Gasoline "Boycott": The Next Generation
Starr...@gmail.com
story told, prices came down
soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
during the gasoline shortages
of the 1970's.
One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
work every weekday. You could
still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
substantial number of the populace rode the
bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
and others.
And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's of all oil
companies and auto manufacturers. Tell them
that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.
Don't accept heinous solutions like
drilling in Alaska or other American nature preserves, since there
isn't enough oil there for a month of
use, anyway. Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.
Tell them to come up with better solutions
than ethanol, which only raises food prices while doing nothing for
the environment.
Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress, ceo's of
Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain,
Walmart, etc. Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing. The economic hit is
causing you to shop thrift shops and garage
sales exclusively. And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a
gallon
(you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
Christmas by exchanging homemade
Christmas cards!
And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax
holiday. Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the
internet.
George Grapman
example I often have appointments in different areas on the same day.
public transit would force me to cancel some of them.
Al Bundy
Start by holding your breath in July to cut CO2 emissions too.
Rod Speed
> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
The comments on them certainly have.
> Despite every official story told, prices came down soon
> enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better
> mileage during the gasoline shortages of the 1970's.
That aint what happened.
> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would
> be to ride the bus to work every weekday.
And that would have no effect on world oil prices, essentially because
US consumption is only a small part of the world consumption.
> You could still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc.,
> but if a substantial number of the populace rode the bus, this
> would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil conglomerates.
Nope.
> The sooner, the better, but doing this for the month of
> July would provide a good hook for you, and others.
And would make no difference to the price of oil, you watch.
> And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's
> of all oil companies and auto manufacturers.
And they will just file them in their round filing cabinets under their desks.
> Tell them that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.
And they will realise that that is a lie when they look at the traffic on the roads.
> Don't accept heinous solutions like drilling in Alaska or other American nature
> preserves, since there isn't enough oil there for a month of use, anyway.
Pig ignorant lie.
> Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.
Because they have been exploited.
> Tell them to come up with better solutions than ethanol,
Sorry, fresh out of magic wands to wave.
> which only raises food prices while doing nothing for the environment.
Pig ignorant lie.
> Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress,
> ceo's of Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain, Walmart, etc.
They wont even bother to read them.
> Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
> prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing.
Fat lot of good that will do when they dont even bother to read them.
> The economic hit is causing you to shop thrift shops and garage sales exclusively.
They wouldnt believe that lie, even if they were stupid enough to read your letter.
> And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a gallon
> (you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
> Christmas by exchanging homemade Christmas cards!
MUCH more effective to set fire to yourself outside their HQ. They wont be able to ignore that so easily.
> And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax holiday.
> Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the internet.
Go and fuck yourself.
The Real Bev
> Starr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>
> Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
> Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.
Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
backward, not forward.
--
Cheers, Bev
============================================
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens
to suck you out of your car.
Don Klipstein
>Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
>> Starr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>>
>> Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
>> Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.
>
>Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
>spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
>way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
>backward, not forward.
Most Americans still have legs and feet and can afford bikes.
Freedom to travel in America appears to me to have historically been on
Americans' own nickels unless the travel is along subsidized routes via
subsidized vehicles. Please do consider vehicle codes of most of the 50
states giving preference to those whose vehicles are "The Two Cadillacs" -
as in their shoes.
Also consider that in most, possibly all of 50 of America's "states"
bicycles are legal vehicles with same rights and responsibilities as cars
unless "official traffic control devices" say otherwise (such as lane
restrictions, most of which exclude cars and trucks). As far as I know in
PA and in at least most of the other 49 USA "states", bicycles are
"street-legal vehicles" but exempted from requirements for insurance,
registration, title, inspection and tags, along with having a lower
standard to meet for lights should they be operated at nighttime.
My experience in/near Philadelphia is in addition that *mostly* (I
disclaim any guarantee) that police officers *mostly* do not stop and
ticket cyclists for running red lights as long as the cyclists stop and
yield to pedestrians and vehicles who have green lights.
(CAUTION - failure to stop for a red light and failure to come to a full
stop at a stop sign is ticketable in PA with 3 points on the vehicle
operator's license. My sense is that "culturally" in my region of PA that
stopping at stop signs mainly has to be done to the extent to avoid
at-fault crashes, and that cyclists "culturally" only need to stop for red
lights to yield to whoever has a green light.)
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
The Real Bev
> In article <7OZ2k.91$Mk4...@newsfe05.lga>,
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>>
>> > Starr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>> >
>> > Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
>> > Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.
>>
>> Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
>> spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
>> way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
>> backward, not forward.
>
> Wrong. Public transit is a viable means of transportation for millions
> of people in some of the world's greatest cities and it works better
> than private transportation.
As long as it goes where you want to go and when you want to go and lets
you take the stuff you want to take. I've used public transportation
maybe a dozen times in the last several years -- since we got a Metro
station a quarter of a mile away. I went to the Staples center to see
some friends become citizens and I've gone to Chinatown a number of
times because the grandspawn think riding trains is neat. Those trips
would have been faster by car, but they were done for recreational
rather than practical purposes.
I'm trying to figure out just what public transportation we and our
bicycles and our camping equipment could take to get to Moab by tomorrow
night. I don't think I'm gonna make it.
That's freedom to travel, and when we lose it it will be a BIG loss.
> The problem with the United States is that
> far too many urban and suburban areas are poorly served by public
> transportation. You have a right to travel where you want, but you also
> have a responsibility to pay the full cost of your travel expenses if
> you want the luxury of private transportation.
We've paid the standard taxes all our life. We've paid our dues along
with the dues of a lot of other people. I let the welfare recipients
use my roads, the least they could do is say thank you and not throw
trash on them.
--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely
because I have a pet halibut? --Monty Python
Napoleon
<bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
>spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
>way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
>backward, not forward.
Absolutely not. We're going to Norway next week and will be using
public transportation for ALL our travel. We are traveling throughout
the country - including the Arctic Circle.
If America would spend some money on its own infrastructure, instead
of wasting it on destroying the infrastructures of other countries,
then you would see public transportation as essential and efficient.
Other countries have high speed bullet trains, metro systems, bus
systems, etc., that work quite well. In fact, America used to have
wonderful public transportation (trains, buses and electric cable cars
were the norm), before the car came along. There was a time I could
hop on a train and be in the Adirondacks (3 hours from my house) in
the same amount of time (or less) than it takes in a car. But that was
in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Now we've gone backwards, and I
have to use a gas-guzzling car, do my own driving, sit in traffic
jams, and then find places to park.
-N
George
> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
>> Starr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>>
>> Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
>> Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.
>
> Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
> spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
> way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
> backward, not forward.
>
Quite frankly we are an embarrassment compared to other countries. I
made frequent and extensive trips to Japan and it was always a pleasure
to take efficient mass transit anywhere you needed to go.
George
We aren't going to loose anything. We just need to be a lot less stupid
about how we do things. When I see people driving themselves and a
coffee in a big fluffed up truck or see my neighbor load their kid in a
giant fluffed up truck to go two blocks to the school bus stop everyday
or watch people in fluffed up trucks competing with each other to park
the closest to the door of the gym I shake my head. Multiply this
typical behavior by millions each day and imagine the waste.
>
>> The problem with the United States is that far too many urban and
>> suburban areas are poorly served by public transportation. You have a
>> right to travel where you want, but you also
>> have a responsibility to pay the full cost of your travel expenses if
>> you want the luxury of private transportation.
>
> We've paid the standard taxes all our life. We've paid our dues along
> with the dues of a lot of other people. I let the welfare recipients
> use my roads, the least they could do is say thank you and not throw
> trash on them.
>
You will need to discuss this with the politicians who used the money
for other stuff deferring maintenance on the roads and the ones who
decided to go for a walmart class interstate highway system. Before the
interstates they used to do responsible things like realizing that a
bridge had to last a long time so they build good ones. When they built
the interstate highway system they decided to go for show so their
budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a good road they
decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using less steel and
concrete on the bridges for example than would be used with standard
designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our state
university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion that the
bridges would still be in good condition if more materials were used.
An observable example of this is not far away in a gorge where we ride
our bikes and can see the underside. There are two highway bridges that
cross the gorge. One bridge is 30 years older than the other and was
built for an old highway. When they built the interstate one direction
overlaid the old highway and bridge and they built a walmart class
bridge along side for the other direction. There is noticeably less
steel on the new bridge and they have been doing constant repairs on it
as long as I can remember. Now they are doing major repairs on the
bridge because it has been identified as being in imminent failure. The
only work I remember seeing on the old bridge was a new paint job.
Rod Speed
>>>> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>>> Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain. Most Americans have become spoiled by
>>> unrealistically low gas prices.
>> Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
>> spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's
>> the way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a
>> step backward, not forward.
> Quite frankly we are an embarrassment compared to other countries.
Because most of the US is much less dense population wise than places like Japan.
> I made frequent and extensive trips to Japan and it was always a
> pleasure to take efficient mass transit anywhere you needed to go.
Pity that you can fit the entire place into the space that NY occupys.
And I cant see too many yanks being happy with the tiny places they 'live' in.
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We've paid the standard taxes all our life. We've paid our dues along
>> with the dues of a lot of other people. I let the welfare recipients
>> use my roads, the least they could do is say thank you and not throw
>> trash on them.
>
> Right. Me too; however, the federal gas tax and most states' gas taxes
> are nowhere near enough to cover the entire cost of road and bridge
> construction and maintenance.
Back when California had the best roads in the country ALL state gas
taxes went to road creation/maintenance. Then some vicious bastards
introduced an initiative to transfer some amount of gas tax money to the
general fund and the feeble-minded idiots voted it in. At that point
our roads started to go downhill. Then later on some other jerks put up
an initiative (referendum?) to add some transportation-only gas tax and
the idiots voted that in too. They didn't happen to notice that
"transportation" included trains, etc., no matter how inefficient they
might be.
Somebody in a letter to the editor did the math (or claimed to, anyway)
showing that considering all costs each passenger-trip on the gold line
costs $65. No idea if it's true, but I don't see why it couldn't be.
> A lot of the money spent by many states on
> road and bridge maintenance comes from sources other than gas taxes.
I suspect that mixing up the sources of funding for ALL government
operations muddies the waters sufficiently that they can always convince
the feeble-minded idiots that no matter what the problem is a new tax
can solve it. Since those idiots don't pay income taxes anyway, why NOT
vote for it?
> Same for the feds. In order to pay for all the billions of dollars in
> long-delayed road and bridge maintenance that's occurring nation-wide,
> gas taxes need to go up a lot, or other federal budgets need to be
> tapped, there's o way around it. Rebuilding that bridge in Minnesota,
> that collapsed last August has to be paid somehow, and that's just one
> bridge.
Tough. California pays more tax to the feds than it gets back and our
infrastructure is in rotten shape too -- and we have EARTHQUAKES.
> Just in the past two weeks, Governor Rendell put out a report that
> something like 1,800 bridges in Pennsylvania are in serious need of
> repair ... yet he said he doesn't have the money in his budget to fix
> all of them this year. So who do you think should pay for all those
> bridge repairs? Where is the money going to come from? Further, what
> makes you think other states aren't in a similar situation?
I'm sure they are. So let's see what fat our lawmakers can cut out in
order to fix the stuff that REALLY needs fixing. Surely that bridge to
nowhere wasn't the only bit of fluff...
--
Cheers,
Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
He's your god. They're your rules. *You* burn in hell!
The Real Bev
> <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
>>spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
>>way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
>>backward, not forward.
>
> Absolutely not. We're going to Norway next week and will be using
> public transportation for ALL our travel. We are traveling throughout
> the country - including the Arctic Circle.
>
> If America would spend some money on its own infrastructure, instead
> of wasting it on destroying the infrastructures of other countries,
> then you would see public transportation as essential and efficient.
For some things, sure. But not if you value privacy and the ability to
make your own choices about where and when you go.
I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure, though.
If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
> Other countries have high speed bullet trains, metro systems, bus
> systems, etc., that work quite well. In fact, America used to have
> wonderful public transportation (trains, buses and electric cable cars
> were the norm), before the car came along. There was a time I could
> hop on a train and be in the Adirondacks (3 hours from my house) in
> the same amount of time (or less) than it takes in a car. But that was
> in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
How old did you say you were? No wonder you're not driving any more.
> Now we've gone backwards, and I
> have to use a gas-guzzling car, do my own driving, sit in traffic
> jams, and then find places to park.
I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to Death
Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to Death Valley.
I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to
transfer a couple of times, miss a few connections and have overnight
layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
And why would I want to do that? The whole point of Death Valley is
isolation...
clams_casino
>Right. Me too; however, the federal gas tax and most states' gas taxes
>are nowhere near enough to cover the entire cost of road and bridge
>construction and maintenance.
>
Furthermore, gas taxes don't begin to cover the military costs of
protecting oil sources.
IMO, such military costs should be paid for via gas taxes.
The Real Bev
> When they built
> the interstate highway system they decided to go for show so their
> budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a good road they
> decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using less steel and
> concrete on the bridges for example than would be used with standard
> designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our state
> university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion that the
> bridges would still be in good condition if more materials were used.
Theory had it that the interstate system was built primarily for defense
rather than civilian purposes. Perhaps it was expected that most of it
would be destroyed in the coming nuclear holocaust anyway and it would
be stupid to build for the ages.
Duck and cover. DROP!
--
Cheers,
Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
You know how dumb the average person is?
Well, by definition, half are *even dumber*!
Jeff
news:XSg3k.49$aE5...@newsfe07.lga:
> George wrote:
>
>> When they built
>> the interstate highway system they decided to go for show so their
>> budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a good road they
>> decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using less steel and
>> concrete on the bridges for example than would be used with standard
>> designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our state
>> university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion that the
>> bridges would still be in good condition if more materials were used.
>
> Theory had it that the interstate system was built primarily for defense
> rather than civilian purposes. Perhaps it was expected that most of it
> would be destroyed in the coming nuclear holocaust anyway and it would
> be stupid to build for the ages.
>
> Duck and cover. DROP!
>
The interstate highway circling town was originally built in the late 60's
and lasted about 30 years before it was decided that it was worn enough to
warrant replacement. The quality of the replacement was dreadful. They
didn't bother to properly line up where the sections meet so there is a
bump and the surface is so irregular they had to grind down the high spots
to make it drivable. Now about 5 years later they are already cutting out
blocks of it to replace again.
George
> George wrote:
>
>> When they built the interstate highway system they decided to go for
>> show so their budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a
>> good road they decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using
>> less steel and concrete on the bridges for example than would be used
>> with standard designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our
>> state university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion
>> that the bridges would still be in good condition if more materials
>> were used.
>
> Theory had it that the interstate system was built primarily for defense
> rather than civilian purposes. Perhaps it was expected that most of it
> would be destroyed in the coming nuclear holocaust anyway and it would
> be stupid to build for the ages.
>
> Duck and cover. DROP!
>
Naw, just politicians trying to look good by spreading everything thin
so it looked great from a distance..
Napoleon
<bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure, though.
>If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and
Afgahnistani bridges and roads! Oh! Not to mention all the future
roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the
tax-payer money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and
roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!
>I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to Death
>Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to Death Valley.
>I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to
>transfer a couple of times, miss a few connections and have overnight
>layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in the
world? (even though Norway seems to do it). What about public
transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't
we have that efficient public transportation in America?
The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.
Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
civilized, industrial country on this planet.
-N
The Real Bev
> <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure, though.
>>If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>
> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
> roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
> repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and
> Afgahnistani bridges and roads!
Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if
there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home. If we can't do that,
figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with
life. My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.
But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan
or repair one here.
> Oh! Not to mention all the future
> roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the
> tax-payer money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and
> roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!
If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one
is about public vs private transportation. In case you've forgotten, I
favor private.
>>I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to Death
>>Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to Death Valley.
>>I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to
>>transfer a couple of times, miss a few connections and have overnight
>>layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>
> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
> public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in the
> world?
Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want. I
might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it was
better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.
> (even though Norway seems to do it). What about public
> transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't
> we have that efficient public transportation in America?
Not my problem. I'm retired. I don't go to church. I use my bicycle
for most errands. I use the car for anything I can't do on my bicycle
and I group errands. I've done this for decades, except I've only used
the bicycle since I retired in 1995.
> The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.
They thrive because they provide a service/product that people REALLY
want. Surprise: we still do, we just have to want it a little more
than we used to. We also want residential privacy. Some of us don't
want to be required to interact with people not of our choosing. Some
of us like to plant things and others of us are willing to pay the
gardeners to do it. Personal choice.
The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places. I don't. Neither
do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big
cities, but not everybody wants those advantages. That's another one of
those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.
> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
> that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
> civilized, industrial country on this planet.
Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
When you stop bitching, you start dying.
Dennis
wrote:
>Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
>that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
>civilized, industrial country on this planet.
If they truly have Universal Health Care, why doesn't it cover us?
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
Rod Speed
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
>> roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
>> repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!
> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.
Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.
Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you
go home, the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.
> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with life.
That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work either.
> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and destructive at worst and anything that makes it more
> difficult for
> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.
Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.
> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan or repair one here.
Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the answer was.
>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer
>> money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!
> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one is about public vs private transportation. In
> case you've forgotten, I favor private.
>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to
>>> Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to
>>> Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a
>>> few connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme
>> places in the world?
> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want. I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public
> transportation if it was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.
>> (even though Norway seems to do it).
Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.
>> What about public transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't we have that efficient
>> public transportation in America?
> Not my problem. I'm retired. I don't go to church. I use my bicycle for most errands. I use the car for anything I
> can't do on my bicycle and I group errands. I've done this for decades, except I've only used the bicycle since I
> retired in 1995.
>> The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.
> They thrive because they provide a service/product that people REALLY want. Surprise: we still do, we just have to
> want it a little more than we used to. We also want residential privacy. Some of us don't want to be required to
> interact with people not of our choosing. Some of us like to plant things and others of us are willing to pay the
> gardeners to do it. Personal choice.
> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.
They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.
> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody wants
> those advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.
>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different - that's why we will never have Universal Health
>> Care like every other civilized, industrial country on this planet.
> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
Then why do you savage the medical providers ?
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Napoleon wrote
>>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>
>>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful
>>> "automobile" roads and bridges here in the great US of A that
>>> could have been repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on
>>> destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!
>
>> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if
>> there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.
>
> Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.
We just didn't stomp 'em good enough.
> Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you go home,
> the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.
I'm bothered that apparently under the taliban the opium trade was
reduced to almost nothing but that as soon as they lost power the opium
came back on line. That's the only good thing I've ever heard about the
taliban.
>> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping
>> it out and get on with life.
>
> That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work
> either.
I'm not exactly in control of the situation, am I?
>> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
>> destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
>> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good
>> thing.
>
> Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.
Pity.
>> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in
>> Afghanistan or repair one here.
>
> Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the
> answer was.
You mean the election? There was no viable alternative.
>>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be
>>> repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer money that will
>>> be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh!
>>> We can't talk about the upcoming war!
>
>> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This
>> one is about public vs private transportation. In case you've
>> forgotten, I favor private.
>
>>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going
>>>> to Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA
>>>> to Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but
>>>> I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a few
>>>> connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost
>>>> roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>
>>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
>>> public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in
>>> the world?
>
>> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want.
>> I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it
>> was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never
>> is.
>
>>> (even though Norway seems to do it).
>
> Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.
I looked at google earth. Norway is only a bit smaller than California.
>> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.
>
> They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.
A lot of HongKong people moved to the US. So have a lot of Japanese.
So have a lot of EVERYBODY. We must be doing something right.
>> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are
>> advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody wants those
>> advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom"
>> things.
>
>>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different
>>> - that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every
>>> other civilized, industrial country on this planet.
>
>> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
>
> Then why do you savage the medical providers ?
Huh? I haven't seen all of them, so I can only savage the particular
ones I've dealt with. Of those, the majority have been people I
wouldn't choose to see a second time.
Good ones:
The former dentist who retired and then died.
The dental student who graduated.
The gastroenterologist who was nice and knowledgeable but couldn't help.
A number of really good nurses, one of whom was a doctor in China.
The doctors who listened and actually DID the right thing. Maybe 6.
Bad ones:
The dental student who couldn't even get cleaning right and who hurt
like hell.
The cardiologist who didn't notice the lack of blood tests for
continuing coumadin therapy.
The visiting nurse who didn't report back to the cardiologist about not
doing the tests.
The orthopedists who can't figure out what makes it hurt even with MRIs.
The dentist who hurt and put inappropriate pressure on a surviving
tooth in order to remove its neighbor, possibly causing root rot.
The doctors who decided "Well, she's pretty old, what can she expect?"
The doctors who made it obvious that they didn't give a shit.
The nursing supervisors ditto.
The managers who understaffed the nursing facility. God help the
patients who didn't have family staying with them 12 hours a day, which
wasn't long enough anyway.
The cardiologist who mistook an electrolyte imbalance for something
requiring a week in intensive care and a temporary pacemaker.
I could go on...
--
Cheers, Bev
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I bought a tape called "Subliminal Advertising"
The next day I bought 47 more.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Napoleon wrote
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>>>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful
>>>> "automobile" roads and bridges here in the great US of A that
>>>> could have been repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on
>>>> destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!
>>> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.
>> Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.
> We just didn't stomp 'em good enough.
Not even possible to do that.
>> Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you go home, the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.
> I'm bothered that apparently under the taliban the opium trade was reduced to almost nothing
Thats a lie.
> but that as soon as they lost power the opium came back on line.
It never went offline.
> That's the only good thing I've ever heard about the taliban.
They did stop people like you from getting too uppity.
>>> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with life.
>> That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work either.
> I'm not exactly in control of the situation, am I?
And you wouldnt be able to figure that out even if you were.
>>> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
>>> destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
>>> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.
>> Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.
> Pity.
No one has ever been able to work out how to do that.
>>> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan or repair one here.
>> Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the answer was.
> You mean the election?
Nope, the polls.
> There was no viable alternative.
There was with the polls.
>>>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be
>>>> repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer money that will
>>>> be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh!
>>>> We can't talk about the upcoming war!
>>> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one is about public vs private transportation.
>>> In case you've forgotten, I favor private.
>>>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going
>>>>> to Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA
>>>>> to Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but
>>>>> I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a few
>>>>> connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost
>>>>> roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>>>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient public transportation doesn't go to the most
>>>> extreme places in the world?
>>> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want.
>>> I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it
>>> was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.
>>>> (even though Norway seems to do it).
>> Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.
> I looked at google earth. Norway is only a bit smaller than California.
But a hell of a lot smaller than the US.
>>> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.
>> They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.
> A lot of HongKong people moved to the US. So have a lot of Japanese.
> So have a lot of EVERYBODY. We must be doing something right.
Yep. And not that many chose to go the other way.
Even Peng hasnt gone back permanently.
>>> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody
>>> wants those advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.
>>>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different - that's why we will never have Universal Health
>>>> Care like every other civilized, industrial country on this planet.
>>> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
>> Then why do you savage the medical providers ?
> Huh?
I've seen the utube footage, no point in denying it.
> I haven't seen all of them, so I can only savage the particular
> ones I've dealt with. Of those, the majority have been people I wouldn't choose to see a second time.
And you call that happy ?
> Good ones:
> The former dentist who retired and then died.
Very inconsiderate.
> The dental student who graduated.
Ditto.
> The gastroenterologist who was nice and knowledgeable but couldn't help.
Some are beyond help.
> A number of really good nurses, one of whom was a doctor in China. The doctors who listened and actually DID the right
> thing. Maybe 6.
> Bad ones:
> The dental student who couldn't even get cleaning right and who hurt like hell.
> The cardiologist who didn't notice the lack of blood tests for
> continuing coumadin therapy.
> The visiting nurse who didn't report back to the cardiologist about
> not doing the tests.
> The orthopedists who can't figure out what makes it hurt even with
> MRIs. The dentist who hurt and put inappropriate pressure on a
> surviving tooth in order to remove its neighbor, possibly causing
> root rot. The doctors who decided "Well, she's pretty old, what can she expect?"
Thats when you fanged him to death presumably.
> The doctors who made it obvious that they didn't give a shit.
> The nursing supervisors ditto.
> The managers who understaffed the nursing facility. God help the
> patients who didn't have family staying with them 12 hours a day,
> which wasn't long enough anyway.
> The cardiologist who mistook an electrolyte imbalance for something
> requiring a week in intensive care and a temporary pacemaker.
> I could go on...
Just as long as you're happy.
Napoleon
>Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
Typical. I've got mine, the rest of you can go to hell.
Jeff
The Real Bev
I would have thought that was obvious. Should I use shorter words?
--
Cheers,
Bev
*****************************************************************
"Why does everybody always forget the eigthth dwarf? Just because
poor old Lumpy died of cancer doesn't mean he should be written
out of history." -- RMassey