Some Education
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pol.science kid
Apr 12, 2012, 10:43:55 AM4/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
Recently, i was part of some filed work in a village ... we were
looking into primary education there.... well.. while doing the
report.. i thought i couldnt really understand education.. clearly
what works for the city kids wouldnt work for those in the rural
side..most of them do think theyre wasting their time...teachers hate
the kids kids hate the teachers..everyone is bitching... the situation
is pretty bad.. those who can do get out.. actually primary education
in my country is pretty beat up... now in know most of you are from
the 'West'.. Sounds weird when i say it like that.. we're frequently
told that primary education in the west is quite o.k. .... in fact
good.. What do you guys think?.. Also... how do you define
education..i almost hate the term by now.. get to hear it so much with
people having no idea of what they mean.... what do you think..?
looking into primary education there.... well.. while doing the
report.. i thought i couldnt really understand education.. clearly
what works for the city kids wouldnt work for those in the rural
side..most of them do think theyre wasting their time...teachers hate
the kids kids hate the teachers..everyone is bitching... the situation
is pretty bad.. those who can do get out.. actually primary education
in my country is pretty beat up... now in know most of you are from
the 'West'.. Sounds weird when i say it like that.. we're frequently
told that primary education in the west is quite o.k. .... in fact
good.. What do you guys think?.. Also... how do you define
education..i almost hate the term by now.. get to hear it so much with
people having no idea of what they mean.... what do you think..?
pol.science kid
Apr 12, 2012, 10:47:54 AM4/12/12
to "Minds Eye"
I am from india if you guys didnt know...--
EverComing
EverComing
Allan H
Apr 12, 2012, 2:29:03 PM4/12/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Education is based of what society hold of value.I know India has an educational system that is greatly varied.. but Poly you are very lucky as you have in this group many people who are your friends that can guide you in what you want to learn.. I notice you have an internet connection and a computer of some type that allows you to access the internet.. I now there are a great many children in india that are not that lucky.
India has a long history of spirituality,, is very much into the latest technology, there are people active in social change,, (in India) Education is involved at its best in what your talents are and also what your interest are.. One thing that is certain that in India if you are willing you can take it any where , and all education is based off your willingness to learn , at least your education is not jammed into a set fixed format,, and that can be a blessing in disguise
Allan
--
(
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
James Lynch
Apr 13, 2012, 6:01:44 PM4/13/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I think education is a mixing pot. Remove the social factors and I
think US public education is good, here in the states we believe in
solving social problems by expanding the prison system. o.0 The
solutions I keep hearing from people in the past year are bizarre,
vigilante militia with public executions sort of stuff. It makes me
wonder if it's a meme I'm missing or something. Anyway.. back to
topic.
think US public education is good, here in the states we believe in
solving social problems by expanding the prison system. o.0 The
solutions I keep hearing from people in the past year are bizarre,
vigilante militia with public executions sort of stuff. It makes me
wonder if it's a meme I'm missing or something. Anyway.. back to
topic.
Who has the attitude that it is a waste of time: kids, parents,
teachers? I imagine modernizing a largely rural or isolated population
would have some resistance, I'd say give it a few generations to get
going and put a lot of effort in recycling their traditional community
resources. If it is a boilerplate political maneuver there is still
social gain but I would worry about increasing resentment and culture
clash. The roots of education predate and transcend institutional
bureaucracy and the primary factors revolve around family and
community, a progressive surge could propel innovative strategies but
I think it also could decimate a culture or weaken it's ability to
adapt and outpace growing pains/challenges.
This is an interesting topic pol, more observations please.
Vam
Apr 13, 2012, 11:25:26 PM4/13/12
to "Minds Eye"
Education, leading to some wisdom in which our critical view may take
root, takes time... yes, Knowledge >>> Attitude >>> Application >>>
Skills involves a process of incubation, and Time.
Now, the time required for specific knowledge-to-skill acquisition
process to complete differs with different people, for a variety of
reasons and factors involved.
So, the society - education industry - only promises to deliver the
knowledge, leaving our any committment to orienting the student's
attitude, willing to apply and learn from it, and its maturation into
an integrated perspective and life skills.
The education just delivers the knowledge, the " facts," to meet a
schedule. What a stated " fact " means, in association with others
stated and unstated, is upto the student to discover.
It may happen tommorow, take a lifetime, or may never emerge !
On Apr 14, 3:01 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think education is a mixing pot. Remove the social factors and I
> think US public education is good, here in the states we believe in
> solving social problems by expanding the prison system. o.0 The
> solutions I keep hearing from people in the past year are bizarre,
> vigilante militia with public executions sort of stuff. It makes me
> wonder if it's a meme I'm missing or something. Anyway.. back to
> topic.
>
> Who has the attitude that it is a waste of time: kids, parents,
> teachers? I imagine modernizing a largely rural or isolated population
> would have some resistance, I'd say give it a few generations to get
> going and put a lot of effort in recycling their traditional community
> resources. If it is a boilerplate political maneuver there is still
> social gain but I would worry about increasing resentment and culture
> clash. The roots of education predate and transcend institutional
> bureaucracy and the primary factors revolve around family and
> community, a progressive surge could propel innovative strategies but
> I think it also could decimate a culture or weaken it's ability to
> adapt and outpace growing pains/challenges.
>
> This is an interesting topic pol, more observations please.
>
root, takes time... yes, Knowledge >>> Attitude >>> Application >>>
Skills involves a process of incubation, and Time.
Now, the time required for specific knowledge-to-skill acquisition
process to complete differs with different people, for a variety of
reasons and factors involved.
So, the society - education industry - only promises to deliver the
knowledge, leaving our any committment to orienting the student's
attitude, willing to apply and learn from it, and its maturation into
an integrated perspective and life skills.
The education just delivers the knowledge, the " facts," to meet a
schedule. What a stated " fact " means, in association with others
stated and unstated, is upto the student to discover.
It may happen tommorow, take a lifetime, or may never emerge !
On Apr 14, 3:01 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think education is a mixing pot. Remove the social factors and I
> think US public education is good, here in the states we believe in
> solving social problems by expanding the prison system. o.0 The
> solutions I keep hearing from people in the past year are bizarre,
> vigilante militia with public executions sort of stuff. It makes me
> wonder if it's a meme I'm missing or something. Anyway.. back to
> topic.
>
> Who has the attitude that it is a waste of time: kids, parents,
> teachers? I imagine modernizing a largely rural or isolated population
> would have some resistance, I'd say give it a few generations to get
> going and put a lot of effort in recycling their traditional community
> resources. If it is a boilerplate political maneuver there is still
> social gain but I would worry about increasing resentment and culture
> clash. The roots of education predate and transcend institutional
> bureaucracy and the primary factors revolve around family and
> community, a progressive surge could propel innovative strategies but
> I think it also could decimate a culture or weaken it's ability to
> adapt and outpace growing pains/challenges.
>
> This is an interesting topic pol, more observations please.
>
rigsy03
Apr 14, 2012, 7:47:00 AM4/14/12
to "Minds Eye"
The USA is pretty low on the quality scale of education. We used to
have decent public education but most affluent families send their
children to private schools much of which has to do with income and
racial discrimination.//I think much of India's rural problems have to
do with loss of private ownership- the takeovers- and the low status
of females.
On Apr 12, 9:47 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am from india if you guys didnt know...
>
have decent public education but most affluent families send their
children to private schools much of which has to do with income and
racial discrimination.//I think much of India's rural problems have to
do with loss of private ownership- the takeovers- and the low status
of females.
On Apr 12, 9:47 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am from india if you guys didnt know...
>
pol.science kid
Apr 14, 2012, 11:16:02 AM4/14/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Everyone .. thinks they are wasting their time.. kids , parents, teachers. Well...it actually kind of works in a loop, the government schools in rural places lack infrastructure and man power, the teaching isnt that well, its not that the teachers arent qualified.. its just i didnt see that zeal.. i am sure there are exceptions abound in lots of places... ours was a very rapid appraisal... see most kids know they have to find a job quickly..being from not so affluent family.. the family cant invest so many resources for a child to study further when there are so many mouths to feed.. girls drop out earlier than boys.. they have to help around with house work ..take care of younger siblings.. the boys study as far as they can to find a suitable job.. and they know that the govt. school aint gonna help em get anywhere great. See though everyone is convinced that a child ought to go to school.. the parents most of them illetrate have an idea that if their kids go to school somehow they will have a better life than they had.. but there is no idea of education and knowledge , no traditional concept, it has been completely eroded, by the cities... But ill tell you one thing.. the spirit for learning that i didn't find in a day school, we went one night to attend a night school in a nearby village,there the atmosphere was completely different. There was a small solar lamp , and a large group of kids aged between 3 to 13.. were huddled around it, the light barely reached the end corners. The teacher was a middle aged man, who had apparently shifted many jobs, even left one with quite a good pay to teach the kids in the night school. These kids, attended the night school because they had to work the whole day, assist the parent in house work, taking care of cattle, working in the fields and other stuff. After a whole days work, they came there to study. But not one face was tired, the kids were more alert and smarter than the kids we found in the govt.school. Their teacher with his limited resources.. no classroom ,,we were sitting on a tattered carpet under the night sky, gave everything he could to these kids.There you could say , was a place of learning. Besides the curriculum , he imparted them traditional knowledge regarding the agriculture, cattle, basic home made medications, stuff that one can use in daily life.. easy science. Important measurements and conversions.It was brilliant. And it inspired us a lot.. thats the learning we want.. there a lot of Ngos and grass root level organisations that count on the same traditional education you talk about whilst giving them formal education they need , but it would be better if mainstream approach to rural education adapted a bit .. --
EverComing
EverComing
gabbydott
Apr 14, 2012, 11:49:08 AM4/14/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
It looks you took Ash's mixing pot image too literal, Vam. You don't bring order into a mixing pot by sequencing bubble terms - add some yeast if you want to create bubbles and get your new order!
If wisdom is what you wish to attain, you will not be able to achieve your goal without having taken good care of your critical eye, for it is the root that prevents you from being blinded.
Education does not deliver knowledge or facts - Google or my newspaper does that. In a wider sense they also educate me, but more in the sense of I am using their services with the intention to get access to information and not in the sense that I wish to get formed in their image.
I see a big difference in eastern and western understanding of what education means.
Vam
Apr 14, 2012, 1:26:52 PM4/14/12
to "Minds Eye"
Good. But my response has nothing to do eastern or western anything.
It's me. I regard any education as nothing if not leading to the
evolution of something within me which gives a me perspective to world
and life, a values system I can touch to know what the thing or matter
before me means, to me.
That should leave all the bubbles with you. And the yeast...
It's me. I regard any education as nothing if not leading to the
evolution of something within me which gives a me perspective to world
and life, a values system I can touch to know what the thing or matter
before me means, to me.
That should leave all the bubbles with you. And the yeast...
Don Johnson
Apr 14, 2012, 6:26:45 PM4/14/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Very interesting. Perhaps part of the problem is the giant bureaucracies inherent in government run education. Too often expensive and ineffectual. When teachers are in it for the paycheck and unions protect the rights of under performing teachers over the needs of students we have a problem. Vouchers can make a difference here in America and have proven it with encouraging results. Private schools, in the aggregate, do it better cheaper.
dj
James Lynch
Apr 14, 2012, 11:57:11 PM4/14/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
It is helpful to have an idea of process and structure and it seems to
me you are both talking about a qualitative/individual aspect to
education. This is an important focus, I think all else follows from
the challenges to success to the contributions to society- every last
ounce of potential is in the individual. All else is logistics of
scale, systematization, and mechanization.
me you are both talking about a qualitative/individual aspect to
education. This is an important focus, I think all else follows from
the challenges to success to the contributions to society- every last
ounce of potential is in the individual. All else is logistics of
scale, systematization, and mechanization.
Vam
Apr 15, 2012, 6:59:29 AM4/15/12
to "Minds Eye"
Facebook has "Like", Twitter would allow "Retweet", and I could re-pin
on Pinterest ...
Let's say, I am doing all three now !
On Apr 15, 8:57 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is helpful to have an idea of process and structure and it seems to
> me you are both talking about a qualitative/individual aspect to
> education. This is an important focus, I think all else follows from
> the challenges to success to the contributions to society- every last
> ounce of potential is in the individual. All else is logistics of
> scale, systematization, and mechanization.
>
on Pinterest ...
Let's say, I am doing all three now !
On Apr 15, 8:57 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is helpful to have an idea of process and structure and it seems to
> me you are both talking about a qualitative/individual aspect to
> education. This is an important focus, I think all else follows from
> the challenges to success to the contributions to society- every last
> ounce of potential is in the individual. All else is logistics of
> scale, systematization, and mechanization.
>
Æzen
Apr 15, 2012, 8:55:31 AM4/15/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
You may be interested in reading the article from which I have taken the following excerpt:
"[...]
The truly educated become conscious. They become self-aware. They do
not lie to themselves. They do not pretend that fraud is moral or that
corporate greed is good. They do not claim that the demands of the
marketplace can morally justify the hunger of children or denial of
medical care to the sick. They do not throw 6 million families from
their homes as the cost of doing business. Thought
is a dialogue with one’s inner self. Those who think ask questions,
questions those in authority do not want asked. They remember who we
are, where we come from and where we should go. They remain eternally
skeptical and distrustful of power. And they know that this moral
independence is the only protection from the radical evil that results
from collective unconsciousness. The capacity to think is the only
bulwark against any centralized authority that seeks to impose mindless
obedience. There is a huge difference, as Socrates understood, between
teaching people what to think and teaching them how to think. Those who
are endowed with a moral conscience refuse to commit crimes, even those
sanctioned by the corporate state, because they do not in the end want
to live with criminals—themselves.
www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_the_united_states_is_destroying_her_education_system_20110410/
"[...]
The truly educated become conscious. They become self-aware. They do
not lie to themselves. They do not pretend that fraud is moral or that
corporate greed is good. They do not claim that the demands of the
marketplace can morally justify the hunger of children or denial of
medical care to the sick. They do not throw 6 million families from
their homes as the cost of doing business. Thought
is a dialogue with one’s inner self. Those who think ask questions,
questions those in authority do not want asked. They remember who we
are, where we come from and where we should go. They remain eternally
skeptical and distrustful of power. And they know that this moral
independence is the only protection from the radical evil that results
from collective unconsciousness. The capacity to think is the only
bulwark against any centralized authority that seeks to impose mindless
obedience. There is a huge difference, as Socrates understood, between
teaching people what to think and teaching them how to think. Those who
are endowed with a moral conscience refuse to commit crimes, even those
sanctioned by the corporate state, because they do not in the end want
to live with criminals—themselves.
Advertisement
“It is better to be at odds with the whole world than, being one, to be at odds with myself,” Socrates said. [...]"
www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_the_united_states_is_destroying_her_education_system_20110410/
James Lynch
Apr 15, 2012, 10:23:21 AM4/15/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I oscillate between visionary and lunatic fringe. If one liners paid
the bills I'd be a millionaire, the exercise comes in the unpacking so
a wee bit of sarcasm may be in order. Thanks Vam ;-)
the bills I'd be a millionaire, the exercise comes in the unpacking so
a wee bit of sarcasm may be in order. Thanks Vam ;-)
--
Please do not put me on forwarding lists or submit my address to cute
online greetings or anything else for that matter. If you must, please
forward me in BCC and send me a link to cute greetings. Many thanks!
archytas
Apr 15, 2012, 11:36:46 PM4/15/12
to "Minds Eye"
I'm struck that universal education has failed us. I'd go for
deschooling and have education after 14 voluntary and much more
related to practice (not necessarily work). Current university
programmes should be available on television and available free with
Internet supervision from university hubs where academics work in the
community and social and sports events are also civic rather than
separated as now. Education is currently a government scam and an
export scam.
On Apr 15, 3:23 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I oscillate between visionary and lunatic fringe. If one liners paid
> the bills I'd be a millionaire, the exercise comes in the unpacking so
> a wee bit of sarcasm may be in order. Thanks Vam ;-)
>
deschooling and have education after 14 voluntary and much more
related to practice (not necessarily work). Current university
programmes should be available on television and available free with
Internet supervision from university hubs where academics work in the
community and social and sports events are also civic rather than
separated as now. Education is currently a government scam and an
export scam.
On Apr 15, 3:23 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I oscillate between visionary and lunatic fringe. If one liners paid
> the bills I'd be a millionaire, the exercise comes in the unpacking so
> a wee bit of sarcasm may be in order. Thanks Vam ;-)
>
rigsy03
Apr 16, 2012, 7:28:42 AM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
The education system has become a means of sorting out the population
and not necessarily a government scam anymore than one that eases the
selections of politics, business, society and so on. It was probably
tidier in the Middle Ages with an overall system of belief and
practice.
> > forward me in BCC and send me a link to cute greetings. Many thanks!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
and not necessarily a government scam anymore than one that eases the
selections of politics, business, society and so on. It was probably
tidier in the Middle Ages with an overall system of belief and
practice.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Molly
Apr 16, 2012, 7:50:15 AM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
This link is not functional.
On Apr 15, 8:55 am, Æzen <ae...@msn.com> wrote:
> You may be interested in reading the article from which I have taken the
> following excerpt:
>
> "[...] The truly educated become conscious. They become self-aware. They do
> not lie to themselves. They do not pretend that fraud is moral or that
> corporate greed is good. They do not claim that the demands of the
> marketplace can morally justify the hunger of children or denial of medical
> care to the sick. They do not throw 6 million families from their homes as
> the cost of doing business. Thought is a dialogue with one’s inner self.
> Those who think ask questions, questions those in authority do not want
> asked. They remember who we are, where we come from and where we should go.
> They remain eternally skeptical and distrustful of power. And they know
> that this moral independence is the only protection from the radical evil
> that results from collective unconsciousness. The capacity to think is the
> only bulwark against any centralized authority that seeks to impose
> mindless obedience. There is a huge difference, as Socrates understood,
> between teaching people what to think and teaching them how to think. Those
> who are endowed with a moral conscience refuse to commit crimes, even those
> sanctioned by the corporate state, because they do not in the end want to
> live with criminals—themselves.
>
> Advertisement
> “It is better to be at odds with the whole world than, being one, to be at
> odds with myself,” Socrates said. [...]"www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_the_united_states_is_destroying_her_...
On Apr 15, 8:55 am, Æzen <ae...@msn.com> wrote:
> You may be interested in reading the article from which I have taken the
> following excerpt:
>
> "[...] The truly educated become conscious. They become self-aware. They do
> not lie to themselves. They do not pretend that fraud is moral or that
> corporate greed is good. They do not claim that the demands of the
> marketplace can morally justify the hunger of children or denial of medical
> care to the sick. They do not throw 6 million families from their homes as
> the cost of doing business. Thought is a dialogue with one’s inner self.
> Those who think ask questions, questions those in authority do not want
> asked. They remember who we are, where we come from and where we should go.
> They remain eternally skeptical and distrustful of power. And they know
> that this moral independence is the only protection from the radical evil
> that results from collective unconsciousness. The capacity to think is the
> only bulwark against any centralized authority that seeks to impose
> mindless obedience. There is a huge difference, as Socrates understood,
> between teaching people what to think and teaching them how to think. Those
> who are endowed with a moral conscience refuse to commit crimes, even those
> sanctioned by the corporate state, because they do not in the end want to
> live with criminals—themselves.
>
> Advertisement
> “It is better to be at odds with the whole world than, being one, to be at
archytas
Apr 16, 2012, 10:43:50 AM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
I'm not sure aezen is functional Molly.
pol.science kid
Apr 16, 2012, 11:39:15 AM4/16/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Hey the link worked for me... --
EverComing
EverComing
pol.science kid
Apr 16, 2012, 12:42:18 PM4/16/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Umm.. I dont know if Aezen is now a part of the group or not but ill still reply to him... even we in our country face a similar problem, of this robotic teaching... senseless rote learning. But i am really dissappointed with our syllabus change our school board did.. i think in trying to make stuff easier.. they are giving the people trash..i mean it.. i can confidently say.. I did not learn anything in school .. it was only after going to college that i began to think about stuff.. and it came like a bullet train.. and i was thinking.. what crap were they feeding me in school. The thing is.. not making the curriculum easy.. but giving time to the essential things...I cant think of alternative ways...I think it'll always be controversial ..what to teach the younger generation.. I think.. what worked for me in college was that i got a lot of my own time.. --
EverComing
EverComing
Vam
Apr 16, 2012, 3:01:37 PM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
" ... what to teach the younger generation..."
History, in truth. Science. Literature.
Art. Sports.
Current Political and Socio-Economic Issues.
& Computers... www.
On Apr 16, 9:42 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Umm.. I dont know if Aezen is now a part of the group or not but ill still
> reply to him... even we in our country face a similar problem, of this
> robotic teaching... senseless rote learning. But i am really dissappointed
> with our syllabus change our school board did.. i think in trying to make
> stuff easier.. they are giving the people trash..i mean it.. i can
> confidently say.. I did not learn anything in school .. it was only after
> going to college that i began to think about stuff.. and it came like a
> bullet train.. and i was thinking.. what crap were they feeding me in
> school. The thing is.. not making the curriculum easy.. but giving time to
> the essential things...I cant think of alternative ways...I think it'll
> always be controversial ..what to teach the younger generation.. I think..
> what worked for me in college was that i got a lot of my own time..
>
History, in truth. Science. Literature.
Art. Sports.
Current Political and Socio-Economic Issues.
& Computers... www.
On Apr 16, 9:42 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Umm.. I dont know if Aezen is now a part of the group or not but ill still
> reply to him... even we in our country face a similar problem, of this
> robotic teaching... senseless rote learning. But i am really dissappointed
> with our syllabus change our school board did.. i think in trying to make
> stuff easier.. they are giving the people trash..i mean it.. i can
> confidently say.. I did not learn anything in school .. it was only after
> going to college that i began to think about stuff.. and it came like a
> bullet train.. and i was thinking.. what crap were they feeding me in
> school. The thing is.. not making the curriculum easy.. but giving time to
> the essential things...I cant think of alternative ways...I think it'll
> always be controversial ..what to teach the younger generation.. I think..
> what worked for me in college was that i got a lot of my own time..
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:09 PM, pol.science kid <r.freeb...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey the link worked for me...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey the link worked for me...
>
Vam
Apr 16, 2012, 3:03:11 PM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
Science... inclusive of Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry n Biology.
Molly
Apr 16, 2012, 6:04:54 PM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
When I switched to the new google groups, the link worked. didn't
work when I switched back. I suppose I will have to switch for good
eventually.
work when I switched back. I suppose I will have to switch for good
eventually.
Molly
Apr 16, 2012, 6:06:26 PM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
I think that critical thinking, negotiation/argumentation,
organization, and information research would be good classes.
organization, and information research would be good classes.
Vam
Apr 16, 2012, 6:47:43 PM4/16/12
to "Minds Eye"
Absolutely...
Don Johnson
Apr 16, 2012, 7:50:01 PM4/16/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
We already teach History, Science, Maths, Social Studies(civics) and current events. What is severely lacking is taking ALL of these base courses and applying them to real world applications. Schools used to teach something called Home Economics when I was a kid. World Economics and Business Basics should be taught in grammer school. We've dumbed down school and are churning out future Government Dole Applicants. We should be teaching them how to earn a living not take it for granted. We need more competition and classes that actually challange our kids to attain excellence. Instead school seems more social then competitive these days. It's a crying shame and it's why the U.S. education system is in such decline.
I missed mentioning sports but this is also very important. Competitive sports is a metaphor for life. "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing."
dj
James Lynch
Apr 16, 2012, 11:06:45 PM4/16/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
On 4/16/12, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We already teach History, Science, Maths, Social Studies(civics) and
> current events. What is severely lacking is taking ALL of these base
> courses and applying them to real world applications. Schools used to teach
> something called Home Economics when I was a kid. World Economics and
> Business Basics should be taught in grammer school. We've dumbed down
> school and are churning out future Government Dole Applicants. We should be
> teaching them how to earn a living not take it for granted. We need more
> competition and classes that actually challange our kids to attain
> excellence. Instead school seems more social then competitive these days.
> It's a crying shame and it's why the U.S. education system is in such
> decline.
> We already teach History, Science, Maths, Social Studies(civics) and
> current events. What is severely lacking is taking ALL of these base
> courses and applying them to real world applications. Schools used to teach
> something called Home Economics when I was a kid. World Economics and
> Business Basics should be taught in grammer school. We've dumbed down
> school and are churning out future Government Dole Applicants. We should be
> teaching them how to earn a living not take it for granted. We need more
> competition and classes that actually challange our kids to attain
> excellence. Instead school seems more social then competitive these days.
> It's a crying shame and it's why the U.S. education system is in such
> decline.
I am not as experienced as others here in education but I have the
impression that the failings we see in education are echoes of society
not the other way around. The gov't dole requires kids attend (or
else), it is an overworked and underfunded system that keeps kids off
the streets and out of the labor market decreasing prison populations
and fueling multiple economies. If we look at a cultural cross-section
going from inner-city, urban, suburban, rural with varying
socio-economic conditions, quality of life, and on to exposure and
familiarity with social resources I would say competition is quite
present across the board. What we have is a society composed of
psychologically maladapted humans frantically scrambling about mostly
aimlessly in a post traumatic stupor caused by spending a lifetime in
environments that evolved in every way but those that matter most to
human beings. One could consider it highly successful in that regard.
But that's an opinion (I think), one that doesn't exactly reach
solutions but can contribute some emphasis.
> I missed mentioning sports but this is also very important. Competitive
> sports is a metaphor for life. "Winning isn't everything; it's the only
> thing."
I am skeptical of the character traits required to defeat opponents,
as in war "all is fair".. but I agree on learning to face challenge
with an attitude of expectation and consider sports on the
mid-spectrum of character building skills. Success can go too far in
both directions, whether hopping on the highs of success leaving a
wake of failures or becoming despotic and building nepotistic
oligopolies in life- both are negative parasitic behaviors easily
justified and blindingly so. You are on the money though regarding
attitude I think, but it would take a lot of hard social
reconstruction- otherwise it just sounds like dog eat dog, and that is
what we have now (albeit a more pacified version). Damn I'm longwinded
tonight: I like the 'Ideal', but I've rarely run into anyone with that
attitude who can take serious questions into account.
We should still have sports either way for the reasons you put
forward. :) I'm a little bit of Semper Fi plus a huge bit of Semper
Vigilance.
Allan H
Apr 17, 2012, 2:50:49 AM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I watched a program on the mid evil mind and how they view things.. one of the things that was looked at education and part of it involved islam ,, I always knew that number system was arabic in origin what i found interesting is their interest in the ancient philosophers and mathematics as well as other sciences,, but they did not give much detail on that end..
My question is what happened to islam that it stopped its interest science and mathematics is one of the truly pure sciences it seems all that islam It seems there is no interest in harmony and co-existence is interested in is murder and forcing people to live their set of rules which is contrary to western law.
Allan
Allan H
Apr 17, 2012, 4:03:29 AM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I think the internet is a great place for education.. and i think all basic education should be free especially the "3 R's" "Reading, Riting an Rithmatic" (Sorry could resist) There is a lot of information out there and it might be beneficial to have a location (I have not looked) for curriculum for basic education and also based on interest one designed to bring out natural talent... IMO one of the greatest downfalls of american education is its emphasis on competitive sports at taxpayer expense.. Sports should have nothing to do with education.. and takes away from learning, creating a two class society.. there is nothing wrong with sports but it can be done out side of school.. the taxpayer should not have to support the promotion of major league sports like football and basketball.
Mathematics and the sciences should be supported to the same extreme sports are today. "lol" maybe the would be a much higher form of couch potato.. I see basketball being played out side in public play ground to a great extent. Over here in the Netherlands I see american style football (not soccer) being played by people who have as a club bought their own gear.. (not taxpayer supported ) and neither is football (soccer) taxpayer supported it is all privately funded.. It seems all of the kids (boys and girls) know how to play football or some other sport.. I wonder how the american high school girls would stand up against field hockey scares the hell out of me when I watch it on TV.. The real question is why do taxpayers have to pay for competitive sports instead of education?
Allan
pol.science kid
Apr 17, 2012, 4:16:33 AM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I agree with you that the basic problem is this disconnect between what is being taught and the real deal,so to say. Well, i think it is necessary to place the subject in some context and and not teach it in isolation. And for kids the teachers need to do that first. See, ill give you a first hand experience. Like i said before, i feel my school learning has been zero. But , i left math and science in my higher classes and opted for humanities. i felt i could do better, in humanities. It was fine..only as my reading and perception grows and the ability to place things in a larger context. Sometimes i read some thing related to science and i think.. i never saw it like that. And even wish i had not left science, which brings me to another point, they should make for better interdisciplinary options in higher classes. Which they dont in my country.i dont know about your country. But to continue what i was saying. Somehow.this learning is alienating(school level). we need a living engagement.Of course these divisions are for our convenience and we should know that.Speaking of what should be taught , i feel in schools there is a need to place religion in a sociological context. talk about it scientifically. My country is filled with superstitious and religious people.But to see orhtodoxy in someone my age is a revolting thought to me. I have a lot of respect for mathematicians . since my math isnt great. I used to think theyre out of this world. Well i know this top level gold medal math/physics grad student. Who is superstitious, communal and holds odd notions. Now ive tried to reason with this person, who holds these strange communal notions about muslims. No use. And i think to myself.. dude..where does all your reasoning power go.Actually i know many such people. Also one more thing i feel is that competition is not the answer. I think this will re-enforce this already rote learning , merit obsession. Focus needs to go in framing these methods. What these people think is that you can only shift between easy and difficult. Thats giving no credit to the rationalizing ability of the student. To get better results you need to frame better questions. Putting across good questions is top priority. One needs to know what to you want to question , that will orient the identification of merit. not the simple fact based questions we are fed. Well in our education industry the checking of answer scripts is corruption based. Many sheets go unchecked and are marked randomly by undertrained teachers. This is also true for university level. I can go on and on. But ill stop here. --
EverComing
EverComing
Allan H
Apr 17, 2012, 4:56:04 AM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Poly the one thing i wish I understood better is the Math sciences. I can not tell you why but I just wish I had a much deeper understanding beyond 1 + 1 = 2.. at your age it is time to learn it,, the humanities you are confronted with every day and all beliefs are based of superstition but to tell a person that there beliefs are based off superstition good luck .. That would be like telling the Navajo people their people did not come out of a cave in the ground (because they did).
My beliefs could easily pass for something based on myth but for me they are real enough that no logical argument will change them. How would I know your logical argument is not based of a mythical assumption (sometimes it better to understand than be understood.) India has a very long and ancient history of dealing with spirituality and that is to be admired I read part of the Vegas? interesting I know they ingested some drink, what ever it was it was one hell of a batch of 'kick a poo juice' what ever it was.. and I know drugs are commonly used there for spiritual enlightenment,, right or wrong I do no know.. Yet it seems there are some parts of the world are very prone spiritual enlightenment.. India is one,, the south western part of the americas is another, now the truth is i am not sure about the middle east even though it is the starting point of 3 major religions.. something seems lacking,,
Allan
gabbydott
Apr 17, 2012, 5:51:06 AM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
In a dynamic system that is identifying/defining its static elements a medival mind is something negative whereas the mid-evil mind emphasizes its work-in-progress aspect. In experiencing oneself in a static system one is not given that freedom of interpretation.
rigsy03
Apr 17, 2012, 6:46:39 AM4/17/12
to "Minds Eye"
Girl's ice hockey is hot- so are several other intense sports. Sports
may help tame the teenage beast. Gym and physical fitness should be
required of all students. Outdoor skills can be acquired in Scouts or
camp. Home economics and shop should be required somewhere in the
system. Few seem able to bathe or cook on their own. Unfortunately
life skills- like budgets- are neglected.
Some sports are degrading education but how do you solve that? Sports
is just one of several challenges to taking education seriously. Then
you have to luck out re opportunity in the market place to earn a
living vs a pipe dream of fame and fortune.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
may help tame the teenage beast. Gym and physical fitness should be
required of all students. Outdoor skills can be acquired in Scouts or
camp. Home economics and shop should be required somewhere in the
system. Few seem able to bathe or cook on their own. Unfortunately
life skills- like budgets- are neglected.
Some sports are degrading education but how do you solve that? Sports
is just one of several challenges to taking education seriously. Then
you have to luck out re opportunity in the market place to earn a
living vs a pipe dream of fame and fortune.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
rigsy03
Apr 17, 2012, 7:04:23 AM4/17/12
to "Minds Eye"
Teens use the internet to mostly tweet, don't they? It's a headache
for teachers re plagiarism and skipping original assignments- like
actually reading the assigned book. Television tried to be a tool of
education- look what happened. Teens get their "news" from comics,
mockers and the cynical late-night shows. The ads are ridiculous or
pathetic but spur consumerism anyway. Well, the ancients complained of
their lazy, no-good youths as well so it's not a new problem. What is
new, is that adults have allocated so much power to children starting
with the Boomers- many of whom refuse to grow up themselves- so the
hierarchy system has broken down except for those rare creatures who
renew our faith in youth.
for teachers re plagiarism and skipping original assignments- like
actually reading the assigned book. Television tried to be a tool of
education- look what happened. Teens get their "news" from comics,
mockers and the cynical late-night shows. The ads are ridiculous or
pathetic but spur consumerism anyway. Well, the ancients complained of
their lazy, no-good youths as well so it's not a new problem. What is
new, is that adults have allocated so much power to children starting
with the Boomers- many of whom refuse to grow up themselves- so the
hierarchy system has broken down except for those rare creatures who
renew our faith in youth.
rigsy03
Apr 17, 2012, 7:09:12 AM4/17/12
to "Minds Eye"
It boils down to making a living, however, and humanities is a poor
choice. Lofty thoughts won't pay the bills.
> EverComing- Hide quoted text -
choice. Lofty thoughts won't pay the bills.
Allan H
Apr 17, 2012, 2:39:45 PM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
gabby humanity is till a work in progress,, wonder what ever happened to the dogmen or the fishmen,, then there is the airmen. well you never hear of them now.. the oddity was they were recorded not myth.. twas interesting
Allan
Allan H
Apr 17, 2012, 2:43:28 PM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
not ice hockey Rigsy field hockey ( no padding ) totally different sport.. Home economics and shop should be required for both genders
Allan
Don Johnson
Apr 17, 2012, 7:46:14 PM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Among the 'elite' competition is high, yes. It's the soft bigotry of low expectations that worries me more then anything else. Both from some teachers and particularly from parents. A streamlined education system can fire the former but we can't do piss-all about the latter. How do you make a parent care? Or have time to care more? Parenting is hard work and if you have a struggling child handicapped by mental or physical disorders to deal with then it makes it even worse. Different children have different needs and should be taught in unique tailor made circumstances. What works for one child might not work as well for another. It's why I've always favored the Montessori method for primary schooling.
Also I believe it's important to separate the criminals from those willing and able to learn. By ninth grade if a child hasn't learned it's not ok to steal the only way to teach them is to cart his or her little hiney off to "alternative" school. Some kids need the structure and discipline of this kind of action to learn. In the right environment with the right encouragement some of these kids could make something of themselves eventually and they should be given the chance WITHOUT disrupting the learning of more well behaved children.
Let's not forget, Allan, that violent competitive sports can be a wonderful outlet for adolescent thuggery. Just sayin'.
dj
Don Johnson
Apr 17, 2012, 7:56:31 PM4/17/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
gabby humanity is till a work in progress,, wonder what ever happened to the dogmen or the fishmen,, then there is the airmen. well you never hear of them now.. the oddity was they were recorded not myth.. twas interestingAllan
Allan H
Apr 18, 2012, 2:46:10 AM4/18/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Education needs more financial support not less.. and is a severe problem.. most of which comes from the community failing to meet the needs of educational support and their lack of willingness to pay the cost they could start with by making pay equal that of top executives.. to encourage the best and brightest to go into that profession ,, starting wages should be at say $50,000.oo to $60,000.oo
you will start getting the top minds which is desperately needed..
***** lol ***** response ****
wonderful outlet for adolescent thuggery.?.? well Actually I think it does just the opposite it increases it. The jocks become school approved and blessed adolescent thugs oops I mean bullies.. school honors their activities as are blessed by the school including bulling,, commonly known as the blind eye..
I do know people that have benefited from sports programst,, like a college education but those people seem to have been forced to use the hated sports as the way to get the education they needed.. and what about the children seriously injured doing these activities and then covered up these problems so they are never hear of again... you don't want to disturb their prize program for encouraging adolescent thuggery.
Allan
Allan H
Apr 18, 2012, 2:56:39 AM4/18/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Sorry Don these 'dogs'don't qualify as their heads are not that of dogs that are shown in the ancient manuscripts.. they definitely showed men with heads that look like those of dogs.. hence the name as for fishmen one was caught and then to government approved methods of torture to bring out the truth.. wait a minute according to the news these methods have not changed.. maybe that is what make man civilized is the ability to torture and approve of these actions.
Allan
Molly
Apr 18, 2012, 7:31:25 AM4/18/12
to "Minds Eye"
I raised two boys who both enjoyed sports and one played football in
college. There are many levels of learning involved, including
thinking skills of predicting the opponents plays and adapting to what
is going on during the play within the rules of the game. Learning to
strengthen and condition the body for maximum performance is something
that seems to carry beyond the age of sports participation. Teamwork
and respect for ones team and other teams, for me, was probably the
most important thing they learned and in fact, they taught me a few
things about it while they played.
That is not to say that the things you point out don't occur, Allan.
I think bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do, as I
watched kids who were bullied at home grow up to do the same. The
real crime is that we know people in our communities that bully their
kids and are powerless to do anything about it, other than the
opportune comment to the parent which often brings unintended results
on the child. What we tolerate around us in terms of human behavior
often creates the things we later condemn. that tolerance is
sometimes our own blind spot, sometimes social conditioning and shared
moral code.
> ...
>
> read more »
college. There are many levels of learning involved, including
thinking skills of predicting the opponents plays and adapting to what
is going on during the play within the rules of the game. Learning to
strengthen and condition the body for maximum performance is something
that seems to carry beyond the age of sports participation. Teamwork
and respect for ones team and other teams, for me, was probably the
most important thing they learned and in fact, they taught me a few
things about it while they played.
That is not to say that the things you point out don't occur, Allan.
I think bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do, as I
watched kids who were bullied at home grow up to do the same. The
real crime is that we know people in our communities that bully their
kids and are powerless to do anything about it, other than the
opportune comment to the parent which often brings unintended results
on the child. What we tolerate around us in terms of human behavior
often creates the things we later condemn. that tolerance is
sometimes our own blind spot, sometimes social conditioning and shared
moral code.
>
> read more »
rigsy03
Apr 18, 2012, 9:57:03 AM4/18/12
to "Minds Eye"
I was thinking about this angle also, Molly. I figure sports started
as grooming the best hunters and warriors and evolved into public
entertainment- the Colosseum, the tournaments, etc. It does nuture
team spirit which is helpful in business, warfare and social
loyalties- but it also stresses winning and defeat for the losers. It
does have rules/ codes of conduct- but so do street gangs and
criminals, politics. Our USA sports have become very Hollywood-like
with celebrity status and huge salaries- very beyond the reach of the
average person. Many love sports as entertainment and a sense of
identity as a fan. Maybe it is almost like a religion.
As for this bully business, I think it reflects the breakdown of
social graces which have always been rather fragile anyway.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
as grooming the best hunters and warriors and evolved into public
entertainment- the Colosseum, the tournaments, etc. It does nuture
team spirit which is helpful in business, warfare and social
loyalties- but it also stresses winning and defeat for the losers. It
does have rules/ codes of conduct- but so do street gangs and
criminals, politics. Our USA sports have become very Hollywood-like
with celebrity status and huge salaries- very beyond the reach of the
average person. Many love sports as entertainment and a sense of
identity as a fan. Maybe it is almost like a religion.
As for this bully business, I think it reflects the breakdown of
social graces which have always been rather fragile anyway.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
rigsy03
Apr 18, 2012, 9:58:55 AM4/18/12
to "Minds Eye"
Was Libya a site for torture, I wonder? Maybe that's why it was bombed
to pieces- to destroy the evidence.
On Apr 18, 1:56 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Don these 'dogs'don't qualify as their heads are not that of dogs
> that are shown in the ancient manuscripts.. they definitely showed men
> with heads that look like those of dogs.. hence the name as for fishmen
> one was caught and then to government approved methods of torture to bring
> out the truth.. wait a minute according to the news these methods have not
> changed.. maybe that is what make man civilized is the ability to torture
> and approve of these actions.
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
to pieces- to destroy the evidence.
On Apr 18, 1:56 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Don these 'dogs'don't qualify as their heads are not that of dogs
> that are shown in the ancient manuscripts.. they definitely showed men
> with heads that look like those of dogs.. hence the name as for fishmen
> one was caught and then to government approved methods of torture to bring
> out the truth.. wait a minute according to the news these methods have not
> changed.. maybe that is what make man civilized is the ability to torture
> and approve of these actions.
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> gabby humanity is till a work in progress,, wonder what ever happened to
> >> the dogmen or the fishmen,, then there is the airmen. well you never hear
> >> of them now.. the oddity was they were recorded not myth.. twas interesting
> >> Allan
>
> >> Well, I can answer one of those.....
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDBy5aKFG2k
>
> > dj
>
>
> >> gabby humanity is till a work in progress,, wonder what ever happened to
> >> the dogmen or the fishmen,, then there is the airmen. well you never hear
> >> of them now.. the oddity was they were recorded not myth.. twas interesting
> >> Allan
>
> >> Well, I can answer one of those.....
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDBy5aKFG2k
>
> > dj
>
> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 11:51 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In a dynamic system that is identifying/defining its static elements a
> >>> medival mind is something negative whereas the mid-evil mind emphasizes its
> >>> work-in-progress aspect. In experiencing oneself in a static system one is
> >>> not given that freedom of interpretation.
>
>
> >>> In a dynamic system that is identifying/defining its static elements a
> >>> medival mind is something negative whereas the mid-evil mind emphasizes its
> >>> work-in-progress aspect. In experiencing oneself in a static system one is
> >>> not given that freedom of interpretation.
>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I watched a program on the mid evil mind and how they view things..
> >>>> one of the things that was looked at education and part of it involved
> >>>> islam ,, I always knew that number system was arabic in origin what i
> >>>> found interesting is their interest in the
> >>>> ancient philosophers and mathematics as well as other sciences,, but they
> >>>> did not give much detail on that end..
>
> >>>> My question is what happened to islam that it stopped its interest
> >>>> science and mathematics is one of the truly pure sciences it seems all that
> >>>> islam It seems there is no interest in harmony and
> >>>> co-existence is interested in is murder and forcing people to
> >>>> live their set of rules which is contrary to western law.
> >>>> Allan
>
>
> >>>> I watched a program on the mid evil mind and how they view things..
> >>>> one of the things that was looked at education and part of it involved
> >>>> islam ,, I always knew that number system was arabic in origin what i
> >>>> found interesting is their interest in the
> >>>> ancient philosophers and mathematics as well as other sciences,, but they
> >>>> did not give much detail on that end..
>
> >>>> My question is what happened to islam that it stopped its interest
> >>>> science and mathematics is one of the truly pure sciences it seems all that
> >>>> islam It seems there is no interest in harmony and
> >>>> co-existence is interested in is murder and forcing people to
> >>>> live their set of rules which is contrary to western law.
> >>>> Allan
>
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
rigsy03
Apr 18, 2012, 10:03:33 AM4/18/12
to "Minds Eye"
But home is pretty barren for some- no books, music, art, learning
toys and games, etc.//I seen both sides and both have problems in the
short and long run.//A missing or deadbeat parent is also a problem.
On Apr 17, 6:46 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the 'elite' competition is high, yes. It's the soft bigotry of low
> expectations that worries me more then anything else. Both from some
> teachers and particularly from parents. A streamlined education system can
> fire the former but we can't do piss-all about the latter. How do you make
> a parent care? Or have time to care more? Parenting is hard work and if you
> have a struggling child handicapped by mental or physical disorders to deal
> with then it makes it even worse. Different children have different needs
> and should be taught in unique tailor made circumstances. What works for
> one child might not work as well for another. It's why I've always favored
> the Montessori method for primary schooling.
>
> Also I believe it's important to separate the criminals from those willing
> and able to learn. By ninth grade if a child hasn't learned it's not ok to
> steal the only way to teach them is to cart his or her little hiney off to
> "alternative" school. Some kids need the structure and discipline of this
> kind of action to learn. In the right environment with the right
> encouragement some of these kids could make something of themselves
> eventually and they should be given the chance WITHOUT disrupting the
> learning of more well behaved children.
>
> Let's not forget, Allan, that violent competitive sports can be a wonderful
> outlet for adolescent thuggery. Just sayin'.
>
> dj
>
toys and games, etc.//I seen both sides and both have problems in the
short and long run.//A missing or deadbeat parent is also a problem.
On Apr 17, 6:46 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Among the 'elite' competition is high, yes. It's the soft bigotry of low
> expectations that worries me more then anything else. Both from some
> teachers and particularly from parents. A streamlined education system can
> fire the former but we can't do piss-all about the latter. How do you make
> a parent care? Or have time to care more? Parenting is hard work and if you
> have a struggling child handicapped by mental or physical disorders to deal
> with then it makes it even worse. Different children have different needs
> and should be taught in unique tailor made circumstances. What works for
> one child might not work as well for another. It's why I've always favored
> the Montessori method for primary schooling.
>
> Also I believe it's important to separate the criminals from those willing
> and able to learn. By ninth grade if a child hasn't learned it's not ok to
> steal the only way to teach them is to cart his or her little hiney off to
> "alternative" school. Some kids need the structure and discipline of this
> kind of action to learn. In the right environment with the right
> encouragement some of these kids could make something of themselves
> eventually and they should be given the chance WITHOUT disrupting the
> learning of more well behaved children.
>
> Let's not forget, Allan, that violent competitive sports can be a wonderful
> outlet for adolescent thuggery. Just sayin'.
>
> dj
>
Allan H
Apr 18, 2012, 11:23:41 AM4/18/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Sorry Molly I was one of the kids bullied.. i lived on a farm .. didn't end till the leaded of the group took me on in PE wresling and I got a hole of the back of his neck.. I milked by hand and my fingers had a reasonable amount of strength he did not want to endure.. he promised to leave me alone.. (he was a real ass hole,, ) I have no respect for highschool sports.. and if parants want to suport it that is fine.,, but it should not be supported by the taxpayer.. I see you did not address the injured players..
Allan
gabbydott
Apr 18, 2012, 3:58:59 PM4/18/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
There is a lot of things you don't want to address if you want to keep up the theorem "bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do". But then we've learned to take it functionally sporty, haven't we?
Molly
Apr 18, 2012, 6:23:35 PM4/18/12
to "Minds Eye"
What I meant was, sometimes participating in sports is a bully's best
chance of getting over the behavior because a good coach will not
tolerate the behavior and refer the athlete to social services. Seen
it happen effectively many times. The hero/victim/villain drama is
one that plays out when developmentally, we need to explore each role
and get beyond role playing in drama. The warrior learns he can
deal the fatal blow before he learns the compassion necessary to not
issue the fatal blow with a greater perspective. I do not mean to
excuse bullying. But to address the child bully without addressing
our societal acceptance/denial of child abuse to blame the child. The
issue is bigger and needs to be addressed on every level, including
that part in each of us that we play when we we find this in our
experience, or have a charge about past experience.
On Apr 18, 3:58 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a lot of things you don't want to address if you want to keep up
> the theorem "bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do". But then
> we've learned to take it functionally sporty, haven't we?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry Molly I was one of the kids bullied.. i lived on a farm ..
> > didn't end till the leaded of the group took me on in PE wresling and I
> > got a hole of the back of his neck.. I milked by hand and my fingers had
> > a reasonable amount of strength he did not want to endure.. he promised to
> > leave me alone.. (he was a real ass hole,, ) I have no respect for
> > highschool sports.. and if parants want to suport it that is fine.,,
> > but it should not be supported by the taxpayer.. I see you did not
> > address the injured players..
> > Allan
>
> ...
>
> read more »
chance of getting over the behavior because a good coach will not
tolerate the behavior and refer the athlete to social services. Seen
it happen effectively many times. The hero/victim/villain drama is
one that plays out when developmentally, we need to explore each role
and get beyond role playing in drama. The warrior learns he can
deal the fatal blow before he learns the compassion necessary to not
issue the fatal blow with a greater perspective. I do not mean to
excuse bullying. But to address the child bully without addressing
our societal acceptance/denial of child abuse to blame the child. The
issue is bigger and needs to be addressed on every level, including
that part in each of us that we play when we we find this in our
experience, or have a charge about past experience.
On Apr 18, 3:58 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a lot of things you don't want to address if you want to keep up
> the theorem "bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do". But then
> we've learned to take it functionally sporty, haven't we?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry Molly I was one of the kids bullied.. i lived on a farm ..
> > didn't end till the leaded of the group took me on in PE wresling and I
> > got a hole of the back of his neck.. I milked by hand and my fingers had
> > a reasonable amount of strength he did not want to endure.. he promised to
> > leave me alone.. (he was a real ass hole,, ) I have no respect for
> > highschool sports.. and if parants want to suport it that is fine.,,
> > but it should not be supported by the taxpayer.. I see you did not
> > address the injured players..
> > Allan
>
>
> read more »
Don Johnson
Apr 18, 2012, 7:17:41 PM4/18/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:58 PM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
There is a lot of things you don't want to address if you want to keep up the theorem "bullies will be bullies no matter what else they do". But then we've learned to take it functionally sporty, haven't we?
Molly has a point Gabby. It's not the wrestling or football or the ever popular 'dodge ball' that make the bully although I must admit these games(especially dodge ball) attract the sadist in us all. Is there a greater feeling of power then flipping some other dude on his ass and then sitting on him for 3 seconds? I think not...unless it's creaming some dude in the kisser with a 90 mile an hour big red rubber ball. Hell yes. (I'm kidding!)
Molly's point about bullies getting bullied at home also rings true with me. Bullies are mostly very unhappy not well adjusted people. Perhaps, maybe just maybe, if some of these abused kids can get some self respect playing a sport their attitude will improve. Let me add that I see a difference between hazing and bullying. The former is a long standing tradition that helps mold new members into the fold if done with restraint. It can also weed out the less hardy individuals that might be more suited to, say, the chess club instead of a team sport. The latter is simply to torture the weak for fun and no other reason.
I will agree that a better ALLOCATION of funds is in order for our educational system. The waste is mind boggling. We build palaces fortified like fortresses and in some cases prisons and serve breakfast and lunch and pay administrators enormous salaries to do what? Always ask for more money next year. I say lets teach our kids in trailers. Or better yet rent some of the empty shopping malls and/or business and retail space that's become available since the Recession. Let's have the kids clean up and do routine maintenance with the janitors in charge. It builds character. Wouldn't hurt for the teachers to sweat right along with the students occasionally. Builds rapport and mutual respect.
Hey I'm just brain storming here but that's the kind of school I hope my grandkids go to. If they do it will be a private school I can tell you that.
dj
Allan H
Apr 19, 2012, 3:03:40 AM4/19/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I do see the value to sports,, but sports in the schools absolutely not, sports can teach a a lot of things but they need to be outside of the schools and in clubs like it is over here.. the major reason in school it promotes elitism with the jocks running around in their jackets and measuring their importance as to what they are allowed to get away with strutting around like a bunch of cocks.. with more emphasis on sports than education. this goes right on to the universities.. look at the schools that promote their sports and the justifications for these activities..
Sports need to be out side of schools,,,, believe me I see the amount of sports activities here in Holland and I am amazed. Clubs own their equipment and facilities not supported by taxes.. then children can take part in what they want,, and more importantly the taxpayer does not have to fund these activities.. and the pro football teams (soccer) are having no problem finding top players.
Education needs the best financing available and these funds should not be wasted on sports. and school under no conditions should be rated on their sport teams.. and that includes universities.. schools should be rated on their ability to provide an education,
Education will turn economies around not sports...
Allan
Molly
Apr 19, 2012, 7:41:07 AM4/19/12
to "Minds Eye"
The glamour we give to celebrity may be another thread entirely. I
suppose, getting back to poly si kid's point, that sports is just one
choice, like music or art or shop or theater or student government
that kids choose to participate in to learn social skills. Giving the
choice of elective is important, I think. The Henry Ford model for
education along with the governmental standards that attempt to make
sure schools are living up to their mandates of educating children may
well be out dated, and we may be better off evolving into something
more tailored to individual ability. With millions of kids to
educate, that design seems daunting to develop. I have seen a few
attempts backfire in my day, and we end up with the same old same
old. Yet we are all here, talking somewhat intelligently, making our
way in the world. I suppose the system deserves credit for teaching
children and making it a priority. Not all world cultures do. In the
end, life is what we make of it. Do our stories tell us, or do we
tell our stories?
On Apr 19, 3:03 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do see the value to sports,, but sports in the schools absolutely not,
> sports can teach a a lot of things but they need to be outside of the
> schools and in clubs like it is over here.. the major reason in school it
> promotes elitism with the jocks running around in their jackets and
> measuring their importance as to what they are allowed to get away
> with strutting around like a bunch of cocks.. with more emphasis on sports
> than education. this goes right on to the universities.. look at the
> schools that promote their sports and the justifications for these
> activities..
>
> Sports need to be out side of schools,,,, believe me I see the amount of
> sports activities here in Holland and I am amazed. Clubs own their
> equipment and facilities not supported by taxes.. then children can take
> part in what they want,, and more importantly the taxpayer does not have
> to fund these activities.. and the pro football teams (soccer) are having
> no problem finding top players.
>
> Education needs the best financing available and these funds should not be
> wasted on sports. and school under no conditions should be rated on their
> sport teams.. and that includes universities.. schools should be rated on
> their ability to provide an education,
>
> Education will turn economies around not sports...
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> read more »
suppose, getting back to poly si kid's point, that sports is just one
choice, like music or art or shop or theater or student government
that kids choose to participate in to learn social skills. Giving the
choice of elective is important, I think. The Henry Ford model for
education along with the governmental standards that attempt to make
sure schools are living up to their mandates of educating children may
well be out dated, and we may be better off evolving into something
more tailored to individual ability. With millions of kids to
educate, that design seems daunting to develop. I have seen a few
attempts backfire in my day, and we end up with the same old same
old. Yet we are all here, talking somewhat intelligently, making our
way in the world. I suppose the system deserves credit for teaching
children and making it a priority. Not all world cultures do. In the
end, life is what we make of it. Do our stories tell us, or do we
tell our stories?
On Apr 19, 3:03 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do see the value to sports,, but sports in the schools absolutely not,
> sports can teach a a lot of things but they need to be outside of the
> schools and in clubs like it is over here.. the major reason in school it
> promotes elitism with the jocks running around in their jackets and
> measuring their importance as to what they are allowed to get away
> with strutting around like a bunch of cocks.. with more emphasis on sports
> than education. this goes right on to the universities.. look at the
> schools that promote their sports and the justifications for these
> activities..
>
> Sports need to be out side of schools,,,, believe me I see the amount of
> sports activities here in Holland and I am amazed. Clubs own their
> equipment and facilities not supported by taxes.. then children can take
> part in what they want,, and more importantly the taxpayer does not have
> to fund these activities.. and the pro football teams (soccer) are having
> no problem finding top players.
>
> Education needs the best financing available and these funds should not be
> wasted on sports. and school under no conditions should be rated on their
> sport teams.. and that includes universities.. schools should be rated on
> their ability to provide an education,
>
> Education will turn economies around not sports...
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Sorry Molly I was one of the kids bullied.. i lived on a farm ..
> >>> didn't end till the leaded of the group took me on in PE wresling and I
> >>> got a hole of the back of his neck.. I milked by hand and my fingers had
> >>> a reasonable amount of strength he did not want to endure.. he promised to
> >>> leave me alone.. (he was a real ass hole,, ) I have no respect for
> >>> highschool sports.. and if parants want to suport it that is fine.,,
> >>> but it should not be supported by the taxpayer.. I see you did not
> >>> address the injured players..
> >>> Allan
>
>
> >>> Sorry Molly I was one of the kids bullied.. i lived on a farm ..
> >>> didn't end till the leaded of the group took me on in PE wresling and I
> >>> got a hole of the back of his neck.. I milked by hand and my fingers had
> >>> a reasonable amount of strength he did not want to endure.. he promised to
> >>> leave me alone.. (he was a real ass hole,, ) I have no respect for
> >>> highschool sports.. and if parants want to suport it that is fine.,,
> >>> but it should not be supported by the taxpayer.. I see you did not
> >>> address the injured players..
> >>> Allan
>
>
> read more »
rigsy03
Apr 19, 2012, 8:58:16 AM4/19/12
to "Minds Eye"
Celebrity is tied up to sports- even at the highschool level- but more
than that, sports is a huge industry overall though I can't cite the
figures involved. And many elected activities are private- such as
music lessons, dance, theater- and paid for by parents as schools have
cut back.//There are several problems here: antiquated buildings,
tenure, drain of pensions, urban violence and drug use, dysfunctional
families, culture clashes, student jobs or home responsibilities that
interfere with learning, contempt for knowledge, etc.//Most lives are
written by others and we just play our part- that world/stage bit from
"As You Like It"- Shakespeare.
than that, sports is a huge industry overall though I can't cite the
figures involved. And many elected activities are private- such as
music lessons, dance, theater- and paid for by parents as schools have
cut back.//There are several problems here: antiquated buildings,
tenure, drain of pensions, urban violence and drug use, dysfunctional
families, culture clashes, student jobs or home responsibilities that
interfere with learning, contempt for knowledge, etc.//Most lives are
written by others and we just play our part- that world/stage bit from
"As You Like It"- Shakespeare.
rigsy03
Apr 19, 2012, 9:17:06 AM4/19/12
to "Minds Eye"
It was laws that we really owe to Babylon and the eastern trade routes
plus the East was able to save knowledge resources during the Dark
Ages after the barbarian invasions. Their conquest was swift and
brutal of the West though defeated and pushed back and it's pay-back
for that and the Crusades. BenLadin=the new Saladin?
You say mid-evil and I say Medieval...? The present international
banking system is beholden to the Knights Templar system. I heard KT
mentioned re Anders Breivik just yesterday but presume it has to do
with his anti-Islam "mission".
Our alphabet also evolved from the East- math and language being a
necessity of trade.
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
plus the East was able to save knowledge resources during the Dark
Ages after the barbarian invasions. Their conquest was swift and
brutal of the West though defeated and pushed back and it's pay-back
for that and the Crusades. BenLadin=the new Saladin?
You say mid-evil and I say Medieval...? The present international
banking system is beholden to the Knights Templar system. I heard KT
mentioned re Anders Breivik just yesterday but presume it has to do
with his anti-Islam "mission".
Our alphabet also evolved from the East- math and language being a
necessity of trade.
Allan H
Apr 19, 2012, 10:03:45 AM4/19/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
You are right Rigsy it is medieval just could not find it in the spell checker (not very bright huh) as for Breivik I think he is creating a fantasy.. though I know of that ate very much against the muslim influnce they are not secret organizations, but here in the Netherlands a political party.. and they are very vocal.. and the feelings are quite wide spread..
I can not help but think that Breivik is trying to be another Hitler instead of the Jews being the focal point it is Muslims he is trying to work up the anti - what ever sentiment to stir up trouble and get people to follow him blindly.. but I do not think he as as bright as he see himself as.
Allan
gabbydott
Apr 19, 2012, 12:28:53 PM4/19/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
You are creating your own reality by telling your stories, Molly. I don't find that you are talking intelligently here and also I cannot remember you said you ever left the U.S. to make your way in the world. I see though that your dozing into the bubble world by writing does you good. The bully in the course of the text has turned into the child who is bulling. That's a big step forward, Molly, well done! It does allow the child to carry other attributes as well. It does allow also the medium-good coach to not exclude the child from the group and send it out to some social workers, but to have the child be the referee for this lesson, for example. But that won't bring glamour to either of them, will it?
pol.science kid
Apr 20, 2012, 4:34:53 AM4/20/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I hate breivik..
--
EverComing
EverComing
Molly
Apr 20, 2012, 6:50:24 AM4/20/12
to "Minds Eye"
seems a good enough place to aim that emotion
On Apr 20, 4:34 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hate breivik..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are right Rigsy it is medieval just could not find it in the spell
> > checker (not very bright huh) as for Breivik I think he is creating
> > a fantasy.. though I know of that ate very much against the
> > muslim influnce they are not secret organizations, but here in the
> > Netherlands a political party.. and they are very vocal.. and the feelings
> > are quite wide spread..
>
> > I can not help but think that Breivik is trying to be another Hitler
> > instead of the Jews being the focal point it is Muslims he is trying to
> > work up the anti - what ever sentiment to stir up trouble and get people to
> > follow him blindly.. but I do not think he as as bright as he see
> > himself as.
> > Allan
>
> ...
>
> read more »
On Apr 20, 4:34 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hate breivik..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are right Rigsy it is medieval just could not find it in the spell
> > checker (not very bright huh) as for Breivik I think he is creating
> > a fantasy.. though I know of that ate very much against the
> > muslim influnce they are not secret organizations, but here in the
> > Netherlands a political party.. and they are very vocal.. and the feelings
> > are quite wide spread..
>
> > I can not help but think that Breivik is trying to be another Hitler
> > instead of the Jews being the focal point it is Muslims he is trying to
> > work up the anti - what ever sentiment to stir up trouble and get people to
> > follow him blindly.. but I do not think he as as bright as he see
> > himself as.
> > Allan
>
>
> read more »
Molly
Apr 20, 2012, 7:02:36 AM4/20/12
to "Minds Eye"
Continuing our education by being our own teacher and applying the
skills we graduate with, at whatever grade level, also depends on our
own psychological aptitudes and learned abilities. Whether we become
our own teacher, continue to seek teacher/mentors, or begin to teach
others ourselves - we assume and assign roles as a way to relate to
our experience. Each of us is responsible for our own learning. The
ability to learn, while innate, varies between us. One system that
fits all may be a pipe dream, but each of us can engage fully and take
what is possible for us at the time - as is our human experience. Our
systems (ourselves and fellow humans) may seem flawed, but there is no
reason that should limit us from full engagement in the learning
process. If we can teach our kids that, we teach them full speed
ahead.
> ...
>
> read more »
skills we graduate with, at whatever grade level, also depends on our
own psychological aptitudes and learned abilities. Whether we become
our own teacher, continue to seek teacher/mentors, or begin to teach
others ourselves - we assume and assign roles as a way to relate to
our experience. Each of us is responsible for our own learning. The
ability to learn, while innate, varies between us. One system that
fits all may be a pipe dream, but each of us can engage fully and take
what is possible for us at the time - as is our human experience. Our
systems (ourselves and fellow humans) may seem flawed, but there is no
reason that should limit us from full engagement in the learning
process. If we can teach our kids that, we teach them full speed
ahead.
>
> read more »
rigsy03
Apr 20, 2012, 8:00:20 AM4/20/12
to "Minds Eye"
And here I thought you had made a very clever pun! :-) I do remember
you explained your spelling- but it has not been a problem for me.//I
can't understand the Knights Templar becoming a template for Breivik
except for the Crusades- I suppose it depends on how you have read
their history- great wealth betrayed by the French king and Pope.//I
have seen a good deal of hypocrisy in the Liberals between their
personal and public positions so I am wary, perhaps. I think that
humans are still nomadic- chasing moolah instead of the moo's of their
herds- but this is intensified by wars, economic imbalances and
distribution of power/freedom.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
you explained your spelling- but it has not been a problem for me.//I
can't understand the Knights Templar becoming a template for Breivik
except for the Crusades- I suppose it depends on how you have read
their history- great wealth betrayed by the French king and Pope.//I
have seen a good deal of hypocrisy in the Liberals between their
personal and public positions so I am wary, perhaps. I think that
humans are still nomadic- chasing moolah instead of the moo's of their
herds- but this is intensified by wars, economic imbalances and
distribution of power/freedom.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Allan H
Apr 20, 2012, 9:41:59 AM4/20/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
No it was not a clever pun just my poor spelling but it was the best i could do to get the idea across;; now the Knights Templar seems to me was a medieval group back from the crusades .. actually they (the original still exist) ended up in Malta and it is something that you can not join but have to be asked.. Money helps but it is in what you have to offer as it in reality is a huge charity originally it came from the original knights templar and it is strikingly an honorary thing and you better be able to lay out the big bucks and be willing not to get credit.. and there is also the code you must follow in your daily life.. the points of the Maltese cross.. interesting organization.. (yes i do know some people who are members but i do not know them personally (the royal family of the Netherlands are members))
Don't be fooled by the 'want to be.'
Allan
rigsy03
Apr 22, 2012, 8:38:23 AM4/22/12
to "Minds Eye"
The Maltese Cross is associated with the Knights of St. John, Allan-
also Hospitaliers. Yes, the eight points denote virtues. The Knights
Templar are associated with the island of Cyprus and their cross is
different. Not sure about the Teutonic Knights in current terms nor
the Knights of Columbus for that matter. It's a complicated subject
and I remember what a struggle it was to read Eco's "Foucault's
Pendulum" when it came out and may have given up and hauled it back to
the library- anyway, he claims his theory was a spoof.
also Hospitaliers. Yes, the eight points denote virtues. The Knights
Templar are associated with the island of Cyprus and their cross is
different. Not sure about the Teutonic Knights in current terms nor
the Knights of Columbus for that matter. It's a complicated subject
and I remember what a struggle it was to read Eco's "Foucault's
Pendulum" when it came out and may have given up and hauled it back to
the library- anyway, he claims his theory was a spoof.
Allan H
Apr 22, 2012, 2:30:22 PM4/22/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Rigsy Pack up your bag and head off to Malta for a couple of months or so,, so good old fashion sight seeing.. they have an interesting history even more interesting in person..
Allan
rigsy03
Apr 23, 2012, 10:17:26 AM4/23/12
to "Minds Eye"
Don't tempt me! :-) //I was thinking yesterday that there are likely
many Europeans that became permanent in the Middle East due to the
Crusades and just dissolved into the population over the centuries-
maybe those left behind after the defeats or those who were kidnapped
as slaves by the Muslims.//Anyway, the irony of middle class security
is that it is also a complicated trap.
many Europeans that became permanent in the Middle East due to the
Crusades and just dissolved into the population over the centuries-
maybe those left behind after the defeats or those who were kidnapped
as slaves by the Muslims.//Anyway, the irony of middle class security
is that it is also a complicated trap.
Allan H
Apr 24, 2012, 2:17:45 AM4/24/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Malta well it is an extremely dedicate tourist destination,, and extremely safe it is my favorite destination.. all though there are many.. Don't put it off or you will never get there,, Rigsy get your passport and book your flight
Allan
rigsy03
Apr 28, 2012, 10:34:14 AM4/28/12
to "Minds Eye"
One problem is a system designed for the masses- one size fits all,
unrealistic expectations, success myths, etc. Sometimes the "school of
hard knocks" is the real diploma in life because it is not theoretical
but very real- if you want to acknowledge reality, that is. Recently,
there was a blurb somewhere about an exchange between Rousseau and
Voltaire: R- Life can be hard. V- And the alternative is? Am rereading
"Candide" as a detour presently- it still zings!//Anyway, what
benefits rural children unless they give up for the lure of cities?
Math and reading, computer skills/commodity markets, health and
homemaking education including safe water and pesticides, etc., family
planning, challenges to legal and religious ignorance and violence, a
roomy space for expression in the various arts. One might stress the
comfort of being an individual in a small community versus invisible
city dwellers. All of the above, presented in an age appropriate
manner, of course.
On Apr 12, 9:43 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recently, i was part of some filed work in a village ... we were
> looking into primary education there.... well.. while doing the
> report.. i thought i couldnt really understand education.. clearly
> what works for the city kids wouldnt work for those in the rural
> side..most of them do think theyre wasting their time...teachers hate
> the kids kids hate the teachers..everyone is bitching... the situation
unrealistic expectations, success myths, etc. Sometimes the "school of
hard knocks" is the real diploma in life because it is not theoretical
but very real- if you want to acknowledge reality, that is. Recently,
there was a blurb somewhere about an exchange between Rousseau and
Voltaire: R- Life can be hard. V- And the alternative is? Am rereading
"Candide" as a detour presently- it still zings!//Anyway, what
benefits rural children unless they give up for the lure of cities?
Math and reading, computer skills/commodity markets, health and
homemaking education including safe water and pesticides, etc., family
planning, challenges to legal and religious ignorance and violence, a
roomy space for expression in the various arts. One might stress the
comfort of being an individual in a small community versus invisible
city dwellers. All of the above, presented in an age appropriate
manner, of course.
On Apr 12, 9:43 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recently, i was part of some filed work in a village ... we were
> looking into primary education there.... well.. while doing the
> report.. i thought i couldnt really understand education.. clearly
> what works for the city kids wouldnt work for those in the rural
> side..most of them do think theyre wasting their time...teachers hate
> the kids kids hate the teachers..everyone is bitching... the situation
rigsy03
Apr 28, 2012, 10:53:49 AM4/28/12
to "Minds Eye"
I was thinking of hitting the Netherland coffee shops before they are
forbidden to non-citizens...or could you lend out your membership
card? :-)//Seriously, I will see how it goes tomorrow with an old
friend. He would be great fun to travel with IF this were "the best of
all possible worlds" but what do I read and hear everyday? Riots,
suicide bombers, pirates, sinking or stinking cruise ships, no smoking
rules, bed-bugs, etc.
forbidden to non-citizens...or could you lend out your membership
card? :-)//Seriously, I will see how it goes tomorrow with an old
friend. He would be great fun to travel with IF this were "the best of
all possible worlds" but what do I read and hear everyday? Riots,
suicide bombers, pirates, sinking or stinking cruise ships, no smoking
rules, bed-bugs, etc.
Allan H
Apr 28, 2012, 4:41:48 PM4/28/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
You have me there Rigsy I really don't as I don't use. Wife said it.us a passport thing even as we speak. It is a new law and all ready in effect.
They don't mind citizen using but others including Europeans are no longer included.
I can even grow 5 plants for my own use no problem. My residency is to precious to risk. But I will look into it for you
Come anyway
Allan
Allan H
Apr 28, 2012, 4:54:28 PM4/28/12
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Rigsy what riots? What bombers? Europe is safer than the states. I will write you a better message when I get on my computer, right now I am jaunty phone
Allan
On Apr 28, 2012 4:53 PM, "rigsy03" <rig...@yahoo.com> wrote:
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