Do It Yourself Doctoring – Wish List
tgi...@athenet.net
the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we at
this process? I know I’m not. If I had better tools and knowledge, I
think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.
Here’s my Wish-List. How about you? What would you like to see
happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?
1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that would check
more than just symptoms. I’d like to see Symptom Checkers have the
capability for the user to input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results,
and Health History. Based on these inputs, the computer would give
the user most probable Diagnoses. The user then picks a diagnosis.
The computer would then give a personalized printed “prescription” for
Over-The-Counter Medicines, Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that
might help the user’s condition. Think of this as a “Super Symptom
Checker”. Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO Online
Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.
2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy
shelves. Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests,
Stethoscopes, etc.
3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities,
and where the user could provide health history on a removable memory
card.
4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.
For more information and diagram, please go to http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dswxq4k_19pz6xwk7x
Rod Speed
> Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
> the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we
> at this process? I know I’m not. If I had better tools and knowledge,
> I think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.
Trouble is that there is no way to do what matters, the tests.
> Here’s my Wish-List. How about you? What would you
> like to see happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?
> 1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that
> would check more than just symptoms. I’d like to see
> Symptom Checkers have the capability for the user to
> input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results, and Health History.
Its more practical to get a GP to do that stuff.
> Based on these inputs, the computer would give the user most probable Diagnoses.
Thats not how a GP does it. They consider the most probable diagnosis and
then order tests which will decide which of the possibilitys is the real diagnosis.
> The user then picks a diagnosis. The computer would then give a
> personalized printed “prescription” for Over-The-Counter Medicines,
> Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that might help the user’s condition.
Makes no sense to do that until further test prove what the condition is.
And then quite a bit of the time you need a prescription for the meds
that will do something effective about the problem you actually have.
> Think of this as a “Super Symptom Checker”.
The trouble is that it cant do what a GP does, order appropriate tests.
And for the simpler stuff that doesnt need diagnostic tests or prescriptions,
there isnt really any need for any software to do the diagnosis in most cases.
> Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
> Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO
> Online Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.
> 2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy shelves.
> Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests, Stethoscopes, etc.
Yes, but without the medical training, a stethoscope is no use except to
decide if the individual is dead and there are better ways of deciding that.
> 3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
> computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities, and
> where the user could provide health history on a removable memory card.
Makes a lot more sense to use a GP for that sort of thing.
> 4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
> on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.
But again, there is no way to do the tests.
Al Bundy
I applaud the direction of your thinking, but the general public is
not capable of using such a super diagnosis machine without getting
into trouble. The health sites are pretty good and they have
disclaimers all over. The liability on such a machine at the pharmacy
would be prohibitive. Doctors actually do use a symptom based software
search at times to help diagnose. The doctors are often wrong even
when they have the patient in hand. I think the best thing is to live
a healthy lifestyle and avoid as much of the health care system as
possible. How far you go depends on the risk you are willing to take.
I pulled a tooth a few months ago to save money and it worked out OK.
I have also done some stitching and very minor hand surgery that
consisted of cutting off some scare tissue.
As far as testing, I would like to see a CBC, complete blood count,
available in a kit that could be sent off and returned. That is still
subject to much interpretation, but perhaps just sending the raw
numbers would not be too much of a liability. The doctors often pass
on the results of such tests and a chart showing the normal ranges and
potential reasons for abnormalities. It would take legislation to
allow some of these self tests to avoid litigation. I believe a person
has the right to facts about his own situation. Perhaps the coming
drain on the health care system would drive more self testing.
NoSpa...@lousyisp.gov
I also applaud your naivete. No really it's a good idea but incredibly
naive. The medical industry, when you include MD's, hospitals,
academics, pharmaceutical companies, device mfgs, pharmacies,
insurance companies and all the people who work therein, is huge and
has an overwhelming interest in keeping your ideas at bay. And they
have the money and the hooks to influence (usually dictate to) all the
state and federal governments and have not been shy in using their
power. They even have the people who would benefit enormously from
your DIY doctoring attacking the suggestion, very often on the basis
of a misplaced concern for the public screwing up. I bet the bespoke
butchers used the same arguments when supermarkets appeared. The
housewives soon got over their fear of deciding what cut to buy and
how to cook it when they saw the price reduction.
As to "can't do the testing and can't write a prescription" we now
have this wonderful invention known as the internet. Except for
schedule 2 and 3 controlled substances (mainly addictive drugs) almost
all the rest are available without a prescription from your favorite
Indian pharmacy and at a much lower cost too. I haven't checked on CBC
or similar but anything that is testable from saliva or urine is also
available over the internet, legally in most states too.
However there's another little problem. The criteria for any disease
is not cast-in-stone, in fact there's lots of disagreement on test
interpretation. What usually happens is that the MD guesses what's
most likely (he'll say this is experience) and then picks a medication
based on the sexiness of the last medical visitor selling something in
the field. It might or might not work but if it doesn't he'll then try
some other medication or try his next-in-line diagnosis. You might get
cured or it might spontaneously resolve itself (you could die too) but
either way he gets the credit. Depending on your level of cynicism,
you will then become an apologist for the medical industry telling any
critic that Doctor X is well worth a 75-foot yacht. It's like the
nauseating picture of people slobbering over Warren Buffert in the
current economic crisis.
meow...@care2.com
> Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
> the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we at
> this process? I know I’m not. If I had better tools and knowledge, I
> think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.
>
> Here’s my Wish-List. How about you? What would you like to see
> happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?
>
> 1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that would check
> more than just symptoms. I’d like to see Symptom Checkers have the
> capability for the user to input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results,
> and Health History. Based on these inputs, the computer would give
> the user most probable Diagnoses.
To give that one would need to collect an awful lot of statistics.
Version 1 could begin by using doctor diagnoses, and collect feedback
data from those it treats, developing its diagnoses better from there.
Also what a user needs is not as simple as the most probable
diagnosis. Dangerous possible diagnoses need flagging for checking.
And the ease, cost and risk of treatment needs to influence the
diagnosis chosen too...
For example condition A has 20% chance of being the problem, and is
cheap & safe to treat. Condition B has 30% chance, but is expensive,
painful and risky to treat. Then, if not urgent, we need to begin by
following up diagnosis A, not B.
> The user then picks a diagnosis.
> The computer would then give a personalized printed “prescription” for
> Over-The-Counter Medicines, Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that
> might help the user’s condition. Think of this as a “Super Symptom
> Checker”. Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
> Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO Online
> Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.
> 2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy
> shelves. Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests,
> Stethoscopes, etc.
That will happen if the market wants them. If they're not there, its
because purchasers dont. When computerised diagnosis eventually takes
off - ad its pretty inevitable - the required tools will appear.
> 3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
> computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities,
> and where the user could provide health history on a removable memory
> card.
>
> 4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
> on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.
free? lol
Rod Speed
> tgi...@athenet.net wrote:
>
>> Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
>> the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we at
>> this process? I know I'm not. If I had better tools and knowledge,
>> I
>> think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.
>>
>> Here's my Wish-List. How about you? What would you like to see
>> happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?
>>
>> 1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that would check
>> more than just symptoms. I'd like to see Symptom Checkers have the
>> capability for the user to input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test
>> Results,
>> and Health History. Based on these inputs, the computer would give
>> the user most probable Diagnoses. The user then picks a diagnosis.
>> The computer would then give a personalized printed "prescription"
>> for
>> Over-The-Counter Medicines, Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that
>> might help the user's condition. Think of this as a "Super Symptom
>> Checker". Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
>> Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO Online
>> Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.
>>
>> 2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy
>> Stethoscopes, etc.
>>
>> 3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
>> computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities,
>> and where the user could provide health history on a removable memory
>> card.
>>
>> 4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
>> on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.
>>
>> For more information and diagram, please go to
>> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dswxq4k_19pz6xwk7x
>
> I also applaud your naivete. No really it's a good idea but incredibly
> naive. The medical industry, when you include MD's, hospitals,
> academics, pharmaceutical companies, device mfgs, pharmacies,
> insurance companies and all the people who work therein, is huge and
> has an overwhelming interest in keeping your ideas at bay. And they
> have the money and the hooks to influence (usually dictate to) all the
> state and federal governments and have not been shy in using their
> power. They even have the people who would benefit enormously from
> your DIY doctoring attacking the suggestion, very often on the basis
> of a misplaced concern for the public screwing up. I bet the bespoke
> butchers used the same arguments when supermarkets appeared. The
> housewives soon got over their fear of deciding what cut to buy and
> how to cook it when they saw the price reduction.
> As to "can't do the testing and can't write a prescription"
> we now have this wonderful invention known as the internet.
Doesnt do a damned thing about getting the appropriate tests.
> Except for schedule 2 and 3 controlled substances (mainly addictive
> drugs) almost all the rest are available without a prescription from
> your favorite Indian pharmacy and at a much lower cost too.
And you have absolutely no way of knowing if its actually
got in it what the label on the box claims its got in it.
> I haven't checked on CBC or similar but anything that is testable from
> saliva or urine is also available over the internet, legally in most states too.
Pity that most of the tests that matter are blood tests.
> However there's another little problem. The criteria for any disease is not
> cast-in-stone, in fact there's lots of disagreement on test interpretation.
But it is a hell of a lot better than trying to diagnose the problem without any tests at all.
> What usually happens is that the MD guesses what's most likely
> (he'll say this is experience) and then picks a medication based on
> the sexiness of the last medical visitor selling something in the field.
What actually happens is that the GP considers what medical problems
could produce the symptoms that the patient is complaining about and
orders tests to distinguish between the main possibilitys and when the
tests show what the problem actually is, goes with the protocols for
that particular medical problem with serious medical problems.
> It might or might not work but if it doesn't he'll then try
> some other medication or try his next-in-line diagnosis.
Thanks for that complete superfluous proof that you
dont have a clue about how modern medicine is done.
> You might get cured or it might spontaneously resolve itself
Neither of those is very common in modern first world
medicine except with trivial stuff like colds and flu etc.
> (you could die too) but either way he gets the credit. Depending
> on your level of cynicism, you will then become an apologist for
> the medical industry telling any critic that Doctor X is well worth
> a 75-foot yacht. It's like the nauseating picture of people
> slobbering over Warren Buffert in the current economic crisis.
And plenty have enough of a clue to have worked out how modern
medicine has made significant progress with the treatment of heart
disease and diabetes etc and that real medicine is nothing like your
mindless cartoon view of reality.
NoSpa...@lousyisp.gov
>As to "can't do the testing and can't write a prescription" we now
>have this wonderful invention known as the internet. Except for
>schedule 2 and 3 controlled substances (mainly addictive drugs) almost
>all the rest are available without a prescription from your favorite
>Indian pharmacy and at a much lower cost too. I haven't checked on CBC
>or similar but anything that is testable from saliva or urine is also
>available over the internet, legally in most states too.
Since it seems that no one can use a search engine,
http://www.personalabs.com/index.php
does no-prescription-required blood tests.
Rod Speed
> NoSpa...@LousyISP.gov wrote:
>
>
>> As to "can't do the testing and can't write a prescription" we now
>> have this wonderful invention known as the internet. Except for
>> schedule 2 and 3 controlled substances (mainly addictive drugs)
>> almost all the rest are available without a prescription from your
>> favorite Indian pharmacy and at a much lower cost too. I haven't
>> checked on CBC or similar but anything that is testable from saliva
>> or urine is also available over the internet, legally in most states too.
> Since it seems that no one can use a search engine,
Or they have enough of a clue to realise that its a tad harder
to extract enough blood than it is with saliva or urine.