I am losing my butt
timeOday
"Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
funds.
It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.
clams_casino
Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
pensions with stock market investments?
Vic Smith
Some like to call SS a Ponzi scheme.
Others think the same about the Wall Street casino.
--Vic
Don Klipstein
>
>"Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>
>Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
>funds.
And what was its rate of return in the past 20 and 30 years? What was
its rate of return in its worst 30-year stretch?
Go ahead and apply the methodology of this to years and decades prior to
when it existed - what was the worst 30 year stretch since the indexex
were created? Since the S&P 500 was created?
And in the past 30 years or any other 30 year stretch, how has stock
investing to a broad market index fared compared to bonds, CDs, real
estate or precious metals?
If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!
Otherwise see how well (if existing that far back, using its rules and
expense ratios that it had when it existed) Vanguard "Index 500" or better
still Vanguard "Index Total" would have for one *now*, if bought into even
at the 1929 or 1971 highs!
S&P 500 if bought into at the 1929 high and sold at the 1982 low, with
reinvestment of dividends, would have achieved annual rate of return
around 7%. On average long term real estate historically did not do that
well, with exception for "investment real estate" that includes both
capital appreciation and rent collection!
Index funds have a bit of an advantage in taxable accounts - lower
turnover rate means more years of gains to compound tax-deferred.
Especially this is true when the index fund is a total USA stiock market
one such as Vanguard "Index Total", so that the fund does not sell stocks
as they move from one to another index other than Wilshire 5000 that is
designed to represent close to all USA publicly traded stock value.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
timeOday
But what would happen if the US economy takes a long-term turn for the
worse? SS benefits would have to come into line with the new, lower
standard of living of working people anyways.
Demographics are changing. No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it
still boils down to workers supporting retirees. Even if every retiree
stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody is ready
and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.
There really are no guarantees. Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank
deposits against bank failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against
inflation, nor devaluation of the dollar.
All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or
very near retirement.
Rod Speed
> clams_casino wrote
>> timeOday wrote
>>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index funds.
>>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
>>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.
>> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and pensions with stock market investments?
> But what would happen if the US economy takes a long-term turn for the worse?
That isnt going to happen any half century soon, and when it does, you'll be dead.
> SS benefits would have to come into line with the new, lower standard of living of working people anyways.
That isnt what has happened with economys that have seen a long term turn for the worse.
> Demographics are changing.
They always do. Any properly designed system allows for that.
> No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it
> still boils down to workers supporting retirees.
No it doesnt, plenty have more for their time past work than just social security.
Its only the dregs that end up entirely dependant on social security.
> Even if every retiree stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody
> is ready and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.
Wrong again. They can spend it on what they provide for themselves instead.
> There really are no guarantees.
Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars, the great depression and
countless other smaller wars fine and we have worked out how to avoid depressions now
and even if we do have another, it will be much easier to take than the great depression was.
And we wont see another world war either.
> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against
> inflation, nor devaluation of the dollar.
They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.
> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.
Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
hchi...@hotmail.com
Klipstein) wrote:
> If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
>then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!
Don, the problems are global at this point. Citing past performance
of the market isn't a valid barometer anymore. The performance of the
stock market(s) has not been actual performance for a number of years,
probably starting in the Nixon years. In the more recent past, the
combination of derivatives and unsafe lending practices has
artificially inflated the market and the values of certain key
companies. Derivatives should NEVER have been allowed as financial
instruments.
Monday's market going down was bad, but if things go the way I expect,
a retrenchment back to a resistance point on the DOW at 10,000 is
likely, and then if that is broken, down to the 7,000 mark -
_provided_ that the market plunge doesn't irreperably break some of
the manufacturing sector. Retail will be messy, but can sort itself
out over time.
Be aware that if WaMu fails, there will be some serious stress on the
FDIC, which is only funded to 50B. The amount of insured deposits
that money has to cover in all insured banks is on the order of 1T.
If Congress ups the funding to the FDIC, that will be a big signal
that money will soon start being worth a lot less, and there could be
more unraveling of the phantom economy.
I hope the heck that my concerns from well over a year ago don't prove
to be valid, since I don't see any indication that either of the two
candidates is capable of pulling us out of the swamp.
One thing that *really* bugs me is that the media keeps calling our
economic woes a "Crisis of Confidence" as if it was the fault of the
average Joe not believeing in Peter Pan hard enough. More accurately,
it is a "Crisis of Con Games," where the cons of the past bankers,
economists, and government entities are being exposed to the light of
day and have begun dissolving.
Don Klipstein
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:50:02 +0000 (UTC), d...@manx.misty.com (Don
>Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
>>then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!
>
>Don, the problems are global at this point. Citing past performance
>of the market isn't a valid barometer anymore. The performance of the
>stock market(s) has not been actual performance for a number of years,
>probably starting in the Nixon years.
The USA broad stock market has actrually done fairly well from the 1971
high to now.
> In the more recent past, the
>combination of derivatives and unsafe lending practices has
>artificially inflated the market and the values of certain key
>companies. Derivatives should NEVER have been allowed as financial
>instruments.
This appears to me to be a modern-time-specific USA-specific problem.
Broad market stock investing over larger timeframes and/or larger portion
of the industrialized world solves that.
Keep in mind that derivatives are not a part of any major stock index,
and major/significant stock index mutual funds only use derivatives to
at most the extent to simulate 100% investment into the indexed stocks
while keeping some cash on hand for handling withdrawals.
>Monday's market going down was bad, but if things go the way I expect,
>a retrenchment back to a resistance point on the DOW at 10,000 is
>likely, and then if that is broken, down to the 7,000 mark -
>_provided_ that the market plunge doesn't irreperably break some of
>the manufacturing sector. Retail will be messy, but can sort itself
>out over time.
>
>Be aware that if WaMu fails, there will be some serious stress on the
>FDIC, which is only funded to 50B. The amount of insured deposits
>that money has to cover in all insured banks is on the order of 1T.
>If Congress ups the funding to the FDIC, that will be a big signal
>that money will soon start being worth a lot less, and there could be
>more unraveling of the phantom economy.
>
>I hope the heck that my concerns from well over a year ago don't prove
>to be valid, since I don't see any indication that either of the two
>candidates is capable of pulling us out of the swamp.
>
>One thing that *really* bugs me is that the media keeps calling our
>economic woes a "Crisis of Confidence" as if it was the fault of the
>average Joe not believeing in Peter Pan hard enough. More accurately,
>it is a "Crisis of Con Games," where the cons of the past bankers,
>economists, and government entities are being exposed to the light of
>day and have begun dissolving.
The USA stock market has provided good returns even through the Great
Depression, WWII and Nixon and Carter!
If you think that America is now going down long-term, then invest in
index or otherwise-well-diversified funds that are international in
nature!
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Jeff
> timeOday wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>
>>
>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of
>> index funds.
It looks to me that the DJIA is just about where it was 7 1/2 years ago.
>>
>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
>>
>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.
>
>
> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
> pensions with stock market investments?
No one is talking about that gem anymore.
The main trouble with the SS trust fund is that the government has
"borrowed" it to run other branches of government. In effect it is
backed by treasury bonds.
All that is fine when you have a modicum of fiscal responsibility.
Traditionally taxes go down to boost the economy when needed (they never
pay for themselves) and when the economy improves, money should go back
in. What we have had has been a continuous drain such that there is no
money for this rainy day. The administration has consistently taken the
foolish bet that everything is rosy and nothing needs to paid for when
it can be borrowed.
Wallstreet has made much of the same bet. Greed drove them to take
the easy money. Many of them just assumed that everything would be
rosy, after all, things were going their way. No one stopped to really
look at the collateral that backed up these bets because it would get in
the way of making the money.
It shouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to see that there was not
just a housing bubble but an SUV bubble and a credit bubble brewing.
Jeff
hchi...@hotmail.com
Klipstein) wrote:
>In <fqguc41nngv5034nv...@4ax.com>, hchi...@hotmail.com
>wrote:
>>On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:50:02 +0000 (UTC), d...@manx.misty.com (Don
>>Klipstein) wrote:
>>
>>> If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
>>>then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!
>>
>>Don, the problems are global at this point. Citing past performance
>>of the market isn't a valid barometer anymore. The performance of the
>>stock market(s) has not been actual performance for a number of years,
>>probably starting in the Nixon years.
>
> The USA broad stock market has actrually done fairly well from the 1971
>high to now.
It has done so on increasingly unreal money.
>> In the more recent past, the
>>combination of derivatives and unsafe lending practices has
>>artificially inflated the market and the values of certain key
>>companies. Derivatives should NEVER have been allowed as financial
>>instruments.
>
> This appears to me to be a modern-time-specific USA-specific problem.
>Broad market stock investing over larger timeframes and/or larger portion
>of the industrialized world solves that.
Sorry, but this is incorrect. Derivatives are involved too much in
the support of multi-nationals, especially in banking, real estate,
and insurance to make this a solution.
> Keep in mind that derivatives are not a part of any major stock index,
>and major/significant stock index mutual funds only use derivatives to
>at most the extent to simulate 100% investment into the indexed stocks
>while keeping some cash on hand for handling withdrawals.
Exactly the point. Derivatives just snuck in under the radar and grew
way out of proportion, based on rosey projections of the future.
"Risk" was sold at bargain basement prices, and those buying the risk
incurred huge exposure. When only a few of those risks were called
in, everything worked. It now appears that a tipping point has been
reached with just residential real estate corrections, and that
solidity of core institutions is now undermined beyond the ability for
some of them to recover from the blow, much less any added strain. As
each one falls, it adds to the burdens of others, and the government
can only do so much to prop the losers up.
>>Monday's market going down was bad, but if things go the way I expect,
>>a retrenchment back to a resistance point on the DOW at 10,000 is
>>likely, and then if that is broken, down to the 7,000 mark -
>>_provided_ that the market plunge doesn't irreperably break some of
>>the manufacturing sector. Retail will be messy, but can sort itself
>>out over time.
>>
>>Be aware that if WaMu fails, there will be some serious stress on the
>>FDIC, which is only funded to 50B. The amount of insured deposits
>>that money has to cover in all insured banks is on the order of 1T.
>>If Congress ups the funding to the FDIC, that will be a big signal
>>that money will soon start being worth a lot less, and there could be
>>more unraveling of the phantom economy.
>>
>>I hope the heck that my concerns from well over a year ago don't prove
>>to be valid, since I don't see any indication that either of the two
>>candidates is capable of pulling us out of the swamp.
>>
>>One thing that *really* bugs me is that the media keeps calling our
>>economic woes a "Crisis of Confidence" as if it was the fault of the
>>average Joe not believeing in Peter Pan hard enough. More accurately,
>>it is a "Crisis of Con Games," where the cons of the past bankers,
>>economists, and government entities are being exposed to the light of
>>day and have begun dissolving.
>
> The USA stock market has provided good returns even through the Great
>Depression, WWII and Nixon and Carter!
Nixon flipped off the idea of gold reserves matching currency, to
promote the economy and pay off debts. The gains in the market after
that point have been partly real gains, and partly paper gains with no
underlying substance. Once derivatives came into play, questionable
value was resold numerous times. A mortgage and the associated fees
(profit) could be generated, then sold off, along with the risk, and
the process repeated.
If you can sell 1,000 widgets and get a profit of a few thousand on
each sale of a widget, then sell off the support of those widgets and
the risk of widget failure for a minimal amount, you don't care how
many defective widgets that you sell. FM&FM choked from defective
widgets, a bunch of banks were choked, and some offshore investors
were choked.
FM&FM and the offshore investors are not as big an issue as the banks.
The banks are not only stock companies, but hold the purse for other
companies. No purse means no growth, means general market
instability, means leveraged companies failing, etc.. Offshore
investors may pull back, which I view as a good thing, and the
government can handle FM&FM for a while, but when a bank suddenly
poofs out of existence, a bunch of businesses are left scrambling in a
tight market.
> If you think that America is now going down long-term, then invest in
>index or otherwise-well-diversified funds that are international in
>nature!
I don't see that as working. The markets are just too intermingled.
I also don't think that the reaction of the market is currently
following any single overriding logic, but is dominated by players
using a few high profile theories of investment and a lot of praying.
Part of what concerns me is that the corrections in the housing sector
have strained the resources of the financial sector, and the fall of
parts of the financial sector exacerbates the pressure on insurance,
which depends on a rising market. Insurance now has humongous pay
outs coming due from both Gustav and Ike, to the tune of billions, in
a down market. Reserves won't cover all the losses, and forward
borrowing will be limited.
As insurance isn't capable of making claim pay outs (much less
stockholder profits), and financials seek less risk in investments,
money will dry up for manufacturing and other businesses. The Fed
lowering the borrowing rate is already not getting passed through to
the end borrowers, but is being used by financial institutions to
bring some correction to their own books. A further lowering will do
little to stimulate the economy.
So what happens next? Money for lending dries up, insurance rates
rise, and more money is printed, lowering its value and increasing
prices.
The near term fetish object has already been exposed. Oil
distributors just made a majorly stupid profit play on gasoline after
Ike that will put them in the near-term spotlight and focus public
wrath on them. Both candidates and congress will call for various
cures to the "crisis of oil" that sound great but don't address the
underlying issues of the greater problem. We could see new regulation
of oil, or even a nationalization of it until the "crisis" (as seen by
the public and politicians) has passed. In the meantime, huge sums
will evaporate into thin air and thousands of retirees will be looking
for work in a high unemployment market.
At this point, it should be obvious to all that we don't have
capitalism, nor just a managed economy, but a form of socialism for
corporations with no significant consequences for mis-steps by
corporate leaders. When McCain says that the strength of the economy
rests in the work ethic of the American people, he is repeating the
message of the czars that the strength of Russia lies in the peasants.
Peasants can starve with little consequence to the ruling class. When
Obama singles out the past presidency for creating the problem, he
shows an unwillingness to recognize the greater problems created by
both sides of the aisle.
As much as I hate to say it, China may have the right idea of shooting
corrupt officials and business owners. Without some consequence for
the worst crimes, we can only expect greater offenses.
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Its only the dregs that end up entirely dependant on social security.
Such as the severely disabled? You sound like Der Fuhrer.
>Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars, the great depression and
>countless other smaller wars fine
Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths? Not to mention
all the INNOCENT victims wiped out by our so-called righteous battles?
Our nation has terrorized many other nations for many years now...and
gotten away with it, so far. This time around, it won't work.
> and we have worked out how to avoid depressions now
Nope. Capitalism has diligently wiped out all those safeguards put in
place by FDR.
>and even if we do have another, it will be much easier to take than the great depression was.
Nope. It will be far more disastrous, and most likely unrecoverable. 3
billion MORE people are in the capitalist game now ("Chindia"),
grabbing as much and as fast as they can, limited resources of oil and
gas.
>Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus. There is NO safe haven when it
comes to gambling...er, I mean investing.
--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal
timeOday
>> Even if every retiree stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody
>> is ready and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.
>
> Wrong again. They can spend it on what they provide for themselves instead.
What does that mean?
Imagine everybody in a hypothetical society decides to spend their money
on their 401K's instead of raising children.
After that society ages and there is nobody to provide goods and
services, what use are the investments? Their value would be destroyed
by inflation as all the "wealthy" retirees outbid each other for the
services of the last guy healthy enough to grow their food and push them
around in a wheelchair.
You can't design an economic system to negate shifting demographics.
All you can do is rely on immigration to keep the worker-to-nonworker
ratio high enough, or technology to increase productivity so the ratio
can fall without destroying everybody's standard of living.
clams_casino
> The USA broad stock market has actrually done fairly well from the 1971
>high to now.
>
Especially if one ignores the past ten years.
h
"timeOday" <timeOda...@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:Db6dnYnw4LZzl03V...@comcast.com...
>
> You can't design an economic system to negate shifting demographics.
> All you can do is rely on immigration to keep the worker-to-nonworker
> ratio high enough, or technology to increase productivity so the ratio
> can fall without destroying everybody's standard of living.
Human population needs to drop down to a manageable 3-4 billion as soon as
possible. Adding more people makes the problem worse, not better. The "make
more people to grow the economy" garbage is a ponzi scheme that will
inevitably have disastrous consequences. We're starting to see it already.
We have to either consume a helluva lot less of everything, or we need to
have fewer people around to do the consuming. Your choice, but I'll take the
fewer people option. If people would just limit themselves one child, (or
none) for just a few generations, we could stave off the coming collapse
when we run out of resources. I'm an only child of two only children, and
I'm childfree. I've done my part towards negative population growth, which
is what we really need to combat economic and climate issues, since the
government isn't doing anything about either.
timeOday
> We have to either consume a helluva lot less of everything, or we need to
> have fewer people around to do the consuming. Your choice, but I'll take the
> fewer people option.
Oh, I know. Ultimately the population *will* level off whether or not
it's a conscious choice. I don't claim to know how close we are, but
eventually we'd all be shoulder to shoulder. Of course in practice
starvation will kick in long before that happens.
However, a mushrooming population does improve the standard of living
*while it lasts* because a youth-skewed population is more able-bodied.
That, and the fact that nothing is more central to evolution than the
biological imperative to reproduce, means it's an addiction that will be
very hard to break.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it still boils down to workers supporting retirees.
>> No it doesnt, plenty have more for their time past work than just social security.
>> Its only the dregs that end up entirely dependant on social security.
> Such as the severely disabled?
Only the dregs of the severely disabled end up entirely dependant on social security.
> You sound like Der Fuhrer.
He gassed them, fool.
>>> There really are no guarantees.
>> Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars,
>> the great depression and countless other smaller wars fine
> Fine?
Yep, fine.
> What about the incalculable suffering
Pure fantasy.
> and deaths?
Everyone dies sometime.
> Not to mention all the INNOCENT victims wiped out by our so-called righteous battles?
Nothing to do with the guarantees being discussed.
> Our nation has terrorized many other nations for many years now...
Nothing to do with the guarantees being discussed.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> and gotten away with it, so far. This time around, it won't work.
Corse it will, just like it did during the great depression and those world wars, you watch.
>> and we have worked out how to avoid depressions now
> Nope.
Yep.
> Capitalism has diligently wiped out all those safeguards put in place by FDR.
They werent put in place by FDR, they were put in place by Congress.
And we wouldnt have seen the bailout of Bear Stearns, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac if your lie was true.
>> and even if we do have another, it will be much easier to take than the great depression was.
> Nope.
Yep, you watch. There isnt even a technical recession yet.
> It will be far more disastrous, and most likely unrecoverable.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys, you watch.
> 3 billion MORE people are in the capitalist game now ("Chindia"), grabbing
> as much and as fast as they can, limited resources of oil and gas.
And we have invented the technology that allows us to yawn about that, nukes.
>>> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.
>> Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus.
Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
> There is NO safe haven when it comes to gambling...er, I mean investing.
Wrong, as always. You can keep it in FDIC guaranteed accounts if you want to, fool.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Even if every retiree stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody
>>> is ready and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.
>> Wrong again. They can spend it on what they provide for themselves instead.
> What does that mean?
That they dont have to employ anyone to do what you listed.
> Imagine everybody in a hypothetical society decides to
> spend their money on their 401K's instead of raising children.
Wont ever happen, there will always be plenty that choose to have children or keep having them by accident.
> After that society ages and there is nobody to provide
> goods and services, what use are the investments?
Thats a completely silly question because that will never happen.
You might as well ask how we would avoid getting gassed if everyone choose to eat beans and all farted at once.
> Their value would be destroyed by inflation as all the "wealthy"
> retirees outbid each other for the services of the last guy healthy
> enough to grow their food and push them around in a wheelchair.
Mindlessly silly and completely irrelevant scenario. Taint gunna happen.
> You can't design an economic system to negate shifting demographics.
Corse you can. The current economic system does that by allowing immigration.
> All you can do is rely on immigration to keep the worker-to-nonworker ratio high enough,
And that is part of the design of the current economic system.
> or technology to increase productivity
Which it ALWAYS does.
> so the ratio can fall without destroying everybody's standard of living.
And both of those keep happening, to ensure that everyone's standard of living continues fine.
Even Japan that chooses to minimise immigration still manages to maintain its living standards
fine, essentially by relying on technology mechanise what previously used a lot more manual
labor, and to import what is produced using very heavily mechanised agriculture in other parts
of the world, and pays for those by essentially swapping those for the cars etc that are produced
in highly automated factorys in Japan etc. Works fine.
Rod Speed
> timeOday <timeOda...@theknack.net> wrote
>> You can't design an economic system to negate shifting demographics.
>> All you can do is rely on immigration to keep the worker-to-nonworker
>> ratio high enough, or technology to increase productivity so the
>> ratio can fall without destroying everybody's standard of living.
> Human population needs to drop down to a manageable 3-4 billion as soon as possible.
Nope, not in the modern first world which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> Adding more people makes the problem worse, not better.
Nope, not in the modern first world which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> The "make more people to grow the economy" garbage is a ponzi scheme that will inevitably have disastrous
> consequences.
Nope, not in the modern first world which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> We're starting to see it already.
Nope, not in the modern first world which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> We have to either consume a helluva lot less of everything, or we need to have fewer people around to do the
> consuming.
It aint that binary. We can move to better sources of energy like nukes instead.
> Your choice, but I'll take the fewer people option.
I'll take the improved technology route myself.
> If people would just limit themselves one child, (or none) for just a few generations,
No need in the modern first world which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> we could stave off the coming collapse when we run out of resources.
We wont ever run out of resources, the most we will ever do is change the resources we use.
> I'm an only child of two only children, and I'm childfree. I've done my part towards negative population growth,
And you didnt need to do that because you are part of the modern first world
which isnt even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> which is what we really need to combat economic and climate issues,
Nope, we'll survive them fine, you watch.
> since the government isn't doing anything about either.
Nothing needs to be done in the first world.
It would be handy if the worst of the third world came to their senses, but thats unlikely while every those fools
in Rome and the Muslims dont come to their senses on the number of kids they encourage their fools to have.
Rod Speed
> h wrote:
>
>> We have to either consume a helluva lot less of everything, or we
>> need to have fewer people around to do the consuming. Your choice,
>> but I'll take the fewer people option.
>
> Oh, I know. Ultimately the population *will* level off whether or not it's a conscious choice.
It has already right thruout the modern first and second world. Not one of
them is even self replacing on population now if you take out immigration.
> I don't claim to know how close we are, but
> eventually we'd all be shoulder to shoulder.
Nope, nothing like it. It isnt even like that in the highest density of population
places in the world like HongKong.
> Of course in practice starvation will kick in long before that happens.
Its likely that the rest of the world will end up self limiting without
that just like ALL of the modern first and second world has done.
> However, a mushrooming population does improve the standard of living
> *while it lasts* because a youth-skewed population is more able-bodied.
Have fun explaining china compared with india.
> That, and the fact that nothing is more central to evolution than the biological
> imperative to reproduce, means it's an addiction that will be very hard to break.
Nope, thats happened right thruout the modern first and second world without any explicit action at all.
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
>>>Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars, the great depression and
>>>countless other smaller wars fine
>>
>>Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
>> Not to mention
>>all the INNOCENT victims wiped out by our so-called righteous battles?
>>Our nation has terrorized many other nations for many years now...and
>>gotten away with it, so far. This time around, it won't work.
Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd be
living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as
you do now?
>>Nope. Capitalism has diligently wiped out all those safeguards put in
>>place by FDR.
Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.
Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they
provide.
You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.
And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't
grow anything.
Relayer
I lost my ass 4 years ago when I became ill..
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
wrote:
>On Sep 16, 6:28=EF=BF=BDpm, n...@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wro=
>te:
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:57:58 -0700, lisa...@privacy.net wrote:
>> >>>Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars, the great=
> depression and
>> >>>countless other smaller wars fine
>>
>> >>Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
>>
>> Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
>>
>> >> Not to mention
>> >>all the INNOCENT victims wiped out by our so-called righteous battles?
>> >>Our nation has terrorized many other nations for many years now...and
>> >>gotten away with it, so far. This time around, it won't work.
>>
>> Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd be
>> living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
>>
>> Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as
>> you do now?
>>
>> >>Nope. Capitalism has diligently wiped out all those safeguards put in
>> >>place by FDR.
>>
>> Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.
>>
>> Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they
>> provide.
>>
>> You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.
>>
>> And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't
>> grow anything.
>
>I lost my ass 4 years ago when I became ill..
And any civilized society has an absolute duty to help the disabled.
But when we become commies, we must also give to able-bodied, healthy
people, especially those men and women who are kind enough to make
babies without working to support them.
William Souden
>
h
> However, a mushrooming population does improve the standard of living
> *while it lasts* because a youth-skewed population is more able-bodied.
> That, and the fact that nothing is more central to evolution than the
> biological imperative to reproduce, means it's an addiction that will be
> very hard to break.
Shrug. I can understand the biological imperative to have sex, but I just
don't get the desire to reproduce. I've never liked children, not even when
I was a child, so there was no way I would want to have one. The more
intelligent and well-educated people are, the less likely they are to
reproduce. Human intelligence is self-limiting because stupid people do most
of the breeding. It's always been that way and there's no indication that it
will change any time soon.
Rod Speed
Thats PER BANK. Completely trivial to just spread your deposits
over multiple banks so none of them have more than that each.
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Only the dregs of the severely disabled end up entirely dependant on social security.
Nonsense. The majority of folks totally dependant on soc. sec. are not
dregs. They are decent people who suffer the misfortune of a
malicious, violent society.
>> You sound like Der Fuhrer.
>
>He gassed them, fool.
But first, he labelled all the handicapped "dregs" in order to justify
to himself and German citizens, the Final Solution. So yeah, you sound
very much like a Nazi...or at best, a "good German".
>Everyone dies sometime.
What kind of rationale is that? It certainly doesn't justify or excuse
slaughtering the diabled or any other innocent person scapegoated by
the ignorant masses.
>Corse it will, just like it did during the great depression and those world wars, you watch.
The United States is a terrorist nation, just like Germany had become.
And, just like Germany, needs to be stopped dead in its tracks and
divided. Amerika has started most of its wars, most unnecessary. The
Great Depression was a direct result of the barbarian ideology of hard
core capitalists, who run this gov't. War IS a racket.
>They werent put in place by FDR, they were put in place by Congress.
Under the watch of FDR. Duh.
>And we wouldnt have seen the bailout of Bear Stearns, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac if your lie was true.
The gov't is bailing out big business, capitalist monsters...NOT the
people themselves. That's why we don't have universal health care,
living wage, etc., like civilized nations do.
>> It will be far more disastrous, and most likely unrecoverable.
>
>Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys, you watch.
Drug crazed? Pig ignorant? Is that your simplistic conclusion about
those who express compassion? News flash: "Patriotism is the last
refuge of a scoundrel."
>And we have invented the technology that allows us to yawn about that, nukes.
We are losing all the good things our technology has created. We've
dumbed down students by wrecking public education...we've been ripped
off and wrecked by our own leaders and corporations. You're an
absolute fool, to defend these antiAmerikan goons. We are going to
drown in our own greed, ignorance, and false patriotism. Our own
unbridled arrogance has finally dismantled and eradicated whatever
worthy accomplishments we've achieved. Amerika is now a totalitarian,
fascist society.
You're like an old Russian who stood up for the USSR even under
Stalin, despite all the evidence against.
>Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
And what if a fire burns away all your moolah? Or you're burglarized?
No matter, it's just ink on paper...soon to become totally worthless.
Do you REALLY keep cash under your bed? Invite me over for tea some
time...and I'll leave that much richer for the visit! :)
>Wrong, as always. You can keep it in FDIC guaranteed accounts if you want to, fool.
I admire your undaunting faith in such a corrupt gov't...as foolish as
that may be. I guess that old saying really IS true:
"Ignorance is bliss."
Chief Thracian
Ayres) wrote:
>>>Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
>
>Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
Wars that are not necessary.
>Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd be
>living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if we didn't have
so much business selling Nazis war material. But WWII was planned by
our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
>Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as
>you do now?
Well, since we helped to creat that war, I'd say our leaders already
WERE Nazis,,,,and our supposed freedoms were simply illusions all
along. Now, EVERYONE is going to discover this neat little factoid. We
do NOT have freedom of speech in Amerika...only a pale facsimile to
delude us.
>Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.
No, we can have a different FORM of capitalism, is all. One that
respects and HONORS democracy. What we have now is terrorist
capitalism, a form of fascism. If you think compassionate programs
like universal health care is socialism or communism, you are
brainwashed.
>Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they
>provide.
Nope. Just close all the tax loopholes, so we can easily afford living
wages, health care, housing for the poor, etc. Corporation profits are
on the backs of workers, who made them rich. You say we don't deserve
a healthy share of these profits? How unAmerikan of you!
>You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.
That is soon where most of us will be, under the evil of our present
capitalists, who are raping our country. They are antiAmerikan, and
you are one of their brainwashed puppets.
>And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't
>grow anything.
Oh, good for you. Call true patriots communists. Aren't you the good
little Benedict Arnold!
Chief Thracian
wrote:
>Human population needs to drop down to a manageable 3-4 billion as soon as
>possible.
Right on! And the rest of what you said, so well wirt!
John Que Public
news:48d0b20e...@amsterdam.newsgroups-download.com...
Hell yes! Jack the taxes through the roof on those evil corporations.
Of course they will simply pass on the corporate taxes by raising the
prices of the products they manufacture or sell and the consumer will
pay the taxes.
FYI: All taxes are paid by the little guys so any tax increase to any
group falls on the backs of consumers.
The auto industry is a prime example of tax and government program
cost increase being passed on to the consumer. In 1974 a new ford 1/2
ton van cost around $4000.00 Thanks to government programs and taxes
the new smaller version cost over $35,000.00 the stripped down 1/2 ton
full sized version is now over $50,000.00. Who do you think is paying
for the higher taxes and government regulated features we have today?
When government involves itself in the taxation, production or
operation of any business the consumer is the one that pays the added
cost.
J.Q.P.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Only the dregs of the severely disabled end up entirely dependant on social security.
> Nonsense.
Fact.
> The majority of folks totally dependant on soc. sec. are not dregs.
Corse they are.
> They are decent people who suffer the misfortune of a malicious, violent society.
They were too stupid to make their own provision for that rare situation.
>>> You sound like Der Fuhrer.
>> He gassed them, fool.
> But first, he labelled all the handicapped "dregs" in order
> to justify to himself and German citizens, the Final Solution.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
He had them gassed out of the view of the absolute vast bulk of the krauts.
>>> What about the incalculable suffering
>> Pure fantasy.
>>> and deaths?
>> Everyone dies sometime.
> What kind of rationale is that?
Just rubbing your stupid drug crazed ignorance in the basics, as always.
> It certainly doesn't justify or excuse slaughtering the diabled
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> or any other innocent person scapegoated by the ignorant masses.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
>>> Not to mention all the INNOCENT victims wiped out by our so-called righteous battles?
>> Nothing to do with the guarantees being discussed.
>>> Our nation has terrorized many other nations for many years now...
>> Nothing to do with the guarantees being discussed.
>> You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
>>> and gotten away with it, so far. This time around, it won't work.
>> Corse it will, just like it did during the great depression and those world wars, you watch.
> The United States is a terrorist nation,
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> just like Germany had become.
You wouldnt know what a real terrorist was if one bit you on your lard arse.
> And, just like Germany, needs to be stopped dead in its tracks and divided.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> Amerika has started most of its wars, most unnecessary.
Didnt start the ones that mattered, fuckwit.
> The Great Depression was a direct result of the barbarian
> ideology of hard core capitalists, who run this gov't.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> War IS a racket.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
>>> Capitalism has diligently wiped out all those safeguards put in place by FDR.
>> They werent put in place by FDR, they were put in place by Congress.
> Under the watch of FDR.
No such animal.
>> And we wouldnt have seen the bailout of Bear Stearns, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac if your lie was true.
> The gov't is bailing out big business, capitalist monsters...
To avoid a full depression, fuckwit.
> NOT the people themselves.
Wrong, as always. Its those that benefit if there is no depression, fuckwit.
> That's why we don't have universal health care, living wage, etc., like civilized nations do.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
>>> It will be far more disastrous, and most likely unrecoverable.
>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys, you watch.
> Drug crazed? Pig ignorant?
Yep.
> Is that your simplistic conclusion about those who express compassion?
Nope, just about stupid drug crazed pig ignorant clowns like you.
> News flash: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
You wouldnt know what real patriotism was if it bit you on your lard arse, child.
>>> 3 billion MORE people are in the capitalist game now ("Chindia"), grabbing
>>> as much and as fast as they can, limited resources of oil and gas.
>> And we have invented the technology that allows us to yawn about that, nukes.
> We are losing all the good things our technology has created.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> We've dumbed down students by wrecking public education...
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> we've been ripped off and wrecked by our own leaders and corporations.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> You're an absolute fool, to defend these antiAmerikan goons.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.
> We are going to drown in our own greed, ignorance, and false patriotism.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> Our own unbridled arrogance has finally dismantled and
> eradicated whatever worthy accomplishments we've achieved.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> Amerika is now a totalitarian,fascist society.
You wouldnt know what real totalitarianism or fascism was if it bit you on your lard arse, child.
> You're like an old Russian who stood up for the USSR even under Stalin, despite all the evidence against.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
>>>>> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.
>>>> Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
>>> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus
>> Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
> And what if a fire burns away all your moolah?
Anyone with a clue puts it in a fire proof safe, fuckwit.
> Or you're burglarized?
Anyone with a clue puts it where it cant be, fuckwit.
> No matter, it's just ink on paper...soon to become totally worthless.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> Do you REALLY keep cash under your bed?
Nope. Just rubbing your stupid pig ignorant drug crazed nose in the FACT that it aint VOLATILE, fuckwit.
> Invite me over for tea some time...
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> and I'll leave that much richer for the visit! :)
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
>>> There is NO safe haven when it comes to gambling...er, I mean investing.
>> Wrong, as always. You can keep it in FDIC guaranteed accounts if you want to, fool.
> I admire your undaunting faith in such a corrupt gov't...
Its undaunted, fuckwit.
> as foolish as that may be. I guess that old saying really IS true:
> "Ignorance is bliss."
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
Thracian) wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:28:58 GMT, n...@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill
>Ayres) wrote:
>
>>>>Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
>>
>>Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
>
>Wars that are not necessary.
Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
>>Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd be
>>living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
>
>WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if we didn't have
>so much business selling Nazis war material. But WWII was planned by
>our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
Are you Neville Chamberlain's great grandson?
>>Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as
>>you do now?
>
>Well, since we helped to creat that war, I'd say our leaders already
>WERE Nazis,,,,and our supposed freedoms were simply illusions all
>along. Now, EVERYONE is going to discover this neat little factoid. We
>do NOT have freedom of speech in Amerika...only a pale facsimile to
>delude us.
You're running your mouth pretty good.
Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
Korea, or Vietnam.
Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
Sharia law.
Or if you'd prefer a simple lifestyle, sub-Saharan Africa beckons.
The folks are real down-to-earth there.
>>Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.
>
>No, we can have a different FORM of capitalism, is all. One that
>respects and HONORS democracy. What we have now is terrorist
>capitalism, a form of fascism. If you think compassionate programs
>like universal health care is socialism or communism, you are
>brainwashed.
I've heard of the wonders of national health from my friends in UK.
They get to pull their own teeth, wait a mere 6 months to get MRIs, 2
years to see a psychiatrist .... rejection of obese patients ...
delaying necessary treatment for cancer patients .... It seems that
they are starting to travel to the US for treatment. And in
Canuckistan, ladies are crossing the border to have their babies
delivered. So if universal health care is in our future, I hope that
it is well thought out. All aspects of it.
>>Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they
>>provide.
>
>Nope. Just close all the tax loopholes, so we can easily afford living
>wages, health care, housing for the poor, etc. Corporation profits are
>on the backs of workers, who made them rich. You say we don't deserve
>a healthy share of these profits? How unAmerikan of you!
Lovely platitudes.
Straight off the teleprompter.
Now, fill us in on the nuts-and-bolts details to accomplish what you
say.
And when you have formulated your socioeconomic and tax strategies, be
sure to pass a copy to Barry Obama.
>>You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.
>
>That is soon where most of us will be, under the evil of our present
>capitalists, who are raping our country. They are antiAmerikan, and
>you are one of their brainwashed puppets.
Senor Fidel welcomes you with open arms, comrade.
Now don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.
>>And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't
>>grow anything.
>
>Oh, good for you. Call true patriots communists. Aren't you the good
>little Benedict Arnold!
Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability n...@home.org
>(Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:
>
>>Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
>>has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
>>
>>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
>
>
>Go tell your crusaders first, they made up the lie.
You've been reading al jazeera.
At any rate, the crusaders are all dead now.
But your heroes are still terrorizing.
Rod Speed
> n...@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote
>>>> Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
>> Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
> Wars that are not necessary.
Yes, you are always welcome to hand out flowers to invaders, and die.
>> Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd
>> be living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if
> we didn't have so much business selling Nazis war material.
The US was completely irrelevant to WW2 until Pearl Harbour, you ignorant clown.
> But WWII was planned by our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
Is that right ? How odd that the rich fella in charge couldnt even go to war until after Pearl Harbour.
Corse he paid those unspeakable Japs to do Pearl Harbour too, eh ?
And the Philippines eh ?
>> Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as you do now?
> Well, since we helped to creat that war, I'd say our leaders already WERE Nazis,,,,
You wouldnt know what a real Nazi was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.
> and our supposed freedoms were simply illusions all along.
So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have your executed eh ?
Great.
> Now, EVERYONE is going to discover this neat little factoid. We do NOT
> have freedom of speech in Amerika...only a pale facsimile to delude us.
So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have your executed eh ?
Great.
>> Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.
> No, we can have a different FORM of capitalism, is all. One that
> respects and HONORS democracy. What we have now is terrorist
> capitalism, a form of fascism. If you think compassionate programs
> like universal health care is socialism or communism, you are brainwashed.
>> Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they provide.
> Nope. Just close all the tax loopholes, so we can easily
> afford living wages, health care, housing for the poor, etc.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
> Corporation profits are on the backs of workers, who made them rich. You say
> we don't deserve a healthy share of these profits? How unAmerikan of you!
>> You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.
> That is soon where most of us will be, under the evil
> of our present capitalists, who are raping our country.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
> They are antiAmerikan, and you are one of their brainwashed puppets.
Bet that will see him curl up and die for sure, child.
>> And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't grow anything.
> Oh, good for you. Call true patriots communists. Aren't you the good little Benedict Arnold!
Bet that will see him curl up and die for sure, child.
Rod Speed
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:39:22 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
> chief_t...@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian) wrote:
>
>>
>> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if we didn't have
>> so much business selling Nazis war material. But WWII was planned by
>> our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
>>
>
>
> rich richer, the common person gained nothing by breaking from
> England. And when they said all "men" are created equal they really
> did mean men but they only meant themselves as in the ones who
> drafted it. Only men who owned property could vote and only white
> men could own property.
That last is a pig ignorant lie.
Gerald Abrahamson
Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:
>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
You mean you don't have a direct line to God/GWB/McCain to
advise them of this Christian "fact"? Why would they cut you
out? Hmmm, they must have a reason....
>You're running your mouth pretty good.
Yours is running non-stop. But your babbling is nonsense.
>Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
>Korea, or Vietnam.
You like being told what to believe--then you don't have to
think. That is exactly what they do in those countries. Just
like you believe GWB, Rove, Cheney, McCain, Palin, etc. So,
why are you in the US? You lack the intellectual capability
of making informed choices. Proof of my claim is made very
simply. Have you found those WMDs in Iraq yet? If not, why
not? Or hasn't Mattel come out with the "Barbie I.E.D.
Finder and Defuser" yet?
>Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
>a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
>Sharia law.
>
>Or if you'd prefer a simple lifestyle, sub-Saharan Africa beckons.
>The folks are real down-to-earth there.
"Not at home" accurately describes your mental state. It
also describes your physical location. I would dispute the
.org category though. More along the lines of .DISorg....
Then again, .nothought would be most appropriate.
You would fit right into the above locations as your
permanent residence.
> It seems that they are starting to travel to the US for treatment.
Actually, the UK and other health services have been sending
some of their patients to Asia for treatment. The US is
doing the same. The insurance companies LOVE it--as do the
patients going overseas for treatment. First-class medical
treatment (by US-trained doctors) at a relatively low price.
Expect foreign medical care to become mandatory over the
years in order to protect the profit margins of the
insurance companies you so love.
>And in Canuckistan, ladies are crossing the border to have their babies
>delivered.
Because they are having a "baby boom" in Canada, their
delivery rooms are filled beyond capacity. Thus, their
over-capacity is sent to the US. It won't last.
>So if universal health care is in our future, I hope that
>it is well thought out. All aspects of it.
ROFLMAO !!
Canadians held a vote about who was the most famous/
respected Canadian. It was the person who created the
Canadian SP/UHC medical healthcare system--or, as it is
called: Medicare for all.
And don't forget your passport--a requirement to get your
medical treatment overseas paid by a US insurance company.
So, refute the following article:
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/76032/10_myths_about_canadian_health_care,_busted/
>Lovely platitudes.
>
>Straight off the teleprompter.
>
>Now, fill us in on the nuts-and-bolts details to accomplish what you
>say.
We have all seen your platitudes roll off the McCain tele-
prompter--none of which contain all the facts.
>And when you have formulated your socioeconomic and tax strategies, be
>sure to pass a copy to Barry Obama.
McCain has lived his entire life under SP/UHC--which you
have known all along. So, tell us (again) how and why he
opposes it since it was so great for him. Or doesn't he want
all Americans to have the good quality healthcare he
received? How UN-American of McCain--NOT the stuff of which
heroes are made.
All Republican't Neocan'ts (you, McCain, Palin, GWB, OR
Cheney) *still* haven't told us how Bush/McCain is going to
pay off the multi-trillion-dollar debts they have run up.
Nor have you told us how they are going to "save" the US
economy from more Bushonomics/Reaganomics/McCainonomics.
Knocking off the #3, #4, AND #5 major banks in the US isn't
enough. They also got the #1 insurance company (AIG). Now
the govt owns 79.9% of AIG. Maybe you need to get a real
job--or do you need to be sent to Iraq to "fight the war
over there"? GWB will take almost anyone at this point.
>Now don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.
You should not be butting doors.... Your ability to think
will be reduced below zero....
>Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
Dear Commie....
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Anyone with a clue puts it in a fire proof safe, fuckwit.
You said cash under the bed, Changing your tune now, are you?
You're not particularly intelligent...that fact virtually screams at
anyone who reads your silly rants.
You're obviously a very disturbed and angry little loser. Typical ugly
Amerikan. You should leave.
Chief Thracian
wrote:
>Just like the revolutionary war was planned by the rich to make the rich richer,
>the common person gained nothing by breaking from England. And when they said
>all "men" are created equal they really did mean men but they only meant
>themselves as in the ones who drafted it. Only men who owned property could
>vote and only white men could own property.
You're a breath of fresh air amid all the ignorant foul goons farting
their lies in every direction.
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>That last is a pig ignorant lie.
Oh, you really put him in HIS place now, didn't you?
You couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag.
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
Queen Nancy's going to investigate the
Actually, the Clintonistas laid the seeds for the current financial
mess. "Let 'em all have mortgages." And the Clintonistas like
Gorelick made out like bandits. Gubmint intervention. Further, the
idjits who ran Freddie and Fannie are now Barry's advisors.
As for NHS, if you ever need a leg amputated, make sure you have a
note tied to your good leg with directions: "Remove other leg."
And then:
The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.
BY TAWFIK HAMID
Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT
Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published
a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went
Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a
vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics
protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things
have been, or could be, right.
But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic
world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang
from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of
Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other
daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the
ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic
establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily,
the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come,
actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.
These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root
causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation
of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite
different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya,
a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know
firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can
transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without
confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be
impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets"
of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam,
a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.
It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic
teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows
apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them,
seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies
declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the
Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the
Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough
that there is something fundamentally wrong.
The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack
of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that
clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism,
more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not
provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel
proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20
years I have been developing and working to establish a
theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.
Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western
intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have
become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among
Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity.
They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism
such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of
Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when
Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if
the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder
why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances
refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of
terror.
Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that
Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This
analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder
of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last
few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or
the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything
to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and
opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural
relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live
under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot
vote, drive cars and dress as they please.
The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to
self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans
demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate
against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them.
Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish
citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But
once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror
attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message
to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.
Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the
problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the
Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few
violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish
magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The
apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.
Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners.
It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal
identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to
morally support America's enemies.
Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an
antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and
practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that
Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take
for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we
experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.
Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been
fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim
organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce
violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims
who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be
considered "moderates."
All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When
Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually
endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of
suppressing their voices.
Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of
relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the
reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue
to face us.
Chief Thracian
<jqu...@nullport.ca> wrote:
>Hell yes! Jack the taxes through the roof on those evil corporations.
>Of course they will simply pass on the corporate taxes by raising the
>prices of the products they manufacture or sell and the consumer will
>pay the taxes.
That's one of the loopholes that needs to be closed. Taxes based on
profits, not expenses. Limit the profits to something reasonable,
which will also limit how much customers will be charged.
>FYI: All taxes are paid by the little guys so any tax increase to any
>group falls on the backs of consumers.
Wrong....the main problem is the warped disttribution of wealth.
Workers make corporations rich...yet very liftle of the resulting
assets are shared with workers. Brainwash employees to think that is a
communistic approach, and you have them fighting against their own
well being...against living wages and universal health care.
>The auto industry is a prime example of tax and government program
>cost increase being passed on to the consumer. In 1974 a new ford 1/2
>ton van cost around $4000.00
I don't care WHAT rationale you use to justify criminal capitalism,
'cause we already have successful economies in the rest of the
advanced nations that do exactly as I've suggested needs be done here.
>When government involves itself in the taxation, production or
>operation of any business the consumer is the one that pays the added
>cost.
And by the same token, government can be altered to protect its
citizens from stealth capitalism that destroys communities, pushes
people onto the streets, denies decent health care, and steals our
hopes for a better world. Government is anything the people want it to
be.
Chief Thracian
Ayres) wrote:
>Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
>has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
And the USA hasn't been helping any, either.
>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
We need to start addressing the evils right here at home, too. Plenty
of terrorism, violence,, religious fanaticism going on here, too.
Plenty of poverty, homelessness, homophobia, racism, misogeny, etc.
This nation's an unholy mess.
>Are you Neville Chamberlain's great grandson?
There is no denying the US businesses invested heavily in the Nazi
empire, which fostered the last great war. That fact does not make
anyone a Neville Chamberlain, simply for stating it.
>Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
>Korea, or Vietnam.
Of course not. My claim is the US is barely any better, these days.
We've become a fascist empire. How convenient of you to NOT cite those
nations in which I WOULD find life more enjoyable, because democratic
ideals are better practiced there:
Holland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, France, Canada, New Zealand,
Australia, and most of the remaining western-civilized nations.
>Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
>a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
>Sharia law.
I'm a gay male. Gays are treated even worse than women are, in Islam.
But gays are not much better off here in the US. We gays are
terrorized 24/7/365 here in the so-called free world of Amerika.
> I've heard of the wonders of national health from my friends in UK.
>They get to pull their own teeth, wait a mere 6 months to get MRIs, 2
>years to see a psychiatrist .... rejection of obese patients ...
>delaying necessary treatment for cancer patients ....
You pick the worst example of health care in western europe. How
convenient of you. And Canada has been sabotaged by the overrunning of
US for-profit health services, which should never have been allowed.
France, Spain, Holland, Scandanavia and various other western nations
are far superior w/health care than the US/England/Canada.
>Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
Go ahead, be as ignorant as you want, you're a brainwashed dolt. So
anything that is a compassionate plan is "communistic". Good show!
YOU'RE kind of democracy is indistinguishable from a Nazi regime.
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The US was completely irrelevant to WW2 until Pearl Harbour, you ignorant clown.
FDR knew about Japan's plan to bomb Peral Harbour, but kept silent. He
could have stopped them before they could ever bomb. He let war
happen, as it would profit Amerikan corporations.
>You wouldnt know what a real Nazi was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.
My, what an intelligent debater you are. THAT certainly put me in my
place. May I bow down to your greater wisdom? I am SO impressed!
>So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have your executed eh ?
They would if they could. And they're trying as much as they can to
execute ALL good patriots who denounce our corrupt government. YOU
would, that's certain.
>Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
Wow, again I am stunned by your brilliant parry. SUCH a debater you
are! Serves me right for thinking I could win an argument with the
brilliant like of you!
I can't imagine you holding down any kind of job, except one.
A BLOW job.
Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres
Thracian) wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, n...@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill
>Ayres) wrote:
>
>>Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
>>has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
>
>And the USA hasn't been helping any, either.
Russian school children ... British subway riders .... Spanish subway
riders .... Scottish airlines ... Buddhists ... Hindus ... atheists
... agnostics.
Yessah, your Muslim heroes provide equal opportunity.
>>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
>
>We need to start addressing the evils right here at home, too. Plenty
>of terrorism, violence,, religious fanaticism going on here, too.
>Plenty of poverty, homelessness, homophobia, racism, misogeny, etc.
>This nation's an unholy mess.
Actually, the only institutional racism today is directed against
whites in the form of govt.-sponsored preferential treatment for
non-whites.
And the SCOTUS decision in Grutter v. Bollinger keeps that cancer
alive although to a lesser degree than had been the case before the
simultaneous Gratz decision, both of which were rendered 6/2003.
>>Are you Neville Chamberlain's great grandson?
>
>There is no denying the US businesses invested heavily in the Nazi
>empire, which fostered the last great war. That fact does not make
>anyone a Neville Chamberlain, simply for stating it.
Yesterday's friends are today's enemies ... and vice versa. Stuff
changes. We supported Saddam when we believed that Iran was more
evil. Japanese have been good buddies since, 1945, and so on ....
>>Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
>>Korea, or Vietnam.
>
>Of course not. My claim is the US is barely any better, these days.
>We've become a fascist empire. How convenient of you to NOT cite those
>nations in which I WOULD find life more enjoyable, because democratic
>ideals are better practiced there:
>
>Holland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, France, Canada, New Zealand,
>Australia, and most of the remaining western-civilized nations.
Canada and the Euro countries are excellent choices for devoted
socialists.
When are you leaving?
>>Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
>>a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
>>Sharia law.
>
>I'm a gay male. Gays are treated even worse than women are, in Islam.
>But gays are not much better off here in the US. We gays are
>terrorized 24/7/365 here in the so-called free world of Amerika.
Really? Aren't you part of the "protected" minority class too?
The institutional bias I have seen has been directed at straight,
white, non-Hispanic, non-Islamic males.
Tell us how society has terrorized you ... not talking about
individuals but society as a whole.
And did this bias exist before the AIDS epidemic?
CDC: 1 million living with HIV in U.S.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/06/13/hiv.cases.ap/index.html
(...)
The CDC's latest estimates indicate blacks account for 47 percent of
HIV
cases; gay and bisexual men make up 45 percent of those living with
the
virus that causes AIDS, the health agency believes.
In 2003, the rates of AIDS cases were 58 per 100,000 in the black
population, 10 per 100,000 Hispanics, 6 per 100,000 whites, 8 per
100,000
American Indian/Alaska native population, and 4 per 100,000
Asian/Pacific
Islanders.
(...)
>> I've heard of the wonders of national health from my friends in UK.
>>They get to pull their own teeth, wait a mere 6 months to get MRIs, 2
>>years to see a psychiatrist .... rejection of obese patients ...
>>delaying necessary treatment for cancer patients ....
>
>You pick the worst example of health care in western europe. How
>convenient of you. And Canada has been sabotaged by the overrunning of
>US for-profit health services, which should never have been allowed.
>France, Spain, Holland, Scandanavia and various other western nations
>are far superior w/health care than the US/England/Canada.
Hey, I know that there's a health care crisis here, but before we
plunge into socialized medicine, we had better do detailed analysis
and learn from the pitfalls of other nations so as not to repeat them.
>>Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
>
>Go ahead, be as ignorant as you want, you're a brainwashed dolt. So
>anything that is a compassionate plan is "communistic". Good show!
>YOU'RE kind of democracy is indistinguishable from a Nazi regime.
Actually, the brainwashing has been done by the leftist MSM of the
past 50 years.
JR Weiss
>
>> There really are no guarantees.
>
>> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank failures, your
>> deposits aren't guaranteed against inflation, nor devaluation of the dollar.
>
> They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.
Oh great financial guru, pray tell ALL of us how to "organise them properly" to
secure guarantees against both inflation and devaluation!
Of course, as always, we'll understand completely if you can't back up your
claims with even a single fact. We're used to that...
William Souden
His idea of facts are to whine "bullshit", and "irrelevant" or to go
into his paper bag or flushing bots.
Funny to see a lifetime welfare recipient claim that those
depending on Social Security are the dregs of society.
>
>
Rod Speed
>>>>>>> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.
>>>>>> Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
>>>>> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus
>>>> Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
>>> And what if a fire burns away all your moolah?
>> Anyone with a clue puts it in a fire proof safe, fuckwit.
> You said cash under the bed, Changing your tune now, are you?
Nope, you put the fireproof safe under the bed, fuckwit.
<reams of your juvenile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>
Rod Speed
> John Que Public <jqu...@nullport.ca> wrote
>> Hell yes! Jack the taxes through the roof on those evil corporations.
>> Of course they will simply pass on the corporate taxes by raising the
>> prices of the products they manufacture or sell and the consumer will
>> pay the taxes.
> That's one of the loopholes that needs to be closed.
Not even possible.
> Taxes based on profits, not expenses.
Expenses have to be a tax deduction, otherwise low margin operations
end up getting crushed out of existence by taxation, fool.
> Limit the profits to something reasonable,
Which is what the current system does, fool.
> which will also limit how much customers will be charged.
Wrong, as always. Its always worth making more profit and paying the tax on the profit.
>> FYI: All taxes are paid by the little guys so any tax
>> increase to any group falls on the backs of consumers.
> Wrong....
Nope, fact.
> the main problem is the warped disttribution of wealth.
And any country that is stupid enough to try taxing the wealth of the wealthy away
just sees the wealthy leave the country and take the jobs they produce with them.
> Workers make corporations rich...
Wrong, as always. The stinking rich in modern first world countrys get that way by
doing what Gates, Buffet, Brim etc did, and thats got nothing to do with 'workers'
> yet very liftle of the resulting assets are shared with workers.
Another bare faced pig ignorant lie. Have a look at how many millionaires Microsoft produced sometime.
> Brainwash employees to think that is a communistic
> approach, and you have them fighting against their own
> well being...against living wages and universal health care.
Like happened with GM and Ford etc, right ?
>> The auto industry is a prime example of tax and government program
>> cost increase being passed on to the consumer. In 1974 a new ford 1/2
>> ton van cost around $4000.00
> I don't care WHAT rationale you use to justify criminal capitalism,
> 'cause we already have successful economies in the rest of the
> advanced nations that do exactly as I've suggested needs be done here.
Then you had better set fire to yourself in 'protest' or something, child.
>> When government involves itself in the taxation, production or operation
>> of any business the consumer is the one that pays the added cost.
> And by the same token, government can be altered to protect its
> citizens from stealth capitalism that destroys communities, pushes
> people onto the streets, denies decent health care, and steals our
> hopes for a better world. Government is anything the people want it to be.
And most of them are too stupid to even vote for a universal national health care system.
William Souden
When was it ever on the ballot?
Be glad you have in Australia,welfare boy, otherwise you would be
living on a cardboard box.
Come one,little man, give me the flushing bot.
>
>
Rod Speed
>> Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens,
>> the world has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
> And the USA hasn't been helping any, either.
Another pig ignorant lie. The US did attempt to stay out of WW2 and let the
stupid europeans rip their throats out yet again. Then the Japs were stupid
enough to do Pearl Harbour and they decided that that couldnt be ignored.
>> Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who
>> are on a global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
> We need to start addressing the evils right here at home, too.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest', child.
> Plenty of terrorism, violence,, religious fanaticism going on here, too.
There is right thruout the entire world, child.
> Plenty of poverty, homelessness, homophobia, racism, misogeny, etc.
> This nation's an unholy mess.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest', child.
>>> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if we didn't
>>> have so much business selling Nazis war material. But WWII was
>>> planned by our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
>> Are you Neville Chamberlain's great grandson?
> There is no denying the US businesses invested heavily
> in the Nazi empire, which fostered the last great war.
They invested in germany LONG before the nazis showed up, child.
> That fact does not make anyone a Neville Chamberlain, simply for stating it.
That wasnt the reason he said that, child.
>> Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North Korea, or Vietnam.
> Of course not. My claim is the US is barely any better, these days.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest', child.
> We've become a fascist empire.
You wouldnt know what a real fascist was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.
> How convenient of you to NOT cite those nations in which I WOULD find
> life more enjoyable, because democratic ideals are better practiced there:
> Holland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, France, Canada, New Zealand,
> Australia, and most of the remaining western-civilized nations.
You're always welcome to fuck off to any of those that will have you, child.
Bet none of them are actually that stupid.
>> Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries.
>> If you're a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint
>> traditions of Sharia law.
> I'm a gay male.
Your problem.
> Gays are treated even worse than women are, in Islam.
Your problem.
> But gays are not much better off here in the US.
Your problem.
> We gays are terrorized 24/7/365 here in the so-called free world of Amerika.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest', child.
>> I've heard of the wonders of national health from my friends in UK.
>> They get to pull their own teeth, wait a mere 6 months to get MRIs,
>> 2 years to see a psychiatrist .... rejection of obese patients ...
>> delaying necessary treatment for cancer patients ....
> You pick the worst example of health care in western europe.
And lied about how it works too.
> How convenient of you. And Canada has been sabotaged by the overrunning
> of US for-profit health services, which should never have been allowed.
> France, Spain, Holland, Scandanavia and various other western nations
> are far superior w/health care than the US/England/Canada.
You're always welcome to set fire to yourself in 'protest', child.
>> Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
> Go ahead, be as ignorant as you want, you're a brainwashed dolt. So
> anything that is a compassionate plan is "communistic". Good show!
> YOU'RE kind of democracy is indistinguishable from a Nazi regime.
Havent noticed any concentration camps or millions of jews being gassed and cremated, child.
Rod Speed
>>>>>> Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?
>>>> Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.
>>> Wars that are not necessary.
>> Yes, you are always welcome to hand out flowers to invaders, and die.
>>>> Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd
>>>> be living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.
>>> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if
>>> we didn't have so much business selling Nazis war material.
>> The US was completely irrelevant to WW2 until Pearl Harbour, you ignorant clown.
> FDR knew about Japan's plan to bomb Peral Harbour, but kept silent.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> He could have stopped them before they could ever bomb.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> He let war happen, as it would profit Amerikan corporations.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
>>>> Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as you do now?
>>> Well, since we helped to creat that war, I'd say our leaders already WERE Nazis,,,,
>> You wouldnt know what a real Nazi was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.
>>> and our supposed freedoms were simply illusions all along.
>> So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have you executed eh ?
> They would if they could.
But you have them fooled with that pathetic excuse for a nick eh ?
> And they're trying as much as they can to execute ALL good patriots who denounce our corrupt government.
How odd that they havent managed to find you, child.
They dont even have the draft anymore, child.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> There really are no guarantees.
>> Yes there are. . .
>>> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank
>>> failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against inflation, nor
>>> devaluation of the dollar.
>> They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.
> Oh great financial guru, pray tell ALL of us how to "organise them
> properly" to secure guarantees against both inflation and devaluation!
Completely trivial to organise them so that inflation wont affect
them just by having them where they do better than inflation.
The devaluation of the dollar is completely irrelevant when the bulk
of what you buy comes from within the country or from that other
country that chooses to have its currency loosely linked to the USD.
And if say you are planning to spend much of it outside the country, its
completely trivial to have it in a currency that you believe will do better
than the USD too, or the currency of the country you plan to spend it in etc.
<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>
Don Klipstein
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:41:14 +1000, "Rod Speed"
><rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyone with a clue puts it in a fire proof safe, fuckwit.
>
>You said cash under the bed, Changing your tune now, are you?
>
>You're not particularly intelligent...that fact virtually screams at
>anyone who reads your silly rants.
>
>You're obviously a very disturbed and angry little loser. Typical ugly
>Amerikan. You should leave.
The subtroll is in Australia. People who like to irritate other people
so much may not live too long in America, where half the people have guns.
There is even a FAQ on him.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
William Souden
Off your meds again,welfare boy?
William Souden
Rod, we have lives,jobs,money and friends.
Rod Speed
Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that they dont work thru the net.
> There is even a FAQ on him.
You're jealous.
William Souden
Why would anyone be jealous of a life long welfare recipient with n
friends, money or job skills who can only post juvenile bots whenever he
is asked to back up his claims?
JR Weiss
>
>>>> There really are no guarantees.
>
>>> Yes there are. . .
>
>>>> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank
>>>> failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against inflation, nor
>>>> devaluation of the dollar.
>
>>> They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.
>
>> Oh great financial guru, pray tell ALL of us how to "organise them
>> properly" to secure guarantees against both inflation and devaluation!
>
> Completely trivial to organise them so that inflation wont affect
> them just by having them where they do better than inflation.
Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your deposits into banks
that are GUARANTEED against bank failures, inflation, and devaluation. If
that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
> The devaluation of the dollar is completely irrelevant when the bulk
> of what you buy comes from within the country or from that other
> country that chooses to have its currency loosely linked to the USD.
You are now putting unreasonable and implausible new limitations on your
previous claims. There is no way to GUARANTEE the source of the goods a person
buys over several years, or even one year. There is no way to GUARANTEE that
any country will to continue to [not] peg their currency against the US dollar,
"loosely" or otherwise.
> And if say you are planning to spend much of it outside the country, its
> completely trivial to have it in a currency that you believe will do better
> than the USD too, or the currency of the country you plan to spend it in etc.
We are still looking for your claimed GUARANTEES. There is no tie between my
beliefs regarding any country's fiscal health and any GUARANTEE of such.
We still await your "Completely trivial" scheme to provide those GUARANTEES.
Again, we will understand when it fails to materialize...
Rod Speed
>>>>> There really are no guarantees.
>>>> Yes there are. . .
>>>>> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank
>>>>> failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against inflation, nor
>>>>> devaluation of the dollar.
>>>> They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.
>>> Oh great financial guru, pray tell ALL of us how to "organise them
>>> properly" to secure guarantees against both inflation and devaluation!
>> Completely trivial to organise them so that inflation wont affect
>> them just by having them where they do better than inflation.
> Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your deposits into banks that are GUARANTEED against bank
> failures, inflation, and devaluation.
Just told you how to do that.
> If that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
2 is all thats relevant for most.
>> The devaluation of the dollar is completely irrelevant when the bulk
>> of what you buy comes from within the country or from that other
>> country that chooses to have its currency loosely linked to the USD.
> You are now putting unreasonable and implausible new limitations on your previous claims.
You're lying now.
> There is no way to GUARANTEE the source of the goods a person buys over several years, or even one year.
Wrong again when that source is either the US or China.
> There is no way to GUARANTEE that any country will to continue to [not] peg their currency against the US dollar,
> "loosely" or otherwise.
Wrong, as always. China isnt stupid enough to stop doing that, you watch.
>> And if say you are planning to spend much of it outside the country, its completely trivial to have it in a currency
>> that you believe will do better than the USD too, or the currency of the country you plan to spend it in etc.
> We are still looking for your claimed GUARANTEES.
Just how many of you are there between those ears, WEISS ?
> There is no tie between my beliefs regarding any country's fiscal health and any GUARANTEE of such.
Never said a word about any country's fiscal health.
If you plan to spend much of what you retire with in a particular country,
even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out how to move
an appropriate percentage of what you retire with to that country so you
dont care what happens to the currency relativitys with that particular country.
> We still await your "Completely trivial" scheme to provide those GUARANTEES.
Just how many of you are there between those ears, WEISS ?
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Nope, you put the fireproof safe under the bed, fuckwit.
What kind of bed do YOU sleep on, that permits the height of a safe?
Oh, I get it: a CRIB. :)
><reams of your juvenile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>
And "Heil Hitler" to you, brownshirt!
Chief Thracian
Klipstein) wrote:
> The subtroll is in Australia.
My heart goes out to the Land of Oz. What a curse!
>There is even a FAQ on him.
Hey you're right Don! I just searched for it:
http://phorums.com.au/archive/index.php/t-42666.html
"Essentially, Rod Speed is an insecure and worthless individual who
has discovered he can enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by
playing "the big, hard man" on the InterNet."
Chief Thracian
<jrweiss98...@remove.comcast.net> wrote:
>Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your deposits into banks
>that are GUARANTEED against bank failures, inflation, and devaluation. If
>that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
His answer to ME in this same thread, was to keep my money under the
bed! What a wonk.
Rod Speed
> JR Weiss <jrweiss98...@remove.comcast.net> wrote
>> Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your deposits
>> into banks that are GUARANTEED against bank failures, inflation,
>> and devaluation. If that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
> His answer to ME in this same thread, was to keep my money under the bed!
Lying, as always.
JR Weiss
>
> Does the expression, "pissing into the wind" mean anything to you?
> You'll eventually discover, on your own, what most of us in the NG
> already know but here's a hint: Twit list is old Rod's natural habitat.
> I'm not even sure the RS entity is a human being instead of merely
> contentious (not argumentative) artificial unintelligence software.
I know all about rodless seedless...
Like you, apparently, I don't put him on my twit list because occasionally I
feel the need to protect others from his absolutely worthless BS.
_I_ know that his invective, innuendo, and other trash talk are simplistic
attempt to mask his lack of knowledge about ANYTHING. It's too bad, however,
that there may be a few people around here that may still actually believe
anything he types...
We've already seen here that his "trivial" investment schemes simply DO NOT
EXIST!
Rod Speed
> We've already seen here that his "trivial" investment schemes simply DO NOT EXIST!
Never said a word about investment schemes, you silly little pathological liar.
Chief Thracian
The evidence of my vericity is right here in this thread...and nothing
you can do will change that. 8th msg. from the top, where you say
"Cash under the bed isnt, fool.".
Message-ID: <6jao6fF...@mid.individual.net>
And if you really meant cash in a safe box, you have said that in the
first place, not under the bed. 'Cause a safe box can be kept in just
about any place...usually in a clost.
It's obvious you're brains are fried on meth, considering your choice
of handle, as well as your obnoxious behavior. Some day, you will
seriously regret your potty mouth, as ;you lay comatose in the ER.
Nicik Name
"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:09SdnTDZyry3f1LV...@earthlink.com...
> clams_casino wrote:
>> timeOday wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
>>> funds.
>
> It looks to me that the DJIA is just about where it was 7 1/2 years ago.
>>>
>>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here,
>>> eh?
>>>
>>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime
>>> soon.
>>
>>
>> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
>> pensions with stock market investments?
>
> No one is talking about that gem anymore.
>
> The main trouble with the SS trust fund is that the government has
> "borrowed" it to run other branches of government. In effect it is backed
> by treasury bonds.
There is NO Social Security Fund in the United States
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Chief Thracian <chief_t...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> JR Weiss <jrweiss98...@remove.comcast.net> wrote
>>>> Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your
>>>> deposits into banks that are GUARANTEED against bank failures,
>>>> inflation, and devaluation. If that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
>>> His answer to ME in this same thread, was to keep my money under the bed!
>> Lying, as always.
> The evidence of my vericity is right here in this thread...
Yep, that you're lying, as always.
> and nothing you can do will change that. 8th msg. from
>the top, where you say "Cash under the bed isnt, fool.".
> Message-ID: <6jao6fF...@mid.individual.net>
Pity about the context of that line, liar.
Here it is again
>>> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.
>> Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.
> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus.
Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
That is JUST saying that cash under the bed isnt HIGHLY VOLATILE, fool.
Nothing like the same thing as saying you should put your cash under the bed, liar.
> And if you really meant cash in a safe box, you
> have said that in the first place, not under the bed.
Doesnt matter where you put it within reason, its STILL not HIGHLY VOLATILE, liar.
Dennis
<orb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
>news:09SdnTDZyry3f1LV...@earthlink.com...
>> The main trouble with the SS trust fund is that the government has
>> "borrowed" it to run other branches of government. In effect it is backed
>> by treasury bonds.
>
>There is NO Social Security Fund in the United States
>
Don't be silly. There is a perfectly good filing cabinet in the SS
office that is stuffed to the brim with IOUs. Rock-solid, I tell you.
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus.
>
>Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
Right, keep believing that. Funny thing though, in the case of cash
under the bed, it is the most LITERALLY volatial than any other type
of savings...paper burns! Why lose sleep each and every night,
worrying about a fire?
>That is JUST saying that cash under the bed isnt HIGHLY VOLATILE, fool.
I repeat: paper burns. And, you are subject to burglary, once word is
out. Some people will soon be desperate enough to demand you hand over
the moolah at gunpoint...security safe or no. "The combination or
your life!"
>Nothing like the same thing as saying you should put your cash under the bed, liar.
What you said is what you said:
"Keep your money under the bed."
Better luck next time,
Verbose slime.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus.
>> Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
> Right, keep believing that.
I will thanks.
> Funny thing though, in the case of cash under the bed, it is the most
> LITERALLY volatial than any other type of savings...paper burns!
Not if you have enough of a clue to have fireproof safe under the bed, fool.
> Why lose sleep each and every night, worrying about a fire?
Dont need to with a fireproof safe, fool.
>> That is JUST saying that cash under the bed isnt HIGHLY VOLATILE, fool.
> I repeat: paper burns.
I repeat: anyone with a clue puts their money in a fireproof safe if they want to avoid highly volatile markets, fool.
> And, you are subject to burglary, once word is out.
No need for any word to get out, and if you are that paranoid,
you can always keep the cash in a bank vault instead if you want
to avoid highly volatile markets, fool.
> Some people will soon be desperate enough to demand you hand over
> the moolah at gunpoint...security safe or no. "The combination or your life!"
Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool.
William Souden
The FDIC does not cover safe deposit boxes nor do insurance policies
that the banks carry on their own.
>
>
Rod Speed
Never said they did.
William Souden
In your own words which you were kind enough to quote above:
>> "Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>> are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>>covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool."
As i noted neither FDIC nor a banks own insurance covers cash in a
safe deposit box.
>
>
Rod Speed
>>>>> Right, keep believing that.
>>>> I will thanks.
>>>>> I repeat: paper burns.
>> Never said they did.
That was talking about avoiding the consequences of BURGLARY, not the market.
> As i noted neither FDIC nor a banks own insurance covers cash in a safe deposit box.
Irrelevant when you use a safe deposit box to avoid BURGLARY, and
the banks insurance to cover BURGLARY while its in the safe deposit box.
William Souden
But that insurance does not cover cash.
Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people
were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept mine in a safe deposit
box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room ,roll a few
joints for the weekend and return the box.
>
>
Chief Thracian
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool.
But that's not what you claimed in your original statement. You just
said to keep the money under a bed. But when I questioned that, you
altered your words and said you meant a SAFE under a bed.
No, you didn't. You are a distrubed, angry little man. I guess I'd be
too, if my pecker was only 1 inch when hard, and I could never have
the boyfriend of my dreams.
You have my pity. Go get help. Like here:
alt.suicide.methods
That's your only hope.
Rod Speed
>>>>>>> Right, keep believing that.
>>>>>> I will thanks.
>>>>>>> I repeat: paper burns.
>>>> Never said they did.
It can do in some situations, like when you can prove that the cash was in there before the robbery.
> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept
> mine in a safe deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room ,roll a few joints for the weekend and
> return the box.
No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.
No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>> are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>> covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool.
> But that's not what you claimed in your original statement.
Irrelevant. I assumed that even someone as stupid as you would realise
that if you want to simultaneously avoid HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS
and BURGLARY AND FIRE, that a safe deposit box does that fine.
Obviously a stupid assumption on my part.
> You just said to keep the money under a bed.
I JUST said that that is ONE WAY TO AVOID HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS.
> But when I questioned that, you altered your words and said you meant a SAFE under a bed.
I assumed that even someone as stupid as you would realise that
if you want to simultaneously avoid HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS
and BURGLARY AND FIRE, that a fireproof safe does that.
Obviously a stupid assumption on my part.
<reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit your way out of your predicament flushed where they belong>
William Souden
>> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept
>> mine in a safe deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room ,roll a few joints for the weekend and
>> return the box.
>
> No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.
This from welfare bot who can barely spell and who who whines bots
whenever he is shown to be wrong.
>
> No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.
Yes, and cash is a safe deposit is not covered by FDIC or the banks
own insurance.
>
>
Rod Speed
Easy enough with a safe deposit system that you dont have access to yourself and where
you use an operation that counts the cash before documenting what they put in there.
Not that there is any point in going that rather expensive route,
it makes more sense if you want to avoid highly volatile markets
to just put the cash in FDIC insured accounts instead.
>>> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people
>>> were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept mine in a safe
>>> deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room
>>> ,roll a few joints for the weekend and return the box.
>> No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.
>> No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.
> Yes, and cash is a safe deposit is not covered by FDIC or the banks own insurance.
That last isnt always true, and like I said, its cheaper to use FDIC
guaranteed accounts anyway if you just want to avoid highly volatile markets.
William Souden
You,of course, can name same banks that offer such a service.
>
> Not that there is any point in going that rather expensive route,
> it makes more sense if you want to avoid highly volatile markets
> to just put the cash in FDIC insured accounts instead.
>
>>>> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people
>>>> were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept mine in a safe
>>>> deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room
>>>> ,roll a few joints for the weekend and return the box.
>
>>> No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.
>
>>> No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.
>
>> Yes, and cash is a safe deposit is not covered by FDIC or the banks own insurance.
>
> That last isnt always true, and like I said, its cheaper to use FDIC
> guaranteed accounts anyway if you just want to avoid highly volatile markets.
And you will gladly name some banks where their own insurance cover
cash in safe deposit boxes.
>
>
>
Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>>>> Right, keep believing that.
>>>>>>>>>> I will thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> I repeat: paper burns.
>>>>>>>> Never said they did.
Its more commonly offered by cash transacting operations.
>> Not that there is any point in going that rather expensive route,
>> it makes more sense if you want to avoid highly volatile markets
>> to just put the cash in FDIC insured accounts instead.
And thats why its not commonly offered by most banks.
>>>>> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept
>>>>> mine in a safe deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room, roll a few joints for the weekend
>>>>> and return the box.
>>>> No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.
>>>> No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.
>>> Yes, and cash is a safe deposit is not covered by FDIC or the banks own insurance.
>> That last isnt always true, and like I said, its cheaper to use FDIC guaranteed accounts anyway if you just want to
>> avoid highly volatile markets.
> And you will gladly name some banks where their own insurance cover cash in safe deposit boxes.
Its more commonly offered by cash transacting operations.
Macuser
and until poor performance stops getting rewarded with golden parachutes.
Didja hear about the guy who redecorated his office for a million bucks,
while laying people off in the same company and just before getting a
government bailout? He got fired after a lot of bad publicity, but I think
this is more the exception than the rule.
As for me, I lost some but relatively little because most money was in cash.
I have been too lax to invest so I didn't get hit so hard. Slowpokes rule!
"Thrift is sexy." ;)
Macuser
overheat the market even more, and create conditions for an even more
harrowing crash. Thank god George wasn't able to decimate that aspect of our
economy. Enjoy your retirement, George. Don't come back, George.
"Thrift is sexy." ;)
>>