Move out of the city...
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age. The
issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
material goods.
Whatever happened to the "American Dream."
Whatever that means nowadays, I think is a bunch of crap, and I want
out!
-Mike
Me
kalis...@hotmail.com (HisNameWasRobertPaulson) wrote:
Each of us has our own aspirations. For some people, having a high
paying tech job and living in a city IS their version of the American
dream. This is a subject near and dear to my heart. I too work in a
"relatively" high paying tech job in an urban setting. My job is very
secure, my salary is decent (above the median), excellent benefits, and
liberal vacation time. I have a lifestyle that many people envy, but
lately, I have not been happy with my job.
I used to love my job. I still like most of the people with whom I work,
but there is something missing; an avenue for me to express my
creativity. I will address that problem soon though. I am enrolling in
some summer art courses. I hope some day to get to a point where I can
at least earn some ocassional money by creating and selling my own art
work part time. I am in a situation with golden handcuffs, but I am
closer to retirement than you. I look upon the days when I can come and
go when I want and live in a small quiet town selling my art work in a
gallary and travel a few weeks per year getting ideas to create more
works of art.
Nathan Hartley
a low paying tech job living in the city, because someone from the city who
had a higher paying tech job was able to buy the family farm for far more
than I was.
Soon that soy bean field will be a sub-division.....
I hope you like to eat grass clippings! =)
Nathan Hartley
http://ilothlorien.com
But isn't that how the "American Dream" works for the other half?
"HisNameWasRobertPaulson" <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53168182.03030...@posting.google.com...
MerryStahel
job, if you need to.
Yeah, sounds like an oxymoron - but I have a friend who is doing it - and he
has not been able to find a job for the past month. He moved back to our
little hometown - 20,000 people - he can't even get a job at McD's. And its
out in the middle of nowhere, the closest big city is a good 2 hours away.
Merry
Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once
http://hometown.aol.com/merrystahel/index.html
http://www.stardancerpress.com/MerryStahel/
john...@yahoo.com
>little hometown - 20,000 people - he can't even get a job at McD's.
Im curious...... where is this little town of 20,000?
Nancy
"MerryStahel" <merry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030306093150...@mb-cu.aol.com...
> Find a small town relatively close to a big city - so you can find a
decent
> job, if you need to.
>
I live in a rural area where "good" jobs are hard to find. There is a large
over-65 population. In this area we desperately need:
1. Auto mechanics - basic stuff.
2. Handymen
3. Nurses - RN and LVN
4. House cleaners
It's surprising to me that school teachers are not needed. The long time
residents encourage their kids to become teachers & almost all the teaching
jobs go to these kids.
Nancy
Lena
Mike mulled
> I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
> Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
> this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age. The
> issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
> comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
> material goods.
The most important thing you can do at this stage of your life is
concentrate on finding a job you really like. Then everything else will
fall in place.
--
Lena
lenaga...@hotmail.com
put hotmail in the subject line to get thru the filters
Joe C.
good book that gives the feeling that making a move like that is possible.
Good luck.
Joe
"HisNameWasRobertPaulson" <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53168182.03030...@posting.google.com...
Dennis
(HisNameWasRobertPaulson) wrote:
>I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
>Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
>this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age. The
>issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
>comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
>material goods.
Twenty five, huh? So you've been slaving away in the high paying Tech
job rat race for what? Maybe three whole years now? Haven't even
paid off your first new car yet. Doesn't speak well for your
attention span/tenacity/ability to deal with delayed gratification.
Which also doesn't bode too well for your impulse to jump into a low
pay, low tech job, rural lifestyle, either.
the Dennis formerly known as (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
troika boika
Look, you have a rather skewed idea of the art world. Art is not
something you run to in order to escape your "real" job. Art IS A REAL
JOB!! Nobody is going to take you seriously as an artist, especially
any reputable art gallery, if you don't have some REAL art training.
Taking a few classes is just NOT going to cut it. Good art schools,
and good universities with reputable art programs, are difficult to
get into; when you do get accepted, they employ the "break you down
before they build you back up" technique of teaching. Guess
what...the art world is competitive.I am so DAMN sick and tired of
people such as yourself that have absolutely no clue about the art
world. Let me guess, I bet you think art history is a waste of time,
and you don't support the arts (financially). People like you are a
dime a dozen. Let me give you a hint, if you talk to any REAL artist,
they will tell you that creating art is a hellish process, it is not
"therapeutic" like you amateurs always believe.
troika boika
max
kalis...@hotmail.com (HisNameWasRobertPaulson) wrote:
> I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
> Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
> this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age.
OK. You're a little young for anyone to take your rat race complaints
seriously. Honest -- you're barely old enuf to be considered sentient.
Intellect != wisdom.
First off, if the acquisition of material goods is getting you down --
stop acquiring material goods! Really: get on board w/ a more frugal
lifestyle, and focus on SAVING money, not spending it. Discover the
thrift store, cooking your own food. Maybe plan to move -- closer --to
work so you can ride a bike there.
You might consider that if you quit your job and run off to Mayberry,
you will have to learn to do with less stuff and fewer services and fun
things to do. Get used to it now and see how it feels.
Your aspiration to move out to the bucolic stix was notably missing any
specific. As other posters have mentioned, jobs are increasinglymore
difficult to find the further away from a city you go.
If you really really want to leave your job, you should map it out, with
excruciating detail, including who you're going to work for, how much
you'll get paid and stuff like that. Will your current skillset be of
use? Will you need more edumacation? How do you feel about physical
labor?
I think it highly likely you have a vastly romanticized, inaccurate,
vague notioin of what you speak. Ergo: Don't Do It!!
Focus on where you are, now, and how you interact with your world, now
and make _that_ better. The green grass you think is out there is
astroturf.
Grow up a little, concentrate on $aving money and paring useless expenses
and resolve to defer messing up your life until you're fourty. :-)
.max
--
the part of <beta...@earthlink.net>
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p
IleneB
HisNameWasRobertPaulson <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
> Acura, and moving to the country or a small town
Well, what would you plan to drive, especially if you're "in the
country?" And what would you do to pay the bills you'd still have, even
for a modest life, like housing/food/utilities/healthcare?
If you want to stop having a materialistic competitive life, you can
work on stopping the attitudes and beliefs that fuel it. No need to
move somewhere else.
ILene B
Dennis
>OK. You're a little young for anyone to take your rat race complaints
>seriously. Honest -- you're barely old enuf to be considered sentient.
>Intellect != wisdom.
As Billy Crystal said to Jimmy Fallon of SNL: "I've thrown up scotch
that was older than you!".
:-)
John
"HisNameWasRobertPaulson" <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53168182.03030...@posting.google.com...
I believe that most of us work to live.....
My wife and I decided two years BC (Before Children) that whoever made the
most money would work, the other would take care of the kids. We eat a lot
of chicken and baloney and live modestly. Recently we looked at SWMBO going
back to work since the boys are 7, 8 and 12 now. After working expenses
(clothes, lunches, transportation, latchkey for the boys and more taxes) The
benefit was about 100.00 a week. Hardly worth the effort of running to make
last minute meals, crowding the kitchen and bathroom in the morning, calling
each other if one or the other has to work late to get home on time, taking
care of the home and the children's needs and so on.
We haven't been to Disney and may not be there for another year or two, we
don't drive the new cars or live in a McMansion, but hey, our Boys have
something that most of todays kid's don't - a parent at home full time. Our
life revolves around our marriage, then the boys, then the family then
work........ Nothing else really matters.
I say get out of the race, you have already recognized the stress of it all
and you are young
Imagine your life with a spouse you love, a few children, cub scouts and boy
scouts, baseball games and soccer on top of your currently stressful career
path - Sounds like a heart attack waiting to happen.
The American Dream is alive and well kiddo, Start building yours......
John
us...@example.com
>I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
>Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
>this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age. The
>issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
>comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
>material goods.
>Whatever happened to the "American Dream."
That IS the American Dream. People from other countries would and DO
swim through shark infested waters for a chance at it. But if it's not
for you, that's a different matter.
Don K
news:53168182.03030...@posting.google.com...
Location has nothing to do with racing rats.
That's something you've chosen to do, regardless of where you live.
If you want more control over your life, stop working long hours.
Get a job somewhere doing something you enjoy, but don't be
compulsive about it and don't let it dominate your life.
Don
MerryStahel
California. Middle of the Mojave Desert - Earthquake city, USA (they have the
most earthquakes of any one town in the US - some 3,000 a year).
Ridgecrest, CA.
You'll find it on a map next to China Lake Naval Weapons Center.
MikeD
I'm impressed by the number of young people I encounter now
who know that a well-paid job isn't all you need for a good
life. It took me nearly 20 years to figure that out!
On the other hand, it's also true that the workplaces of 20
years were not as demanding and stressful as those of today.
High tech work is a chaotic churn of ever-changing demands
driven by short-sighted, often incompetent, management that
has little respect for people and their lives.
You don't say whether you particularly like or dislike your
tech job. Are you looking for more meaningful work? Less
stress? More free time? To be your own boss? Analyze your
motivations.
You'll have to think carefully about what you are trying to
achieve. Even with the lower costs of a small town or rural
area, you'll need some income. How might you earn it?
Figure out scenarios and budgets. You'll probably have to
stay in the rat race for a few years and accumulate some
savings. Living as cheaply as you can in that period will
help you to figure out what you can do without and still be
happy. With good planning, you could reach middle age with a
level of financial security and choice in life that many
people will never achieve.
Consider home ownership. If you want to live in a small
town, houses are much more affordable than in a city. Unlike
rent, a mortgage is eventually finished. Then monthly living
costs get much lower.
Don't let anyone tell you that looking for an alternative is
foolish and that you should just shut up and do the standard
career thing. Better to plot your escape now than regret a
wasted life later.
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
I for one disagree that the 'rat-race' is a purely individual concept.
Yes, one's attitude and actions have a lot to do with it, but
environment is also key. NO one can say that the environment in which
they live does not effect them in some way.
The environment of a small town effects me, and also that of a city. I
do not like how the fast-paced bull-crap of the city makes me feel, I
feel comfortable in a small town, where the streets are quite, the
people more laid back, etc. Life is different there. NO one can deny
this.
I know this becuase I was raised in a small town. I had aspirations of
doing "great things in big places," to pursure what I was; and all my
collegues were raised to believe, the American Dream.
And let me ask a question, do I have to pursue this "Keeping up with
the Jones'" lifestyle until I am 40? 50 years old?
I think I have already figured out that it is bull-crap! So why waste
all that time that I am not even gauranteed?
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
Eventually, I want to start my own business. With the skills that I
have aquired and a Business degree and also some experience in
entrepreneurship, I think that it is a feasible goal.
Even though the level of difficulty of finding work in a small town is
increased as opposed to the city, I am determined.
I don't know what life was like in America 20, 30 or 50 years ago, but
I would like to believe that is was not so embellished, not so
superficial and not so materialistic.
What I want to achieve is more time and less stress. I used to be in a
Boy Scout troop while a teenager; I want invest time into my old troop
again as a Scoutmaster. I also want to pursue several hobbies of mine
that have laid dormant for years because of my work and the demands on
my time. In essence, I want to enjoy life.
And if that means a life with less money, SO BE IT!
-Mike (plotting my escape)
#######
"Only realize the truth... there is no spoon."
#######
max
>
> Thank you all for the posts. I must respond to a few however,
>
> I for one disagree that the 'rat-race' is a purely individual concept.
> Yes, one's attitude and actions have a lot to do with it, but
> environment is also key. NO one can say that the environment in which
> they live does not effect them in some way.
Duh.
> The environment of a small town effects me, and also that of a city. I
> do not like how the fast-paced bull-crap of the city makes me feel, I
> feel comfortable in a small town, where the streets are quite, the
> people more laid back, etc. Life is different there. NO one can deny
> this.
No man is an island blah blah blah. It's purely how you relate to the
environment you're in. I knew one woman who considered west suburban
Chicago the equivelant of Sow's Scrotum Arkansas. She was at peace,
serene even, in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood of New York's Burrough
of Manhattan.
> I know this becuase I was raised in a small town.
I was raised in small town usa. And. Big City USA. And all over the
country. The town i was initally raised in now exists soley on the
income generated by the prison located there. The factories are gone
and the town is effectively dead.
> I had aspirations of
> doing "great things in big places," to pursure what I was; and all my
> collegues were raised to believe, the American Dream.
> And let me ask a question, do I have to pursue this "Keeping up with
> the Jones'" lifestyle until I am 40? 50 years old?
Every Single Respondent in this thread as said, without equivocation:
No.
You Do Not Have To Play Keep Up With The Jonses. _Ever_. Concrete
alternatives
have been suggested to you. Why are you equating a job/career to KUWTJ?
I'm compelled to ask: what the hell are you talking about??? What i'm
getting is that you've somehow conflated earning a good living with
consumerism. They only overlap if
you want them to. What's the Great Things in Big Places stuff? Here's
a clue: ALL
of us were raised to expect the same thing.
All of us are unique, special. Just like each snowflake in this week's
blizzard was special, unique.
What are your specific, itemized complaints with your "lifestyle"?
Where did you come from, where are you know, what do you do, and what,
exactly, do you not like about your life? "It's all bull-crap" is
nonresponsive.
> I think I have already figured out that it is bull-crap! So why waste
> all that time that I am not even gauranteed?
Achieving a balance between work, earnings, material acquisition,
personal life, relationships and fulfillment isn't BS. Playing keep-up
is, but YOU (absent a contrary explanation) are the one forcing you to
play keep-up, not anyone else. Defining your own version of the
American Dream isn't bull crap. And neither is having the courage to
live it.
But.
You write "not even guarenteed". Dude, moving out of the big city isn't
going to guarentee you anything. You would do well to heed the unceasing
migration of jobs
offshore: small towns are infinitely more susceptable to economic
privation from the
destruction of a local industry than are most large cities.
So, again: what specifically are you complaining about and how,
precisely, is it so bad that you are willing to dump your life and start
over?
The reason i'm harshing so insistently is that many people have found,
to their distress, that running away from problems -- instead of solving
them in situ -- only meant they had to deal with the problems somewhere
else, often with a lower standard
of living or income. It's true: you can't run away.
So what's the real story?
.max
John
Don't be overly concerned with how much money you make. That number alone
is not the measuring stick from which you can establish a good life,
financially and otherwise.
20, 30 and 50 years ago we didn't have to spend money on the following
Dinner out several times a month, new car's, the latest PC game, the latest
video game, the latest playstation and nintendo, high speed internet,
gourmet foods, expensive vacations, the latest fashions, big screen tv's,
large homes that have large mortgages and heating bills, we didn't have
credit card debt, didn't spend money each week for renting new release
videos.....I could go on and on.
All of the above things are wants, not needs.
Take your checkbook and make notes for just one month on these types of
expenses and itemize them. Then add about 20% for the tax load. That's
money that some, including myself, would consider being earned and spent
frivolously. I would bet a dollar to a donut that there is wasted money
that brings little to no really happiness in your life. Many, many dollars
are spent keeping up with the Jones. Many of the Jones are now looking at
the Smith's simple life and are beginning to get quite envious themselves.
Monthly
100 Dinner out twice
400 more mortgage than you need
200 more in taxes for that great home in the latest development
100 more to heat that great home (is anyone ever home)
200 for that ever present credit card debt
300 Car payment
75 extra insurance because you drive a new car, not a 10 year old reliable
vehicle
50 a PC or playstation game a month
30 Video rental
100 Maxed out cable, digital cable, pay per view
25 for high speed internet vs dialup
800 daycare
x 12 months
Annual
5000 That great annual Disney vacation
1000 The latest PC / nintendo / playstation electronic item
6,000.00
There's 35, 00 or so in cash, a gross salary of about 40 to 45,000.00 alone
is required to pay for these things that are "Nice to haves" but not needs.
In fact, most of the above items are "Entertainment related" There are less
expensive and free means to be entertained. It's expensive passing time
huh? Then again, you can surf at the library for free, check out books and
video tapes. You can play games with the family instead of watching TV.
Remember Monopoly, clue, sorry, trouble, cards, Pinochle people just about
give away table games at garage sales. Go camping for a week instead of
Disney or that great all inclusive and save a few grand.
Hat's off to you to get back to scouting as a leader. I have been one for
six years. There's no better quality time then spending time with your
son's and 85 of his closest friends at camping trips, sleepovers at the
Philly Zoo, day trips to the beach and pack meetings. It's time better
spend than surfing, gaming, TV, working or fretting over paying the bills.
Pay your debts off, budget, live comfortably and live happily ever after.
Good luck and God Bless.
John
"Life ain't a matter of having good cards,
but playing a poor hand well"
"HisNameWasRobertPaulson" <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53168182.03030...@posting.google.com...
> I love my work, but hate my job.
> Eventually, I want to start my own business. With the skills that I
> have aquired and a Business degree and also some experience in
> entrepreneurship, I think that it is a feasible goal.
<SNIP>
john...@yahoo.com
>most earthquakes of any one town in the US - some 3,000 a year).
>
>Ridgecrest, CA.
>
>You'll find it on a map next to China Lake Naval Weapons Center.
OK Merry.... was just curious.
I live in a small town of 20,000 also.... right
now...... Hannibal Missouri.
Actually it's abt 18,000
So Im reading this thread with interest. <G>
john...@yahoo.com
Mike....Im curious.... what exactly is your high tech
job?
MerryStahel
>So Im reading this thread with interest. <G>
Yeah, me too. I'd love to go back to that lifestyle (but not to my hometown -
hated the place then, hate it now - mostly because of the adopted family factor
- not because of the town).
I don't like living in the big city, but at the same time, I don't like living
in certain small towns which have no access to the sort of things I'd like to
have around me.
Believe it or not - my parents retired and moved from where they lived for 16
years in West Virginia - to a small town more central to family - Osceola,
Missouri.
Pa's criteria was it had to be within a mile of a lake, it had to be on a dirt
road, it had to be within 10 miles of a WalMart, it had to be within 100 miles
of a military base (he's retired military - commissary, exchange and medical
privileges) and he wanted some acerage and deep woods, so they could enjoy the
animal life. They also looked at taxes and lifestyle - getting older, Pa
doesn't want to be shoveling snow or cracking ice off roofs and such. Oh, and
it had to have internet access <G>.
He didn't want to live by a WalMart, per se, but he figured, from all our
camping around the country, that where there was a WalMart, there would be more
stores of other types - a larger variety, if you will.
They live a mile and half from the lake, 10 miles from the closest WalMart, and
80 miles away from the base. They found 4 1/2 acres with a small trailer on it
in the deep woods on a dirt road (he says dirt roads don't attract kids driving
cars around at midnight - and he's right). They paid for it with cash, from
selling their West Va home.
He's cleared some of the woods, to build a huge garage/workshop. He also
cleared some of the trees that were an endangerment. He used the cedar trees
and made birdhouses (he calls them the $600 birdhouses because he factored in
all his labor from cutting, to final product <G>). He cleared some of the
acerage for a vegetable patch and strawberries, and also where they want to
build their house.
He is planning to build a T-shaped old fashioned log cabin type, I think - Mom
wants a more Victorian look - they've been dickering for 2 years while they
allow savings to build up.
They've done several small projects that don't seem like anything, but enhances
their life immeasurably - a steel plate over the drainage ditch they have at
the front of the property, some groundwork to help more with drainage, and Pa
also did some sewer work and electrical stuff. I should mention - Pa is a
master electrician and carpenter, can also fix anything on wheels, and knows a
lot about electronics, physics and chemistry, he's also a hunter and fisherman.
If we got bombed back to the stone age - Pa has all the survival skills and
then some, necessary to live.
Mom got bored with all his projects and she got herself a job in town - just
part time working at the gas station, but she has hot plans to decorate the
house Pa is planning to build. So she's saving her money to do that.
The good thing is - both of them are also very healthy - they've always had an
active lifestyle and have been able to maintain it. Mom runs circles around
everyone - she tent-camps with us, sleeping on the ground and cooking over an
open fire, no sweat. I point this out because Mom is 10 years older than Pa -
she's an active 68 years old, and most people don't realize that when they see
her. She acts 30 years younger. Lively, active, walks 3-4 miles a day (they
walk down to the lake every morning to watch the bald eagles) and she can
FINISH the extreme Tae Bo exercise tape - she does it every morning!
I must add, though - that Pa and Mom worked nearly 40 years to get where they
are - Pa spent 22 years in the military, and then did 20 years at the power
company. Mom worked a variety of jobs for many years, too.
So they may not have aggressively planned their retirement - but they did keep
it in mind...
Merry
Todd Mason
MerryStahel says:
> John said:
>
> >So Im reading this thread with interest. <G>
>
> Yeah, me too. I'd love to go back to that lifestyle (but not to my
hometown -
> hated the place then, hate it now - mostly because of the adopted family
factor
> - not because of the town).
>
> I don't like living in the big city, but at the same time, I don't like
living
> in certain small towns which have no access to the sort of things I'd like
to
> have around me.
Thanks for posting this, Merry. It certainly sounds like your parents have
a very comfortable and interesting lifestyle.
I was also reading this thread with interest, as I'm about the same age as
the original poster and I think maybe I've avoided what he is going through.
One problem that people of my generation (what am I? Y? Z? I don't think I'm
GenX...) seem to struggle with is the idea that we don't want to be part of
the rat race that many of our parents were/are in (mine included) but we
also don't want to give up the amenities that seem to come with it. That's
a tough thing to do.
I have a dear friend who is a graphic designer, she was able to move away
from Atlanta to a small town in South Georgia and found a way to continue
doing what she loved to do (she opened her own business with a partner).
She's found much happiness in the small town, and she would have been the
last person I would have thought could have been happy doing so. It can be
done.
For myself, I have instituted many frugal habits over the past two years,
and they've served me well. I'm trying to throw myself back into grad
school (and dragging my feet a little) with the EXPRESSED purpose of earning
more money and placing myself in a stable field of work. Sounds pretty "rat
race," to me. If I earn $80,000/year in a rather high stress environment
(that I enjoy), but drive a 6-year old Camry and live in the cheapest place
possible, while rarely eating out, buying clothes on sale or "recycled," am
I really living the rat race? It's all about the mental state and the
behavior that follows...
Todd, who turned 25 yesterday and is worried that it's all downhill from
here... :-)
john...@yahoo.com
>hated the place then, hate it now - mostly because of the adopted family factor
>- not because of the town).
Merry...Im a bit confused..... did you grow up in
RidgeCrest?
Were your parents born there also..... or was your
parents just stationed there in the military when you
were born?
john...@yahoo.com
>Dinner out several times a month, new car's, the latest PC game, the latest
>video game, the latest playstation and nintendo, high speed internet,
>gourmet foods, expensive vacations, the latest fashions, big screen tv's,
>large homes that have large mortgages and heating bills, we didn't have
>credit card debt, didn't spend money each week for renting new release
>videos.....I could go on and on.
John.... you make a very god point I hadn't thought
of....and that is that there are MANY MORE things to
spend money on now days!!
Hadn't thought abt that.
MerryStahel
>Todd, who turned 25 yesterday and is worried that it's all downhill from
>here... :-)
Well, FYI - I wouldn't be UNDER 40 again if you gave me all the money in the
world.
I am loving life. Old enough now to understand what I want, and brave enough
to go after it. As a youngster, I spent too much time and effort doing what
other people expected.
Like I tell DH, if we ended up in a dirt shack in Oklahoma (not likely - just
illustrating) - I'd still be happy.
I am comfortable with ME, now, and I have enough skills to get by, if need be.
There are ALWAYS options, and I now understand that.
I used to be scared of things like not having a good job, not having a good
life, not having enough money for retirement, not having ENOUGH.
I've learned that ENOUGH comes from within. Not to get all philosophical - but
if my world was rocked now (no job, no money, lost everything, retirement in
question), I could handle it. 20 years ago, I couldn't.
MerryStahel
>RidgeCrest?
I grew up there. 13 years. Until I was 21.
My adopted parents moved there in the late 1950s, with a Civil Service job, and
ended up staying until both of them died, around 40 years.
I moved to RC when I was 8 years old in 1964, and ended up being adopted
(illegally) by them. One of my younger brothers was also born there, as my real
Mom was pregnant when we moved there. I stayed there until 1978.
When I speak of Mom and Pa - I am referring to my real Mom and my step-Dad.
I guess it gets confusing for folk who don't know me - suffice to say - I have
two sets of parents - the adopted family (now dead) and my REAL Mom and
step-Dad.
Real Mom lived around us, even after adoption, and was interactive in my life
the whole time. So was my REAL Dad's family (My real Dad died when I was 7 -
which precipitated the entire mess <G>).
It gets very confusing on the geneology charts, as I have 2 full sisters, 2
full brothers, 1 step-brother, 4 half-brothers and 1 foster brother. I keep in
touch with all of them, except the step-brother, who died in a car accident at
age 17. Supposedly, I also have a half-sister, but no one on my father's side
of the family will tell us where she is (they apparently keep in touch with
her).
JoelnCaryn
>living
>in certain small towns which have no access to the sort of things I'd like to
>have around me.
Yeah. I won't move anywhere without a major symphony orchestra and at least
one university.
--
Caryn
"They've got a swimming pool where you can go and watch English rock stars
reading _Language, Truth and Logic_ for the photographers." -- Douglas Adams
john...@yahoo.com
>(illegally) by them. One of my younger brothers was also born there, as my real
>Mom was pregnant when we moved there. I stayed there until 1978.
Oh..... OK Merry.
Thanks for sharing the story.....very interesting.
Your Ma and Pa don't live too far from me..... maybe
abt two hrs away.
Here is my story:
Im 44 and have lived in Hannibal all my life. Hannibal
is a small rural town with limited jobs and limited
things to do.
I have often thought abt moving to a bigger city....
maybe not a huge city.... but bigger. Hannibal is abt
18,000...... I always thought a city of say 80,000
might be a god size....say like Columbia Missouri.
That way it would have a few things such as a Mall.....
a few movie theaters.... etc.
Anyway......Ive been very interested in this thread....
reading what others thing of the big vs small city
thing.
JoelnCaryn
>the original poster and I think maybe I've avoided what he is going through.
>One problem that people of my generation (what am I? Y? Z? I don't think I'm
>GenX...)
You are, if you're 25. At least, the standard definition is "born between
1962-1982", with 1962 being the boomer cutoff and GenY starting in '82.
>seem to struggle with is the idea that we don't want to be part of
>the rat race that many of our parents were/are in (mine included) but we
>also don't want to give up the amenities that seem to come with it. That's
>a tough thing to do.
You can do it.
I and my friends do things like:
live in a small cheap townhouse
rent a room in a private house
drive a small cheap car
bike to work
not own a cell phone
don't have cable
don't go to movies
cut our own hair
wear jeans and t-shirts
carry babies in hand-sewn slings and breastfeed them
juice lemons and freeze the juice for lemonade all summer
get together to play Scrabble and eat gingerbread on Friday nights
run old software
own two pairs of sturdy walking shoes and one pair of dress shoes
This frees us to do things like attend graduate school in philosophy and start
our own businesses. :-)
Dennis
wrote:
>All of us are unique, special. Just like each snowflake in this week's
>blizzard was special, unique.
That may be true for everyone else, but I'm not.
;-)
John
"Pat Meadows" <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote in message
news:22ah6vk4ridlmt4m4...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:47:32 -0500, "John"
> <mrnic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Could agree with you except for one thing: a home is a
> need, not a want.
I agree. My point was that a 700 principal payment is
better than an 1,100.00 principal payment. Perhaps I
could have been clearer.
John
Chloe
news:2ljh6vkv288cocviv...@4ax.com...
Everybody has their own comfort level when it comes to population size. I
lived for most of my adult life in a place of about 250,000 population. I
more or less adjusted but I never stopped feeling like I was in a little
hick town and always missed the 1+ million size city where I grew up. Two
years ago I finally got to come home. The biggest problem I have now with
respect to this subject is not regretting the years I spent away.
For me the big issues are access to the arts, especially music, and the kind
of variety--in many aspects of life--that comes with a population base of a
certain size.
john...@yahoo.com
>lived for most of my adult life in a place of about 250,000 population. I
>more or less adjusted but I never stopped feeling like I was in a little
>hick town and always missed the 1+ million size city where I grew up.
Hmm.....thats interesting...isn't it?
What you consider a small town (250,000) .....would to
me be a huge metropolis! Hahaha
What towns might I ask are you talking of???
>For me the big issues are access to the arts, especially music, and the kind
>of variety--in many aspects of life--that comes with a population base of a
>certain size.
Yes.... I agree. We certainly have very little of that
where I live (18,000)
john...@yahoo.com
That one would be sort of hard for me to give up.
I feel there is a certain "safety factor" in carrying a
cell phone with you
IleneB
HisNameWasRobertPaulson <kalis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> let me ask a question, do I have to pursue this "Keeping up with
> the Jones'" lifestyle until I am 40? 50 years old?
Of course not. You don't have to pursue it for another minute. I just
thought from your post that you might not have thought through how to
take care of basic living in a small town or "out in the country."
Certainly, there are some pressures in a high-powered environment. High
rent, perhaps the need for good clothing. On the other hand, it is
possible to live car-free in most cities and pay the rent to live near
the job or public transport - no need for an Accura or even a beater
(although I always kept a beat old car when I lived in the city, since
I worked shift work).
People in their 20s in the city where I'm near (Boston) tend to live
high-maintanence lives- restaurants, going out, arts and entertainment
stuff. This is hard to keep up with if your friends are all doing it,
but they start dropping off into quieter lives quite soon after 25-
leaving the city for cheaper housing or home ownership or family or a
job transfer to a quieter area or grad school.
Could you do your high tech job in a small town environment, for
instance, the IT department of a school district or small college? Etc.
Ilene B
IleneB
<john...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> you make a very god point I hadn't thought
> of....and that is that there are MANY MORE things to
> spend money on now days!
Amen. I know people who *assume* that the following things are "basics":
a cell phone or two in addition to a land line
cable TV (especially the plus versions)
a person who comes in every other week to clean house (for someone who
lives alone!)
The three above cost about $140/month for that person. For a year after
taxes, that's $1680/year. For someone who makes about $35K. And she's
not doing it to "keep up" with anyone, she just thinks these are basic
expenses.
And for the poster who wrote of the American dream being a stay-home
parent with "a few kids," please note that "a few kids" is an enormous
expense. Worth it to those who really want that life, but not
everyone's dream, American or otherwise.
Ilene B
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
education
I am at least glad that I have a job, SysAdmins are having a terrible
time getting hired right now...
-Mike
john...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<2f9h6v8a513e352df...@4ax.com>...
IleneB
<just...@spam.com> wrote:
> For me the big issues are access to the arts, especially music, and the kind
> of variety--in many aspects of life--that comes with a population base of a
> certain size.
For me (long past 25) the major issue of where I live is people. I'm
rather terminally single, and I do think that people with a good home
relationship (spouse/companion) take some 80% of what they need with
them wherever they go. I live a mere 25 miles from Boston, and find
that most people around me are family-oriented, never go into the city
(and never lived there), and in general don't live the kind of life I
had in the city. Now, I was tired of the drawbacks of the city, and
didn't have to live there for my job. But it is hard to start up a
social life in a non-city environment. For that matter, it's hard to be
a single person among many couples/single parents, and the city is one
place where there is a critical mass of people who are not in couples
or parenting. This is certainly truest when one is younger, like the
poster, but it's also true in general. Cambridge, MA, (my former turf)
has the highest percentage of single-person households in the state-
something like 52% of all city households.
For a young single man to go to a far-flung small town, he might have
some difficulty finding company, both romantic and friend.
Ilene B
john...@yahoo.com
>education
>I am at least glad that I have a job, SysAdmins are having a terrible
>time getting hired right now...
>
>-Mike
Where did you go to school to learn this?
Its a field I have thought abt getting into at the age
of 44.
Im currently in CAD/design right now..... getting burnt
out
Caveat
(HisNameWasRobertPaulson) wrote:
<trimmed and consolidated>
>I don't know what life was like in America 20, 30 or 50 years ago, but
>I would like to believe that is was not so embellished, not so
>superficial and not so materialistic.
Depends where you lived. I know what life was like 50 years ago, and
city life was, in many ways the same as it is now--with fewer
luxuries. Rural life was pretty much as it is today, but with more
hardships--plus a corresponding lack of comfort, privacy and options.
>What I want to achieve is more time and less stress.
So do most other people. But the trade-off is money and long-term
security. I "dropped-out" at age 35 (after grad school and a
high-income career, which I hated), and went vagabonding around the
world for 10 years. Never regretted that choice, but, after that
poverty drove me back to a selected city to make money again.
All that worked for me, but the secret is to do it before you get too
old to pick-up an career abandoned years earlier--if you should choose
(or need) to do so down the road . (Or learn to enjoy flipping
burgers.) Nice to have a choice in such matters, but you may have to
live with that choice for a very long time. Choose carefully.
>...moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
>this a good move if I was retiring...
Actually, city living was a preferable choice for me AFTER retiring.
We don't do rush-hour traffic anymore, we shop when no one else does,
and anything needed is a short distance away. Much of the time, we
walk or bike to get what we need. And there are soooo many options.
When we lived in a small mountain town for many years, we had to deal
with long trips to get simple things like car parts, house supplies,
entertainment; and had to shovel snow and put on put on chains to do
any of that much of the year. City life has its advantages; rural life
has disadvantages; and visa versa. It's always a trade-off.
>The issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
>comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
>material goods.
Sounds like you have already emotionally committed to that move. But
learn to live very frugally--possibly for the rest of your life. Who
knows, you just might live to a very old age.
Surprising how that sometimes happens.
Cheers,
Caveat
john...@yahoo.com
>>instance, the IT department of a school district or small college? Etc.
>
>those jobs. I'd say it's about impossible for newcomers to
>an area.
Why do you say this Pat?
Please explain OK?
MerryStahel
>For me the big issues are access to the arts, especially music, and the kind
>of variety--in many aspects of life--that comes with a population base of a
>certain size.
That's why you live within two hours drive of a larger city...or live in a
college town.
Currently - I am living in Corpus Christi - a college town and 2 hours drive
from San Antonio.
However, Corpus's population is around 100,000 and the surrounding smaller
towns add another 200,000 to it...
MerryStahel
>I am at least glad that I have a job, SysAdmins are having a terrible
>time getting hired right now...
Not if you want to live in DC...
I've been going to the IT job boards for months now - if you want live in DC or
the surrounding area, there appear to be PLENTY of IT jobs - from management to
Sys Admin, all the way down to techies.
Chloe
news:20030307155757...@mb-fh.aol.com...
> Chloe said:
>
> >For me the big issues are access to the arts, especially music, and the
kind
> >of variety--in many aspects of life--that comes with a population base of
a
> >certain size.
>
> That's why you live within two hours drive of a larger city...or live in a
> college town.
>
> Currently - I am living in Corpus Christi - a college town and 2 hours
drive
> from San Antonio.
>
> However, Corpus's population is around 100,000 and the surrounding smaller
> towns add another 200,000 to it...
>
> Merry
That's great if it works for you. It never really worked for me.
The place I lived *was* within 2 hours drive of a larger city, and it *was*
a college town, the main campus of the state university. But even after I
quit working full time I never considered a nearly four-hour round trip to
mean I had easy access to the arts. The smaller city did have arts
organizations and performances but they were not generally of the quality or
variety available in a larger place. At any rate, they weren't of the
quality or variety I'd become used to growing up, which I guess is what
matters for any individual. Now for most venues DH and I can leave the house
30 or 40 minutes before the start of the performance and be seated with time
to spare. Given that a lot of the types of things we enjoy are either free
or not terribly costly, we can hear great music two or three times a week if
we want to--and often do.
And don't even get me started on restaurants. It feels like a blessing that
I hope I never start to take for granted to be able to choose from three
places that serve great, cheap gyros within 20 minutes of the house.
Chloe
> years.
>
> My husband applied for every technical-type job here for
> which he is qualified. Since he's been a
> programmer/analyst/consultant for over 20 years, doing a
> variety of things, he's well qualified for most anything in
> the PC world and a lot in the mini-computer world (but not
> Cobol on IBM mainframes).
>
> He did not succeed in getting any of the jobs for which he
> is very well qualified.
>
> There aren't many such jobs in rural areas in the first
> place, and there ARE many people who want to live in rural
> areas: this makes many many applicants for each job.
>
> I believe but cannot prove that such jobs are often filled
> in rural areas on the basis of family and friendship
> relationships. Well, I know it, actually.
They're often filled that way in the city, too. My bosses like nothing
better than to find a relative of an existing good employee to hire. I'd say
about half of the company's employees have someone related to them on the
payroll. That doesn't mean the relatives always work out, but it seems to
slant the odds a bit in favor of success.
MerryStahel
>organizations and performances but they were not generally of the quality or
>variety available in a larger place. At any rate, they weren't of the
>quality or variety I'd become used to growing up, which I guess is what
>matters for any individual.
Ahhh...but I heard the BEST in small towns. In my hometown, which I've
discussed ad nauseum in this thread - we had a Community Orchestra that rivaled
some of the bigger towns I've lived in. We also were able to attract
celebrities, because of the importance of the base, and our 2 hour drive from
Los Angeles.
We've had astronauts and actors visit (Owens Dry Lake and the Trona Pinnacles
are both popular film locations, especially for movies that need surreal or
"science-fiction" type terrains (A couple Star Treks were filmed there...as
well as other movies). The astronauts trained there for the moonwalks.
It is in that small town - Ridgecrest CA - that I heard the Annapolis Brass
Quintet perform, that The Jazz Quartet from Preservation Hall of New Orleans
came to visit, that I saw FIGARO, that I heard Mary Costa sing, watched some
famous Russian Dance Troupe and plenty of others who are relatively big names
in the music and arts.
RC has an annual wildflower show that attracts thousands from around the WORLD,
and again, because of the base, there is fabulous yearly air show, and July 4th
fireworks display.
So, depending on your small town and its location and features, you might get
more than you can get in some of the larger cities...
max
> And don't even get me started on restaurants. It feels like a blessing that
> I hope I never start to take for granted to be able to choose from three
> places that serve great, cheap gyros within 20 minutes of the house.
The way i see it, if you don't within a twenty minute drive have a
restaurant where the sushi floats by on little boats in front of you,
you're living in HQQterille (c.f. green acres).
.max
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
point you in the right direction, BUT let me say this first:
Currently, the job market for SysAdmins/Network admins is VERY bad;
meaning, virtually no one is hiring for this position. The market is
SATURATED with these folks, most of them with many years experiance.
It is a very competitive field. This all happened with the DOT.COM
crash during 99/2000, that saturated the market with techies, it's
been bad ever since.
So, just so that you are well informed before you make the decision to
break into the field....
What I did to achieve my position is take classes at community college
for Newtwork Admin stuff, got an internship through my school, and
landed a good job after that. (I also have a 4-year in BA) PLEASE
NOTE: This was in 1998 and the market was good. I doubt that this
would happen today...
Hope that helps,
-Mike
john...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<etth6v0fnnnsa4fu3...@4ax.com>...
JoelnCaryn
I think this is just an intuitive feeling that costs a lot to satisfy, though I
may be wrong, for most people's lives generally.
My DH has a 210 mile round trip commute. He takes a '93 Mazda with 226K
mileage on this trip through the desert every day. He has never needed a cell
phone. He does take water, and a shade tarp.
I suppose carrying a cell is safer than not, but we would have been paying $39
a month for the past three and a half years to never use the cell phone had he
had one...
JoelnCaryn
>for the country. The only actual CITY I ever lived in was
>Edmonton, then about 250,000 people
That's tiny. :-)
Of course, I've lived in metro Phoenix for my whole life...
The Real Bev
>
> John said:
>
> >>He moved back to our
> >>little hometown - 20,000 people - he can't even get a job at McD's.
> >
> >Im curious...... where is this little town of 20,000?
> >
>
> California. Middle of the Mojave Desert - Earthquake city, USA (they have the
> most earthquakes of any one town in the US - some 3,000 a year).
>
> Ridgecrest, CA.
>
> You'll find it on a map next to China Lake Naval Weapons Center.
They have a great city dump, too. (At least I THINK it's Ridgecrest.) We
were looking through the pile and found some of those plastic things that
keep the headliner of your car from drooping down -- they were the exact
model we needed.
I shudder to think of the miracle that we traded that for :-(
--
Cheers,
Bev
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Only wimps use tape backup; *real* men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds
Chloe
news:3E694E55...@myrealbox.com...
> They have a great city dump, too. (At least I THINK it's Ridgecrest.) We
> were looking through the pile and found some of those plastic things that
> keep the headliner of your car from drooping down -- they were the exact
> model we needed.
>
> I shudder to think of the miracle that we traded that for :-(
Relax. It was probably nothing more than eternal life or whatever.
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
a very difficult item to obtain. Without it, most no one willl hire you in
DC as they are Gov't classified positions... again, most.
-Mike
"MerryStahel" <merry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030307160319...@mb-fh.aol.com...
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
and still might...
Still Plotting... -Mike
"Caveat" <cav...@poster.com> wrote in message
news:moph6vgdijh4mgdos...@4ax.com...
Frank White
says...
>
>Mike,
>
>Don't be overly concerned with how much money you make. That number alone
>is not the measuring stick from which you can establish a good life,
>financially and otherwise.
This is perfectly true.
Of course you have to make enough to cover the basics like
food, clothing (unless you're a nudist), shelter... But beyond
that, whether you are happy with what you've got or feel that
there is no such thing as 'too much' is a matter of mental
mood and mindset.
>20, 30 and 50 years ago we didn't have to spend money on the following
>Dinner out several times a month, new car's, the latest PC game, the latest
>video game, the latest playstation and nintendo, high speed internet,
>gourmet foods, expensive vacations, the latest fashions, big screen tv's,
Just plain TVs were expensive enough in the 50's. Color TVs
were even worse.
>large homes that have large mortgages and heating bills, we didn't have
>credit card debt, didn't spend money each week for renting new release
>videos.....I could go on and on.
>
>All of the above things are wants, not needs.
So were poodle skirts, "Staying Alive" white suits, 8-tracks,
pet rocks, and lots of other silly things from the past
several decades.
One should not look at the past through rose colored glasses.
It wasn't THAT great a place, filled with sweetness and
light. In fact it could be pretty grim.
So can be living in the country or small towns if things
go wrong or don't work out for you.
FW
DivaM...@webtv.net
was born and raised in, and I adore living here. It's not a little hick
town at all to me, although it would probably seem so to someone used to
the urban life <g> While we may not have as many choices as in a big
city, it's worth the tradeoff to me, since I loathe the crowds, noise,
crime, traffic, etc. of big cities, and would be dreadfully miserable
living in one. I can barely tolerate visiting them LOL!
We have a good community theatre and symphony, wonderful free concerts
by the community college symphonic and jazz bands, musicals and plays
performed at the same college, a community concert subscription series
that brings out-of-town musicians here to perform, a 6-plex movie
theatre, plus a couple of venues, each a mere hour away, that feature
fairly big-name concerts. It's more than enough to make me happy, and
we also have the advantage of only being a couple of hours away from a
major city if we *really* had the urge to go there.
I do love musicals and theatre, and one thing I'd do if I were a
wealthier woman is go to Broadway two or three times a year and catch
several shows. But as it stands, I'm happy to enjoy our considerable
local talent.
Diva
butt...@powerpuff.com
>
> I live in a fairly small town (apx. 16.000 population), the same town I
> was born and raised in,
I grew up in a SMALL town. Population 200. And that's if you count the
dogs and cats. <G> Actually, I grew up a couple miles outside the
town. My Mamaw's family founded the place back about 1822. I find it
sad that my mother was born on one corner, where she lived until her
parents bought the neighboring farm and moved there when she was about
3. She moved away for four years when she got married, then she and my
father bought the family farm from my grandparents, and she moved back
there, and there she remains. The cemetary where she'll be buried is
1/4 mile from where she was born, and 1/4 mile from where she she lives
now.
There's a town of about 14,000 about 10 miles away, but the place has
very little going for it. I hated living in this small town. (I
realize most of that is because of the dysfunctional family that I grew
up in, but this place has too many bad memories for me.) I've always
dreamed of life somewhere close to "civilization", but ended up marrying
a guy who grew up three miles on the other side of the town, although he
was living in Indy at the time. Eight years ago, his dad was dying, so
we moved back to the area to take care of his parents. I love my job
and I dearly love my MIL, so I'm here until she dies, but then I plan to
leave the area.
The only saving grace for this place is that I can be in Bloomington in
40 minutes to have somewhere to shop other than wal-mart, and to go to
museums and to see plays.
CC
butt...@powerpuff.com
>
> I do love musicals and theatre, and one thing I'd do if I were a
> wealthier woman is go to Broadway two or three times a year and catch
> several shows. But as it stands, I'm happy to enjoy our considerable
> local talent.
>
Are there any large four-year colleges near you? I live about 40
minutes from the Bloomington campus of Indiana University, and we get
wonderful plays at the auditorium. Last week, we say "Cats", and went
to "The Music Man" two weeks before that. They may not be the lastest
plays, but since I can't get to Broadway, I love getting the chance to
see them.
CC
MerryStahel
>They have a great city dump, too. (At least I THINK it's Ridgecrest.) We
>were looking through the pile and found some of those plastic things that
>keep the headliner of your car from drooping down -- they were the exact
>model we needed.
Yes, they do. My adopted Dad and my step-Dad went and got about 10 old broken
down bicycles and for Christmas, used all the parts and some spray paint, and
made 5 shiny new green bikes for my sibs and I one year.
People used to routinely go out there and scavenge stuff they needed, all you
had to do was bring a load in, pay whatever the rate was (I think it was 50
cents or a $1) and the owners would let you go through the "usable stuff" pile.
MerryStahel
>This is somewhat true. Most jobs in DC require you to have a Govt Clearance,
>a very difficult item to obtain. Without it, most no one willl hire you in
>DC as they are Gov't classified positions... again, most.
Apply for the job, anyway. Most companies do a Security Clearance check. Even
though DH was retired military, when he hit the civilian world, all 3 companies
he's worked for (and a few he only applied for) did a security check -
contacted our friends and asked for references and such. Many of them state
that you MUST pass a security clearance check not actually have one - that
means they'll do the required check, if they decide to hire you.
The Real Bev
>
> >From: "HisNameWasRobertPaulson" kalis...@hotmail.com
>
> >This is somewhat true. Most jobs in DC require you to have a Govt Clearance,
> >a very difficult item to obtain. Without it, most no one willl hire you in
> >DC as they are Gov't classified positions... again, most.
>
> Apply for the job, anyway. Most companies do a Security Clearance check. Even
> though DH was retired military, when he hit the civilian world, all 3 companies
> he's worked for (and a few he only applied for) did a security check -
> contacted our friends and asked for references and such. Many of them state
> that you MUST pass a security clearance check not actually have one - that
> means they'll do the required check, if they decide to hire you.
Companies are doing security checks now? A decade ago the company just
filled in the forms, the feds did the actual checking after the person was
hired.
--
Cheers,
Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"It doesn't get any easier - you just go faster."
-- Greg Lemond
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
>I have often thought abt moving to a bigger city....
>maybe not a huge city.... but bigger. Hannibal is abt
>18,000...... I always thought a city of say 80,000
>might be a god size....say like Columbia Missouri.
>
>That way it would have a few things such as a Mall.....
>a few movie theaters.... etc.
>
>Anyway......Ive been very interested in this thread....
>reading what others thing of the big vs small city
>thing.
I live in Kamloops, BC. Its population is about 80,000. I moved
out of Vancouver about six years ago. It was too crowded. I lived in
Penticton and Salmon Arm (23K and 15K IIRC). When I first made a trip
from Salmon Arm to Kamloops, I found it crowded. OTOH, I had a co-op
work term in Wuhan, China (4M). Now, I do not care much about size.
There are advantages to each and disadvantages to each. Look for the
good wherever you are.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
MerryStahel
>filled in the forms, the feds did the actual checking after the person was
>hired.
>
Not sure who actually DOES them. DH applied at Lockheed, and they did a check.
He got that job. He then applied at EDS. They did a check. He got that job.
Both companies had representatives who called - we never knew whether they
were contractors, FBI, or whatever - the point is - the COMPANY required the
check, and took the steps to acheive it.
A LOT of the job applications I've been seeing say "MUST pass security
clearance check" - not that you actually have to have one - and THAT was my
point.
Sewmaster
> years.
>
> My husband applied for every technical-type job here for
> which he is qualified. Since he's been a
> programmer/analyst/consultant for over 20 years, doing a
> variety of things, he's well qualified for most anything in
> the PC world and a lot in the mini-computer world (but not
> Cobol on IBM mainframes).
>
> He did not succeed in getting any of the jobs for which he
> is very well qualified.
>
> There aren't many such jobs in rural areas in the first
> place, and there ARE many people who want to live in rural
> areas: this makes many many applicants for each job.
>
> I believe but cannot prove that such jobs are often filled
> in rural areas on the basis of family and friendship
> relationships. Well, I know it, actually.
>
Pat's right. I lived for many years in a rural area.
Any of that type of job always went first to members of
families who'd lived there a long time & had the skills.
Someone like Pat's DH, being a newcomer, wouldn't have been
seriously considered unless there was just no one else
available. Lamentable but true. I had family on staff at
one of the local community colleges & this was discussed in my
presence.
Sewmaster
MerryStahel
>There's a great deal of difference between a private company's
>background security check and a security clearance required by the
>government for prospective employees of a government contractor... The
>private companies just run a check for arrests and/or convictions,
>whereas the government brings in the FBI, which looks into the
>background of the person from birth onwards... The business security
>check can be accomplished within a week... A federal Top Secret
>clearance can take as long as 6 months to compete and is very
>thorough...
Oh yes. I know. However, one of them must have been Fed - they called
EVERYONE and it took some months. Like I said, I don't know WHO does it or why
- I am simply stating - AGAIN, that several of the jobs I've seen on the IT
boards don't say you HAVE to have one - only that you must be able to pass one.
The ONLY point I was trying to make.
Apply for the job, if you know you have no problems with ANY kind of security
clearance.
MikeD
> Actually, city living was a preferable choice for me AFTER retiring.
> We don't do rush-hour traffic anymore, we shop when no one else does,
> and anything needed is a short distance away. Much of the time, we
> walk or bike to get what we need. And there are soooo many options.
City life is my choice for retirement, too. Most of what I
really need is within walking distance or reachable by bus.
I even take the bus to work. It's much cheaper than driving.
My car is 12 years old, and I only use it about once a week,
so I can probably get a few more years out of it. It will
probably be the last one I ever own.
The main trade-off with city living is the cost of real
estate. I bought a small fixer-upper in the midst of the 90s
real estate slump, so I've pretty much minimized that cost.
Also, I'm currently maxing out my mortgage pre-payment
privilege while living very frugally. I'll be mortgage-free
in four years. Then I won't need 40 hours a week, 49 weeks a
year of stressful work. I'll still need some income, but
I'll have more choices when I don't have to seek the maximum
dollar.
The original poster is 25. I wish I had got on this plan at
his age. I'm 45. The hardest part for me is how I cope with
my remaining period of servitude. I'm getting less able to
cope with the stress. And if I'm laid off, getting another
good job might be more difficult. Even if everything works
out according to plan, my life is more than half over unless
I live to be 100.
I wish our young poster every success in getting himself a
real life while he is still young enough to enjoy it.
David
As I write this I am living my Australian Dream - I have a small (just 100 acres) hobby farm
with a few cattle, horses, chooks, emus, birds etc etc - my nearest neighbors are only 2 km
away, the local town 16 km distant, the nearest big town 50 km.
It is peaceful - no traffic (it is a bad traffic day when more than 3 cars pass my gate. I can
grow veges, and flowers, and breed dogs and birds. I can walk the paddocks at night and enjoy
the dark. My house has no locks on the doors.
My regret is that I moved here only 10 years ago - the rest of my 58 years I spent in the big smoke.
Up to age 34 I chased the big dollar - then got some sense - did a social work degree and spent
my time trying to make the world a better place for my passing. Nowdays I don't work for money,
just do probono counselling and enjoy life.
I guess this sounds a bit like gloating - maybe so, but I would love to encourage you to chase
your dream - when I was 25 I had 4 young kids and I regret that I didn't make the move to the
country then so they could have grown up away from the city.
So, I reckon go for it - remember that if you find out the simple country life is NOT for you,
then you can always change track and try another life style.
Best wishes and good luck with your dream
David
>
> On 5 Mar 2003 22:35:20 -0800, kalis...@hotmail.com
> (HisNameWasRobertPaulson) wrote:
>
> >I am considering quiting my high paying Tech job, getting rid of the
> >Acura, and moving to the country or a small town. Most would consider
> >this a good move if I was retiring, but I am only 25 years of age. The
> >issue is, I don't think I can live in this rat race until retirement
> >comes, it seems to much like a waste of my life to be pursuing
> >material goods.
> >Whatever happened to the "American Dream."
> >Whatever that means nowadays, I think is a bunch of crap, and I want
> >out!
David
JoelnCaryn wrote:
>
> My DH has a 210 mile round trip commute. He takes a '93 Mazda with 226K
> mileage on this trip through the desert every day. He has never needed a cell
> phone. He does take water, and a shade tarp.
>
> I suppose carrying a cell is safer than not, but we would have been paying $39
> a month for the past three and a half years to never use the cell phone had he
> had one...
Just out of curiosity, don't they have low cost cell phone plans in the US? You guys usually
have all the high tech stuff much cheaper that we do here in Aussieland, but my mobile phone
costs me $5 a month - travelling in the bush I keep it for emergencies - cheap insurance.
Your guy seems to travel in a very dangerous place - hope all keeps going well.
Had you thought of one of those position locators that hikers and boat people use? Only a few
hundred dollars but travelling in the desert in summer!!!!!!
David
David
As another poster to this thread said "find the right job and it all falls into place" (or
something along those lines)
This is so true - if YOU aren't enjoying your "work" then do something else!!
Without meaning to be too nasty, I guess that your problem is that you are NOT really an artist,
but are trying hard to be one - perhaps you lack the talent, perhaps you lack the personality -
who knows? But I suggest you try something else - something which is not a "hellish process" -
something you ENJOY doing.
Best wishes
David
troika boika wrote:
>
> Look, you have a rather skewed idea of the art world. Art is not
> something you run to in order to escape your "real" job. Art IS A REAL
> JOB!!
> Let me give you a hint, if you talk to any REAL artist,
> they will tell you that creating art is a hellish process, it is not
> "therapeutic" like you amateurs always believe.
>
> troika boika
mike
"David" <djross33REM...@ozemail.com> wrote in message
news:3E6A7DB2...@ozemail.com...
>
>
> JoelnCaryn wrote:
> >
> > My DH has a 210 mile round trip commute. He takes a '93 Mazda with 226K
> > mileage on this trip through the desert every day. He has never needed
a cell
> > phone. He does take water, and a shade tarp.
> >
> > I suppose carrying a cell is safer than not, but we would have been
paying $39
> > a month for the past three and a half years to never use the cell phone
had he
> > had one...
>
> Just out of curiosity, don't they have low cost cell phone plans in the
US? You guys usually
virgin mobile, yep. just got rid of a $33/mo ATT bill, so i figure this
phone will pay for itself in a few months. even better- the reception
(sprint network) is so good i can actually use the phone in my house!
> have all the high tech stuff much cheaper that we do here in Aussieland,
but my mobile phone
> costs me $5 a month - travelling in the bush I keep it for emergencies -
cheap insurance.
>
> Your guy seems to travel in a very dangerous place - hope all keeps going
well.
>
> Had you thought of one of those position locators that hikers and boat
people use? Only a few
> hundred dollars but travelling in the desert in summer!!!!!!
so it can tell you exactly where (latitude/longitude) youre going to die of
dehydration?
>
> David
IleneB
<p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
> Or you could buy an emergency-only cell phone here:
>
> http://www.emergencycellphones.com
Thanks so much for this site, Pat. It's exactly what I need.
Ilene B
JoelnCaryn
>> mileage on this trip through the desert every day. He has never needed a
>cell
>> phone. He does take water, and a shade tarp.
>>
>> I suppose carrying a cell is safer than not, but we would have been paying
>$39
>> a month for the past three and a half years to never use the cell phone had
>he
>> had one...
>
>Just out of curiosity, don't they have low cost cell phone plans in the US?
I don't know. I've never paid attention. I guess I'll check out the website
Pat posted.
>Your guy seems to travel in a very dangerous place - hope all keeps going
>well.
The thing is, it just *sounds* dangerous when I write it down using that
description. How about "My DH commutes from Phoenix to Tucson -- the extremely
busy and well-patrolled stretch of I-10 with a small town every few miles -- in
a well-maintained older car"?
>Had you thought of one of those position locators that hikers and boat people
>use? Only a few
>hundred dollars but travelling in the desert in summer!!!!!!
Oh, we'd know where he was. Somewhere between Phoenix and Tucson on I-10 or
SR87, being passed by about 30 cars and semis every 10 seconds...
MerryStahel
>I've mentioned this site several times before and no one has
>ever said they'd use them before.... I think everyone else
>(but me and thee) has a cell-phone plan already.
And me. Since I don't work - it is pointless to have a cell phone. I go out
on errands with DH or the daughter-still-at-home most times, rarely drive
anywhere myself (I have my other daughter's car here, since September of 2001,
and its on its second tank of gas, in fact, I didn't start it for several
months at all and we had to jump start it to get it running again).
However, I bookmarked the site, Pat, so if I need a cell-phone later, I know
where to get it <G>.
Merry
JoelnCaryn
>ever said they'd use them before.... I think everyone else
>(but me and thee) has a cell-phone plan already.
I don't have a cell plan, obviously, but I'm still not convinced that I need
one. :-)
troika boika
First off, I reread my original post, and I feel that I came across as
too harsh. I apologize. However, I don't apologize about my original
point: art and design are real jobs that require study, training, and
a thick skin.
David, you are wrong. I am an artist, more specifically, a designer. I
attended a top ranked art school. I love the challenges of my chosen
field. I make a very nice salary-no complaints!
What I was merely addressing was the posters casual attitude towards
art. For some reason, many people in this country do not view art as a
profession that requires talent, hard work, and a thick skin. If I had
a dollar for every time someone told me "boy, I wish I had your job"
or "I bet your job is FUN". Somehow, their jobs as accountants,
salespeople, medical personnel(and believe me, I have a LOT of respect
for those in this profession,) corporate lackeys, etc are REAL jobs,
but my job is a FUN job. To add insult to injury, many of them actual
believe they could do my job...easily. Funny, when I worked in Europe,
I did not get this attitude from people. The field of art and design
is respected there, and let me tell you, they are light years ahead of
us in urban planning, architecture,and industrial design.
Now, to address your comment about art being a "hellish" process. My
friend, there have been countless essays written by writers,
musicians, and visual artists stating exactly what I had said...that
creating art is a process where one is consumed with self-doubt.
Creating art is not easy, nor should it be! When I was in college, we
had a (famous and critically acclaimed) writer lecture an audience on
how he hated to sit down to write because he was consumed with
self-doubt. He would procrastinate terribly, he had some funny stories
about what he would do to procrastinate. However, he also
acknowledged that he loved the challenge of wordsmithing, and that he
could never imagining doing anything else. Real artists are
perfectionists, and real artists take their work (but not themselves)
seriously. Ignorance is bliss, for those that think they will escape
out of the rat race and into "the serene and therapeutic" world of
art, they are in for a rude awakening. Look, nobody is not saying that
you cannot enjoy the process of painting, sculpting, drawing, etc! It
DOES have therapeutic use..hence the field of "art therapy". I would
encourage this, in fact, I would encourage that the poster study art
history, see as much art as she/he can, practice, and most
importantly...get critiqued!
troika boika
David
>
> "David" wrote
> >
> > Had you thought of one of those position locators that hikers and boat
> people use? Only a few
> > hundred dollars but travelling in the desert in summer!!!!!!
Then Mike replied
> so it can tell you exactly where (latitude/longitude) youre going to die of
> dehydration?
??????????? You press the button on these - they send out a "I need immediate help" signal which
includes your position, which is picked up by the rescue people - they then know exactly where
you are and that you need emergency help. Then they come and rescue you. Don't you have this
system operating in the US?
David
David
Ahhh here in Aussieland when we say "driving in the desert" this means you are way out in the
desert - no roads, just sand dunes and tracks that can get covered by blown sand - if you break
down or get lost you can die - people often do. Maybe no towns for 1000km. No one with any
sense goes out there without reliable communications gear - except for stupid tourists, and they
are usually (but not exclusively) the ones that die.
I wasn't thinking that he was on the blacktop with other vehicles passing regularly
David
David wrote
> >Your guy seems to travel in a very dangerous place - hope all keeps going
> >well.
JoelnCaryn replied:
David
Ahh maybe I was too harsh with you.
However, I note you say you are a designer - I freely admit I know little about art but to me an
artist is someone who paints or sculpts - what they do is create what they want to create.
A designer, however, is a very different kettle of fish - they may have to design what OTHERS
want - eg design me a new car body, a new dress for the ball, a new package for soap powder. In
this case you are under pressure to come up with the goods - a very different situation from the
artist who paints what they choose or sculpts from buits of metal or stone.
An artist does not NEED to be skilled - look at Blue Poles, or Picasso or some of the other
crappy stuff people paint and sell - whereas I would agree that a designer must have skills. It
might be nice if the artist had skills, but they can do quite well without them. The artist can
work if they want to - the designer has to work.
David
troika boika wrote:
>
> First off, I reread my original post, and I feel that I came across as
> too harsh. I apologize. However, I don't apologize about my original
> point: art and design are real jobs that require study, training, and
> a thick skin.
>
> David, you are wrong. I am an artist, more specifically, a designer. I
> attended a top ranked art school. I love the challenges of my chosen
> field. I make a very nice salary-no complaints!
>
> troika boika
Caveat
wrote:
>>I've mentioned this site several times before and no one has
>>ever said they'd use them before.... I think everyone else
>>(but me and thee) has a cell-phone plan already.
>
>I don't have a cell plan, obviously, but I'm still not convinced that I need
>one. :-)
Me neither. (But everyone knows that Zonies are an independent lot.)
Free and proud.
Caveat
JoelnCaryn
>
Why else would we have gone for Forbes in the primaries and then Clinton in the
general? :-)
BTW, email me if you want tickets for an April concert with Tchaik 4 on the
program.
john...@yahoo.com
>college town.
I agree abt living in a college town.... altho I do not
at the current moment.
But what advantages do YOU think a college town
affords?
john...@yahoo.com
Where at Diva?
Just curious....
MerryStahel
>But what advantages do YOU think a college town
>affords?
>
Lots of activities they sponser for the kids, but which other folk can take
advantage of - games, concerts, plays, dance troupes, the Lippizaner stallions,
career fairs, charity drives, comedy (we went to see Maria Bramford for free 2
nights ago), movies, tutors, classes you've always wanted to take, but never
took the time because they were "frivolous" and so on.
Most colleges offer non-credit classes - fun things like making a dulcimer,
photography, local wildlife and flora/fuana courses, pottery and so on.
Colleges attract students, but they also attract "events."
MerryStahel
Since you're looking for the perfect small town - check out Stillwater,
Oklahoma.
Home of OSU - a land grant university, which means the town will not grow much
bigger due to the fact that the college owns most of the land around town and
around the lakes.
An hour from OKC, 2 hours from Tulsa.
Because its farm country, AND a college town - there are a lot of "deals" to be
had - locally grown produce, a decent feed and mill, a fantastic Goodwill store
in OKC, and lots to see and do around the area (historic Guthrie is about 45
minutes away, there's a small theme park, Tulsa has an annual Pow-Wow, 45th
Infantry Museum, Cherokee Strip Museum, Sod House Museum, Washington Irving
Museum, MANY little museums in and around the area - within an hour's drive and
so on).
My sister lives there, and when our nieces from Germany came to visit - her and
I took them somewhere nearly EVERY day for 6 weeks and most of it was free -
museums, natural attractions, the theme park and so on.
Rolling hills - cold winters but not much snow, hot summers, and a good growing
season. The town is 50,000 people or thereabouts, and swells to 100,000 when
college is in session.
OKC is not as nice, IMHO - but it does have some nice out-lying areas and
they've restored the downtown area (actually still working on it) - and made it
somewhat like the Riverwalk in San Antonio Texas.
Guthrie looks like an old Western town on the main drag, full of antique shops
and some restored old West shops.
Now, my DH thinks Stillwater is OK (for a hick town) but he'd NEVER live there.
He's only been to visit a few times, never went to any of the attractions and
besides, he's a city slicker.
I happen to think its kewl. I'd rather live closer to Tulsa, actually - around
Broken Arrow, more country, but still close enough to the city to find the
amenities I need, if I want them.
john...@yahoo.com
OK Merry.....agree with you
Reason I want to live in a college town is.... so that
at the age of 45 I can go back to school.<G>
I hear that there are MANY adults n college now days.
True?
Dennis
wrote:
>>Me neither. (But everyone knows that Zonies are an independent lot.)
>>
>
>Why else would we have gone for Forbes in the primaries and then Clinton in the
>general? :-)
Maybe it was another case of South Florida syndrome.
(Hmm, hot sunny weather, lots of retirees...hmm... ;-)
the Dennis formerly known as (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
JoelnCaryn
I was very surprised to realize that I've only seen one case of egregrious
snowbird all winter long. They're just such a small fraction now in comparison
to the year-round residents that it doesn't seem to have affected me. :-)
We used to have lots of military retirees (heck, that's why I live here in the
first place) but as I live in the East Valley, and Williams has been closed for
a decade, we tend not to notice that so much any more either.
MerryStahel
>I hear that there are MANY adults n college now days.
>True?
Absolutely. In fact, one of my daughter's evening classes was almost all older
folk (in her eyes, anyone over 30). One was "Dad's age, Mom!" DH is 52 <G>.
A lot of colleges also have evening classes now, so working folk can attend.
john...@yahoo.com
>
>Merry
Well thanks for all your advice.
Im seriously thinking of going back at the age of 44
The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was not
going to college as soon as I got out of highs school
in 1976
IleneB
<merry...@aol.com> wrote:
> However, I bookmarked the site, Pat, so if I need a cell-phone later, I know
> where to get it
I called them today, and the recording said they've had so much
traffic, they'd have to get back to me.
Ilene B
Elaine Jackson
>troika boika wrote:
>> Look, you have a rather skewed idea of the art world. Art is not
>> something you run to in order to escape your "real" job. Art IS A REAL JOB!!
>>
>> Let me give you a hint, if you talk to any REAL artist,
>> they will tell you that creating art is a hellish process, it is not
>> "therapeutic" like you amateurs always believe.
And Dave from Oz <djross33REM...@ozemail.com> replied:
>troika, you sound bitter - perhaps art is not for you.
>
>As another poster to this thread said "find the right job and it all falls
>into place" (or something along those lines)
>
>This is so true - if YOU aren't enjoying your "work" then do something else!!
Troika, I think Dave is right.
Some data points: For more than six years, I've been reading an a very
busy e-list for/by several dozen fabric artists .They are real artists, people
who exhibit in galleries, sell substantial amounts of their work, and win major
prizes. Some support themselves selling their art. (Additionally, there at
least seven hundred of us lurkers who aren't artists, but who do love fabrics,
talking to the real artists, learning from each other, and hanging out with a
congenial group.)
*None* of the artists on that list has *ever* complained about the pain of
creation or suffering for art. There are lots of complains that life/the dayjob
interferes with their spending every waking minute working on their art. Or
someone complains that the very last scrap of some material or object they need
is gone. Or that working until 3:00AM and then going to the dayjob is a pita.
Etc.
There are only two serious complaints: there's never enough time for
family, friends, work, life, and their art, so they have to severely budget the
time they spend on family, friend, work, and life, and b) that they're
constantly bombarded by new ideas for new work, and they'd need to live forever
to use them all.
BTW, you remark that "Art IS A REAL JOB!! " I'd like to add,
Art IS REAL PLAY. Real artists have repeatedly told me so.
Elaine J
troika boika
> Yes, they do. My adopted Dad and my step-Dad went and got about 10 old broken
> down bicycles and for Christmas, used all the parts and some spray paint, and
> made 5 shiny new green bikes for my sibs and I one year.
>
>
> Merry
>
What a wonderful story! How creative of your "two dads". Call me a
sap, but this is such a heartwarming Christmas tale. Anyhow, thanks
for sharing(-:
troika boika
HisNameWasRobertPaulson
I know small town life is what I want. To be honest, It has been
everything that I have wanted since I left my hometown smalltown.
I am in the process of getting rid of ALL my debt, once complete, and
I have some money saved up,and a meager job secure, I will leave the
city.
City dwellers can have all thier problems, I'll be sipping ice tea.
By the way, which province or territory do you live in???
-Mike
David <djross33REM...@ozemail.com> wrote in message news:<3E6A794F...@ozemail.com>...
=truncated
DivaM...@webtv.net
Northern California.
Diva
Gene Wirchenko
>On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:21:28 GMT, john...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>Colleges attract students, but they also attract "events."
>>
>>OK Merry.....agree with you
>>
>>Reason I want to live in a college town is.... so that
>>at the age of 45 I can go back to school.<G>
I am 42. I have gone back for formal credentials, but while I am
there, to learn.
>>I hear that there are MANY adults n college now days.
>>True?
>
>Yes, many. I worked at a university for ten years from 1988
>- 1998. Many many adult students.
>
>I want to tell you that the adult students were *almost
>always* very nervous about going back to school and their
>ability to do well.
Agreed.
>The adult students *almost always* do, in fact, very, very
>well - the faculty joked that they were kind of students who
>pushed the curve off the edge of the page...
Some, yes. Quite. We have life skills to apply.
In my case, I have previous experience in my field, and I
integrate what I know and what I am learning. It is a formidable
combination.
I have even inadvertantly terrorised some of my instructors. It
is rather difficult to slip something past me, and I will not let such
get by. One of my instructors specifically wrote a final exam
question to cover one of the points I had objected to previously. He
had challenged me to give an example to back up my claim: I gave him
two.
>I think that what adults lose in sheer ease of memorization
>is more than compensated for by additional maturity and the
>additional understanding they have of life in general.
It is particularly noticeable in the Management Issues course
that I am taking. I have lived through many things that make suitable
case examples. I have also seen long-term trends firsthand.
In one report in my first-semester hardware course, we were in
teams of three to write a report on three systems. One subreport was
on a modern system, and two were on older systems. I picked an older
system, the Sol-20, which I had heard of, but never actually seen (and
I still have not). My subreport was about as long as the other two
combined, and better organised to boot. The other older system was
the Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I. I had owned one! I caught a number
of errors in the draft.
>Adult students are much more apt to study throughout the
>semester rather than waiting until the last week, etc.
>Adults are not as apt to stay out drinking and partying all
>night the night before an exam.
True.
>I think adults are also more apt to go to help sessions, or
>question the professors when they don't understand something
>- this helps them too. In general, the adult students just
Quite. I have seen cases where I was probably the only student
in the room who understood. I could feel the incomprehension, but
none of them would ask.
I ask plenty of questions, and I am not scared to admit that I do
not know. I was talking with the instructor of one of my English
courses about some of the niceties of a written report. I remarked
that I lacked common sense in the area. She was taken aback. She was
not expecting that sort of comment. I pointed out that she knew the
stuff--it was her area--but that I did not. Many things that she
could easily figure out, I could not without difficulty, yet.
>take the whole thing more seriously than most of the young
>students.
Quite. Deadly serious. If I mess up this chance, I may never
get another. I am going to get through my program through any number
of dead bodies (if necessary). I do not except mine from that.
>Time after time, I've seen adult students really scared -
>and then wind up getting all As, or mostly As and a few Bs.
It is not all roses, but there appear to be few slackers in the
older age group. Actually, I can not recall any older students
slackers in my classes. Some of them could not handle the program--it
is quite tough--but they were not slackers. The younger students
include some very studious ones and the vast majority of the slackers.
Older students, do not sell yourself short. Do not get
overconfident, but do not deny the skills that you already have.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Gene Wirchenko
>John said:
>
>>I hear that there are MANY adults n college now days.
>>True?
>
>Absolutely. In fact, one of my daughter's evening classes was almost all older
>folk (in her eyes, anyone over 30). One was "Dad's age, Mom!" DH is 52 <G>.
In my program, the department chair and one of my instructors are
married. They have worked with the program for about twenty years.
Their son is now in the program. Today, we had C++ class with a
couple examples of strings containing "Hi Mom!". After class, I
remarked to the instructor that it was going to be interesting when
those examples were used when her son got to that class.
>A lot of colleges also have evening classes now, so working folk can attend.
Mine is starting with weekend classes. There are not too many
courses right now, but they are planning to expand.