Gas saving (automobile)
Just A User
about 1 year ago. It started out great on gas. I have been keeping a gas
log since the first day I owned it. It started out great, 40mpg. But it
has been a downhill slide since then. On the most recent tank top up it
only got 23.3 mpg. I only drive this car about 30 to 50 miles a week.
Most of the trips are to and from work (30 miles a week) so the trips
are right around 3 miles. I drive very conservatively and use the a/c as
little as possible. Now I know that cold engines use much more fuel than
warm engines. I have considered buying a engine pre-heater. Has anyone
ever used one? How about making it solar powered for sunny days? I don't
want to spend a bundle on saving fuel, but to go from 40 to 23 is a
significant reduction. Thanks for any advise.
Ken
George
out why the fuel economy dropped so radically.
James
That large a drop signifies an issue with the engine that you need to
address. It could just be in need of a tune up - new plugs etc. It
could be something more serious.
But I can guarentee you one thing, it won't go away on its own. Take
your car into a mechanic.
James
Just A User
Just A User
Joe
Check your air filter... If they didn't change it, the intake is being
choked and can easily cause this problem.
--
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm
Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
Just A User
>> I had the car tuned about 1000 miles ago
>
> Check your air filter... If they didn't change it, the intake is being
> choked and can easily cause this problem.
I worked as a mechanic years ago, and did the tune up myself, the air
filter was changed
Joe
How many miles on the car? What make and model?
Any chance the brake calipers are sticking and creating lots of friction?
Not likely... But ya never know.
Ward Abbott
>That large a drop signifies an issue with the engine that you need to
>address. It could just be in need of a tune up - new plugs etc.
Don't forget to check your tire pressure.
clams casino
Doubt that low tire pressure with cause a 50% drop in mileage- sounds
more like an antipollution device gone bad.
James
wrote:
> Ward Abbott wrote:
> >On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:09:27 -0700, James <j...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >>That large a drop signifies an issue with the engine that you need to
> >>address. It could just be in need of a tune up - new plugs etc.
>
> >Don't forget to check your tire pressure.
>
> Doubt that low tire pressure with cause a 50% drop in mileage- sounds
> more like an antipollution device gone bad.
Agreed - Tire pressure typically is 10 % or so.
Could be a bad airflow sensor, problem injectors any number of things.
James
barbie gee
have you checked the tire pressure? Inflate the tires higher than lower,
and make sure they are always inflated properly. this makes an incredible
difference in MPG.
are you in an area where you have seasonally reformulated gasoline? can
you attribute the change to a season?
new route you are taking that you didn't take when you first got the car?
I changed my route and increased my MPG significantly, due to less stop
and go.
are you lugging around 400 lbs. of crap in the trunk?
Ken Jones
So please provide the following details.
Make?
Model?
Motor size?
Year?
Any trouble lights on? Did you have the codes pulled. Free at Autozone!
With this info we can go far in answering your questions?
If I had to guess I think you have some kind of Honda and you may
need a new 02 sensor.
TKM
"clams casino" <PeterG...@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:IEOii.11122$%K1....@newsfe21.lga...
We were astonished that our Prius dropped 5-10 mpg because of 3-4 lb.
lower-than-recommended tire pressure. Just to be sure, I tried different
tire pressures over the same route in similar weather. Same thing happened.
TKM
Just A User
>
> have you checked the tire pressure? Inflate the tires higher than
> lower, and make sure they are always inflated properly. this makes an
> incredible difference in MPG.
>
> are you in an area where you have seasonally reformulated gasoline? can
> you attribute the change to a season?
>
> new route you are taking that you didn't take when you first got the car?
> I changed my route and increased my MPG significantly, due to less stop
> and go.
>
> are you lugging around 400 lbs. of crap in the trunk?
>
Tire pressure is correct, going by the door jam sticker 26psi
As far as I know there is no formulation difference for south Florida.
No pretty much the same route.
Carrying the same stuff( very little) that came with the car.
Logan Shaw
> James wrote:
>> On Jul 4, 10:00 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>> log since the first day I owned it. It started out great, 40mpg. But it
>>> has been a downhill slide since then. On the most recent tank top up it
>>> only got 23.3 mpg.
>> That large a drop signifies an issue with the engine that you need to
>> address. It could just be in need of a tune up - new plugs etc. It
>> could be something more serious.
>>
>> But I can guarentee you one thing, it won't go away on its own. Take
>> your car into a mechanic.
> I had the car tuned about 1000 miles ago
Getting a tune up doesn't buy you some kind of immunity to mechnical
problems for the next 10,000 miles or something. Something could
happen 5 minutes after you get a tune up.
Are you sure the trips you are making now (at 23.3 miles/gal) are the
same type of trips you were making when you got 40 miles/gal? I
would be a little surprised to see a car that can get 40 miles/gal on
short 3-mile trips, even if they are all highway/freeway.
Whatever it is, it's almost certain it will pay to get it fixed given
the price of gas these days.
- Logan
Just A User
>>>> I had the car tuned about 1000 miles ago
>>> Check your air filter... If they didn't change it, the intake is being
>>> choked and can easily cause this problem.
>> I worked as a mechanic years ago, and did the tune up myself, the air
>> filter was changed
>
> How many miles on the car? What make and model?
>
> Any chance the brake calipers are sticking and creating lots of friction?
> Not likely... But ya never know.
car has 54,000 miles on it (yes that is correct) 1991 Geo Metro
No brakes seem fine. visual inspection shows no sign of problems.
Just A User
They are properly inflated, going by door jam sticker
Just A User
> Getting a tune up doesn't buy you some kind of immunity to mechnical
> problems for the next 10,000 miles or something. Something could
> happen 5 minutes after you get a tune up.
>
> Are you sure the trips you are making now (at 23.3 miles/gal) are the
> same type of trips you were making when you got 40 miles/gal? I
> would be a little surprised to see a car that can get 40 miles/gal on
> short 3-mile trips, even if they are all highway/freeway.
>
> Whatever it is, it's almost certain it will pay to get it fixed given
> the price of gas these days.
>
> - Logan
Yes the trips are the same as they were when I was getting 40 mpg.
hal...@aol.com
now how can a bad fuel pump cause poor mileage you ask?
fuel pumps output pressure dropped so computer enriched the fuel
mixture to compensate, bad fuel economy occured.
better to take vehicle to dealer, they put it online with a computer
in detroit or wherever.
cars have gotten way too complex
Rod Speed
Rod Speed
barbie gee
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Just A User wrote:
and you haven't put on a few 100 lbs, right? :-)
barbie gee
Yup. Prius is very sensitive to pressure changes, or maybe we're just
more in tune with watching the MPG very closely.
I've got mine at 40 front, 38 rear, although I've seen recommendations for
42/40.
barbie gee
add another 2 lbs psi and see what happens.
Zilbandy
<k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>They are properly inflated, going by door jam sticker
Look on the side of the tire for its maximum inflation pressure. You
could start there and work down a couple of pounds every fill up. See
what gives you a reasonable MPG and a reasonably decent ride. Once you
find the pressure you want, check the tire wear every couple of months
and see if they are wearing evenly or wearing more in the center (over
inflated) or wearing more on the edges (under inflated). Then you can
weigh the cost of gas, MPG, and potential tire cost and see where the
best is for you.
--
Zilbandy
Don Klipstein
I expect that since braking is less of a loss in a Prius, tire pressure
makes more of a difference in city mileage of a Prius than of more
conventional cars.
Since by some reports Prius has city MPG higher than highway, I suspect
tire pressure makes even more percentage difference in Prius city MPG than
in highway MPG (Prius or otherwise). With other cars, I expect tire
pressure's impact on city MPG to be even on a percentage basis less than
highway MPG.
Prius is a car with an especially aerodynamic shape, and has slightly
above-average highway MPG (among economy cars) probably for that reason.
Because of this, I expect that tire pressure even on a percentage basis
has a slightly greater effect on MPG in a Prius than in non-hybrid cars.
If underinflated tires cause a Prius to lose 3-4 MPG, then similar tire
underflation in non-hybrid cars may cause a loss of more like 2-3 MPG
highway 1-2 MPG city. However, as expensive as gasoline is now, this is
significant. Extra gallons of gas burned per 1,000 miles due to tire
underinflation I expect to be about the same in non-hybrid cars as in a
Prius.
One thing to know: Tire pressure is supposed to be measured when the
tires are "cold", not warmed up from recent driving.
Other reasons for proper tire inflation:
1. Tires wear faster if the pressure is wrong. They wear faster overall
if the pressure is too low. They can have wear concentrated towards the
center of the tread if the pressure is too high.
2. Improper tire pressure reduces safety of the tire. Underinflated
tires can "squirm" in a turn, causing the vehicle to effectively skid.
Low tire pressure can also increase fatigue stress in the sidewalls,
increasing risk of sidewall failure (usually towards the bead).
This was a major issue with those Ford Explorers where vehicle handling
was optimized when tire pressure was unusually low for the tire size and
vehicle weight. Those Ford Explorers had below-average tolerance of tire
pressure being lower than specified for the vehicle.
3. If your vehicle carries especially heavy loads, then you need to push
the tire pressure higher to get the tires to perform "as usual". Do not
exceed the pressure specified on the tire, and beware that with unusually
heavy loads vehicle handling can be subpar no matter what the tire
pressure is. Also do not have tires carry more weight than they are rated
for. Keep in mind that tires can only carry full weight weighting at full
rated pressure marked on the tire.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
Underinflated tires can also wear more badly overall, not just worse at
the edges.
Underinflated tires can "effectively skid" in higher-G-force turns by
"squirming". Even if you approach turns at lower speed, you can still run
into high lateral acceleration in evasive maneuvers.
Also, at fillup time, the tires may have beaan heated up by driving to
the gas station. Tire pressure is supposed to be measured with "cold
tires".
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Ward Abbott
<barbi...@NOSESPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> They are properly inflated, going by door jam sticker
>>
What did the TIRE MANUFACTURER recommend? I have never accepted the
tires that were installed on any vehicle. They were replaced with
Michelin.
Just A User
idles smooth as a baby.
Just A User
Just A User
lost a bit of weight since then.
Zilbandy
Klipstein) wrote:
> Also, at fillup time, the tires may have beaan heated up by driving to
>the gas station. Tire pressure is supposed to be measured with "cold
>tires".
Even if they are hot, taking a couple pounds out will also reduce the
cold pressure. As long as all the tires are done at close to the same
time, the results should be fairly uniform between all the tires. When
I was active in four wheeling, I would 'air down' my tires for off
road use. I drove a big 4x4 Suburban, and on the road, I ran typically
35 pounds for on road use. Depending on the off road terrain, I would
reduce pressure to around 10 pounds. Needless to say, before getting
back on the highway, we'd stop and air up. I carried a portable air
tank that would add about 10 pounds to each tire and carried a
portable 12 v. air compressor if I needed more. Several of our group
had belt driven air compressors mounted under the hood. Just like
taking your service station with you. :) If you're interested in what
my tires looked like, there's a link to my 'Dead Suburban's Home Page
in my signature. :)
--
Zilbandy <z...@zilbandyREMOVETHIS.com> Tucson, Arizona USA
Dead Suburban's Home Page: http://zilbandy.com/suburb/
PGP Public Key: http://zilbandy.com/pgpkey.htm
~~~~ Alternate email: zilb...@comcastREMOVETHIS.net ~~~~
Rod Speed
It isnt hard to get that result. Just installing the wrong air filter can do that.
Rod Speed
You'd get that if you used the wrong air filter or managed to disconnect the O2 detector.
clams casino
Meaningless. When the O2 sensor went on my Chrysler, about the only
tell tell sign was a check-engine light and a 50% drop in mileage as I
quickly went through a tank of gas on a trip that should have taken only
a half tank. Idle was fine, start was fine, etc. It just burned a lot
more gas per mile.
Don Klipstein
The door jam sticker is supposed to work for all tires by all tire
manufacturers as long as the tires are of the original/specified size.
The door jam sticker pressure should not exceed the tire-stamped
pressure for any tire you should use.
When the door jam and on-tire numbers are different, you are supposed to
get a different tire if the tire has a lower number and to go by the door
jam when the tire has a higher number.
When the door jam pressure is significantly lower than what the tire
says is its maximum (as in the case of the famous Explorers), I would do
two things:
1) Be extra vigilant against tire pressure getting low, and to measure it
when the tires are "cold".
2) Go for an in-between pressure, probably a couple PSI above the door
jam number, while being aware that this could adversely affect vehicle
handling. I would stay closer to the door jam number than the number on
the tire. I expect vehicle handling to not degrade much if the tires have
cold" pressure a couple PSI higher than what is specified on the door jam
unless the vehicle design is faulty.
(My warranty: Those harmed or who harmed others and any
such-others-harmed by anyone doing what I said I would do get refunded
what they paid me to post this, and I specifically disclaim anything
else.)
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
>On 4 Jul 2007 21:42 UTC, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> Also, at fillup time, the tires may have beaan heated up by driving to
>>the gas station. Tire pressure is supposed to be measured with "cold
>>tires".
>
>Even if they are hot, taking a couple pounds out will also reduce the
>cold pressure. As long as all the tires are done at close to the same
>time, the results should be fairly uniform between all the tires.
There are vehicle handling aspects that change from that, no matter how
evenly you have your tires underinflated.
> When I was active in four wheeling, I would 'air down' my tires for off
>road use. I drove a big 4x4 Suburban, and on the road, I ran typically
>35 pounds for on road use. Depending on the off road terrain, I would
>reduce pressure to around 10 pounds. Needless to say, before getting
>back on the highway, we'd stop and air up. I carried a portable air
>tank that would add about 10 pounds to each tire and carried a
>portable 12 v. air compressor if I needed more. Several of our group
>had belt driven air compressors mounted under the hood. Just like
>taking your service station with you. :) If you're interested in what
>my tires looked like, there's a link to my 'Dead Suburban's Home Page
>in my signature. :)
I took about a minute... Saw too much unrelated to tire pressure, and
plenty related to what I would call "more adventurous use".
I would expect driving on rough terrain at slow speeds to fare better
with lower tire pressure than is best for use on actual civilized roads at
typical paved road speeds near or over 30 MPH.
I expect 35 PSI or even lower 30's to be reasonable for on-road use on
most SUVs and most cars. As best as I remember, the famous Explorers were
supposed to use 26 PSI (measured cold) for on-road use.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
Could have caused some serious extra load to the catalytic converter. I
suspect more likely recoverable if things get fixed before any other
symptoms develop.
This can cause catalytic converter problems, and catalytic converters
are supposed to not fail during the life of a car unless something kills
them - typically severely rich combustion or oil in the exhaust.
They also work less well if the heat shields around many of them are
missing.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
barbie gee
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, Don Klipstein wrote:
> Since by some reports Prius has city MPG higher than highway, I suspect
> tire pressure makes even more percentage difference in Prius city MPG than
> in highway MPG (Prius or otherwise). With other cars, I expect tire
> pressure's impact on city MPG to be even on a percentage basis less than
> highway MPG.
Highway MPG is better than city mpg in my experience, since all my city
driving is very short hops (<10 miles) with a lot of stop and go.
> Prius is a car with an especially aerodynamic shape, and has slightly
> above-average highway MPG (among economy cars) probably for that reason.
> Because of this, I expect that tire pressure even on a percentage basis
> has a slightly greater effect on MPG in a Prius than in non-hybrid cars.
I think > 50 MPG highway could be considered more than just "slightly
above-average highway MPG".
> If underinflated tires cause a Prius to lose 3-4 MPG, then similar tire
> underflation in non-hybrid cars may cause a loss of more like 2-3 MPG
> highway 1-2 MPG city. However, as expensive as gasoline is now, this is
> significant. Extra gallons of gas burned per 1,000 miles due to tire
> underinflation I expect to be about the same in non-hybrid cars as in a
> Prius.
I'm talking a change in MPG of more like 6-10 with underinflated tires w/
my Prius, especially in my kind of city driving.
Gene S. Berkowitz
yours-spammer.net says...
Must be the trade winds then. If the mileage is poor, by definition,
the car is NOT running "great". It's limping.
Likely scenario: you screwed up the tuneup by missing something, such as
PCV valve or fuel filter.
Stop saying "I had the car tuned up", because YOU performed the tuneup.
Say "I tuned up the car", because that's the first step in admitting
that you just MIGHT have made some error.
Did you change the muffler with an aftermarket replacement, by any
chance?
You could have a bad or disconnected sensor that is causing the engine
to run rich, resulting in a plugged catalytic converter. In a 3-mile
drive, it probably isn't even reaching operating temperature.
Try taking it out on the highway for 40-50 miles, at 60 mph. Burn the
gunk out of it.
--Gene
Don Klipstein
>
If tire underinflation reduces 50 MPG to 44, then similar tire
underflation that degrades 25 MPG only does so only to 23.5 MPG. This is
with assuming same extra quantity of gasoline burned per mile due to tire
inflation.
As expensive as gasoline is and as cheap as air is even at gas stations
that charge for air (more frugal still get your own air pump), I expect
decent frugality of being vigilant against your tires running low even if
your non-Prius car has MPG improved only by 1 or so!
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
<RJ>
wrote:
>Okay frugal car people, here is the story. I bought a very frugal auto
>about 1 year ago. It started out great on gas. I have been keeping a gas
>log since the first day I owned it. It started out great, 40mpg. But it
>has been a downhill slide since then. On the most recent tank top up it
>only got 23.3 mpg. I only drive this car about 30 to 50 miles a week.
>
>Ken
Two possibilities;
1.. Kid in the neighborhood with a car ( and a siphon hose )
2.. A recent trip to a oil-change shop......
After "checking" my air filter, pcv valve, etc.
they screwed up the housing, left a wire disconnected,
and left the pcv valve disconnected too.
It took a trip to my dealer to get everything straightened out.
BTW;
From now on, it's "Change the oil and filter ONLY"
DON'T touch anything else, add anything, sweep or clean anything.
<rj>
Just A User
Here is my gas log.
> 9/23/06 7.3 51582
> 10/21/06 7.1 51930 49.01
> 11/4/06 3.7 52042 30.27
> 11/16/06 8.1 52297 31.48
> 11/21/06 8.1 52566 33.20
> 1/2/07 7.9 52778 26.83 tune up & oil change
> 1/11/07 2.7 52851 27.03
> 1/27/07 3.1 52933 26.45
> 2/13/07 4.4 53058 28.40
> 3/3/07 4.5 53174 25.77 inflated tires to 50psi
> 3/26/07 4.9 53311 27.95 lowered tire pressure to 26psi
> 4/18/07 4.6 53438 27.60
> 5/14/07 5.0 53574 27.2 new r/r tire
> 6/10/07 5.0 53705 26.2
> 7/3/07 5.2 53829 23.8 added fuel inj cleaner
Ken
Just A User
normal stuff. I didn't do any sensors, but did plugs, wires, dist cap,
rotor, air and fuel filters, pcv valve, checked ign timing, changed oil
and filter.
Ken
Just A User
Just A User
something to check. I am thinking that my short trips aren't warming
everything up and the car might benefit from a run on the highway.
Ken
James
>
> - Show quoted text -
O2 sensors aremore than capable of failing without any help.
James
Vic Smith
<k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
If you toss the wacky first and last numbers nothing is there that
can't be explained away by driving habits/circumstance, so check your
methods for measuring.
The '91 Metro should have OBDI diagnostics, and if so
get a code reader or short the pins to get the flashing codes.
If your check engine light isn't working you'll have to fix that
first. Google for ODBI code to get the procedure and code
definitions.
If you get no codes, you can still test the O2 sensor with an multi
tester, and GM sensors are cheap, if that's a GM
Normally a rich condition means the O2 sensor sends a signal to the
ECU, which will store the code and set the check engine light on, but
maybe something's not working normally.
If you are consuming oil because of ring/cylinder wear (blow-by), or
losing compression via leaking head gasket your mileage will suffer,
though these problems are easily detected by the lost oil or the
noise/coolant contamination of the gasket leak.
Same with a gas leak, by smell, fire or explosion. I don't know what
sensors/diagnostics are used on that car, but that's a start.
You might ping Tock here, as he had a Metro.
Good luck.
--Vic
Vic Smith
Forgot. If it's a stick, a slipping clutch will decease mileage.
--Vic
Just A User
unimportant, the second is that the tank took, the third is the odometer
mileage, the fourth is the miles per gallon since the last top up, and
the last is just a note / comment regarding the vehicle or changes etc.
etc. etc.
I already pulled the codes, none found.
The car doesn't consume any oil, or I should say that over the time /
mileage since the oil change it hasn't consumed any.
Ken
Vic Smith
What I meant is first number is 49.01 and last is 23.8.
All the other numbers are close enough to be caused by driving
habits/conditions. That means goosing it a bit harder a few times,
running the A/C a bit longer, etc. Additionally, your consumption
figures are so low that the decimals may be throwing all off because
of incorrect pump meters exacerbating the error of such small
readings.
You may have no problem at all.
I suggest you just top off, write down the initial odo reading, add an
even gallon amount when you fill up, jot that down, then after 1000
miles top, do your math and see what you get. Repeat. See what you
get. That's what you got.
Claimed mileage figures are often exaggerated. Your measurements
should tell you the truth.
Take if FWIW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_Metro
"As the 3-cylinder engines aged however, they began to become less
stable and subject to vibration as well as minor deficiencies in the
fuel injection system that led to decreased fuel economy. A flaw
exists in Metro 3-cylinder engines equipped with an EGR valve - if the
valve fails or the EGR passages become blocked, the center combustion
chamber can get too hot, and over time, lose compression due to
exhaust valve failure."
--Vic
E Z Peaces
I don't see a slide. Your first figure, 49, is quite high. I wonder if
you misread 51682 for 51582. That would mean 35 mpg.
Then it's about 32 mpg for a month in which you averaged 21 miles a day.
Then from November 21 until June 10 you averaged about 27 mpg and drove
less than 6 miles a day. If you aren't driving far, the engine will
spend a higher percentage of operating time below optimum temperature.
Also, on short trips you probably spend a higher percentage of the time
getting up to speed and running the engine just to keep it ready to go.
Gas engines don't idle and coast efficiently. That's where diesels
and hybrids have an advantage.
Your Metro may be fine. For people who really care about mileage, Honda
has been working on a 50cc hybrid scooter.
Rod Speed
Then you should have said that originally.
> Here is my gas log.
>> 9/23/06 7.3 51582
>> 10/21/06 7.1 51930 49.01
>> 11/4/06 3.7 52042 30.27
>> 11/16/06 8.1 52297 31.48
>> 11/21/06 8.1 52566 33.20
>> 1/2/07 7.9 52778 26.83 tune up & oil change
Looks rather like you fucked up there somewhere.
>> 1/11/07 2.7 52851 27.03
>> 1/27/07 3.1 52933 26.45
>> 2/13/07 4.4 53058 28.40
>> 3/3/07 4.5 53174 25.77 inflated tires to 50psi
That makes no sense.
>> 3/26/07 4.9 53311 27.95 lowered tire pressure to 26psi
>> 4/18/07 4.6 53438 27.60
>> 5/14/07 5.0 53574 27.2 new r/r tire
>> 6/10/07 5.0 53705 26.2
>> 7/3/07 5.2 53829 23.8 added fuel inj cleaner
And there too. Every time you touch it, it gets worse.
The rest of the variation is most likely just your driving behaviour
and maybe the gradual deterioration of something like the O2 sensor.
Dennis
<thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Forgot. If it's a stick, a slipping clutch will decease mileage.
Or dragging brakes.
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
BeaF...@msn.com
> Joe wrote:
> >> I had the car tuned about 1000 miles ago
>
> > Check your air filter... If they didn't change it, the intake is being
> > choked and can easily cause this problem.
>
> I worked as a mechanic years ago, and did the tune up myself, the air
> filter was changed
Mechanic? Then why would you be looking for answers here?
Are you using ethonol? The mileage for ethonol is alot less than
regular gas. I read that ethonol gets 20% less miles per gallon than
good 'ol American direct from the Middle East gasoline.
Just A User
I originally asked about an engine pre-heater, something I have no
experience with. No the car runs on plain old unleaded.
Ken
Just A User
> On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:30:54 -0500, Vic Smith
> <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Forgot. If it's a stick, a slipping clutch will decease mileage.
>
> Or dragging brakes.
>
> Dennis (evil)
least lessen it. I took the car on the highway for the first time in 8
months and it seems to be getting better mileage now.
Ken
Joe
> experience with. No the car runs on plain old unleaded.
Can you still get "regular old unleaded" here in the states? I thought
everyone had some sort of ethanol mix by law? ...Maybe because I'm in the
environmentally friendly NY/NJ area. <G>
...Glad your highway trip seems to have partially helped out.
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm
Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
Just A User
attention other than the octane number and price.
Ken
George
>> I originally asked about an engine pre-heater, something I have no
>> experience with. No the car runs on plain old unleaded.
>
> Can you still get "regular old unleaded" here in the states? I thought
> everyone had some sort of ethanol mix by law? ...Maybe because I'm in the
> environmentally friendly NY/NJ area. <G>
>
You can at least in eastern PA if you don't buy Sunoco gas. Since
ethanol is a real problem because it can't be sent through pipelines and
is corrosive etc it has to be trucked in at much higher cost and they
are the only one doing it.
E Z Peaces
I had an old car I drove only a few hundred miles a year. The fuel
economy was below what the EPA estimated. I figured it was because my
trips were so short. Sometimes one cylinder would miss when the engine
wasn't warmed up. I figured a temperature sensor wasn't working right
to tell the computer when to switch over. Warmed up, the power seemed
normal.
One day a cylinder persistently failed to fire. A neighbor told me to
try a can of injector cleaner in the gas tank. That quickly got all
four cylinders firing. I added rest of the can at the prescribed rate
when I bought gas.
When you shut an engine off, a drop of gas can form on an injector
nozzle. The longer it sits, the more that drop can oxidize into
varnish. I suppose it builds up worst in cars that aren't driven far.
The varnish can affect fuel economy by interfering with the spray
pattern. For me it got so bad that a cylinder wouldn't fire.
An occasional can of injector cleaner might improve your fuel economy.
Dennis
wrote:
>I had an old car I drove only a few hundred miles a year. The fuel
>economy was below what the EPA estimated. I figured it was because my
>trips were so short. Sometimes one cylinder would miss when the engine
>wasn't warmed up. I figured a temperature sensor wasn't working right
>to tell the computer when to switch over. Warmed up, the power seemed
>normal.
>
>One day a cylinder persistently failed to fire. A neighbor told me to
>try a can of injector cleaner in the gas tank. That quickly got all
>four cylinders firing. I added rest of the can at the prescribed rate
>when I bought gas.
>
>When you shut an engine off, a drop of gas can form on an injector
>nozzle. The longer it sits, the more that drop can oxidize into
>varnish. I suppose it builds up worst in cars that aren't driven far.
>The varnish can affect fuel economy by interfering with the spray
>pattern. For me it got so bad that a cylinder wouldn't fire.
>
>An occasional can of injector cleaner might improve your fuel economy.
I just returned from a 4000-mile road trip in our trusty old Suburban.
This big old boat usually gets around 11-12 miles per gallon in my
normal (occasional) local driving (including a mix of in-town and
55-60 mph highway driving). Imagine my surprise when I got 16+ mpg
driving it at 65-70 mph, fully loaded, down the interstate! My theory
is that it spent more time in overdrive in the sweet spot of the
engine's torque curve at the higher speeds. I dunno, but I'm not
complaining.
16 years old, 160K miles, and I only had to add 1 quart of oil during
the whole trip. Not bad for climbing the Rockies twice.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
E Z Peaces
1991 2WD 5.7L V8 Automatic?
The EPA used to say 13/17. Now they say 11/16, using higher speeds,
faster acceleration, and more air conditioning.
In 1974 truckers used to claim the 55mph limit hurt fuel economy. I
don't know if it was true for trucks, but for my BMW motorcycle, the new
limit meant much worse fuel economy. The load on the engine was pretty
low at lower speeds, but the engine burned rich at lower cruising
speeds. Maybe the engines have been improved.
Dennis
wrote:
>Dennis wrote:
>> I just returned from a 4000-mile road trip in our trusty old Suburban.
>> This big old boat usually gets around 11-12 miles per gallon in my
>> normal (occasional) local driving (including a mix of in-town and
>> 55-60 mph highway driving). Imagine my surprise when I got 16+ mpg
>> driving it at 65-70 mph, fully loaded, down the interstate! My theory
>> is that it spent more time in overdrive in the sweet spot of the
>> engine's torque curve at the higher speeds. I dunno, but I'm not
>> complaining.
>>
>> 16 years old, 160K miles, and I only had to add 1 quart of oil during
>> the whole trip. Not bad for climbing the Rockies twice.
>>
>http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=8425
>
>1991 2WD 5.7L V8 Automatic?
Yep.
>The EPA used to say 13/17. Now they say 11/16, using higher speeds,
>faster acceleration, and more air conditioning.
Good to know -- makes me more confident that my observation wasn't
just a fluke. Thanks for the link.
>In 1974 truckers used to claim the 55mph limit hurt fuel economy. I
>don't know if it was true for trucks, but for my BMW motorcycle, the new
>limit meant much worse fuel economy. The load on the engine was pretty
>low at lower speeds, but the engine burned rich at lower cruising
>speeds. Maybe the engines have been improved.
There are certainly more variables at work than simple friction and
aerodynamic drag.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin
max
Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's pretty sweet. Interstate miles are the best miles. Details: i'm
guessing you kept your tires carefully inflated... Cruise the whole way?
Clean roof or rack? Still, it had to be painful pulling into those
interstate gas stations. :-)
I'll dig out my stats for a 1960 Biscayne (6-235, three speed man) trip from
Napa to Chicago some time.
ISTR you used to be from around west suburban Chicago -- were you around St.
Chas?
.max
Relatedly, someone i know claims their 1999 (?) Jeep Grand Cherokee, with
every imaginable option and auto trans, gets a solid 20 mpg in stop-n-go
suburban driving. I say bullshit. EPA is 16/21. verdict?
Chief...@hotmail.com
> Okay frugal car people, here is the story. I bought a very frugal auto
> about 1 year ago. It started out great on gas. I have been keeping a gas
> log since the first day I owned it. It started out great, 40mpg. But it
> has been a downhill slide since then. On the most recent tank top up it
> only got 23.3 mpg. I only drive this car about 30 to 50 miles a week.
> Most of the trips are to and from work (30 miles a week) so the trips
> are right around 3 miles. I drive very conservatively and use the a/c as
> little as possible. Now I know that cold engines use much more fuel than
> warm engines. I have considered buying a engine pre-heater. Has anyone
> ever used one? How about making it solar powered for sunny days? I don't
> want to spend a bundle on saving fuel, but to go from 40 to 23 is a
> significant reduction. Thanks for any advise.
>
> Ken
I bought a 2001 Honda Civic EX Coupe in December, 2000. Within a month
highway gas milege was
stable at 40 MPG (38 w/ AC) and, 230000 miles (I commute 110 miles per
day), it is STILL
stable at 40 MPG. Want to cry on my shoulder ?
I live in Florida, where it is flat and warm, so I would not waste any
money on engine heaters or other
frivolous devices which tout improved mileage. If you live in a very
cold climate, I'd recommend an engine heater
and synthetic oil (which maintains a thin viscosity at low temps).
But above all, keep your tires properly inflated, your intake air
filter clean, your oil, oil filter, and plugs changed per
recommended maintenance schedule, keep excess weight out of the car,
use the cruise control on the highway,
keep highway speeds at 65-70, and avoid long idles and jack-rabbit
starts. If you can't do this, NO ammount of money is going
to buy you better gas mileage.
Chief...@hotmail.com
> Joe wrote:
> >>>> I had the car tuned about 1000 miles ago
> >>> Check your air filter... If they didn't change it, the intake is being
> >>> choked and can easily cause this problem.
> >> I worked as a mechanic years ago, and did the tune up myself, the air
> >> filter was changed
>
>
> > Any chance the brake calipers are sticking and creating lots of friction?
> > Not likely... But ya never know.
>
> car has 54,000 miles on it (yes that is correct) 1991 Geo Metro
>
Goe Metro...that has the 3-cylinder engine ? Those cars aren't
designed to go much beyond 54,000 miles.
Dump that POS NOW.....
Chief...@hotmail.com
> On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, TKM wrote:
>
> > "clams casino" <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
> >news:IEOii.11122$%K1....@newsfe21.lga...
> >> Ward Abbott wrote:
>
> >>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:09:27 -0700, James <j...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> That large a drop signifies an issue with the engine that you need to
> >>>> address. It could just be in need of a tune up - new plugs etc.
>
> >>> Don't forget to check your tire pressure.
> >> Doubt that low tire pressure with cause a 50% drop in mileage- sounds more
> >> like an antipollution device gone bad.
>
> > We were astonished that our Prius dropped 5-10 mpg because of 3-4 lb.
> > lower-than-recommended tire pressure. Just to be sure, I tried different
> > tire pressures over the same route in similar weather. Same thing happened.
>
> Yup. Prius is very sensitive to pressure changes, or maybe we're just
> more in tune with watching the MPG very closely.
>
> I've got mine at 40 front, 38 rear, although I've seen recommendations for
> 42/40.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Some recommend inflating tires to MAX LOAD pressure, but consider the
damage that can do to your other suspension
components which rely to some degree on the tires themselves absorbing
some of the road shock. IF your tires
are rock hard, the few cents you save in gasoline will likely be
offset by early shock absorber replacement costs, particularly
in cold climates where shocks are stiff untill they warm up servral
miles down the cold winter road.
Dennis
wrote:
>In article <vpv7939i5o9uvme1v...@4ax.com>,
> Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I just returned from a 4000-mile road trip in our trusty old Suburban.
>> This big old boat usually gets around 11-12 miles per gallon in my
>> normal (occasional) local driving (including a mix of in-town and
>> 55-60 mph highway driving). Imagine my surprise when I got 16+ mpg
>> driving it at 65-70 mph, fully loaded, down the interstate! My theory
>> is that it spent more time in overdrive in the sweet spot of the
>> engine's torque curve at the higher speeds. I dunno, but I'm not
>> complaining.
>>
>> 16 years old, 160K miles, and I only had to add 1 quart of oil during
>> the whole trip. Not bad for climbing the Rockies twice.
>
>That's pretty sweet. Interstate miles are the best miles. Details: i'm
>guessing you kept your tires carefully inflated...
Yep. Also, a fresh tuneup, brake job and oil change before departure.
(Frugally DIY, of course.)
>Cruise the whole way?
Just a well-regulated right foot. :-)
>
>Clean roof or rack?
Smooth as a baby's butt (well, a big square red one, anyway).
>Still, it had to be painful pulling into those
>interstate gas stations. :-)
I discovered that a lot of the self-service gas pumps stop at US$75
when you pay at the pump with a credit card. That's only around 24
gallons; the 'burb has a 31-gallon tank. :-(
Surprisingly, the cheapest gas we found for the whole trip was back
home in no-self-serve Oregon. US$2.89/gal for ethanol-free regular
87.
>I'll dig out my stats for a 1960 Biscayne (6-235, three speed man) trip from
>Napa to Chicago some time.
>
>ISTR you used to be from around west suburban Chicago -- were you around St.
>Chas?
PDX area (home) ->Idaho->Wyoming (Yellowstone)->S. Dakota->N.
Dakota->Montana->Idaho->Washington->PDX area
>
>.max
>
>Relatedly, someone i know claims their 1999 (?) Jeep Grand Cherokee, with
>every imaginable option and auto trans, gets a solid 20 mpg in stop-n-go
>suburban driving. I say bullshit. EPA is 16/21. verdict?
Sounds suspect, but I wouldn't rule it out. I regularly average the
top EPA highway mileage rating for my Corolla during my mixed-driving
commute.
Logan Shaw
> Some recommend inflating tires to MAX LOAD pressure, but consider the
> damage that can do to your other suspension
> components which rely to some degree on the tires themselves absorbing
> some of the road shock. IF your tires
> are rock hard, the few cents you save in gasoline will likely be
> offset by early shock absorber replacement costs
Not to mention early tire replacement costs, since tires don't wear
properly when they are over-inflated. And maybe increased braking
distance, which could get expensive really quick.
- Logan
Dennis
Probably a good rule in general but IME, I usually don't see my tires
wear evenly unless I slightly overinflate them beyond the specs on the
sticker on my vehicle. But then I have a habit of hard cornering on
the windy country roads I frequent.
barbie gee
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Dennis wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:00:33 -0500, Logan Shaw
> <lshaw-...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Chief...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Some recommend inflating tires to MAX LOAD pressure, but consider the
>>> damage that can do to your other suspension
>>> components which rely to some degree on the tires themselves absorbing
>>> some of the road shock. IF your tires
>>> are rock hard, the few cents you save in gasoline will likely be
>>> offset by early shock absorber replacement costs
>>
>> Not to mention early tire replacement costs, since tires don't wear
>> properly when they are over-inflated. And maybe increased braking
>> distance, which could get expensive really quick.
>
> Probably a good rule in general but IME, I usually don't see my tires
> wear evenly unless I slightly overinflate them beyond the specs on the
> sticker on my vehicle. But then I have a habit of hard cornering on
> the windy country roads I frequent.
even with routine tire rotations?
Dennis
Sure. Radials are swapped front to back on the same side of the car.
How would that help wearing on the edges from cornering?
Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin
Chief...@hotmail.com
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Dennis wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:00:33 -0500, Logan Shaw
>
> >> Chief_Bi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> Some recommend inflating tires to MAX LOAD pressure, but consider the
> >>> damage that can do to your other suspension
> >>> components which rely to some degree on the tires themselves absorbing
> >>> some of the road shock. IF your tires
> >>> are rock hard, the few cents you save in gasoline will likely be
> >>> offset by early shock absorber replacement costs
>
> >> Not to mention early tire replacement costs, since tires don't wear
> >> properly when they are over-inflated. And maybe increased braking
> >> distance, which could get expensive really quick.
>
> > Probably a good rule in general but IME, I usually don't see my tires
> > wear evenly unless I slightly overinflate them beyond the specs on the
> > sticker on my vehicle. But then I have a habit of hard cornering on
> > the windy country roads I frequent.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
REad, and heed:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/brochure/info/tmpInfoAirPressure.jsp
Chief...@hotmail.com
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:34:50 -0500, barbie gee
>
>
> >On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Dennis wrote:
> >> Probably a good rule in general but IME, I usually don't see my tires
> >> wear evenly unless I slightly overinflate them beyond the specs on the
> >> sticker on my vehicle. But then I have a habit of hard cornering on
> >> the windy country roads I frequent.
>
> >even with routine tire rotations?
>
> Sure. Radials are swapped front to back on the same side of the car.
> How would that help wearing on the edges from cornering?
Most non-directional radials can be swapped side to side
Dennis
"However, higher inflation pressures reduce rolling resistance
slightly and typically provide a slight improvement in steering
response and cornering stability. This is why participants who use
street tires in autocrosses, track events and road races run higher
than normal inflation pressures."
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally