm companies.
rabbid
"RoberBass" <Robe...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:XHVAi.100$Fd5.9@trnddc02...
> For many people the best solution is still to use a central monitoring
> service. Costs vary from around $8 a month to upwards of $40 a month for
> essentially the same service so shop around if you ever decide to go that
> route. Beware of automatically renewing, multi-year contracts. You can
> easily get locked into these deals and then find it's almost impossible to
> change providers if the service quality stinks. There are a few companies
> like 911Alarm that offer UL listed monitoring on the cheap without
> long-term contracts. Like DIY providers (yours truly included) companies
> like 911Alarm compete with traditional alarm companies.
baloney, you can't compete with real alarm companies because you can't
monitor alarm systems since Frank got you shut down in FL for monitoring
without a license. Only legally licenced companies can monitor. you are
neither legal or licensed. you're not legal because you're a felon and your
not licenced because you can't get a license because you're not qualified
and you're a felon.