Why I hate Washington Mutual (a rant)
The Real Bev
that in the account, but they refused to give me the cash, instead offering
a cashier's check. I took it to Bank of America, where I had considerably
less than that in my checking account. BofA cheerfully cashed the check.
2. As a result, a few months later I went to the closest branch to close
one of the accounts. After half an hour they said they were having trouble
getting our signature card faxed over from the main local branch. An hour
later they got the signatures and closed our account.
3. A month or so after that I went to the main local branch, figuring that
they wouldn't have to fax anything anywhere. After half an hour they said
they had looked everywhere but couldn't find my signature card. I asked
what else they could do. They said I could show them my driver's license.
AARRGGHH.
4. I recently inherited a couple of WaMu accounts, for which I needed to
order checks. I spent an hour in the branch (they have guard-operated
double doors now, possibly with poison gas available Just In Case) watching
the bankdroid order checks and verify the new statement address. The checks
were supposed to arrive within 7-10 working days.
Here it is two months later. No checks. Statements still forwarded from
the old address. I went back into the branch where I ordered the checks.
They had no record of the order. Moreover, they didn't seem at all
concerned that A F*CKING BANK TRANSACTION HAD SIMPLY EVAPORATED. They
rush-ordered more checks, waived the fee ($20 for 150 checks is ridiculous)
and said they'd call me when they arrived at the bank (I figured that was a
more reliable address than mine).
At no time during any of these transactions did a single bank employee offer
an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts. When I
close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell them
anyway. Loudly.
--
Cheers,
Bev
===========================================================
"You should be glad that bridge fell down -- I was planning
to build thirteen more to the same design."
-- Attributed to I.K. Brunel, addressing the
Directors of the Great Western Railway
Rick
>
> 1. About 12 years ago I needed to withdraw $30K in cash. I had more than
> that in the account, but they refused to give me the cash, instead offering
> a cashier's check. I took it to Bank of America, where I had considerably
> less than that in my checking account. BofA cheerfully cashed the check.
In *cash*? Like dollar bills? If you had asked, you may have found out
that for any withdrawal in cash over a limit that the banks sets, they
need so many days advance notice to order extra money in from the
Federal Reserve bank to accommodate such a request. It is *highly*
unusual for a bank customer to request a pay out in cash dollars of
$30,000.00 - for what should be some very obvious reasons. And no, they
don't keep piles and piles of cash just sitting around in banks. They
order it in as needed, in as small amounts as reasonably possible for
normal day-to-day operations. And they get rid of any excess amounts as
quickly as possible as well. Different banks, and even branches within
the same banks, may have different maximum cash amounts they can or will
pay out without advance notice, depending on the customer traffic at
that bank or branch.
> 2. As a result, a few months later I went to the closest branch to close
> one of the accounts. After half an hour they said they were having trouble
> getting our signature card faxed over from the main local branch. An hour
> later they got the signatures and closed our account.
>
> 3. A month or so after that I went to the main local branch, figuring that
> they wouldn't have to fax anything anywhere. After half an hour they said
> they had looked everywhere but couldn't find my signature card. I asked
> what else they could do. They said I could show them my driver's license.
> AARRGGHH.
And providing proof of who you were... Somehow that was a problem?
> 4. I recently inherited a couple of WaMu accounts, for which I needed to
> order checks. I spent an hour in the branch (they have guard-operated
> double doors now, possibly with poison gas available Just In Case) watching
> the bankdroid order checks and verify the new statement address. The checks
> were supposed to arrive within 7-10 working days.
>
> Here it is two months later. No checks. Statements still forwarded from
> the old address. I went back into the branch where I ordered the checks.
> They had no record of the order. Moreover, they didn't seem at all
> concerned that A F*CKING BANK TRANSACTION HAD SIMPLY EVAPORATED. They
> rush-ordered more checks, waived the fee ($20 for 150 checks is ridiculous)
> and said they'd call me when they arrived at the bank (I figured that was a
> more reliable address than mine).
Look, it happens. They didn't lose a transaction. "They" - and "they"
could be a bank employee, a post office employee or the place that
prints the checks - lost a check order request. It wasn't a transaction.
You didn't lose any money.
> At no time during any of these transactions did a single bank employee offer
> an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts. When I
> close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell them
> anyway. Loudly.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bev
You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
of cash to you. They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
Rick
Logan Shaw
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> 3. A month or so after that I went to the main local branch, figuring that
>> they wouldn't have to fax anything anywhere. After half an hour they said
>> they had looked everywhere but couldn't find my signature card. I asked
>> what else they could do. They said I could show them my driver's license.
>> AARRGGHH.
>
> And providing proof of who you were... Somehow that was a problem?
I think the problem was that they went through a whole bunch of complex
rigamarole for 30 minutes when they could have just asked for a driver's
license and had the problem solved in 30 seconds. Given that they did
this twice, and at two different branches, it almost sounds as if they
went to special training to learn how to be incompetent time-wasters.
- Logan
pj
paying much at all on their money market accounts so I moved my MM to
another bank to get a better rate, but otherwise, I've been very happy with
WaMu.
The people I dealt with always gave me very good service.
I have my mortgage with them and they offered me a free refinance (no
closing costs) at a lower rate than they were already charging me. I had no
plans to refinance, but they asked if I wanted to and I took them up on it.
No cost, lower rate, a no brainer. I opted for a payment schedule that
would get it paid off earlier than the old mortgage, but that was my choice.
I also think you are expecting a whole lot by trying to withdraw $30k in
cash without notice. Was this at a smaller branch?
I never buy replacement checks from the institution, they charge way too
much. I buy my replacement checks from a 3rd party check printer - never
had a problem.
"The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%tvpi.40$EG...@newsfe04.lga...
SpammersDie
> offer an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts.
> When I close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell
> them anyway. Loudly.
If your only relationship with WAMU was their checking accounts, they didn't
owe you any favor for having them and they'll be happy you're leaving.
Checking accounts are just offered as bait in the hopes you'll get a loan or
credit card with the bank (or at least generate lots of overwithdrawal fee
revenue.) If you didn't have any of those, you were as welcome as a shopper
who keeps eating free samples without ever buying.
Gary Heston
>> 4. I recently inherited a couple of WaMu accounts, for which I needed to
>> order checks. I spent an hour in the branch (they have guard-operated
>> double doors now, possibly with poison gas available Just In Case) watching
>> the bankdroid order checks and verify the new statement address. The checks
>> were supposed to arrive within 7-10 working days.
>> Here it is two months later. No checks. Statements still forwarded from
>> the old address. I went back into the branch where I ordered the checks.
>> They had no record of the order. Moreover, they didn't seem at all
>> concerned that A F*CKING BANK TRANSACTION HAD SIMPLY EVAPORATED. They
>> rush-ordered more checks, waived the fee ($20 for 150 checks is ridiculous)
>> and said they'd call me when they arrived at the bank (I figured that was a
>> more reliable address than mine).
http://www.checksunlimited.com
That's where I've been getting my checks for years; highly recommended.
Great service, and lots of designs if you're interested.
>Look, it happens. They didn't lose a transaction. "They" - and "they"
>could be a bank employee, a post office employee or the place that
>prints the checks - lost a check order request. It wasn't a transaction.
>You didn't lose any money.
Really? What do you call the $20 for the original batch of checks, if it
wasn't a transaction?
And it _had_ to be someone at the bank who lost it--anyone else, and the
bank would have had a record of the order.
>> At no time during any of these transactions did a single bank employee offer
>> an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts. When I
>> close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell them
>> anyway. Loudly.
Send the president of the bank a letter. Verbal complaints to the droids
behind the teller window won't go any further.
>You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
>sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
>or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
>of cash to you.
For a transaction over $10,000, they have to do paperwork. They probably
didn't want to. The probability that they didn't have it is near zero.
They failed to provide a reasonable service to a customer.
> They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
>know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
If anyone else lost it, the bank would have had the record of it--the
bank most definantly lost it.
Gary
--
Gary Heston ghe...@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
Yoko Onos' former driver tried to extort $2M from her, threating to
"release embarassing recordings...". What, he has a copy of her album?
Rick
>
> >You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
> >sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
> >or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
> >of cash to you. They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
> >know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
>
> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
Me too. And the policy at my bank was if a customer wanted over
$10,000.00 in cash in a single withdrawal the bank required 3 days
advance notice. If we had it on hand that wasn't a problem. But the head
teller wasn't about to wipe out a huge percentage of small bills on hand
to accomodate a single customer to the detriment of all the other
customers - including keeping the ATM at the branch loaded. The amount
in real numbers of cash exchanged back and forth versus checks deposited
and account to account transfers was relatively small and got even
smaller once debit cards for accounts were introduced. But like I said,
different banks have different policies and different levels of hard
currency cash flow.
Rick
Sharon
>>You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
>>sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
>>or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
>>of cash to you. They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
>>know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
>
> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
Honest question, why would an individual need $30,000 in cash, as opposed to a
cashier's check? I'm curious. I've needed to withdraw that much or more a few
times, generally downpayments for real estate, but I've always been happy with
cashier's checks. (Although a wheelbarrow full of cash would be fun...)
--
- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"
Chloe
news:RBCFAp...@eisner.encompasserve.org...
I have to admit, I wondered the same thing (at least as far as a legal
transaction goes <g>). It does seem like an unusual enough request that I
wouldn't be surprised if a bank branch couldn't (or wouldn't) immediately
accommodate it. I'd probably phone first if I really wanted to avoid a
hassle.
That said, I've read enough ugly customer stories about WaMu that I'd
personally avoid banking with them.
I ordered checks from my bank a couple years ago and they never arrived. The
bank closed the account and opened a new one. They claimed that most of the
time when checks never show up they've been stolen from the mail system,
including from the customer's mailbox. As a heads-up (and I have no idea if
this is accurate), the manager told me mailbox thefts are a major cause of
identity theft, too.
Rod Speed
William Souden
exceeding $10,000.
By the way, some people were making multiple payments for new cars
over several days to avoid the requirement but the Treasury Department
said it was to be considered part of the same transaction.
Dennis
My guess is a blackmail payment to avoid publishing of embarassing
photos of Real Bev in her turquoise suede go-go boots.
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
Dennis
>I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
I once tried to get US$10,000 cash from my account at the local BOA
branch. They couldn't give it to me and I had to settle for a
cashier's check. Lame.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
George Grapman
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:06:24 -0700, Abe <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
>
> I once tried to get US$10,000 cash from my account at the local BOA
> branch. They couldn't give it to me and I had to settle for a
> cashier's check. Lame.
>
> Dennis (evil)
This reminds me of a time I was in Reno. A race book was having a
handicapping contest. The winner got something like $10,000 and
immediately bought a round of drinks for every one in the room.
They wanted to give him a check but he insisted on cash saying that he
had pain his entry with cash ans wanted cash back. It took about ten
minutes with various execs talking to him before he agreed to a
compromise-cash but an armed security guard has to escort him to his car
in the casino garage.
Once I was at the track and a mother/son won an Pick 6 for something
like $25,000. In those cases the IRS immediately grabs 20 percent and
toy work it out the following April. They were debating cash or check.
The son kept insisting on a check for safety while the mother kept
talking about the $10,000 reporting requirement. He finally convinced
her that IRS would know either way and would deduct a cut so they opted
for a check.
George Grapman
Usene...@the-domain-in.sig
sou...@nospam.com says...
> >> Honest question, why would an individual need $30,000 in cash,
> >> as opposed to a cashier's check? I'm curious. I've needed to
> >> withdraw that much or more a few times, generally downpayments
> >> for real estate, but I've always been happy with cashier's checks.
> >> (Although a wheelbarrow full of cash would be fun...)
> > The drug barons prefer cash.
> And financial companies are required to report cash transactions
> exceeding $10,000.
My understanding is that somebody at the bank is required to fill
out a form, and then it is just kept on file there. That is in
case there is a subsequent investigation. It only gets sent in
to the gubmint if there are reasons to for suspicion beyond the
amount.
If you withdraw lots of cash because you buy expensive business
equipment or cars at auctions, that is OK. Or if you deposit
lots of cash because you own a supermarket, that is also OK.
But, if you do it frequently (especially depositing), and don't
seem to have a good excuse, the bank will be more likely to
actually send in the report. Or if your pattern changes. Or if
it is a business account which employee or company officer might
be misusing.
> By the way, some people were making multiple payments for new cars
> over several days to avoid the requirement but the Treasury Department
> said it was to be considered part of the same transaction.
It is called, "structuring." Although it is a bit of a grey area
as to how much separation you are supposed to have between
transactions, in order to avoid the accusation.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
William Souden
The Real Bev
> The Real Bev wrote:
...
>> 4. I recently inherited a couple of WaMu accounts, for which I needed to
>> order checks. I spent an hour in the branch (they have guard-operated
>> double doors now, possibly with poison gas available Just In Case) watching
>> the bankdroid order checks and verify the new statement address. The checks
>> were supposed to arrive within 7-10 working days.
>>
>> Here it is two months later. No checks. Statements still forwarded from
>> the old address. I went back into the branch where I ordered the checks.
>> They had no record of the order. Moreover, they didn't seem at all
>> concerned that A F*CKING BANK TRANSACTION HAD SIMPLY EVAPORATED. They
>> rush-ordered more checks, waived the fee ($20 for 150 checks is ridiculous)
>> and said they'd call me when they arrived at the bank (I figured that was a
>> more reliable address than mine).
>
> Look, it happens. They didn't lose a transaction. "They" - and "they"
> could be a bank employee, a post office employee or the place that
> prints the checks - lost a check order request. It wasn't a transaction.
> You didn't lose any money.
I have two bills to pay and one check. I ordered new checks two months ago.
>> At no time during any of these transactions did a single bank employee offer
>> an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts. When I
>> close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell them
>> anyway. Loudly.
>
> You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
> sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
> or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
> of cash to you.
I know about cash limits/advance notice/etc. The fact that they wouldn't
give me my own money while the BofA cashed THEIR check means that there's no
reason to maintain the WaMu account (which I was perfectly happy with when
it was Great Western). You're telling me that a bank in a city the size of
Pasadena doesn't have $30K cash on hand or doesn't trust somebody who's had
two $big accounts for 20 years? Bollocks!
> They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
> know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
If it doesn't show up in the bank's computer when I have the branch manager
conducting the search, I'm pretty sure that it's the bank's problem. No
bank should ever lose ANYTHING. Ever. Period.
--
Cheers, Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The early bird gets the worm, the second mouse gets the cheese.
The Real Bev
Exactly. "Terribly sorry to have to tell you that you passed the test,
better luck next time."
The Real Bev
> On the other hand, I've had very good experiences with WaMu. They weren't
> paying much at all on their money market accounts so I moved my MM to
> another bank to get a better rate, but otherwise, I've been very happy with
> WaMu.
> The people I dealt with always gave me very good service.
>
> I have my mortgage with them and they offered me a free refinance (no
> closing costs) at a lower rate than they were already charging me. I had no
> plans to refinance, but they asked if I wanted to and I took them up on it.
> No cost, lower rate, a no brainer. I opted for a payment schedule that
> would get it paid off earlier than the old mortgage, but that was my choice.
> I also think you are expecting a whole lot by trying to withdraw $30k in
> cash without notice. Was this at a smaller branch?
Main branch in Pasadena, the one where we established the accounts when it
was Great Western because they paid more interest at the time.
> I never buy replacement checks from the institution, they charge way too
> much. I buy my replacement checks from a 3rd party check printer - never
> had a problem.
Yes. Me too. My current BofA checks may last a lifetime what with on-line
bill-paying. I don't expect to use the 150 that I just got.
> "The Real Bev" <bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 4. I recently inherited a couple of WaMu accounts, for which I needed to
>> order checks. I spent an hour in the branch (they have guard-operated
>> double doors now, possibly with poison gas available Just In Case)
>> watching the bankdroid order checks and verify the new statement address.
>> The checks were supposed to arrive within 7-10 working days.
>>
>> Here it is two months later. No checks. Statements still forwarded from
>> the old address. I went back into the branch where I ordered the checks.
>> They had no record of the order. Moreover, they didn't seem at all
>> concerned that A F*CKING BANK TRANSACTION HAD SIMPLY EVAPORATED. They
>> rush-ordered more checks, waived the fee ($20 for 150 checks is
>> ridiculous) and said they'd call me when they arrived at the bank (I
>> figured that was a more reliable address than mine).
They promised Friday. They called me today (Saturday) and I picked up the
checks. Half credit because of the tardiness and the fact that I had to
wait in line again.
The Real Bev
>> At no time during any of these transactions did a single bank employee
>> offer an apology. Nobody wondered why I was closing out my accounts.
>> When I close these accounts I bet nobody will ask why. I'm going to tell
>> them anyway. Loudly.
>
> If your only relationship with WAMU was their checking accounts, they didn't
> owe you any favor for having them and they'll be happy you're leaving.
They were my mom's accounts and she'd had them for many years. One was a
money market account and the other was an interest checking account.
Originally I ordered checks for both accounts. The accounts we closed had
been earning lousy interest for quite a while, but that was the last straw.
> Checking accounts are just offered as bait in the hopes you'll get a loan or
> credit card with the bank (or at least generate lots of overwithdrawal fee
> revenue.) If you didn't have any of those, you were as welcome as a shopper
> who keeps eating free samples without ever buying.
Doesn't matter. Nobody twisted their arm or made them an offer they
couldn't refuse. If they offer a service they can't do it cheesily just
because you don't pay for other services. Well, yeah, I guess they can...
The Real Bev
I was told that cash was essential. It turns out that that person was an
idiot and that a cashier's check WOULD have been acceptable. Unfortunately,
there is very little punishment for authoritarian stupidity.
I had to count out $30K in hundreds 4 times. Not fun at all.
The Real Bev
Damn, you really remember things, don't you? Actually, looking back at
pictures of me taken around that time, I really wasn't all that bad-looking!
Warning: we don't appreciate what we have until we don't have it any more.
larry
> Dennis wrote:
>
>> On 26 Jul 2007 15:17:59 -0500, fr...@encompasserve.org (Sharon) wrote:
>>
>>> Honest question, why would an individual need $30,000 in cash, as
>>> opposed to a cashier's check? I'm curious. I've needed to withdraw
>>> that much or more a few times, generally downpayments for real
>>> estate, but I've always been happy with cashier's checks. (Although
>>> a wheelbarrow full of cash would be fun...)
>>
>>
>> My guess is a blackmail payment to avoid publishing of embarassing
>> photos of Real Bev in her turquoise suede go-go boots.
>
>
> Damn, you really remember things, don't you? Actually, looking back at
> pictures of me taken around that time, I really wasn't all that
> bad-looking! Warning: we don't appreciate what we have until we don't
> have it any more.
>
You look great! Nature compensates both ways, in time, none
of us can see worth a damn!
We're still with WAMU and not had much trouble, but the
branch manager has been there at least 20 years, back in the
Savings of America days. The guy is amazing, the word "no"
is not in his vocabulary.
-larry / dallas
Dennis
<bashley1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dennis wrote:
>
>> On 26 Jul 2007 15:17:59 -0500, fr...@encompasserve.org (Sharon) wrote:
>>
>>>Honest question, why would an individual need $30,000 in cash, as opposed to a
>>>cashier's check? I'm curious. I've needed to withdraw that much or more a few
>>>times, generally downpayments for real estate, but I've always been happy with
>>>cashier's checks. (Although a wheelbarrow full of cash would be fun...)
>>
>> My guess is a blackmail payment to avoid publishing of embarassing
>> photos of Real Bev in her turquoise suede go-go boots.
>
>Damn, you really remember things, don't you?
It's a curse. Tons of useless trivia floating around, but I can't
remember the important stuff.
>Actually, looking back at
>pictures of me taken around that time, I really wasn't all that bad-looking!
Embarassing doesn't necessarily mean bad-looking. ;-)
> Warning: we don't appreciate what we have until we don't have it any more.
So true.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin
Binyamin Dissen
:>>You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
:>>sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
:>>or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
:>>of cash to you. They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
:>>know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
:>I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
:>small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
:>smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
Perhaps if they get down to coins.
I recently got $5K or so from a CitiBank in Miami Beach - and a lot of it was
$50s (they ran out of $100s). $30K may have required a pile of $10s and $1s.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
root
> pictures of me taken around that time, I really wasn't all that bad-looking!
> Warning: we don't appreciate what we have until we don't have it any more.
>
You're good looking now. I appreciate what I have right now.