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The USA's going bankrupt; China's takeover has just begun

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david_h...@hotmail.com

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Nov 17, 2007, 4:06:07 PM11/17/07
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http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/walker.htm

The government must change how it does business now or the United
States will face a serious fiscal crisis in the future, said David
Walker, Comptroller General of the U.S. Government Accountability
Office (GAO), at the Conference on Public Service & the Law dinner
March 17. He challenged law students to take on the issues faced by
the government by getting involved in public service at some point in
their careers.


"The United States government faces some serious challenges in the
21st century," Walker warned. "Deficits, changing security threats,
demographics, quality-of-life concerns, rapidly evolving technology,
I
can go on and on and on."


Plagued by waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, the government
must
reconsider longstanding policies to sustain its superpower status and
leave the country better positioned for the future. "Washington is
out
of control," Walker asserted, not blaming anyone in particular. "I
mean this on a nonpartisan basis.


"We could eliminate every dime of waste...and this nation would still
have large and growing structural deficits," Walker said. There are
"too many layers, too many players, too many turf battles, and too
many hardened silos."


In order to make the necessary changes, the government needs more
leaders with courage, integrity, creativity, and stewardship and who
are willing to reform entitlement policies, namely Social Security,
Medicare, and Medicaid. The government also needs to re-engineer the
base of spending and re-evaluate tax policies.


The GAO, which provides the fiscal oversight, insight, and foresight
for government initiatives, is at the forefront of making critical
changes to government operations, starting with their own agency. "We
try very much as an institution and I try very much as an individual,
to practice what we preach and to keep in mind that leading by
example
is a powerful, powerful, but simple concept."


Walker was able to turn the GAO from an at-risk agency to a model
agency by being a good leader and adhering to three core values;
accountability, integrity, and reliability. The GAO, for example, is
the only government entity that has changed to a flat, market-based,
skills-, knowledge-, and performance-oriented classification and
compensation system.


The government is operating under policies that were meant for
conditions that existed in the 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, Walker
charged, which hurts government productivity. Once a program or
policy
has been approved, it becomes part of the base set of programs in the
annual budget.


"The base is unaffordable, unsustainable. The base is going to have
to
be dramatically reengineered and GAO is going to be in the forefront
of efforts to analyze what's working, what's not working, and what is
a possible way forward."


In Walker's estimation, the government has specific problem areas
that
must be addressed now. "Number one, a budget deficit. Number two, a
balance of payments deficit, of which the trade deficit is a
subset...
[and] both of those [were] record levels last year. Number three, a
savings deficit. Americans are great at spending, we're poor at
saving...
and then we have, probably the most serious deficit of all and that
is
a leadership deficit. And that is a bipartisan statement," Walker
said.


"Where's the accountability for spending increases and tax cuts that
are unaffordable and unsustainable over time? Where's the
accountability for government programs and tax preferences that
aren't
getting real results? ... Where's the accountability for
congressional
projects, better know as earmarks or pork barrel spending, at a time
of record budget deficits? Where is the outrage about these issues?"


The apathy of citizens will result in record deficits and will affect
generations to come. "When our new grandson was born this afternoon,
he not only got a birth certificate, he received a birth burden of
$156,000. Now I know why he was crying," Walker joked. More and more
of our debt must be financed by foreign nations.


The United States has gone from the largest creditor nation to the
largest debtor nation--and not due to the war on terrorism, Walker
noted. "Of that $760 billion deficit last year, only $100 billion had
anything to do with Iraq, Afghanistan or incremental Homeland
Security
costs," Walker said.


The first baby boomers will reach age 62 in two years, making them
eligible for Social Security. In five years, they will be eligible
for
Medicare, escalating the debt dramatically. The baby boom generation
will not leave the country "better positioned for the future,"
fiscally speaking, Walker said. "We need to get serious soon because
the longer we wait, the more dramatic the changes are going to have
to
be, the more disruptive that they'll be, and the less time that we'll
have to be able to transition to a more positive and sustainable
future."


After Hurricane Andrew, the GAO issued a series of recommendations,
many of which were not adopted but could have been useful for
responders to prepare, respond, and recover before, during, and after
Hurricane Katrina. After Katrina, the GAO again identified areas of
improvement. The national response plan needs clarity, consistency,
and more common sense, Walker said. More training is needed to
mobilize responders in the public, private, and nonprofit sectors.
The
government needs to take a risk- management approach and re-evaluate
whether FEMA even needs to be in the Department of Homeland Security.
Now that rebuilding has begun, tough decisions have to be made, with
the state and local governments taking the lead, Walker said.


The GAO itself has made some tough and unpopular decisions under
Walker's watch, one of which was suing Vice President Dick Cheney. "I
don't like the idea of suing, unless you have to, and I don't
particularly like suing the vice president of the United States. On
the other hand, if we are committed to truth and transparency, if we
believe that anybody who is a public servant is subject to the law
and
that nobody is above the law and the public has a right to know who
met with whom, when, about what, and what did it cost when it deals
with issues as significant as our national energy policy, and if we
were concerned that if we did not act that we were going to face
broad-
based records access problems throughout the entire government, then
under those circumstances, we did what we had to do. We sued." A
district court ultimately dismissed the case, ruling that the GAO
lacked standing to sue.


The GAO chose not to appeal for several reasons; however, the message
got across. The GAO has not had to take any similar action since.


The GAO also acted on the Bush administration's release of government
news stories produced to influence the public on a variety of issues.
Walker said the GAO brought the practice to light because they wanted
citizens to know the government was trying influence them with
"covert
propaganda" financed with their tax money. Congress ultimately
enacted
legislation to stop it.


"I'm a strong believer if you don't learn from history, you're doomed
to repeat it. Unfortunately, I wish we had more Americans that
understood that because in many ways, we're not learning from
history," Walker said. "We have a great country, but we face serious
challenges." We need to address those challenges starting today, he
said, and take steps now to create a better tomorrow.


Blash

unread,
Nov 17, 2007, 4:13:16 PM11/17/07
to
david_h...@hotmail.com wrote on 11/17/07 4:06 PM:

> The government must change how it does business now or the United
> States will face a serious fiscal crisis in the future, said David
> Walker, Comptroller General of the U.S. Government Accountability
> Office (GAO), at the Conference on Public Service & the Law dinner
> March 17.

MARCH 17 ?????
(You're a little behind on your reading......)

Rod Speed

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Nov 17, 2007, 5:33:17 PM11/17/07
to
david_h...@hotmail.com wrote:

> http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/walker.htm

> The government must change how it does business now or the United
> States will face a serious fiscal crisis in the future, said David Walker,
> Comptroller General of the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO),

Just another completely mindless fool.

> at the Conference on Public Service & the Law dinner March 17.
> He challenged law students to take on the issues faced by the government
> by getting involved in public service at some point in their careers.

What a fucking wanker.

> "The United States government faces some serious challenges in the
> 21st century," Walker warned. "Deficits, changing security threats,
> demographics, quality-of-life concerns, rapidly evolving technology,
> I can go on and on and on."

So does any govt, fool.

> Plagued by waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement,

None of that has a damned thing to do with the real fundamental problem, fool.

> the government must reconsider longstanding
> policies to sustain its superpower status

What a fucking wanker.

> and leave the country better positioned for the future. "Washington
> is out of control," Walker asserted, not blaming anyone in particular.
> "I mean this on a nonpartisan basis.

Yeah, you just like the sound of your own voice, fool.

> "We could eliminate every dime of waste...and this nation would
> still have large and growing structural deficits," Walker said.

Yep, that crap isnt the real problem.

> There are "too many layers, too many players, too
> many turf battles, and too many hardened silos."

Nope, too much pissed against the wall in Iraq, actually.

> In order to make the necessary changes, the government needs
> more leaders with courage, integrity, creativity, and stewardship
> and who are willing to reform entitlement policies, namely Social
> Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The government also needs
> to re-engineer the base of spending and re-evaluate tax policies.

Nope, just get out of Iraq and not do any more stupiditys like that.

<reams of mindless irrelevant rabitting on flushed where it belongs>


lubow

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Nov 17, 2007, 9:03:14 PM11/17/07
to
>
> MARCH 17 ?????
> (You're a little behind on your reading......)
>

St. Patty's Day, Mr. Blash.

--
Lubow
To see my stock picks go to www.stockpickr.com Enter lubow in
Portfolio/Stock box


AllEmailDeletedImmediately

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Nov 17, 2007, 11:27:24 PM11/17/07
to
GOING bankrupt? where the hell have you been? we've been bankrupt for
YEARS.


DemoDisk

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Nov 18, 2007, 4:02:31 AM11/18/07
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"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MaP%i.2677$Jy1.2233@trndny02...

> GOING bankrupt? where the hell have you been? we've been bankrupt
for
> YEARS.

Debt is the place to be nowdays. Go into debt if you think you can stay
afloat; pay the debts with cheaper dollars. That's why they always talk
about the price of oil being (until ~recently) no higher than before the
70's. Oil goes up, prices go up, salaries and wages go up, and
everything's the same.

Too bad, though, for people on fixed incomes, and people who built up
savings. They get screwed.

JPM


Rod Speed

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Nov 18, 2007, 3:24:07 AM11/18/07
to
DemoDisk <pac...@nospam.com> wrote
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <der...@hotmail.com> wrote

>> GOING bankrupt? where the hell have you been?
>> we've been bankrupt for YEARS.

Clearly wouldnt know what real bankruptcy was if it bit it on its lard arse.

> Debt is the place to be nowdays. Go into debt if you think you can
> stay afloat; pay the debts with cheaper dollars. That's why they
> always talk about the price of oil being (until ~recently) no higher
> than before the 70's. Oil goes up, prices go up, salaries and wages
> go up, and everything's the same.

> Too bad, though, for people on fixed incomes, and
> people who built up savings. They get screwed.

No they dont, it doesnt affect them much.

And they have seen one hell of a drop in the cost
of what they buy that is now made in china etc too.


Don Klipstein

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Nov 18, 2007, 11:56:43 AM11/18/07
to

Oil goes up bigtime, gasoline goes up bigtime, health insurance goes up
bigtime, milk goes up bigtime, college tuition goes up bigtime, and 80% of
the USA population has income largely limited to the official inflation
rate while the other 20% gets raises big enough to make average income
outpace the official inflation rate by 1.5-2% a year.

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

DemoDisk

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Nov 18, 2007, 6:21:03 PM11/18/07
to

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5qab62F...@mid.individual.net...


How can you say that? If the dollar becomes devalued, savings --
denominated in dollars -- are also devalued. Simple as that. The idea
may seem strange, but that's only because so few in the United States
keep appreciable savings.

Cheap goods from China *have been* a bonanza for most Americans, but
that only works while the dollar is comparatively strong. I've enjoyed
it, but I'm already seeing a change.

And you..?


Rod Speed

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Nov 18, 2007, 6:11:02 PM11/18/07
to
DemoDisk <pac...@nospam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> DemoDisk <pac...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <der...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>> GOING bankrupt? where the hell have you been?
>>>> we've been bankrupt for YEARS.

>> Clearly wouldnt know what real bankruptcy was if it bit it on its lard arse.

>>> Debt is the place to be nowdays. Go into debt if you think
>>> you can stay afloat; pay the debts with cheaper dollars.
>>> That's why they always talk about the price of oil being
>>> (until ~recently) no higher than before the 70's. Oil goes up,
>>> prices go up, salaries and wages go up, and everything's the same.

>>> Too bad, though, for people on fixed incomes, and
>>> people who built up savings. They get screwed.

>> No they dont, it doesnt affect them much.

>> And they have seen one hell of a drop in the cost
>> of what they buy that is now made in china etc too.

> How can you say that?

By looking at whats happened to their savings if they have enough
of a clue to put them where they are protected from inflation.

> If the dollar becomes devalued, savings -- denominated
> in dollars -- are also devalued. Simple as that.

Nope, nothing like as simple as that when they are spent within the country.

And that just happens to be where most savings are actually spent, on real estate etc.

> The idea may seem strange,

Its just plain wrong.

> but that's only because so few in the
> United States keep appreciable savings.

Nope. And that is a mindless myth too, that stupid claim about US savings
doesnt count what savings hordes have in the house they live in etc.

> Cheap goods from China *have been* a bonanza for most Americans,
> but that only works while the dollar is comparatively strong.

Wrong. The yuan is locked to the USD.

> I've enjoyed it, but I'm already seeing a change.

No you arent, because the yuan is locked to the USD.

> And you..?

I see dirt cheap stuff from china every day and buy quite a bit of it too.

And I have always had enough of a clue to keep my savings in investments that
protect them from inflation too. And have done a lot better than inflation too.


Pili

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Nov 18, 2007, 6:54:06 PM11/18/07
to

Going bankrupt by itself doesn't mean you lose stuff.

Your creditors have to come and get it, somehow. Like in court and
then they send a repo man. If you hide your stuff, makes it very hard
for the creditor to get it back.

No court is going to award the US to China in a bankruptcy verdict,
anyways. Even if one did, they'd have to send out the Repo Man.

Pili

William Souden

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Nov 18, 2007, 8:29:15 PM11/18/07
to


This is where Rod screams "bullshit",irrelevant" or goes to the
flushing bot as he can never admit he is wrong.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/07/21/yuan-delta-earnings-cx_ab_0721video1.html

Annalisa Burgos 07.21.05, 10:30 AM ET

In the headlines this morning, the corporate earnings parade marches on.

But first, a stunning development on the international front. After much
pressure and speculation, China has decided to drop its decade-old
policy of linking the value of its currency to the U.S. dollar.
Effective Friday, the yuan will no longer have a fixed rate and instead
will float in the marketplace, meaning it will trade without restrictions.

Rod Speed

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Nov 18, 2007, 8:46:35 PM11/18/07
to

> http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/07/21/yuan-delta-earnings-cx_ab_0721video1.html

> Annalisa Burgos 07.21.05, 10:30 AM ET

> But first, a stunning development on the international front. After


> much pressure and speculation, China has decided to drop its
> decade-old policy of linking the value of its currency to the U.S. dollar. Effective Friday, the yuan will no longer
> have a fixed rate and instead will float in the marketplace, meaning it will trade without
> restrictions.

Pity it didnt actually happen like that, and you're so stupid that
you cant even work out how to check the conversion rate since
that time and work out that it didnt actually happen like that.

William Souden

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Nov 18, 2007, 9:04:46 PM11/18/07
to

Even a welfare dolt should comprehend that a conversion rate does not
mean the currencies are linked. The story clearly said that the yuan was
no longer linked to to the dollar. This means one of the following:

It was relinked.
Forbes lied.
You were wrong and,as always, can not admit it.

Tell us how it "actually happened", welfare boy. Bet your explanation
is limited to the usual childish insults and certainly will not contain
a credible cite.


>
>>>> And you..?
>>> I see dirt cheap stuff from china every day and buy quite a bit of
>>> it too. And I have always had enough of a clue to keep my savings in
>>> investments that protect them from inflation too. And have done a lot better than
>>> inflation too.
>
>

Rod's protection from inflation is the cost of living increases in
his welfare stipend.

Rod Speed

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Nov 18, 2007, 10:00:51 PM11/18/07
to

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a clue about anything at all, ever
and why you ended up as a race course bum.

> The story clearly said that the yuan was no longer linked to to the dollar.

And even someone as stupid as you should be able to use google
and find plenty of demands that the yuan be floated since that time,
so its just a tad unlikely that it isnt locked NOW, fuckwit.

<reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit your
way out of your predicament flushed where it belongs>


William Souden

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Nov 18, 2007, 10:25:15 PM11/18/07
to

"Race course bum"? Oh, I mentioned i go to the track. You should go
there, Rod, it is the only place I enjoy being around clueless people.
What happened, welfare boy" went once and blew your welfare
check?Threw a tantrum when the numbers on the tv sets and the PPs made
no sense to you? Lost money and decided it was fixed?


>
>> The story clearly said that the yuan was no longer linked to to the dollar.
>
> And even someone as stupid as you should be able to use google
> and find plenty of demands that the yuan be floated since that time,
> so its just a tad unlikely that it isnt locked NOW, fuckwit.

Which explains why you could not find such a link.


>
> <reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit your
> way out of your predicament flushed where it belongs>
>
>

Thanks for proving my prediction about the type of reply you would post.

adam russell

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Nov 19, 2007, 11:33:07 AM11/19/07
to
In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt and it resulted in them
being broken up into pieces. Perhaps many US states will decide they are
better off without the federal government sucking up resources.


Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 11:53:10 AM11/19/07
to
On Nov 19, 11:33 am, "adam russell"

America as it was known is fucked. corruption caused it.
LOL, now try to get all them invests back from china, unusual because
corporated america is owed
by china while american, loser, rightwing nut gov't owes china
trillions.
BTW, this is how your loser nation ends up paying $500 a barrel for
oil.

Don S

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 12:00:52 PM11/19/07
to
adam russell wrote:

You idiot, that was tried a while back, it was called the CIVIL WAR and
a lot of people died for no good reason. So before you start another
one I would suggest that you inspect you thought process by opening
your head and removing your brain for a visual inspection, use a shotgun
its quicker.

Rod Speed

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Nov 19, 2007, 1:20:10 PM11/19/07
to
adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt

Nope.

> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.

Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.

> Perhaps many US states will decide they are better off without the federal government sucking up resources.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant drug crazed fantasys.


William Souden

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Nov 19, 2007, 1:31:38 PM11/19/07
to
Rod Speed wrote:
> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt
>
> Nope.
>
>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.
>
> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.

You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they always
wanted to but were not able to.

Rod Speed

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 2:35:31 PM11/19/07
to
William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote
>> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

>>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt

>> Nope.

>>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.

>> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.

> You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
> suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they always wanted to but were not able to.

Irrelevant to why other parts like the ukraine and georgia etc chose to leave.

William Souden

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 2:40:56 PM11/19/07
to
Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt
>
>>> Nope.
>
>>>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.
>
>>> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.
>
>> You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
>> suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they always wanted to but were not able to.
>
> Irrelevant to why other parts like the ukraine and georgia etc chose to leave.

You seem to think the republics could have broken away at any time.

Rod Speed

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 3:23:08 PM11/19/07
to
William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

>>>>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt

>>>> Nope.

>>>>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.

>>>> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.

>>> You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
>>> suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they
>>> always wanted to but were not able to.

>> Irrelevant to why other parts like the ukraine and georgia etc chose to leave.

> You seem to think the republics could have broken away at any time.

Nope, that at one time some like the ukraine could see real advantages
in being part of the USSR and when that collapsed, those had gone.

Nothing to do with bankruptcy at all.

Even with places like Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia etc, it still had nothing
to do with bankruptcy, everything to do with Gorby deciding that it wasnt
worth the hassle of trying to keep them under the jackboot etc.

No different to the colonys of western countrys deciding that they
wanted to go their own way and tell the colonial power to piss off etc.

To start with, that required kicking the colonial power out, but eventually
the colonial power just decided that the writing was on the wall and left
with as much grace as it could muster with the last of them to leave.

ulti...@hotmail.com

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Nov 19, 2007, 3:31:02 PM11/19/07
to
On Nov 17, 1:06 pm, david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote:

NO! The gov't "reformed" welfare, and turned it into a criminal joke
of a system, instead of being merely bad and rather pathetic compared
to the rest of the western "industrialized" nations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act
(don't let the name fool you)

What we need to do is to stop throwing endless amounts of money into
the so called department of "defense", shut down corrupt, blank check
agencies such as the CIA, stop the insane "war on drugs", and stop
giving politicos all of the fancy perks they enjoy on tax payer
dollars such as private jets and fancy hotel rooms. I am sick of this
balancing the budget on the backs of the poor bullshit. If we need to
trim the budget, start with the useless, destructive bloat at the TOP

William Souden

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Nov 19, 2007, 3:50:00 PM11/19/07
to
Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt
>
>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.
>
>>>>> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being part of the USSR anymore.
>
>>>> You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
>>>> suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they
>>>> always wanted to but were not able to.
>
>>> Irrelevant to why other parts like the ukraine and georgia etc chose to leave.
>
>> You seem to think the republics could have broken away at any time.
>
> Nope, that at one time some like the ukraine could see real advantages
> in being part of the USSR and when that collapsed, those had gone.


The Soviet constitution guaranteed each constituent republic the right
to secede. The borders were even drawn do no republic was surrounded by
other republics. In fact, that guarantee was meaningless.
By the way, still waiting for you to post one of those links that you
told us any fool could find showing that after the yuan was unlinked
from the dollar in 2005 it was later relinked.

Rod Speed

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Nov 19, 2007, 3:50:18 PM11/19/07
to

Do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin, child.


Rod Speed

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 3:54:03 PM11/19/07
to
William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> adam russell <adamr...@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

>>>>>>> In the 80's the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt

>>>>>> Nope.

>>>>>>> and it resulted in them being broken up into pieces.

>>>>>> Nope. The pieces decided that they werent interested in being
>>>>>> part of the USSR anymore.

>>>>> You really think they, especially Latvia,Lithuania and Estonia
>>>>> suddenly decided to break away in the earl 90's?. In fact, they
>>>>> always wanted to but were not able to.

>>>> Irrelevant to why other parts like the ukraine and georgia etc chose to leave.

>>> You seem to think the republics could have broken away at any time.

>> Nope, that at one time some like the ukraine could see real advantages in being part of the USSR and when that
>> collapsed, those had gone.

> The Soviet constitution guaranteed each constituent republic the right to secede.

It also guaranteed all sorts of other rights as well.

Fat lot of good that ever did when arseholes like Stalin chose to execute the individuals involved.

> The borders were even drawn do no republic was surrounded by other republics. In fact, that guarantee was meaningless.

Irrelevant to what happened when the USSR passed its useby date.

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