Plastic grocery bag debate question
pc
I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry home
a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
[which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I
use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
biodegradable bag!
hchi...@hotmail.com
>Greetings group..
>
>I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
And the proposed alternative is...?
Rod Speed
> Greetings group..
>
> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>
> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry
> home a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy plastic garbage bags all the time anyways
Mostly, because the supermarket bags arent big enough.
> [which brings up a lot of other issues]?
Nope, those end up in landfill and not in the environment.
> Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
Not a lot, just that one issue.
> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come
> up with an inexpensive, biodegradable bag!
Already been done. They want to ban them anyway.
sarge137
Banning these bags is a classic example of useless "feel good"
legislation, that just creates inconvenience and bigger problems down
the line.
The city council where I live had a public hearing last year on this
very subject. As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
these bags for. Fortunately the measure failed unanimously.
Like you, when I don't need a bag I tell the clerk to keep it. I
reuse about 80% of the plastic bags that come into my house.
Sometimes more than once. Paper bags, and reusable cloth or mesh bags
aren't a good substitute for most of those uses. I like the idea of
biodegradable plastic bags, but not until they are as durable as the
real thing. My grocery store experimented with them a while ago and
they didn't last more than a week or two. Half full bags would rip
when you picked them up.
Regards,
Sarge
George
No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive logoed
reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.
clams_casino
It all comes down to where you want your pollution. Cities want to
keep it out of their back yard & back at the paper mill, so they like
paper. Plastic bags can be made with minimal pollution, but end up in
the land fills.
Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
over and over.
pc
So..you buy the canvas bags to lug groceries home and buy garbage bags
for all your house pails?
larry
Dallas Krogers now sell $1 each reusable 100% non-woven
polypropylene bags to replace the plastic/paper bags. A bag
will fit 6 standing 2 liter bottles and is 1 inch taller.
They also have a $3 insulated bag. Kroger credits 5 cents
each time you use the bag.
I shopped for inexpensive ~canvas~ totes like this for 20
years. But $9 in quantity just never cut it. Our 3 bags
easily carry what used to fill 10 plastic bags (15, since
1/2 of those were double bagged). And they are getting a
lot more use than just at Krogers, they are great bags. We
keep them in the car, ready for use.
Wish someone would have done this when the great
paper/plastic debate started! We would have saved many
trees, both wood and plastic ;-) Europeans used store totes
for many many years.
The bag maker site is http://www.earthwisebags.com
-- larry / dallas
hchi...@hotmail.com
<PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
>over and over.
...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and positive
environmental impact from not using plastic. (not to mention the waste
of increasingly scarce water in some cities)
Environmentalism is largely a shell game, and often played for
nefarious reasons. A manufacturer of cloth bags, or an environmental
group that stands to gain in selling hugely overpriced eco-friendly
bags is more than likely at the root of the money trail.
val189
>
> ...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
> heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
> or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and
Aw c'mon - having an extra bag it the washer and hanging it out on the
fencepost to dry adds no expense. But I get your point.... although,
what's obliviate? :))
More supermarkets should offer easy access recycling bins for paper
and plastic bags, and for those @$#%$ foam trays too. Many people
will recycle if it's made convenient.
My local health food store takes plastic bags gladly. They're not
fools - they never buy bags and like to think they're helping the
trash problem.
Lou
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:fiSij.9013$OC1....@newsfe20.lga...
If it's OK to reuse a cloth bag, why isn't it OK to reuse a plastic bag?
pc
But..how do you deal with your household garbage? Do you just throw
everything into the household cans and then into a larger garbage bin?
And then either take the bin to the dump, or put it out for pickup?
Then do you have to scrub out the various household cans?
If I felt confident enough in my garbage collectors, I'd gladly just put
everything in without a bag. But, they have a tendency to strew things
about. If I had everything loose in the bin I think it would not be good.
clams_casino
never suggested not to. In fact, I suggested "Key is to reuse often
and/or use neither....."
clams_casino
All our glass & cans as well as most paper items & plastic bottles are
recycled via curbside pickup. The containers only need to be rinsed -
not scrubbed, etc.
>
> If I felt confident enough in my garbage collectors, I'd gladly just
> put everything in without a bag. But, they have a tendency to strew
> things about. If I had everything loose in the bin I think it would
> not be good.
We do use plastic bags for what's left. We recycled all our plastic
grocery bags via wrapping (water proofing) items we sell via eBay and
the few paper bags we get are used to hold the recycleable scrap paper,
mailing circulars, shredded bills/ mail, etc although most of our bills
are now electronic..
Shawn Hirn
"Lou" <lpogoda...@comcast.net> wrote:
Plastic bags are re-used. All the supermarkets in my area have a bin or
two at the front where customers can drop off clean plastic bags to be
recycled.
Shawn Hirn
<921f68af-02e2-4c6b...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
val189 <gweh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 7:10 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > ...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
> > heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
> > or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and
>
> Aw c'mon - having an extra bag it the washer and hanging it out on the
> fencepost to dry adds no expense. But I get your point.... although,
> what's obliviate? :))
>
> More supermarkets should offer easy access recycling bins for paper
> and plastic bags, and for those @$#%$ foam trays too. Many people
> will recycle if it's made convenient.
I totally disagree. In my office suite there are at least fifty people.
Each office has a white bin to recycle paper and other bin for
non-recyclable trash. Many of my colleagues just use their white
recycling bin as another trash can. When I ask them why they don't make
the simple effort to drop ONLY their recyclables in the recycling bin,
they just shrug and say they don't think about it. This has been
happening for many years where I work.
Out by the elevator, there's a trash can for food waste right next to
separate recycling barrels for glass, tin can, and plastic. The trash
can is often used to throw away items that could and should have been
recycled, even though the recycling bin is RIGHT NEXT TO THE TRASH CAN,
and clearly labeled.
Some people are just thoughtless and lazy. If I am waiting for an
elevator, I will transfer recyclable items from the trash can to the
appropriate recycling bin, but it would be better if people just did
this on their own instead of being lazy and inconsiderate.
Shawn Hirn
<e399c3ec-75fe-480a...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
sarge137 <rboot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 3:00 pm, pc <p...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> > Greetings group..
> >
> > I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> > banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
> >
> > While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> > use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry home
> > a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
> >
> > So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
> > plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
> > other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> > [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
> >
> > I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I
> > use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
> > biodegradable bag!
>
> Banning these bags is a classic example of useless "feel good"
> legislation, that just creates inconvenience and bigger problems down
> the line.
>
> The city council where I live had a public hearing last year on this
> very subject. As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
> won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
> people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
> these bags for. Fortunately the measure failed unanimously.
The speaker who said that is missing the point. The point behind banning
plastic grocery bags isn't to reduce their presence in landfills, its to
reduce their presence on city streets.
Evelyn C. Leeper
Re-use and recycling are two different things. Re-use (e.g., take the
bag back to the store for this week's groceries) requires no additional
processing. Recycling (e.g., have the bag processed into building
materials) does.
I think the reason for banning *free* bags is to encourage people to
take only the bags they need (e.g., for garbage). I use cloth shopping
bags most of the times, but occasionally take plastic bags when our
garbage bag supply runs low. I used to have to take a bag of bags to
the recycling bin every month or so. Now I rarely do.
Note that the stores are still allowed to use plastic bags, but they
must charge for them. If people are paying, they will be less likely to
put up with the behavior one sees where each bag you get has only two or
three items in it.
Some discount stores (e.g. Price-Rite) already charge for bags. And
some of the free plastic bags are so flimsy that by the time I get them
home they already have a rip in them and can't be used for garbage anyway.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Life is complex--it has real and imaginary parts. --anonymous
m...@privacy.net
> As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
>won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
>people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
>these bags for.
But cant you buy corn based garbage bags that WILL
breakdown in a landfill?
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
>
> But cant you buy corn based garbage bags that WILL
> breakdown in a landfill?
No. You can buy plastic bags that have some plastic and some corn and
will break down into small plastic pieces in the landfill.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.
Cindy Hamilton
> But..how do you deal with your household garbage? Do you just throw
> everything into the household cans and then into a larger garbage bin?
> And then either take the bin to the dump, or put it out for pickup?
I buy garbage bags that fit my rather large kitchen can. The cans
in other rooms receive clean paper and plastic products and do
not require liners. I dump all of the cans throughout the house
into one bag, or into the kitchen can if it's not too full when I'm
ready
to take out the trash. The bags get put into an outdoor trash can
with
a secure-fitting lid (to foil the raccoons) and I bring that can to
the curbside
on garbage day.
> Then do you have to scrub out the various household cans?
Why would you feel it necessary to scrub the can in, say, the
bedroom, which receives (in my house, at least), mainly dry
(unrecyclable) paper and plastic?
I get paper bags and the grocery store and re-use them until they're
falling
apart, at which time I place recyclable glossy paper (which must be
separated from newsprint hereabouts) into them and put them out with
the recycling.
Cindy Hamilton
sarge137
> In article
> <e399c3ec-75fe-480a-8192-f1d79d31e...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nope - he didn't miss a thing. One of the major arguments made by the
person proposing the bill was the amount non-biodegradable waste
accumulating in the landfill.
Right, wrong or indifferent he was right on point.
Regards,
Sarge
Seerialmom
I agree with some of the other posts that it's more about keeping the
bags from clogging up stuff and littering. Our city has finally
allowed these bags to be put into the recycle bin; right now I have a
HUGE bag that's holding these smaller ones. My kitchen garbage pail
is lined with 13 gallon bags, the T-shirt bag would be too small.
When I shop at the local Grocery Outlet I'd prefer using the boxes
they have; unfortunately most of these stores have taken to cutting
off the "front" of the box so you can't carry a case of cans.
But at Costco and Sam's Club...you don't get bags at all...they use
boxes or no carrying method except your cart.
And I've taken to buying eggs at Trader Joes...I just carry out the
carton in my hand.
BTW I buy 40-50lb bags of cat litter at the club stores...and lately
they've been using the same packaging material as some of these
reusable bags (like a plastic weave?). I'm saving these bags and may
make my own carry bags from them.
Coffee's For Closers
p...@somewhere.com says...
I combine the two. I usually bring my reusable bag. But
there are some times when I don't have it with me, so I receive
the disposable plastic bags then.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
Lou
"Shawn Hirn" <sr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-0F40AD.0...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article
> <921f68af-02e2-4c6b...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> val189 <gweh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 14, 7:10 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
> > > heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
> > > or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and
> >
> > Aw c'mon - having an extra bag it the washer and hanging it out on the
> > fencepost to dry adds no expense. But I get your point.... although,
> > what's obliviate? :))
> >
> > More supermarkets should offer easy access recycling bins for paper
> > and plastic bags, and for those @$#%$ foam trays too. Many people
> > will recycle if it's made convenient.
>
> I totally disagree. In my office suite there are at least fifty people.
> Each office has a white bin to recycle paper and other bin for
> non-recyclable trash. Many of my colleagues just use their white
> recycling bin as another trash can. When I ask them why they don't make
> the simple effort to drop ONLY their recyclables in the recycling bin,
> they just shrug and say they don't think about it. This has been
> happening for many years where I work.
I've worked in offices that were similarly equipped, and the whole thing is
a rather poor joke. Stayed late one night, and when the custodial staff
came by to empty the trash, the contents of both bins went into the same
barrel.
Jamie
How easy is it to take them with you to the store all the time? Most
of these bags are too small. I have a Target Visa, and they sent me a
Target bag. I never take it to stores because it's not big enough for
groceries. It's not even big enough to use as a beach bag, and if I
had a child in school he or she probably could not use it for a book
bag!
I, too, use my grocery store and other store (Target, Rite Aid, etc)
bags for garbage liners because it's easier than buying garbage liners
all the time. I recycle these bags once my drawer in which I keep
them becomes too full.
Shawn Hirn
"Lou" <lpogoda...@comcast.net> wrote:
They do that where I work too, but the recyclables are each in separate
bags from the trash, then the bags go into separate bins in the shipping
area where I work. I know for a fact that our recyclables get recycled
because the recycled material is sold and the revenue is reported each
year by that department in our annual report.
Evelyn C. Leeper
> Are those vinyl bags they suggest using really a good alternative?
> How easy is it to take them with you to the store all the time? Most
> of these bags are too small. I have a Target Visa, and they sent me a
> Target bag. I never take it to stores because it's not big enough for
> groceries. It's not even big enough to use as a beach bag, and if I
> had a child in school he or she probably could not use it for a book
> bag!
I much prefer cloth bags. The heavier vinyl can be re-used, but
eventually the corner of something pokes through them, or the handles
tear, or something. I have three heavy cloth bags someone gave my
mother that are great. I can put a dozen cans (or more) in one and not
worry about the bag tearing, and if they get dirty, I just throw them in
the washing machine.
Also, the thick cloth provides insulation so that frozen foods don't
thaw as much in the car. (Remember when stores used to provide
insulated bags?) In the summer, I actually take a small insulated
cooler with me which will hold a large container of ice cream or a few
smaller frozen items.
pc
Interesting observation. And it has a ring of truth in it, AFAIAC.
..PC
John Savage
>Our city has finally
>allowed these bags to be put into the recycle bin; right now I have a
>HUGE bag that's holding these smaller ones.
Just when yours allows it, another stops it:
Linkname: My local council has told us to stop putting plastic carrier
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/questions/question/985/
Summary: the presence of even one biodegradable bag ruins the lot as
far as the recycler is concerned.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)