Chinese Company Denies Defect in Recalled Tires
ltl...@hotmail.com
"According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in September
2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind the tire
treads more securely, had been removed or not included on some tires.
But on Tuesday, Zhongce officials seemed defiant, saying Foreign Tire
Sales had been a client of Zhongce for nearly 10 years and had never
complained about defective tires.
Company officials also suggested that the problem is tied to a surge
in American imports of Chinese-made tires, which could be harming
American tire makers.
"Chinese tires have become an important force in the international
market," Mr. Xu at Zhongce said. "A lot of people would do things in
order to cut the throat of Chinese manufacturers. I think you should
think about the issue thoroughly. All American tire companies have set
up plants in China."
Indeed, since Firestone's vast recall in 2000, the world's biggest
tire makers have rushed into China to build new plants or to team up
with Chinese tire makers, partly because of the lower labor costs here
but also because of this country's soaring demand for automobiles.
Zhongce was once a state-owned company that in the 1950s made rubber
shoe soles.
In 2006, the company had about 8,000 employees and nearly $1 billion
in sales and had signed deals to supply or team up with some of the
world's biggest tire makers, including Goodyear, Yokohama and Cooper
Tire, according to company officials."
The accusation is serious. But there is as yet serious proof that the
Chinese company is at fault.
Example. "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in
September 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind
the tire treads more securely, had been removed or not included on
some tires." Who in the Chinese company said what at when? What safety
features were missed in what make of tires?
Why can't the reporters at least secure the court document and clarify
the above? If the improter did not specify, shouldn't the reporters
also make the fact known?
Brontide
> The accusation is serious. But there is as yet serious proof that the
> Chinese company is at fault.
>
> Example. "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in
> September 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind
> the tire treads more securely, had been removed or not included on
> some tires." Who in the Chinese company said what at when? What safety
> features were missed in what make of tires?
Seems like a straight forward admission of guilt to me. The gum strip
is a safety feature required on all truck/SUV tires after the
firestone recall, a feature that the American importer was contracted
and paying for based on. Lengthy and costly testing showed that it
was probable that the tires were not made to spec and road testing
showed tread separation.
Why start a new thread on this topic?
Since you are from China, does it offend you that your companies are
defrauding the American suppliers?
-Eric
ltl...@hotmail.com
> On Jun 26, 2:16 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The accusation is serious. But there is as yet serious proof that the
> > Chinese company is at fault.
>
> > Example. "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in
> > September 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind
> > the tire treads more securely, had been removed or not included on
> > some tires." Who in the Chinese company said what at when? What safety
> > features were missed in what make of tires?
>
> Seems like a straight forward admission of guilt to me.
Are the importer dumb?
Why would he accept the product them? If you were in the importer's
position, would you accept the product knowing that the abssence of
the
safety feature would got people killed and got you and your company
into
trouble?
> The gum strip
> is a safety feature required on all truck/SUV tires after the
> firestone recall, a feature that the American importer was contracted
> and paying for based on. Lengthy and costly testing showed that it
> was probable that the tires were not made to spec and road testing
> showed tread separation.
>
> Why start a new thread on this topic?
I had raised specific issues concerning the news. You are welcomed to
address them if you wish.
>
> Since you are from China, does it offend you that your companies are
> defrauding the American suppliers?
Where I was from does not change the issue. As I see it, right is
right and
wrong is wrong. It has nothing to do with ethncity. For example, I had
bought
a wheel which was made in China. I paid $199.00 instead of $599
accordng to
GM's MSRP whihc is also made in China. If the wheel was not
manufactured according to spec and I got hurt. I would be as mad as
any other people.
I, however, are disappointed by serious accusation wihout serious
proof.
>
> -Eric
Brontide
> On Jun 26, 3:10 pm, Brontide <eri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 2:16 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The accusation is serious. But there is as yet serious proof that the
> > > Chinese company is at fault.
>
> > > Example. "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in
> > > September 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind
> > > the tire treads more securely, had been removed or not included on
> > > some tires." Who in the Chinese company said what at when? What safety
> > > features were missed in what make of tires?
>
> > Seems like a straight forward admission of guilt to me.
>
> Are the importer dumb?
> Why would he accept the product them? If you were in the importer's
> position, would you accept the product knowing that the abssence of
> the
> safety feature would got people killed and got you and your company
> into
> trouble?
If you bothered to READ you would have known the manufacturer finally
admitted to the fault only after being shown the evidence that they
collected. Before then the Chinese manufacturer repeatedly lied to
the importer when asked about the gum strip.
> > Why start a new thread on this topic?
>
> I had raised specific issues concerning the news. You are welcomed to
> address them if you wish.
Sent in to do damage control more like. Why can't you see the Chinese
company defrauded and lied and will face no consequences.
-Eric
ltl...@hotmail.com
> On Jun 26, 3:31 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 3:10 pm, Brontide <eri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 26, 2:16 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The accusation is serious. But there is as yet serious proof that the
> > > > Chinese company is at fault.
>
> > > > Example. "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in
> > > > September 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind
> > > > the tire treads more securely, had been removed or not included on
> > > > some tires." Who in the Chinese company said what at when? What safety
> > > > features were missed in what make of tires?
>
> > > Seems like a straight forward admission of guilt to me.
>
> > Are the importer dumb?
> > Why would he accept the product them? If you were in the importer's
> > position, would you accept the product knowing that the abssence of
> > the
> > safety feature would got people killed and got you and your company
> > into
> > trouble?
>
> If you bothered to READ you would have known the manufacturer finally
> admitted to the fault only after being shown the evidence that they
> collected.
As a matter of fact, I don't know what had been admitted by whom and
to whom and about what tires. As I had pointed out in my previous
post, the NYTimes reporters doesn't even bother to clarify the issue.
What does the document submitted by the importer to the court actualy
say? If you know, please inform.
> Before then the Chinese manufacturer repeatedly lied to
> the importer when asked about the gum strip.
>
> > > Why start a new thread on this topic?
>
> > I had raised specific issues concerning the news. You are welcomed to
> > address them if you wish.
>
> Sent in to do damage control more like. Why can't you see the Chinese
> company defrauded and lied and will face no consequences.
The above is nothing but your own speculation.
> -Eric- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
bmo...@nyx.net
All we know for sure at present is that the lawsuit contends that the
Chinese company admitted it. The courts will decide. But if it does
become clearer that the Chinese company did admit it, or more
importantly, knowingly lie about leaving out important safety
features, then I predict LT Lee will become suddenly silent on the
issue, or perhaps continue to argue disingenuously that it's all a
conspiracy against China.
> > Before then the Chinese manufacturer repeatedly lied to
> > the importer when asked about the gum strip.
>
> > > > Why start a new thread on this topic?
>
> > > I had raised specific issues concerning the news. You are welcomed to
> > > address them if you wish.
>
> > Sent in to do damage control more like. Why can't you see the Chinese
> > company defrauded and lied and will face no consequences.
>
> The above is nothing but your own speculation.
>
>
>
> > -Eric- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Chairman Mao says:
operative I will report back to the Great Hall of the People that you're
doing a good job.
Keep up the good work
<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182881764.4...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Chairman Mao says:
didn't expect those tires completely.
The great CCP is not to blame, we have a 5000 year history and are still a
developing country.
So the fault is everyone else's?
<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182886313.6...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Chairman Mao says:
It is your fault, our great leader and Marxist system and 5000 year history
of the middle-kingdom is superior to yours. You are just jealous we will
defeat you and be the next super power in the world!
(I've actually been told this by drunks with to much Pi jiu)
ltlee, Chinese products, corruption, greed, cheating and other things are
starting to get public attention now. Cheap toys and tools that broke the
first time we used them didn't kill us. However, these things are now
making us sick and killing us.
People, will stop buying Chinese and you will have to find some tricky way
of marketing them with English names and hiding the origin of manufacturer.
It will hurt your fellow communist and their rich relatives the most.
How can the rich Chinese crooks buy more villa's, Mercedes-Beamers-Hummers,
send their kids abroad, have 3 or 4 mistresses and keep the peasants poor
and under control, if we stop buying your products?
Are you shocked I understand China this well?
<bmo...@nyx.net> wrote in message
news:1182893539....@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
ltl...@hotmail.com
> The Chinese never do anything wrong!
>
> It is your fault, our great leader and Marxist system and 5000 year history
> of the middle-kingdom is superior to yours. You are just jealous we will
> defeat you and be the next super power in the world!
>
> (I've actually been told this by drunks with to much Pi jiu)
>
> ltlee, Chinese products, corruption, greed, cheating and other things are
> starting to get public attention now. Cheap toys and tools that broke the
> first time we used them didn't kill us. However, these things are now
> making us sick and killing us.
>
> People, will stop buying Chinese and you will have to find some tricky way
> of marketing them with English names and hiding the origin of manufacturer.
> It will hurt your fellow communist and their rich relatives the most.
>
> How can the rich Chinese crooks buy more villa's, Mercedes-Beamers-Hummers,
> send their kids abroad, have 3 or 4 mistresses and keep the peasants poor
> and under control, if we stop buying your products?
>
> Are you shocked I understand China this well?
To tell the truth, I don't detect much understanding. The
above is not very logical. Sounds like you are repeating
other people's accusations randomly.
" ."
James
stop Americans from buying more US made cars. The only thing that
made Americans stop buying American cars was cheap imports.
Even after Ralph Nader educated the American public, it still took law
makers to make cars safer.
Eeyore
"ltl...@hotmail.com" wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/business/worldbusiness/27tires.html?hp
>
> "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in September
> 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind the tire
> treads more securely, had been removed or not included on some tires.
>
> But on Tuesday, Zhongce officials seemed defiant, saying Foreign Tire
> Sales had been a client of Zhongce for nearly 10 years and had never
> complained about defective tires.
Typical Asian two-faced repsonse which means....
" We changed the product (without telling you) but you didn't complain, so
therefore that means you accepted the design change ".
The only protection against this kind of thing is to have very detailed and
legally enforceable written specs in the contract.
Graham
Alex
Dumb to trust the tire company, yes.
> Why would he accept the product them?
Because the tire company was supposed to follow the design. Because
the item is not visible, so you can't see if it is missing.
> If you were in the importer's
> position, would you accept the product knowing that the abssence of
> the > safety feature would got people killed and got you and your company
> into > trouble?
Did the tire manufacturer volunteer that they were removing the
important
safety feature? The importer was probably naive to trust the Chinese
company.
> I, however, are disappointed by serious accusation wihout serious
> proof.
It sure doesn't look good for the manufacturer.
--------------
Alex
Alex
Unfortunately the governement has shown that they are not that smart
when it comes to making those laws. These so called safety laws gave
use killer air bags and make it extremely difficult to turn them
off.
---------------------
Alex
H...@nospam.nix
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4681CDE5...@hotmail.com...
> Typical Asian two-faced repsonse which means....
>
> " We changed the product (without telling you) but you didn't complain, so
> therefore that means you accepted the design change ".
>
> The only protection against this kind of thing is to have very detailed
and
> legally enforceable written specs in the contract.
>
> Graham
I agree, you must be very definite and concrete in dealing with everybody,
but with
the Chinese, the problem becomes even more important.
Last winter, I was introduced to a Chinese group which was making products
that
would seem to be interesting for the industry I work in.. I asked for more
information,
regarding composition of matter, quality control specifications, etc, which
they refused
to give.
In my case, we could have obtained the samples and determined the parameters
ourselves
BUT if they dont accept the QC procedures and limits, then it would have
been an
exercise in futility. They can do whatever they wish and claim the products
meet their own
internal specifications.
I declined to receive any samples from them. Looking carefully, their
prices, technology,
and deliverability were no better than from any other supplier, but the risk
was certainly
there.
We were just not that hungry.
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> "ltl...@hotmail.com" wrote:
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/business/worldbusiness/27tires.html?hp
>
> > "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in September
> > 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind the tire
> > treads more securely, had been removed or not included on some tires.
>
> > But on Tuesday, Zhongce officials seemed defiant, saying Foreign Tire
> > Sales had been a client of Zhongce for nearly 10 years and had never
> > complained about defective tires.
>
> Typical Asian two-faced repsonse which means....
>
> " We changed the product (without telling you) but you didn't complain, so
> therefore that means you accepted the design change ".
Can you provide some real life of example of the above "typical asian
two-faced response"?
clams casino
> The only thing that
>made Americans stop buying American cars was cheap imports.
>
>
>
Don't you mean less costly imports? My Accord will easily exceed
200k miles with a minimum of repairs, probably providing twice the
mileage of any US car I've ever owned, making it much less costly while
similar US cars are typically lower priced (initial purchase price).
ltl...@hotmail.com
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
The tire importer import 450,000.
If each tire makes $10, the deal will bring $4.5 million.
Samll capital, large profit. It is the best of global trade.
John S.
Well, you can have a contract that spells out everything from the font
size used to print the brand Telluride to the color of the radial ply
material and it won't do a bit of good if you have to enforce the
contract in a country where contract law is still being developed.
The situation with those tires is not unlike the one we have with
generic drugs. Most of that stuff is brought in by small mom and pop
operations that do nothing more than finance and coordinate the
importation and distribution of consumer goods. Most of those small
import shops hold no inventory but only act as facilitators to connect
producers and retailers. They rely on the statements about quality
from manufacturers located in countries that do not have product
safety laws comparable to ours.
Eeyore
"ltl...@hotmail.com" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > "ltl...@hotmail.com" wrote:
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/business/worldbusiness/27tires.html?hp
> >
> > > "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in September
> > > 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind the tire
> > > treads more securely, had been removed or not included on some tires.
> >
> > > But on Tuesday, Zhongce officials seemed defiant, saying Foreign Tire
> > > Sales had been a client of Zhongce for nearly 10 years and had never
> > > complained about defective tires.
> >
> > Typical Asian two-faced repsonse which means....
> >
> > " We changed the product (without telling you) but you didn't complain, so
> > therefore that means you accepted the design change ".
>
> Can you provide some real life of example of the above "typical asian
> two-faced response"?
I've experienced the same first hand.
Graham
ltl...@hotmail.com
> In article <1182948860.475634.18...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > The tire importer import 450,000.
> > If each tire makes $10, the deal will bring $4.5 million.
> > Samll capital, large profit. It is the best of global trade.
>
> Chicom tires (and resulting injuries and deaths) brings in a judgement
> of $20 million against the U.S. importer. Due to an ineffective and
> corrupt Red Chinese court system there is no recourse against the
> manufacturer. The lives and limbs that were lost, of course, cannot
> be restored.
>
> "Best of global trade" my ass.
Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
reality?
>
> --
> Roger Blake
> (Subtract 10s for email.)
Brontide
correct these "issues" ( why do we only hear about this crackdown
now? ).
"BEIJING: China has closed 180 food factories after inspectors found
industrial chemicals being used in products from candy to seafood,
state media said Wednesday.
The closures came amid a nationwide crackdown on shoddy and dangerous
products launched in December that also uncovered use of recycled or
expired food, the China Daily said.
Formaldehyde, illegal dyes, and industrial wax were found being used
to make candy, pickles, crackers and seafood, it said, citing Han Yi,
an official with the General Administration of Quality Supervision,
Inspection and Quarantine, which is responsible for food safety.
"These are not isolated cases," Han, director of the administration's
quality control and inspection department, was quoted as saying.
Han's admission was significant because the administration has said in
the past that safety violations were the work of a few rogue
operators, a claim which is likely part of a strategy to protect
China's billions of dollars (euros) of food exports."
....
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/27/asia/AS-GEN-China-Tainted-Food.php
Once again it's not until confronted with the cold hard facts does
China "fess up" to the wrongs they are doing.
-Eric
H...@nospam.nix
"John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1182949470.3...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Well, you can have a contract that spells out everything from the font
> size used to print the brand Telluride to the color of the radial ply
> material and it won't do a bit of good if you have to enforce the
> contract in a country where contract law is still being developed.
>
> The situation with those tires is not unlike the one we have with
> generic drugs. Most of that stuff is brought in by small mom and pop
> operations that do nothing more than finance and coordinate the
> importation and distribution of consumer goods. Most of those small
> import shops hold no inventory but only act as facilitators to connect
> producers and retailers. They rely on the statements about quality
> from manufacturers located in countries that do not have product
> safety laws comparable to ours.
At least when you buy your Chinese product from WalMart, you have a company
with the economy large enough to weather serious storms. When you buy
via a "mom and pop" situation, you have nothing but good wishes and perhaps
low prices.
Price is NOT everything, at the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen.
John S.
Yes, but those ultra cheap generic drugs from WalMart are not checked
for quality either.
N8N
> Oh... lookie... Chinese government has been working since December to
> correct these "issues" ( why do we only hear about this crackdown
> now? ).
>
> "BEIJING: China has closed 180 food factories after inspectors found
> industrial chemicals being used in products from candy to seafood,
> state media said Wednesday.
>
> The closures came amid a nationwide crackdown on shoddy and dangerous
> products launched in December that also uncovered use of recycled or
> expired food, the China Daily said.
What the hell is recycled food? I know what it sounds like, but I
can't imagine anyone willingly eating that product.
nate
ltl...@hotmail.com
>
> Once again it's not until confronted with the cold hard facts does
> China "fess up" to the wrongs they are doing.
Thank you for showing me the news.
But the two things are not logically related.
Let me illustrate my point:
It is a well known fact that many Amerians are criminals. As a matter
of
fact, America has the highest number of cirminal on a per capita
basis.
However, the above fact does not mean you, if an American, is also a
criminal. Other Americans being criminals has nothing to do with
whether
you are a criminal. No?
Hope it help.
>
> -Eric
ltl...@hotmail.com
> In article <1182952213.883137.210...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
> > reality?
>
>
> However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
> the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
> to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
> ethics in their culture.
What reality?
What western engineerw who have to deal with whom?
Care to show some real life examples on who have no
concept of quality control or business ethics in what culture?
Eeyore
Roger Blake wrote:
> ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
> > reality?
>
> There is no such word as "imaginstions."
>
> However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
> the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
> to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
> ethics in their culture.
Nonsense. You simply have to deal with competent suppliers.
The very best QC I've ever seen was in a Chinese factory. It was *excellent* in every way.
All Chinese companies *are not* the same.
Graham
James
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where are they from?
Generics created in Canada, Europe and Isreal have the same types of
quality control as non-generics.
James
Brent P
As an engineer who has faced the reality of doing business in china that
what Roger wrote above is the rule. The vast majority of companies in
china that I have had to deal with fit the description.
ltl...@hotmail.com
> In article <1182963507.897303.223...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > What reality?
>
> You are living in your little Red Chinese fantasy land. No doubt you
> would be taken out and shot if you did not do your master's bidding
> by for them.
>
> > Care to show some real life examples on who have no
> > concept of quality control or business ethics in what culture?
>
> any engineers who have dealt with Chicom "manufacturing" that might
> be reading this thread will have their own stories to tell.
I see.
So far, you fail to provide one concrete example.
And your only response is personal attack.
>
> Go back to your masters and tell them your shilling is not working
> here. Perhaps they will spare your life and simply send you to a forced
> labor camp where you can cheat on plastic resin specifications.
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Agree.
The real China Syndrome is this.
Many people think they know China well after a few news reports or
after they
heard something from a few friends about China.
>
> Graham
H...@nospam.nix
> Yes, but those ultra cheap generic drugs from WalMart are not checked
> for quality either.
Do they check the high end pharmaceuticals for quality? I doubt it.
I believe that the FDA has responsibility there, as well as for generics,
regardless of the source. I also doubt that, after the initial approvals
are
made by the FDA, they delve intensely into the quality control of the drugs.
John S.
>
> - Show quoted text -
But generics come from a lot of places besides those. And as we all
know europe is a very big place and not all countries have an equal
record of policing manufacturing. Ever seen a country of origin label
on a prescription? I haven't.
James
> In article <1182952213.883137.210...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
> > reality?
>
>
> However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
> the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
> to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
> ethics in their culture.
>
> Roger Blake
> (Subtract 10s for email.)
Chinese might not have business ethics but it a lot better than
American business ethics of "Screw them if you can get away with it".
Just this month the local electric utility told their customers that a
power surge destroying $thousands per household was an act of god and
not the utility's responsibility.
It's only in the past few years that B schools started offering ethics
courses. They teach what businesses can get away with without
breaking the law.
Microsoft regularly screw both its competitors and customers. That is
one reason the are so many writing virii for the fun of it.
Rod Speed
All of mine have that.
clifto
> Yes, but those ultra cheap generic drugs from WalMart are not checked
> for quality either.
The last ultra-cheap generic drugs from Wal-Mart I bought were made in
Michigan. In fact, I believe all the ultra-cheap generic drugs from
Wal-Mart I've bought were made in Michigan by Perrigo.
--
We can't possibly imprison 300 million Americans for not paying their
taxes, so let's grant all of them amnesty NOW!
Chairman Mao says:
Why is one of you posting from Raliegh North Carolina and the other
Enfield , UK ?
Are you both communist types looking to steal technology for your masters?
I always enjoy reading excuses from those enjoying the fruits of western
countries while making excuses for their abusive ones.
It's our problem that products from China are killing us now, the CCP is not
responsible.
I hope both of you have valid reasons to be outside of China and are not
involved in some type of illegal activities.
June 15, 2007 Nation/Politics
Front Page > Nation/Politics Page
Inside the Ring
By Bill Gertz
June 15, 2007
China arming terrorists
New intelligence reveals China is covertly supplying large quantities of
small arms and weapons to insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban militia in
Afghanistan, through Iran.
U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in
advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew
nothing about the shipments and asked for additional intelligence on the
transfers. The ploy has been used in the past by China to hide its
arms-proliferation activities from the United States, according to U.S.
officials with access to the intelligence reports.
Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to
Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of
ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as
well as other small arms.
The Washington Times reported June 5 that Chinese-made HN-5
anti-aircraft missiles were being used by the Taliban.
According to the officials, the Iranians, in buying the arms, asked
Chinese state-run suppliers to expedite the transfers and to remove serial
numbers to prevent tracing their origin. China, for its part, offered to
transport the weapons in order to prevent the weapons from being
interdicted.
The weapons were described as "late-model" arms that have not been seen
in the field before and were not left over from Saddam Hussein's rule in
Iraq.
U.S. Army specialists suspect the weapons were transferred within the
past three months.
The Bush administration has been trying to hide or downplay the
intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and
to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on
terrorism. U.S. officials have openly criticized Iran for the arms transfers
but so far there has been no mention that China is a main supplier.
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Wednesday that the flow of
Iranian arms to Afghanistan is "fairly substantial" and that it is likely
taking place with the help of the Iranian government.
Defense officials are upset that Chinese weapons are being used to kill
Americans. "Americans are being killed by Chinese-supplied weapons, with the
full knowledge and understanding of Beijing where these weapons are going,"
one official said.
The arms shipments show that the idea that China is helping the United
States in the war on terrorism is "utter nonsense," the official said.
<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182969058.8...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Chairman Mao says:
everything, your government is Communist right?
They have their hands in every single policy, if someone takes a shit they
need to bribe some official to get that red star stamp on the paperwork.
Therefore, the Chinese government IS responsible 95% of the time.
Who is in control is responsible.
<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182963331.3...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Eeyore
Chairman Mao says: wrote:
> True but you fail to realize the Chinese government and CCP controls
> everything, your government is Communist right?
Only in name.
There's plenty of capitalist companies in the PRC.
Graham
Brent P
China is not capitalist. If we are to shove a label on it, the closest
one would be corporatist.
John S.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Country of origin?
Alex
wrote:
> James wrote:
> > The only thing that
> >made Americans stop buying American cars was cheap imports.
>
> Don't you mean less costly imports? My Accord will easily exceed
> 200k miles with a minimum of repairs, probably providing twice the
> mileage of any US car I've ever owned, making it much less costly while
> similar US cars are typically lower priced (initial purchase price).
In my family we have had good luck with Dodge and Ford cars/trucks.
My Dodge Omni GLH Turbo had 153k miles when I sold it. The motor was
running fine. IThe original clutch had just started to slip. I also
had a Dodge
Omni GLH ( no Turbo) that had 120K when I sold it and it was still
running strong.
About 5 years later the person I sold it to sold the car again with
over 200k miles.
My father had a Ford Econoline 150 Van that went just under 300k with
only a head
rebuild. I believe longevity has more to do with how you maintain
your car.
--------------------
Alex
Alex
> What the hell is recycled food? I know what it sounds like, but I
> can't imagine anyone willingly eating that product.
I'm guess that is taking food that has expired and then re-packaging
with a new expiration date.
--------------------
Alex
Bhagat Gurtu
> The tire importer import 450,000.
> If each tire makes $10, the deal will bring $4.5 million. Samll capital,
> large profit. It is the best of global trade.
Actually it is the worst of global trade. China doesn't give a fuck about
environmental degradation - all that matters is making profit. The world
doesn't need Chinese tyres.
The Chinese banking system is corrupt as well. It won't be long before
China has a BIG crunch. It is a well known fact that Chinese will put a
wager on two cockroaches climbing up a well (before they eat them). Chinese
people view stock market like cockroach races. Big trouble brewing for you
guys.
Eeyore
Brent P wrote:
There are plenty of private companies there. Set up with western investment in
fact.
Graham
James
Reminds me of the ethnic joke about a roach and an Indian, Jew, and
English. Upon seeing a roach the English jumps up on a chair,
screams, and pee in his pants. The East Indian would catch it and eat
it. If the Jew catches it first, he would sell it to the Indian.
Brent P
Guess you don't understand what corporatism is. Not surprising.
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Please feel free to tell your understanding of China and the Chinese
people and why China's closest label would be corporatist.
Brent P
I'm not here to provide remedial education.
PaPaPeng
It seems given the results India will do well to follow China's
example. Get rich first then worry about being nice guys. By the
way betting on cockroaches beats worshipping black rats and feeding
them at the temple. I bet if I dig deeper there are even more bizarre
practices.
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Nah. You are making claims about China and the Chinese
people.It is up to you to show that your claim is a reasonable.
Of course, you are not obliged to answwer any post if you don't
want to..
clams casino
Is Food Lion still in business?
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Still around. But not independently owned.
Bought by a certain northern Europe multi-national.
Scott Dorsey
>However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
>the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
>to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
>ethics in their culture.
No, they do have these concepts. I have seen them.
BUT, with the huge explosive growth in the Chinese economy, everything and
anything are being sacrificed in the name of profits. And this means lots
of untrained people who have never heard of quality control are in charge
of manufacturing operations, and these people view it as their goal in life
to churn out products as fast and as cheaply as possible in the name of
profits. Their bosses and their employees have the same basic philosophy.
This same basic state of affairs existed in the West during the Industrial
Revolution as well, but thank God we outgrew it.
I am assuming that the Chinese will outgrow it as well someday, but I am
absolutely terrified about what will happen in the meantime.
The Chinese are capable of making high quality products. But if the customers
demand cheap crap, why should they make anything else?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey
>
>What western engineerw who have to deal with whom?
>Care to show some real life examples on who have no
>concept of quality control or business ethics in what culture?
Okay, here's a good one. Fairchild subcontracts manufacture of transistors
to a company in Beijing. They make transistors right and left. The folks
at Fairchild do basic acceptance testing on them as they come in the door,
which basically means testing the curve shape and not much else. Then all
of a sudden, someone in Beijing gets a good deal on some cheaper epoxy resin
than they normally use. All of a sudden, the appearance of the transistors
changes slightly (the cases look dull, not shiny) and the noise floor goes
through the roof at low frequencies (due to flicker noise from junction
contamination). Fairchild doesn't do noise floor testing, therefore they
don't catch the substitution. Their customers do, causing them to get very
angry. 2N5087s with date codes after E24 have to be thrown out all over the
place and existing PC boards reworked.
Scott Dorsey
>"John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>news:1182962535.8...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Yes, but those ultra cheap generic drugs from WalMart are not checked
>> for quality either.
>
>Do they check the high end pharmaceuticals for quality? I doubt it.
I have this impression of a bunch of guys sitting around in the back room
gobbling pills and saying, "Here, try this, it's very mellow...."
Eeyore
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Roger Blake <rogbl...@iname10.com> wrote:
> >However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
> >the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
> >to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
> >ethics in their culture.
>
> No, they do have these concepts. I have seen them.
>
> BUT, with the huge explosive growth in the Chinese economy, everything and
> anything are being sacrificed in the name of profits. And this means lots
> of untrained people who have never heard of quality control are in charge
> of manufacturing operations, and these people view it as their goal in life
> to churn out products as fast and as cheaply as possible in the name of
> profits. Their bosses and their employees have the same basic philosophy.
I've seen better attention to quality in China than I ever saw in the UK.
That's not to say it's universally so of course.
Graham
Gene S. Berkowitz
Google "chinese capacitor failures" to find another example, where a
poorly engineered electrolyte manufactured in China found its way into
capacitors made in Taiwan, where they then proceeded to fail on PC
motherboards worldwide...
--Gene
Scott Dorsey
>
>
>I've seen better attention to quality in China than I ever saw in the UK.
I bet you've seen worse, too.
>That's not to say it's universally so of course.
Nothing is really universally so, except Maxwell's laws and I am not always
so sure about those.
Eeyore
"Gene S. Berkowitz" wrote:
> Google "chinese capacitor failures" to find another example, where a
> poorly engineered electrolyte manufactured in China found its way into
> capacitors made in Taiwan, where they then proceeded to fail on PC
> motherboards worldwide...
How about providing some evidence that the defective electrolyte was made in China
?
Graham
Scott Dorsey
Some of it apparently was, but some of it apparently wasn't. The fellow who
stole the formula and got it wrong was Chinese, but he sold it to plenty of
people from different places.
Some of the affected caps were Chinese, some were Taiwanese. I'll keep
buying from Panasonic, Rubycon, and Illinois Capacitor myself...
Gene S. Berkowitz
rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com says...
Start here:
http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm
Article states:
"the problem developed after a materials scientist working for Rubycon
Corporation in Japan left the company and began working for Luminous
Town Electric in _China_. The scientist then developed a copy of Rubycon
P-50 type water-based electrolyte, used in low-ESR aluminum electrolytic
capacitors developed by Luminous and equivalent to the Rubycon ZA and ZL
series. Subsequently, the scientist's staff members defected with the
formula, and began to sell and electrolyte at a low price to many of the
major aluminum electrolytic houses in Taiwan".
It's not perfectly clear whether _China_ as stated in the article refers
to PRC or Taiwan ROC, although all other references to manufacturers use
"Taiwan".
Luminous Town Electric (http://www.ltec.com.tw/news_e.htm)
has its office in Taiwan, but lists its factory as:
CHINA FACTORY:
Oil Tank, Moon City Industrial District, Wang Niou Duen Town, Tung Kuan
County Guangtung Province, MAINLAND CHINA
--Gene
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> On Jun 27, 10:11 am, Brontide <eri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh... lookie... Chinese government has been working since December to
> > correct these "issues" ( why do we only hear about this crackdown
> > now? ).
>
> > "BEIJING: China has closed 180 food factories after inspectors found
> > industrial chemicals being used in products from candy to seafood,
> > state media said Wednesday.
>
> > The closures came amid a nationwide crackdown on shoddy and dangerous
> > products launched in December that also uncovered use of recycled or
> > expired food, the China Daily said.
>
> can't imagine anyone willingly eating that product.
>
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> What the hell is recycled food? I know what it sounds like, but I
> can't imagine anyone willingly eating that product.
>
That is one I can answer since I work in a deli department and it took
me a couple years of fighting with my chinese deli manager to get
things fixed. My store manager didn't believe that these things were
going on.
For example, we use lettuce as a garnish for the sliced meat on
display. At the end of the night, the chinese clerks would take that
lettuce and move it to the sandwich bar to use in sandwiches the next
day. Nobody would choose to have a sandwich made with lettuce that has
been sitting on display, already exposed to the light and kinda wilty.
And I'm sure people who do not eat pork would not be pleased to find
that their lettuce was touching ham all day.
For awhile, you could buy a sandwich that had bread that was out of
the freezer for 2 weeks already, meat that was sliced 3 days prior,
cheese that was sliced 2 weeks prior, and lettuce that was used as a
garnish already. Not exactly fresh or as advertised. It took months of
documenting this with notes and photos before upper management would
believe that this was going on.
Products that were past pull were often used anyway. Past pull meats
were used on sandwiches. Past pull salads were put into the salad case
for quick sale. Sometimes, not even the same salad. For example,
mustard potato salad is not available in the salad case, only the
prepackaged containers, . So they would take the past pull salad and
stir it into a different kind of potato salad and mark it as the other
kind.
Sandwiches that didn't sell were often reopened. They would transfer
the meat and cheese to newer bread so it looked good. Past pull veggie
trays were opened and rewrapped as new trays and given another 7 day
pull date.
Another thing they like to do is re-use containers. For example, we
sell whole roasted chickens. For chickens that do not sell, we chill
them and use the chicken for salad. That is fine. But they take the
containers and re-use them for new chickens. We have no way to
sterilize the containers, and they sit for hours before being used
again, just sitting out to dry. It is not sanitary at all, but it
saves money, and that is what is about. Sometimes, I feel like I am
the only person in my department with any ethics.
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> The real China Syndrome is this.
> Many people think they know China well after a few news reports or
> after they
> heard something from a few friends about China.
>
I currently work with 12 Chinese people, one of them being my direct
boss. Many other Chinese people as well over the past 16 years. Ever
since the new deli manager arrived (6 years ago), I have watched a lot
of unethical behavior, all done to save time and money. And they talk
about China and how things are done there. Everything is about
money.
One of our newer clerks is having a really hard time because he cann
comprehend customer service and being nice to people. He gets angry
anytime a customer asks to have somethig sliced or made. Or even just
ordering something normal during the last 2 hours of our shift. He
will tell the customer we are closed (we aren't), or that we are out
(even if a chunk of the meat is in full view), or that we can't do it.
If the customer complains, he says the customer was rude to him. He
cannot comprehend customer service, and assumes that peope are mad at
him because he is asian (even though the customer is not nad at all
the other asians working here). When I tried to talk to him about it,
he went on and an about how he is from Hong Kong, and and that is now
how they do things there. Too bad, we are here in Washington state,
and our store advertises great customer service. We have to do it. He
is not adapting well at all.
Brontide
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/06/29/us_cracks_down_on_fish_from_china/
"US cracks down on fish from China
By Diedtra Henderson, Globe Staff | June 29, 2007
WASHINGTON -- Federal authorities, under fire for responding slowly to
tainted Chinese imports, yesterday said they will halt shipments of
five fish species sent from China because they are laced with
dangerous chemicals."
So... where does the corruption and greed for Chinese exporters end?
American companies face mountains of regulatory burdens but imported
foods face little more than a quick check. Now that we are finally
starting to wake up and do the checks we need, how many more illegal
activities will we find?
-Eric
Brent P
> So... where does the corruption and greed for Chinese exporters end?
> American companies face mountains of regulatory burdens but imported
> foods face little more than a quick check. Now that we are finally
> starting to wake up and do the checks we need, how many more illegal
> activities will we find?
China is the model for the world. It won't be stopped. Just like China,
with all it's wealth will not be required to clean up its act.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=267923672133594
We'll have tax after tax and cost after cost and restriction after
restriction placed on us for the environment while china spews more and
more filth without even using already available and proven pollution
controls.
H...@nospam.nix
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:f60pbj$npm$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> <H...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> >"John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
> >news:1182962535.8...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> Yes, but those ultra cheap generic drugs from WalMart are not checked
> >> for quality either.
> >
> >Do they check the high end pharmaceuticals for quality? I doubt it.
>
> I have this impression of a bunch of guys sitting around in the back room
> gobbling pills and saying, "Here, try this, it's very mellow...."
And that is probably the FDA, Scott...;>)
Chairman Mao says:
Does he make excuses to short-change your paycheck and not pay his employees
on time?
Does accept and give lots of "red envelopes" to/from various shady
characters.
Does he have at least 1 mistress?
If so, he is a true Chinese boss.
<frie...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message
news:1183104653....@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Chairman Mao says:
accord, we would have had to pay a tax for China's pollution and would have
had to pay to clean it up too.
"Brent P" <tetraethylle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SL6dnVVA0uo5vBjb...@comcast.com...
PaPaPeng
>One of our newer clerks is having a really hard time because he cann
>comprehend customer service and being nice to people. He gets angry
>anytime a customer asks to have somethig sliced or made. Or even just
>ordering something normal during the last 2 hours of our shift. He
>will tell the customer we are closed (we aren't), or that we are out
>(even if a chunk of the meat is in full view), or that we can't do it.
My son had a work assignment in Milpitas CA a couple years ago and it
was a good opportunity for me to join him for my holiday. It was
heaven that just across the road from the hotel and workplace is
wellknown Chinatown. It is a large modern strip mall of mostly
Chinese businesses that attracts Chinese from an hour's drive away
from Milpitas to shop there. Plus lots of Anglos shop there too. My
delight is because I can't handle more than three non-Chinese type
meals in a row and this mall had excellent Chinese restaurants galore.
One morning son and I went to the mom and pop grocery store that had a
cafeteria in a corner of the store. Goody. It had soup noodles (my
fav), dim sum (can't eat that), BBQ meats and some other tid bits. So
I stepped right up to order my noodles. That rather gruff cook not
only refused my order, he was also quite curt, flicked me away with
finger gestures and continued chopping up minced pork (to make
wontons). Mumble grumble mumble grumble. Before I could figure out
what was happening my son laughed and said that his noodles counter
doesn't open until 8 am and I had to pay the mama san first, get a
ticket and then hand that to the cook who will make up the order.
Great. Now an ethnic mom and pop operation that is a union shop.
Anyway I finally got things sorted out. Had my order and sat at a
table to enjoy it. The cook was still mumbling grumbling. Son and I
commented. Maybe he got up on the wrong side of the bed? Nope not a
Chinese thing to do. Wife trouble? Don't know. He sounds like he's
saying "What am I doing here?" Son and I instantly came up with the
line he would have probably said. "Mumble grumble. I was the Chief
Heart Surgeon back in China. What am I doing here chopping up dead
meat for wonton? Mumble grumble" We both cracked up and coudln't
eat for more than a minute.
Anyway the point I want to make is that it is quite common for Chinese
immigrants to be highly qualified and very skilled. But because of
language problems or whatever obstacles there are that prevent them
from converting those qualifications and skill into recognized
American-Canadian, they have to take jobs way below their abilities.
This is not to excuse rudness. This is a plea that when interacting
with the Chinese immigrants do not treat them as if they are ignorant
peasants.
Chairman Mao says:
July 1, 2007
The most corrupt man in China
When super-rich tycoon Lai Changxing went down he took 10,000 officials with
him. This is his extraordinary story
Oliver August
For every glass tower newly built in the boom towns of southern China, there
is a construction project that's failed or run out of money. When it rains,
water pours into thousands of craters lining the roads like fresh graves,
none bigger than the one dug by Lai Chang-xing in the city of Xiamen.
Lai's tower would have had 88 floors, higher than any in China, and all that's
left now is a waterlogged pit, albeit one fit for a sports arena. Neighbours
still remember the lavish ground-breaking ceremony Lai held here. Two
thousand guests were handed red envelopes filled with $375 (£187) each as
they walked in - a welcome gift - and then served abalone, a rare shellfish
that sells for up to $800 a portion.
An illiterate peasant who became one of China's richest men during the
1990s, Lai was also one of its most corrupt, reaching the top of Beijing's
most wanted list. For years, he entertained government ministers at a
seven-storey villa called the Red Mansion, housing 100 modern-day
concubines. For larger parties, he built a replica of the Forbidden City,
the citadel of China's emperors.
Lai was China's biggest private trader of cars and cigarettes, and the
importer of a sixth of its oil. He thought he knew how to enjoy wealth
without turning it into a curse, and how to game the officials who still
ruled the economy. The key was bribery, he believed, and the key to bribery
was sex.
With the help of friendly officials, Lai cheated Beijing out of $3.6 billion
in taxes, and then fled the country as he became the focus of the largest
criminal investigation in Chinese history. Ten thousand of his associates
were detained and 1,000 imprisoned. Fourteen were sentenced to death, among
them the minister for borders and the head of military intelligence. Lai's
older brother and his accountant died in prison. Only Lai got away.
As a founding member of China's newly minted class of oligarchs, Lai's
wealth gave him unheard-of powers in this nominally still Communist country
(where more than a third of all Bentleys are now sold, and half the world's
cement is consumed). Lai succeeded where others failed because he understood
the fundamentally haphazard nature of a land perched between total command
and a free-for-all market.
Short and tubby, Lai was born in 1958, one of eight peasant siblings who
knew starvation at a young age and received almost no formal education. At
20, when the government moved towards economic liberalisa-tion, he started
making car parts. The business took off. Soon officials began asking for
bribes. When Lai refused, a sister was beaten hard enough to send her to the
hospital, and he was tied up in legal disputes.
From then on, Lai never refused another official. Instead, he made sure he
exceeded their expectations. He took them to a private nightclub where
sequined mermaids waltzed across a spotlit stage, followed by rouged Red
Guards goose-stepping to The Sound of Music.
Later, he built his own bordello. He sent recruiters across the country to
hire so-called "Miss Temporaries". They had to be at least 5ft 6in tall and
have a high school diploma. He paid them a base salary of $1,000 a month, a
vast sum for most Chinese, and offered them to government officials as
mistresses.
Lai named the seven-storey building where they resided after Dream of a Red
Mansion, a Qing dynasty tale about a wealthy family and its courtesans.
Along the corridors on the lower floors were massage rooms and movie
theatres.
One guest was Li Jizhou, the minister for borders. At the mansion, he was
introduced to a public relations manager from a trading firm. After Li
expressed an interest in her, Lai hired her as a full-time mistress. "If you
can make the minister happy you can have anything you want," Lai told her.
And she did.
The more wealth he accumulated, the more he grew in confidence. After the
Red Mansion, he spent $20m building a replica of the Forbidden City among
green hills half an hour's drive from the southern Chinese coast. Visitors
to this palace of supreme power were greeted by a red banner on a Gate of
Heavenly Peace, quoting Mao: "Strengthening socialist spiritual civilisation
is the great strategic goal". Next to it was a portrait of the chairman, the
same that has for decades hung on the original Gate of Heavenly Peace in
Beijing.
Lai was ridiculing the Communist party with this mock tribute. At the centre
of the palace was a lacquered pavilion with a gold-bedecked throne, next to
a beer-company umbrella. It was here that Lai sat during the opening, when
he crowned himself a tu huangdi, or dirt emperor, who lived in his own Ming
dynasty fiefdom.
Lai had billions of dollars and didn't know what to do with them. He spent
$2m on a first-rate soccer club near Canton, disbanded it and transferred
all the players to his home town. He built his parents a villa with a marble
arch, and put a 30ft glass roof in the shape of a pyramid on top of the
house of his eldest brother.
He gave taxi drivers $100 notes for $6 or $7 rides, and at a nearby Holiday
Inn hotel he always signed a blank credit card receipt at the start of a
meal and asked not to be shown the bill. He could not have read it in any
case. He was barely able to decipher his own business card. To avoid
embarrassment, he refused to engage in correspondence of any kind.
The result was a business empire with no organisation charts, no hierarchy
other than the link every one of his employees had with him. Business plans
were unheard of, memos unknown. Nonetheless, when the end came, and Lai had
to run for his life, it was not this lack of orthodoxy that felled him. It
was the greed of an official, and Lai's uncharacteristic refusal to bribe
him, that sealed his fate.
Zhu Niuniu was the son of a high-ranking general who regularly aided Lai's
import business, shepherding goods through customs. Zhu had a gambling
problem and ended up borrowing $10m from Lai and his associates. When Zhu's
other creditors demanded their money back, he asked Lai for help. But Lai
turned him down. He had been unhappy with Zhu's frequent gambling, he told
him. Fearful of the other creditors, Zhu decided on a simple solution. He
would turn everyone in.
Within weeks, some 600 special investigators descended on the Red Mansion.
They set out to unravel Lai's network, telling officials they would be
pardoned if they cooperated. Lai's contacts in the government warned him
about the special investigators: unseen he transferred large sums of money
abroad. Then he drove to the southern coast, hired a speedboat and, avoiding
all border controls, entered Hong Kong where his wife and children were
waiting. A few days later, they flew to Canada.
For more than a year, Beijing searched desperately for Lai. Checkpoints were
set up from Hong Kong to Shanghai. Raids were conducted and phones tapped,
but Lai could not be found. The prime minister fumed: "He should be killed
three times over, and even that wouldn't be enough."
Yet parts of the Chinese public came to idolise Lai as a latterday Robin
Hood. They approvingly called him a tufei, a classical term for a bandit,
meaning to elevate him above mere robbers and cheats. They said he was
defying the authorities for just reasons. He was like the mythical bandit,
Sung Chiang, who "helped the needy and looked lightly upon silver".
Lai bought a home for $1m in cash in Vancouver's exclusive South Granville
district. His children went to private school and his wife opened a bank
account with an initial deposit of $1.5m. Lai moved around in a
chauffeur-driven $90,000 sports-utility vehicle. But he was bored. After a
few months, he started visiting Canada's casino capital Niagara Falls, and
that's where his luck finally ran out. On the 28th day of a gambling spree,
he was charged by Canadian police with money-laundering. They had watched
him stake millions of dollars worth of chips, and when he seemed not to mind
losing, they had become suspicious.
From a detention cell, the first he ever visited, Lai applied for political
asylum. He said he had powerful enemies in China who wanted to kill him,
which was undoubtedly true. But Canadian government lawyers argued that he
was "the head of the largest smuggling enterprise in Chinese history" and
that his were "nonpolitical crimes".
On May 15, 2006, Lai lost an appeal and a deportation order was issued. In
desperation, he crashed his forehead into metal bars in a prison van, hoping
to injure himself and delay his return to China. Meanwhile, his lawyer
challenged the deportation order in federal court in Ottawa. Two weeks
later, less than 24 hours before Lai was to be put on a plane, the court
ruled that Lai faced "cruel and unusual punishment" in China and hence
should be allowed to stay. The deportation order was lifted, pending further
legal challenges, and Lai was freed. Then on April 6, 2007, a federal judge
ruled that it was "patently unreasonable" to accept China's assurances not
to harm Lai.
When I met him in his Vancouver penthouse, he seemed a changed man. One hand
worked the belt buckle on a pair of black chinos and the other tucked in a
black turtle-neck. His eyes were bloodshot and small.
"Please," he said, gesturing towards the panoramic views of the sea and the
mountains, "welcome". His round-the-clock security guards alone cost $20,000
a week. But, still, this was a far cry from the baronial follies he owned in
China. Looking out over the sparse Pacific Northwest, the 49-year-old told
me he longed to be back home.
Below us, suburban Vancouver lumbered past. It was difficult to imagine Lai
ever becoming part of this landscape. Still he tried. "Do you smoke?" he
said, reaching into his pocket. He pulled out a red pack, a Chinese brand.
"Yuanhua," he said. "My company made these. I designed the logo myself. We
sold millions."
He turned the pack over in his hand a few times, then extended his arm. "I
have only three left now. Take one."
© Oliver August 2007
Inside the Red Mansion: On the Trail of China's Most Wanted Man by Oliver
August will be published by John Murray on July 12, £20. Copies can be
ordered for £18 with free delivery/plus p&p from The Sunday Times BooksFirst
on 0870 165 8585
"Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-z...@prc.com> wrote in message
news:46871a56$0$490$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Eeyore
Chairman Mao says: wrote:
> and then served abalone, a rare shellfish that sells for up to $800 a portion.
Eh ?
Abalone is commonplace in the region. Sea food is widely eaten in such coastal
areas of China. If your story made a mistake that big, it's worth nothing.
Graham
Eeyore
Chairman Mao says: wrote:
> Š Oliver August 2007
Interesting time warp !
Graham
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> Does he drive a Mercedes Benz, Black Audi or White BMW too?
>
> Does he make excuses to short-change your paycheck and not pay his employees
> on time?
>
> Does accept and give lots of "red envelopes" to/from various shady
> characters.
>
> Does he have at least 1 mistress?
>
> If so, he is a true Chinese boss.
>
SHE is my direct boss, not the top boss. She has no say in paychecks.
She runs the department. Not the store. Not the company. She makes
only a little more than I do. Definitely not rich. But she gets away
with a lot because pretends to not know what is going on even though
she is the one telling the clerks what to do. And when asked if I
heard her tell them what to do, I can't confirm that I did, since she
speaks Chinese to the other clerks, and I don't know Chinese. She can
tell them anything she wants to have them break the rules, and then
claim she didn't realize they were breaking the rules.
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:10:53 -0700, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com"
Very true. Our previous head cook was a mechanic in China.
This particular guy though is 25 years old, went to high school here
in the states and is currently in college. His older brother works
here too, and the brother is really nice. This guy is just very fast
get angry and seems excited to become a citizen very soon, yet he
wants to play by China's rules. When asked if he spoke English
(because he couldn't understand the customer's request), he went off
on the guy, called him a racist, and then went onabout how the guy
can't speak Chinese. Um, it's an American store in America. Customers
aren't expected to know Chinese.
I currently work with 12 Chinese people, and he is the hardest for me
to understand. I am used to the accent, but he speaks very fast. He is
the only Chinese clerk I have worked with who went to high school
here. So, he is the most fluent, but he speaks with a strong accent,
speaks very fast, and he also has trouble listening to people with
different accents. Add to that impatience, and he is a disaster in
communicating with customers, especially other people whose first
language is not english or chinese.
The other clerks were all very limited with language skills when they
started, which is why they got a job here. It is an American grocery
store, but we serve Chinese food. So, we always have at least a few
Chinese people. And that means a mainstream job with a couple people
who can translate and help them adjust. It is a good way to help them
integrate. Over time, they have become fluent and understand and speak
much better. They have learned to enunciate well, and they are also
very patient. When they still cannot understand a customer request,
they ask for help. Sometims, it is a word they don't know, or just an
accent they are familiar with. But they handle it calmly, and the
customers don't get upset either. Unless they get this guy. He gets
offended and starts arguing with them.
ltl...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Good point.
It is clear that the story is not written with care.
>
> Graham
Chairman Mao says:
and the Chinese are always correct.
It's our fault our pets died and the tires fall apart ect.
Why are both of you living in Western Countries and not back in China?
One near Raleigh North Carolina and the other Luton, UK?
Why don't you live in China where USENET is often blocked for a "harmonious
Society."
I still cannot figure those 2 important points out...
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46874A13...@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Chairman Mao says: wrote:
>
>> © Oliver August 2007
Chairman Mao says:
You will need to do what I did, I learned Chinese so they cannot try to fool
or cheat me anymore.
You will be amazed at some of the things they say.
<frie...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message
news:1183274956.8...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Matonak
> I'm still trying to figure something out, if the western world is all liars
> and the Chinese are always correct.
There are no absolutes.
Anthony
Matthew T. Russotto
You're supposed to stop at that point and say "Ahh, baloney".
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
frie...@zoocrewphoto.com
> A good reason to have "English used only" in the work place bill.
>
> You will need to do what I did, I learned Chinese so they cannot try to fool
> or cheat me anymore.
>
> You will be amazed at some of the things they say.
>
>
> news:1183274956.8...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 30, 8:07 pm, "Chairman Mao says:" <Mao-ze-D...@prc.com> wrote:
> >> Does he drive a Mercedes Benz, Black Audi or White BMW too?
>
> >> Does he make excuses to short-change your paycheck and not pay his
> >> employees
> >> on time?
>
> >> Does accept and give lots of "red envelopes" to/from various shady
> >> characters.
>
> >> Does he have at least 1 mistress?
>
> >> If so, he is a true Chinese boss.
>
> > SHE is my direct boss, not the top boss. She has no say in paychecks.
> > She runs the department. Not the store. Not the company. She makes
> > only a little more than I do. Definitely not rich. But she gets away
> > with a lot because pretends to not know what is going on even though
> > she is the one telling the clerks what to do. And when asked if I
> > heard her tell them what to do, I can't confirm that I did, since she
> > speaks Chinese to the other clerks, and I don't know Chinese. She can
> > tell them anything she wants to have them break the rules, and then
> > claim she didn't realize they were breaking the rules.
A few us complained when it first started getting bad. But the overall
boss is convinced that they barely speak Chinese around us, so nothing
was done. Now, we have 3 people from Bangladesh and India. It was
hilaroious when the Chinese clerks compained about them not speaking
English. Same thing they have been doing, but now they are receiving
it. Personally, I am quite used to being talked around and through.
I can understand a few words, but they talk so fast, I would never be
able to pick it up.
Fred G. Mackey
>
> Roger Blake wrote:
>
>
>>ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
>>>reality?
>>
>>There is no such word as "imaginstions."
>>
>>However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
>>the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
>>to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
>>ethics in their culture.
>
>
> Nonsense. You simply have to deal with competent suppliers.
>
> The very best QC I've ever seen was in a Chinese factory. It was *excellent* in every way.
>
That wasn't Quality Control, that work Labor Control.
Isn't it wonderful how they treat their workers too?
A few lucky ones get as much as $6 a month and only work 80 hour weeks.
They've come a long way!
> All Chinese companies *are not* the same.
>
Yeah - there are bad ones and then there are really fucking horrible ones.
> Graham
>
Eeyore
"Fred G. Mackey" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Roger Blake wrote:
> >>ltl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>Are you talking about your imaginstions or are you tallkiing about
> >>>reality?
> >>
> >>There is no such word as "imaginstions."
> >>
> >>However, I am talking about the reality of doing business with
> >>the Red Chinese, who (as reported by Western engineers who have
> >>to deal with them) have no concept of quality control or business
> >>ethics in their culture.
> >
> >
> > Nonsense. You simply have to deal with competent suppliers.
> >
> > The very best QC I've ever seen was in a Chinese factory. It was *excellent* in every way.
>
> That wasn't Quality Control, that work Labor Control.
How the fuck would you know ?
> Isn't it wonderful how they treat their workers too?
>
> A few lucky ones get as much as $6 a month and only work 80 hour weeks.
> They've come a long way!
More total bollocks.
> > All Chinese companies *are not* the same.
>
> Yeah - there are bad ones and then there are really fucking horrible ones.
You're full of shit.
Graham
Chairman Mao says:
Wo Bu Tong ???
= I don't understand.
Wo-ah boo tong
<frie...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message
news:1183366506.7...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
hls
Zheng being executed is a strong statement for quality control.
Maybe that alternative should be written into ISO norms.
Spob
> Even after Ralph Nader educated the American public, it still took law
> makers to make cars safer.
The only thing Ralph Nader did was demonstrate how gullible the
American public is by using pseudo-science to manufacture a
falsehood.
While there's plenty of real fraud and deception perpetrated by
corporate America, the Corvair was a perfectly well built car. With
most cars, accidents are mostly caused by a failure of the nut that
holds the wheel.
rick++
He took bribes to license 137 medicines without adequate testing.
Rod Speed
The whole point of modern car design is to make it
harder for the stupids to kill themselves and others.
Doc
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/business/worldbusiness/27tires.html?hp
>
> "According to the lawsuit, Zhongce officials admitted in September
> 2006 that the gum strip, a safety features that helps bind the tire
> treads more securely, had been removed or not included on some tires.
Fake medications that kill people, bootleg everything you can think of
are booming industries in China. People are subject to imprisonment
for publicly speaking about the wrong topics. Caring what effect
shittily made product is going to have is likely a new concept to
them.
Then again, a number of American companies aren't much better. Wasn't
Firestone making tires everyone knew were dangerous for decades?
*
hls <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in article
<DYLki.9558$Rw1....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>...
>
> Zheng being executed is a strong statement for quality control.
>
> Maybe that alternative should be written into ISO norms.
>
ISO certification only means that you are consistent about producing the
same product.
If it is a POS, you are certified to produce that POS to the same, exacting
standards - day in and day out.