comments from canandians, pls: canadian health care
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
To:
This is true. I have a friend in my writer's group from Canada and the last
time she was
here in Nashua we had lunch and this was a topic we discussed.
Gina
First of all:
1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month
of $96
for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you
is how much
we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in
the 55% tax
bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that (I am
not sure of
the exact amount) goes directly to health care our #1 expense.
2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a
health diagnosis
system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you
'yes indeed you
are sick or you need an operation' but now the challenge becomes getting
treated or operated
on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down
the road.
3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to
prescribe drugs.
Have a pain, here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why.
No time for
checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru
as possible
each hour for Government re-imbursement
4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the
emergency room
waiting for treatment.
6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it
required that his
hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125 for a splint
because it is not
covered under health care plus we have to pay $60 for each visit for him to
check it out
each week.
7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting
list . Died
before he could get treatment.
8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more
operations,
unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the
government
then money suddenly appears.
9) The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are
increasing the
funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government
just keeps throwing
money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding
new ways to tax
us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is
a smoker they
will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these
years. My friend is 65
years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese
people either because
they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in
Canada is a
health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health
care costs.
11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes,
junk food and anything
else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on
getting an operation
I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except
if I am a hockey
player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figure. Where
else in the world can
you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get
healthy.
13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer
expense having
never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.
14) Oh yeah, we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them
healthy. Wouldn't
want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things.
But people with
diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles
because it is not
covered by the health care system.
I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the
states, you will be
hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the
advocates will be
pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about
health care up here
and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached
with this subject.
Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.
Rod Speed
> From: xxx...@comcast.net (gina)
> To:
> This is true.
What is true ?
> have a friend in my writer's group from Canada and the last time she was here in Nashua we had lunch and this was a
> topic we discussed.
Pity you mangled the story so comprehensively.
> Gina
> First of all:
> 1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96 for Shirley and I to be covered.
Plenty of other modern first world countrys dont do it like that.
> Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much
> we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat.
Your taxes do a hell of a lot more than just that.
And what matters is that you pay a lot less than americans do to keep theirs afloat.
> I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes.
Wrong. The percentage of your earnings that you lose in tax is a lot less than that 55%
And since you cant get that right, we have to doubt the rest of this mindless crap below.
> A large portion of that
Another lie.
> (I am not sure of the exact amount)
Thats obvious.
> goes directly to health care our #1 expense.
It isnt a large percentage.
> 2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system.
Another lie.
> You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you 'yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation'
And most dont ever need an operation when they get sick.
> but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as
> 2 years down the road.
But only for non urgent non life threatening operations.
> 3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs.
Thats the best way to deal with most things that are wrong with you, fool.
> Have a pain, here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why.
That last is a bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> No time for checking you out
Another bare faced lie.
> because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement
Another bare faced lie.
> 4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
Their choice.
> 5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.
Happens in the US too.
> 6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to
> our surprise we had to pay $125 for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60 for
> each visit for him to check it out each week.
We get ours for free.
> 7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.
I had the same problem, they wouldnt even let me get out
of the bed for a few days, flew me to the state capital in
an air ambulance, fixed the problem in the best hospital
in that state capital, and it didnt even cost me a cent.
> 8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done
> no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money
> suddenly appears.
Another bare faced lie.
> 9) The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but
> waiting lists never get shorter.
Another bare faced lie.
> Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away.
Hardly surprising, people keep getting sick.
> But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
Mine didnt cost me a cent, not even for the free TV.
> 10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it.
Because it will keep blocking, stupid.
> Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe
> we should not treat fat and obese people either because
> they are a drain on the health care system.
Talk is an entirely separate matter to what will ever happen.
> Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health
> care costs.
Another bare faced lie.
> 11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
Another bare faced lie.
> 12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill
> me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the
> queue.
We can do just that if we want to.
And any canadian can get whatever they want outside the country anyway.
> I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away.
Another bare faced lie.
> Go figure.
That you're a pathological liar.
> Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.
You can do that any time you want.
> 13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar
> to the system and pay no premiums.
Another bare faced lie.
> 14) Oh yeah, we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy.
Nope, to stop stuff like AIDS becoming rife, actually.
> Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your
> things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not
> covered by the health care system.
They can afford them.
> I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states, you will be hearing more and more
> about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada.
Plenty of them point to other much better done systems.
> I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here
Pity your claims are mostly bare faced lies and nothing like the truth.
> and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.
No one would ever get that from your lies.
> Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.
Bet you arent even a canadian, just a liar.
Don Klipstein
>First of all:
>1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month
>of $96 for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they
>don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system
>afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings
>go to taxes. A large portion of that (I am not sure of the exact amount)
>goes directly to health care our #1 expense.
Keep in mind that considering all levels and branches of government,
Canada and USA have government spending on healthcare being roughly equal
percentages of their GDP. (about 6.6-6.7% maybe 2-3 years ago). For
this, USA is only buying Medicare/Medicaid/sCHIPS, VA, military
healthcare, county health programs, and employer contributions to health
insurance premiums for employees in these areas. This figure does not
even include employer contributions for health insurance premiums of
police officers and public school teachers!
Also keep in mind what percentage of income USA citizens pay for Federal
taxes, employer share of SS tax, state taxes, local taxes especially
property taxes, telephone taxes, and HOA fees to cover duties that have
normally been municipal functions. Add to this how much more per person
US residents pay for healthcare than Canadians do, including their
employers, and it sounds to me like at least 55% of what American
employers pay to have an employee on the payroll is already going to taxes
and healthcare - whether the employee sees this money in net pay, in
deductions from gross pay, or the employer pays it separately from gross
pay (employer contribution to health insurance premium or employer share
of SS tax - USA phenomena!).
Add to this the fact that the USA is in a deficit spending pattern, with
at least a couple thousand $ per working American being borrowed from
investors annually - and American taxpayers will pay that back plus
interest in the future. It would be less painful in the long run to pay
as we go for what is spent, and for an average working American the
government spending hurden and health insurance burden sound to me over
55% of the total of gross pay and employer payroll expense separated from
nominal gross pay.
>2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a
>health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough
>so he can tell you 'yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation' but
>now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have
>waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.
2 years is true but high side. Where the urgency is great, the wait is
a heck of a lot less.
>3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to
>prescribe drugs. Have a pain, here is a drug to take- not what is
>causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is
>more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for
>Government re-imbursement
>
>4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
Many USA residents do not have one.
>5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the
>emergency room waiting for treatment.
Move over, Rover!
>6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it
>required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay
>$125 for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we
>have to pay $60 for each visit for him to check it out each week.
>
>7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting
>list . Died before he could get treatment.
Ever notice what about half of Americans die of? Our healthcare system
with all the whizbang and gigabucks is not keeping coronary heart disease
from being what close to half of Americans die of!
>8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more
>operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and
>embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.
>
>9) The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are
>increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get
>shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it
>never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax
>us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
What Americans have to pay each year for healthcare is going up about
10% annually.
>10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is
>a smoker they
>will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these
>years. My friend is 65
>years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese
>people either because
>they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in
>Canada is a
>health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health
>care costs.
>
>11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
>
>12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes,
>junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by
>law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would
>be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey
>player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figure. Where
>else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to
>spend money to get healthy.
>
>13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer
>expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no
>premiums.
In the USA, even *illegal* immigrants get roughly what American Medicaid
recipients get, at taxpayer expense.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
in part:
>the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes.
Is this a marginal tax rate, like the way USA's tax brackets work? Or
is every single dollar in your gross pay taxed at that rate?
I have friends in Toronto, and I hear that they take home a little over
half their gross pay.
Most working Americans take home a much higher percentage of nominal
gross pay, but usually either employer or employee or both pay a huge
amount for health insurance - and covering a family now usually costs over
$10,000 a year, and there are usually deductibles and copays that the
covereds pay in addition.
When the employer pays towards this, it is counted separately from the
nominal gross pay. American employers also pay about 7.6% of gross pay
for employer share of SS tax, and this is an amount not deducted from
"gross pay" but a payroll expense in addition to "gross pay".
Let alone property taxes and all the BS taxes Americans pay so that
politicians can say they kept income taxes down.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Rod Speed
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>> the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes.
> Is this a marginal tax rate, like the way USA's tax brackets work?
Yep.
> Or is every single dollar in your gross pay taxed at that rate?
Nope, no modern first world country does it that way.
> I have friends in Toronto, and I hear that they
> take home a little over half their gross pay.
Bet it aint.
> Most working Americans take home a much higher percentage of
> nominal gross pay, but usually either employer or employee or both
> pay a huge amount for health insurance - and covering a family now
> usually costs over $10,000 a year, and there are usually deductibles
> and copays that the covereds pay in addition.
And pay a hell of a lot of property tax separately too.
M.L.
> Medicaid recipients get, at taxpayer expense.
Are you implying that legal American citizens under 65 get the same
medical services that Medicaid recipients and illegals get too? I can
assure you they do not.
Bill Bowden
> In article <EVfDj.809$i54.462@trnddc05>, AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
> in part:
>
> >the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go totaxes.
>
> Is this a marginal tax rate, like the way USA's tax brackets work? Or
> is every single dollar in your gross pay taxed at that rate?
>
> I have friends in Toronto, and I hear that they take home a little over
> half their gross pay.
>
> Most working Americans take home a much higher percentage of nominal
> gross pay, but usually either employer or employee or both pay a huge
> $10,000 a year, and there are usually deductibles and copays that the
> covereds pay in addition.
> When the employer pays towards this, it is counted separately from the
> nominal gross pay. American employers also pay about 7.6% of gross pay
> for employer share of SS tax, and this is an amount not deducted from
> "gross pay" but a payroll expense in addition to "gross pay".
>
Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
$30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
tax.
-Bill
Bob F
"Bill Bowden" <wronga...@att.net> wrote in message
news:a3a7b224-db20-4a73-86c0-
>Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>$30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>tax.
Thus making living in poverty a much better life than being filthy rich and
paying 15%.
Anthony Matonak
> "Bill Bowden" <wronga...@att.net> wrote in message...
>> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>> incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>> $30K pay little or no tax.
>
> paying 15%.
I would much rather have 85% of something than 100% of nothing.
Anthony
Roughrider50
wrote:
What do you propose as an alternative? Maybe socialism suits you?
What's the problem? lets see now 15% of one million equals $150K in
taxes, an earned income credit of $2K & no taxes is the other end of
the spectrum. As a rule the latter uses more public services &
generates more public expense than the former. Add to the fact the
latter provides nothing to help the economy or his fellow
citizens........like jobs & direct economic stimulus.
Now maybe you were denied(by government edict)the same opportunities
as the "filthy rich", but I highly suspect that's more inline with
your pity trip, or your gimme mentality.
I think for now I'll go with the "filthy rich"
.
"To take from one, because it is thought that his
own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much,
in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers have not
exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate
arbitrarily the first principle of association,
'the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his
industry, and the fruits acquired by it.'"
-- Thomas Jefferson
Many of you are well enough off that the
tax cuts may have helped you.
We're saying that for America to get back on track,
we're probably going to cut that short and not give it
to you. We're going to take things away from you on
behalf of the common good.
Hillary Clinton
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"Don Klipstein" <d...@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrnftrcp...@manx.misty.com...
one we
have hear, but their taxes are higher for it?
>
123
And that is a bare faced lie, particularly for those who dont have an employer funded health care plan.
> but their taxes are higher for it?
And that is another lie. You only get that result if you ignore what most pay for their health care in the US.
Bill Bowden
> "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...@att.net> wrote in message
15% only applies to the first $22,000. It goes up from there. How do
you expect to pay for all the entitlements and social programs with a
15% tax rate on the few 'filthy rich' ? It's a lot higher than that.
And they always advertise the new rules as a 'tax reduction' when in
reality it's a tax increase. For example, Clinton's tax reduction act
of 1996 actually raised taxes on investments by eliminating the option
to sell short anything you already owned. For years, investors used
the 'sell short against the box' option to reduce market risk on
investments they wanted to sell but didn't want to pay the capitol
gains tax. The easy solution was to sell short the same number of
shares you owned to put yourself in a neutral position and ride out
the market decline with no tax conquences. That option was quietly
eliminated, with no discussion about it, in order to force investors
to sell positions and pay capitol gains tax. And all that was
advertised as a 'tax reduction act' that promised to reduce everyone's
tax.
BS.
-Bill
val189
wrote:
> 7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting
> list . Died
> before he could get treatment.
You fail to tell how long he was ON that waiting list.
> 10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is
> a smoker they
> will not do it.
Why? There had to more of a reason than just a flat out arbitrary
denial.
The Real Bev
> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
> incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
> $30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
> actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
> income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
> tax.
BUT they still have to pay Social Security, and if they're self-employed
(handymen, for instance) they have to pay the employer's share too.
--
Cheers,
Bev
===============================================
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.
The mime next door went nuts!
Don Klipstein
>Bill Bowden wrote:
>
>> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>> incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>> $30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>> actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>> income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>> tax.
>
>BUT they still have to pay Social Security, and if they're self-employed
>(handymen, for instance) they have to pay the employer's share too.
Along with state income taxes, and local income taxes in most of many
population center metropolitan areas, and property taxes (which are part
of rent payments paid by tenants). Further along with state sales taxes,
and furthermore in some big cities municipal sales taxes! Add to that
telephone taxes and after that taxes on other utility services -
especially electricity!
Also keep in mind what health insurance for a working USA citizen at a
lower income level costs as a percentage of employer's payroll cost,
whether paid by the employer or the employee or split between them!
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"val189" <gweh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:f7cdcca3-e2f9-4cf5...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 16, 4:02 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a
>> waiting
>> list . Died
>> before he could get treatment.
>
> You fail to tell how long he was ON that waiting list.
i don't have that info. that's some of the stuff i'd like any canadian
readers to post. just how long do you have to wait for this kind of stuff.
>
>
>> 10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she
>> is
>> a smoker they
>> will not do it.
>
> Why? There had to more of a reason than just a flat out arbitrary
> denial.
evidently it's because she's a smoker. not so sure i blame them for this
one, tho.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
> In article <MzGDj.69$XB6...@newsfe06.lga>, The Real Bev wrote:
>>Bill Bowden wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>>> incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>>> $30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>>> actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>>> income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>>> tax.
>>
>>BUT they still have to pay Social Security, and if they're self-employed
>>(handymen, for instance) they have to pay the employer's share too.
>
> Along with state income taxes, and local income taxes in most of many
> population center metropolitan areas, and property taxes (which are part
> of rent payments paid by tenants). Further along with state sales taxes,
> and furthermore in some big cities municipal sales taxes! Add to that
> telephone taxes and after that taxes on other utility services -
> especially electricity!
i read somewhere that in the usa, our actual tax rate is closer to 80/85%
when all these
little taxes are figured in. i'm thinking it's the top tier tax rate.
clams_casino
Actually it's closer to 30% where most everyone pays between 28-32%.
Contrary to what you might believe (or are often times lead to believe),
the wealthy tend to be on the lower end of that range. Granted, the
wealthy typically pay more in income taxes, but the lower income groups
tends to pay a high percentage of their income in FICA, sales taxes,
excise taxes etc.
clams_casino
>
>
>Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes
>
Hmm - how does one get to avoid FICA, sales, excise & property taxes?
Neat trick. Care to share?
James
>
> - Show quoted text -
You'd win the bet Rod.....I bet you argue with me even when we agree.
This is the federal tax rate in Canada:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html
15% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $37,884 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable
income between $37,885 and $75,769), +
26% on the next $47,415 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable
income between $75,769 and $123,184), +
29% of taxable income over $123,184.
This is the provincial tax rate in Ontario, the province with the
highest population:
6.05% on the first $36,020 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,021, +
11.16% on the amount over $72,041
There is a Goods and Services tax on retail items and many services of
5 % (down from 7%). There are provincial sales taxes as well.
Property taxes are variable. Toronto's property taxes are much much
lower than any major US city.
The Ontario health care tax ranges from 0 for those with incomes under
$20,000 to $900 for those whose income exceeds $200,000.
In 2005, per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. was US
$6,401; in Canada, US$3,326 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/33/38979719.pdf
Much of the difference is the cost of health care administration in
the US.
When my wife had an accident, she had a CT scan and an MRI within
hours of being admitted. I waited 7 hours for a broken ankle. It would
have been a lot less if those with the sniffles weren't clogging the
line.
Personally health care in Canada is ok, but not always great. Many of
the stories of waiting lists are legends. You can shop doctors and
hospitals to get shorter lists. Many Canadians struggle to find a GP,
but same can be said for the US.
James
123
Usual mindless lie.
> i'm thinking it's the top tier tax rate.
What is ?
Don Klipstein
I think 28-32% is rather optimistic. I remember "Tax Freedon Day"
usually being sometime in May. That day divides the year into portions
of size that represent taxes and what you have after paying taxes. It
represents when you stop working for taxes and start working for yourself.
It appears to me that this does not include employer share of FICA, but
only taxes taken out of "nominal gross pay" or paid on basis other than
income (such as property taxes and sales taxes).
And there is some truth to really high income people paying a lower
percentage. Income past a certain amount is not subject to FICA (but then
again SS benefits are determined by FICA taxable portion of your income).
Wealthy high income people have more of their income being from long term
capital gains and "qualified dividends", which are taxed at a lower rate.
And it is mainly the haves that have tax free bonds, tax free dond fund
investments, and money in tax free money market funds. Warren Buffet says
he pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary
does.
There is a frequently-cited study saying what percentage of taxes and
what percentage of income are from the top whatever %, but it has a flaw
of underestimating the income in top income groups by only knowing the tax
amounts and assuming the tax is imposed at the rate for wages, salaries
and tips.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
And most states have state income taxes, and now most municipalities
have income or wage taxes.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Dennis
FICA is easy enough - just don't have any earned income.
Likewise, to avoid sales tax spend in a state that doesn't have such a
thing.
Excise and property taxes might be harder to avoid paying, at least
indirectly.
Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin
George Grapman
The only city I ever worked in that had an income tax was New York but
many cities, including San Francisco, levy a payroll tax on employers.
George Grapman
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:16:13 -0400, clams_casino
> <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill Bowden wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes
>>>
>> Hmm - how does one get to avoid FICA, sales, excise & property taxes?
>>
>> Neat trick. Care to share?
>
> FICA is easy enough - just don't have any earned income.
A few problems with that:
You lose the Social Security and Medicare safety nets.
Ir you lose an off the books job you can not collect unemployment
insurance. Also, is you are injured on the job forget about workers comp
of,for that matter, suing the employer. Actually you can sue but you
will have to go after the company as their insurance will not cover an
off the books worker.
Also you need to keep a low profile. If a financial institution shows
you earning interest on regular deposits the IRS may want to look into
it. Likewise they check DMV records so you might consider driving an
older car.
>
> Likewise, to avoid sales tax spend in a state that doesn't have such a
> thing.
Easy if you live near another state. Herder when, as in my case, the
nearest state line is about 200 miles away.
Don Klipstein
Grapman wrote:
Philadelphia has a wage tax, about 4.4% on Philly residents, and about
3.8% on nonresidents last time I checked. Many of Philadelphia's suburbs
have a similar tax, usually 1%.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:bAZDj.5403$Rq1....@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Dennis wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:16:13 -0400, clams_casino
>> <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>
>> Likewise, to avoid sales tax spend in a state that doesn't have such a
>> thing.
>
> Easy if you live near another state. Herder when, as in my case, the
> nearest state line is about 200 miles away.
and most states require you to pay the sales tax even if you didn't buy it
in your state.
James
wrote:
> "George Grapman" <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
I went on vacation to LA last summer, and bought a new camera from a
NJ website. To take advantage of a US only rebate, I didn't ship it
home to Canada, I had it shipped to LA. I got to use the rebate (FIL
sent it in) and paid zero sales tax - sweet. :)
James
Dennis
<sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>Dennis wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:16:13 -0400, clams_casino
>> <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Bowden wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes
>>>>
>>> Hmm - how does one get to avoid FICA, sales, excise & property taxes?
>>>
>>> Neat trick. Care to share?
>>
>> FICA is easy enough - just don't have any earned income.
>
> A few problems with that:
>
> You lose the Social Security and Medicare safety nets.
> Ir you lose an off the books job you can not collect unemployment
>insurance. Also, is you are injured on the job forget about workers comp
>of,for that matter, suing the employer. Actually you can sue but you
>will have to go after the company as their insurance will not cover an
>off the books worker.
> Also you need to keep a low profile. If a financial institution shows
>you earning interest on regular deposits the IRS may want to look into
>it. Likewise they check DMV records so you might consider driving an
>older car.
There are perfectly legal (and common) ways to live on unearned income
(think investments) without any fraud or skulking about involved. ;-)
And if you have enough earned income history behind you, leaving the
earned income world doesn't have much effect on your eligibility for
SS and Medicare benefits when you are of age. BTDT.
>>
>> Likewise, to avoid sales tax spend in a state that doesn't have such a
>> thing.
>
> Easy if you live near another state. Herder when, as in my case, the
>nearest state line is about 200 miles away.
Even easier, live in a no-sales-tax state (as I do). I am even exempt
from paying sales tax on purchases made in neighboring states. Nice,
since I live near the border with a sales-tax state.
Bill Bowden
Sure. First, you avoid FICA tax by not working for wages. Second, you
avoid sales tax by buying most everything at swap meets and garage
sales. Third, you avoid property tax by owning (real estate investment
trusts) REITS in the stock market which has no property tax. And
fourth, you reduce all taxes by owning an S-corporation that never
makes a profit, but has lots of expenses.
-Bill
clams_casino
All tricks widely used by the "lower income" groups who "pay no taxes"?
Never realized the lower income groups were so savvy.
JonL
> From: xxx...@comcast.net (gina)
> To:
>
> This is true. I have a friend in my writer's group from Canada and the last
> time she was
> here in Nashua we had lunch and this was a topic we discussed.
Doesn't sound like a transcript of a discussion, more like a written
letter. I notice she had no personal negative experiences. Seems to
me, Canadians posting here in the past were generally quite satisfied
with their system.
If it were me, think I'd snoop in some Canadian forums, such as:
old, but might be interesting
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0003.gladwellgopnik.html
James
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> > From: xxxx...@comcast.net (gina)
If I were paranoid I'd look to see if this existing back in the days
of Hillary's first healthcare proposals when Bill was president.
There was an ochestrated campaign to smear Canadian Healthcare then ,
paid for by the US health insurance industry.
I'm not satisfied with everything in our system, there is room for
improvement in many areas. But at least my care is determined by a
doctor of my choosing, not a bean counter whose mandate is to cut
costs.
James
Rod Speed
Thats just plain wrong with your health insurance.
JonL
Bob F
"Bill Bowden" <wronga...@att.net> wrote in message
news:9a80e468-cb39-4474...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 16, 11:38 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...@att.net> wrote in message
>
>> news:a3a7b224-db20-4a73-86c0-
>
>> >Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>> >incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>> >$30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>> >actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>> >income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>> >tax.
>>
>> paying 15%.
>15% only applies to the first $22,000. It goes up from there. How do
>you expect to pay for all the entitlements and social programs with a
>15% tax rate on the few 'filthy rich' ? It's a lot higher than that.
Really? What's the long term capital gains rate in the U.S.? What's the tax on
dividends? Where do you suppose the "filthy rich" make mnost of their money?
krw
bobn...@gmail.com says...
definition) pays in taxes. You'll find it's a lot more than those
that aren't so "filthy".
--
Keith
clams_casino
Total or percentage of income?
Bill Bowden
Doesn't take too many big tax payments to get savvy. There are many
low income carpet layers for example that do all work under contract,
thus avoiding FICA tax. The profits are all in the inflated materials
cost and the labor is a dollar an hour. The down side is the sales tax
goes up, but since the sales tax is only half the FICA tax, it makes
sense to move all the profits into materials and little in labor. They
are not as stupid as you think.
-Bill
krw
PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com says...
Yes.
--
Keith
Don Klipstein
Bill Bowden wrote:
>On Mar 20, 5:24 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>> Bill Bowden wrote:
>> >On Mar 18, 9:16 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>Bill Bowden wrote:
>>
>> >>>Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes
>>
>> >>Hmm - how does one get to avoid FICA, sales, excise & property taxes?
>>
>> >>Neat trick. Care to share?
>>
>> >Sure. First, you avoid FICA tax by not working for wages. Second, you
>> >avoid sales tax by buying most everything at swap meets and garage
>> >sales. Third, you avoid property tax by owning (real estate investment
>> >trusts) REITS in the stock market which has no property tax. And
>> >fourth, you reduce all taxes by owning an S-corporation that never
>> >makes a profit, but has lots of expenses.
>>
>> >-Bill
>>
>> All tricks widely used by the "lower income" groups who "pay no taxes"?
>>
>> Never realized the lower income groups were so savvy.
>
>Doesn't take too many big tax payments to get savvy. There are many
>low income carpet layers for example that do all work under contract,
>thus avoiding FICA tax. The profits are all in the inflated materials
>cost and the labor is a dollar an hour.
I thought people doing that had to file a Schedule C, for self
employment income (Profit from Business or Profession). The profit goes
onto a 1040, and then have to file a Schedule SE to pay both employer and
employee share of FICA tax on the self employment income.
> The down side is the sales tax
>goes up, but since the sales tax is only half the FICA tax, it makes
>sense to move all the profits into materials and little in labor. They
>are not as stupid as you think.
>
>-Bill
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
clams_casino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Why don't you look up what the "filthy rich" (whatever your
>>>definition) pays in taxes. You'll find it's a lot more than those
>>>that aren't so "filthy".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Total or percentage of income?
>>
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>
>
So you ae clueless.
clams_casino
So fraud is your suggested way to avoid taxes.
h
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:KODEj.12772$KJ1....@newsfe19.lga...
> krw wrote:
>
>>In article <h9ydnVtamKCaaH_a...@comcast.com>,
>>bobn...@gmail.com says...
>>
>>>"Bill Bowden" <wronga...@att.net> wrote in message
>>>news:9a80e468-cb39-4474...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Mar 16, 11:38 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>"Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...@att.net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>news:a3a7b224-db20-4a73-86c0-
>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>>>>>>incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>>>>>>$30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>>>>>>actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>>>>>>income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>>>>>>tax.
>>>>>>
You're kidding, right? I grossed $25,000 last year and I paid just over
$5,000 in Federal income tax. That's 20% of my income, not 15%. When you add
that to the $5,000 I pay in property and school taxes and the $800 I pay in
state income tax, that's more than 40% of my income to taxes.
h
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> Bill Bowden wrote:
>
>>Doesn't take too many big tax payments to get savvy. There are many
>>low income carpet layers for example that do all work under contract,
>>thus avoiding FICA tax. The profits are all in the inflated materials
>>cost and the labor is a dollar an hour. The down side is the sales tax
>>goes up, but since the sales tax is only half the FICA tax, it makes
>>sense to move all the profits into materials and little in labor.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm self-employed. I pay TWICE the amount of FICA on
100% of the business profits. If you get a W-2, you pay 7.5% and your
employer pays 7.5%. If you have no employer, you pay 15%, right off the top,
into Social Security. The government doesn't care how you made your profit
(labor or materials) they tax you 15% on the entire profit. You clearly
don't know what you're talking about.
clams_casino
You better get some help with your taxes.
Assuming you are single, you should not have paid more than $2000 (about
8%) in federal income tax (less if married, etc) on a gross income of $25K.
Furthermore, if you had $5k in property taxes, plus $800 in state
income, you probably should have itemized for an even lower federal tax
amount (std deduction for a single is $5350).
On the other hand, it is true that the lower income groups do tend to
pay higher percentages of their income in total taxes vs. the
wealthy. Don't forget the FICA taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes,
excise taxes on tobacco & liquor, etc.
h
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
The problem is that my income is 100% business profit. I don't have an
employer to pay the 7.5% to SS, so I pay the full 15% myself. I've had a CPA
do my taxes for years, and he's saved me tons, and of course I itemize. A
few years ago I took my taxes to H&R Block to see if they could beat my tax
guy, and they missed lots of deductions. I would have been paying at least
an extra $500 if I used them. The real problem is I live in NY, and our
property/school taxes go up 15-20% a year. Also, since my mortgage is nearly
paid off and my rate is low, my interest deduction amounts to very little.
clams_casino
It appears you are including your SS taxes in that $5k of "Federal
Income Taxes".
If so, you are actually paying 15% FICA ($3750) & 5% Federal Income
($1250) on your taxable profit (assuming you have declared all your
income) - not your gross income as claimed.
Nevertheless, you do likely pay a higher percentage of your income in
taxes than typically for the "wealthy".
h
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
Between the Feds, State, Property, and School, it's over 40% of my gross
income. It makes buying health insurance impossible, and contributing to my
retirement account extremely difficult. If I can deposit $1,000 a year I
consider myself fortunate. Good thing I'm frugal!
clams_casino
>
>
>Between the Feds, State, Property, and School, it's over 40% of my gross
>income. It makes buying health insurance impossible, and contributing to my
>retirement account extremely difficult. If I can deposit $1,000 a year I
>consider myself fortunate. Good thing I'm frugal!
>
>
>
>
Subsidized health care is another significant advantage the higher
income workers tend to enjoy. It's typically $12-15k / year in tax free
benefits (essentially welfare for the wealthy) which significantly
distorts the percent taxes paid by the upper income earners..
Typically the lower income groups must purchase theirs pretax..
krw
PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com says...
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
The effective income tax rate for the bottom 20% is was
-5.4%.
--
Keith
clams_casino
Ok - now what about the rest of the taxes? Hint - Federal income
taxes are only about 1/3 of total taxes (on the average).
Another hint - That bottom 20% is paying a whole lot higher percentage
in FICA, excise, sales & likely property taxes vs. the upper 1%.
If you haven't figured it out yet, the sweet spot in the US is at about
100-150k when you factor in all taxes & government subsidies (medical,
housing, etc) .
clams_casino
Oops - they typically must buy their healthcare using after tax income.
krw
> krw wrote:
>
> >In article <ljMEj.31224$QC.1...@newsfe20.lga>,
> >PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com says...
> >
> >
> >>krw wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Why don't you look up what the "filthy rich" (whatever your
> >>>>>definition) pays in taxes. You'll find it's a lot more than those
> >>>>>that aren't so "filthy".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Total or percentage of income?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Yes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>So you ae clueless.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Nope, but apparently you're as thick as the left edge of a brick.
> >
> >http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
> >
> >The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
> >The effective income tax rate for the bottom 20% is was
> >-5.4%.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Ok - now what about the rest of the taxes? Hint - Federal income
> taxes are only about 1/3 of total taxes (on the average).
>
> Another hint - That bottom 20% is paying a whole lot higher percentage
> in FICA, excise, sales & likely property taxes vs. the upper 1%.
Property taxes too? Excise? You *do* know what "excise" tax is? I
*highly* doubt it.
>
>
> If you haven't figured it out yet, the sweet spot in the US is at about
> 100-150k when you factor in all taxes & government subsidies (medical,
> housing, etc) .
Is $100K-$150K == "filthy rich"? According to the leftist loons it
is.
--
Keith
Bill Bowden
> In <2dd6071d-a238-48fa-add7-25e6a517e...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
They use schedule D (capital gains), not C. They own the corporation
they work for part time at a dollar an hour. All income is investment
income and paid as distributions. Materials and expenses are inflated,
wages and FICA taxes are minimal.
-Bill
aemeijers
> In <2dd6071d-a238-48fa...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
(snip)
>>> Never realized the lower income groups were so savvy.
>> Doesn't take too many big tax payments to get savvy. There are many
>> low income carpet layers for example that do all work under contract,
>> thus avoiding FICA tax. The profits are all in the inflated materials
>> cost and the labor is a dollar an hour.
>
> I thought people doing that had to file a Schedule C, for self
> employment income (Profit from Business or Profession). The profit goes
> onto a 1040, and then have to file a Schedule SE to pay both employer and
> employee share of FICA tax on the self employment income.
>
>> The down side is the sales tax
>> goes up, but since the sales tax is only half the FICA tax, it makes
>> sense to move all the profits into materials and little in labor. They
>> are not as stupid as you think.
>>
>> -Bill
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Last carpet layer I hired (to do some patch work) had is own truck and
tools, and did installs for a big-box during the days. My work, he did
after supper, and I paid in cash. He did such a good fast job I had him
back two weeks later to do a bathroom floor revinyl.
--
aem sends...
mira...@msn.com
The worst about taxes here in Canada is that we have a provincial tax
that is added over the GST so you pay lets say 5 %, then add to the
original amount and then add another sales tax called QST 6.5 %. So
you cant say you paid 11.5 % tax no in fact you paid more than that,
it would be more around 12 %.
We have to pay around 17% income tax to federal, 20% to provincial,
municipal tax, schools tax, transport tax(paid on car registration
renewed every year), inside your income tax report you will have a few
more taxes attached besides healthcare, there's the poverty found
thing, and we in Quebec pay a surtax(I don't know why we already paid
federal tax),everytime you go to see a event, you will have another
tax to pay over the GST and QST, its supposedly for the government to
help the artist industry. But funny thing is artists, every week one
goes public about the lack of help from our government or the way they
are being treated.
We don't have the choice when it comes to having a family doctor, I
can assure you that they are very hard to find these days, i've been
trying to find one since last year, all general medicine doctors are
filled up.
The surgeons are really limited in the number of operations one can do
in a year, its a fact, we are losing our new formed surgeon to US
hospital because here they are limited to around 200 000 to 350 000 a
year. An American surgeon can earn a lot more than that they have
actually no limit in the number of surgery they can accomplish in a
year, so i figure it could be twice as much what a Canadian surgeon
would get in Canada if not triple.
If you have to go to hospital, bring a pillow, blanket and food cause
you are not getting out the same day, in some Montreal ER hospitals
the waiting time is 36 hours, never goes under 24 hours and can
sometimes go up to 72 hours.
Ive seen in news papers and heard on radio from quite a few ppl dying
b4 they could get the surgery they needed because of the long waiting
lists. Now at least the government, since it went in the media, will
pay for the surgery in US if the surgery cannot be perform in the
proper time. But a lot of people had to die, so this could change.
Your best chance of not waiting too long but it will not be withing
the hour, never unless you pay, right now there is a lot of
questioning going on about a private clinic that hires doctors to
perform surgery for them, most likely doctors that have time on their
hands, because of the limitation.
So all in all, if you look at all the taxes that you pay each day +
the 2 income taxes, municipal and schools taxes, and soon we might
have to pay a road tax, to fix our very bad roads, badly built and
viaducts falling, we will be facing an enormous cost to secure roads,
bridges and highways.
Sometimes I wonder when will they start taxing us to use the sidewalk!
Rod Speed
Thats a lie if you show up with a life threatening problem
like the symptoms that you are having a heart attack.
> Ive seen in news papers and heard on radio from quite a few ppl dying b4
> they could get the surgery they needed because of the long waiting lists.
That happens in the US system too.
> Now at least the government, since it went in the media, will pay for
> the surgery in US if the surgery cannot be perform in the proper time.
And that isnt available in the US.
> But a lot of people had to die,
Bet thats another lie.
> so this could change.
Yes, they may well do something about more timely surgery.
> Your best chance of not waiting too long but it will
> not be withing the hour, never unless you pay,
Another lie.
> right now there is a lot of questioning going on about a private
> clinic that hires doctors to perform surgery for them, most likely
> doctors that have time on their hands, because of the limitation.
> So all in all, if you look at all the taxes that you pay each day +
> the 2 income taxes, municipal and schools taxes, and soon we might
> have to pay a road tax, to fix our very bad roads, badly built and
> viaducts falling, we will be facing an enormous cost to secure roads,
> bridges and highways.
And Canadians pay less in total for all their taxes and medical costs than USians do.
> Sometimes I wonder when will they start taxing us to use the sidewalk!
More fool you.
Don Klipstein
>http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
>
>The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
On "ordinary income" such as wages, salaries and tips. The top rate for
long term capital gains and qualified dividends is 15%.
>The effective income tax rate for the bottom 20% is was -5.4%.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
clams_casino
>Property taxes too? Excise? You *do* know what "excise" tax is? I
>*highly* doubt it.
>
>
>>
>>
for a start, the most commonly paid excise tax is for gasoline.
>>If you haven't figured it out yet, the sweet spot in the US is at about
>>100-150k when you factor in all taxes & government subsidies (medical,
>>housing, etc) .
>>
>>
>
>Is $100K-$150K == "filthy rich"? According to the leftist loons it
>is.
>
>
>
Never said such. I started $100-150k is the sweet spot income in the
US for taxes & government subsidies.
Not only clueless about the US tax structure, but you also obviously
have significant reading comprehension problems as well.
clams_casino
>
> Last carpet layer I hired (to do some patch work) had is own truck and
> tools, and did installs for a big-box during the days. My work, he did
> after supper, and I paid in cash. He did such a good fast job I had
> him back two weeks later to do a bathroom floor revinyl.
>
> --
> aem sends...
The real (tax) advantage of being a small business...........
krw
says...
> In article <MPG.224e0b632...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
>
> >http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
> >
> >The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
>
> On "ordinary income" such as wages, salaries and tips. The top rate for
> long term capital gains and qualified dividends is 15%.
That is *EFFECTIVE TAX RATE*, not the incremental _income_ tax rate.
> >The effective income tax rate for the bottom 20% is was -5.4%.
I suppose -5.4% was on "capital gains" too.
--
Keith
Don Klipstein
>In article <slrnfu93o...@manx.misty.com>, d...@manx.misty.com
>says...
>> In article <MPG.224e0b632...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
>> >
>> >The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
>>
>> On "ordinary income" such as wages, salaries and tips. The top rate for
>> long term capital gains and qualified dividends is 15%.
>
>That is *EFFECTIVE TAX RATE*, not the incremental _income_ tax rate.
That 15% is the incremental rate for qualified dividends and long term
capital gains in the top bracket.
You may not call these items income, but individuals receiving these
are normally required to report them on Schedules B/D and the totals on
those schedules on the appropriate lines of a 1040.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
krw
> In article <MPG.224ebeec3...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
> >In article <slrnfu93o...@manx.misty.com>, d...@manx.misty.com
> >says...
> >> In article <MPG.224e0b632...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
> >>
> >> >http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
> >> >
> >> >The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
> >>
> >> On "ordinary income" such as wages, salaries and tips. The top rate for
> >> long term capital gains and qualified dividends is 15%.
> >
> >That is *EFFECTIVE TAX RATE*, not the incremental _income_ tax rate.
>
> That 15% is the incremental rate for qualified dividends and long term
> capital gains in the top bracket.
The *effective* tax rate (percentage of tax paid of the adjusted
gross income). Any clearer?
>
> You may not call these items income, but individuals receiving these
> are normally required to report them on Schedules B/D and the totals on
> those schedules on the appropriate lines of a 1040.
The IRS does, why don't you?
--
Keith
Don Klipstein
>In article <slrnfue1l...@manx.misty.com>, d...@manx.misty.com
>says...
>> In article <MPG.224ebeec3...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
>> >In article <slrnfu93o...@manx.misty.com>, d...@manx.misty.com
>> >says...
>> >> In article <MPG.224e0b632...@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0#table1A
>> >> >
>> >> >The effective federal income tax rate (2001) for the top 1% was 33%.
>> >>
>> >> On "ordinary income" such as wages, salaries and tips. The top rate for
>> >> long term capital gains and qualified dividends is 15%.
>> >
>> >That is *EFFECTIVE TAX RATE*, not the incremental _income_ tax rate.
>>
>> That 15% is the incremental rate for qualified dividends and long term
>> capital gains in the top bracket.
>
>The *effective* tax rate (percentage of tax paid of the adjusted
>gross income). Any clearer?
It looks clearer that my 1040-reported tax is increased by only $150K
if I realized 11 megabucks in long term capital gains in lieu of 10
megabucks of realized long term capital gains last year.
Adjusted gross income is line 37/38 on the 2007 1040. The worksheet on
page 35 of the 2007 1040 instruction booklet allows long term capital
gains and qualified dividends to have an effect on line 44 so that those
forms of income received by the individual taxpayer are taxed at a rate no
more than 15% from first dollar to 99-billionth dollar.
Wages, salaries, tips and profit from profession or being a proprietor
can easily be taxed at a much higher rate than that, both incrementally
and for average from first dollar to last dollar earned in the most recent
full calendar year.
>> You may not call these items income, but individuals receiving these
>> are normally required to report them on Schedules B/D and the totals on
>> those schedules on the appropriate lines of a 1040.
>
>The IRS does, why don't you?
What do you mean I don't?
--
Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
snip
And
> fourth, you reduce all taxes by owning an S-corporation that never
> makes a profit, but has lots of expenses.
and then wait for the irs to check you out. i'm pretty sure a corporation
can't just go on never making a profit without the irs wondering.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
i'm reading in several tax publications i get that the irs is gearing up to
really go after those small businesses as they realize that they underreport
income and overreport deductions and it's a huge drain. be especially
careful if your business hires independent contractors since many are really
employees and the irs is fixing to take care of that.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"JonL" <Jo...@Mayday.com> wrote in message
news:47E2BB0B...@Mayday.com...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> From: xxx...@comcast.net (gina)
>> To:
>>
>> This is true. I have a friend in my writer's group from Canada and the
>> last time she was
>> here in Nashua we had lunch and this was a topic we discussed.
>
> Doesn't sound like a transcript of a discussion, more like a written
> letter. I notice she had no personal negative experiences. Seems to me,
> Canadians posting here in the past were generally quite satisfied with
> their system.
>
> If it were me, think I'd snoop in some Canadian forums, such as:
>
> http://www.healthpost.ca/
>
> http://www.healthtalk.ca,
>
> old, but might be interesting
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0003.gladwellgopnik.html
thanks, will do.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"krw" <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:MPG.224ccff2e...@news.individual.net...
>> On Mar 16, 11:38 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...@att.net> wrote in message
>> >
>> >> news:a3a7b224-db20-4a73-86c0-
>> >
>> >> >Actually, lower income Americans don't pay any taxes, the upper
>> >> >incomes pay most of the tax. People in the lower incomes of less than
>> >> >$30K pay little or no tax. And if they have a family, they may
>> >> >actually get a refund greater than the tax paid due to the earned
>> >> >income credit. Most people pay little or nothing in federal income
>> >> >tax.
>> >>
>> >> rich and
>> >> paying 15%.
>>
>> >15% only applies to the first $22,000. It goes up from there. How do
>> >you expect to pay for all the entitlements and social programs with a
>> >15% tax rate on the few 'filthy rich' ? It's a lot higher than that.
>>
>> Really? What's the long term capital gains rate in the U.S.? What's the
>> tax on
>> dividends? Where do you suppose the "filthy rich" make mnost of their
>> money?
>>
> Why don't you look up what the "filthy rich" (whatever your
> definition) pays in taxes. You'll find it's a lot more than those
> that aren't so "filthy".
i'm pretty sure teddy kennedy has stated that he pays no taxes.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
snip
> If you haven't figured it out yet, the sweet spot in the US is at about
> 100-150k when you factor in all taxes & government subsidies (medical,
> housing, etc) .
until that amt kicks in. they won't keep patching forever.
Anthony Matonak
>> fourth, you reduce all taxes by owning an S-corporation that never
>> makes a profit, but has lots of expenses.
>
> and then wait for the irs to check you out. i'm pretty sure a corporation
> can't just go on never making a profit without the irs wondering.
It wouldn't be unusual for a non-profit. :)
Anthony
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>h wrote:
>
snip
>>The problem is that my income is 100% business profit. I don't have an
>>employer to pay the 7.5% to SS, so I pay the full 15% myself. I've had a
>>CPA do my taxes for years, and he's saved me tons, and of course I
>>itemize. A few years ago I took my taxes to H&R Block to see if they could
>>beat my tax guy, and they missed lots of deductions. I would have been
>>paying at least an extra $500 if I used them. The real problem is I live
>>in NY, and our property/school taxes go up 15-20% a year. Also, since my
>>mortgage is nearly paid off and my rate is low, my interest deduction
>>amounts to very little.
>>
>>
> It appears you are including your SS taxes in that $5k of "Federal Income
> Taxes".
and why shouldn't he? the us.s supreme court has held that fica payments
ARE NOT
insurance payments of any kind and therefore you ARE NOT entitled to ss
checks.
fica payments are nothing more than A TAX ON INCOME. we're just lied to
and
led to believe differently.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
"clams_casino" <PeterG...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
and let's not forget the 401k. that money is deducted from federal taxable
wages and some state taxable wages. usually matched in some way by the
employer, and that money isn't federal taxable either. lower income people
can't afford to put much in those accts.
>
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
<mira...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:51622c6a-4c0d-4358...@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
snip
> Sometimes I wonder when will they start taxing us to use the sidewalk!
here where i live, i have to repair the public sidewalk that runs in front
of my house. so i guess i do sorta get charged to use the sidewalk :)
that means i have to pay so that everyone else can walk on it :)
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <der...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > From: xxxx...@comcast.net (gina)
>> > To:
don't worry mirage. soon you'll be joining the u.s. and mexico in the
north american union. you're getting a new currency, the amero. we'll
take your natural resources and water and mexico's cheap labor. we are
making agreements to swap armies to quell the ensuing mass rioting. all 3
govts are currently in cahoots to get this done. be afraid; be very afraid
:(
h
"Anthony Matonak" <antho...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e91c85$0$24099$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
If you declare a business loss for 3 years in a row, the IRS will declare it
a "hobby" in year 4, and you can no longer deduct your expenses. I know
someone who changes her business name every 3 years so she can always take a
business loss. Eventually this will catch up with her, but she doesn't seem
to care. She actually brags about it and thinks I'm an "idiot" for not doing
the same thing.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
<h> wrote in message news:47e926c2$0$16667$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
i knew that worked that way for real estate, but i wasn't sure about a
business. it'll be easier to catch her now that the irs things are
getting more and more collated. but maybe she's within legal rights. is
there a law against changing your business name?
aemeijers
> <h> wrote in message news:47e926c2$0$16667$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>> "Anthony Matonak" <antho...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:47e91c85$0$24099$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>>> "Bill Bowden" <wronga...@att.net> wrote in message And
>>>
>> If you declare a business loss for 3 years in a row, the IRS will declare
>> it a "hobby" in year 4, and you can no longer deduct your expenses. I know
>> someone who changes her business name every 3 years so she can always take
>> a business loss. Eventually this will catch up with her, but she doesn't
>> seem to care. She actually brags about it and thinks I'm an "idiot" for
>> not doing the same thing.
>
> i knew that worked that way for real estate, but i wasn't sure about a
> business. it'll be easier to catch her now that the irs things are
> getting more and more collated. but maybe she's within legal rights. is
> there a law against changing your business name?
>
>
Oh! oh! I know this one! Case law (as presented back in BizLaw 301 back
in college back in the stone age)- if you just print up new business
cards, and don't go through all the steps of actually shutting down the
old business, and selling the assets to the new business, the IRS says
'B.S.', no actual change has happened, and the Hobby rule still applies.
Same thing for ducking debts by changing company names. The has been a
common small hustler technique for decades- have a deck of different
business cards, and comingle all the assests, and split out the income
how it suits you.
--
aem sends...
Bill Bowden
> "Anthony Matonak" <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:47e91c85$0$24099$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> > AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> >> "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...@att.net> wrote in message And
> >>> fourth, you reduce all taxes by owning an S-corporation that never
> >>> makes a profit, but has lots of expenses.
>
> >> and then wait for the irs to check you out. i'm pretty sure a
> >> corporation can't just go on never making a profit without the irs
> >> wondering.
>
> > It wouldn't be unusual for a non-profit. :)
>
> If you declare a business loss for 3 years in a row, the IRS will declare it
> a "hobby" in year 4, and you can no longer deduct your expenses. I know
> someone who changes her business name every 3 years so she can always take a
> business loss. Eventually this will catch up with her, but she doesn't seem
> to care. She actually brags about it and thinks I'm an "idiot" for not doing
> the same thing.
So, what's wrong with declaring a profit of $10 ?
What profit do I need to not be considered a 'hobbyist' ?
-Bill