Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla or Mazda, which is best????
meteore
I am thinking of trading in my Camry for a smaller car.
In your opinion, which of the above small cars would last me longer,
give better gas mileage, be more reliable and have less upkeep,
insofar as parts wearing out?
I am only one person and I do not need a large car.
Thanking you in advance for your opinions.
Roger
Just A User
Well in my opinion I would choose the Toyota over the Honda, and then
the Honda over the Mazda. I have owned a Toyota and a Mazda. The Toyota
was more reliable. I have never owned a Honda, but know some who have
and they have nothing bad to say about them.
Joe
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm
Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
"meteore" <bigr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff7d25ae-efbc-4eab...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Shawn Hirn
<ff7d25ae-efbc-4eab...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
meteore <bigr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Check Consumer Reports, and the other car buying guides for their
reliability assessments.
Dave L
"meteore" <bigr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff7d25ae-efbc-4eab...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
For reliability and gas mileage I'd go with the Civic or Corolla. The
Corolla has been out for a while but I believe the redesign is coming out
for '09. I know a few people who has the newer Civic and love it, although
I have not personally driven it. I'm assuming you mean the Mazda3, which is
a really fun car to drive. The reliability is supposed to be decent but I
didn't care for their dealerships and sales managers/reps. Upkeep will
probably be better with the Civic and Corolla.
The Corolla is a smoother riding car but to me it's a little boring. The
new Civic has been getting excellent reviews and the drive is a little
sportier than the Corolla. The Mazda3 (2.3 liter version) is a blast to
drive. I test drove all 3 in '05 when I was shopping for a new car but the
new Civic wasn't out yet.
Do you consider how a car drives as well? Test drive all 3 and see what you
think. DO NOT let them pressure you into buying on the spot! Negotiate and
take your time. Car dealers are slow now anyway so they'll be calling you
back.
For the reasons you listed, I'd go with: 1) Civic 2) Corolla 3) Mazda3
For my personal reasons, I'd go with: 1) Civic 2) Mazda3 3) Corolla
All the cars I test drove were manual transmission.
-Dave
btw - In '05, I ended up going with an Accord with manual tranny. Was able
to get it to an excellent price, and it still runs great.
skar...@gmail.com
Today being the last day of the year, is the best day to buy an
automobile.
I realize Hyundai is not in your list, but I just wanted to draw your
attention to Sonata considering "frugality" into the equation.
Having driven Toyotas (Tercel, Camry, and Sienna) for several years,
we bought a Hyundai Sonata two years ago. The main reason for us to
even consider a Hyundai was the treatment we got from various Toyota
dealers. We are very happy with our purchase... not a single problem
so far. Yes, 2 years is not enough to vouch for the quality of the
product. (Our Toyotas have lasted 8 to 10 years.)
I strongly recommend you to visit http://www.edmunds.com/ and compare.
Good luck.
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of trading in my Camry for a smaller car.
>
> In your opinion, which of the above small cars would last me longer,
> give better gas mileage, be more reliable and have less upkeep,
> insofar as parts wearing out?
If those are the only criteria you're looking at, the Corolla would be
the best choice.
Dennis
wrote:
Having owned all three (Protege, Corolla and Civic) over the years,
all were well built and had great reliability with regular (scheduled)
maintainence. The current Corolla and the Civic get better fuel
mileage than the Mazda 3 -- Mazda has targeted a sportier image and a
younger demographic with their Zoom! Zoom! campaign and mileage has
not been a priority.
We just traded in my wife's aging Mazda Protege on a new Pontiac Vibe,
which is a Toyota Matrix (Corolla wagon) under the skin. The reason
we went with the Pontiac is because they are currently offering a
$2000 factory rebate, which made the final price pretty attractive,
plus there is a (good, small town) dealer nearby.
Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin
JL
American cars left. They all but forfeited the small car market to the
Japanese and Koreans. The Cobalt and Focus are kind of ugly.
I'd consider the Korean cars. They look better than the Japanese cars
and are cheaper. And the quality of the Korean cars has gone up while
the Japanese quality has gone down a bit. Plus the 10 year warranty of
Kia and Hyundai.
We bought a brand new Kia Sedona in 2005 and never have had any trouble
with it, yet. The fit and finish are good, and it looks nice.
meteore
Korean cars have little resale value in my opinion and depreciate
fast.
I shall buy either a civic or a corolla, depending partially on car
reviews, price, trade in value for my car and a test drive.
Roger
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
The advantage of a Honda or Toyota is that you end up buying less cars
over time.
Having owned both Honda and Toyota products, I'd tend toward Toyota
unless there was some overwhelming feature or price advantage for the Honda.
JTEM
> Well in my opinion I would choose the Toyota over the
> Honda, and then the Honda over the Mazda. I have
> owned a Toyota and a Mazda. The Toyota was more
> reliable.
I'd say that the Honda is a lot more plush -- if you want
it to be (with all the trim levels) -- and the Honda does
seem better as far as fit & finish goes, but that the
Toyota might be the better choice as far as maintenance
goes.
The Hondas can be maintenance pigs. And I don't mean
that they break down a lot -- they are amazingly reliable --
but that they will punish you if you don't spend the bucks
on regular maintenance.
I'd go for the Toyota...
Chris Hill
wrote:
>Thank you all for your input.
You post in a frugal newsgroup and talk of resale value? Not frugal
at all. Keep a car ten years and it has little resale value. Keep it
less time than that and you're screwing yourself out of money.
>
>Roger
JL
> at all. Keep a car ten years and it has little resale value. Keep it
> less time than that and you're screwing yourself out of money.
Yep. Maintain the car well and keep it 10 years. But some people just
get sick of a car and want something different after 5 years.
JL
> The advantage of a Honda or Toyota is that you end up buying less cars
> over time.
In 1992, my brother bought a '86 Toyota pickup (22r engine) that had
been owned by a package delivery/courier business. It had 350K miles.
He drove it another 150K miles and sold it with 500K miles. It still
started right up and ran well with half a million miles on it.
JTEM
> Yep. Maintain the car well and keep it 10 years.
Feh!
I never willingly sunk a dime in maintenance into my
Neon after the (three year) warranty period, and it
lasted an easy 11 years.
What finally killed it was rust damage to the undercarriage.
At one point -- about a year and a half before it was
pronounced dead -- I tried to get an alignment and couldn't.
Everything was just so rusted that they couldn't do it.
Most people OVER maintain their cars. Many people waste
money changing their oil every four or even three thousand
miles. Ironically, when the car companies own the cars and
are responsable for the maintenance costs -- like with some
leases -- twelve thousand mile oil changes are not unusual.
As always, common sense applies. When you buy a new
car you've got to follow the maintenance schedule dictated
by the warranty. Once that expires though, show some
discretion.
If the brakes aren't pulling to one side, making a noise you
never heard before or taking longer to stop you, you shouldn't
be thinking of spending a dime on them.
You should know, from driving your car on a regular basis,
if the alignment is good. If it is don't worry about it. If it
isn't, check your tires. A bad alignment is going to hurt you
most in the tires. If the tires are already on their way out,
you might think about holding out a little longer on the
alignment... having it done when you spring for the new
tires.
IT'S THE TIMING BELT, STUPID.
If there's on piece of preventive maintenance you should do
for your car, it's the timing belt. If it goes while you're on
the road you're not only stuck with a dead car, but any
dealer/mechanic will most likely try to screw you big time
on the repair cost.
"Oh, the timing belt? Well, we'll have to do the valves, too."
Sometimes they do have to, always they'll say they have
to....
Prices vary, but I know one guy who got hit up for a $900
repair bill, for the timing belt plus valve job. Of course,
that was at a dealer, and he most likely could have found
cheaper, but keep in mind it was for a 1995 Escort!
That's one whopping big bill for an old car!
Another piece of preventive maintenance you should consider
is your engine belt... or whatever belt powers your alternator
in your car, if there's more than one belt. Like the timing belt,
if it goes you're stuck with a dead car. However, unlike the
timing belt, it's usually easy and fairly cheaply replaced.
Anyhow, like I said, common sense. Don't skimp on the
parts that could save your life, but do reject the urge to
change your oil every five minutes.
Please, for all our sakes, after your warranty period expires,
tell the Saudis to go pound sand, and change your oil no
more often than 8 thousand miles!
Check it regularly, sure. Add it when it needs it, but get off
the insane 3 or 4 thousand mile oil changes!
max
<b46d1f31-4b22-405d...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> JL <no...@nowheresville.biz> wrote:
>
> > Yep. Maintain the car well and keep it 10 years.
>
> Feh!
>
> I never willingly sunk a dime in maintenance into my
> Neon after the (three year) warranty period, and it
> lasted an easy 11 years.
>
> What finally killed it was rust damage to the undercarriage.
> At one point -- about a year and a half before it was
> pronounced dead -- I tried to get an alignment and couldn't.
> Everything was just so rusted that they couldn't do it.
>
> Most people OVER maintain their cars. Many people waste
> money changing their oil every four or even three thousand
> miles. Ironically, when the car companies own the cars and
> are responsable for the maintenance costs -- like with some
> leases -- twelve thousand mile oil changes are not unusual.
>
> As always, common sense applies. When you buy a new
> car you've got to follow the maintenance schedule dictated
> by the warranty. Once that expires though, show some
> discretion.
>
> If the brakes aren't pulling to one side, making a noise you
> never heard before or taking longer to stop you, you shouldn't
> be thinking of spending a dime on them.
Jenny,
Preventative maintenance is kind of a hobby horse for me...
This is not a flame, but a sincere disagreement, so i'm not needling you
for the sake of usenetterly fun.
Preventative maintenance is _preventative_. It should all be done.
Your brakes advice is risky. If one waits until one's brakes are
showing signs of malfunction like noise or pulling to one side, one has
probably deferred necessary repairs to the point that one will incur a
more expensive repair (damaged rotors as an example) than if one had
just had the damn things worked on according to the schedule.
Failure to maintain clean oil will cause premature ring wear, which
leads to blow-by which leads to crank case ventilation system coking
which leads to stuck PCV valves which leads to overload failure of
catalytic converters which can cause even more damage, including heat
damage to the passenger compartment. Just as an example.
In general, ignoring recommended maintenance schedules greatly increases
your likelihood of catastrophic component failure or collateral damage
to components and subsystems.
In a simpler view, the vast overwhelming majority of automobile owners
simply are not even remotely competent nor capable of outsmarting the
periodic maintenence schedule for their vehicle.
A very important subsidiary role of preventative maintenance is the
inspection role, looking for porblems while you've got the equipment
taken apart. Very stitch-in-time stuff, hard to overstate the value of
this.
I don't doubt your neon lasted 11 years, but it was clearly a dangerous
piece of crap road hazard when you finally scrapped it's rusted hulk.
I've seen 11 year old Neons (my SO had one). I'm willing to bet cash
money that your mileage and compression sucked swamp juice and the
transmission stunk by the time you dumped it.
BTW, in the midwest, the single best thing one can do to extend the life
of an old POS chassis/undercarriage is to run it through the car wash
frequently during road-salt conditions. *This is especially helpful*
for older vehicles, once road grit has abraded the anticorrosion coating
from the underbody. The other helpful thing is to assure one's (cold
weather especially) vehicle warms up enough to drive water vapor out of
the engine oil; short trips promote tribological mayonnaise, and that's
just terrible for a car.
.max
--
The part of betatron @ earthlink . net was played by a garden gnome
JTEM
> In a simpler view, the vast overwhelming majority of automobile
> owners simply are not even remotely competent nor capable
> of outsmarting the periodic maintenence schedule for their
> vehicle.
But the manufacturers are, and when the maintenance is on their
dime it DOES NOT take place at the ridiculous frequency/cost
that most people believe it has to occur.
Not even for BMW. Heck, I've had BMW owners tell me that their
"Free Oil Change" takes place every 15,000 miles!
So unless BMWs are falling off the roads left & right from choked
PVC valves and over heated catalytic converters, I'm sticking to
my guns here.
> I've seen 11 year old Neons (my SO had one). I'm willing to bet
> cash money that your mileage and compression sucked swamp
> juice and the transmission stunk by the time you dumped it.
It was a stick shift, so I never suffered those issues.
When it was new the milage sucked like you wouldn't believe...
for anything other than highway driving.
The engine remained fairly strong, all the way to the junk yard.
And, oh, my name is not Jenny.
What no doubt SHORTENED the life of my car was the fact of
it's almost daily use in the first year... a year I put only 2,000
miles on it.
max
> > In a simpler view, the vast overwhelming majority of automobile
> > owners simply are not even remotely competent nor capable
> > of outsmarting the periodic maintenence schedule for their
> > vehicle.
>
> But the manufacturers are, and when the maintenance is on their
> dime it DOES NOT take place at the ridiculous frequency/cost
> that most people believe it has to occur.
>
> Not even for BMW. Heck, I've had BMW owners tell me that their
> "Free Oil Change" takes place every 15,000 miles!
>
> So unless BMWs are falling off the roads left & right from choked
> PVC valves and over heated catalytic converters, I'm sticking to
> my guns here.
Ok. you might want to put some bullets in those guns, then.
BMW achieves their extended interval service by using synthetic oil,
which goes a lot further between changes. That's a very important
distinction.
There cofactors added to your oil (anti oxidants, viscosity buffers,
detergents) that keep it nice and oily. They go away after 3~5 k miles
and the oil stops performing its tribological functions.
> The engine remained fairly strong, all the way to the junk yard.
>
> And, oh, my name is not Jenny.
i thought you were JTEM, Jenny The English Major from talk.bizarre.
> What no doubt SHORTENED the life of my car was the fact of
> it's almost daily use in the first year... a year I put only 2,000
> miles on it.
Washing the chloride ions off the underbody would have had a salutory
effect. Chloride contamination is the dominant factor in vehicle
corrosion.
JL
> Neon after the (three year) warranty period, and it
> lasted an easy 11 years.
Didn't even change the oil? Wow. I do know people who never change
their oil, so eventually the engine wears out due to the dirty, old oil,
so then they have to start adding oil to it because the engine is now
burning oil. So they add oil to it to keep it filled, so in effect,
this is their "oil change". Oil changes are vital -- oil is not only a
lubricant but also serves to clean the engine and cool the engine. This
isn't snake oil; it's science/physics. If you want to hold off longer
between oil changes, you can use synthetic oil, but keep it mind it is
more expensive than regular oil. Plus, all the dirt, grit, and metal
stay in the engine longer if you are using synthetic and wait 15K
between oil changes. I prefer 5K changes with regular oil.
I used to work at a place that had a delivery truck for our business.
The manager was one of these know-it-all types. She never took the
truck in for service. I was checking the oil one day because the engine
was starting to run rough and was smoking, and she yelled at me to get
back to work. The oil was so low, it wasn't even showing up on the
dipstick. I told her the truck needed oil. She asked if the oil light
was on. I said no. So she said it mustn't be low on oil then. So I
told her that the oil light only comes on if there's a drop in oil
pressure; it doesn't really indicate how much oil is in the truck. Plus
I told her it IS low on oil if the oil doesn't show up on the
dipstick. She wouldn't let me add any oil. The engine lasted a few
more days before blowing up. She tried to cover it up with the District
Manager. One of the first things he asked her was if she had been
getting oil changes done on the truck. She lied and said yes. If she
weren't such a nasty bitch, I would have kept my mouth shut, but I told
the DM what happened.
barbie gee
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, JTEM wrote:
> JL <no...@nowheresville.biz> wrote:
>
>> Yep. Maintain the car well and keep it 10 years.
>
> Feh!
>
> I never willingly sunk a dime in maintenance into my
> Neon after the (three year) warranty period, and it
> lasted an easy 11 years.
>
> What finally killed it was rust damage to the undercarriage.
> At one point -- about a year and a half before it was
> pronounced dead -- I tried to get an alignment and couldn't.
> Everything was just so rusted that they couldn't do it.
>
> Most people OVER maintain their cars. Many people waste
> money changing their oil every four or even three thousand
> miles. Ironically, when the car companies own the cars and
> are responsable for the maintenance costs -- like with some
> leases -- twelve thousand mile oil changes are not unusual.
I suspect you wouldn't mind if your local hospital "over maintained" their
respirators or their defibrillators or other medical equipment...
Dave L
"JL" <no...@nowheresville.biz> wrote in message
news:1200069...@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
Amazing how arrogant some people get. Did she have a job after you told the
DM?
Logan Shaw
> But the manufacturers are, and when the maintenance is on their
> dime it DOES NOT take place at the ridiculous frequency/cost
> that most people believe it has to occur.
>
> Not even for BMW. Heck, I've had BMW owners tell me that their
> "Free Oil Change" takes place every 15,000 miles!
While I agree some people go overboard changing their oil more
often than necessary just to give themselves a good feeling about
how they're maintaining their car, I also think it's relevant that
different cars are designed differently.
On my car, the manufacturer recommends changing the oil every 10,000
miles, but they also require oil meeting a certain manufacturer spec
called VW 502 00 (because the car is an Audi, which is a VW company).
This basically works out to fully-synthetic oil that is 5W-40 or
0W-30. This is not typical oil. It's not even very easy to find
in auto parts stores. Last I checked, some stores have none of it
at all, and some stores sell one or two products that meet that spec.
I believe the situation is similar with BMW, Mercedes Benz, and Volvo
in that those manufacturers have their own oil specifications which
are required for some of their models.
Also, on certain models of European cars, the engine's oil capacity
is relatively high. If you change the oil on such a car only every
15,000 miles, in some cases they get away with such a long interval
because they've designed a relatively small engine to hold 6 quarts
of oil, or even more. For example, from what I can dig up, a
Mercedes Benz C230 has a 2.5L engine with an oil capacity of 8.5
quarts. A typical engine of that size would have an oil capacity
of more like 4 or 5 quarts.
- Logan
Shawn Hirn
<49dd5735-301f-4cf0...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
meteore <bigr...@gmail.com> wrote:
My dad bought a Corolla last spring. He's very happy with it, but he's a
low milage driver (very low milage). I just bought a Prius a few days
ago. I decided to spend the extra money on the Prius for several
reasons, one of which is gas savings. I figure that even though the
price of gas now is not high enough to justify the extra cost of the
Prius over the Corolla, gas prices keep going up.
max
Shawn Hirn <sr...@comcast.net> wrote:
My girlfriend has a Prius. Damn fine car. You'll find it to be
amazingly quiet at highway speeds.
wish i had one instead of my pt cruiser
m...@privacy.net
car that will alert you to maint items needing done at
user specified intervals?
Shawn Hirn
wrote:
> Can anyone recommend good maintenance software for a
> car that will alert you to maint items needing done at
> user specified intervals?
Maintenance software? Any calendar program can do that. For example, I
just bought a new Prius and the dealer said I would be fine getting the
oil changed every 5000 miles or six months, whatever comes first. I put
down an entry in iCal (on my Mac) to do it every four months on the
first Saturday of the month. Works for me, and I don't need any special
software to do it. Just plug in the time periods from your owner's
manual into your calendar program. If you are not a Mac user, there are
no doubt tons available for Windows and Linux, as well as numerous
options on the web.
Shawn Hirn
max <beta...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hah! The first time I started it up after I received the keys at the
dealer last Thurday, my Prius was so quiet, I got out of the car and ran
into the dealership to tell them the car wouldn't start! I am still
amazed at how quiet my Pruis is!
m...@privacy.net
>Maintenance software? Any calendar program can do that
yes.... but some thing are better done on a mileage
basis rather than a calendar basis.
Would you rotate your tires every 6 months if that car
had only been driven 2000 miles? See what I mean?
Shawn Hirn
wrote:
No, I would do it once a year at that rate. Still easy enough to put on
a calendar.
clams_casino
I've only rotated my Accord (Michelin) & Pilot (Goodyear) tires each 20k
& obtained 100k miles on the Accord tires & are well on my way to 100k
on the Pilot tires.
The Pilot tires were rebalanced once at 20k. The Accord tires were
never rebalanced.