My prognosis... what is real 'value' and what drives recovery
phil scott
we are habituated to think in terms of money, currency.. denominated
value..and for good reason, its all we have to trade with..so we get
value confused with these denominations.... and we are forced to
trade and do business in these denominations...
so we say things like 'what is the value of a stock' and we mean in
terms of the bogus currency.
its difficult to even frame real value in this situation... and yes
real value will indeed tank as an economy dependent on currency goes
into collapse... no business.... the factory is not just worthless it
becomes a liability.
We have seen a spectacular solution though in Brazil recently... as
factorys were closing the employees offered to take them over... they
did...and with the rip off management gone, and able to barter for
wages and goods etc... brazil recovered... someone posted links to
that last week.
which takes us to the issue of what IS real value:
For an individual it is his skill set, intelligence and discipline in
taking care of his base of production..his brain and body..his
health...and living in a way that he cant be taxed to total ruins by a
desperate and collapsing govt.... that is not to say the approach
is a cake walk. it isnt. it requires brains, and working...smart
working..not for a starvation wage paid by some slug who refuses to
work.
those willing to work can make it in a culture with a built up
infrastructure such as our own, not in the cities necessarily, but
they sure can in the smaller towns.....
taking a look at the net real tax base...its well over 80% in the USA
on the middle class...did you know that?
of course not, we are told its 15% state 20% federal... after lying
and fudging the tax is only half that, or less.....
sorry....bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.... incorrecto.
You are paying 5x for food, medical care, gas, and services in the US
as compared to less governed countries because we *all pay taxes..and
hidden taxes, that drives all prices to these certifiably higher
figures...a plumber charging you 80 dollars an hour would be 20
dollars without his need to pay his doctor 500 dollars an hour...
these costs compound,
driving these prices at the base is govt bloat and a corrupt finanical
over class.... when that evaporates as it did in Brasil, there is a
massive resurgence....but only after govt collapses, dissapears by 80%
or more....and ceases its blood sucking....
(the nation has lost is premier condition as the worlds only large
scale industrial manufacturer..that bailed us out of the great
depression (and war to ignite it)....thats vastly diminished now, and
the rest of the world is now our industrialized competition.)....
No nation in the history of the earth has ever done anything but age
(260 years for most give or take just a few years) go corrupt, start
wars in an attempt to survive, then get counter attacked... then
die. Not a single exception... they reboot a generation or two
later in many cases though... whole different set of rules.
the reboot lasts about 260 years.... the USA is headed into its crash/
burn and reboot cycle...
However, given our killer infrastructure it should not take the
historic usual generation or two of starvation to dig out... I predict
maybe 5 years of tough times (but fed well because of our factory
farms)... then only 10 to 20 years to restablish a somewhat lush
economy... not bad.. except for the lowest economic class, those are
always screwed regardless.. a natural phenomena...some are simply
unable..or abused to oblivion etc.
Recent precidents are the rebooted USSR, that went fast even with less
infrastructure than we have in the US..and japan..with killer
industrial infrastructure but need to import raw materials, fuel and
food massively..still their reboot while 10 years under way, has not
led to total ruin.
Phil scott
Rod Speed
> we are habituated to think in terms of money, currency.. denominated
> value..and for good reason, its all we have to trade with..
No it isnt. Plenty have done swaps for millennia and some still do.
> so we get value confused with these denominations....
Nope.
> and we are forced to trade and do business in these denominations...
> so we say things like 'what is the value of a stock'
> and we mean in terms of the bogus currency.
Easy to toss in the word bogus.
> its difficult to even frame real value in this situation... and yes real value
> will indeed tank as an economy dependent on currency goes into collapse...
> no business.... the factory is not just worthless it becomes a liability.
More mindless silly stuff.
> We have seen a spectacular solution though in Brazil recently...
> as factorys were closing the employees offered to take them over...
They didnt offer, they just did it.
> they did...and with the rip off management gone, and able
> to barter for wages and goods etc... brazil recovered...
That wasnt the reason brazil recovered.
> someone posted links to that last week.
> which takes us to the issue of what IS real value:
No such animal.
> For an individual it is his skill set, intelligence and discipline
> in taking care of his base of production..his brain and body..
> his health...and living in a way that he cant be taxed to total
> ruins by a desperate and collapsing govt....
The alternate govts are actually proposing tax CUTS.
> that is not to say the approach is a cake walk. it isnt.
> it requires brains, and working...smart working..
And isnt even possible for most.
> not for a starvation wage paid by some slug who refuses to work.
Many who need your services wont have anything to pay for them with, even by barter.
> those willing to work can make it in a culture with a built up infrastructure such
> as our own, not in the cities necessarily, but they sure can in the smaller towns.....
Until even those end up in very deep shit and have to do without your services.
> taking a look at the net real tax base...its well over 80%
> in the USA on the middle class...did you know that?
Depends entirely on what you call the middle class. Thats a bare faced lie with the real middle class.
> of course not, we are told its 15% state 20% federal...
> after lying and fudging the tax is only half that, or less.....
> sorry....bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.... incorrecto.
Yours is the bare faced lie.
> You are paying 5x for food, medical care, gas, and
> services in the US as compared to less governed countries
There's fuck all of those, and not one modern first or second world country.
> because we *all pay taxes..and hidden taxes, that drives all
> prices to these certifiably higher figures...a plumber charging
> you 80 dollars an hour would be 20 dollars without his need
> to pay his doctor 500 dollars an hour... these costs compound,
Many doctors get paid less than many plumbers per hour.
> driving these prices at the base is govt bloat
Corse there is never any bloat in the private sector, eh ?
> and a corrupt finanical over class.... when that evaporates as it did in Brasil,
No it didnt.
> there is a massive resurgence....
No there wasnt.
> but only after govt collapses, dissapears by 80% or more....
Didnt happen.
> and ceases its blood sucking....
And that in spades.
> (the nation has lost is premier condition as the worlds only large scale industrial manufacturer..
That was never ever the case.
> that bailed us out of the great depression
No it didnt.
> (and war to ignite it)....thats vastly diminished now,
No it isnt. Its still true of PC software, movies, TV programs, music etc etc etc.
> and the rest of the world is now our industrialized competition.)....
It always was. Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed where the industrial revolution happened.
Thats what paid for much of the industrialization of the US initially.
> No nation in the history of the earth has ever done anything
> but age (260 years for most give or take just a few years)
More than just a few years.
> go corrupt, start wars in an attempt to survive, then get counter attacked... then die.
Plenty have just faded away.
> Not a single exception...
Pig ignorant lie.
> they reboot a generation or two later in many cases though... whole different set of rules.
> the reboot lasts about 260 years.... the USA is headed into its crash/burn and reboot cycle...
Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
The same stupid claim was made during the great depression too,
and the US went on to completely dominate the world after that.
Plenty of those making that stupid claim themselves imploded
very spectacularly indeed, and had to be bailed out by the US too.
> However, given our killer infrastructure it should not take
> the historic usual generation or two of starvation to dig out...
That hardly ever happened.
> I predict maybe 5 years of tough times (but fed well because of our factory
> farms)... then only 10 to 20 years to restablish a somewhat lush economy...
Bet ti wont take anything like that.
> not bad.. except for the lowest economic class, those are always screwed regardless..
Wrong again now that we invented welfare.
> a natural phenomena...some are simply unable..or abused to oblivion etc.
And some just chose to hang themselves etc.
> Recent precidents are the rebooted USSR, that went fast even with
> less infrastructure than we have in the US..and japan..with killer industrial
> infrastructure but need to import raw materials, fuel and food massively..
> still their reboot while 10 years under way, has not led to total ruin.
No one ever saw total ruin, even Rome didnt.
Tony
society and economies are fucking immigrants. You don't have to look
farther than the country i live in ... CanaDUH. We were once third in the
entire world in productivity now we rank near dead last with pakistan and
india. Why because Trudeau opened the floodgates to these bastards who
destroyed my country. Similarly this has happened to America but to a
lesser extent as they took in less fucking immigrants so their
productivity is still relatively high. America's only hope is to deport
all immigrants or anything that looks like an immigrant. An immigrant has
inborn traits that makes them lazy, lying, leadweight maggots.
phil scott wrote:
--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
No, I just decided not to play your silly game is all. *Some* of us know
proper manners
Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
phil scott
>
> - Show quoted text -
there are several factors.... it is true that an inrush of cheap slave
labor from undeveloped countries, along with wars etc mark the end
phase in any national life cycle... thats because bloat of govt has
over taxed the native people into non breeding status, and to fund
govt, fuel the economy slave labor is needed...a degradation of the
culture however.
Here is a brief notion on the source of another perhaps over riding
factor...
" The origins of paper money can be traced to receipts that goldsmiths
provided to their customers, who would leave their gold with a
goldsmith for safekeeping. Centuries ago goldsmiths began giving out
receipts for the gold that they safeguarded, and people soon learned
that the receipts were more useful for business transactions than
heavy amounts of gold. Some enterprising goldsmith figured out that it
was not necessary to maintain a supply of gold equal to all the
receipts issued, because all the customers would never come to claim
their gold at the same time. Because large amounts of gold weren't
necessary to ensure the utility of receipts, the goldsmith was able to
issue many times as many receipts as he had gold in his vault, and the
fractional reserve system was born. Since goldsmiths began to loan
gold and receipts at interest, the system of "debt money" was born in
which customers had to pay back more money (receipts) than were in
circulationthus ensuring that the community as a whole would always
be in debt to the goldsmith.
end quote
the goldsmith was the original Rothchild...now owning most of the
worlds wealth by proxy.. gates and buffet not even in the running.
Phil scott
Rod Speed
> So shall it be written in the history books the downfall of
> todays' society and economies are fucking immigrants.
What about the immigrants that dont fuck much ?
> You don't have to look
> farther than the country i live in ... CanaDUH. We were once third in
> the entire world in productivity now we rank near dead last with
> pakistan and india. Why because Trudeau opened the floodgates to
> these bastards who destroyed my country. Similarly this has happened
> to America but to a lesser extent as they took in less fucking
> immigrants so their productivity is still relatively high. America's
> only hope is to deport all immigrants or anything that looks like an
> immigrant. An immigrant has inborn traits that makes them lazy,
> lying, leadweight maggots.
Corse there isnt even a single immigrant in your family tree, eh ?
Rod Speed
> there are several factors.... it is true that an inrush of cheap
> slave labor from undeveloped countries, along with wars etc
> mark the end phase in any national life cycle...
Corse there was never any of that in the 18th and 19th century to america, eh ?
Didnt realise that that was the end phase of america, silly me.
> thats because bloat of govt has over taxed the native people
> into non breeding status, and to fund govt, fuel the economy
> slave labor is needed...a degradation of the culture however.
You one of those red indians that changed your name to that of a white man, tonto ?
> Here is a brief notion on the source of another perhaps over riding factor...
<reams of even sillier shit flushed where it belongs>
Tony
from Canada as far back as records are kept. I'm not really Italian but i
have to use an Italian name to sell more Deli Sandwiches.
Rod Speed wrote:
--
Rod Speed
> Yes i can honestly say on both sides of my family all my
> descendants were from Canada as far back as records are kept.
There might just have been canadians around before any records were kept.
Bet they werent in your family tree.
> I'm not really Italian but i have to use an Italian name to sell more Deli Sandwiches.
Something brought to Canada by immigrants. Funny that.
Lou
"Tony" <To...@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote in message
news:48F3F70E...@TheDeli.Sandwich...
> So shall it be written in the history books the downfall of todays'
> society and economies are fucking immigrants. You don't have to look
> farther than the country i live in ... CanaDUH. We were once third in the
> entire world in productivity now we rank near dead last with pakistan and
> india. Why because Trudeau opened the floodgates to these bastards who
> destroyed my country. Similarly this has happened to America but to a
> lesser extent as they took in less fucking immigrants so their
> productivity is still relatively high. America's only hope is to deport
> all immigrants or anything that looks like an immigrant. An immigrant has
> inborn traits that makes them lazy, lying, leadweight maggots.
Hmm, with a name like "Tony" and drawing on classic sterotypes, you must be
Italian. I trust you'll be first on the boat to return to your ancestral
country.