The Truth and Nothing But...
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rigsy03
Jul 28, 2012, 4:19:51 PM7/28/12
to "Minds Eye"
Was thinking more about Vam's statement about facts. Well, who
presents the facts and how are they edited or censored? Many were
content to think of American Indians as Tonto(Lone Ranger) until "Bury
My Heart at Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown came out. When facts have a
political, religious or social purpose, you can bet you are not
getting the complete story. Same with families who whitewash family
history. No one who has read British history believes the Olympic
opening ceremony selections are the full story- that's entertainment-
otherwise fisticuffs and tears.
presents the facts and how are they edited or censored? Many were
content to think of American Indians as Tonto(Lone Ranger) until "Bury
My Heart at Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown came out. When facts have a
political, religious or social purpose, you can bet you are not
getting the complete story. Same with families who whitewash family
history. No one who has read British history believes the Olympic
opening ceremony selections are the full story- that's entertainment-
otherwise fisticuffs and tears.
Vam
Jul 28, 2012, 11:10:42 PM7/28/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Things might be in books, papers, media, or other people's minds.
Yet, it is YOU who is central to everything, including facts you are aware of.
Facts are truths of the moment, as it is in your insight and conviction.
Even whether a 'story' is complete, or not, is a matter of your perception.
Of course, it depends upon how much details you've gone on to acquire
and place in your awareness, analysed it and obtained a consistent insight
with a critical eye.
The elephant in the room can be known for what it is.
But it takes focus, the opposite of dissipation,
and hell of a lot of going through.
We've generally lost the motivation for going after facts
and the art of going through !
Molly
Jul 29, 2012, 8:21:07 AM7/29/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Facts are an important fact-or of consensus reality which is based solely on mind (temporal). There is more to truth than that, but relative truth can be found with facts, including consensus truths. But they are relative.
Lee Douglas
Jul 30, 2012, 11:39:32 AM7/30/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Ahhh the ongoing, everlasting, nonstoping quest for truth.
I was having a go at a great frined of mine just the other day9coz you can with greate freinds). I was berating him for his constant whinging about the olympics being here, and yes of course he is not into sport so I kinda get it, but he was being all indgnant thatr his harsh words on Twitter were bringing him back harsh words in return.
I told him that like it or loath it the Olympics is a world wide event and it IS (capital S coz it's 'the truth') a big deal for us native Londoners to have it here.
He said something along the lines of So I have to pretend to lie it then? I told him of course not, but you can't pretend to not understand how antagonistic words from the 'we don't like it camp' may bring the same back from the 'we love it camp.'
His reply was a rather terse one telling how he doesn't like to be called wrong, mine was equaly as terse mentioning the S word (yes subjective) and telling him to man up and don't let others words get to him, ohh and of course you're wrong mate.
His next reply..... hehe he didn't bother!
I guess the point is we will not find out who is correct about the benifits to the UK and London from the Olympics untill long after and so I would say that most facts cannot be substantiated untill time has shown them for what they are.
gabbydott
Jul 30, 2012, 1:30:31 PM7/30/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Ah, I know that problem. Send your friend over to Berlin and I’ll give
him a 20-years-after guided tour.
You see, I’m a native West-Berliner and when The Wall came down 23
years ago it was a world event also. And it forced a lot of need for
adaption on us too. The good idea behind it won. The necessary
whinging is being processed in new fields of expertise now. :)
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him a 20-years-after guided tour.
You see, I’m a native West-Berliner and when The Wall came down 23
years ago it was a world event also. And it forced a lot of need for
adaption on us too. The good idea behind it won. The necessary
whinging is being processed in new fields of expertise now. :)
>
>
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rigsy03
Jul 31, 2012, 8:01:27 AM7/31/12
to "Minds Eye"
I think the Olympics are a great idea and the athletes are wonderful-
even the non-medal winners. Don't you gasp at their prowess and
beautiful bodies? I do- how fantastic humans can be!
Not much of a fan of the commercial aspect, however, and "all that
jazz"- or the gossip, sniping,etc.
One of the best ideas the human race has come up with- in my opinion.
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rigsy03
Jul 31, 2012, 8:19:18 AM7/31/12
to "Minds Eye"
True. The truth can hurt- maybe that's why we avoid it- or try to. And
it takes time/maturity/experience to weigh and judge facts. The best I
can do is get back to those imaginary scales I try to manage- weighing
the good against the bad- and hoping they will balance and bring me
some kind of acceptance.
it takes time/maturity/experience to weigh and judge facts. The best I
can do is get back to those imaginary scales I try to manage- weighing
the good against the bad- and hoping they will balance and bring me
some kind of acceptance.
archytas
Jul 31, 2012, 10:33:23 AM7/31/12
to "Minds Eye"
There is a point at which one has to accept that celebrating history
as truth would be extremely difficult in public events like the
Olympics. A re-enactment of, say, the joint action of British,
French, German, American, Russian and Japanese navies putting down the
Boxer revolution in China (1902 ish) is probably something to leave
behind at such moments. The Queen leaping out of a plane and arriving
by parachute with James Bond is at least obvious fantasy. At least we
were spared, as in Fifty Shades of Grey mode, the jump as some form of
bondage sex. Sport is rather tiresome - how long before the prone
full-bore is advertised in the obvious innuendo?
as truth would be extremely difficult in public events like the
Olympics. A re-enactment of, say, the joint action of British,
French, German, American, Russian and Japanese navies putting down the
Boxer revolution in China (1902 ish) is probably something to leave
behind at such moments. The Queen leaping out of a plane and arriving
by parachute with James Bond is at least obvious fantasy. At least we
were spared, as in Fifty Shades of Grey mode, the jump as some form of
bondage sex. Sport is rather tiresome - how long before the prone
full-bore is advertised in the obvious innuendo?
rigsy03
Aug 1, 2012, 7:50:51 AM8/1/12
to "Minds Eye"
Sport is a tamer form of war, isn't it? Wrong Bond for me- but one
wonders how Sean would have handled that stunt. Am not keeping track
of the Olympic Sinophobia- really, the editor-zingers are pathetic
delivering their soundbites.
Ah, sadness. Gore Vidal has died- age 86. Another approach to history
is silenced.
Haven't read 50 Shades. Should I? :-)
Must get to a cuke today- subcs. active. Will make gazpacho and a cold
cuke-yogurt to bide the heat.
Have my own take on the Opium Wars and the put down of the Boxer
Rebellion- pure opportunist trade there. Merchants cannot stand
indifference. Plus the decline of the Dutch. Oh well...
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
wonders how Sean would have handled that stunt. Am not keeping track
of the Olympic Sinophobia- really, the editor-zingers are pathetic
delivering their soundbites.
Ah, sadness. Gore Vidal has died- age 86. Another approach to history
is silenced.
Haven't read 50 Shades. Should I? :-)
Must get to a cuke today- subcs. active. Will make gazpacho and a cold
cuke-yogurt to bide the heat.
Have my own take on the Opium Wars and the put down of the Boxer
Rebellion- pure opportunist trade there. Merchants cannot stand
indifference. Plus the decline of the Dutch. Oh well...
Allan H
Aug 1, 2012, 9:25:06 AM8/1/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else will we get great lines like...
"The United States of Amnesia"
Allan
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archytas
Aug 1, 2012, 2:39:58 PM8/1/12
to "Minds Eye"
I haven't read 50 shades rigs. Had a quick look at a documentary on
it. I fell asleep.
On Aug 1, 2:25 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
it. I fell asleep.
On Aug 1, 2:25 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
rigsy03
Aug 2, 2012, 10:39:36 AM8/2/12
to "Minds Eye"
I read his novels- 7 or 8 of them- but did agree with an essay re
Middle East so I will "fill in" with his memoir and some essays- the
latter seems to be getting the highest praise. I envied his era as the
50's were a terrible bore to grow up in.
On Aug 1, 8:25 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
> > --- Hide quoted text -
Middle East so I will "fill in" with his memoir and some essays- the
latter seems to be getting the highest praise. I envied his era as the
50's were a terrible bore to grow up in.
On Aug 1, 8:25 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
rigsy03
Aug 2, 2012, 10:51:50 AM8/2/12
to "Minds Eye"
Had a look at a review and nearly dozed off myself! The next might be
senior sex/desire from the female point of view- perhaps. I think
Gloria Vanderbilt made an attempt.
I am cucumbered. I hate to waste food so next thing will be to rescue
what's left. Will make some falafel for the yogurt/cuke.
> > > --- Hide quoted text -
senior sex/desire from the female point of view- perhaps. I think
Gloria Vanderbilt made an attempt.
I am cucumbered. I hate to waste food so next thing will be to rescue
what's left. Will make some falafel for the yogurt/cuke.
rigsy03
Aug 2, 2012, 7:59:18 PM8/2/12
to "Minds Eye"
"Days of Destruction,Days of Revolt" by Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco
<http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12993106-days-of-destruction-days-
of-revolt>
> > --- Hide quoted text -
<http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12993106-days-of-destruction-days-
of-revolt>
> Yes Rigsy Gore Vidal passing leaves a great vacancy open ,, where else
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
> will we get great lines like...
> "The United States of Amnesia"
> Allan
gabbydott
Aug 3, 2012, 6:16:49 AM8/3/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Reads like a good read for Vam.
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Allan H
Aug 3, 2012, 6:26:17 AM8/3/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
lol Gabby Personally historical novels have never really been to my taste..
--
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Allan
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
rigsy03
Aug 3, 2012, 7:40:55 AM8/3/12
to "Minds Eye"
Some are excellent- for instance, Vidal's "Julian" and some of the
little known gossipy facts he used in his series on USA history. What
makes you think non-fiction history is honest? You are always going to
deal with bias, motive from any author, aren't you? Few authors/
reporters live long enough to trace the consequences of the subject so
they are only as reliable until the next approach/unearthing of
documents, etc. In the Middle East schools have been noted in their
slick use of razors to delete maps, facts from history so as to
control information, for instance. Didn't your parents tell you not to
believe everything you read in the newspapers? And what makes some
think all the political babble in ads and media is "honest"?
On Aug 3, 5:26 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> lol Gabby Personally historical novels have never really been to my
> taste..
> Allan
>
>
>
>
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> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Reads like a good read for Vam.
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
little known gossipy facts he used in his series on USA history. What
makes you think non-fiction history is honest? You are always going to
deal with bias, motive from any author, aren't you? Few authors/
reporters live long enough to trace the consequences of the subject so
they are only as reliable until the next approach/unearthing of
documents, etc. In the Middle East schools have been noted in their
slick use of razors to delete maps, facts from history so as to
control information, for instance. Didn't your parents tell you not to
believe everything you read in the newspapers? And what makes some
think all the political babble in ads and media is "honest"?
On Aug 3, 5:26 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> lol Gabby Personally historical novels have never really been to my
> taste..
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Reads like a good read for Vam.
>
rigsy03
Aug 3, 2012, 7:58:36 AM8/3/12
to "Minds Eye"
Thought I had chickpeas but didn't and it was too hot to go out so I
made a Moroccan chicken dish which also uses yogurt to cool down the
spices.//Anyway I doubt if many "nice" girls,wives, mothers,
grandmothers are going to write a Henry Miller topic/tropic but some
have tried. It comes back to a basic fact that there are different
moral standards for men and women-still- and probably always will be.
It probably goes back to the male forced/needing to separate from his
mother in childhood. Funny how some powerful politicians were overly
attached to their mother's opinion like FDR and Churchill- and others.
made a Moroccan chicken dish which also uses yogurt to cool down the
spices.//Anyway I doubt if many "nice" girls,wives, mothers,
grandmothers are going to write a Henry Miller topic/tropic but some
have tried. It comes back to a basic fact that there are different
moral standards for men and women-still- and probably always will be.
It probably goes back to the male forced/needing to separate from his
mother in childhood. Funny how some powerful politicians were overly
attached to their mother's opinion like FDR and Churchill- and others.
Allan H
Aug 3, 2012, 9:15:07 AM8/3/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
It is all written by the victors. Who said I believe any of books of the historical vintage... I have read to much of what has turned out to be lies rather than the simple truth.
Allan
--
Allan H
Aug 3, 2012, 2:00:56 PM8/3/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
When I was out sailing Rigsy I learned from a power greater than myself that I needed to take everything with a grain of salt.. that is why we are provided with whole oceans full of it.
Allan
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