The rain is winning
john d hamilton
shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix of
one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
I have put a bead of *clear* silicone around the metal frame base of the
shed, but its obviouslly not enough to stop the problem. The Yardmaster
technical advice staff have advised using Shell Tixophalte 'seal and fix'
flexible bitumen sealer. I cannot get this in any local shops and a web
search usually reveals wholesalers who are mainly selling to the trade, and
it also looks to be expensive stuff to buy.
This link posted to the tinypic website will show the photo I took of the
outside edge of the shed
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=27yok29&s=4
This picture below is on the inside and shows the metal frame base.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28vrkpj&s=4
Would anyone advise a novice on; Would lashings of the clear silicone
sealant I have already bought be more or less as good to use as a bitumen
sealent? I would prefer to use a clear silicone since masses of a black non
setting bitumen would not look so good smeared all around the base. but if
bitumen is best then i guess i can pick up some at Wickes, rather than use
the Shell product?
Another aspect of this wet floor problem is that on the side of the shed
(where this photo was taken) the edge of the cement base is only three or
four inches from the shed base. But on the opposite two sides the width of
the cement base is about 18 inches one side and about 20 inches on the
other. My thoughts are, is the cement porous like blotting paper? thus
soaking up a lot of water on these larger flat areas and transferring it
inside the shed? If the cement base is in fact behaving like this, then i'm
guessing i would
have to seal the whole width of the base area around the shed.
Since i'm using this outside flat space for storing ladders etc, i would not
want to have to
walk on a 'non setting' type sealant or i guess even a silicone sealant. If
this blotting paper type activity is likely to be 'for real', what might be
a way to seal this part of the base please? Grateful for any other advice
on this problem,
thanks.
Baz
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>I recently installed a yardmaster metal shed in the garden. After a good
> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
>
> The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix
> of
> one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
> cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
>
> I have put a bead of *clear* silicone around the metal frame base of the
> shed, but its obviouslly not enough to stop the problem. The Yardmaster
> technical advice staff have advised using Shell Tixophalte 'seal and fix'
> flexible bitumen sealer. I cannot get this in any local shops and a web
> search usually reveals wholesalers who are mainly selling to the trade,
> and
> it also looks to be expensive stuff to buy.
>
> This link posted to the tinypic website will show the photo I took of the
> outside edge of the shed
>
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=27yok29&s=4
>
I would say the rain is running down what looks like a sliding door and
collecting the channel and getting in that way.
Baz
BigWallop
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
>
> The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix
of
> one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
> cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
>
> I have put a bead of *clear* silicone around the metal frame base of the
> shed, but its obviouslly not enough to stop the problem. The Yardmaster
> technical advice staff have advised using Shell Tixophalte 'seal and fix'
> flexible bitumen sealer. I cannot get this in any local shops and a web
> search usually reveals wholesalers who are mainly selling to the trade,
and
> it also looks to be expensive stuff to buy.
>
If you want a good sealant, then go for Gutter Seal from any big DIY Store.
It's mainly used on the joints of rain guttering, but it works perfectly for
the kind of joints you have to fill. It's just as flexible as the bitumus
one you have been recommended by the shed team.
But, saying that, I'd also have a look at what Baz is saying about the door
area. If it is the door, then you can use a bath seal strip or similar to
blank around the edges of the door. You could even use a good brush type
draught excluder to stop the rain blowing / dripping in past the edges or
the runners.
Either way you go with it, take your time and good luck.
GregS
As far as sealing, I sealed my garage with some stuff from the cement company.
I could not find the stuff anywhere including The Home Depot. Its almost like a varnish,
or at least it smells like it. I would want to put flashings attached to the shed to form
a drip edge away from the shed cement pad.
I'll remember to put a slight angle on the concrete if I make one.
greg
Broadback
instructions slightly. I fitted the base fittings, with plenty of
silicon underneath then assembled the garage on top.
OG
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
When I asked a week ago or so, the recommendation from uk.d-i-y was to put a
raised floor of thick Sterling board (OSB) on treated floor joists.
As I had limited headroom I ignored this advice and put a waterproof layer
(2 layers of pond liner) inside the shed and laid the OSB straight on to
this. The liner extends up around the OSB so there shouldn't be any water
leakage from below or from the sides - but apparently I am being witless for
ignoring the advice of the group and will suffer terribly from condensation.
No sign of problems yet though!
I'm relying on gaps under the eaves to help with any internal condensation.
DerbyDad03
> "john d hamilton" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote in messagenews:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Grab a flashlight, a garden hose and a friend.
You and the flashlight go inside the shed, your friend and the hose
stay outside.
The friend makes it rain, you look for the leak(s).
Harry Bloomfield
> I recently installed a yardmaster metal shed in the garden. After a good
> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
>
> The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix of
> one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
> cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
My thoughts would be along the lines of it either running down the
sides, then into the base frame and from there overflowing into the
shed. Seems improbable that they would have designed it where it could
do this, so it must be landing on the edge of exposed concrete and
wicking under the frame to the inside.
Assuming the latter, many pre-cast garages suffer similar problems.
There are two solutions. One is to go around the inside and create a
2"x 2" triangular web of cement between wall and floor, trying to make
sure it sticks to the floor but not the wall - a narrow strip of
plastic sheet placed against wall will help achieve this.
Another way would be to raise the floor inside with a thin cement
screed. Either way will force the water to drain out, rather than be
wicked into the hut.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
jloomis
There are water sealer for concrete....
Thoroseal is one, water based sealer..........look it up
the problem is the shed sitting on a shared floor with the concrete and
seepage, absorbtion, or both....
A raised platform would be easy, out of 2x4 PT fir.....sit the shed on that.
jloomis
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
jloomis
walls do condense...You will see this on the southern exposure on a hot or
warm day........inside the building, and on the metal roof interior....
jloomis
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Cwatters
"john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
>
> The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix
> of
> one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
> cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
>
> I have put a bead of *clear* silicone around the metal frame base of the
> shed, but its obviouslly not enough to stop the problem.
I think you need to check with a hose to see where it's getting in.
On the first picture it looks like a bit is missing. On the right of the
picture there appears to be a triangular bead but on the left there appears
to be none or even a U shape channel.
> My thoughts are, is the cement porous like blotting paper? thus
> soaking up a lot of water on these larger flat areas and transferring it
> inside the shed? If the cement base is in fact behaving like this, then
> i'm guessing i would have to seal the whole width of the base area around
> the shed.
Cement/concrete isn't totally waterproof but I doubt that's the cause. The
rate at which water penetrates is very very slow and unlikely to cause
obvious puddles.
OG
"Cwatters" <colin.wat...@TurnersOakNOSPAM.plus.com> wrote in message
news:ssqdnSjdj7qp5prU...@posted.plusnet...
>
> "john d hamilton" <blue...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>I recently installed a yardmaster metal shed in the garden. After a good
>> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
>>
>> The sheds on a cement base with the top three or four inches being a mix
>> of
>> one cement to four sharp sand and under that top layer, it's a mix of one
>> cement to three sharp sand and three Wickes ballast (gravel).
>>
>> I have put a bead of *clear* silicone around the metal frame base of the
>> shed, but its obviouslly not enough to stop the problem.
>
> I think you need to check with a hose to see where it's getting in.
>
> On the first picture it looks like a bit is missing. On the right of the
> picture there appears to be a triangular bead but on the left there
> appears to be none or even a U shape channel.
If it's anything like the one we bought, the side panels fit into shallow
channels and water running down the panels will run off both inside and
outside the shed.
See my earlier post for one way of tackling the problem (2x layers pond
liner and 1 of OSB). The experts' recommendation would be to use 18mm OSB
raised on 4x4 treated joists with a dpm between the joists and the OSB. I
didn't follow their advice because of the limited headroom.
Cwatters
"OG" <ow...@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:6mre5jF...@mid.individual.net...
> If it's anything like the one we bought, the side panels fit into shallow
> channels and water running down the panels will run off both inside and
> outside the shed.
Yes that's what the OP's photo looks like, although this one from the
yardmaster web site appears to show it the other way up (eg n rather than u)
? Perhaps that's the problem?
http://www.yardmaster.co.uk/images/Anchor.GIF
> See my earlier post for one way of tackling the problem (2x layers pond
> liner and 1 of OSB). The experts' recommendation would be to use 18mm OSB
> raised on 4x4 treated joists with a dpm between the joists and the OSB. I
> didn't follow their advice because of the limited headroom.
I think that would work (in that the floor would be dry) but I'd be nervous
about how long the joists would last as there will be water underneath the
floor. At least it would be easy to replace.
I'm just starting an oak boarded shed. The timber walls will be built off a
1 brick high plinth/wall sitting on the concrete slab. The external boarding
will be taken down over the outside of the brick plinth so no chance of
water getting in. At the doorway (where there won't be a brick plinth) the
weather bar on the door will extend over the edge of the concrete slab
although I'm thinking of installing a linear drain.
OG
>
> "OG" <ow...@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:6mre5jF...@mid.individual.net...
> > If it's anything like the one we bought, the side panels fit into
> > shallow
>> channels and water running down the panels will run off both inside and
>> outside the shed.
>
> Yes that's what the OP's photo looks like, although this one from the
> yardmaster web site appears to show it the other way up (eg n rather than
> u) ? Perhaps that's the problem?
>
> http://www.yardmaster.co.uk/images/Anchor.GIF
>
>> See my earlier post for one way of tackling the problem (2x layers pond
>> liner and 1 of OSB). The experts' recommendation would be to use 18mm OSB
>> raised on 4x4 treated joists with a dpm between the joists and the OSB. I
>> didn't follow their advice because of the limited headroom.
>
> I think that would work (in that the floor would be dry) but I'd be
> nervous about how long the joists would last as there will be water
> underneath the floor. At least it would be easy to replace.
I'd assume you'd use tannalised timbers, and although they will sit in water
when it rains, that shouldn't be a problem as they will get a chance to dry
out a bit betweentimes
john d hamilton
news:gdncvd$p0c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>I recently installed a yardmaster metal shed in the garden. After a good
> shower of rain the inside has huge wet patches on the concrete floor.
Many thanks to all. The bottom frame is in the 'n' way up, and its the
only way up it can go, due to the shed construction.
If the cement blotting paper type soaking is not seen as a major problem,
then i'm thinking it must be running down the walls and into the 'n' shaped
frame at the bottom.
At the moment i'm thinking the answer is endless silicone sealant
everywhere.
i dont really want to get involved in laying down plastic sheet and wooden
flooring, especially in part because i dont like the idea of wet laying
under the plastic sheeting, this being the u.k. that i would think means
mold, mold and more mold. Thanks to all for your advice.