sexual orientation
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archytas
Sep 10, 2012, 7:35:49 AM9/10/12
to "Minds Eye"
I watched some gorillas on television a couple of days back. An all
male group were practising homosexuality, but then the women moved in
and they reverted to straight. The alpha appeared to dominate the
sex, but in fact the others got on with life behind his back. All
very human. A couple of weeks back I had a bit of a blow out down the
pub. I was accused by a psycho of fancying his wife - all very ape.
I find sexual orientation pretty boring. I still get the smarts from
time to time, but find sex as commercially presented dull. I'd say
each to his or her own if my old job hadn't exposed me to utter
perversion. I have a mate into bondage and pain and that's his
business. I can't say the same about sex tourism and child abuse such
as getting sex from young kids by giving them mobile phones. Most
cultures have abusive sex rings and weird rituals. I have a
particular disdain for men in skirts waiving incense, pretending
holiness and abusing kids.
I'm a cuddly sort under whatever enigma I present or is (more
accurately I think) perceived by others. Derrida had it somewhere
that the pen scratching paper is violence. My favourite sports are
violent (cricket and rugby). Sex itself is somewhat more violent than
scratching paper with a nib, though our ludic gasps are not usually
about pain.
I'm not at all sure sexual orientation is about straight, gay, lesbian
and so on. Sue's dog has a thing for my duffle-coat, teenage legs as
he approaches 'maturity' and is devoted to our female cat. What
consenting people do between themselves is generally of no account,
though the taboos we have on age and incest are about right.
Genetically, we are close to not needing sexual relations for
reproduction - either sex can, in principle, reproduce without the
other, and again in principle, we could build the 'next model' from
chemical constituents.
I suspect our economic affairs are little more than some sublimated
ape genetics. I'm interested in how gang-rape and abuse cultures come
about in an attempt to understand how a sexual orientation infringes
emancipation and consenting mutuality - and how we might live free of
the domination of genes over rationality (itself somewhat gene-driven).
male group were practising homosexuality, but then the women moved in
and they reverted to straight. The alpha appeared to dominate the
sex, but in fact the others got on with life behind his back. All
very human. A couple of weeks back I had a bit of a blow out down the
pub. I was accused by a psycho of fancying his wife - all very ape.
I find sexual orientation pretty boring. I still get the smarts from
time to time, but find sex as commercially presented dull. I'd say
each to his or her own if my old job hadn't exposed me to utter
perversion. I have a mate into bondage and pain and that's his
business. I can't say the same about sex tourism and child abuse such
as getting sex from young kids by giving them mobile phones. Most
cultures have abusive sex rings and weird rituals. I have a
particular disdain for men in skirts waiving incense, pretending
holiness and abusing kids.
I'm a cuddly sort under whatever enigma I present or is (more
accurately I think) perceived by others. Derrida had it somewhere
that the pen scratching paper is violence. My favourite sports are
violent (cricket and rugby). Sex itself is somewhat more violent than
scratching paper with a nib, though our ludic gasps are not usually
about pain.
I'm not at all sure sexual orientation is about straight, gay, lesbian
and so on. Sue's dog has a thing for my duffle-coat, teenage legs as
he approaches 'maturity' and is devoted to our female cat. What
consenting people do between themselves is generally of no account,
though the taboos we have on age and incest are about right.
Genetically, we are close to not needing sexual relations for
reproduction - either sex can, in principle, reproduce without the
other, and again in principle, we could build the 'next model' from
chemical constituents.
I suspect our economic affairs are little more than some sublimated
ape genetics. I'm interested in how gang-rape and abuse cultures come
about in an attempt to understand how a sexual orientation infringes
emancipation and consenting mutuality - and how we might live free of
the domination of genes over rationality (itself somewhat gene-driven).
Molly
Sep 10, 2012, 8:54:40 AM9/10/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I'd say that genes only rule rationality when rationality or "mind" rules being. A quiet mind opens endless possibility. Epigenetics is changing the paradigm as we find our genetic code in flux and responsive to our internal environment. Twins separated at birth match their adoptive parents genetic code more than their biological. All quite fascinating.
gabbydott
Sep 10, 2012, 11:33:13 AM9/10/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
This translates that there is hope for mankind to be able to optimize
their offspring's sexual orientation to the desired one. An old
belief.
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their offspring's sexual orientation to the desired one. An old
belief.
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archytas
Sep 10, 2012, 12:30:30 PM9/10/12
to "Minds Eye"
I think the hope is to optimise away from being so boring on the issue
of sexual orientation as gay, bi, lesbian and straight. Only
godswank prejudice could ever have led us to be bothered.
Orientation towards violent, predatory and exploitative sex does seem
worthy of consideration and there is sadly plenty of it. I suspect
this pathology is the model for our political economy.
I can sympathise with being Molly - Heidegger tortured it death. I
came across a paedophile case recently in which the perpetrator had a
brain tumour. Once removed the behaviour disappeared. The scalpel
saved him rather than introspection. I agree, of course, that we need
more reflection on what we can be and how to live. If life as we know
it (Jim) was a holiday destination, I wouldn't be coming back.
Women (as in cosmetic adverts) make me sick, as would anyone attracted
to Marks and Spencer by its latest clothes-horse marketing. It seems
I have little orientation towards bimboism. Anthropology gives us
reason to suppose sexuality is culturally manufactured in large
degree. I suspect we don't think very clearly about it
Much as I don't like rules, I think we can value them in minimal
form. I'd guess one we're missing on sexuality is its use in
distraction, much like religious rituals. I have to say, Gabs, that
the sexuality of any offspring would be of less concern to me than
general health - thus no doubt making be ableist against the social
model of disability. One might ponder whether one would prefer a
child to carry potential to be a fast-bowling all rounder or born
straight (no contest for me). The Italian aristocracy model from the
17th century was essentially gay - women were just breeding machines.
I am not an aristocrat and, having watched England thrash the West
Indies in women's cricket, am a little sad I'm too old to make a fool
of myself with the whole eleven.
of sexual orientation as gay, bi, lesbian and straight. Only
godswank prejudice could ever have led us to be bothered.
Orientation towards violent, predatory and exploitative sex does seem
worthy of consideration and there is sadly plenty of it. I suspect
this pathology is the model for our political economy.
I can sympathise with being Molly - Heidegger tortured it death. I
came across a paedophile case recently in which the perpetrator had a
brain tumour. Once removed the behaviour disappeared. The scalpel
saved him rather than introspection. I agree, of course, that we need
more reflection on what we can be and how to live. If life as we know
it (Jim) was a holiday destination, I wouldn't be coming back.
Women (as in cosmetic adverts) make me sick, as would anyone attracted
to Marks and Spencer by its latest clothes-horse marketing. It seems
I have little orientation towards bimboism. Anthropology gives us
reason to suppose sexuality is culturally manufactured in large
degree. I suspect we don't think very clearly about it
Much as I don't like rules, I think we can value them in minimal
form. I'd guess one we're missing on sexuality is its use in
distraction, much like religious rituals. I have to say, Gabs, that
the sexuality of any offspring would be of less concern to me than
general health - thus no doubt making be ableist against the social
model of disability. One might ponder whether one would prefer a
child to carry potential to be a fast-bowling all rounder or born
straight (no contest for me). The Italian aristocracy model from the
17th century was essentially gay - women were just breeding machines.
I am not an aristocrat and, having watched England thrash the West
Indies in women's cricket, am a little sad I'm too old to make a fool
of myself with the whole eleven.
Allan H
Sep 10, 2012, 3:15:01 PM9/10/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I was reading the other day that the genetic code is far more active than it was ever believed and that the genetic code is active through out your entire life. they are looking into how to flip the genetic switches for everything from diabetes through cancer and other human ailments.
--
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The genetic code is no longer restricted to that of our birth
Allan
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
I am a Natural Airgunner -
Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
archytas
Sep 10, 2012, 4:48:45 PM9/10/12
to "Minds Eye"
The guess is 4 million switches and they may work in multiple
combination.
combination.
William L Houts
Sep 10, 2012, 6:30:20 PM9/10/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com, archytas
Probably, the gay-straight-bisexual thing is a shorthand for more
complicated realities. Though my own sexual attention, for instance,
is towards other men, I occasionally have het fantasies. I welcome
these as part of a healthy sexual imagination and leave it at that,
though a romance with a woman my age and sharing my interests seems like
a grand idea as I picture it at the moment. This sort of comfort with
a sexual orientation not one's own seems more prevalent among gay men
than straight. Gay folks, and both gay and straight people in
alternative sexuallity communities --SM, poly, etc.-- simply have more
exposure to erotic schemes not their own. Straight men, on the other
hand, usually don't get exposure to erotic cultures not their own and
are trained early on to despise them, and to beat them up if they get
the chance. Present company excepted, of course.
--Bill
rigsy03
Sep 10, 2012, 10:51:57 PM9/10/12
to "Minds Eye"
It's all been done before in other cultures- homosexual preference,
pedophilia, women as breeders, men/women as sources of wealth through
land, tribe or title, etc. The new factor is a liberated, financially
independent woman who does not need marriage for security or social
status (though some slipped through the net like Eliz. I and a few
others). Men who don't wish to get tied down. Parents who don't get
rid of their children through marrying them off. Female gossip over
the last 40 years rather turns men into objects- much as befell women-
and still does, if they allow it. Then there is the trade factor
excluding money or permanence. The concern, if there is any, might
turn to the children of the fractured nuclear family model- the impact
and consequences to society. Of course there have always been war
widows and early widowers. There are plenty of challenges to senior
years with couples- one friend married her professor and has been a
nurse for decades- another's husband just got wheeled off to a home-
to her relief- another grits her teeth and remains cordial because her
two ex-husbands support her.
Aside: Yesterday I noticed a lovely front license plate with golden
wings across from me and when the elderly man unloaded his groceries I
went up and asked him what his plate meant. Turns out he was a navy
fighter pilot from WWII. "Not many of us left", he said, before we
said goodbye. Had just finished watching parts of "The Bridge Over the
River Kwai" and remembered my crush on William Holden as a teen. A
rude ending was his fate, someone mentioned in an old forum.
Anyway- I think you are talking about exploitation. Of apes and men...
pedophilia, women as breeders, men/women as sources of wealth through
land, tribe or title, etc. The new factor is a liberated, financially
independent woman who does not need marriage for security or social
status (though some slipped through the net like Eliz. I and a few
others). Men who don't wish to get tied down. Parents who don't get
rid of their children through marrying them off. Female gossip over
the last 40 years rather turns men into objects- much as befell women-
and still does, if they allow it. Then there is the trade factor
excluding money or permanence. The concern, if there is any, might
turn to the children of the fractured nuclear family model- the impact
and consequences to society. Of course there have always been war
widows and early widowers. There are plenty of challenges to senior
years with couples- one friend married her professor and has been a
nurse for decades- another's husband just got wheeled off to a home-
to her relief- another grits her teeth and remains cordial because her
two ex-husbands support her.
Aside: Yesterday I noticed a lovely front license plate with golden
wings across from me and when the elderly man unloaded his groceries I
went up and asked him what his plate meant. Turns out he was a navy
fighter pilot from WWII. "Not many of us left", he said, before we
said goodbye. Had just finished watching parts of "The Bridge Over the
River Kwai" and remembered my crush on William Holden as a teen. A
rude ending was his fate, someone mentioned in an old forum.
Anyway- I think you are talking about exploitation. Of apes and men...
rigsy03
Sep 10, 2012, 11:07:23 PM9/10/12
to "Minds Eye"
I'm content. Andy Murray won the US Open. His legs won it. :-)
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Allan H
Sep 11, 2012, 3:58:38 AM9/11/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
How old did you say you want to get to:
Allan
archytas
Sep 11, 2012, 2:54:34 PM9/11/12
to "Minds Eye"
A lot I recognise in what you say Bill. The odd male face does
something to me - the blond lad from some car-chase ritual in which
Barbara Bach was the 'love interest' was one such good ole boy. He
was far more immediately attractive than her. I haven't noticed Andy
Murray's legs though rigsy. I took a set off Rod Laver once - though
sadly this was in a table tennis warm-up to his main event.
It is the exploitation that interests me. In many respects I think we
are still living to the Domesday Book and similar. My fantasies tend
towards imagining what a world without any financial dependence might
be like. I'm inclined to see economics in a metaphor of sexual fetish
and dependence.
something to me - the blond lad from some car-chase ritual in which
Barbara Bach was the 'love interest' was one such good ole boy. He
was far more immediately attractive than her. I haven't noticed Andy
Murray's legs though rigsy. I took a set off Rod Laver once - though
sadly this was in a table tennis warm-up to his main event.
It is the exploitation that interests me. In many respects I think we
are still living to the Domesday Book and similar. My fantasies tend
towards imagining what a world without any financial dependence might
be like. I'm inclined to see economics in a metaphor of sexual fetish
and dependence.
archytas
Sep 11, 2012, 3:00:09 PM9/11/12
to "Minds Eye"
I'd add that ADMASS culture doesn't help any of this.
And that I have no wish to live forever Al. It would be good not to
look back on most of it as a waste of time though! Had an enjoyable
chat about that with two former teachers last week. Their biggest
grins came when they discovered I'd missed out on the early retirement
scheme because I was five years younger than them.
And that I have no wish to live forever Al. It would be good not to
look back on most of it as a waste of time though! Had an enjoyable
chat about that with two former teachers last week. Their biggest
grins came when they discovered I'd missed out on the early retirement
scheme because I was five years younger than them.
Allan H
Sep 11, 2012, 5:29:00 PM9/11/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Now your true colors are showing Rigsy, you sky cougar you.
Allan
--
rigsy03
Sep 12, 2012, 10:04:54 AM9/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
That's funny, Allan, but a "cougar" stalks younger men.
On Sep 11, 4:29 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now your true colors are showing Rigsy, you sky cougar you.
> Allan
On Sep 11, 4:29 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now your true colors are showing Rigsy, you sky cougar you.
> Allan
rigsy03
Sep 12, 2012, 10:18:36 AM9/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
Novak's legs began to cramp in the 5th set whereas Andy has good legs
for the long haul. Thank god for Scottish legs from my father!
I can admire female beauty without desiring it. Am definitely hetero.
Have dated/gone with "pretty boys" but they seemed dull somehow. I
like a bit of ruggedness or misery- mother called them "lounge
lizards". Have noted many couples where one provides the looks and the
other the plain- or a mix of education- liberal arts/science. Have had
a couple women apprpoach me which I thought creepy- I think I wear an
invisible hoop skirt to keep some distance- my daughter chided me for
looking "unapproachable" which is my public behavior- that's how I was
raised- but it didn't stop men from passing me their cards via
waitresses, etc. In fact, men started crawling out of the woodwork
after my divorce so I married again asap.
> > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted text -
for the long haul. Thank god for Scottish legs from my father!
I can admire female beauty without desiring it. Am definitely hetero.
Have dated/gone with "pretty boys" but they seemed dull somehow. I
like a bit of ruggedness or misery- mother called them "lounge
lizards". Have noted many couples where one provides the looks and the
other the plain- or a mix of education- liberal arts/science. Have had
a couple women apprpoach me which I thought creepy- I think I wear an
invisible hoop skirt to keep some distance- my daughter chided me for
looking "unapproachable" which is my public behavior- that's how I was
raised- but it didn't stop men from passing me their cards via
waitresses, etc. In fact, men started crawling out of the woodwork
after my divorce so I married again asap.
Allan H
Sep 12, 2012, 11:37:02 AM9/12/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Andy is not younger? I am so confused..
and I do understand the rest and it is very true
Allan
Vam
Sep 12, 2012, 1:37:36 PM9/12/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
The only point about sexual orientation is the negative attitude people have to anything not their own. Take that away, in curative sense, and the topic is not worth a minute of my attention.
It's the same with sex and food. Be done with, whichever way you will. In media, however, there are many who insist on keeping it as their only priority ... as hogs would ! That's when I conclude that the man has not evolved.
rigsy03
Sep 12, 2012, 3:15:08 PM9/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
How did you get this idea? He is simply an interesting tennis player.
A fresh face.
A fresh face.
rigsy03
Sep 12, 2012, 3:17:12 PM9/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
Man can make a choice also- and be honest about it. It does take
humans a long time to mature.
humans a long time to mature.
Allan H
Sep 12, 2012, 3:35:50 PM9/12/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
up yup that's true
Allan
--
Vam
Sep 12, 2012, 4:35:57 PM9/12/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I recall loving Henry Miller's accounts [ or was it Norman Mailer ? ] but not because he was having food or sex 24/7 ! It was the remarkably upfront tale of vitality that was highly empowering ... a thorough eye-opener to someone who was yet "erring" on the side of excess.
rigsy03
Sep 12, 2012, 10:00:43 PM9/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
Some have used liquor for the same effect- more recently, drugs. This
is how one got in touch with their wild side and could then blame the
booze. O my god- I said that? Did that? etc. The '50's had boundaries
that dissolved in the "60's- (mostly due to the "pill") but it
depended on your group(s). Stark contrasts, really, between strict
rules/appearances and madcap behavior. Plus youth is an age of excess,
isn't it? Still and all, is there something really "modern" here or
just a repeat of former eras?
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is how one got in touch with their wild side and could then blame the
booze. O my god- I said that? Did that? etc. The '50's had boundaries
that dissolved in the "60's- (mostly due to the "pill") but it
depended on your group(s). Stark contrasts, really, between strict
rules/appearances and madcap behavior. Plus youth is an age of excess,
isn't it? Still and all, is there something really "modern" here or
just a repeat of former eras?
Allan H
Sep 13, 2012, 3:55:08 AM9/13/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Vam according to the kamasutra there is no such thing as exsex. I mean excess,
Allan
archytas
Sep 13, 2012, 4:24:49 AM9/13/12
to "Minds Eye"
I rather agree with Vam. We need to know people are sprung
differently, but after that, who cares.
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differently, but after that, who cares.
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> read more »
rigsy03
Sep 13, 2012, 6:04:45 AM9/13/12
to "Minds Eye"
Religion. Society. Family.//"Three Junes" was a very sensitive novel
about gays- think it won the National Book Award- or was on the list.
Islam will have its hands full adapting to Western mores but formerly
young Catholic women were strictly managed- our bodies being Temples
which later turned into Grand Central Station. Well, at least our
children were raised very differently.
> ...
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about gays- think it won the National Book Award- or was on the list.
Islam will have its hands full adapting to Western mores but formerly
young Catholic women were strictly managed- our bodies being Temples
which later turned into Grand Central Station. Well, at least our
children were raised very differently.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
gabbydott
Sep 13, 2012, 6:44:10 AM9/13/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Mothers and novelists? The others keep on minding their own business.
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rigsy03
Sep 13, 2012, 11:38:19 AM9/13/12
to "Minds Eye"
Hope I understand your intent.
Mothers are our first teachers. (Unless she dies in childbirth.)
"Uncle Tom's Cabin" sparked a radical change.
Didn't society try to mind their own business re aids?
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Mothers are our first teachers. (Unless she dies in childbirth.)
"Uncle Tom's Cabin" sparked a radical change.
Didn't society try to mind their own business re aids?
Allan H
Sep 13, 2012, 4:52:48 PM9/13/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
that is true, some things are said enjoyment and humour,
Allan
--
gabbydott
Sep 20, 2012, 2:59:22 PM9/20/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Sorry it took so long with the response. No, this was not my intent. I
cannot remember what is was though. All I remember is that I liked
"Minds Eye" for its openness from the onset, its grammatical
potentiality, its audible visualization. The blinding icon and the
rest came later. And now this is not even a response worth waiting
for. Sorry.
> --
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cannot remember what is was though. All I remember is that I liked
"Minds Eye" for its openness from the onset, its grammatical
potentiality, its audible visualization. The blinding icon and the
rest came later. And now this is not even a response worth waiting
for. Sorry.
>
>
>
Lee Douglas
Oct 23, 2012, 4:52:42 PM10/23/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Well in truth sexual orientation is much more complex than Gay, Straight or Bi. My eldest son came out as gay about 6 months ago (at long last), and one of my very best and last remaining school chums is a straight man who married a pre-op transgendered woman. That is to say she still has her penis. I asked him about the mechanics of their sex life some time ago, and he told me well Lee there is only two holes I can put it in. To some this would make him gay, he is not though. I called him a bugger and we carried on drinking whiskey and chatting.
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