Walmart Prices: Urban vs Rural?
Jonathan Grobe
rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
managers have in pricing?
--
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Jim Elbrecht
>Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
>rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
>managers have in pricing?
It appears to me - and I don't spend a lot of time shopping at
Walmart- that each store has some cheaper and more expensive items.
I'd call the 3 that I occasionally shop at 'suburban'.
Jim
enigma
news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
> rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
> managers have in pricing?
i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i can
say that they most likely have "zone pricing" for various
stores, depending on their location. it doesn't so much have
to do with suburban vs rural, but with the various local
economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5 "zones", or
pricing levels.
individual store managers would have very little leeway in
adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able to
price match a competitor, but they couldn't make the price
lower than the competition. they couldn't match an online
price, only a local competitor. they would need district
manager approval to price match a differently zoned Wal-Mart,
& that would be unlikely unless the other store was within 50
miles or so.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.
Dean Hoffman
> Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote in
> news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
>
>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
>> rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
>> managers have in pricing?
>
> i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i can
> say that they most likely have "zone pricing" for various
> stores, depending on their location. it doesn't so much have
> to do with suburban vs rural, but with the various local
> economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5 "zones", or
> pricing levels.
> individual store managers would have very little leeway in
> adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able to
> price match a competitor, but they couldn't make the price
> lower than the competition. they couldn't match an online
> price, only a local competitor. they would need district
> manager approval to price match a differently zoned Wal-Mart,
> & that would be unlikely unless the other store was within 50
> miles or so.
> lee
>
Does the internet affect such things? I've never really compared
internet pricing to the local stores.
Our local farmer's coop prices their gas according to the town the
station is in. It probably has 8 or 10 of the self serve card stations
scattered around the area.
Dean
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Ann
> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and rural Walmarts?
There is a rural Walmart Super Center 10 miles south and one 20 miles
north that I think is actually a little smaller. It's not seriously urban
but is in a shopping center that also has a Home Depot. I've never seen a
price on a food item at the local store that's less than at the "urban"
one. The biggest difference in price is on items in the frozen food cases
and bread - about 10-15% higher locally. I don't know if it's as much
urban vs rural as it is that the local store has little competition.
> How
> much latitude do individual store managers have in pricing?
I have zero factual basis for this, but I doubt store managers have much -
if any - say on pricing.
There is an interesting thing that has been progressing for about a year
in the local store's cat food dept. Walmart's prices on brand name food
had been lower than those at supermarkets in the nearest small city,
except when the supermarkets had sales. About a year ago, brand name shelf
space at Walmart began shrinking, replaced by more of Walmart's store
brand. Prices went up to about the same as at the supermarkets. Now
Walmart everyday prices are roughly on average 15% higher.
My point being that Walmart apparently sometimes intentionally prices high
to shift customers to buying a lower priced but more profitable line. Imo
those decisions are made at the corporate rather than local manager level.
Ann
> enigma wrote:
>> Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote in
>> news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
>>
>>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and rural Walmarts? How
>>> much latitude do individual store managers have in pricing?
>>
>> i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i can say that
>> they most likely have "zone pricing" for various stores, depending on
>> their location. it doesn't so much have to do with suburban vs rural,
>> but with the various local economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5
>> "zones", or pricing levels.
>> individual store managers would have very little leeway in
>> adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able to price
>> match a competitor, but they couldn't make the price lower than the
>> competition. they couldn't match an online price, only a local
>> competitor. they would need district manager approval to price match a
>> differently zoned Wal-Mart, & that would be unlikely unless the other
>> store was within 50 miles or so.
>> lee
>>
>>
> Does the internet affect such things? I've never really compared
> internet pricing to the local stores.
A lot of what Walmart sells - like small kitchen appliances - just aren't
worth comparison shopping for online. It's much easier to just pop it
into the cart while grocery shopping, knowing you aren't going to get
stung too bad and that it will be almost as easy to bring it back if it's
defective or you change your mind.
Dave
"Ann" <nntp...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.08.24....@epix.net...
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:49:29 +0000, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
>
>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and rural Walmarts?
>
> There is a rural Walmart Super Center 10 miles south and one 20 miles
> north that I think is actually a little smaller. It's not seriously urban
> but is in a shopping center that also has a Home Depot. I've never seen a
> price on a food item at the local store that's less than at the "urban"
> one. The biggest difference in price is on items in the frozen food cases
> and bread - about 10-15% higher locally. I don't know if it's as much
> urban vs rural as it is that the local store has little competition.
There are four walmarts near us, three of them are supercenters. One
supercenter is in a RURAL area and it has the highest prices of the four.
I'm betting it's like you said, no local competition. In the case of the
rural supercenter, there is like literally nowhere else to shop. (for food
or anything else, unless you drive a half hour) We do shop at that one
occasionally as we have other business in the area and to get to anywhere
else to shop would be quite a drive, FROM THERE. We're always surprised at
the prices of the stuff we normally buy, typically about 20-30% higher at
this rural supercenter. The other three are definitely urban, and the
prices are cheaper than the rural one, and the prices are identical (among
the urban ones).
On a side note, I MUCH prefer to shop at Target, both for better quality
merchandise and usually priced competitively with Wal-Mart. The other huge
advantage Target has is, it's hardly ever over-crowded (whereas wal-mart is
always over-crowded). MUCH more relaxing to shop at Target. I just wish
they'd have built a "super" target near us. If we had a super target, I'd
probably never set foot in a wal-mart. But then, we get most of our
groceries at a local supermarket (not wal-mart or target) now. -Dave
enigma
news:1219540138_608@isp.n:
>
> Does the internet affect such things? I've never
> really compared
> internet pricing to the local stores.
well, since Wal-Mart contracts for the lowest prices with
their suppliers, the goods sold in the store are made, well,
cheaper. for things like toasters, it's not too big a deal
(assuming you realize a $9 toaster will crap out in less than
a year), but for bigger ticket items like TVs or computers,
what you get at Wal-Mart & what you can find elsewhere (Sears,
online) are entirely different items. even items with the same
code are substantially different in quality & features between
Wal-Mart & other places... which is why one should compare
features rather than price.
> Our local farmer's coop prices their gas according to
> the town the
> station is in. It probably has 8 or 10 of the self serve
> card stations scattered around the area.
i've noticed that as well here. some towns are way less
expensive for gas (4-9 cents/gallon). when i see that in NY i
understand it's because of the taxes there, state, county &
town can all throw in their own taxes, but in NH it's just one
of those weird things. gas in my town is $3.69/gal today. in
Epsom it's $3.65 & in Chichester it's $3.63...
Jeff
> Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote in
> news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
>
>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
>> rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
>> managers have in pricing?
>
> i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i can
> say that they most likely have "zone pricing" for various
> stores, depending on their location. it doesn't so much have
> to do with suburban vs rural, but with the various local
> economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5 "zones", or
> pricing levels.
> individual store managers would have very little leeway in
> adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able to
> price match a competitor, but they couldn't make the price
> lower than the competition.
Some Walmarts may have more flexibility. I've see that in particular in
a Walmart that had a Target open up across the street.
Jeff
Ken
news:pan.2008.08.24....@epix.net:
> There is an interesting thing that has been progressing for about a
> year in the local store's cat food dept. Walmart's prices on brand
> name food had been lower than those at supermarkets in the nearest
> small city, except when the supermarkets had sales. About a year ago,
> brand name shelf space at Walmart began shrinking, replaced by more of
> Walmart's store brand. Prices went up to about the same as at the
> supermarkets. Now Walmart everyday prices are roughly on average 15%
> higher.
>
The produce prices at the Wal-Mart I go to are much higher than the
supermarket I go to (Food City). For example, I bought three green
pappers at Food City last week for $0.99. I was in Wal-Mart yesterday and
green peppers were $0.88 each. Much the same for other produce items.
Oddly, the other prices - like canned goods and meat - are about 50%
higher at Food City.
Ken
--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner
Dave
> The produce prices at the Wal-Mart I go to are much higher than the
> supermarket I go to (Food City). For example, I bought three green
> pappers at Food City last week for $0.99. I was in Wal-Mart yesterday and
> green peppers were $0.88 each. Much the same for other produce items.
> Oddly, the other prices - like canned goods and meat - are about 50%
> higher at Food City.
>
> Ken
Holy Crap, Food City must be outrageously expensive...are they owned by
Whole Paycheck, errrr Whole Foods, perhaps?
Canned goods seem reasonable at Wal-Mart, but the meat is a good 50% more
expensive than even the most expensive supermarket in the area, and I
consider THEIR (the supermarket's) prices on meat to be outrageously high.
And the deli stuff at wal-mart? You'd think it was made of gold or
ilver. -Dave
enigma
news:7YOdnZ6T_r1e7yzV...@earthlink.com:
> enigma wrote:
>> Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote in
>> news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
>>
>>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
>>> rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
>>> managers have in pricing?
>>
>> i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i
>> can say that they most likely have "zone pricing" for
>> various stores, depending on their location. it doesn't so
>> much have to do with suburban vs rural, but with the
>> various local economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5
>> "zones", or pricing levels.
>> individual store managers would have very little leeway
>> in
>> adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able
>> to price match a competitor, but they couldn't make the
>> price lower than the competition.
>
> Some Walmarts may have more flexibility. I've see that in
> particular in a Walmart that had a Target open up across
> the street.
um, that falls under price matching a competitor...
Sheldon
> "Ann" <nntpm...@epix.net> wrote in message
Most Target products can be purchased for less from Amazon.com Not
only that but the products are shipped directly from a Target
warehouse... often the individual stores don't have the exact product
when you get there but buying on line you get exactly what you choose,
and delivered right to your door, and most are free shipping and even
if you pay shipping it's nowhere near the cost of driving your own
vehical.
Ann
> target) now. -Dave-
The nearest (25 miles) Target has been open about a year and is in the
same retail area as a medium size shopping center, Sam's Club, Lowes, Best
Buy, etc. Also, recently opened large Walmart and Circuit City stores. I
had been looking forward to Target but have only been there once because
I've been avoiding the major highway/retail construction. Now most of the
that is done, I expect to shop Target more. I do most of my grocery
shopping at supermarkets about 20 miles away. But my local Walmart will
probably remain my fall-back for non-food items because it's so
convenient.
Dave
>only that but the products are shipped directly from a Target
>warehouse... often the individual stores don't have the exact product
>when you get there but buying on line you get exactly what you choose,
>and delivered right to your door, and most are free shipping and even
>if you pay shipping it's nowhere near the cost of driving your own
>vehical.
Good to know. Sometimes I'm under a time restraint, though. I work on the
road (OTR truck driver). Sometimes I'm only home a day or two and need
something now, before I hit the road again (because it's not available at
truck stops, or wicked expensive to buy at a truck stop). For these
occasions, it's tough to beat the Target retail store. But certainly, if I
had time, I'd do almost all my shopping online. -Dave
Ann
> Dean Hoffman <""dh0496\"@ine$br#as&ka.com"> wrote in
> news:1219540138_608@isp.n:
>
>
>> Does the internet affect such things? I've never really compared
>> internet pricing to the local stores.
>
> well, since Wal-Mart contracts for the lowest prices with
> their suppliers, the goods sold in the store are made, well, cheaper. for
> things like toasters, it's not too big a deal (assuming you realize a $9
> toaster will crap out in less than a year), but for bigger ticket items
> like TVs or computers, what you get at Wal-Mart & what you can find
> elsewhere (Sears, online) are entirely different items. even items with
> the same code are substantially different in quality & features between
> Wal-Mart & other places... which is why one should compare features rather
> than price.
I've heard that, but I'm not convinced that a TV bought at Walmart isn't
the same as a TV (with the same manufacturer's model number on the TV ID
plate) bought at another store. I've not shopped for electronics at
Walmart, but have at Sam's Club. What they will sometimes do is have
items boxed for sale there that have fewer accessories. For example, a
Samsung surveillance system that normally includes 4 cameras was sold at
Sam's Club with 3 cameras.
A good thing to do is check the manufacturer's website, the support pages
in particular. If they don't list an item with that model number, it's a
good bet that it's a retailer's version that won't be supported by the
manufacturer.
Ann
The #1 reason I'm glad I'm not stuck having to shop the local Walmart for
groceries is the poor produce quality. I usually grocery shop every 10-14
days so I want produce that's as fresh as reasonable, buying at a store.
Walmart is my preferred store for two items, Jalapeno peppers and bulk
mushrooms. <g>
I do wish they sold green peppers by the lb because often the smaller ones
are the more durable looking. Walmart does get points for the $.88 peaches
they had last week. Usually when I buy peaches, they have two states,
hard as a baseball and rotten. And they somehow transition overnight.
These were good tasting peaches that lasted several days.
Ken
news:g8rukd$jac$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
Food City is owned by Basha's, a western chain. Mostly oriented towards
Hispanic clientel.
I don't buy deli stuff and rarely meat - then usually fresh chicken parts
or sometimes a whole one or frozen ground turkey. Bacon, ham hocks or
sausage once in a while.
There's another expensive chain here, Albertson. I almost never go there
unless I can't find what I want elsewhere. Like whole wheat lasagna pasta
a few days ago. They have the best selection of stuff in town.
SPAM@verizon.net Anthony Diodati
"Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g8rukd$jac$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>
> Canned goods seem reasonable at Wal-Mart, but the meat is a good 50% more
> expensive than even the most expensive supermarket in the area, and I
> consider THEIR (the supermarket's) prices on meat to be outrageously high.
> And the deli stuff at wal-mart? You'd think it was made of gold or
Yeah, there Deli is out of sight too!
Tony
rick++
(day after thanksgiving) do notice prices are
different by location.
SPAM@verizon.net Anthony Diodati
"rick++" <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:86489ae2-86be-47fc...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> The people that compile "Black Friday" prices
> (day after thanksgiving) do notice prices are
> different by location.
A little OT here, but another store that (I think at least) used to have
good prices, and has gotten high is Lowes.
Tony
D&SW
"enigma" <eni...@evil.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B045DE656EB...@199.125.85.9...
Dave
>
> A little OT here, but another store that (I think at least) used to have
> good prices, and has gotten high is Lowes.
> Tony
Yup. Compared to just about any local hardware store, too. You know, the
mom and pop type places with good service still? -Dave
Jeff
> Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in
> news:7YOdnZ6T_r1e7yzV...@earthlink.com:
>
>> enigma wrote:
>>> Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote in
>>> news:slrngb14vp...@worf.netins.net:
>>>
>>>> Does Walmart have the same prices in its urban and
>>>> rural Walmarts? How much latitude do individual store
>>>> managers have in pricing?
>>> i don't shop at Wal-Mart, but as an ex-retail manager, i
>>> can say that they most likely have "zone pricing" for
>>> various stores, depending on their location. it doesn't so
>>> much have to do with suburban vs rural, but with the
>>> various local economies. most retail companies have 3 to 5
>>> "zones", or pricing levels.
>>> individual store managers would have very little leeway
>>> in
>>> adjusting prices in their store. they would likely be able
>>> to price match a competitor, but they couldn't make the
>>> price lower than the competition.
>> Some Walmarts may have more flexibility. I've see that in
>> particular in a Walmart that had a Target open up across
>> the street.
>
> um, that falls under price matching a competitor...
>
beating...
> lee
divorcedda...@gmail.com
Jonathan,
The answer is a solid "yes"-- Wal-Mart uses geographic pricing. Shop
the "country" stores. Check out my recent post on this topic:
http://www.divorceddadfrugaldad.com/
DDFD
catalpa
In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different gas prices. In
the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in the West part of Trenton $3.51.
A couple of miles more to the East out of Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a
couple of miles more to the West out of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
Neon John
>In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different gas prices. In
>the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in the West part of Trenton $3.51.
>A couple of miles more to the East out of Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a
>couple of miles more to the West out of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
Does Joesy still have the prohibition against self-serve?
A friend who owns a decent sized chain of C-stores once told me that in areas
where there is a powerful fuel dealer's association, gas prices vary little.
The association disciplines dealers who "get out of line". Conversely, in
areas where the price varies widely over a small area, that is an indication
that there is either no dealer's association or else a toothless one.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I don't speak Stupid so do speak slowly.
enigma
news:KP6dnYWIBbd3ni_V...@earthlink.com:
by what? their standard penny less?
it's unlikely they'd even have to do that, because, IME,
Wal-Mart shoppers don't even bother to price check other
stores. they just swallow the "Always Low Prices" line... and
in many rural areas, there *is* no other store to price match
because Wal-Mart is the only game left in town. lee
enigma
news:wQrsk.720$w51.696@trnddc01:
> In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different
> gas prices. In the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in
> the West part of Trenton $3.51. A couple of miles more to
> the East out of Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a couple of
> miles more to the West out of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
there are 3 gas stations in my town, Irving, Shell & Mobil.
Irving & Shell tend to be the same price. if Irving lowers
their price, Shell will usually lower theirs to match within a
few hours. Mobil, OTOH, is *always* at least .04 cents higher,
& sometimes as much as .07. i don't know why people even buy
there if high prices are so horrible. you'd think they'd be
looking to save those pennies...
two weeks ago when i was in NY gas was almost .20/gallon
higher than here in NH, but NY has better roads. gas taxes at
work ;)
Neon John
>by what? their standard penny less?
>it's unlikely they'd even have to do that, because, IME,
>Wal-Mart shoppers don't even bother to price check other
>stores. they just swallow the "Always Low Prices" line... and
>in many rural areas, there *is* no other store to price match
>because Wal-Mart is the only game left in town. lee
I guess I'm one of those folks. I shop at Wallyworld for most of my food
because a) they ALWAYS have what I want in stock, b) on average they're
cheaper than surrounding stores and c) wasting gas to drive to another store
to save a nickel doesn't make sense to me.
I've tried the other local stores. Either they don't stock what I want,
demand that I use one of those affinity cards to get the advertised price and
are usually higher even with the affinity card.
Some things I don't buy at Wallyworld. Meat, for example. Sorry and
overpriced. Sam's Club, OTOH, carries IBP's "choice plus" which is
indistinguishable from the low end of prime.
For choice grade meat on the cheap, Save-A-Lot is hard to beat. They're
rapacious on their chicken prices, though. The store in Athens, about 20
miles away is about half the price of the Tellico SAL so about 4 times a year
I drive over and buy a whole freezer full. I need to sit down and see if it
would pay me to drive a bit farther to the nearest restaurant wholesale
distributor and buy meat in case lots.
I'll go to that trouble if I can save $50 or $100 bucks. But I won't do like
a neighbor who'll drive 10 extra miles to save $5. For most stuff, Wallyworld
is close enough to being the cheapest that it's not worth the gas nor the
hassle of looking elsewhere.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -Darwin
Dave
> Irving & Shell tend to be the same price. if Irving lowers
> their price, Shell will usually lower theirs to match within a
> few hours. Mobil, OTOH, is *always* at least .04 cents higher,
> & sometimes as much as .07. i don't know why people even buy
> there if high prices are so horrible. you'd think they'd be
> looking to save those pennies...
When gas gets up to ~$4/gallon or more, a few pennies per gallon doesn't
make that much difference. If you're going to spend ~$60 or more to fill
your tank, is it worth it to bypass the nearest station to save less than a
buck? Not really. At close to $4 per gallon, being within say 25 cents of
each other actually means that all the stations in the area are the same
price.
>
> two weeks ago when i was in NY gas was almost .20/gallon
> higher than here in NH, but NY has better roads. gas taxes at
> work ;)
I used to live in NH. I currently live in NY, and still visit NH
frequently. NH roads are in MUCH better shape than NY roads. So I have no
idea where the extra tax money is going, but it's not going into maintaining
the roads here. -Dave
enigma
news:g8ue6k$3m9$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>> there are 3 gas stations in my town, Irving, Shell &
>> Mobil. Irving & Shell tend to be the same price. if Irving
>> lowers their price, Shell will usually lower theirs to
>> match within a few hours. Mobil, OTOH, is *always* at
>> least .04 cents higher, & sometimes as much as .07. i
>> don't know why people even buy there if high prices are so
>> horrible. you'd think they'd be looking to save those
>> pennies...
>
> When gas gets up to ~$4/gallon or more, a few pennies per
> gallon doesn't make that much difference. If you're going
> to spend ~$60 or more to fill your tank, is it worth it to
> bypass the nearest station to save less than a buck? Not
> really. At close to $4 per gallon, being within say 25
> cents of each other actually means that all the stations in
> the area are the same price.
in my case the nearest station is the Shell, which also has
the most convenient entrance/exit set up. they're also the
source the MBTE in my well... (formerly. now i probably have
ethanol in my well), but in order to go shopping i have to
drive through Chichester, past the Hess & X-press stations
with the lowest prices in the area anyway, so i only get gas
at the Shell station when i'm running on fumes.
>> two weeks ago when i was in NY gas was almost .20/gallon
>> higher than here in NH, but NY has better roads. gas taxes
>> at work ;)
>
> I used to live in NH. I currently live in NY, and still
> visit NH frequently. NH roads are in MUCH better shape
> than NY roads. So I have no idea where the extra tax money
> is going, but it's not going into maintaining the roads
> here.
we must have different definitions of better roads :)
i have never seen the levels of potholes & lack of
maintainance on NY roads that i see here.
it could have to do with what part of NY you're talking about
as well. it's a much larger state than NH, & i'm sure road
maintainance varies by county as well. i'm most familiar with
Wayne, Oswego, Monroe, and Chautauqua.
AL
> In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different gas prices. In
> the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in the West part of Trenton $3.51.
> A couple of miles more to the East out of Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a
> couple of miles more to the West out of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
What this country needs is an old fashion gas war - man, that was back
when life was good...
Around here there is a "convenience" chain called Casey's. They have a
nifty trick at the pump $3.65 for premium, $3.75 for regular unleaded.
Unwary customers (me) assuming premium costs more simply press the 87
button out of habit instead of the 90 button. Buyer beware is their motto.
Dave
>
> in my case the nearest station is the Shell, which also has
> the most convenient entrance/exit set up. they're also the
> source the MBTE in my well... (formerly. now i probably have
> ethanol in my well), but in order to go shopping i have to
> drive through Chichester, past the Hess & X-press stations
> with the lowest prices in the area anyway, so i only get gas
> at the Shell station when i'm running on fumes.
You might want to re-think that. I had one car that ran NOTICEABLY better
on Shell gasoline...engine was smoother, seemed to have more power. AND,
when I refilled (after filling with Shell) I always found that my MPG had
gone up slightly while the fuel in the tank was (mostly Shell). I'd be
inclined to stop at a Shell station now, even if they were a bit more
expensive.
> we must have different definitions of better roads :)
> i have never seen the levels of potholes & lack of
> maintainance on NY roads that i see here.
> it could have to do with what part of NY you're talking about
> as well. it's a much larger state than NH, & i'm sure road
> maintainance varies by county as well. i'm most familiar with
> Wayne, Oswego, Monroe, and Chautauqua.
>
> lee
I'm somewhat familiar with the general area you live in. I can understand
why you would think NH roads aren't well maintained. :) -Dave
Dave
"jdoe" <jd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:l8g5b453esf6fdiur...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:05:10 -0400, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
>
>
>>I used to live in NH. I currently live in NY, and still visit NH
>>frequently. NH roads are in MUCH better shape than NY roads. So I have
>>no
>>idea where the extra tax money is going, but it's not going into
>>maintaining
>>the roads here. -Dave
> in NY much of the taxes collected from gas sales are diverted from
> highway use to fund mass transit around NYC and other cities in the
> state
That figures. -Dave
Dave
> Around here there is a "convenience" chain called Casey's. They have a
> nifty trick at the pump $3.65 for premium, $3.75 for regular unleaded.
> Unwary customers (me) assuming premium costs more simply press the 87
> button out of habit instead of the 90 button. Buyer beware is their motto.
There is a myth that higher octane fuel is better, or has more power, than
lower octane fuel. Quite the opposite is true. Lower octane fuel burns
easier, giving you more energy output per gallon. So why is the myth so
widespread that higher octane is better? Simple really. Most engines
that -require- higher octane fuel are high performance engines tuned for
higher octane fuel, and run at higher compression ratios. That is, they
don't just run better on high octane fuel, but they also PERFORM better than
the average engine designed for lower octane fuel. So regardless of the
fuel you put into the engine, you are getting more power out of the engine.
:)
Having said that, if your car was designed to run on 87 octane unleaded (for
example) and you put 89 or 91 octane unleaded gasoline in it, you will NOT
hurt the engine. Your fuel economy might drop slightly, but probably not
that you'd really notice. If the higher octane is 10 cents per gallon less,
you will probably come out ahead in the end, even if the higher octane fuel
gives you a slightly shorter range on each tankful.
On a side note, the various ethanol blends of gasoline muddy the waters a
bit. Ethanol doesn't have as much energy per volume as gasoline does. So
if you have an 85 octane ethanol blend gasoline, you would think it would
have more energy (greater range per gallon) than 87 or 89 or 91 octane
gasoline. But the ethanol skews the numbers. Most people find that their
cars perform worse on ethanol blends. That is, they have less power, and
MPG is lower. -Dave
Rod Speed
> catalpa <cat...@entertab.org> wrote
>> In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different gas
>> prices. In the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in the West
>> part of Trenton $3.51. A couple of miles more to the East out of
>> Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a couple of miles more to the West out
>> of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
>
> Does Joesy still have the prohibition against self-serve?
>
> A friend who owns a decent sized chain of C-stores once told me that
> in areas where there is a powerful fuel dealer's association, gas
> prices vary little. The association disciplines dealers who "get out
> of line". Conversely, in areas where the price varies widely over a
> small area, that is an indication that there is either no dealer's
> association or else a toothless one.
Anyone whose govt lets them get away with that sort of thing deserves all they get.
clams_casino
> c
>
>
>
> What this country needs is an old fashion gas war - man, that was back
> when life was good...
>
>
>
Considering most stations barely turn a profit on gasoline, don't hold
your breath.
Brian Elfert
Certain states do not allow sales below cost and some even require a
minimum markup.
State laws seemed to be the only reason that Walmart BF prices varied.
Brian Elfert
>> Canned goods seem reasonable at Wal-Mart, but the meat is a good 50% more
>> expensive than even the most expensive supermarket in the area, and I
>> consider THEIR (the supermarket's) prices on meat to be outrageously high.
>> And the deli stuff at wal-mart? You'd think it was made of gold or
>> lver. -Dave
>Yeah, there Deli is out of sight too!
The Deli prices at Walmart, at least the stuff I occasionally buy, is way
less than any other store in the area. SuperTarget's deli is far and away
the most expensive.
Don Klipstein
>> there are 3 gas stations in my town, Irving, Shell & Mobil.
>> Irving & Shell tend to be the same price. if Irving lowers
>> their price, Shell will usually lower theirs to match within a
>> few hours. Mobil, OTOH, is *always* at least .04 cents higher,
>> & sometimes as much as .07. i don't know why people even buy
>> there if high prices are so horrible. you'd think they'd be
>> looking to save those pennies...
>
>When gas gets up to ~$4/gallon or more, a few pennies per gallon doesn't
>make that much difference. If you're going to spend ~$60 or more to fill
>your tank, is it worth it to bypass the nearest station to save less than a
>buck? Not really. At close to $4 per gallon, being within say 25 cents of
>each other actually means that all the stations in the area are the same
>price.
At 25 MPG, 25 more cents per gallon means 1 cent more per mile.
If the tank takes 15 gallons and the low price is $3.75 and the high
price is $4, going a mile out of the way costs 15 cents to save $3.75.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Jim
> Dave wrote:
> >> there are 3 gas stations in my town,
[....]
> >> looking to save those pennies...
> >
> >When gas gets up to ~$4/gallon or more, a few pennies per gallon doesn't
> >make that much difference.
[....]
>
> At 25 MPG, 25 more cents per gallon means 1 cent more per mile.
>
> If the tank takes 15 gallons and the low price is $3.75 and the high
> price is $4, going a mile out of the way costs 15 cents to save $3.75.
but just suppose there's a really really good coffee shop right
next to the cheap gas station and what do you think will happen
to the savings for a coffee lover?
clams_casino
>
> If the tank takes 15 gallons and the low price is $3.75 and the high
>price is $4, going a mile out of the way costs 15 cents to save $3.75.
>
>
>
>
Even if the gas was free, it would cost a lot more than 15 cents to
drive a mile.
Rod Speed
> Don Klipstein wrote
Nope, thats nothing like the marginal cost of that extra mile.
catalpa
"Neon John" <n...@never.com> wrote in message
news:1055b4lutfpsbu7ng...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:56:44 GMT, "catalpa" <cat...@entertab.org> wrote:
>
>
>>In NJ you don't even have to leave a town to see different gas prices. In
>>the East part of Trenton gas is $3.42 and in the West part of Trenton
>>$3.51.
>>A couple of miles more to the East out of Trenton it drops to $3.35 and a
>>couple of miles more to the West out of Trenton it rises to $3.59.
>
> Does Joesy still have the prohibition against self-serve?
>
> A friend who owns a decent sized chain of C-stores once told me that in
> areas
> where there is a powerful fuel dealer's association, gas prices vary
> little.
> The association disciplines dealers who "get out of line". Conversely, in
> areas where the price varies widely over a small area, that is an
> indication
> that there is either no dealer's association or else a toothless one.
>
> John
>
Yep, no self serve in NJ. Just over the border in PA you get to pay at least
20 cents more a gallon for the privilege of pumping your own.
h
"Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g8uq7g$ov3$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Oh, yeah. I live in boondock, rural upstate NY and we pay MUCH higher (top
ten in the nation!) per capita taxes than any other part of the state.
However, we see very little or no benefit from these exorbitant taxes. Those
residents south of the Tappan Zee reap the vast majority of the rewards, as
it has always been in NY. 40% of my income goes to income and
property/school taxes. Damn good thing my mortgage is nearly paid off!
h
"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:-L-dnUbAG5XIYy_V...@posted.visi...
I've never understood "Deli" purchases. Unless you're buying a ready-made
sandwich from a store why on earth would you not make your own sandwich
meat? Anything from a "deli" is uber expensive and processed to the enth
degree. Roast a chicken or a turkey or a ham or a ribeye, then carve it up
and make sandwiches. You can freeze leftovers in small packs. It's not
exactly rocket science.
h
"catalpa" <cat...@entertab.org> wrote in message
news:GSEsk.768$w51.596@trnddc01...
I've had my credit card "skimmed" three times over 5 years. Each time was
exactly 3 weeks after I had my car filled at some random (different part of
the state) NJ gas station. I've only used my credit card at 3 NJ gas
stations in my whole life. Funny...not. Now I only pay cash at full-serve
stations, no matter what the state.
Jeff
A lot. And the prices on other nearby Walmart store was markedly higher.
I didn't notice, I heard about it from shoppers, several shoppers.
Obviously it was marked enough that it was reasonably well known. Some
of them even had the figures. Not an unenlightened bunch!
This is not say that I believe Walmart is anybodies friend.
Jeff
Neon John
>
>"Neon John" <n...@never.com> wrote in message
>news:1055b4lutfpsbu7ng...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Does Joesy still have the prohibition against self-serve?
>>
>
>Yep, no self serve in NJ. Just over the border in PA you get to pay at least
>20 cents more a gallon for the privilege of pumping your own.
>
Based on several trips to Rutgers and the Oyster Creek NP, I think that I'd
gladly pay for the privilege of pumping my own. That way I'd not have to deal
with the surly attendants whose motion makes a turtle look speedy. I'm not an
impatient guy bug geez, there's a limit to how long I'll sit next to an unused
pump while the single attendant slow-walks the cars in front of me. It seemed
like single attendant stations were the rule.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
No one can be right all of the time, but it helps to be right most of the time. -Robert Half
Don Klipstein
Brian Elfert
>I've never understood "Deli" purchases. Unless you're buying a ready-made
>sandwich from a store why on earth would you not make your own sandwich
>meat? Anything from a "deli" is uber expensive and processed to the enth
>degree. Roast a chicken or a turkey or a ham or a ribeye, then carve it up
>and make sandwiches. You can freeze leftovers in small packs. It's not
>exactly rocket science.
The only things I ever buy from a deli are items you can't really get
elsewhere. I never buy turkey, ham, and the like from the deli.
I don't purchase from the deli more than once a month at most.
Sheldon
> "Brian Elfert" <belf...@visi.com> wrote in message
> > "Anthony Diodati" <mrbreezeet1NO S...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> >>> Canned goods seem reasonable at Wal-Mart, but the meat is a good 50%
> >>> more
> >>> expensive than even the most expensive supermarket in the area, and I
> >>> consider THEIR (the supermarket's) prices on meat to be outrageously
> >>> high.
> >>> And the deli stuff at wal-mart? �You'd think it was made of gold or
> >>> lver. �-Dave
> >>Yeah, there Deli is out of sight too!
>
> > The Deli prices at Walmart, at least the stuff I occasionally buy, is way
> > less than any other store in the area. �SuperTarget's deli is far and away
> > the most expensive.
>
> I've never understood "Deli" purchases. Unless you're buying a ready-made
> sandwich from a store why on earth would you not make your own sandwich
> meat? Anything from a "deli" is uber expensive and processed to the enth
> degree. Roast a chicken or a turkey or a ham or a ribeye, then carve it up
> and make sandwiches. You can freeze leftovers in small packs. It's not
> exactly rocket science.
Roast chicken/turkey/ribeye are not considered deli meats/
provisions... delis sell those as a convenience item for the fast food
crowd, for those who don't want to cook and/or can't cook and/or can't
consume an entire roast... and such roasts once cooked do not freeze
well... nor do most people possess the knife wielding skills to slice
sandwich meat, nor do they want to bother, and it's messy. And ham
sold at delis is cured ham, very few people are going to cure their
own ham and ham is a rather large joint of meat, usually reserved for
large dinner parties, not to make the occasional sandwich. And there
are many types of ham, most of which are too costly to purchase in
large quantity, don't keep well, and Walmart doesn't carry any
specialty provisons anyway, most of what a Walmart deli sells is on
par with Oscar Mayer, and below.
Many folks enjoy quality cured meats, like salamis, balognas, wursts,
hams, etc. Naturally they can be made at home but for the quantities
most folks consume it's not worth the trouble... and properly curing
meats is indeed rocket science, very few possess the skills... indeed
there are more rocket scientists than sausagemakers.
The brands of deli meats (and cheeses) Walmart sells are of the very
poorest quality (why they are inexpensive), they cater to the very
lowest denominator, those with TIAD.
clams_casino
>
>
>Roast chicken/turkey/ribeye are not considered deli meats/
>provisions... delis sell those as a convenience item for the fast food
>crowd, for those who don't want to cook and/or can't cook and/or can't
>consume an entire roast... and such roasts once cooked do not freeze
>well... nor do most people possess the knife wielding skills to slice
>sandwich meat, nor do they want to bother, and it's messy. And ham
>sold at delis is cured ham, very few people are going to cure their
>own ham and ham is a rather large joint of meat, usually reserved for
>large dinner parties, not to make the occasional sandwich. And there
>are many types of ham, most of which are too costly to purchase in
>large quantity, don't keep well, and Walmart doesn't carry any
>specialty provisons anyway, most of what a Walmart deli sells is on
>par with Oscar Mayer, and below.
>
>Many folks enjoy quality cured meats, like salamis, balognas, wursts,
>hams, etc. Naturally they can be made at home but for the quantities
>most folks consume it's not worth the trouble... and properly curing
>meats is indeed rocket science, very few possess the skills... indeed
>there are more rocket scientists than sausagemakers.
>
>The brands of deli meats (and cheeses) Walmart sells are of the very
>poorest quality (why they are inexpensive), they cater to the very
>lowest denominator, those with TIAD.
>
>
>
Cheeses are also quite difficult to make at home.
Sheldon
>
> The only things I ever buy from a deli are items you
What items are those? Most anything sold at delis are available
packaged... often equal or better quality than the typical mega-market
deli. For high quality deli one pretty much needs to shop at
specialty delis; German, Italian, Danish, kosher...
> I never buy turkey, ham, and the like from the deli.
Why not?
Most folks shop at a deli because they desire some above average
quality specialty item but in a relatively small quantity (but there
are also those who shop delis for catering services). People don't
typically roast an entire turkey/ham for a couple sandwiches (nor do
they buy an entire salami/baloney to slice themselves), in cases where
folks prepare those whole roasts say for a holiday dinner then the
sandwiches are a by-product in using up the last dregs. People shop
at a deli for relatively small quantities of delicacies. When folks
want say a 1/2 lb of thinly sliced turkey/ham for a couple sandwiches
they are not going to roast a whole turkey/ham... would make as much
sense for folks who smoke cigars to operate their own tobacco
plantation.
delicatessen
Etymology: obsolete German (now Delikatessen), plural of Delicatesse
delicacy
---
clams_casino
> Most anything sold at delis are available
>packaged... often equal or better quality than the typical mega-market
>deli.
>
You've GOT to be kidding. I'm not sure I've ever had packaged meats
up to the quality of a decent deli. Even fresh cut american cheese is
superior to the packaged crap. Then again, I don't buy at Walmart, etc
where deli typically means highly fatty, sliced fabricated meat
products, cheese food products, etc. I'm also amazed that anyone would
actually buy Hillshire Farm, Oscar Meyer, etc.
>For high quality deli one pretty much needs to shop at
>specialty delis; German, Italian, Danish, kosher...
>
>
>
Generally, that's true, but we find Boars Head and some Sara Lee items
to be quite good & commonly found at grocers.
>>I never buy turkey, ham, and the like from the deli.
>>
>>
>
>Why not?
>
>Most folks shop at a deli because they desire some above average
>quality specialty item but in a relatively small quantity
>
and that's the real advantage - picking up a 1/4 lb pepperoni to top off
a chicken sandwich, picking up 1/2 lb of chicken salad to make just two
sandwiches, occasionally buying a 1/4 lb of prosciutto to top off some
cantaloupe, etc. Do I really want to make a gallon of cole slaw when
1/4 lb is all I really want in a week?
Sheldon
So are smoked/pickled meats/fish, preserved olives, fermented pickles,
slaws/krauts, confections... there are many products sold at delis
that are either too difficult or too troublesome to prepare at home
and especially not worth the effort for the small quantities people
require... hardly anyone is going to prepare rice/tapioca pudding at
home when all they want is like a 1/2 lb... puddings don't keep well,
a few years ago I decided I wanted to make a batch of tapioca pudding
with those large pearls. Well what does one do with six quarts... I
could barely consume a cupful before no more would go down, it's like
eating lead... fortunately I have neighbors with lots of kids who love
tapioca pudding. I'll never make tapioca pudding again, it's very
time consuming, a lot of work stirring, and turned out to be more
expensive than I had realized, but really doesn't pay to prepare a
small amount as it's the same work... next time it's gonna be a small
container from a deli.
David Harmon
"h" <tmc...@searchmachine.com> wrote,
>stations in my whole life. Funny...not. Now I only pay cash at full-serve
>stations, no matter what the state.
It's becoming common for the cheapest stations here in So. Cal. to
charge a few cents extra per gallon for credit cards.
.
h
"David Harmon" <sou...@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:kIadnQ_1ANp3vynV...@earthlink.com...
Around here it's $.05 cheaper per gallon for cash, but I get 5% back on gas
purchases from my credit card, so it's cheaper to use the card.
sarge137
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:08:51 -0400 in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
>
> >stations in my whole life. Funny...not. Now I only pay cash at full-serve
> >stations, no matter what the state.
>
> It's becoming common for the cheapest stations here in So. Cal. to
> charge a few cents extra per gallon for credit cards.
>
> .
If they're doing that with their own brand CCs that's their business.
But it's a violation of their merchant agreement with VISA and MC to
assess fees for the use of the cards. If people will complain to CC
companies they'll have to stop the fees,or stop taking the cards.
Also, the California Attorney General's Office has one of the most
aggressive consumer protection divisions in the country. They'll get
involved as well if you file a report.
sarge137
> "David Harmon" <sou...@netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kIadnQ_1ANp3vynV...@earthlink.com...
>
> > On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:08:51 -0400 in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
> >>stations in my whole life. Funny...not. Now I only pay cash at full-serve
> >>stations, no matter what the state.
>
> > It's becoming common for the cheapest stations here in So. Cal. to
> > charge a few cents extra per gallon for credit cards.
>
> Around here it's $.05 cheaper per gallon for cash, but I get 5% back on gas
> purchases from my credit card, so it's cheaper to use the card.
Same as above. Lower price for cash is also a violation of their
merchant agreement.
clams_casino
>On Aug 26, 11:16 am, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"David Harmon" <sou...@netcom.com> wrote in message
>>
>>news:kIadnQ_1ANp3vynV...@earthlink.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:08:51 -0400 in misc.consumers.frugal-living,
>>>"h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote,
>>>
>>>
>>>>stations in my whole life. Funny...not. Now I only pay cash at full-serve
>>>>stations, no matter what the state.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>It's becoming common for the cheapest stations here in So. Cal. to
>>>charge a few cents extra per gallon for credit cards.
>>>
>>>
>>Around here it's $.05 cheaper per gallon for cash, but I get 5% back on gas
>>purchases from my credit card, so it's cheaper to use the card.
>>
>>
>
>Same as above. Lower price for cash is also a violation of their
>merchant agreement.
>
>
But it's not a lower price for cash. Cash costs more than the credit
card.
I typically save 5-15 cents / gallon by using a credit card vs. paying cash.
sarge137
But the poster said "$.05 cheaper per gallon for cash". That means to
me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
according to their merchant agreement.
George
Actually my complaint is that if I don't want to subsidize cash back or
whatever purchases if I choose to pay cash I should be allowed to do
that. I think disallowing that by contractual obligation borders on
racketeering by the banks.
sarge137
I don't disagree with you George. Those merchant agreements are far
too restrictive. But they are what they are. They've been tested in
court, and found to be enforceable, many times over. So long as a
merchant is displaying those logos to induce people without cash to do
business with them, I'll do everything in my power to ensure they
comply with them. It's my special cause, and I've been 100%
successful in forcing compliance in several cases.
If I had my way, I'd change those agreements to allow merchants to
pass those fees directly to customers who use CCs, at least for small
purchases. I'm old enough to remember when not every merchant took
bank cards (then called BankAmericard and MasterCard didn't exist).
And, almost every cash register had a sign on it that said something
like "minimum purchase $10 for credit cards".
I carry enough cash to handle my small day to day expenses. But I use
a VISA debit card for larger purchases like groceries and gasoline.
Most merchants to don't distinguish between the debit/credit cards,
which is why I won't tolerate different cash/credit pricing if they
take cards.
Rod Speed
And is illegal in any country with a clue.
enigma
news:9816c0a6-3f5b-4ed4...@25g2000hsx.googlegro
ups.com:
> I carry enough cash to handle my small day to day expenses.
i would, but i'm allergic to US paper currency (the inks).
somehow most merchants get testy if you pay in coins.
most people who pay for daily transactions with credit cards
are paying some rediculous interest rate to do so (since most
people don't pay them off every month). i don't see how
further penalties for using cards is warranted... and if you
don't think credit card fees aren't built into everything you
purchase already, you're living in dreamland.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.
Dave
>me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
>cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
>and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
>you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
>according to their merchant agreement.
No, the cash and credit prices must not be the same.
Actually, the merchant agreement states you can't charge more (above the
regular price) for a customer paying with a credit card. That's why the
various merchants offer discounts for cash purchases. That way, they are
charging "normal" price for credit card purchases (but not extra!) and the
people who pay with cash get a discount (they pay less than normal price).
It's perfectly legit, and does not violate the merchant agreement. Because
it's advertised as a -discount- for a cash purchase.
It's subtle, but significant. If the merchant put up a sign stating
something like "price 5% higher for credit card purchase", THAT would be a
violation of the merchant agreement. But the signs are usually worded "5
cent per gallon cash discount" or wording to that effect. That makes it
legit. They can still accept VISA/MC, as they are charging the credit card
customers REGULAR price. -Dave
AL
> But the poster said "$.05 cheaper per gallon for cash". That means to
> me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
> cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
> and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
> you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
> according to their merchant agreement.
You're wrong.
George
>> But the poster said "$.05 cheaper per gallon for cash". That means to
>> me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
>> cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
>> and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
>> you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
>> according to their merchant agreement.
>
> No, the cash and credit prices must not be the same.
>
> Actually, the merchant agreement states you can't charge more (above the
> regular price) for a customer paying with a credit card. That's why the
> various merchants offer discounts for cash purchases. That way, they
> are charging "normal" price for credit card purchases (but not extra!)
> and the people who pay with cash get a discount (they pay less than
> normal price). It's perfectly legit, and does not violate the merchant
> agreement. Because it's advertised as a -discount- for a cash purchase.
I know a local rather large store and a gas station that were called on
the carpet for giving cash discounts. I don't know if it has something
to do with specific requirements for merchant agreements in my state. I
used to like buying stuff at that store. You walked up to the register
and said "cash" and the clerk hit that key and you were given a cash
discount. Same with the gas station. You pushed the cash key and you got
a discount. One of the card companies found out and the determination
was that a merchant couldn't do anything to highlight the fees the bank
was getting including offering a cash discount. I have never seen any
other places in my state offering cash discounts.
George
> On Aug 26, 4:13 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> too restrictive. But they are what they are. They've been tested in
> court, and found to be enforceable, many times over. So long as a
> merchant is displaying those logos to induce people without cash to do
> business with them, I'll do everything in my power to ensure they
> comply with them. It's my special cause, and I've been 100%
> successful in forcing compliance in several cases.
>
> If I had my way, I'd change those agreements to allow merchants to
> pass those fees directly to customers who use CCs, at least for small
> purchases. I'm old enough to remember when not every merchant took
> bank cards (then called BankAmericard and MasterCard didn't exist).
> And, almost every cash register had a sign on it that said something
> like "minimum purchase $10 for credit cards".
>
>
compliance" instead of protesting. I may may wrong but that seems just a
little disingenuous.
Neon John
>I know a local rather large store and a gas station that were called on
>the carpet for giving cash discounts. I don't know if it has something
>to do with specific requirements for merchant agreements in my state. I
>used to like buying stuff at that store. You walked up to the register
>and said "cash" and the clerk hit that key and you were given a cash
>discount. Same with the gas station. You pushed the cash key and you got
>a discount. One of the card companies found out and the determination
>was that a merchant couldn't do anything to highlight the fees the bank
>was getting including offering a cash discount. I have never seen any
>other places in my state offering cash discounts.
I didn't accept credit cards for about 6 of the 11 years I operated my
restaurants. I finally installed machines to make paying over the phone for
catering jobs easier. I did not sign a merchant agreement. I simply called
my bank, told 'em I'd like to accept credit cards and a few hours later, a
bank rep showed up with the machines already programmed.
I charged a fee and had a minimum purchase requirement for credit card use.
Occasionally someone would complain and I'd get a call from the bank telling
me that someone had complained. My standard response was "That's the way I
run my business and if that's not OK with y'all then come get the machines.
I'll have all my banking moved to a competitor within 24 hours." Nobody ever
came for the machines.
CCs were more of a pain in the *ss than anything, slowing up the register line
and making cash customers wait. I came close to ripping out the machines on
my on volition several times. If it weren't for the corporate catering
customers, I would have.
In business, as in war, the guy willing to risk the most usually wins. The
bank valued my business much more than I valued their CC machines so we
reached an agreement in my favor.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then they'd be putting morphine in the water supply.
h
"AL" <lit...@hamiltoncom.net> wrote in message
news:TredncNeH7ZtOinV...@hamiltoncom.net...
Really, not so much. I'm a credit card merchant and there is no such
restriction on cash/versus/credit.
h
"sarge137" <rboot...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9816c0a6-3f5b-4ed4...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 4:13 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>too restrictive. But they are what they are. They've been tested in
>court, and found to be enforceable, many times over. So long as a
>merchant is displaying those logos to induce people without cash to do
?business with them, I'll do everything in my power to ensure they
>comply with them. It's my special cause, and I've been 100%
s>uccessful in forcing compliance in several cases.>
...purchases. I'm old enough to remember when not every merchant took
>bank cards (then called BankAmericard and MasterCard didn't exist).
>And, almost every cash register had a sign on it that said something
l>ike "minimum purchase $10 for credit cards".
>I carry enough cash to handle my small day to day expenses.
Yet I can't remember the last time any of my purchases was less than $80,
which is WAY more cash than I wish to carry.
clams_casino
>But the poster said "$.05 cheaper per gallon for cash". That means to
>me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
>cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
>and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
>you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
>according to their merchant agreement.
>
>
It must be a local (possibly local state) law. I recall such discounts
being quite common years ago & am starting to see cash discounts at
many gas stations. Oddly, I don't recall seeing cash discounts
anywhere but at gas stations.
Here, the law states if a cash price is lower than charge, the
pricing must be displayed equally. For example, a station can not
have large display for a special cash price, but only display an
increased price for a charge posted simply at the pump.
clams_casino
>But the poster said "$.05 cheaper per gallon for cash". That means to
>me they charge a nickel less per gallon for a customer who pays in
>cash than one who wants to use the card reader. They can't do that,
>and continue to accept VISA/MC. Doesn't matter that your card gives
>you a rebate on the purchase. Cash/credit prices MUST be the same
>according to their merchant agreement.
>
>
You don't seem to understand the wording. They can provide a discount
for cash, but can not charge a premium for using a charge card.
End result is the same, but the wording is different.
George
Not doubting you but according to everything I have ever been told it is
unusual. The local store I described is a huge place which includes a
tire center, hardware, furniture, pets, sporting goods etc. The family
that owns it has a total of 3 such operations.
Neon John
>> In business, as in war, the guy willing to risk the most usually wins. The
>> bank valued my business much more than I valued their CC machines so we
>> reached an agreement in my favor.
>>
>> John
>
>
>Not doubting you but according to everything I have ever been told it is
>unusual. The local store I described is a huge place which includes a
>tire center, hardware, furniture, pets, sporting goods etc. The family
>that owns it has a total of 3 such operations.
It depends on who your processor is. The two major categories are banks
themselves and independent processors. I did end up moving my banking because
of other issues and at neither bank was I asked to sign a merchant agreement.
Sales reps from independent processors called on me frequently. Some had
slightly better rates than my bank but the deal-killer that they all had in
common was the mother of all contracts. At least 10 pages of about 8 point
type that would have taken me hours to read if I'd been able to actually see
the text. I'm sure that somewhere in that contract was a clause prohibiting
what I did. That was fine. I sold 'em some BBQ and sent 'em on their way :-)
I should note that I never did business with a banking conglomerate. I always
banked with home-town independent banks. I knew the president and could walk
in and chat any time. When they sold out to a conglomerate and he founded a
new bank, I moved with him. I'm sure that, say, a Citibank would offer a
merchant agreement large enough that I could use it for wall paper.
The major incentive to deal with a home town bank and forego other benefits
such as in-network ATMs all over the country >IS< the personal service. I
expected them to stand between me and Visa/MC and they did. I'm sure that
someone at the back told a V/MC rep that they'd scolded me and that all was
well.
One other thing that I should note. V/MC aren't all-powerful. In addition to
having the anti-trust government types on their backs, they deal with
companies much larger than they. They don't dictate terms in a pre-printed
contract in those cases. They negotiate terms.
Quite obviously the major chain gas stations and truck stops have negotiated
agreements that let them give cash discounts. Very substantial ones. Most
Love's and other chain truck stops, er, travel centers, have interstate
billboards that alternately flash the cash and credit prices. During my year
of OTR truck driving, I became quite familiar with those. Sometimes the
discount was as much as 12 cents/gallon.
The company that I drove for gave me a fuel card that when used at the truck
pump, rendered yet another price, the one that they'd negotiated with the
chain. We could use certain chains but not others. "Others" apparently
hadn't reached a satisfactory pricing agreement with the trucking company.
Point of my posting is to demonstrate that people who think that something as
complex as the plastic banking industry can be reduced to a simpleton
platitude such as "no cash discounts and no surcharges allowed" are simply
bullsh*tting themselves.
I want to point out another thing. We independent businessmen are ALWAYS
smarter, more flexible and more mobile than any bureaucratic machine such as V
or MC. For example, consider a situation where I needed to process plastic
for my business but also wanted to offer discounts to cash customers. Enter
my Frequent Porker customer loyalty card. As it existed, after 9 meals were
marked off on the card, the 10 one was free.
All I had to do to achieve my purpose of charging a plastic user fee was to
offer a Frequent Porker discount to my loyal customers but make it only
effective for cash transactions. Show me the FP card and cash and get a
discount. It never came to that but I already had my homemade point-of-sale
system programmed, just in case. Most of my customers were regulars so we'd
have worked something out.
Mine were low cost, high quality family restaurants. Most of my clientele
were blue collar workers. I had to compete with Micky-Dee. My prices were a
little higher but the quality made up for it. Few of my customers used
plastic. Had I been operating an upscale white tablecloth establishment, I'd
have gladly taken plastic or cash on an equal basis. My prices would have
been such that the cost difference would have been buried down in the noise.
Consider this. I could offer a 1 pound USDA aged Prime Ribeye with all the
fixings for about $22 and change and make a nice profit. Last time I checked,
that same steak would cost you about $80 at Ruth's Chris steak house. Do you
think that they minded paying the 35 cents + 1.88% plastic fee? (assuming they
had the same rate as I did.)
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.
Neon John
>>I carry enough cash to handle my small day to day expenses.
>
>Yet I can't remember the last time any of my purchases was less than $80,
>which is WAY more cash than I wish to carry.
I suppose that's one way to do things. Of course, you miss a lot of good
deals that way.
Fer'instance, I bought my GMC/Izuzu cube van (medium duty delivery truck) for
about a third of the NADA high wholesale price because when I spotted it
sitting in what turned out to be a small bank president's front yard, I had
several thousand in my pocket and could make the deal on the spot. I needed a
delivery truck badly and was carrying enough for what I thought would be a
binding down payment until I could hit my safe for the rest of the cash.
Turned out I had enough so that when I flashed the cash, he took my offer. My
offer was half the price on the sign in the truck window.
I always carry substantial cash because I've found that it makes doing deals
much easier. Just in case anyone gets any ideas, there's a revolver in the
other pocket :-)
I don't mind negotiating even for new purchases. Even at chain stores. The
store manager has much latitude. Usually all it takes is something to the
effect "I have this much cash (flashes cash) and I'm willing to spend it for
this item. If that's acceptable then we have a deal. If not, then I'll go
elsewhere." Flashing green has a funny effect on people. Makes 'em get all
wobbly-kneed and weak.
Of course, I'm not going to be able to negotiate for a $50 drill but, say, a
$2000 utility building? Yep, worked at Home Depot. Having a Lowe's right
across the street helped a lot :-)
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Give Blood. 8 Billion Mosquitoes can't be wrong.
Dave
> the
> fixings for about $22 and change and make a nice profit. Last time I
> checked,
> that same steak would cost you about $80 at Ruth's Chris steak house. Do
> you
> think that they minded paying the 35 cents + 1.88% plastic fee?
Yes, because Ruth's Chris has major overhead. Just a guess, but I'd bet
close to 50 bucks of that steak pays for middle and upper management types,
and bennies for same. So no, they can't afford the 35 cents plus 1.88%
plastic fees. :) -Dave
George
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:08:30 -0400, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> In business, as in war, the guy willing to risk the most usually wins. The
>>> bank valued my business much more than I valued their CC machines so we
>>> reached an agreement in my favor.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> Not doubting you but according to everything I have ever been told it is
>> unusual. The local store I described is a huge place which includes a
>> tire center, hardware, furniture, pets, sporting goods etc. The family
>> that owns it has a total of 3 such operations.
>
> It depends on who your processor is. The two major categories are banks
> themselves and independent processors. I did end up moving my banking because
> of other issues and at neither bank was I asked to sign a merchant agreement.
>
> Sales reps from independent processors called on me frequently. Some had
> slightly better rates than my bank but the deal-killer that they all had in
> common was the mother of all contracts. At least 10 pages of about 8 point
> type that would have taken me hours to read if I'd been able to actually see
> the text. I'm sure that somewhere in that contract was a clause prohibiting
> what I did. That was fine. I sold 'em some BBQ and sent 'em on their way :-)
>
> I should note that I never did business with a banking conglomerate. I always
> banked with home-town independent banks. I knew the president and could walk
> in and chat any time. When they sold out to a conglomerate and he founded a
> new bank, I moved with him. I'm sure that, say, a Citibank would offer a
> merchant agreement large enough that I could use it for wall paper.
Tough thing to do. The faceless, monolithic do it our way or the highway
megabanks own most of the banks and typically the locals are just
typically speculators who are trying to become big enough to sell out to
a megabank. So as soon as you build a relationship with them your
account gets turned over to megabank.
>
> The major incentive to deal with a home town bank and forego other benefits
> such as in-network ATMs all over the country >IS< the personal service. I
> expected them to stand between me and Visa/MC and they did. I'm sure that
> someone at the back told a V/MC rep that they'd scolded me and that all was
> well.
>
> One other thing that I should note. V/MC aren't all-powerful. In addition to
> having the anti-trust government types on their backs, they deal with
> companies much larger than they. They don't dictate terms in a pre-printed
> contract in those cases. They negotiate terms.
>
> Quite obviously the major chain gas stations and truck stops have negotiated
> agreements that let them give cash discounts. Very substantial ones. Most
> Love's and other chain truck stops, er, travel centers, have interstate
> billboards that alternately flash the cash and credit prices. During my year
> of OTR truck driving, I became quite familiar with those. Sometimes the
> discount was as much as 12 cents/gallon.
I have never seen that in my state and thats what I wondered about. Also
I don't remember seeing that in adjoining states. The billboards you see
have the price for diesel and regular and no mention of a cash discount.
If you pull into one of those places and push the cash button on the
pump it merely means you will pay cash with enough markup to help pay
for the credit card transactions.
>
> The company that I drove for gave me a fuel card that when used at the truck
> pump, rendered yet another price, the one that they'd negotiated with the
> chain. We could use certain chains but not others. "Others" apparently
> hadn't reached a satisfactory pricing agreement with the trucking company.
Fleet pricing is a totally different thing. We are discussing retail
purchases.
>
> Point of my posting is to demonstrate that people who think that something as
> complex as the plastic banking industry can be reduced to a simpleton
> platitude such as "no cash discounts and no surcharges allowed" are simply
> bullsh*tting themselves.
You are welcome to come by and explain why there are no cash discounts
that I have ever seen from vendors that accept CC in my state.
Don Klipstein
I occaisionally see and hear cash discounts for gas stations of one
company or another. I also occaisionally see and hear ads for others
saying the opposite - same-price-cash-or-credit.
Not really frequently, more several years ago than now, but I do
remember this occurring in Pennsylvania.
Also, every time I have ever been at a computer show in PA (last time
was a few years ago), many vendors (especially many selling motherboards,
CPUs and memory) had signs with a lot of items and prices for them
and having 2 prices for each - the nominal price and the cash discount
price.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Susan (CobbersMom)
prices with
> their suppliers, the goods sold in the store are made, well, > cheaper.
> for things like toasters, it's not too big a deal > (assuming you realize
> a $9 toaster will crap out in less than > a year),
My $9 toasters have lasted substantially longer than the $80 toaster my dad
bought for me years ago which laster a year and a half. Not worth repairing
and not worth buying, IMO.
Sue
Minocqua, WI
Yamaha '00 VStar 650
'04 TW200 (mud = fun)
Kawasaki '95 Vulcan 1500 V#15937
Feminine Protection:
Light days - Glock 27 w/ Crimson Trace
Heavy days - Ruger Redhawk .44 mag