Drive your car to death, save $31,000
SQ
Comments?
It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
every
year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
upgrade?
If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
beyond
is not an issue...
quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drive your car to death, save $31,000
By keeping your car for 200,000 miles or more, you can save the money
of buying a new car. Plus: Cars that can outlast all the rest.
August 31 2007: 1:53 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By keeping your car for 15 years, or
225,000 miles of driving, you could save nearly $31,000, according to
Consumer Reports magazine. That's compared to the cost of buying an
identical model every five years, which is roughly the rate at which
most car owners trade in their vehicles.
In its annual national auto survey, the magazine found 6,769 readers
who had logged more than 200,000 miles on their cars. Their cars
included a 1990 Lexus LS400 with 332,000 miles and a 1994 Ford Ranger
pick-up that had gone 488,000 miles.
Consumer Reports calls the Honda Civic a "Good bet" to make it to
200,000 miles.
Calculating the costs involved in buying a new Honda Civic EX every
five years for 15 years - including depreciation, taxes, fees and
insurance - the magazine estimated it would cost $20,500 more than it
would have cost to simply maintain one car for the same period.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?section=money_topstories
Rod Speed
> Comments?
Thats basically what I do, the last one lasted 30+ years and only
passed its useby date because I was stupid enough to not do anything
about a known leaking windscreen until I got significant floor corrosion that
wasnt economic to repair, or more strictly I couldnt be bothered to do that.
The new one should last for the rest of my life unless some fool wipes it out
on me and the insurance that only costs me $100 will pay for a replacement.
> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles
> or buying a new one every year are two extremes?
You can get more extreme than that, keep it forever
and replace whatever needs replacing when it fails.
> Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for upgrade?
Nope, there will always been a tradeoff between the hassle of fixing
what needs fixing and not having anything break and need fixing.
> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car
> to 200K miles and beyond is not an issue...
Yeah, I only had a couple of quite minor things to replace apart
from the stuff that wears out like tires, battery, brake pads etc.
> quote
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Drive your car to death, save $31,000
> By keeping your car for 200,000 miles or more, you can save the
> money of buying a new car. Plus: Cars that can outlast all the rest.
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By keeping your car for 15 years, or
Chris Hill
>
>Comments?
>It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
>every
>year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
You never save money by trading payments for repair costs. Even
spending $1200 a year repair costs on a truck is cheaper than paying
$6000 a year in payments or more. Cost isn't a valid reason to trade;
too many breakdowns or parts being unavailable are two good ones.
Vic Smith
>
>Comments?
>It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
>every
>year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
>upgrade?
>
>If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
>beyond
>is not an issue...
>
Everybody has their own view on this.
Mine has been to buy GM cars with 2.0, 2.2, 2.8 and 3.1
engines, mostly Chevys. All pushrod.
They are cheap, and I know the weaknesses, which signal themselves,
and are inexpensive to rectify.
You have to know which cars to select, and be willing to do some
repairing for this approach to work. This takes a bit of study, some
mechanical ability, talking with experienced mechanics, etc.
Once you find something that works for you, stick with it.
Otherwise read CR.
$31k is a ridiculous number. Over a 40 year span, that is more than
the sum total I have spent on about 10 cars, including those I bought
for my children.
Frugality with cars is probably the primary reason I found I could
retire at 59. Never cared for them except for transportation, and
never gave a shit about what anybody else thought of my ride.
The kids did, though (-:
--Vic
Bill
Anytime anything breaks I replace it or have it rebuilt. There is no limit.
Engine, transmission, whatever. I don't care if I spend $10,000, as it is
still less than what a new car/truck costs. But...
The most I have ever spent in one year on one vehicle for repairs is $1,200
and that was for a rebuilt engine. Many years it is $600 per vehicle. Some
years close to nothing.
Whenever something breaks and needs replacement (I try to replace things
before they go out totally if possible), I say to myself "Time to make a car
payment!" Then I think about how many months I have gone without making car
payments and am quite glad I am doing things this way.
The only problem with this is you need to be prepared to have your car break
down on the road (very rare if you keep things in good shape, but does
happen), have cell phone and numbers of towing companies, and be financially
prepared to leave car at nearest repair shop and get rental car.
One time I was in another city and the fuel pump went out. It cost me
$700.00 for this including part replacement at repair shop, towing, and
rental car. Had this happened at home, I could have replaced it myself for
$250.00. But that was all I spent on the car for the year, so still big
savings.
If you *must* have a reliable car, then pay the 2 cents and get a new one.
"SQ" wrote in message
Rod Speed
And they will be picking your nursing home. You'll be soorree.... |-(
Don
> Drive your car to death, save $31,000
Bought my 1991 S10 brand new in Sep 1990 for $8,888.
Over the 5 year loan I actually paid over $14k for it.
Its been *free* ever since.
Do the math, $14k / 5 years = $2800 per year that I've saved in truck
payments.
Its been 12 years since I paid it off so the total that I've *saved*, er,
haven't paid is $33,600.
It currently has 144k miles and there have been no repairs over $300 (tires)
done to it.
Its one of the best purchases I've ever made.
Can't believe I've had that thing 1/3 of my life.
Don
"Chris Hill" <hil...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cad5e39kjanujumeo...@4ax.com...
My last car, a 79 Chev Monza, had gotten to the point that I was spending as
much per month in repairs as a new car payment, so I traded it in.
No to mention the cost of having to deal with the whole thing, time off from
work, rental cars, the aggravation, the undependability, etc.
Gini
Gordon
news:1189225873.7...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> Comments?
> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
> every
> year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
> upgrade?
>
> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
> beyond
> is not an issue...
>
>
It can be done. I took a '89 Mazda 626 to 195,000 before my
wife burned out the clutch. It could have gone much further.
I think I saved even more money because I bought it 3 years old.
And that's one idea for saving money on cars. A new car looses
30-50% of it's value in the first 3 years. After that it looses
less than 10% of it's value per year. So by buying a three year
old car you are letting someone else take the sucker punch of the
highest loss of value.
Now, there are those who say you should buy a three year old car
and replace it every year. BUt how much wear and tear can you put
on a car in one year?
So I guess the best idea is to buy a 3 to 5 year old car. Take care
of it to the best of your abilities. When it starts becoming unrelyable,
replace it.
Rod Speed
Depends on how long you keep it. I kept my last one for 30+ years
and the saving on not buying it new is pretty trivial with that sort of
time, and you know that the car hasnt been abused if you buy it new.
I replaced it with another new one with a 5 year warranty,
unlimited miles as far as my use is concerned, just for the
effortless 5 years and not having to fart around having it
tested for registration etc. My state has some pretty rigorous
registration checks which are a bit of a nuisance with older cars.
SQ
not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
Rod Speed
> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
Mine didnt cost anything like that in the last 90% of the 30+ years.
Not even $200.
> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs. a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
Not if you pick the $22K vehicle properly and I paid a lot less than that for its replacement too.
Lou
Never say never - I had one car where the monthly repair costs were greater
than the monthly payments on a brand new vehicle. Car was three or four
years old when the repairs started mounting up - lemon with a capital L.
Rick
Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?
Rick
SQ
IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes
either a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree
mechanic skill set.
Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
$800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
Old cars will need all that.
Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out
regardless of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic
converter, maybe even tear inside the engine for a valve
job. All major $$$.
I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given
a good DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal
way. But article makes no such assumption. If you
take it to mechanics, it seems there is nothing you
can do for under $200. Well, a brake job can be on a special
for $89, and that's just the pads.
Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.
Rod Speed
> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
> Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
> auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
> $800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
> tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
> Old cars will need all that.
Mine didnt.
> Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out regardless
> of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic converter, maybe
> even tear inside the engine for a valve job. All major $$$.
Mine didnt.
> I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given a good
> DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal way.
Mine lasted 30+ years fine.
> But article makes no such assumption. If you take it to mechanics,
> it seems there is nothing you can do for under $200.
Bullshit.
> Well, a brake job can be on a special for $89, and that's just the pads.
It aint the only cheap thing you can get done.
> Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
> automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
> EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
> very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.
Mine didnt.
Vic Smith
That's pretty much what I've heard. If buying new, that might be the
best one to squeeze the most use per dollar from.
But when buy used it's a bit dicier, since because of their rep they
command a high price.
--Vic
Gordon
50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
That's a pretty good metric. And an easy one to beat.
I bought the Mazda for about $6500. Kept it for 14 years.
Thats less than $500/year. Add in the few repairs and it
doesn't raise the cost by more than $100/year.
Figure a replacement alternator (DIY), radiator(diy),
Clutch(mechanic), gaskets and valves(mech), Rear brake
cylanders and master cyl(diy)
As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
can eat up your savings.
SQ
>
> As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
> machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
> can eat up your savings.
Right - and am I just pointing out that the original
article did not take this into consideration.
I am a DIY person but there have been times when
I just couldn't do a job. Case in point -
exhaust repairs. I know how to install a muffler but
just don't have the facilities to do it. Crawling under
a heavy beast without a proper lift is just dangerous.
I once got a muffler and took it to a repair place
and they charged me $120 just to install it, ouch.
Not a difficult job - pull a few bolts here and there.
But I had no choice.
One thing that really helps me is, I have a backup
vehicle. Meaning, when my primary is down, like when
I am replacing the timing belt or the water pump,
I can afford to DIY, slowly, taking a week if
I have to.
A person who cannot afford the downtime cannot do
this, has to take it in someplace in the morning
and pick it up after work.
If you take your car to mechanic and say you need it
yesterday... you will pay for it. Especially these
quick lube type places on the side of the major road
who don't depend on repeat customers.
SQ
I once had 4 beaters in various stages of deterioration.
A full size GM vehicle, 13 years old, had 180K miles, an engine with
100K miles and a few major dents caused by deer which made
it look questionable but did not inhibit the driving
abilities.
Second one was a compact Subaru, had 200K+ miles on body,
100K on engine and 50K on tranny, 12 years old.
Third was a compact Ford product, 120K on it and was 17 years old.
Fourth was full size Ford truck with 100K on body and 60K on engine
but
was 20 years old.
Well - I couldn't keep more than 2 on the road at any one time
on the average due to various issues. Fuel pumps, EFI problems,
exhaust, wheel bearings, tune up, alternator, starter,
power windows... power steering gear box, timing belts,
neutral safety switch and much more.
Once I had mice or some critters chew through the fuel pump
wiring and the vehicle would work randomly. Took me a while
to troubleshoot this one.
It took me weeks to fix something - by shopping around for
the absolute cheapest part, usually used, online, or often
at junk yards. Then finding the time and the place to fix it.
Sure I could have taken them to an auto repair and paid
$400 (as least) for work like fuel pump replacement, but it's so
satisfactory doing it yourself for a fraction of the cost.
I even tried trading all 4 beaters for a normal car
without success.
George
Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you can't
take two days off from work to repair something yourself and if you do
any traveling what do you do when something fails two hundred miles from
home.
SQ
> Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you can't
> take two days off from work to repair something yourself and if you do
> any traveling what do you do when something fails two hundred miles from
> home.-
Well, you can if you have a backup vehicle. But then that's twice
the maintainance, insurance, etc.
With old beaters, you should have two of them, when one is down,
drive the other and vice-versa. There is no way I could have done
all the DIY work if I had just one vehicle.
As I said, I had several either old or high mileage cars and it was
a constant exercise in auto repair skills. There was always something
broken down and needing wrenching. Some projects I just couldn't
figure out, like electrical issues with an airbag.
But it might be wiser to get a newer normal vehicle with lower miles
and
a lower chance of breaking down and having an unplanned downtime.
Then plan the repairs, i.e. start changing the timing belt on Friday
night so it's ready by Saturday (hopefully). And in general, fix
things
before they break and leave you stranded. I am beginning to wonder if
I should replace things like the starter and battery and more
preemptively before they go bad on me and leave me stranded so I have
to
have it towed to a shop for $399 special.
bungalo...@yahoo.com
> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> > a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
>
> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
>
> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
>
Something doesn't sound right, how many miles a year do you put on the
car? No front end work in 30 years? No belts? No coolant/oil/brake
fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs? No rotors? No muffllers? No
shocks? I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything (and I mean
anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.
Too_Many_Tools
One's time is not free...never has been...never will be.
Many times it is more economical to get a minimum wage job and pay
someone else to do the car repair.
TMT
Vic Smith
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>One's time is not free...never has been...never will be.
>
>Many times it is more economical to get a minimum wage job and pay
>someone else to do the car repair.
>
If you value time, it might be better spent learning to do the repair
than working 40 hours at min wage to pay a mechanic for a couple
hours work.
Better yet, learn to select cars that require few repairs.
Another suggestion for those who aren't confident about diagnostics
is to pay a pro for diagnostics, then do the repair yourself.
Sometimes an amateur takes more time to diagnose the actual problem
than doing the repair itself, and often throws unneeded parts at the
problem, causing more expense than necessary.
--Vic
Rod Speed
Wrong. Plenty of time your time is free, when you would
otherwise veg out in front of the TV instead etc.
> Many times it is more economical to get a minimum
> wage job and pay someone else to do the car repair.
Or do the work on your car outside work time. Not a shred of rocket science required whatever.
Rod Speed
>>> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
>>> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
>> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
>> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
>> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
>> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
> Something doesn't sound right,
Fraid so.
> how many miles a year do you put on the car?
Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
> No front end work in 30 years?
None.
> No belts?
Changed the fan belt a few times, but thats a consumable like tires and batterys etc.
> No coolant/oil/brake fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs?
Corse there were, but again, those are consumables, not repairs.
> No rotors?
Yeah, forgot that one, add another $5.
> No muffllers? No shocks?
Nope.
> I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything
> (and I mean anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.
You need to get out more and separate consumables from repairs too.
Seerialmom
I've had no major problems buying older cars for about $1000 to $1200,
mostly just changing oil/tires and driving until I get bored with it 4
years later...and then sell for about the same price. My next to last
car was bought with 36K miles on it, 3 years old....and I drove it
until it had 150K (10 years later) at which point I traded for my
first brand new car. Personally I wish I still had that last car, I
suspect it would have lasted another 100K.
The writer of the article apparently doesn't understand the consumer
mentality though, my own daughter was bought a 92 Camry for
$500....ran just fine...but her BF insisted they had to have a NEW
Dodge Charger...with it's $500 a month payments (not counting
insurance).
Rod Speed
> George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you
>> can't take two days off from work to repair something yourself and
>> if you do any traveling what do you do when something fails two
>> hundred miles from home.-
> Well, you can if you have a backup vehicle.
Those arent the only two alternatives.
> But then that's twice the maintainance,
Nope, the spare wont see that much use.
> insurance, etc.
Not necessarily either.
> With old beaters, you should have two of them,
> when one is down, drive the other and vice-versa.
Thats just one way.
> There is no way I could have done all the DIY work if I had just one vehicle.
Corse you can. I have occasionally had to partially disassemble something,
put it together to go and get what is necessary, then complete the job etc, and
other times its been trivial to walk to where the part is available or ride a bike.
> As I said, I had several either old or high mileage cars
> and it was a constant exercise in auto repair skills. There
> was always something broken down and needing wrenching.
Then you picked the wrong cars to keep that long.
> Some projects I just couldn't figure out, like electrical issues with an airbag.
Never had any of those myself.
> But it might be wiser to get a newer normal vehicle with lower miles and
> a lower chance of breaking down and having an unplanned downtime.
Or just pick a car that is properly designed and isnt a steaming turd on wheels.
> Then plan the repairs, i.e. start changing the timing belt on Friday
> night so it's ready by Saturday (hopefully). And in general, fix things
> before they break and leave you stranded.
Yep, thats generally what I do. If say a wheel bearing
fails, replace them both at the same time etc.
And replace the stuff like radiator hoses before they blow etc.
> I am beginning to wonder if I should replace things like the starter and
> battery and more preemptively before they go bad on me and leave
> me stranded so I have to have it towed to a shop for $399 special.
Yes with the battery but not with the starter.
Tho it doesnt necessarily cost any more to replace a battery when its
on its last legs, you do get some warning that it needs replacement.
Dennis
>Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
>longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?
Mine just turned over 100K -- nothing but normal maintenance (oil
changes, tune ups, tires, batteries and the like) so far. Still going
on the original clutch and brakes. I'll let you know in six or seven
years how it's doing at 200K. :-)
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
James
> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
Its a crap shoot.
You can get a car that will last. One of my staff has a Honda Accord
with close to 900,000 kms (second engine, lots of body work).
On the other hand I had a lemon - a Chrysler Intrepid which I bought
as a 3 year old off lease, and cost me close to 8,000 in repairs over
a 5 year period. Yes I'm an idiot, but when you owe more than the car
is worth its a tough decision. You always think that after you replace
something it should be good for the life of the car. I finally bit the
bullet when the amount required for the next repairs was $1400. And
just to prove a point I was much more careful than my staff memeber
when buying the car - I bought at a reputable place, got an extended
warranty (expired just before the tranny), check the service history
with a fine tooth comb (well maintained).
My current car, on the other hand, did not come with a service
history, but had been bought and gone over by a dealer I trust. I did
run it through Carfax and it was clean. Its now 5 years old, and the
only major issue has been a wheel bearing, othe than consumables like
brakes.
Some models can have more lemons than others, but its still a crap
shoot - even the best manufacturers make some bad ones, and the worst
ones well, they have their fans too.
James
Dennis
<thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>If you value time, it might be better spent learning to do the repair
>than working 40 hours at min wage to pay a mechanic for a couple
>hours work.
>Better yet, learn to select cars that require few repairs.
>Another suggestion for those who aren't confident about diagnostics
>is to pay a pro for diagnostics, then do the repair yourself.
>Sometimes an amateur takes more time to diagnose the actual problem
>than doing the repair itself, and often throws unneeded parts at the
>problem, causing more expense than necessary.
Yep, the shotgun approach can get expensive. A while back, my wife's
car (a Mazda) suddenly began running rough and then the dreaded "Check
Engine" light came on. I made a few cursory checks, didn't find
anything obvious, and took it in to a local independent mechanic.
Their diagnostic read "Misfire" from the car's computer and he found a
defective plug wire. Fifty bucks for the diagnosis, another thirty
bucks at the local parts house for a set of plug wires, twenty minutes
of my time to install them and her car runs like a champ again. Wife
is happy. I am happy. All is well.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
clams casino
>On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:36:03 -0400, Rick <rick...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
>>longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?
>>
>>
>
>Mine just turned over 100K -- nothing but normal maintenance (oil
>changes, tune ups, tires, batteries and the like) so far. Still going
>on the original clutch and brakes. I'll let you know in six or seven
>years how it's doing at 200K. :-)
>
>Dennis (evil)
>
>
I just replaced the original battery this past spring on my 2000 Accord
which is currently at 176k miles. I'll likely need a third set of
tires in December (could likely stretch longer, but I want a good tread
for the winter). I do my own oil changes each 5k, but have the Honda
dealer run their major maintenance at each 35k interval. The water
pump & timing gear were replaced at 105k per the standard maintenance.
Brakes were replaced at about 125k. One headlight was replaced at
about 120k. Alternator was replaced at 135k. Front end was aligned at
90k. The tires have been rotated only at major maintenance intervals &
have not required balancing. I'll likely have the front end aligned
again when the tires are changed. The radio / cassette player had to be
replaced at 150k. The interior / exterior are holding up extremely
well, but I did replace the floor mats at 150k to make it look nice.
The front carpet mats started to look dirty, but I had to buy a full set.
I'm figuring it's at perhaps about half its life.
I recently rented a 2007 Chevrolet Impala. I hope the Accord never
drives as poorly as that Impala did at 10k.
Rod Speed
>>> insurance, etc.
>> Not necessarily either.
>> Thats just one way.
> Its a crap shoot.
Nope, there are indeed some notorious steaming turds on wheels
that should be avoided if you want to keep a car that long.
I didnt initially intend to keep it for 30+ years expected only say 20
or so and it turned out to need so little repairs wise that it made sense
to keep it for that long. And it only stopped being viable at that time
because I had been stupid enough to not attend to the known windscreen
leak until I eventually got floor corrosion. It wouldnt have cost much to
replace the rubber seal to eliminate that problem completely.
> You can get a car that will last. One of my staff has a Honda Accord
> with close to 900,000 kms (second engine, lots of body work).
> On the other hand I had a lemon - a Chrysler Intrepid which
> I bought as a 3 year old off lease, and cost me close to 8,000
> in repairs over a 5 year period. Yes I'm an idiot, but when you
> owe more than the car is worth its a tough decision.
And that problem could have been avoided with
more careful choice of the car in the first place.
> You always think that after you replace something
> it should be good for the life of the car.
Not when its got an obvious design deficiency.
> I finally bit the bullet when the amount required for the next repairs
> was $1400. And just to prove a point I was much more careful than
> my staff memeber when buying the car - I bought at a reputable place,
> got an extended warranty (expired just before the tranny), check the
> service history with a fine tooth comb (well maintained).
But didnt choose the brand and model carefully.
And extended warrantys are almost never good value.
> My current car, on the other hand, did not come with a service history,
Thats one reason to buy new, and doesnt affect the total
cost that much with the longer retention times like 30+ years.
> but had been bought and gone over by a dealer I trust. I did run it
> through Carfax and it was clean. Its now 5 years old, and the only major
> issue has been a wheel bearing, othe than consumables like brakes.
Yeah, thats all I had with the car before the 30+ year one.
I only swapped it for the 30+ year one because it was a VW Beetle
which only had opening front side windows and I had a huge Alsatian
dog that was obsessed with having its head out the window all the
time and would slobber down the back of my neck in summer.
> Some models can have more lemons than others,
Yep.
> but its still a crap shoot
Nope.
> - even the best manufacturers make some bad ones,
That get covered by the warranty.
> and the worst ones well, they have their fans too.
Sure, but those arent deliberately buying that car for its low maintenance costs over 30+ years.
m...@privacy.net
>Yep, the shotgun approach can get expensive. A while back, my wife's
>car (a Mazda) suddenly began running rough and then the dreaded "Check
>Engine" light came on
what model and year Mazda was it?
just curious
Dennis
1995 Protege 1.5L
Gordon
@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> The writer of the article apparently doesn't understand the consumer
> mentality though, my own daughter was bought a 92 Camry for
> $500....ran just fine...but her BF insisted they had to have a NEW
> Dodge Charger...with it's $500 a month payments (not counting
> insurance).
>
Gotta love that consumer mentality. Even our president understands it.
Anyone remember what his great mandate was after 9-11??
Breaking free of the consumer mentality is the first strp to frugal living.
SQ
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:38:55 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
>
A great web site for this research is carsurvey dot org.
Lots of feedback on used cars. It's amazing how some
get consistently bad reviews.
re: diagnosis is another good idea, it takes a fairly
advanced skills set to diagnose bad fuel pump vs.
an ignition problem. A $100+ code scanner is a good
investment however and will pay for itself even if
used just once or twice.
SQ
> Fraid so.
>
> > how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>
> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
Hardly an example of awesome auto repair skills. I can
only image what the rest of the vehicle looked like.
Have you considered getting some help with your vehicle?
Try rec.autos.tech, they have a lot of techically advanced
people.
There are also a lot of forums dedicated to a certain maker.
In any case, you are mistaken about your assumption that
this would be acceptable for the average consumer, even
those with frugal mindsets. In light of this, the rest
of your advice and comments aren't particularly useful.
SQ
>
> On the other hand I had a lemon - a Chrysler Intrepid which I bought
> as a 3 year old off lease, and cost me close to 8,000 in repairs over
> a 5 year period. Yes I'm an idiot, but when you owe more than the car
Don't feel bad, I think most modern automakers across all makes
have serious issues with automatic computer-controlled transmissions.
I find it amazing that they still cannot get it right after all these
decades.
It's Chrysler but also Ford and GM. Foreign too, like BMW and Toyota
and Mazda.
Mazda 626, a joint venture between Ford/Mazda had a Ford trany in it
and was known to go out sometimes 3 times by 100K miles, a nightmare
issue. Automatic trannies need external transmission coolers, larger
oil pan, the tranny oil changed annually... high maintainance.
A 5 speed is far more likely to take you to 20 years than an auto.
It has gotten to the point where I don't trust auto trannies, period.
Check out www carsurvey org for reliability reports.
SQ
Another idea...I think buying a used car, say 5 years old
with OK miles like 80-100K and a blown engine and putting
a new engine in it is a good idea.
You can replace the entire drive train (engine+tranny)
and still have it cost less than a new vehicle and run
forever. If the body is good.
BMW for example has much better corrosion resistance
than Japanese or anything else common. If I had to take
a car to 30 years, that's what I would pick IMO
and for this reason.
Old 1980's Subaru's rusted so bad you could hear it at night.
They are better of course, but I saw a 2001 model rust a bit.
I think age and rust contributes to more failures than miles.
It's very easy to take a 2005 model to 200K miles, but
a 15 year old vehicle will struggle with even 100K miles.
All kinds of electrical problems, leaks, etc.
James
There are many factors in longevity. Rust is one - the salt used to
melt ice and snow does play havoc. But just as important are the
places you drive and how you drive. My dad lives in the country and
used to drive his car 8 miles to work and back on back roads with no
traffic. I drive about 60 miles in a day, and the average time it
takes is 2 hours - stop and start driving, or severe service as the
car manuals state. I don't have a garage. I drive through bad weather,
salty slush and all. Even good rustrpoofing only delays the
inevitable.
One thing I noticed in my recent California vacation is how many older
cars there have bodies in good shape, original paint etc. My current
vehicle started to show rust at 4 years old.
James
bungalo...@yahoo.com
> bungalow_st...@yahoo.com wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> >>> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
> >> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
> >> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
> >> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
> >> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
> > Something doesn't sound right,
>
> Fraid so.
>
> > how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>
> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
>
Ok, the truth is starting to leak out, you have no idea how far you
drive car (I expected that response), and don't fix things that brake
> > No front end work in 30 years?
>
> None.
>
> > No belts?
>
> Changed the fan belt a few times, but thats a consumable like tires and batterys etc
No they arent I have 300,000 miles on a car with no belt changes, you
need to find a better car
.
>
> > No coolant/oil/brake fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs?
>
> Corse there were, but again, those are consumables, not repairs.
>
Plugs are not consumables, my 300,000 mile car has original plugs,
again find a better car next time
> > No rotors?
>
> Yeah, forgot that one, add another $5.
>
> > No muffllers? No shocks?
>
> Nope.
>
> > I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything
> > (and I mean anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.
>
> You need to get out more and separate consumables from repairs too.
You said you spend $100 on maintenance costs, maintenance means
consumables, not repairs, look it up
do you even own a car?
m...@privacy.net
>>>Yep, the shotgun approach can get expensive. A while back, my wife's
>>>car (a Mazda) suddenly began running rough and then the dreaded "Check
>>>Engine" light came on
>>
>>what model and year Mazda was it?
>>
>>just curious
>
>1995 Protege 1.5L
OK.. I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES (1.8 liter).....
and its check engine light come son as well
I should replace the plug wires and se what it does
huh?
Dennis
Um, no. The whole point of my story was that I found it to be more
efficient in my case to spend a few bucks to have a pro with the
proper equipment quickly zero in on the specific problem, then fix
that one thing myself, rather than just start blindly replacing parts
until the problem went away.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
> Hardly an example of awesome auto repair skills.
Its an example of fixing only the things that matter.
> I can only image what the rest of the vehicle looked like.
Your vivid imagination is your problem.
> Have you considered getting some help with your vehicle?
Dont need any. I chose to not fix that because it doesnt matter.
> Try rec.autos.tech, they have a lot of techically advanced people.
Dont need any of those. I physically built my own
house too, doing virtually all the work myself.
> There are also a lot of forums dedicated to a certain maker.
Duh.
> In any case, you are mistaken about your assumption
> that this would be acceptable for the average consumer,
Never ever said a word about those.
> even those with frugal mindsets.
Those are the one that only bother to fix stuff that is needed.
The odo is completely useless to me.
> In light of this, the rest of your advice and comments aren't particularly useful.
Yours in spades when you cant even manage to work out what is worth fixing and what isnt.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> bungalow_st...@yahoo.com wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
>>>>> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
>>>> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
>>>> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
>>>> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
>>>> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
>>> Something doesn't sound right,
>> Fraid so.
>>> how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
> Ok, the truth is starting to leak out,
Nope.
> you have no idea how far you drive car
Wrong. I obviously know how many miles it got on it per year until
the odo failed and know that my usage didnt change after it failed.
> (I expected that response),
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
> and don't fix things that brake
I do fix things that matter, like the alternator regulator.
>>> No front end work in 30 years?
>> None.
>>> No belts?
>> Changed the fan belt a few times, but thats
>> a consumable like tires and batterys etc
> No they arent
Yes they are.
> I have 300,000 miles on a car with no belt changes,
Doesnt get used in the summers we have here were 10 days
over 100F arent uncommon, and a car that isnt garaged at all.
> you need to find a better car
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag or even manage its own lines.
>>> No coolant/oil/brake fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs?
>> Corse there were, but again, those are consumables, not repairs.
> Plugs are not consumables,
Yes they are.
> my 300,000 mile car has original plugs,
Your problem.
> again find a better car next time
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag or even manage its own lines.
>>> No rotors?
>> Yeah, forgot that one, add another $5.
>>> No muffllers? No shocks?
>> Nope.
>>> I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything
>>> (and I mean anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.
>> You need to get out more and separate consumables from repairs too.
> You said you spend $100 on maintenance costs,
In the context of a discussion on repair costs.
> maintenance means consumables, not repairs, look it up
Look up the context of what was being discussed, fool.
> do you even own a car?
You in spades.
Rod Speed
> Another idea...I think buying a used car, say 5 years
> old with OK miles like 80-100K and a blown engine
> and putting a new engine in it is a good idea.
Dunno, I dont like the idea of an engine thats easy to blow
and if someone has done that with a well designed engine,
I dont like the idea of what else they have done to that car.
> You can replace the entire drive train (engine+tranny)
> and still have it cost less than a new vehicle and run
> forever. If the body is good.
Sure, you pay more for a new car but not that much per year if
you plan to keep it for 20-30 years for the effortless convenience.
> BMW for example has much better corrosion resistance than
> Japanese or anything else common. If I had to take a car to
> 30 years, that's what I would pick IMO and for this reason.
Depends on whether its going to be used where corrosion is a problem.
And BMW parts arent that cheap.
> Old 1980's Subaru's rusted so bad you could hear it at night.
> They are better of course, but I saw a 2001 model rust a bit.
> I think age and rust contributes to more failures than miles.
Depends on the environment in which its used.
m...@privacy.net
>Dont need any of those. I physically built my own
>house too, doing virtually all the work myself.
I've always meant to ask you Rod how you found the TIME
to do the above and work as well?
Serious question
And....if doing it over again would you still attempt
it?
m...@privacy.net
>Sure, you pay more for a new car but not that much per year if
>you plan to keep it for 20-30 years for the effortless convenience.
Was your car NOT garaged all those years Rod?
is a garage a necessity in your opinion to get THAT
kind of life form a car?
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dont need any of those. I physically built my own
>> house too, doing virtually all the work myself.
> I've always meant to ask you Rod how you found
> the TIME to do the above and work as well?
> Serious question
Yeah, I sometimes wonder myself now |-)
I basically just used all my non work time to work on the house,
and particularly when doing the concrete blockwork normally
was doing the last of the pointing after dark under lights.
Guess part of it was only doing what mattered like not bothering
to fix the odo on the car, and not bothering to fix the bonnet release
on the car either, just had the bare steel wire coming out of the grill
and put the keyring in a hook on the end of it to release the bonnet.
Too much farting around to replace the bonnet release even tho I did
buy a replacement and gave up on that when I saw the effort required
to replace it, too much other stuff needed to be removed to do that.
> And....if doing it over again would you still attempt it?
Yeah, I'd do it again.
I find the english Grand Designs TV program series very interesting,
some very elegant house designs there. Tempting to do it again even
now but havent actually done that.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Sure, you pay more for a new car but not that much per year if
>> you plan to keep it for 20-30 years for the effortless convenience.
> Was your car NOT garaged all those years Rod?
Thats correct. And its replacement still isnt. It gets parked under the
big trees close to the side of the house and the bird shit it gets is
irritating me enough so I may do some form of carport etc for it now.
Due to the trees the new car doesnt end up with the significant
condensation on it that everyone else gets on their cars left
outside in the winter and we never get snow here.
The car that lasted 30+ years was mostly parked out the front of
the house on the grass, close to the foundations for the garage that
I never did get around to building for it. I later started parking it down
the side of the house just outside the main room with its big glass doors,
when the car theft rate started to increase substantially around here.
Was talking to a fella in hospital who said that he saw his cat
watching something intently out of the window. Turned out to
be a few of our locals pushing his car out of the driveway.
> is a garage a necessity in your opinion to get THAT kind of life form a car?
Nar, it clearly wasnt when the car lasted 30+ years without it,
and was only replaced because I was stupid enough to not fix
the known windscreen leak until that produced a corroded floor.
I had got a set of spare radiator hoses that I kept in
the car in case one ever blew, but even those didnt
deteriorate enough to need replacing over that time.
Usene...@the-domain-in.sig
go...@alltomyself.com says...
It's a big issue in relationships, like right there with the
cars. A great recipe for chronic conflict and resentment. One
partner focused on frugality and self-discipline, while the other
one has a desperate compulsion to blow as much cash and buy as
many toys as possible.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
Gordon
news:MPG.2150afcc5...@nntp.aioe.org:
I'm lucky that way.
Bob F
"Lou" <lpogoda...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> Never say never - I had one car where the monthly repair costs were greater
> than the monthly payments on a brand new vehicle. Car was three or four
> years old when the repairs started mounting up - lemon with a capital L.
But then again, the guy that bought it cheap didn't have a problem for three
years. Thanks.
Bob
Too_Many_Tools
DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
> In article <Xns99A7C298043E1greederxprt...@199.45.49.11>,
> go...@alltomyself.com says...
>
> > Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1189450106.533860.216870
> > @g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > The writer of the article apparently doesn't understand the consumer
> > > mentality though, my own daughter was bought a 92 Camry for
> > > $500....ran just fine...but her BF insisted they had to have a NEW
> > > Dodge Charger...with it's $500 a month payments (not counting
> > > insurance).
> > Gotta love that consumer mentality. Even our president understands it.
> > Anyone remember what his great mandate was after 9-11??
> > Breaking free of the consumer mentality is the first strp to frugal living.
>
> It's a big issue in relationships, like right there with the
> cars. A great recipe for chronic conflict and resentment. One
> partner focused on frugality and self-discipline, while the other
> one has a desperate compulsion to blow as much cash and buy as
> many toys as possible.
>
> --
> Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
Perfect setup for the future divorce.
TMT