Is Wagner Bad For Us?
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archytas
Apr 3, 2013, 4:17:44 PM4/3/13
to "Minds Eye"
Respecting boundaries was not Wagner’s thing. Transgression he took in
his stride – stealing other men’s wives when he needed them, spending
other people’s money without worrying too much about paying it back –
while artistically his ambitions knew no bounds. There is something
awe-inspiring about his productivity under hostile conditions, the
way, though living on the breadline, he turned out masterpieces when
there was no reasonable prospect of any of them being performed:
gigantic works, pushing singers and musicians to the limits of their
technique, and taking music itself to the edges of its known universe.
Theft; the breaking of vows, promises and contracts; seduction,
adultery, incest, disobedience, defiance of the gods, daring to ask
the one forbidden question, the renunciation of love for power,
genital self-mutilation as the price of magic: Wagner’s work is
everywhere preoccupied with boundaries set and overstepped, limits
reached and exceeded. ‘Wagnerian’ has passed into our language as a
byword for the exorbitant, the over-scaled and the interminable.
Wagner has kept me awake at night. Sleepless, I turn my thoughts to
Tristan und Isolde, Wagner’s most extreme work and the plus ultra of
love stories, and I notice a kinship between aspects of Tristan and
Isolde’s passion and the experience of a certain kind of insomnia. The
second act of Tristan und Isolde is Romanticism’s greatest hymn to the
night, not for the elfin charm and ethereal chiaroscuro of moonbeams
and starlight, the territory of Chopin and Debussy, but night as a
close bosom-friend of oblivion, a simulacrum of eternity and a place
to play dead. Insomnia is a refusal to cross the boundary between
waking and sleeping, a bid to outwit Terminus by hiding away in
‘soundless dark’, a zone beyond time. As garlic is to vampires, so
clocks are to insomniacs, not because they tell of how much sleep has
been missed, but because they bring the next day nearer. As Philip
Larkin, poet of limits, knew so well, sleep has the one big
disadvantage that we wake up from it: ‘In time the curtain edges will
grow light,’ he wrote in ‘Aubade’, bringing ‘Unresting death, a whole
day nearer now’. For Tristan and Isolde, too, night must not give way
to day, not for the trivial reason that day will end their love-
making, but because dawn brings death one day nearer. They must stay
awake, for to sleep is to allow the night to pass, to awake from the
night is to live and to live is to die. And when, inevitably, day
dawns, they have only one recourse. To Tristan and Isolde, in their
delirium, it seems that by dying they will preserve their love for
ever: by dying, they will defy death.
'Utter rot' the scientist in me says, knowing science is a product of
madness that can be demonstrated. Wagner is bad for us. And I think
to science again - the science that dares to tell us the table is
mostly nothing, with nothing curved space, unseen forces, the
individual not Jack or Jill of thought in Idol boundaries.
his stride – stealing other men’s wives when he needed them, spending
other people’s money without worrying too much about paying it back –
while artistically his ambitions knew no bounds. There is something
awe-inspiring about his productivity under hostile conditions, the
way, though living on the breadline, he turned out masterpieces when
there was no reasonable prospect of any of them being performed:
gigantic works, pushing singers and musicians to the limits of their
technique, and taking music itself to the edges of its known universe.
Theft; the breaking of vows, promises and contracts; seduction,
adultery, incest, disobedience, defiance of the gods, daring to ask
the one forbidden question, the renunciation of love for power,
genital self-mutilation as the price of magic: Wagner’s work is
everywhere preoccupied with boundaries set and overstepped, limits
reached and exceeded. ‘Wagnerian’ has passed into our language as a
byword for the exorbitant, the over-scaled and the interminable.
Wagner has kept me awake at night. Sleepless, I turn my thoughts to
Tristan und Isolde, Wagner’s most extreme work and the plus ultra of
love stories, and I notice a kinship between aspects of Tristan and
Isolde’s passion and the experience of a certain kind of insomnia. The
second act of Tristan und Isolde is Romanticism’s greatest hymn to the
night, not for the elfin charm and ethereal chiaroscuro of moonbeams
and starlight, the territory of Chopin and Debussy, but night as a
close bosom-friend of oblivion, a simulacrum of eternity and a place
to play dead. Insomnia is a refusal to cross the boundary between
waking and sleeping, a bid to outwit Terminus by hiding away in
‘soundless dark’, a zone beyond time. As garlic is to vampires, so
clocks are to insomniacs, not because they tell of how much sleep has
been missed, but because they bring the next day nearer. As Philip
Larkin, poet of limits, knew so well, sleep has the one big
disadvantage that we wake up from it: ‘In time the curtain edges will
grow light,’ he wrote in ‘Aubade’, bringing ‘Unresting death, a whole
day nearer now’. For Tristan and Isolde, too, night must not give way
to day, not for the trivial reason that day will end their love-
making, but because dawn brings death one day nearer. They must stay
awake, for to sleep is to allow the night to pass, to awake from the
night is to live and to live is to die. And when, inevitably, day
dawns, they have only one recourse. To Tristan and Isolde, in their
delirium, it seems that by dying they will preserve their love for
ever: by dying, they will defy death.
'Utter rot' the scientist in me says, knowing science is a product of
madness that can be demonstrated. Wagner is bad for us. And I think
to science again - the science that dares to tell us the table is
mostly nothing, with nothing curved space, unseen forces, the
individual not Jack or Jill of thought in Idol boundaries.
rigs
Apr 4, 2013, 5:31:29 AM4/4/13
to "Minds Eye"
Was doing fine till the last paragraph. Will be busy with family until
the end of the week and about the last item I want whirling around in
my head is a discussion of Wagner! :-) It is a delicious topic as
there are so many possible avenues of response.
the end of the week and about the last item I want whirling around in
my head is a discussion of Wagner! :-) It is a delicious topic as
there are so many possible avenues of response.
Molly
Apr 4, 2013, 8:11:14 AM4/4/13
to "Minds Eye"
Myth speaks to the process of becoming, processes that are constantly
ongoing in each and all of us. We all "die daily" in life, leaving
behind the old and now dysfunctional for greater possibility and
integration. Tristan and Isolde unite and integrate in the darkness
of the unseen in us, male and female aspects, to transcend the
boundaries of culture and unite in the eternal promise of possibility
realized in the light of day. We may read Jack and Jill. But we live
Tristan and Isolde. Always.
ongoing in each and all of us. We all "die daily" in life, leaving
behind the old and now dysfunctional for greater possibility and
integration. Tristan and Isolde unite and integrate in the darkness
of the unseen in us, male and female aspects, to transcend the
boundaries of culture and unite in the eternal promise of possibility
realized in the light of day. We may read Jack and Jill. But we live
Tristan and Isolde. Always.
Gabby
Apr 4, 2013, 10:54:08 AM4/4/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Wagner is as bad as God is dead. What was revolutionary about Bacon's idols was the new four-step. The meta that rules metacognition being made danceable.
archytas
Apr 4, 2013, 5:20:57 PM4/4/13
to "Minds Eye"
Never really read Bacon Gabs - couldn't get past the overture of
lickspittling the King. There were eleven dotted around the Idol
dance. I'm watching BBC highbrow now and it started with a man who
saw an advert for a remake of The French Connection starring Justin
Bieber and gives up on life completely. I can go with Molly's
interpretation, at least if I'm on enough Molly (the hip term for the
latest club drug, apparently). Rigs' probably has the best idea,
having run off. Wagner is bad for us, but less harm than sugar. If
God lives who will hunt him down this time, now I don't do that kind
of stuff?
The 'new shade of black' is possibly BBC 2's 'How TV Ruined Your
Life'. Wagner might just be a pleasant retreat into reality.
lickspittling the King. There were eleven dotted around the Idol
dance. I'm watching BBC highbrow now and it started with a man who
saw an advert for a remake of The French Connection starring Justin
Bieber and gives up on life completely. I can go with Molly's
interpretation, at least if I'm on enough Molly (the hip term for the
latest club drug, apparently). Rigs' probably has the best idea,
having run off. Wagner is bad for us, but less harm than sugar. If
God lives who will hunt him down this time, now I don't do that kind
of stuff?
The 'new shade of black' is possibly BBC 2's 'How TV Ruined Your
Life'. Wagner might just be a pleasant retreat into reality.
Allan H
Apr 5, 2013, 3:13:03 AM4/5/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
was going to sit and listen to Wagner bought an complete set,,it was very expensive and when I started listening,, didn't like it didn't even finish the first CD put it back in the box and that is where it has remained ever since that was 6 plus years ago. I normally listen to classical Music at one time There was enough to go over a week without repeating. sent over 100 CD and I still have 200 more to send.
did't like Wagner why I don't know.
Now went to the Ballet Spartacus it was fantastic..
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(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
gabbydott
Apr 5, 2013, 10:08:35 AM4/5/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I have learned to understand what my mother means with her words through Wagner et al. It took me a bit more than 6 years until I found the switch off button. She taught Noah how to dance to classical music when he was little and stayed there over night. I could sleep, because I knew my father was there too. He made up for the time he didn't have, so the story goes, when we were young. Both reject pills and recommend you to work harder, would you start fantasizing about insomniac states of mind. Nietzsche went mad over that. I have found the techno movement truly liberating.
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
archytas
Apr 5, 2013, 6:08:21 PM4/5/13
to "Minds Eye"
I find Beethoven's 9th rather pleasant and strangely erotic. I'm with
Allan on Wagner though never bought the full set. Act III of the
Walkure does give me a semblance of struggling with the intractable -
but no answers even on whether I side with Wotan or Gabbyhilde
(oops). I only frequented brothels as a cop Gabs and rather suspect
this was Nietzsche's problem rather than brainwork. I sense in Wagner
that one can rewrite it all and that he achieves none of this - much
as Nietzsche. Science is more esoteric and yet returns to
improvement of common sense.
On Apr 5, 3:08 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have learned to understand what my mother means with her words through
> Wagner et al. It took me a bit more than 6 years until I found the switch
> off button. She taught Noah how to dance to classical music when he was
> little and stayed there over night. I could sleep, because I knew my father
> was there too. He made up for the time he didn't have, so the story goes,
> when we were young. Both reject pills and recommend you to work harder,
> would you start fantasizing about insomniac states of mind. Nietzsche went
> mad over that. I have found the techno movement truly liberating.
>
> Am Freitag, 5. April 2013 schrieb Allan H :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > was going to sit and listen to Wagner bought an complete set,,it was very
> > expensive and when I started listening,, didn't like it didn't even finish
> > the first CD put it back in the box and that is where it has remained ever
> > since that was 6 plus years ago. I normally listen to classical Music at
> > one time There was enough to go over a week without repeating. sent over
> > 100 CD and I still have 200 more to send.
>
> > did't like Wagner why I don't know.
>
> > Now went to the Ballet Spartacus it was fantastic..
>
> > email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:_e({},
> > 'cvml', 'minds-eye%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com');>.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Allan on Wagner though never bought the full set. Act III of the
Walkure does give me a semblance of struggling with the intractable -
but no answers even on whether I side with Wotan or Gabbyhilde
(oops). I only frequented brothels as a cop Gabs and rather suspect
this was Nietzsche's problem rather than brainwork. I sense in Wagner
that one can rewrite it all and that he achieves none of this - much
as Nietzsche. Science is more esoteric and yet returns to
improvement of common sense.
On Apr 5, 3:08 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have learned to understand what my mother means with her words through
> Wagner et al. It took me a bit more than 6 years until I found the switch
> off button. She taught Noah how to dance to classical music when he was
> little and stayed there over night. I could sleep, because I knew my father
> was there too. He made up for the time he didn't have, so the story goes,
> when we were young. Both reject pills and recommend you to work harder,
> would you start fantasizing about insomniac states of mind. Nietzsche went
> mad over that. I have found the techno movement truly liberating.
>
> Am Freitag, 5. April 2013 schrieb Allan H :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > was going to sit and listen to Wagner bought an complete set,,it was very
> > expensive and when I started listening,, didn't like it didn't even finish
> > the first CD put it back in the box and that is where it has remained ever
> > since that was 6 plus years ago. I normally listen to classical Music at
> > one time There was enough to go over a week without repeating. sent over
> > 100 CD and I still have 200 more to send.
>
> > did't like Wagner why I don't know.
>
> > Now went to the Ballet Spartacus it was fantastic..
>
> > 'cvml', 'minds-eye%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com');>.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
rigs
Apr 6, 2013, 1:07:54 PM4/6/13
to "Minds Eye"
I find Wagner morbidly romantic but hypnotic, at times. Wagner is very
dangerous whereas poor misunderstood Nietzsche is life affriming. Am
rereading my file from the course which included Kierkegaard, Sartre,
Gide, Mann as well as W and N. Got an A- on the final which I can no
longer readily understand!!! Who was this woman? And to think I
jumped into such a horrid relationship- maybe it was Wagner's
fault! :-) Anyway- am still a little blue saying goodbye to adult
child who makes the mistake make sense- she is a delight. Will go over
some other related stuff.
dangerous whereas poor misunderstood Nietzsche is life affriming. Am
rereading my file from the course which included Kierkegaard, Sartre,
Gide, Mann as well as W and N. Got an A- on the final which I can no
longer readily understand!!! Who was this woman? And to think I
jumped into such a horrid relationship- maybe it was Wagner's
fault! :-) Anyway- am still a little blue saying goodbye to adult
child who makes the mistake make sense- she is a delight. Will go over
some other related stuff.
rigs
Apr 6, 2013, 1:13:46 PM4/6/13
to "Minds Eye"
Not by reason alone. Must have a balanced mix of the Appolonian and
Dionysian- even in sciences. Actually, in the living of one's life.
> > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dionysian- even in sciences. Actually, in the living of one's life.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Allan H
Apr 6, 2013, 2:18:26 PM4/6/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Now I like Sartre have about 6 CD's all piano works,, an fascinated with the one that is basically single notes.. lately I have been more interested in pieces staring single insterments am trying to understand their sounds..
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gabbydott
Apr 6, 2013, 6:56:21 PM4/6/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Do you mean Erik Satie? Haha, yeah, that surely helps with sleeping problems. French existentialism tangents this nicely.
Allan H
Apr 7, 2013, 6:10:37 AM4/7/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Yes that is the one Gabby,, I only have his piano works,, and I like his minimalist approach. I am not an authority by any means. I have preferences one of them is not being assaulted with excessive sound..and I like being able to hear the individual instruments.. I have no classical training what ever with the exception of two pieces of Grieg.. and of course the flight of the bumble bee..
I walked out on a live jimmy Hendricks concert.. just loud and garbage,, so my opinion is my own totally based on whether I like it or not. How can you fall asleep listing to satie piano works they are so delicate..archytas
Apr 7, 2013, 3:57:52 PM4/7/13
to "Minds Eye"
There was a horse running in the Grand National called Weird Al - so I
had a bet thinking 'omen'. It ran as well as a three-legged donkey
ridden by me and carried by Allan. Wagner could have scripted that
one! Artsie stuff is just in the moment for me.
On 7 Apr, 11:10, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes that is the one Gabby,, I only have his piano works,, and I like his
> minimalist approach. I am not an authority by any means. I have
> preferences one of them is not being assaulted with excessive sound..and I
> like being able to hear the individual instruments.. I have no classical
> training what ever with the exception of two pieces of Grieg.. and of
> course the flight of the bumble bee..
>
> I walked out on a live jimmy Hendricks concert.. just loud and garbage,,
> so my opinion is my own totally based on whether I like it or not. How
> can you fall asleep listing to satie piano works they are so delicate..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:56 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you mean Erik Satie? Haha, yeah, that surely helps with sleeping
> > problems. French existentialism tangents this nicely.
> >>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
had a bet thinking 'omen'. It ran as well as a three-legged donkey
ridden by me and carried by Allan. Wagner could have scripted that
one! Artsie stuff is just in the moment for me.
On 7 Apr, 11:10, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes that is the one Gabby,, I only have his piano works,, and I like his
> minimalist approach. I am not an authority by any means. I have
> preferences one of them is not being assaulted with excessive sound..and I
> like being able to hear the individual instruments.. I have no classical
> training what ever with the exception of two pieces of Grieg.. and of
> course the flight of the bumble bee..
>
> I walked out on a live jimmy Hendricks concert.. just loud and garbage,,
> so my opinion is my own totally based on whether I like it or not. How
> can you fall asleep listing to satie piano works they are so delicate..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:56 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you mean Erik Satie? Haha, yeah, that surely helps with sleeping
> > problems. French existentialism tangents this nicely.
> > Am 06.04.2013 20:18 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Now I like Sartre have about 6 CD's all piano works,,
> >> an fascinated with the one that is basically single notes.. lately I have
> >> been more interested in pieces staring single insterments am trying to
> >> understand their sounds..
>
>
> > Now I like Sartre have about 6 CD's all piano works,,
> >> an fascinated with the one that is basically single notes.. lately I have
> >> been more interested in pieces staring single insterments am trying to
> >> understand their sounds..
>
>
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
> >> --
>
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> >> email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
> >> --
>
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> >> email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
>
> > --
>
> > ---
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>
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archytas
Apr 7, 2013, 4:05:44 PM4/7/13
to "Minds Eye"
Most art, music and literature (including sport) is merely how those
who can't do science or live examined lives make the trivial
important.
It seems strange to me we can tell what notes fit and yet can't do
logic to save our lives.
> >>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
who can't do science or live examined lives make the trivial
important.
It seems strange to me we can tell what notes fit and yet can't do
logic to save our lives.
On 7 Apr, 11:10, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes that is the one Gabby,, I only have his piano works,, and I like his
> minimalist approach. I am not an authority by any means. I have
> preferences one of them is not being assaulted with excessive sound..and I
> like being able to hear the individual instruments.. I have no classical
> training what ever with the exception of two pieces of Grieg.. and of
> course the flight of the bumble bee..
>
> I walked out on a live jimmy Hendricks concert.. just loud and garbage,,
> so my opinion is my own totally based on whether I like it or not. How
> can you fall asleep listing to satie piano works they are so delicate..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:56 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you mean Erik Satie? Haha, yeah, that surely helps with sleeping
> > problems. French existentialism tangents this nicely.
> minimalist approach. I am not an authority by any means. I have
> preferences one of them is not being assaulted with excessive sound..and I
> like being able to hear the individual instruments.. I have no classical
> training what ever with the exception of two pieces of Grieg.. and of
> course the flight of the bumble bee..
>
> I walked out on a live jimmy Hendricks concert.. just loud and garbage,,
> so my opinion is my own totally based on whether I like it or not. How
> can you fall asleep listing to satie piano works they are so delicate..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:56 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you mean Erik Satie? Haha, yeah, that surely helps with sleeping
> > problems. French existentialism tangents this nicely.
> > Am 06.04.2013 20:18 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Now I like Sartre have about 6 CD's all piano works,,
> >> an fascinated with the one that is basically single notes.. lately I have
> >> been more interested in pieces staring single insterments am trying to
> >> understand their sounds..
>
>
> > Now I like Sartre have about 6 CD's all piano works,,
> >> an fascinated with the one that is basically single notes.. lately I have
> >> been more interested in pieces staring single insterments am trying to
> >> understand their sounds..
>
>
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
> >> --
>
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> >> email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> --
> >> (
> >> )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> Of course I talk to myself,
> >> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
> >> --
>
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> >> email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
>
> > --
>
> > ---
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>
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Allan H
Apr 8, 2013, 1:35:00 AM4/8/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
ROGLMAO -- now I need to figure out how to get up
I could never win at the ponies either.. Molly
Apr 8, 2013, 7:35:32 AM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
Sometimes, the best fit is unreasonable, and only seems reasonable
later, when conditions change, or culture changes, or we change.
Logic isn't everything. The greatest discoveries often require a leap
into a form of logic not yet clear.
later, when conditions change, or culture changes, or we change.
Logic isn't everything. The greatest discoveries often require a leap
into a form of logic not yet clear.
gabbydott
Apr 8, 2013, 12:55:34 PM4/8/13
to minds-eye
Hey Mol, how are you? Good to see you.
Now, what you are saying is right from a tribal perspective. It would take a leap into the here and now of probabilities and how they relate to us to get a feel for fuzzy logic. Let's say many, many, many more Americans die only due to the effects of the pills the doctor has prescribed them than Americans dying due to having consumed illegal drugs such as heroin or cocain. Do you think that would make people choose to go to a doctor who prescribes pills more carefully? No, we are reasonably hoping (hop, hop) death will not hit us, at least not here and now.
rigs
Apr 8, 2013, 4:51:12 PM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
I agree. But later on the individual considers his/her intellect
rather than emotions made the invention, decision, etc. Esp men. :-)
> > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
rather than emotions made the invention, decision, etc. Esp men. :-)
rigs
Apr 8, 2013, 4:58:25 PM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
Where did you get this info? Factor in obesity, heart problems, etc.
Also epidemics, etc. Some od on rx and others on street drugs-alcohol
or a combo. But as to rx you will have to come up with statistics re
doctors and abuse by patients. Saw dr. last week. My daughter thinks I
must have inherited super-genes. Maybe!
On Apr 8, 11:55 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Mol, how are you? Good to see you.
> Now, what you are saying is right from a tribal perspective. It would take
> a leap into the here and now of probabilities and how they relate to us to
> get a feel for fuzzy logic. Let's say many, many, many more Americans die
> only due to the effects of the pills the doctor has prescribed them than
> Americans dying due to having consumed illegal drugs such as heroin or
> cocain. Do you think that would make people choose to go to a doctor who
> prescribes pills more carefully? No, we are reasonably hoping (hop, hop)
> death will not hit us, at least not here and now.
>
> 2013/4/8 Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide quoted text -
Also epidemics, etc. Some od on rx and others on street drugs-alcohol
or a combo. But as to rx you will have to come up with statistics re
doctors and abuse by patients. Saw dr. last week. My daughter thinks I
must have inherited super-genes. Maybe!
On Apr 8, 11:55 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Mol, how are you? Good to see you.
> Now, what you are saying is right from a tribal perspective. It would take
> a leap into the here and now of probabilities and how they relate to us to
> get a feel for fuzzy logic. Let's say many, many, many more Americans die
> only due to the effects of the pills the doctor has prescribed them than
> Americans dying due to having consumed illegal drugs such as heroin or
> cocain. Do you think that would make people choose to go to a doctor who
> prescribes pills more carefully? No, we are reasonably hoping (hop, hop)
> death will not hit us, at least not here and now.
>
Molly
Apr 8, 2013, 6:38:00 PM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
Esp men. Ya.
Molly
Apr 8, 2013, 6:38:21 PM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
Hi Gabs. Good to see you too.
On Apr 8, 12:55 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Mol, how are you? Good to see you.
> Now, what you are saying is right from a tribal perspective. It would take
> a leap into the here and now of probabilities and how they relate to us to
> get a feel for fuzzy logic. Let's say many, many, many more Americans die
> only due to the effects of the pills the doctor has prescribed them than
> Americans dying due to having consumed illegal drugs such as heroin or
> cocain. Do you think that would make people choose to go to a doctor who
> prescribes pills more carefully? No, we are reasonably hoping (hop, hop)
> death will not hit us, at least not here and now.
>
> 2013/4/8 Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
On Apr 8, 12:55 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Mol, how are you? Good to see you.
> Now, what you are saying is right from a tribal perspective. It would take
> a leap into the here and now of probabilities and how they relate to us to
> get a feel for fuzzy logic. Let's say many, many, many more Americans die
> only due to the effects of the pills the doctor has prescribed them than
> Americans dying due to having consumed illegal drugs such as heroin or
> cocain. Do you think that would make people choose to go to a doctor who
> prescribes pills more carefully? No, we are reasonably hoping (hop, hop)
> death will not hit us, at least not here and now.
>
Molly
Apr 8, 2013, 6:39:52 PM4/8/13
to "Minds Eye"
Super genes sound swell. Epigenetics is the study that changed the
genetic paradigm. You have a great outlook, Rigs. That is probably
the greatest contribution to vitality and health.
> > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hide quoted text -
genetic paradigm. You have a great outlook, Rigs. That is probably
the greatest contribution to vitality and health.
Allan H
Apr 9, 2013, 12:44:45 AM4/9/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
wow because I don't understand or like Wagner it has turned into a pick on men day..
I know when when women get together for a good old fashion gossip session it is now called networking .. guess I am not to bright as I am still trying to figure out how in 1934 I came up with a massive amount (several tons) of Gold the belonged to the US Treasury that I robbed from a shipment in 2014. Or at least they say I did it because my fingerprints were all over the place.. The problem is it was an air shipment,, in flight and I was at home sleeping with my wife..
Oh well I must ;earn to accept what I can change or understand woman and dreams are two of them..
gabbydott
Apr 9, 2013, 6:40:15 PM4/9/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
rigs
Apr 9, 2013, 7:18:48 PM4/9/13
to "Minds Eye"
"The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the
sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to
whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand
rapt in awe, is as good as dead.To know that what is impenetrable to
us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the
most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can compehend only in
their most primitive forms- this knowledge, this feeling, is at the
center of true religiousness." Albert Einstein
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to
whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand
rapt in awe, is as good as dead.To know that what is impenetrable to
us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the
most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can compehend only in
their most primitive forms- this knowledge, this feeling, is at the
center of true religiousness." Albert Einstein
rigs
Apr 9, 2013, 7:36:05 PM4/9/13
to "Minds Eye"
The patient has to take an active role, I think, and investigate the
rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
On Apr 9, 5:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
On Apr 9, 5:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
gabbydott
Apr 10, 2013, 8:02:00 AM4/10/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
Yes, that's why I propose the hopefully not yet patient but child/adolescent is to also learn the healthstory of their family in order to not leave existentially important spaces empty.
And no, you shouldn't have told me your current doctor is from India! I cannot help but thinking now that you go there because you both agree cooking fresh food all day long, doing the house-work and caring for the family is the best medicine!
I agree, we need new definitions.
I agree, we need new definitions.
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
archytas
Apr 13, 2013, 4:23:43 PM4/13/13
to "Minds Eye"
Logic is not without its mystical component rigs - it's just taught by
bores. You can fly to the moon on a beetle on account of your dog
having a driving licence - no dog simply enhances the logical
possibility, the logic undisturbed when dog comes home with smashed up
car. Urges to be logical are usually urges to be consistent with the
views of the urger.
One wonders on what a modern Wagner might write. I'm prone to like HL
Mencken's notion of German Opera with most characters being buried
under avalanches of acorns. Wagner might have written on a future
without humans in it. The Ring scared me as a boy as I could see
nothing human in it - one grows up and now I see various economists
vying with each other in the hopeless plight of a set of shared
assumption none of them can see - the first being the requirement to
shout everything in song.
On Apr 10, 1:02 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's why I propose the hopefully not yet patient but
> child/adolescent is to also learn the healthstory of their family in order
> to not leave existentially important spaces empty.
>
> And no, you shouldn't have told me your current doctor is from India! I
> cannot help but thinking now that you go there because you both agree
> cooking fresh food all day long, doing the house-work and caring for the
> family is the best medicine!
>
> I agree, we need new definitions.
>
> Am Mittwoch, 10. April 2013 schrieb rigs :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The patient has to take an active role, I think, and investigate the
> > rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
> > those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
> > doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
> > model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
> > have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
> > my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
> > large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
>
> > email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:;>.
bores. You can fly to the moon on a beetle on account of your dog
having a driving licence - no dog simply enhances the logical
possibility, the logic undisturbed when dog comes home with smashed up
car. Urges to be logical are usually urges to be consistent with the
views of the urger.
One wonders on what a modern Wagner might write. I'm prone to like HL
Mencken's notion of German Opera with most characters being buried
under avalanches of acorns. Wagner might have written on a future
without humans in it. The Ring scared me as a boy as I could see
nothing human in it - one grows up and now I see various economists
vying with each other in the hopeless plight of a set of shared
assumption none of them can see - the first being the requirement to
shout everything in song.
On Apr 10, 1:02 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's why I propose the hopefully not yet patient but
> child/adolescent is to also learn the healthstory of their family in order
> to not leave existentially important spaces empty.
>
> And no, you shouldn't have told me your current doctor is from India! I
> cannot help but thinking now that you go there because you both agree
> cooking fresh food all day long, doing the house-work and caring for the
> family is the best medicine!
>
> I agree, we need new definitions.
>
> Am Mittwoch, 10. April 2013 schrieb rigs :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The patient has to take an active role, I think, and investigate the
> > rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
> > those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
> > doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
> > model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
> > have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
> > my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
> > large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
>
> > On Apr 9, 5:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> > > what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> > > some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> > > industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
> > > Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> > > what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> > > some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> > > industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
Allan H
Apr 14, 2013, 4:00:20 AM4/14/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
interesting ,, I know I didn't like it so I pulled the CD and put something else on.. but I am enjoying what is said ,, maybe I will be able to go back and listen to in with some insight..
I think your logic is perfect Neil
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rigs
Apr 14, 2013, 8:39:09 AM4/14/13
to "Minds Eye"
Putting the thought in the air- good genes, health, etc.- has summoned
the Furies. Punishment is an eye infection-both eyes, now- a swollen
neck gland- and last night a piece of a molar cracked off. Medicine is
iffy- little progress. Ice and snow storms. Neighbor took me to eye
clinic and he and wife will help. Wearing tinted glasses- Jackie O.
Must be a test for my Soul as Logic escapes me. Some of your spare
prayers might help. Will try to stay in touch.
On Apr 10, 7:02 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's why I propose the hopefully not yet patient but
> child/adolescent is to also learn the healthstory of their family in order
> to not leave existentially important spaces empty.
>
> And no, you shouldn't have told me your current doctor is from India! I
> cannot help but thinking now that you go there because you both agree
> cooking fresh food all day long, doing the house-work and caring for the
> family is the best medicine!
>
> I agree, we need new definitions.
>
> Am Mittwoch, 10. April 2013 schrieb rigs :
>
>
>
> > The patient has to take an active role, I think, and investigate the
> > rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
> > those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
> > doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
> > model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
> > have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
> > my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
> > large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
>
> > email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:;>.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide quoted text -
the Furies. Punishment is an eye infection-both eyes, now- a swollen
neck gland- and last night a piece of a molar cracked off. Medicine is
iffy- little progress. Ice and snow storms. Neighbor took me to eye
clinic and he and wife will help. Wearing tinted glasses- Jackie O.
Must be a test for my Soul as Logic escapes me. Some of your spare
prayers might help. Will try to stay in touch.
On Apr 10, 7:02 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's why I propose the hopefully not yet patient but
> child/adolescent is to also learn the healthstory of their family in order
> to not leave existentially important spaces empty.
>
> And no, you shouldn't have told me your current doctor is from India! I
> cannot help but thinking now that you go there because you both agree
> cooking fresh food all day long, doing the house-work and caring for the
> family is the best medicine!
>
> I agree, we need new definitions.
>
> Am Mittwoch, 10. April 2013 schrieb rigs :
>
>
>
> > The patient has to take an active role, I think, and investigate the
> > rx also. Plus the old familiarity with family doctors has declined-
> > those who knew the family history. So there are empty spaces.//My old
> > doctors quit the insurance plan and are setting up a new "business
> > model". (?) So many have moved to a different practice. Anyway, I now
> > have an female Indian (India) lady and a good first run-by- actually
> > my daughter selected the practice. I have halved her rx as I am not a
> > large person.//Probably new definitions are a good idea.
>
> > On Apr 9, 5:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> > > what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> > > some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> > > industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
> > > Right, it was all about what has been factored in in the new WHO book of
> > > what counts as a disease at what point etc. An American psychologist gave
> > > some examples and figures. They were not discussing though how big pharma
> > > industry and big politics are not unhappy about the development.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.- Hide quoted text -
Allan H
Apr 14, 2013, 9:35:58 AM4/14/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
that sounds horrible Gabby,, will keep you in my thoughts and keep us informed. hoping you have a swift recovery.
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Molly
Apr 14, 2013, 5:23:56 PM4/14/13
to "Minds Eye"
Does sound like mysterious ways at work, Rigs. Just when you think it
is safe to go into the water...
> > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hide quoted text -
is safe to go into the water...
archytas
Apr 14, 2013, 6:56:56 PM4/14/13
to "Minds Eye"
Rotten luck rigs, my fingers crossed for quick recovery.
> > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hidequoted text -
Gabby
Apr 15, 2013, 2:25:51 AM4/15/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I am really sorry to hear that, Rigs, and
archytas
Apr 16, 2013, 11:35:32 AM4/16/13
to "Minds Eye"
Dark Lady of any sonnet I might cherish
Politics fade in soft breeze of smile assumed unseen.
Thoughts dance in your shadow
Kitchen warm and tempting as an open soul.
A feast of music tonight
I never touch the food.
Leaves room to dream of my lady's kitchen
In overture's crescendo, dreams on rise.
It's a night at the ballet rigs. My gay companion will sense I'm
thinking of someone else, ask why we didn't book another seat and
sound our horn at your door. One can only wish the thought set free to
fly that we might distract until better times.
> > > > email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> <javascript:;>.
> > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hidequoted text -
Politics fade in soft breeze of smile assumed unseen.
Thoughts dance in your shadow
Kitchen warm and tempting as an open soul.
A feast of music tonight
I never touch the food.
Leaves room to dream of my lady's kitchen
In overture's crescendo, dreams on rise.
It's a night at the ballet rigs. My gay companion will sense I'm
thinking of someone else, ask why we didn't book another seat and
sound our horn at your door. One can only wish the thought set free to
fly that we might distract until better times.
> > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hidequoted text -
rigs
Apr 16, 2013, 10:55:03 PM4/16/13
to "Minds Eye"
Sigh...The minute I started taking medicine all hell broke loose.
Might as well have flushed $200. The doctors are all drug pushers and
I am quite furiously discouraged. It will be some time before eyes are
better but I won't go blind- that's a break!!! Had to quit all meds
except drops and a cool cloth. The good news is that it was a gold
inlay rather than a piece of tooth that fell out as I ate a fat date
(the fruit) and the tooth doesn't hurt so that can wait. But I am
miserable and thank you all for good wishes and lovely thoughts. Not
sure the Indian doctor will see me again. :-) I drove to the post
office today though I shouldn't have and am cooking- eating-sleeping-
dreaming- sick and sad with radio news. Anyway- I've missed you.
> > > > > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.-Hidequotedtext -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Might as well have flushed $200. The doctors are all drug pushers and
I am quite furiously discouraged. It will be some time before eyes are
better but I won't go blind- that's a break!!! Had to quit all meds
except drops and a cool cloth. The good news is that it was a gold
inlay rather than a piece of tooth that fell out as I ate a fat date
(the fruit) and the tooth doesn't hurt so that can wait. But I am
miserable and thank you all for good wishes and lovely thoughts. Not
sure the Indian doctor will see me again. :-) I drove to the post
office today though I shouldn't have and am cooking- eating-sleeping-
dreaming- sick and sad with radio news. Anyway- I've missed you.
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
gabbydott
Apr 17, 2013, 3:14:40 AM4/17/13
to minds-eye
You are driving to the post office but not to the dentist? Rigs! How long do you intend to live on porridge? Until you got the flushed $200 back? That's what we disrespectfully call "Milchmädchenrechnung"(http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/1969/42) (naive fallacy)!
Allan H
Apr 17, 2013, 3:54:50 AM4/17/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I hope things continue to get better.
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archytas
Apr 17, 2013, 6:18:02 PM4/17/13
to "Minds Eye"
The ballet was disappointing - I really only like the music. Steve is
into the aesthetic female form - though I note he holds my hand
tearfully when the male lead is prancing about. Food, wine and
entertainment at he gay restaurant were excellent. The next venue is
my choice, probably the rugby league cup final. My daughter will
probably come with us to that, sharing his interest in athletic men,
Good to hear you sounding better. Heed Gabby's advice - after all now
we know the Germans invented porridge!
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
into the aesthetic female form - though I note he holds my hand
tearfully when the male lead is prancing about. Food, wine and
entertainment at he gay restaurant were excellent. The next venue is
my choice, probably the rugby league cup final. My daughter will
probably come with us to that, sharing his interest in athletic men,
Good to hear you sounding better. Heed Gabby's advice - after all now
we know the Germans invented porridge!
rigs
Apr 18, 2013, 11:52:57 AM4/18/13
to "Minds Eye"
The post office is a ten minute bit while the dentist would be an
hour. Not ready for hours yet. :-) I eat very well- have thought of
writing a blog or book about single or couple cuisine for seniors as
many give up. For instance, last night I fixed broiled steak, baked
potato, steamed asparagus, sliced tomatoes and a walnut brownie later.
The freezer is stocked with a couple of soups, chili, prepped pastas,
etc. so I am in good shape. I slowly learned how to manage this after
family cooking so I wouldn't get bored or drink dinner instead.
On Apr 17, 2:14 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are driving to the post office but not to the dentist? Rigs! How long
> do you intend to live on porridge? Until you got the flushed $200 back?
> That's what we disrespectfully call "Milchmädchenrechnung"(http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/1969/42) (naive fallacy)!
>
> 2013/4/17 rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
hour. Not ready for hours yet. :-) I eat very well- have thought of
writing a blog or book about single or couple cuisine for seniors as
many give up. For instance, last night I fixed broiled steak, baked
potato, steamed asparagus, sliced tomatoes and a walnut brownie later.
The freezer is stocked with a couple of soups, chili, prepped pastas,
etc. so I am in good shape. I slowly learned how to manage this after
family cooking so I wouldn't get bored or drink dinner instead.
On Apr 17, 2:14 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are driving to the post office but not to the dentist? Rigs! How long
> do you intend to live on porridge? Until you got the flushed $200 back?
> That's what we disrespectfully call "Milchmädchenrechnung"(http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/1969/42) (naive fallacy)!
>
rigs
Apr 18, 2013, 11:56:37 AM4/18/13
to "Minds Eye"
Reminds me of the line from "Knocked Up" about women really being more
beautiful than men. It's true from an aesthetic point of view but is
overlooked- overwhelmed, etc.
beautiful than men. It's true from an aesthetic point of view but is
overlooked- overwhelmed, etc.
Allan H
Apr 18, 2013, 12:50:46 PM4/18/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
good to see you feeling better Rigsy
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
gabbydott
Apr 18, 2013, 1:44:48 PM4/18/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I understood your inlay fell out. It would be important to see a dentist and have it fixed. There is usually more to it than glueing it back in. Maybe the tooth can still be saved if you don't wait until it pains you. That's what I meant.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
rigs
Apr 18, 2013, 8:13:16 PM4/18/13
to "Minds Eye"
Thank you Allen but the eye infections look like a long slog. Dr.
wants to see me again on Monday- he has tried his best and been very
good about keeping track. It's severe conjunctivitis with a couple
other itises. Green eyes surrounded by red Jello! Yikes!!! I finally
have bags under my eyes also. It is a test... :-)
wants to see me again on Monday- he has tried his best and been very
good about keeping track. It's severe conjunctivitis with a couple
other itises. Green eyes surrounded by red Jello! Yikes!!! I finally
have bags under my eyes also. It is a test... :-)
rigs
Apr 18, 2013, 8:20:38 PM4/18/13
to "Minds Eye"
You would not believe the mess insurance has made with doctors and
dentists. Doctors are attaching to hospitals with their own pharmacies
rather than private practice, for instance. My dentist tale would bore
you but former practice is on the list. I think a short delay will be
okay and we are in the midst of a spring blizzard. Thanks for the
thoughtful advice- I do appreciate it. I think my teeth are in pretty
good shape overall- no bridges or false teeth. A dentist said I would
keep them till I died but I forgot to ask how long that would be! :-)
On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understood your inlay fell out. It would be important to see a dentist
> and have it fixed. There is usually more to it than glueing it back in.
> Maybe the tooth can still be saved if you don't wait until it pains you.
> That's what I meant.
dentists. Doctors are attaching to hospitals with their own pharmacies
rather than private practice, for instance. My dentist tale would bore
you but former practice is on the list. I think a short delay will be
okay and we are in the midst of a spring blizzard. Thanks for the
thoughtful advice- I do appreciate it. I think my teeth are in pretty
good shape overall- no bridges or false teeth. A dentist said I would
keep them till I died but I forgot to ask how long that would be! :-)
On Apr 18, 12:44 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understood your inlay fell out. It would be important to see a dentist
> and have it fixed. There is usually more to it than glueing it back in.
> Maybe the tooth can still be saved if you don't wait until it pains you.
> That's what I meant.
rigs
Apr 18, 2013, 9:02:11 PM4/18/13
to "Minds Eye"
Ballet slippers for en pointe remind me of Chinese foot binding for
women. Is it subjugation of the female?
women. Is it subjugation of the female?
archytas
Apr 19, 2013, 5:46:02 PM4/19/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I have never liked ballet and always sit near the orchestra pit for the music. Steve and I met when I was very much in love with a ballerina and lived with us for a few months. He loves the choreography and movement. I tend to see the slippers as you say rigs and dislike the obvious (male) control and body fascism. I'd no doubt attend basketball if Steve wanted to go.
rigs
Apr 20, 2013, 9:05:36 AM4/20/13
to "Minds Eye"
Of course you loved a ballerina! Not at all surprised. Ballet grew out
of court rituals. I find it it stiff and artificial but yes, the
scores can be fabulous- like Firebird. Liked Tallchief in films I have
seen. Loved the Red Shoes (?) as a cautionary tale. I would add that
women are quite able to subjugate themselves even while seeming
independent.
of court rituals. I find it it stiff and artificial but yes, the
scores can be fabulous- like Firebird. Liked Tallchief in films I have
seen. Loved the Red Shoes (?) as a cautionary tale. I would add that
women are quite able to subjugate themselves even while seeming
independent.
archytas
Apr 20, 2013, 8:16:29 PM4/20/13
to "Minds Eye"
Ballet was associated with prostitution in Georgian days. Men do the
sub-thingy too - at least in pecking order terms. I was rarely
comfortable not being the organiser or captain in team games and have
found much the same in work situations. I like to think this is
because I bring a kind of 'beguine' democracy when I do the leadership
bit and very rarely stoop to bossing people about - but it's
emotionally complex and an area subject to self-delusion! With
enough decent people about I'm inclined to the view leadership is
about not letting a mad person take over and otherwise being able to
ignore it because most of the time its obvious what to do.
If anything, ballet reminds me of army drill squares - I was so bad at
that I had a permanent ticket from the drill sergeant to be away
playing various sports. Most people love it -
but I just can't take being told what foot to start off on and making
the toes of boots shine. I have no problem taking my turn with scut
work (chores etc.) - and know the value of keeping one's place in the
line - but I guess I'm in out of step by default.
We share the music - and I love watching the orchestra tune up or hear
choirs do their equivalents - and I admire the organisation of the
playing - which sort of brings the question of why I feel queasy with
the choreography thing. I'm as queasy with today's over-organised
sport. I expect you'd have turned my head other than by being a
pretty girl in the chorus too - I tend to be attracted by difference.
Back to Wagner - who really cares - I can rarely associate the music
with the other action. The recent New York production is on TV here
soon - sadly Sky Arts. I only take their sports and will also miss
Oliver Stones 'History of America' - though they'll get to C4 and BBC
4 soon enough. I wonder what Wagner might have done with a concept of
'relativity flight' - leaving a place that will disappear in terms of
what and where it was in a speeding bubble aimed at somewhere not
where it is developing now to emerge in a future that has developed
billions of years and in which we have aged only 28 - a hopeless
fantasy of faith if ever there was one!
> women are quite able to subjugate themselves even while seeming
> independent.
>
> On Apr 19, 4:46 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>s
> ...
>
> read more »
sub-thingy too - at least in pecking order terms. I was rarely
comfortable not being the organiser or captain in team games and have
found much the same in work situations. I like to think this is
because I bring a kind of 'beguine' democracy when I do the leadership
bit and very rarely stoop to bossing people about - but it's
emotionally complex and an area subject to self-delusion! With
enough decent people about I'm inclined to the view leadership is
about not letting a mad person take over and otherwise being able to
ignore it because most of the time its obvious what to do.
If anything, ballet reminds me of army drill squares - I was so bad at
that I had a permanent ticket from the drill sergeant to be away
playing various sports. Most people love it -
but I just can't take being told what foot to start off on and making
the toes of boots shine. I have no problem taking my turn with scut
work (chores etc.) - and know the value of keeping one's place in the
line - but I guess I'm in out of step by default.
We share the music - and I love watching the orchestra tune up or hear
choirs do their equivalents - and I admire the organisation of the
playing - which sort of brings the question of why I feel queasy with
the choreography thing. I'm as queasy with today's over-organised
sport. I expect you'd have turned my head other than by being a
pretty girl in the chorus too - I tend to be attracted by difference.
Back to Wagner - who really cares - I can rarely associate the music
with the other action. The recent New York production is on TV here
soon - sadly Sky Arts. I only take their sports and will also miss
Oliver Stones 'History of America' - though they'll get to C4 and BBC
4 soon enough. I wonder what Wagner might have done with a concept of
'relativity flight' - leaving a place that will disappear in terms of
what and where it was in a speeding bubble aimed at somewhere not
where it is developing now to emerge in a future that has developed
billions of years and in which we have aged only 28 - a hopeless
fantasy of faith if ever there was one!
> women are quite able to subjugate themselves even while seeming
> independent.
>
> On Apr 19, 4:46 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> read more »
Allan H
Apr 21, 2013, 4:04:50 AM4/21/13
to mind...@googlegroups.com
I watched that economic piece.. learned a lot or rather it organized what intuitively I knew was wrong.. the real question becomes when,, and was reading your mad men in charge,, and I am always watching the history of England programs thanks to BBC .. and there is very interesting though as to music and organization.. It would be interesting to see some of the geniuses of the past preforming in today's world.
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archytas
Apr 21, 2013, 7:54:42 PM4/21/13
to "Minds Eye"
In science we work thinking we might be barking up wrong trees -
anything else is dangerous potential misinterpretation. Outside
science it seems assumed we have replaced the seven demons of religion
with one. If we can hold true in doubt we don't dismiss the eternal
or laws of history or god and gods but stick with doubt ahead of
dogmatic imposition. This is never enough as we are privileging the
examined life. We need the future memory to remind us how the present
might be viewed from future, lest we seize up the present in a dogma
of certain knowing. Even this dynamic is not doubt but a legitimation
of knowledge, a parology of process philosophy. If we ever get this
far we remain biological beings, collectives formed in historic
assimilation (co-evolution) and socially collective and competitive.
This would only be the overture. One act might organise what we know
of religious fables to new purpose rather than the agnostic cry
against what we have sensed wrong in fundamentalism ... we lack such
modern art and music.
On Apr 21, 9:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I watched that economic piece.. learned a lot or rather it organized what
> intuitively I knew was wrong.. the real question becomes when,, and was
> reading your mad men in charge,, and I am always watching the history of
> England programs thanks to BBC .. and there is very interesting though
> in a dogmaas to music and organization.. It would be interesting to see some of the
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
anything else is dangerous potential misinterpretation. Outside
science it seems assumed we have replaced the seven demons of religion
with one. If we can hold true in doubt we don't dismiss the eternal
or laws of history or god and gods but stick with doubt ahead of
dogmatic imposition. This is never enough as we are privileging the
examined life. We need the future memory to remind us how the present
might be viewed from future, lest we seize up the present in a dogma
of certain knowing. Even this dynamic is not doubt but a legitimation
of knowledge, a parology of process philosophy. If we ever get this
far we remain biological beings, collectives formed in historic
assimilation (co-evolution) and socially collective and competitive.
This would only be the overture. One act might organise what we know
of religious fables to new purpose rather than the agnostic cry
against what we have sensed wrong in fundamentalism ... we lack such
modern art and music.
On Apr 21, 9:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I watched that economic piece.. learned a lot or rather it organized what
> intuitively I knew was wrong.. the real question becomes when,, and was
> reading your mad men in charge,, and I am always watching the history of
> England programs thanks to BBC .. and there is very interesting though
rigs
Apr 22, 2013, 9:10:34 AM4/22/13
to "Minds Eye"
Hard as it is, art should be separated from the character and behavior
of the artist but this is not always easy. Heard the third act of
"Siegfried" on the radio Saturday and was swept along helplessly.
Wagner invades the entire body/soul- a conquest. The plot- love/death-
disappears--that is the danger.//Dance may have started with the
stealth of the hunt> religious rituals> Greek drama, of course plus
there are matings and harems to consider. A chorus line of concubines?
On Apr 3, 3:17 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Respecting boundaries was not Wagner’s thing. Transgression he took in
> his stride – stealing other men’s wives when he needed them, spending
> other people’s money without worrying too much about paying it back –
> while artistically his ambitions knew no bounds. There is something
> awe-inspiring about his productivity under hostile conditions, the
> way, though living on the breadline, he turned out masterpieces when
> there was no reasonable prospect of any of them being performed:
> gigantic works, pushing singers and musicians to the limits of their
> technique, and taking music itself to the edges of its known universe.
> Theft; the breaking of vows, promises and contracts; seduction,
> adultery, incest, disobedience, defiance of the gods, daring to ask
> the one forbidden question, the renunciation of love for power,
> genital self-mutilation as the price of magic: Wagner’s work is
> everywhere preoccupied with boundaries set and overstepped, limits
> reached and exceeded. ‘Wagnerian’ has passed into our language as a
> byword for the exorbitant, the over-scaled and the interminable.
>
> Wagner has kept me awake at night. Sleepless, I turn my thoughts to
> Tristan und Isolde, Wagner’s most extreme work and the plus ultra of
> love stories, and I notice a kinship between aspects of Tristan and
> Isolde’s passion and the experience of a certain kind of insomnia. The
> second act of Tristan und Isolde is Romanticism’s greatest hymn to the
> night, not for the elfin charm and ethereal chiaroscuro of moonbeams
> and starlight, the territory of Chopin and Debussy, but night as a
> close bosom-friend of oblivion, a simulacrum of eternity and a place
> to play dead. Insomnia is a refusal to cross the boundary between
> waking and sleeping, a bid to outwit Terminus by hiding away in
> ‘soundless dark’, a zone beyond time. As garlic is to vampires, so
> clocks are to insomniacs, not because they tell of how much sleep has
> been missed, but because they bring the next day nearer. As Philip
> Larkin, poet of limits, knew so well, sleep has the one big
> disadvantage that we wake up from it: ‘In time the curtain edges will
> grow light,’ he wrote in ‘Aubade’, bringing ‘Unresting death, a whole
> day nearer now’. For Tristan and Isolde, too, night must not give way
> to day, not for the trivial reason that day will end their love-
> making, but because dawn brings death one day nearer. They must stay
> awake, for to sleep is to allow the night to pass, to awake from the
> night is to live and to live is to die. And when, inevitably, day
> dawns, they have only one recourse. To Tristan and Isolde, in their
> delirium, it seems that by dying they will preserve their love for
> ever: by dying, they will defy death.
>
> 'Utter rot' the scientist in me says, knowing science is a product of
> madness that can be demonstrated. Wagner is bad for us. And I think
> to science again - the science that dares to tell us the table is
> mostly nothing, with nothing curved space, unseen forces, the
> individual not Jack or Jill of thought in Idol boundaries.
of the artist but this is not always easy. Heard the third act of
"Siegfried" on the radio Saturday and was swept along helplessly.
Wagner invades the entire body/soul- a conquest. The plot- love/death-
disappears--that is the danger.//Dance may have started with the
stealth of the hunt> religious rituals> Greek drama, of course plus
there are matings and harems to consider. A chorus line of concubines?
On Apr 3, 3:17 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Respecting boundaries was not Wagner’s thing. Transgression he took in
> his stride – stealing other men’s wives when he needed them, spending
> other people’s money without worrying too much about paying it back –
> while artistically his ambitions knew no bounds. There is something
> awe-inspiring about his productivity under hostile conditions, the
> way, though living on the breadline, he turned out masterpieces when
> there was no reasonable prospect of any of them being performed:
> gigantic works, pushing singers and musicians to the limits of their
> technique, and taking music itself to the edges of its known universe.
> Theft; the breaking of vows, promises and contracts; seduction,
> adultery, incest, disobedience, defiance of the gods, daring to ask
> the one forbidden question, the renunciation of love for power,
> genital self-mutilation as the price of magic: Wagner’s work is
> everywhere preoccupied with boundaries set and overstepped, limits
> reached and exceeded. ‘Wagnerian’ has passed into our language as a
> byword for the exorbitant, the over-scaled and the interminable.
>
> Wagner has kept me awake at night. Sleepless, I turn my thoughts to
> Tristan und Isolde, Wagner’s most extreme work and the plus ultra of
> love stories, and I notice a kinship between aspects of Tristan and
> Isolde’s passion and the experience of a certain kind of insomnia. The
> second act of Tristan und Isolde is Romanticism’s greatest hymn to the
> night, not for the elfin charm and ethereal chiaroscuro of moonbeams
> and starlight, the territory of Chopin and Debussy, but night as a
> close bosom-friend of oblivion, a simulacrum of eternity and a place
> to play dead. Insomnia is a refusal to cross the boundary between
> waking and sleeping, a bid to outwit Terminus by hiding away in
> ‘soundless dark’, a zone beyond time. As garlic is to vampires, so
> clocks are to insomniacs, not because they tell of how much sleep has
> been missed, but because they bring the next day nearer. As Philip
> Larkin, poet of limits, knew so well, sleep has the one big
> disadvantage that we wake up from it: ‘In time the curtain edges will
> grow light,’ he wrote in ‘Aubade’, bringing ‘Unresting death, a whole
> day nearer now’. For Tristan and Isolde, too, night must not give way
> to day, not for the trivial reason that day will end their love-
> making, but because dawn brings death one day nearer. They must stay
> awake, for to sleep is to allow the night to pass, to awake from the
> night is to live and to live is to die. And when, inevitably, day
> dawns, they have only one recourse. To Tristan and Isolde, in their
> delirium, it seems that by dying they will preserve their love for
> ever: by dying, they will defy death.
>
> 'Utter rot' the scientist in me says, knowing science is a product of
> madness that can be demonstrated. Wagner is bad for us. And I think
> to science again - the science that dares to tell us the table is
> mostly nothing, with nothing curved space, unseen forces, the
> individual not Jack or Jill of thought in Idol boundaries.
archytas
Apr 25, 2013, 12:08:32 PM4/25/13
to "Minds Eye"
Been a while since I was swept along like that rigs. I often hope
universal mind could be like that, even in mad scientist guise that we
might be able to build something to attract it. I feel very separated
from the world at the moment - only in the sense that television news
(media generally) hits me as an irrelevant blank. Food used to be a
bit like that when I could do intellectual work. I wasn't built to
dance on anything except mud - so I'm lucky rugby was a winter sport
when I played and had somewhere to make my rituals public.
universal mind could be like that, even in mad scientist guise that we
might be able to build something to attract it. I feel very separated
from the world at the moment - only in the sense that television news
(media generally) hits me as an irrelevant blank. Food used to be a
bit like that when I could do intellectual work. I wasn't built to
dance on anything except mud - so I'm lucky rugby was a winter sport
when I played and had somewhere to make my rituals public.
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