Terminix system vs Sentricon termite baiting system
Walter Cohen
baiting system (and ultimately elimination of the colony).
The Sentricon system, licensed by various pest control companies also uses
these round baiting stations placed every 10 feet or so around the outside
of the house foundation. Sentricon is made/licensed by Dow AgroSciences so
I assume the bait/poison is made/trademarked by Dow. Each 'station' is
monitored electronically monthly (or quarterly?) The system is warranted to
'eliminate' the colony, not just kill the few termites that come into
contact with the bait and reduce the colony. The system is installed and
monitored for 2 years.
Terminix has what seems to be their own system which looks amazingly like
the Sentricon baiting system. They use similar (to the Sentricon system)
round soil baiting stations placed every 10 feet or so around the outside
house perimeter. The price is similar to the Sentricon system and is
monitored for 2 years.
Not sure about the bait/poison in the Terminix system. It must do something
very similar to the Sentricon bait/poison.
Any ideas on what/how the Terminix system works and if it is as good as the
Sentricon system?
Thanks.
Walter
dpb
...
> Any ideas on what/how the Terminix system works and if it is as good as
> the Sentricon system?
I don't know for sure, but I've always figured that Terminix was just
reselling the Dow system.
If they don't supply any information at all on the pesticide, I'd do a
search for MSDS information on the system--I'd think they would have had
to file. Many times that will give you the glimpse at the wizard behind
the screen you're not supposed to see... :)
--
gpsman
Crossposted to alt.consumers.pest-control.
I didn't have enough experience with baiting to make any sort of
judgment.
I sold Sentricon, but the concept of luring termites from one food
source to another as an effective means of control never made sense to
me.
-----
- gpsman
Rod Speed
> Walter Cohen <w_co...@hotmail.com> wrote
Thats not what its about. The bait stations are a way of getting the termites to take
back what is poisonous to the colony, back into the colony where it kills the entire colony.
ransley
Spectracide baits systems are at HD here, DIY cheaper.
HeyBub
> I'm trying to determine which company has the better, more effective
> termite baiting system (and ultimately elimination of the colony).
Consider Termidor.
You dig a trench around your house, some inches deep. You put in the
Termidor.
It kills the colony in three months or less. 100%. No execptions have been
found. Lasts for many years.
You can get the stuff on Ebay (be prepared for sticker-shock - about
$150/gallon).
gpsman
With proper direction, resources, dedication... diligence... one day
you may eventually arrive at the conclusion that they have to be lured
(well, I suppose it could be marketed as "pure chance while foraging")
from one food source to the poisoned food source in order for that to
occur.
-----
- gpsman
Rod Speed
It isnt hard for any operation with a clue to use food thats particularly attractive to termites.
cshenk
> I'm trying to determine which company has the better, more effective
> termite baiting system (and ultimately elimination of the colony).
Check the longevity of the chemical closely. This is the key.
I use Orkin here. The terminex stuff lasts at best a year and the franchise
in my local area is not reliable. (This is not a total slam on terminex as
i gather in some areas they are quite good and even in our area they are
better than Orkin with some types of pests, just not termites).
I have had several 'treatments' done in the past 10 years. One was by
terminex only 4 years ago and came back to the USA to find live termites
eating out a baseboard. I got the orkin contract and am covered for all
damage now after an extensive inspection to determine how much damage we
already had (thank the lord, just the basebord!). Yes, it costs money but
we are paying off treatment for an active infestation. Once that drops off,
we need only pay about 200$ a year for what is basically insurance coverage
for any damages and quarterly inspections. When the chemicals start to
fail, they reseed for free.
dpb
> Walter Cohen wrote:
> ...
>
>> Any ideas on what/how the Terminix system works and if it is as good
>> as the Sentricon system?
>
> I don't know for sure, but I've always figured that Terminix was just
> reselling the Dow system.
Turns out they're not, apparently ... A (very quick) google turned up
this fwiw...I presume it's reasonably accurate, but I'd surely want to
do some more followup.
It does seem to indicate Terminix isn't using Dow Sentricon, though...
http://www.sentinelpestcontrol.com/termitecontrol/sentriconvsterminix.php
--
Chloe
news:gI4Oj.51611$QC.1...@newsfe20.lga...
Terminix nationally doesn't exactly have a great track record in terms of
running an honest business. Plenty of people have had their houses munched
by termites when the mixture of powdered milk and water Terminix used to
spray around their houses didn't turn out to be all that effective <g>.
Check with your state's attorney general office or department of agriculture
before you do business with them.
Walter Cohen
W
"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message news:fuanpt$gbb$1...@aioe.org...
DGDevin
> Terminix nationally doesn't exactly have a great track record in
> terms of running an honest business. Plenty of people have had their
> houses munched by termites when the mixture of powdered milk and
> water Terminix used to spray around their houses didn't turn out to
> be all that effective <g>. Check with your state's attorney general
> office or department of agriculture before you do business with them.
Our favorite contractor has a generally dim view of the termite industry,
he's seen too many shady local franchisees who are better at high-pressure
sales than they are at killing bugs. This is one of those areas where lots
and lots of research is called for before signing on the dotted line.
gpsman
> "cshenk" <cshe...@cox.net> wrote in message
Or just Google.
Terminix and Orkin produce the majority of pest control customers
pissed off enough to actually file suit.
Among many "real" professional Pest Control Operators they're both
considered a blight on the industry (which is not to say that neither
has a small percentage of true "professionals").
It's a tough business in which to compete when the homeowner has
difficulty determining who is a shyster and who is not.
-----
- gpsman
dpb
...
> Terminix and Orkin produce the majority of pest control customers
> pissed off enough to actually file suit.
That's easily explained simply by the fact the two are by far the
largest companies in the field: simply more opportunities.
As a secondary cause, most local companies won't make anything more than
local news even if they are no better in service or follow up or
warranty work than the national firms in their area so google results
will be grossly distorted by that as well.
--
gpsman
> gpsman wrote:
>
> ...> Terminix and Orkin produce the majority of pest control customers
> > pissed off enough to actually file suit.
>
> largest companies in the field: simply more opportunities.
Of course, but that explanation is a little too simple.
> As a secondary cause, most local companies won't make anything more than
> local news even if they are no better in service or follow up or
> warranty work than the national firms in their area so google results
> will be grossly distorted by that as well.
Or, they settle up and/or satisfy their clients.
A large national with oodles of advertising budget can write off
clients assuming they will simply usually swap dissatisfied clients
with the "other" national company.
(This is a common technique known and employed employed by fast food
restaurants. Sure their dining room is filthy, and their service is
slow, but they all (generally) are. If you don't come back to BK,
someone will abandon Wendy's on the same premise.)
IME with termites, many homeowners tried both national companies
before I got the call. Most, as in way more than half, had no
evidence of termites.
Evaluated individually as wholes, both companies consist of a great
many shysters.
-----
- gpsman
dpb
> On Apr 19, 1:32 pm, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
>> gpsman wrote:
>>
>> ...> Terminix and Orkin produce the majority of pest control customers
>>> pissed off enough to actually file suit.
>> That's easily explained simply by the fact the two are by far the
>> largest companies in the field: simply more opportunities.
>
> Of course, but that explanation is a little too simple.
No simpler than your previous statement (as presented)...
>> As a secondary cause, most local companies won't make anything more than
>> local news even if they are no better in service or follow up or
>> warranty work than the national firms in their area so google results
>> will be grossly distorted by that as well.
>
> Or, they settle up and/or satisfy their clients.
But they simply won't show up on google in any profusion because there
are a comparatively miniscule number of searchers for any local company
regardless of how bad they might be.
Hence, it is an erroneous conclusion that because the two major
companies have the bulk of the complaints on a google search the others
are _necessarily_ better.
It's simply a misuse of the statistics.
--
gpsman
Agreed, but I would point to their use of "contracts" as evidence they
are less inclined to satisfy their clients, and their unnecessary
service intervals as evidence they are better at generating income
than performing effective services.
But, they made me a ton o' money...
-----
- gpsman
dpb
>> Hence, it is an erroneous conclusion that because the two major
>> companies have the bulk of the complaints on a google search the others
>> are _necessarily_ better.
>>
>> It's simply a misuse of the statistics.
>
That's the only point I was making...
Nothing else is derivable from the data posited.
I'm not attacking you or any other local exterminator nor defending the
Big Two; simply pointing out to draw a conclusion you wished others to
make from your previous post is simply not warranted.
--
tcam...@campbelllitigation.com
None of these systems do anything to "bait" a termite like a worm
baits a fish. Termites forage randomly for food and have hit one of
these stations by freak accident. I'd advise you to look at testing
data that was not paid for directly or indirectly by the folks who
make it or sell it.
You may want to look into a full and complete (not perimeter only)
termiticide treatment with Termidor.
Tom Campbell
www.campbelllitigation.com
Chloe
news:98WdnYeoDOnpgJfV...@earthlink.com...
My experience, and I have plenty, is that the independently owned local
companies (not franchisees) are the best bet. But you're right, research is
important.
dpb
...
> ... None of these systems do anything to "bait" a termite like a worm
> baits a fish. ... I'd advise you to look at testing data that was
> not paid for directly or indirectly by the folks who make it or sell
> it.
OK, let's see what a few minutes can find out...
On the first claim I find w/o much trouble the following peer-reviewed
publication abstract...
Cornelius, M.L. "effect of bait supplements on the feeding and tunneling
behavior of the formosan subterranean termite (isoptera:
rhinotermitidae).". International Conference on Urban Pests pp. 159-163.
In C-Y Lee and W.H.Robinson (eds), Proceedings of the 5th International
Conference on Urban Pests, Singapore.
Interpretive Summary: ... An experiment conducted to examine the effect
of water soluble chemicals extracted from SummonTM disks on tunneling
behavior. Due to the influence of water soluble components of Summon,
the average number of days taken for termites to discover pipette tips
filled with material from ground-up SummonTM disks was significantly
less than the average number of days taken for termites to discover
pipette tips filled with red oak sawdust. ...
So, at least one system has a bait that is more effective than simply
random foraging or even a supply of a normally pretty delectable wood
source.
On testing, USDA reports in New Orleans the following
Riverfront Railroad, Levee, and French Market Corporation: A project was
initiated in January 2002 with NOM&TCB and Dow AgroSciences LLC to
access and then reduce the termite pressure along the railroad tracks
and the adjacent levee planters along the French Quarter between the
Mississippi River and the flood walls. ... 480 Sentricon® Stations
(®Registered trademark of Dow AgroSciences LLC, Indianapolis, IN) were
installed along the mile of track and on the levee around the wooden
planters. ... This project is making a significant contribution to the
ongoing efforts of termite management in the French Quarter. In 2004,
there was a decrease in the total number of FST alates (winged termites)
recovered from 42 glue traps in the Riverfront and French Market areas
of the French Quarter. In 2003, 18,747 FST alates were recovered, and in
2004, 12,593 FST alates were recovered.
So, I must conclude there's direct evidence that there are baiting
systems that are demonstrable to be more effective than no baiting and
that there is a demonstrated reduction in termite populations after the
deployment of the Dow Sentricon station.
Perhaps your url is indicative of a reason you'd like to claim otherwise...
--
Rod Speed
Trouble is that real research isnt really feasible in this area, because
its so hard to quantify which operations do an effective job.
dpb
...
> Trouble is that real research isnt really feasible in this area, because
> its so hard to quantify which operations do an effective job.
I don't think that's really so at all. There is quite a lot of valid
research.
The problem is that there are folks who are more interested in making
profits than otherwise; that doesn't mean there isn't actual research
and scientific basis for some of the products, only that marketing may
outstrip the results the science claims.
IMO, if they would simply bring back Chlordane and a few of the other
banned products as restricted use the problems would be far fewer.
--
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote>>>> Chloe wrote
>>>>> Terminix nationally doesn't exactly have a great track record in
>>>>> terms of running an honest business. Plenty of people have had their
>>>>> houses munched by termites when the mixture of powdered milk and
>>>>> water Terminix used to spray around their houses didn't turn out to
>>>>> be all that effective <g>. Check with your state's attorney general
>>>>> office or department of agriculture before you do business with them.
>>>> Our favorite contractor has a generally dim view of the termite
>>>> industry, he's seen too many shady local franchisees who are better
>>>> at high-pressure sales than they are at killing bugs. This is one
>>>> of those areas where lots and lots of research is called for before
>>>> signing on the dotted line.
>>> My experience, and I have plenty, is that the independently owned
>>> local companies (not franchisees) are the best bet. But you're right,
>>> research is important.
>> Trouble is that real research isnt really feasible in this area,
>> because its so hard to quantify which operations do an effective job.
> I don't think that's really so at all. There is quite a lot of valid research.
Not on how INDEPENDANTLY OWNED LOCAL COMPANYS perform there isnt.
> The problem is that there are folks who are more interested in making profits than otherwise; that doesn't mean there
> isn't actual research and scientific basis for some of the products, only that marketing may outstrip the results the
> science claims.
That wasnt what I commented on.
> IMO, if they would simply bring back Chlordane and a few of the other
> banned products as restricted use the problems would be far fewer.
Sure, but that wasnt what I commented on either.
dpb
> dpb <no...@non.net> wrote
...
>>> Trouble is that real research isnt really feasible in this area,
>>> because its so hard to quantify which operations do an effective job.
>
>> I don't think that's really so at all. There is quite a lot of valid research.
>
> Not on how INDEPENDANTLY OWNED LOCAL COMPANYS perform there isnt.
Well, when you say "which operations do and effective job", that doesn't
seem to me it has any limitation on research on how local companies
perform; it surely implies research of what is and isn't an efficacious
treatment.
But, if that's not what you meant, then I missed the mark, granted.
--
Walter Cohen
As my termite problem did not get any better in the interim, probably got
worse if you ask me, I went with a local operator licensed for the Sentricon
system. They are to install it in the upcoming week and monitor for the
next 2 years.
W
"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message news:fudknn$t9q$1...@aioe.org...
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> dpb <no...@non.net> wrote
> ...
>>>> Trouble is that real research isnt really feasible in this area,
>>>> because its so hard to quantify which operations do an effective
>>>> job.
>>
>>> I don't think that's really so at all. There is quite a lot of
>>> valid research.
>>
>> Not on how INDEPENDANTLY OWNED LOCAL COMPANYS perform there isnt.
> ...
>
> Well, when you say "which operations do and effective job", that doesn't seem to me it has any limitation on research
> on how local companies perform; it surely implies research of what is and isn't an efficacious treatment.
There's still a problem with how well the independantly locally owned company manages
to do what scientific research has shown is an efficacious treatment when done properly.
> But, if that's not what you meant, then I missed the mark, granted.
Yes, I was talking about research on how well the particular company
does the job, not scientific research on what is an efficacious treatment.
dpb
> Well, thanks to all for your responses.
> As my termite problem did not get any better in the interim, probably
> got worse if you ask me, I went with a local operator licensed for the
> Sentricon system. They are to install it in the upcoming week and
> monitor for the next 2 years.
>
What I know of Sentricon is essentially what I learned during this
thread -- I had heard of it previously but that was about it.
You didn't say anything I saw about what your actual termite problem is,
but from what I did see I'd think if you have an actual infestation
Sentricon alone wouldn't be the optimum action.
--
Chloe
Yeah, if there's an infestation you need to cut off their supply of water,
remove all wood that's already been infested (termites along with it), and
then create an effective barrier that'll prevent them from coming back. When
you say the company you hired is going to "monitor," you might want to check
into exactly what that means.
PugPCO
Areas close to water sources and or old dead trees have a better chance of
recruitment .
A lot of systems 'look' like Sentricon .
I am sure a label of the termite poison would clear up the issue .