Dump the Dollar, China State TV Tells Viewers
david_h...@hotmail.com
Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people a basic
tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management experts,"
told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to convert their
holdings into yuan or a range of other foreign currencies, including
the pound and the euro.
The prospect of ordinary Chinese ditching the dollar should be less
alarming than reports that have roiled global markets of Beijing
diversifying its official foreign exchange reserves.
________________
Expect higher inflation rate, Americans!
PeterL
How many Chinese people on the mainland has US dollar accounts? Maybe
less than 1%.
Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca
> How many Chinese people on the mainland has US dollar accounts? Maybe
> less than 1%.
They may not have US dollar accounts, but they do have greenbacks in
mattresses as a fiat
currency. Most commie countries have billions in fiat currency as
citizens hedged against
the local currency imploding.
Do the math, 2 billion people times a couple hundred bux
each. . . .suddenly you have a dollar
that goes down by 95%.
Good news is the chinaman channel told us all that we should be
selling that useless, weak
as a little girl, pussy currency ASAP. I personally hope the
overstuffed, fat, lazy, stupid
americans end up in a depression that crushes the will of its
imperialistic stature.
phil scott
i hear you... however china will pull its punches because those would
easily take out the world economy, hurting china badly. the money
in the matresses is probably under a few billion dollars....we can
print that in a day (snark).
Phil scott
Rod Speed
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.
> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
> convert their holdings into yuan
Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.
> or a range of other foreign currencies,
> including the pound and the euro.
> The prospect of ordinary Chinese ditching the dollar should
> be less alarming than reports that have roiled global markets
> of Beijing diversifying its official foreign exchange reserves.
That aint the problem.
> ________________
> Expect higher inflation rate, Americans!
Wont be the end of civilisation as we know it any time soon.
Rod Speed
>> How many Chinese people on the mainland has US dollar accounts?
>> Maybe less than 1%.
> They may not have US dollar accounts, but they do
> have greenbacks in mattresses as a fiat currency.
Fuck all of them do.
> Most commie countries have billions in fiat currency as
> citizens hedged against the local currency imploding.
And the shrub is pissing trillions against the wall in Iraq.
> Do the math, 2 billion people times a couple hundred bux each. . . .
Pure fantasy, they dont have anything like that much.
> suddenly you have a dollar that goes down by 95%.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
> Good news is the chinaman channel told us all that we should be
> selling that useless, weak as a little girl, pussy currency ASAP.
> I personally hope the overstuffed, fat, lazy, stupid americans end
> up in a depression that crushes the will of its imperialistic stature.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
PeterL
> > less than 1%.
>
> They may not have US dollar accounts, but they do have greenbacks in
> mattresses as a fiat
> currency. Most commie countries have billions in fiat currency as
> citizens hedged against
> the local currency imploding.
No they don't. Foreign currencies are not freely available to the
common folks in China.
> Do the math, 2 billion people times a couple hundred bux
> each. . . .suddenly you have a dollar
> that goes down by 95%.
> Good news is the chinaman channel told us all that we should be
> selling that useless, weak
> as a little girl, pussy currency ASAP. I personally hope the
> overstuffed, fat, lazy, stupid
> americans end up in a depression that crushes the will of its
> imperialistic stature.
Then who's going to buy all those cheap Chinese toys and clothes?
Democracy Highlander
> i hear you... however china will pull its punches because those would
> easily take out the world economy, hurting china badly.
Well, this is quite a misconception. The popular myth that China need US as
a market to survive does not have any backing.
Let assume that tomorrow China decide to dump all US dollars they have and
stop any trading with US.
1. Dollar is going to fall. As a result, more other countries holding large
US reserves will start to get out of their dollars too accelerating the
collapse.
2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US factories and moved
them to China in quest for cheap labor. For example, today over 95% of all
our clothing are imported. Around 70% from China if I remember well.
The trade freeze between US and china will create a scarcity of clothes. The
demand (stay the same) will overpass the supply (30% of the original) and
this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation. The
inflation will weaken the dollar even more.
3. The US corporations with factories in China want to go out, but the
Chinese government say: "You either stay and play by OUR rules or we
nationalize the factories. You can leave but all the equipment STAY here
with the workers". China factories will keep the same level of production
while selling the coats directly on oil to Iran, Venezuela and other not
quite US friendly regimes.
4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going to decide to switch
out of the dollar as oil currency. Due to the chaotic times, it is very
likely that oil countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.
Most of what we call now "US companies" have their production facilities in
China. China is going to have exports to buy oil thanks to "US
corporations", US have first to rebuild their factories from scratch.
And the oil required to rebuild them ..... is nowhere to be found.
5. The switch from dollars to barter for oil will prompt every other country
to dump the dollars as fast as they can. The 95% of drop predicted by Bill
may not be far away from the truth once US economy collapse entirely.
Keep in mind that production is what create raw value. Trade just move raw
value from one place into another to get more raw value created by somebody
else by exploiting a local scarcity. The country having the biggest
production capacity is the country that is going to rule the world. It was
the production capacity of US what won the WWII.
One may ask:
"But if China crash US economy what they will gain in exchange for all the
dollars they are going to lose?"
Well, first of all Chine already "bought" a lot of US factories with the
money they still have. Yes, by exploiting the mindless corporate greed,
China was able to have the cake and eat it in the same time. The assets
located in China will be Chinese assets as soon as China wants it. The
ownership paper for those "investments" will worth less than his weight in
toilet paper. China ALREADY bought production assets while still holding on
those money.
Wealth it is the amount of goods and services one can afford. If all the
factories producing now for US will start working for China, the Chinese
will be able to afford to buy a lot more while Americans will be able to
consume a lot less. The balance of wealth will reverse with a flip of a
switch !!!! US will become a third world country (until we are able to
rebuild all the production capacity lost) and China an advanced nation.
US military is the best in the world because of over 50 years US had wealth
to spend to build it that way. It was the US economy backing the US
military might and not anything else. Collapse US economy and in 10 years
US military will be almost irrelevant in the world, except for the
stockpile of nukes.
So, China will win the war for the new world domination. This is what they
have to gain while not loosing anything. The single reason China still
maintain the current status quo to keep attracting more investments. To
foul more idiotic corporations to dismantle US factories and give it as
gift to them. Once the majority of US production ability is moved offshore,
the Chinese (and others) will have no single reason not to take offensive
and win the "New War" without firing a single shoot.
Corporate greed and the stupidity of conservative ideology are weapons China
can use at will against US.
Again: The single way to create new wealth is production.
The "new service oriented economy" it is just a big lie intended to hide the
truth that we are running off the cliff.
--
The world of the future will be fully democratic or will not be at all.
Democracy Highlander
PeterL
> david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
> > Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
> > a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
>
> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.
>
> > A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
> > experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
> > convert their holdings into yuan
>
> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.
It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.
The Henchman
"PeterL" <po....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e05bee86-66df-4418...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Then who's going to buy all those cheap Chinese toys and clothes?
The Europeans of course.............
Rod Speed
> phil scott wrote
>> i hear you... however china will pull its punches because those
>> would easily take out the world economy, hurting china badly.
> Well, this is quite a misconception. The popular myth that China
> need US as a market to survive does not have any backing.
Corse it does.
> Let assume that tomorrow China decide to dump all
> US dollars they have and stop any trading with US.
They aint that stupid.
> 1. Dollar is going to fall. As a result, more other
> countries holding large US reserves will start to get
> out of their dollars too accelerating the collapse.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> 2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US
> factories and moved them to China in quest for cheap labor.
Wrong again. The absolute vast bulk of factorys in China werent
built there by US manufacturers, they just buy what is produced
in chinese factorys, most obviously with the likes of Walmart etc.
> For example, today over 95% of all our clothing are imported.
Yes, but that isnt produced in US factorys in china.
> Around 70% from China if I remember well.
No you dont.
> The trade freeze between US and china
Taint gunna happen.
> will create a scarcity of clothes.
Mindlessly silly, it would produce a surplus of clothes because
what is currently being sold to the US has nowhere to go, stupid.
> The demand (stay the same)
Wont happen either. Clothes arent a necessity, people can vary their
purchases as circumstances change, keep their clothes for longer etc.
> will overpass the supply (30% of the original)
Mindlessly silly again.
> and this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation.
You wouldnt know what a real skyrocket was if one was fired up your lard arse.
What would actually happen is that the non china suppliers of clothes would be
happy to sell more to the US if china was actually stupid enough to refuse to
sell to the US anymore. And china aint anything like that stupid, even if you are.
> The inflation will weaken the dollar even more.
Pathetic.
> 3. The US corporations with factories in China
There are fuck all of those.
> want to go out, but the Chinese government say: "You either
> stay and play by OUR rules or we nationalize the factories.
They cant nationalise factorys that dont even exist.
AND they aint actually stupid enough to nationalise factorys anymore either.
> You can leave but all the equipment STAY here with the workers".
Just another of your silly little drug crazed fantasys.
> China factories will keep the same level of production
> while selling the coats directly on oil to Iran, Venezuela
> and other not quite US friendly regimes.
Which buy fuck all clothes compared with what the US buys.
> 4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going
> to decide to switch out of the dollar as oil currency.
> Due to the chaotic times, it is very likely that oil
> countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.
Mindlessly silly, at most they will use other currencys instead.
> Most of what we call now "US companies"
> have their production facilities in China.
Yes, but they dont actually own those factorys there,
they just buy what they sell from chinese factorys now.
> China is going to have exports to buy oil thanks to "US corporations",
Its going to be able to buy a lot less oil if it cant sell anything to the US anymore.
> US have first to rebuild their factories from scratch.
Mindlessly silly. They just start buying from other factorys if
china was actually stupid enough to stop selling to the US.
> And the oil required to rebuild them ..... is nowhere to be found.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> 5. The switch from dollars to barter for oil
Taint gunna happen. The most that might happen
is that other international currencys are used
instead of the USD if the USD sags badly enough.
> will prompt every other country to dump the dollars as fast as they can.
Mindlessly silly.
> The 95% of drop predicted by Bill may not be far away
> from the truth once US economy collapse entirely.
Taint gunna happen, you watch.
> Keep in mind that production is what create raw value.
No such animal.
> Trade just move raw value from one place into another to get more
> raw value created by somebody else by exploiting a local scarcity.
Not a fucking clue.
> The country having the biggest production capacity
> is the country that is going to rule the world.
It aint been about the production of goods for a hell of a long time now.
> It was the production capacity of US what won the WWII.
Yes, but there wont be another world war, nukes changed that forever.
> One may ask:
> "But if China crash US economy what they will gain in
> exchange for all the dollars they are going to lose?"
Corse they wont. Which is why they aint actually stupid
enough to do what you so mindlessly hyperventilate about.
> Well, first of all Chine already "bought" a lot
> of US factories with the money they still have.
Pig ignorant lie. They just built their own.
> Yes, by exploiting the mindless corporate greed, China
> was able to have the cake and eat it in the same time.
Pig ignorant lie. AND they got USD for what they produced, so
they will have just a tad of a problem if the USD plummets, stupid.
> The assets located in China will be Chinese assets as soon as China wants it.
They are ALREADY chinese assets, fool.
> The ownership paper for those "investments"
There is fuck all of those.
> will worth less than his weight in toilet paper. China ALREADY
> bought production assets while still holding on those money.
Which just happens to be mostly USD, because thats who
bought the bulk of the production of those factorys, stupid.
Which might just be why the yuan is locked to the USD, stupid.
> Wealth it is the amount of goods and services one can afford.
Wrong. Real wealth aint about what you can buy in goods and services.
> If all the factories producing now for US will start working
> for China, the Chinese will be able to afford to buy a lot
> more while Americans will be able to consume a lot less.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> The balance of wealth will reverse with a flip of a switch !!!!
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
If it was that easy, they'd do that, cretin.
> US will become a third world country
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> (until we are able to rebuild all the production capacity lost)
Doesnt need to be rebuilt, just start buying from other than china, stupid.
> and China an advanced nation.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> US military is the best in the world because of over
> 50 years US had wealth to spend to build it that way.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
And it continues to be the best in the world, even when the US
imports the bulk of what it consumes in manufactured goods.
If you can work out why that is so, you might just have a glimmer of a
clue about how things actually work outside your drug crazed fantasyland.
> It was the US economy backing the US military might and not anything else.
It was the strength of the US economy that ALLOWED
it to spend part of the GDP on that military system, fool.
> Collapse US economy
Taint gunna happen.
> and in 10 years US military will be almost irrelevant
> in the world, except for the stockpile of nukes.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> So, China will win the war for the new world domination.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> This is what they have to gain while not loosing anything.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> The single reason China still maintain the current status quo to keep attracting more investments.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
The chinese economy doesnt depend on foreign investment anymore, fool.
It actually depends on exports to foreign countrys now.
AND they arent actually stupid enough to kill that by stopping trading with the US either.
> To foul more idiotic corporations to dismantle US factories and give it as gift to them.
That aint how the current chinese factorys were built.
> Once the majority of US production ability is moved offshore,
That happened LONG ago, and the US economy carried on fine regardless.
> the Chinese (and others) will have no single reason not to take
> offensive and win the "New War" without firing a single shoot.
Corse they do, they lose the exports that their economy depends on, fool.
> Corporate greed and the stupidity of conservative
> ideology are weapons China can use at will against US.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> Again: The single way to create new wealth is production.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
> The "new service oriented economy" it is just a big lie
> intended to hide the truth that we are running off the cliff.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.
Manufactured goods havent been an important part of the US economy for a hell of a long time now.
Or any other modern first world economy either.
Rod Speed
>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
>>> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
>>> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
>> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.
>>> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
>>> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
>>> convert their holdings into yuan
>> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.
> It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.
But while ever the bulk of their exports end up in the
US, it aint gunna change dramatically any time soon.
Its locked to the USD for a reason.
jo...@phred.org
nospam_ex...@yahoo.com says...
> 2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US factories and moved
> them to China in quest for cheap labor. For example, today over 95% of all
> our clothing are imported. Around 70% from China if I remember well.
> The trade freeze between US and china will create a scarcity of clothes. The
> demand (stay the same) will overpass the supply (30% of the original) and
> this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation. The
> inflation will weaken the dollar even more.
While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.
Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing, our
manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase despite the
overvaluation of the dollar. If the dollar falls to a more rational
value, expect growth of U.S. manufacturing and a reduction in our
dependence on artificially-cheap foreign oil.
For clothing in particular, China has no monopoly on cheap clothing
production; a trade freeze with China would lead to greater imports from
India, Pakistan, Honduras, etc., not simply a reduction in clothing
supply to the U.S.
> 4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going to decide to switch
> out of the dollar as oil currency. Due to the chaotic times, it is very
> likely that oil countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.
The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter economy is
laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified currency basket
replacing overdependence on the dollar.
> Keep in mind that production is what create raw value. Trade just move raw
> value from one place into another to get more raw value created by somebody
> else by exploiting a local scarcity. The country having the biggest
> production capacity is the country that is going to rule the world. It was
> the production capacity of US what won the WWII.
A modern reincarnation of socialism's labor theory of value? Ignore all
factors that you disagree with philosophically, and try to make the math
work with the variables you have left.
What creates value is providing a good or service that someone wants to
buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.
--
jo...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
Democracy Highlander
> While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
> would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.
US manufactured goods ?
Go at Home Depot and look how many circular saws "made in USA" you can find.
Go into a toy store and look for Mattel. Go at Target and look at clothes.
The antibacterial cream I used 1 minutes ago in made in Korea, the mouse
and keyboard in China, computer mainboard in in Taiwan while the chair and
TV in China.....
> Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing, our
> manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase despite the
> overvaluation of the dollar.
Go into a department store. Common, try for a month to not use any made in
China product and let us know about your nude experience in the office.
> The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter economy is
> laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified currency basket
> replacing overdependence on the dollar.
I simplified the scenario. EU will not be happy with big Euro vs. dollar
ratio so will start to act, Japanese the same. In the end, a new standard
based on direct goods/oil conversion may emerge and I used a simplification
calling it barter. But if a total international trade meltdown happen, even
a real barter may not be unexpected.
> What creates value is providing a good or service that someone wants to
> buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.
Belief based empty confidence.
Spehro Pefhany
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>PeterL <po....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote
>
>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
>>>> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
>>>> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
>
>>> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.
>
>>>> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
>>>> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
>>>> convert their holdings into yuan
>
>>> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.
>
>> It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.
>
>But while ever the bulk of their exports end up in the
>US, it aint gunna change dramatically any time soon.
If by "the bulk" you mean about 20%, you are correct.
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/11/15/afx4346621.html
.. and dropping, along with the shrinking US dollar.
Since China's exports are 20% of her GDP, if US imports were to drop
to, say, half it would set them back 4% of GDP or about an entire
quarter's worth of growth.
Rod Speed
> jo...@phred.org wrote
>> While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
>> would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.
> US manufactured goods ?
Yep, like software, aircraft, etc etc etc.
> Go at Home Depot and look how many circular saws "made in USA"
> you can find. Go into a toy store and look for Mattel. Go at Target
> and look at clothes. The antibacterial cream I used 1 minutes ago
> in made in Korea, the mouse and keyboard in China, computer
> mainboard in in Taiwan while the chair and TV in China.....
Pity about all the DVDs, CDs, PC software, etc etc etc.
And while there arent too many aircraft in places like that, even
someone as stupid as you should have noticed them flying around.
Quite a lot of cars still manufactured in the US too.
>> Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing,
>> our manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase
>> despite the overvaluation of the dollar.
> Go into a department store. Common, try for a month
> to not use any made in China product and let us know
> about your nude experience in the office.
Trivial to do with cars, planes, software, etc etc etc.
>> The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter
>> economy is laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified
>> currency basket replacing overdependence on the dollar.
> I simplified the scenario.
You had your dick in your hand and were mindlessly hyperventilating.
> EU will not be happy with big Euro vs. dollar
> ratio so will start to act, Japanese the same.
They certainly wont be stupid enough to resort to barter.
> In the end, a new standard based on direct goods/oil conversion may emerge
Not a chance. At most more transactions may well be done using other currencys.
> and I used a simplification calling it barter.
Taint gunna be anything like barter, just different currencys being used at most.
> But if a total international trade meltdown happen,
Taint gunna happen.
> even a real barter may not be unexpected.
How odd that we didnt even get that during the great depression.
There might just be a reason why we didnt.
>> What creates value is providing a good or service that
>> someone wants to buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.
> Belief based empty confidence.
Mindless pig ignorant drug crazed wanking in your case, as always.
Rod Speed
> http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/11/15/afx4346621.html
So the original mindless hyperventilation is clearly just that.
Jeff
> phil scott wrote:
>
>
>>i hear you... however china will pull its punches because those would
>>easily take out the world economy, hurting china badly.
>
>
> Well, this is quite a misconception. The popular myth that China need US as
> a market to survive does not have any backing.
>
> Let assume that tomorrow China decide to dump all US dollars they have and
> stop any trading with US.
>
> 1. Dollar is going to fall. As a result, more other countries holding large
> US reserves will start to get out of their dollars too accelerating the
> collapse.
It's down about 40% since W.
>
> 2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US factories and moved
> them to China in quest for cheap labor. For example, today over 95% of all
> our clothing are imported. Around 70% from China if I remember well.
> The trade freeze between US and china will create a scarcity of clothes. The
> demand (stay the same) will overpass the supply (30% of the original) and
> this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation. The
> inflation will weaken the dollar even more.
W has done nothing to support the dollar. The dollar is supported by
other nations. Note the recent collapse of the yen cary trade.
>
> 3. The US corporations with factories in China want to go out, but the
> Chinese government say: "You either stay and play by OUR rules or we
> nationalize the factories. You can leave but all the equipment STAY here
> with the workers". China factories will keep the same level of production
> while selling the coats directly on oil to Iran, Venezuela and other not
> quite US friendly regimes.
Most likely is that the Chinese economy will draw more on internal
consumption. It's on the way up and eventually (a decade or so), China
will no longer be export tied.
>
> 4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going to decide to switch
> out of the dollar as oil currency.
One of the reasons for the Iraq war. Iraq was switching to the euro and
that portended future switches by other OPEC nations.
Barter is unlikely and unneeded. Either the Euro or a basket of
currencies, the basket because it antagonizes the US less as the dollar
would be part of it. Whether there will be a switch or whether the
dollar will remain (with oil rising as the dollar falls) is unknown. I
suspect the latter.
Due to the chaotic times, it is very
> likely that oil countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.
> Most of what we call now "US companies" have their production facilities in
> China. China is going to have exports to buy oil thanks to "US
> corporations", US have first to rebuild their factories from scratch.
> And the oil required to rebuild them ..... is nowhere to be found.
>
> 5. The switch from dollars to barter for oil will prompt every other country
> to dump the dollars as fast as they can. The 95% of drop predicted by Bill
> may not be far away from the truth once US economy collapse entirely.
Highly unlikely. The next president will address the dollar instead of
pushing it off. Clinton pursued strong dollar policies and the DJIA rose
from 3500 to 11,000. Compare that to the weak dollar polices of W and
factor in the dollar is worth 40% less and it looks like all that has
happened is a transfer of wealth to the top tier that will be paid by
future generations. W added three trillion dollars (50%) to the debt
(and he's not done). Imagine what it would be if he had not inherited a
surplus.
>
> Keep in mind that production is what create raw value. Trade just move raw
> value from one place into another to get more raw value created by somebody
> else by exploiting a local scarcity. The country having the biggest
> production capacity is the country that is going to rule the world. It was
> the production capacity of US what won the WWII.
No, the world is dominated by services, not products. That doesn't mean
manufacturing is unimportant, it just isn't the dominant factor that is
was in the 40's (and before) through about the 70's.
>
> One may ask:
> "But if China crash US economy what they will gain in exchange for all the
> dollars they are going to lose?"
>
> Well, first of all Chine already "bought" a lot of US factories with the
> money they still have. Yes, by exploiting the mindless corporate greed,
> China was able to have the cake and eat it in the same time. The assets
> located in China will be Chinese assets as soon as China wants it. The
> ownership paper for those "investments" will worth less than his weight in
> toilet paper. China ALREADY bought production assets while still holding on
> those money.
China is more interested in the technology rather than the equipment.
They now have a substantial amount of transferred technology but lack
the current next generation.
>
> Wealth it is the amount of goods and services one can afford. If all the
> factories producing now for US will start working for China, the Chinese
> will be able to afford to buy a lot more while Americans will be able to
> consume a lot less. The balance of wealth will reverse with a flip of a
> switch !!!! US will become a third world country (until we are able to
> rebuild all the production capacity lost) and China an advanced nation.
>
> US military is the best in the world because of over 50 years US had wealth
> to spend to build it that way. It was the US economy backing the US
> military might and not anything else. Collapse US economy and in 10 years
> US military will be almost irrelevant in the world, except for the
> stockpile of nukes.
A ten year old stealth fighter will still be a formidable weapon. No one
is close in military aviation.
>
> So, China will win the war for the new world domination. This is what they
> have to gain while not loosing anything. The single reason China still
> maintain the current status quo to keep attracting more investments. To
> foul more idiotic corporations to dismantle US factories and give it as
> gift to them. Once the majority of US production ability is moved offshore,
> the Chinese (and others)
It already is.
will have no single reason not to take offensive
> and win the "New War" without firing a single shoot.
>
> Corporate greed and the stupidity of conservative ideology are weapons China
> can use at will against US.
>
> Again: The single way to create new wealth is production.
> The "new service oriented economy" it is just a big lie intended to hide the
> truth that we are running off the cliff.
It's not a new economy at all. It's really no different that the old
real estate axiom about location, location, location. Note that much if
not most of the value of a product is on the retail end, which stays in
the US.
Oddly you've overlooked that the US savings rate has been nil to
negative for a couple of years now. With home values deflating that
leaves a bubble that will collapse that is more or less tied to the
credit crunch. Unhappy times.
Jeff
>
>
clams casino
>jo...@phred.org wrote:
>
>
>
>>While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
>>would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.
>>
>>
>
>US manufactured goods ?
>
>Go at Home Depot and look how many circular saws "made in USA" you can find.
>
>
I was amused to find "made in China" stickers on stair treads and and
other finished wood products at Depot.
Cycle Surfer
personhood has lead to the destruction of the base of our economy.
Manufacturing and the middle class. Very Very Bad Times are Ahead...
The Comming Panic. From www.cyclesurfer.com
Or Thanksgiving discussion with 2 Legan men at the table. The housing
market decline, subprime crisis and the dollars
decline and mortgage meltdown are just the first small, high-risk
segments of the market to collapse. The next to tumble
will most likely be derivative dealers, hedge funds, buyout firms to
start as more and more financial market players
unravel working through the economy. Massive Corporate losses such as
those recently posted by Citigroup and General Motors will be become
more common. It wouldn't be suprising to see giants tumble to their
deaths. GM and Ford file for Chapter 11 and some stock certificates
will be nothing more than momento's to frame of a era gone by like
Bethleham Steels demise under Clinton sellout to China.
It will lead to a much lower standard of living for the masses. A
year from now holiday spending will delcine followed by the permanent
end of the retail holiday frenzy that has driven the U.S. economy
since the 1940's. The dollar could decline 50% or even as much as 90%
in the next 3 years depending the US reaction to the crisis.
We are going to see economic times the likes of which no living person
has seen. Bin Laden seems to be achieving his publicly avowed goal of
provoking the United States into overextending itself and draining its
economy. It is odd that
our enemies tell us what their intentions are and we accomidate them.
Bush will inherit the title of the worst financial steward in the
history of the US.
Finding where the money will be made in light of this probable future
must be done not only for us but for our childrens
future.
Dec 8,9 ~ Houston, Hobby Airport Hilton, Workshop ~ Comming
Opportunities in the Futures Markets for 2008.
www.leganmarketanalysis.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THIS IS A MUST READ ARTICLE
In the Realm of the Dying Dollar:
The plunging greenback threatens to cripple U.S. power. Why are the
candidates ignoring this critical issue? (**except Ron Paul)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/71888
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Financial Tsunami: Sub-Prime Mortgage Debt is but the Tip of the
Iceberg:
By now every serious reader has heard the term "It's a crisis in Sub-
Prime US home mortgage debt." What almost no one I know understands is
that the Sub-Prime problem is but the tip of a colossal iceberg that
is in a slow meltdown. I offer one recent example to illustrate my
point that the "Financial Tsunami" is only beginning.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7413
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Banks Gone Wild
By Paul Krugman
"What were they smoking?" asks the cover of the current issue of
Fortune magazine. Underneath the headline are photos of recently
deposed Wall Street titans, captioned with the staggering sums they
managed to lose.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18774.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Generalized Meltdown of Financial Institutions"
Take a Look at Professor Roubini's Crystal Ball
By Mike Whitney
Reality has finally caught up to the stock market. The American
consumer is underwater, the banks are buried in dept,
and the housing market is in terminal distress. The Dow is now below
its 200-Day Moving Average -- the first big "sell"
signal. Anything below 12,500 could trigger program-trading and crash
the market. The increased volatility suggests that
we are watching a "real time" meltdown.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18777.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saudis pay $4b for Russian arms : Saudis geering up for War.
Kommersant newspaper revealed that Saudis plan to purchase 150 T-190
tanks, 100 Mi-35 helicopters and about 20 M-2 medium-range air defense
systems from the Russian side which is worth over $ 4 billion.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=32293§ionid=351020205
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1984 ~ Ronald Reagan Advertisement ~ Peace
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jzfF6E-tx7o&feature=related
Ronald Reagan on Ron Paul..Ron Paul was friends with Reagan before it
was "cool". Back when they called Reagan and Goldwater "kooks".
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=YyXW1hb-JQg&feature=related
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guilini on freedom ~ Very Scary.. (freedom is your right to submit to
authority)..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoD57InV8-s
Cycle Surfer
wrote:
> Democracy Highlander wrote:
The only U.S manufactured good is a green peace of paper with masonic
symbols on it. And they don't want those anymore. Even things
assembled in the US are assembled of things made overseas. Hillory
represented Wal-Mart and their big port in mexico and Giuliani's law
firm the spanish company building the NAFA highway that will steal
millions of acres through immenent domain.
This is why no one is doing anything about illegal immigration. They
have no plans to, they want to disolve the border, collapse the
economy and bring on the Amero.
I keep getting these polls from polling point and they always ask what
American company I am proud of. What American company. I don't know
of 1 company that is a American company. Those companies that are
making good money such as HP do so in the global economy at the
expense of America. They are all multinational yet have great
influence over our political system. This is very wrong.
RonPaul2008.com
Jews4RonPaul.org
TeaParty07.com
Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca
> Jews4RonPaul.org
> TeaParty07.com
None of these sites exist save the top one. Forget about paul, he
wants to cut funding for israeal
by 600%. Israel enjoys a free trade agreement which was signed
before the canadian version and
is superior to it as well.
Paul is a self hating Jew in the mould of Hitler.
The Trucker
I am not haughty enough to claim that my way is the _only way_. But I'm
damned if I can _FIND_ any other way short of violence. Take a look at
the proposal at the link at the end of my signature. It is a pretty quick
read. Even if you have an allergic reaction you won't have wasted more
than 5 min. (if that).
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend
CycleSurfer
http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/ This works....
Here are 2 great aricle's by the Haaritz a Jewish Newspaper in Israel
about Ron Paul.
Does Ron PAul single out Israel.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=921350&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1
AND
The Israel Factor
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerPage.jhtml
Both written by an Orthodox Jew..
Another great article by a Jew...
Ron Paul should be the Zionist Choice for President
http://israelilibertarian.blogspot.com/
AND http://zionistsforronpaul.blogspot.com/
=======
We give much more money in our foreing policy to enemies of Israel
than Israel. All US intervention has done is make Israel appear weak
and go to the negotiating table with terrorist . Give up land that
was then used to stage Rocket Attacks.
Bush has been very PRO ARAB AND PRO PALESTINIAN.
The "Israel lobby" does not represent Jews but mostly evangelicals
hell bent on Arrmagedon. Many many Jews want Ron Paul. How is Israel
negotiating with those who want to destroy them and religion requires
they break every treaty with Israel in order to posses the land of
Israel good for Israel? The US has done nothing but make Israel less
safe and angered the Jewish Lord of Host. IT is directly against the
Prophets. The U.S. policy is against the Bible / Prophets. Isaihah
30...("The day the towers fell v 35) our strenght is to sit still and
trust the lord.
==============================================
A Ron Paul Presidency is Good for Israel and Jewish People Worldwide.
Dr. Ron Paul has a significant following among Jewish voters, and this
group exists to explain this support of those who have risen above the
fear spewed by other candidates to see the truth.
Dr. Paul is the only choice for Jews, Zionist, and Christians who
respect the rule of law, restricted Executive powers, separation of
powers, checks and balances, the Declaration of Independence, and the
U.S. Constitution.
Ron Paul is the only choice for Jews and Christians who wish to vote
with integrity and who love Zion.
Anti-Semitism has skyrocketed! According to a 2004 study by the
Christian Science Monitor by the Anti-Defamation League.
We believe that many well-intentioned organizations, such as the ADL
and AIPAC, fuel negative perceptions about Jews by lobbying the U.S.
government to support Israel and by divesting U.S. taxpayer dollars to
Israel without consent of American taxpayers. Israel would exist as a
vibrant nation without U.S. funding.
The U.S. Foreign Policy gives twice as much money to sworn enemies of
Israel.
Ron Paul is good for Israel and Good for Jews.
http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/
==================
A Word For Christians and lovers of Zion.
The G-d of Host tells us that Israel will never again disappear from
the face of the earth after the return of Exile to land of Israel.
And also we are plainly told by the prophets that making alliances for
protection rather than trusting G-d was the reason for the fall of
Israel and "The Day the Towers Fell." (Is 30:35)
"...that take counsel, but not of Me; and that make alliances, but
AGAINST MY WILL..."" Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your
SHAME, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt YOUR HUMILIATION."
"Their strength is to SIT STILL." And trust in the Lord
Isaiah 30 Clearly says that the reason for the 2,000 year exile was
not trusting G-d and paying Egypt for protection. The U.S. has been
paying Egypt and other countries Such as Saudi Arabia hundreds of
billions dollars to date. This angers G-d today just as it did 2,000
years ago.
Right action cannot arise out falsity. A SAD commentary on Christian
society endorsing a unjust war because of their "support of Israel"
that is in direct violation of scripture and the Just War Principle of
Saint Augustine.
Support Israel with Honor. If the government stops taking your money
and giving it to Egypt, Pakistan ect..that money through the Free
Market of IDEAS bring further prosperity and PEACE in Israel.
Furthermore an honest look of US intervention in Israeli Affairs has
cost Israel and made her much less safe. Forced her to give up land
to terrorist who then use that land to launch more attacks. A 2 state
solution is a solution of divide and conquer.
America Gives Aid to Countries that Persecute Christians and Even
Martyr Christians. "IF YOU GIVE A PHROPHET A GLASS OF WATER YOU
SHARE IN HIS REWARD."
====================================================
Jews Historically Libertarians
From a historic perspective, up until the 19th century, Jewish
communities of the world were self-sufficient -- with their own
schooling systems, medicine and social services. Jews always knew that
in the Diaspora they would never be at home, and in result always
expected to be expelled from one country or the next. And so it
happened: we traveled from countries with anti-Jewish policies to
those that were a little friendlier at the time and then moved again.
For that very reason, Jews never trusted their Diaspora governments
and never pledged their full allegiance to them. Independence of local
Jewish communities has been the key to Jewish survival throughout
centuries. Keeping government local and independent from a state
authority is not just the Jewish way, but also the libertarian way.
It is no accident that the founders of Western liberties and free
market capitalism were generally either Jews or often quoted Jewish
scriptures approvingly. Judaism stresses a person's free will and that
consequences will and should follow from choices. So too does
libertarianism. The Jewish ideal is capitalism tempered by charity and
sympathy.
I believe in the permanence of Israel because I believe G-d. The
Christian Right and Israel "Lobby" much like the Republican Party
have "lost their way." And are violating the principles of the faith
for the "outcome" and as the book of Job makes clear we "bring about
the things we fear."
Right Action Cannot Arise From Fraud and Injustice!
As it says on the Ron Paul Liberty Dollar!
Trust In G-d
=======================================
Ron Paul Presidency
"Is it good for Jews?"
This Jewish Internet Group Says Yes!
www.Jews4RonPaul.org
The sources for the philosophy and actions of Jews for Ron Paul are
Jewish sources. They stem from the wellsprings of Jewish tradition and
have their roots in Jewish teachings. In the Bible, in the Talmud, in
the teachings of our rabbis throughout the ages, in Jewish practice
throughout history, the concepts of Ahavat Yisroel and Hadar Yisroel
and the practices of Barzel Yisroel, Mishmaat Yisroel and Bitachon
Yisroel are hallowed.
We believe that the present foreign policy of the United States
concerning the State of Israel makes Israel less safe and harms the
reputation of the Jewish people worldwide and is counter to the
principles and practices of the Jewish faith and the Faith in the
greatness and indestructibility of the Jewish people, religion and
Land of Israel. This is Bitachon Yisroel.
Bitachon Yisroel is a faith that is built by our belief in the Jewish
G-d of Hosts and the incredible saga of Jewish history that has seen
us overcome the flood of enemies that have arisen to wipe us out in
every generation. It is this faith in the permanence and survival of
the Jewish people that, in turn, gives faith in the ultimate success
of the Jewish State. No matter how difficult, no matter how impossible
the task may seem -- if it is a good task, if it is a holy task -- it
will succeed, because it must.
The G-d of Host tells us that Israel will never again disappear from
the face of the earth after the return of Exile to land of Israel.
And also we are plainly told by the prophets that making alliances for
protection rather than trusting G-d is a sin.
But, more than that, it is just a bad policy in several ways. As
mentioned the present policy gives great sums of money to enemies of
Israel as a payment for safety. This disrespects our G-d, our Faith
and our people and is a sin. Secondly, it is unconstitutional and
unpopular.
As people who value integrity, honesty, and the rule of law that
allows us to practice our religion in freedom we should respect the
rule of law and not demand that it be broken, even for a "good
cause". As Ron Paul says "most evil done in the world was done with
good intentions."
Jews should stand behind Ron Paul because he is a man of no compromise
and character that no other candidate has. Even when doing what was
right by following the constitution is unpopular. The present policy
violates the Jewish people and faith in the following ways.
1) Ahavat Yisroel -Love of Jewry - one Jewish people, indivisible and
united, from which flows the love for and the feeling of pain of all
Jews. In the end -- with few exceptions -- the Jew can look to no one
but another Jew for help and that the true solution is a united and
Powerful State in Eretz Yisroel -- the land of Israel.
Through the history and tradition of the Jewish faith there is a
pattern of great victories after "standing still" and trusting G-d.
Then in fear making "entangling alliances" for defense against the
word of the prophets which angers G-d and ends poorly for the Jewish
people.
It was not long ago that in 6 days Israel stood against the entire
Middle East victorious. Now just a few decades later Israel has lost
its faith in G-d and is relying on political alliances which G-d is
against. (Isaiah 30).
Furthermore the unholy alliance with both with middle east countries
and in US politics with Right Wing Christians espousing a silent
holocaust of "perfection", as Ann Coulter said, violates Jewish
Hadar - Dignity, Pride and disrespects the Jewish tradition, culture,
land, history, strength, pain, people and Faith. Ron Paul's policy
protects Jewish Hadar is Pride and Dignity in being a Jew. Hadar
Yisroel.
Barzel Yisrael -- iron -- the need to change the Jewish image through
sacrifice and strength. The Galut image of the Jew as a weakling, as
one who is easily stepped upon and who does not fight back is an image
that must be changed. Not only does that image cause immediate harm to
Jews but it is a self-perpetuating thing. Because a Jew runs away or
because a Jew allows himself to be stepped upon, he guarantees that
another Jew in the future will be attacked because of the image that
he has perpetuated.
The alliance with the United States has weakened Jewish Barzel.
Israel is strong and can stand up to the world. The image of Israel
hiding behind the U.S. weakens us and further damages Jewish dignity
and pride. Israel in solidarity with each other and faith in G-d will
succeed.
Furthermore, the Israel lobby in America is a large part evangelical
Christians who have their own agenda which is not in the best interest
of Jews. Leading their silent holocaust of conversion / "perfection"
these faithful have a vision of John's Apocolypse and are marching
toward it in a self fullfiling prophecy hoping to speed it up for the
return of their "messiah." Certainly this alliance objectionable and
against Jewish interest's and a insult to our G-d.
The foreign policy and alliance for protection with the west hurts
Jewish Discipline and Unity (Mishmaat), pride, respect and Faith in
the Jewish Lord of Host.
It was the lack of discipline and Jewish unity that led continually to
the destruction of the Jewish people. It is Jewish unity and self-
discipline that will lead to the triumph of the Jewish people.
What is this Discipline and Unity? The discipline of sitting still
unwavering in our Faith of G-d and Jewish Faith, The other Candidates
deny and discount our G-d and faith, Ron Paul speaks the same answers
that the Prophet Isaiah gave.
"...that take counsel, but not of Me; and that make alliances, but
AGAINST MY WILL..."
"Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your SHAME, and the trust
in the shadow of Egypt YOUR HUMILIATION."
"They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be
an help nor profit, but a SHAME, and also a REPROACH."
"...to a people that SHALL NOT PROFIT THEM."
"Their strength is to SIT STILL." And trust in the Lord not in man
and certainly not to manipulate policy to pursue a unconstitutional
and unpopular war.
This can only lead to people blaming the war and all the problems on
Jews! THIS POLICY IS VERY BAD FOR JEWISH PEOPLE AND ISRAEL.
IN THE DAY OF THE GREAT SLAUGHTER,
WHEN THE TOWERS FALL" (Isa 30:25)
Ron Paul does consider Israel our friend. Knowing that Ron Paul would
require a declaration of war and then come and kick butt and take no
names is much scarrier in my opinion for countries like Iran than the
present policy.
The U.S. military is weak and world image ruined because of all the
deployments in this unjust war. Israel is much less safe than before.
There are more terrorists than before and the enemies of Israel are
being armed with money they receive from the U.S. as a bribe for
peace.
The United States is in severe debt and currency is collapsing. Oil
is near 100 dollars. If the economy does collapse or WW3 does break
out, who will the world blame in the end? Jews and Israel!
Not only does the Republican and Democrat foreign policy toward Israel
less safe, it is immoral because it is against the constitution and
law of the land, It is bankrupting the land and costing innocent lives
which again will be blamed on Jews.
A German Historian once wrote that what man learns from history is
that mankind learns nothing from history. This scenario has played
out many times in history and every time it has ended with Jews being
blamed for all the problems.
Ron Paul is Good For Israel, Good For Peace in Jerusalem, and Good for
the image and reputation of the Jewish people.
CycleSurfer
> Correctionhttp://www.jews4ronpaul.org/ This works....
>
> Here are 2 great aricle's by the Haaritz a Jewish Newspaper in Israel
> about Ron Paul.
>
> AND
> The Israel Factorhttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerPage.jhtml
>
> Both written by an Orthodox Jew..
> Another great article by a Jew...
IF American Jews don't stand up against this foreing policy. Anti-
Semitism will continue to skyrocket.
Already in Brittan it is getting very bad with brutal attacks on
Jewish Schoolchildren. If the Jewish community is silent about this
foreing policy that is destroying this country for the so called
"Israel lobby" then they will be guilty by remaining silent.
American Christians and Jews would financially support Israel
(especially since their tax dollars would be no longer taken away to
give to Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt... ect...) It is a net benefit for
Israel if they ween themselves of the US "Teet". Our breast milk is
poisend anyway... we are in bed with the great whore of babylon..
Though Shall not be a Victim
Though Shall not be a Perpetrator
Above all else though shall not be a bystander
~ Jewish holocaust survivor
CycleSurfer
By Ron Paul...
January 22, 2007
Former President Carter's new book about the ongoing conflict between
Israel and Palestine has raised the ire of Americans on two sides of
the debate. I say "two sides" rather than "both sides," because there
is another perspective that is never discussed in American politics.
That perspective is the perspective of our founding fathers, namely
that America should not intervene in the internal affairs of other
nations.
Everyone assumes America must play the leading role in crafting some
settlement or compromise between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
But Jefferson, Madison, and Washington explicitly warned against
involving ourselves in foreign conflicts.
The conflict in Gaza and the West Bank is almost like a schoolyard
fight: when America and the world stand watching, neither side will
give an inch for fear of appearing weak. But deep down, the people
who actually have to live there desperately want an end to the
violence. They don't need solutions imposed by outsiders. It's easy
to sit here safe in America and talk tough, but we're not the ones
suffering.
Practically speaking, our meddling in the Middle East has only
intensified strife and conflict. American tax dollars have
militarized the entire region. We give Israel about $3 billion each
year, but we also give Egypt $2 billion. Most other Middle East
countries get money too, some of which ends up in the hands of
Palestinian terrorists. Both sides have far more military weapons as
a result. Talk about adding fuel to the fire! Our foolish and
unconstitutional foreign aid has produced more violence, not less.
Congress and each successive administration pledge their political,
financial, and military support for Israel. Yet while we call
ourselves a strong ally of the Israeli people, we send billions in
foreign aid every year to some Muslim states that many Israelis regard
as enemies. From the Israeli point of view, many of the same Islamic
nations we fund with our tax dollars want to destroy the Jewish state.
Many average Israelis and American Jews see America as hypocritically
hedging its bets.
This illustrates perfectly the inherent problem with foreign aid: once
we give money to one country, we have to give it to all the rest or
risk making enemies. This is especially true in the Middle East and
other strife-torn regions, where our financial support for one side is
seen as an act of aggression by the other. Just as our money never
makes Israel secure, it doesn't buy us any true friends elsewhere in
the region. On the contrary, millions of Muslims hate the United
States.
It is time to challenge the notion that it is our job to broker peace
in the Middle East and every other troubled region across the globe.
America can and should use every diplomatic means at our disposal to
end the violence in the West Bank, but we should draw the line at any
further entanglement. Third-party outsiders cannot impose political
solutions in Palestine or anywhere else. Peace can be achieved only
when self-determination operates freely in all nations. "Peace plans"
imposed by outsiders or the UN cause resentment and seldom produce
lasting peace.
The simple truth is that we cannot resolve every human conflict across
the globe, and there will always be violence somewhere on earth. The
fatal conceit lies in believing America can impose geopolitical
solutions
================
The REAL REASON RON PAUL IS ATTACKED. ONLY HE , KUCINICH AND DODD ARE
NOT CFR MEMBERS OR CONTROLLED. EVEN THE CHRISTIAN FURHER HEIL
HUCKSTER IS ENDORSED BY THE CFR..
THE ONE WORLD CABAL..
CycleSurfer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Yahoo News
But, speaking in Paris just hours before his scheduled arrival in the
U.S., Prince Saud warned Israelis that they would have no peace until
Israel withdrew from Arab territories captured in the 1967 war. Saud,
who will be the highest ranking Saudi to ever attend a peace
conference with the Jewish state, added that he would not shake the
hand of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert or make a symbolic visit to
Jerusalem before a peace deal. "The hand that has been extended to us
has been a fist so far," he said. He warned Israelis against seeking a
surrender, adding, "We don't need a Versailles for the Arab world, a
peace that will only be an instigator of future wars."
Still think the U.S, should be involved in Israel. Like I said the US
policy is pro Arab and puts Israel in Danger.
How stupid are people? This is Crazy...
_____________
Rod Speed
> Can We Achieve Peace in the Middle East?
> By Ron Paul...
> January 22, 2007
> Former President Carter's new book about the ongoing conflict between
> Israel and Palestine has raised the ire of Americans on two sides of
> the debate. I say "two sides" rather than "both sides," because there
> is another perspective that is never discussed in American politics.
> That perspective is the perspective of our founding fathers, namely
> that America should not intervene in the internal affairs of other nations.
> Everyone assumes America must play the leading role in crafting
> some settlement or compromise between the Israelis and the
> Palestinians. But Jefferson, Madison, and Washington explicitly
> warned against involving ourselves in foreign conflicts.
Using that mindless line, the US wouldnt have gotten involved in WW1 or
WW2 and the world would be a VERY different place now if it had not.
CycleSurfer
Bullshit,
Germany was sinking our ships, Act of War... And we were attacked
by Japan.
And , Germany DECLARED WAR ON US.. And that is the tip of the
iceburg.
I can only assume you went to public school from your ability to
reason.
clams casino
and only up to 3rd grade.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> CycleSurfer <homerun...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Can We Achieve Peace in the Middle East?
>>> By Ron Paul...
>>> January 22, 2007
>>> Former President Carter's new book about the ongoing conflict between
>>> Israel and Palestine has raised the ire of Americans on two sides of
>>> the debate. I say "two sides" rather than "both sides," because there
>>> is another perspective that is never discussed in American politics.
>>> That perspective is the perspective of our founding fathers, namely
>>> that America should not intervene in the internal affairs of other nations.
>>> Everyone assumes America must play the leading role in crafting
>>> some settlement or compromise between the Israelis and the
>>> Palestinians. But Jefferson, Madison, and Washington explicitly
>>> warned against involving ourselves in foreign conflicts.
>> Using that mindless line, the US wouldnt have gotten involved in WW1 or
>> WW2 and the world would be a VERY different place now if it had not.
> Bullshit,
Fact.
> Germany was sinking our ships, Act of War...
Pig ignorant lie with WW1 particularly.
> And we were attacked by Japan.
Pity about the US involvement in WW2 before that happened.
AND the Jap attack was the direct result of the US getting involved
in oil sanctions against Japan as a result of Nanking etc anyway.
If the US had not imposed oil sanctions on Japan, and had not got
involved in interferring outside its own country, Japan would not have
attacked the US. And there is the tiny matter of what Perry got up
to in 1854 too. AND the Japs wouldnt have attacked the US at all if
the US hadnt grabbed Hawaii and the Philipines etc previously anyway.
> And , Germany DECLARED WAR ON US..
Because the US was supporting england and russia so aggressively.
> And that is the tip of the iceburg.
Nope.
> I can only assume you went to public school from your ability to reason.
Just goes to show how stupid your assumptions are then doesnt it child ?
CycleSurfer
>
" Because the US was supporting england and russia so aggressively."
times to support our allies with trade.
The Japs would not have attacked us at all is true.. It was more
because we build Air bases within a few hudred miles of their
coastline to bait them into attacking us.
However on both cases you make a assumption based on absolutely
nothing. Would the US be better or worse off if we had not been
involved in WW1? I contend much better. WW1 brought on the
condidtions for the 1913 Federal Reserve act and the 1930 bankrupcy of
America and is the starting point the economic chasim we will fall
into in the next few years.
We would have been in WW2 because of the declaration of war and
sinking of our ships. However, we would not have been in VIETNAM,
KOREA, and the countless other police actions that we LOST. We would
not be percieved as bullys and more hated than any time in our
history. Building bases the former soviet union has pissed them off,
they have withdrew from all treaties and we again have 23000 nuclear
missles pointing at us.
You have the hubris of the neo-cons not facing reality that we are no
longer a world power, our economy and military are very weak and over
extended. Strength is speaking softly and carrying a big stick.
Being a bully and mucking around is weakness, our military is weak,
over extended.
Screw the rest of the world. They are adults and can take care of
themselves. The US isn't anyones Messiah who is supposed to sacrifice
himself for them. Get off the Cross ~ Marterdom is ignorance.
"Make the other poor dumb bastard die for their country". Gen G.S.
Patton.
mercuryinfe...@gmail.com
> htt
>
> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people a basic
> tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
>
> told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to convert their
> the pound and the euro.
>
> The prospect of ordinary Chinese ditching the dollar should be less
> alarming than reports that have roiled global markets of Beijing
> diversifying its official foreign exchange reserves.
>
Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people a basic
tip on how to live longer. They were told to stop breathing, drinking
and eating.
A state news program, quoting unnamed "health management experts,"
told residents who live on the Chinese mainland to stop breathing the
polluted air, stop drinking the polluted water and stop eating the
insecticide and chemical laden food.
Expect higher cancer rates, Chinese.
"Grim health price for China's growth - cancer, cardiovascular
diseases."
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2007/200711/20071128/article_339626.htm
Rod Speed
>>>>> January 22, 2007
>>> Bullshit,
>> Fact.
> And , Germany DECLARED WAR ON US..
>> Because the US was supporting england and russia so aggressively.
> Support is different than intervention.
Pity about the earlier US intervention in WW1.
> Ron Paul has said many times to support our allies with trade.
Pity that Lend Lease was nothing like that.
> The Japs would not have attacked us at all is true.. It was
> more because we build Air bases within a few hudred miles
> of their coastline to bait them into attacking us.
Nope, the only reason the Japs attacked the US was because
the oil sanctions meant that Japan was going to run out of oil
quite quickly and it was important to get access to the oil from
Indonesia before they ran out of what they had stocks of.
Without the oil sanctions, there was no need for the Japs
to attack the US in an attempt to wipe out the pacific fleet
so they could invade Indonesia and get access to oil again.
> However on both cases you make a assumption based on absolutely nothing.
No assumption whatever involved with the long history of
US involvment in foreign conflicts LONG before even WW1.
> Would the US be better or worse off if we had not
> been involved in WW1? I contend much better.
Irrelevant to that line you ran about what Jefferson,
Madison, and Washington explicitly warned against.
> WW1 brought on the condidtions for the 1913 Federal
> Reserve act and the 1930 bankrupcy of America
There was no bankruptcy of America in 1930. There was
JUST a great depression which the US economy survived fine.
> and is the starting point the economic
> chasim we will fall into in the next few years.
Just another of your silly little hysterical fantasys.
> We would have been in WW2 because of the
> declaration of war and sinking of our ships.
Pity that none of that would have happened if the
US had not gotten involved in foreign conflicts.
> However, we would not have been in VIETNAM, KOREA,
> and the countless other police actions that we LOST.
Korea wasnt lost. Neither was Haiti, Yugoslavia, etc etc etc.
> We would not be percieved as bullys and
> more hated than any time in our history.
Pity about WW1 and WW2 that didnt produce that result.
> Building bases the former soviet union has pissed them off,
Who cares ?
> they have withdrew from all treaties
Pig ignorant lie.
> and we again have 23000 nuclear missles pointing at us.
Pig ignorant lie.
> You have the hubris of the neo-cons not facing
> reality that we are no longer a world power,
Have fun listing a single country that has more military power.
> our economy and military are very weak and over extended.
Still leaves everyone else's for dead, child.
The economy in spades. Its STILL where the absolute vast bulk of
the full commercialisation of almost everything happens first, most
recently with software, the internet, google, ebay, paypal, etc etc etc.
> Strength is speaking softly and carrying a big stick.
Pity about what Jefferson, Madison, and Washington explicitly warned against.
> Being a bully and mucking around is weakness, our military is weak, over extended.
Still leaves everyone else's for dead, child.
> Screw the rest of the world. They are adults and can take care of themselves.
They clearly couldnt in WW1 and WW2.
> The US isn't anyones Messiah who is supposed to sacrifice
> himself for them. Get off the Cross ~ Marterdom is ignorance.
Pity about WW2.
> "Make the other poor dumb bastard die for their country". Gen G.S. Patton.
Tad easier said than done, child.
CycleSurfer
Your right America went bankrupt in 1933 as a direct result of WW1 not
1930. On Japan , either your wrong or the history channell and
history books are full of shit. We built airbases within a few
hundred miles of Japan which threatened them and goaded them into
attacking us. Furthermore, the eight-point memorandum by Lt. Cmdr.
Arthur McCollum and other evidence supports the assertion that
Roosevelt wanted war with Japan.
The Bankrupcy of the US is a matter of public record that you can look
up for yourself.
In 1933 the United States declared bankruptcy, as expressed in
Roosevelt's Executive Orders 6073, 6102, 6111, and 6260, House Joint
Resolution 192 of June 5, 1933, confirmed in Perry v. United States,
(1935) 294 U.S. 330-381, 79 L.ed 912, as well as 31 USC 5112, 5119,
and 12 USC 95A.
The bankrupt United States went into receivership, reorganized in
favor of 115 creditors and new owners. In 1913, Congress turned over
America... lock, stock and barrel to a handful of criminals whose
avowed intent from the beginning was to plunder, bankrupt, conquer,
and enslave the people of the United States of America and eliminate
this nation from the face of the earth. The goal was, and is, to
absorb America into a one-world private commercial government, a "New
World Order."
WW1 was the beginng of the FED that lead to the 1933 bankrupcy and
takeover of the Government of this country. You are living under an
illusion of America as a free republic. WE are actually a
democratic / socialist government with the Chairmen of the Fed as the
Govenor of the US.
With the Erie R.R. v Tompkins case of 1938, the Supreme Court
confirmed their success. We are now in an international private
commercial jurisdiction in colorable admiralty-maritime under the Law
Merchant. We have been conned and betrayed out of our sovereignty,
rights, property, freedom, common law, Article III Courts, and... our
Republic. The Bill of Rights has been statutized into "civil rights"
in commerce.
America has been stolen. We have been made slaves, i.e. permanent
debtors, bankrupt, in legal incapacity, rendered commercial "persons,"
"residents," and corporate franchisees known as "citizens of the
United States" under the so-called "14th Amendment." Said "Amendment,"
which was never ratified - see Congressional Record, June 13, 1967;
Dyett v. Turner, (1968) 439 P2d 266, 267; State v. Phillips, 1975
(affirmed) - created a citizenship for corporations, abstract
statutory entities which are the products and definitions of the
legislature and are fully taxable and regulatable thereby.
Thomas Jefferson's prophecy has come to pass: "If the American people
ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the
banks... will deprive the people of all property until their children
will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
So WW1 has lead to the economic destructio of the US. We are only
under the illusion of prosperity now and that house of cards is
starting to fall. Lowering interest rates will stave off the
inevitable for a little time but when it does come it will be much
worse. 1929 will look like a cake walk.
The fact you resort to Ad Hominem attacks prove that you are wrong
and know it.
Ad hominem arguments are always invalid in syllogistic logic. Ad
hominem arguments are rarely presented as formal syllogisms, and their
assessment lies in the domain of informal logic and the theory of
evidence. Your argument is based on a fallacy and red herring, and is
nothing but an emotional appeal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
America Heads for the Trash Can of History
By Paul Craig Roberts
In new books writers as disparate as Naomi Wolf and Pat Buchanan
conclude that America as we know her is disappearing. Both writers
hope, but are not confident, that enough Americans will catch on in
time to find the leadership to pull America back from the brink.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18784.htm
===========
The cold war started again and kicked into high gear. China, Russia
and the east have been meeting ever since we invaded Iraq working
together to bring us down a notch. We are seen as world bullies who
need to be taught a lesson. They will use economic weapons mostly.
Gorbachev sees U.S. missile plan in Europe targeting Russia:
Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev said Wednesday that he viewed a
U.S. plan to deploy a missile defense shield in Central Europe as
targeting Russia, not Iran.
http://snipurl.com/1ucao
===
Putin accuses U.S. of meddling in Russian vote:
Putin, drawing on resurgent nationalist sentiment ahead of Sunday's
poll, said Russia must maintain its defenses to discourage others from
"poking their snotty noses" in its affairs.
http://snipurl.com/1ucap
======================
A Dollar the Size of a Postage Stamp
By Mike Whitney
The dollar was savaged by the monetary policies of the Federal
Reserve. The Fed's policies were designed to coincide with Bush's
Middle East Crusade. They were supposed to work like two wheels on the
same axle.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18781.htm
===
Impending Destruction of the US Economy
By Paul Craig Roberts
Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers
to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the
US economy.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18787.htm
===
Ron Paul is our only hope of getting through what is comming in 2009
intact. Otherwise I see very little hope for the United States.
clams casino
>On Japan , either you're wrong or the history channell and
>history books are full of shit.
>
You are finally catching on to Rod.
Rod Speed
> Your right America went bankrupt in 1933
No it didnt.
> as a direct result of WW1
No it didnt.
> not 1930. On Japan , either your wrong or the
> history channell and history books are full of shit.
Or you are.
> We built airbases within a few hundred miles of Japan
> which threatened them and goaded them into attacking us.
The real reason Japan attacked the US was because of the
sanctions that the US applied as a result of what Japan got
up to in China and Nanking in particular. That meant that
Japan needed an alternative source of oil, because they
had previously got most of their oil from the US. So they
decided to take Indonesia from the Dutch, to get access
to that oil, and the realised that they wouldnt be able to do
that unless they wiped out the US Pacific Fleet. And that is
what Pearl Harbor was about, attempting to wipe out the
US Pacific Fleet so Japan could invade Indonesia and get
access to the oil that was available there.
Without the oil sanctions, there would have been no
need to attempt to seized Indonesia from the Dutch
for the oil, and no need to attack the US either.
It was well recognised in Japan that attacking the US was a
very risky venture, but the Japs decided that they had no choice
once oil sanctions were applied and that they had better attempt
to grab Indonesia while they still had enough oil on hand to do that.
> Furthermore, the eight-point memorandum by Lt. Cmdr.
> Arthur McCollum and other evidence supports the
> assertion that Roosevelt wanted war with Japan.
What he wanted was completely irrelevant, if Japan had not attacked
the US at Pearl Harbor, he would not have gotten war with Japan.
Japan was only interested in occupying China until the oil sanctions were applied.
> The Bankrupcy of the US is a matter of public record
Pigs arse it is. Countrys cant go bankrupt.
> that you can look up for yourself.
> In 1933 the United States declared bankruptcy,
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> as expressed in Roosevelt's Executive Orders 6073, 6102, 6111,
> and 6260, House Joint Resolution 192 of June 5, 1933, confirmed
> in Perry v. United States, (1935) 294 U.S. 330-381, 79 L.ed 912,
> as well as 31 USC 5112, 5119, and 12 USC 95A.
None of which even mention bankruptcy.
> The bankrupt United States went into receivership,
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> reorganized in favor of 115 creditors and new owners.
Bare faced pig ignorant lie. There were no new owners.
> In 1913, Congress turned over America... lock, stock and barrel to
> a handful of criminals whose avowed intent from the beginning was
> to plunder, bankrupt, conquer, and enslave the people of the United
> States of America and eliminate this nation from the face of the earth.
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> The goal was, and is, to absorb America into a one-world
> private commercial government, a "New World Order."
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> WW1 was the beginng of the FED that lead to the 1933 bankrupcy
There never ever was any bankruptcy.
> and takeover of the Government of this country.
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> You are living under an illusion of America as a free republic.
You are living in a pathetic little pig ignorant drug crazed fantasyland.
> WE are actually a democratic / socialist government
So is every other modern first world country.
> with the Chairmen of the Fed as the Govenor of the US.
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
<reams of even sillier mindless silly shit flushed where it belongs>
> Ron Paul is our only hope of getting through what is comming in 2009 intact.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant hysterical fantasys.
> Otherwise I see very little hope for the United States.
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
You're just another drug crazed raving loon that doesnt have a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.