Fwd: penetrating oils

[Mrspeed700]

-----Original Message-----
From: ALEX W KOLANDER <mpale...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Doug Alfke <cw4...@yahoo.com>; Jeff Babe <jbab...@hotmail.com>; Timmy Ball <tl...@aol.com>; Rick Blaha <rbl...@pak-rite.com>; jeremy cannon <jd_c...@yahoo.com>; Todd Carrao <toddc...@yahoo.com>; Randy Connell <conn...@charter.net>; Donald DABEL <fies...@gmail.com>; Dino <dacr...@gmail.com>; Fred Falk <fal...@aol.com>; Bill Gorman <str...@tds.net>; Terry Hall <thal...@hotmail.com>; hosergump <hose...@yahoo.com>; Jim <Jimfal...@aol.com>; Jon <Krisjo...@aol.com>; Andreas Kolander <akola...@yahoo.com>; walter Krainer <walter...@yahoo.com>; Deanna L. Luedtke <cw2d...@yahoo.com>; Andy Mallon <andy....@we-energies.com>; ed martin <smar...@wi.rr.com>; Ted Matson <Tja...@aol.com>; Mike Mejchar <mej...@charter.net>; Mike Messmer <mmes...@wi.rr.com>; Jim Miller <ltcja...@sbcglobal.net>; bryan Much <bryan...@charter.net>; Brian Mueller <ccs...@gmail.com>; MVrban <MVr...@aol.com>; Jim NAPA <jdsp...@yahoo.com>; Karl Norris <kdno...@mech-ind.com>; Craig Pagelsdorf <moone...@hotmail.com>; gerald parchem <parc...@yahoo.com>; Tim Pfrang <tpf...@wi.rr.com>; Steve Poremba <steve....@gmail.com>; Jim Ransom <jimb...@wi.rr.com>; Rich <mrspe...@aol.com>; Roger Rodeghier <rrode...@wi.rr.com>; Tom Skudlarczyk <ts...@msn.com>; Mark Spitz <marks...@yahoo.com>; Chris Stoltmann <cstol...@wi.rr.com>; SusanS <porsc...@wi.rr.com>; RALEIGH SWAN <swangr...@hotmail.com>; John T Walls <jtw...@yahoo.com>; Rusty Wolf <hw...@wi.rr.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 8:15 pm
Subject: Fw: penetrating oils

--- On Sun, 9/30/12, Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> wrote: From: Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> Subject: penetrating oils To: Date: Sunday, September 30, 2012, 11:17 PM the mechanic in you may enjoy this.                                                                        Penetrating Oils   Machinist’s Workshop Mag™ recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a “scientifically rusted” environment. *Penetrating oil .......... Average load* None ........................... 516 pounds WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds ATF*-Acetone mix...............53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the “home brew” was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that “Liquid Wrench” is almost as good as “Kroil” for about 20% of the price. Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is the best and you can also use ATF- lacquer thinner 50 - 50 mix.   *ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid

[Ed Hagopian]

That sounds equally awesome and insanely nasty. How does one go about figuring out those two A: Mix without fume fun for the home family, and B: work as a penetrating oil?

[ironmonger]

A follow up to this article noted that the acetone and the oil were not co-miscible. The author had substituted acetone for a more nasty solvent with out actually trying it. Try mixing the ATF with mineral spirits instead. Those two work just as well.

Paul
WB9HCO
No trees were killed sending this message, but a tremendous number of electrons were terribly inconvienced...

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[Jack'D]

Thanks for posting this, I'm always interested in finding out ways to accomplish things using substances other than black-box "wonder cures".  I did a bit more research and found the following:

This discussion on a machinist's forum has a response from the author:
"The original homemade penetrating oil mixture called for using trichloroethelyne as the solvent. I cannot recommend trichlor for home shop use and definitely not for anything slightly resembling a business. Both PSF and ATF will form emulsions with acetone under mild agitation sufficient to thin the oil enough to penetrate. Upon standing, these will separate. Acetone performs better than the other commonly available organic solvents, such as methanol, but not as well as trichlor." Others in the thread suggest replacing the acetone with "mineral spirits of turpentine" (or aliphatic mineral spirits or stoddard solvent). 

After some more research into these, I found this excellent thread that goes into a similar home mix called "Ed's Red", often used by gun cleaners.  It very helpfully goes into the function of each of the ingredients (turpentine, ATF, and aliphatic mineral spirits, lanolin is optional), the history, and the developments of modern substitutes.  It's based on an older formula, but for example, a substitution for sperm whale oil had to be found after the 70s.

There's a lot of other formulas available on the Homemade firearm Cleaners and Lubricants page.

-Jack

[Jack'D]

Oh, and when he says PSF it's referring to power steering fluid, very similar to ATF.

[Have Blue]

Excellent links - thanks, Jack!

On 10/3/2012 5:05 PM, Jack'D wrote:

Thanks for posting this, I'm always interested in finding out ways to accomplish things using substances other than black-box "wonder cures".� I did a bit more research and found the following:

This discussion on a machinist's forum has a response from the author:

"The original homemade penetrating oil mixture called for using trichloroethelyne as the solvent. I cannot recommend trichlor for home shop use and definitely not for anything slightly resembling a business. Both PSF and ATF will form emulsions with acetone under mild agitation sufficient to thin the oil enough to penetrate. Upon standing, these will separate. Acetone performs better than the other commonly available organic solvents, such as methanol, but not as well as trichlor." Others in the thread suggest replacing the acetone with "mineral spirits of turpentine" (or aliphatic mineral spirits or stoddard solvent).�

After some more research into these, I found this excellent thread that goes into a similar home mix called "Ed's Red", often used by gun cleaners.� It very helpfully goes into the function of each of the ingredients (turpentine, ATF, and aliphatic mineral spirits, lanolin is optional), the history, and the developments of modern substitutes.� It's based on an older formula, but for example, a substitution for sperm whale oil had to be found after the 70s.

There's a lot of other formulas available on the Homemade firearm Cleaners and Lubricants page.

-Jack

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:22:46 PM UTC-5, ironmonger wrote:

A follow up to this article noted that the acetone and the oil were not co-miscible. The author had substituted acetone for a more nasty solvent with out actually trying it. Try mixing the ATF with mineral spirits instead. Those two work just as well.

Paul
WB9HCO
No trees were killed sending this message, but a tremendous number of electrons were terribly inconvienced...

On Oct 1, 2012 9:12 PM, "Ed Hagopian" <edhag...@gmail.com> wrote:

That sounds equally awesome and insanely nasty. How does one go about figuring out those two A: Mix without fume fun for the home family, and B: work as a penetrating oil?

On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:41:07 PM UTC-5, Mrspeed700 wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: ALEX W KOLANDER <mpale...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Doug Alfke <cw4...@yahoo.com>; Jeff Babe <jbab...@hotmail.com>; Timmy Ball <tl...@aol.com>; Rick Blaha <rbl...@pak-rite.com>; jeremy cannon <jd_c...@yahoo.com>; Todd Carrao <toddc...@yahoo.com>; Randy Connell <conn...@charter.net>; Donald DABEL <fies...@gmail.com>; Dino <dacr...@gmail.com>; Fred Falk <fal...@aol.com>; Bill Gorman <str...@tds.net>; Terry Hall <thal...@hotmail.com>; hosergump <hose...@yahoo.com>; Jim <Jimfal...@aol.com>; Jon <Krisjo...@aol.com>; Andreas Kolander <akola...@yahoo.com>; walter Krainer <walter...@yahoo.com>; Deanna L. Luedtke <cw2d...@yahoo.com>; Andy Mallon <andy....@we-energies.com>; ed martin <smar...@wi.rr.com>; Ted Matson <Tja...@aol.com>; Mike Mejchar <mej...@charter.net>; Mike Messmer <mmes...@wi.rr.com>; Jim Miller <ltcja...@sbcglobal.net>; bryan Much <bryan...@charter.net>; Brian Mueller <ccs...@gmail.com>; MVrban <MVr...@aol.com>; Jim NAPA <jdsp...@yahoo.com>; Karl Norris <kdno...@mech-ind.com>; Craig Pagelsdorf <moone...@hotmail.com>; gerald parchem <parc...@yahoo.com>; Tim Pfrang <tpf...@wi.rr.com>; Steve Poremba <steve....@gmail.com>; Jim Ransom <jimb...@wi.rr.com>; Rich <mrspe...@aol.com>; Roger Rodeghier <rrode...@wi.rr.com>; Tom Skudlarczyk <ts...@msn.com>; Mark Spitz <marks...@yahoo.com>; Chris Stoltmann <cstol...@wi.rr.com>; SusanS <porsc...@wi.rr.com>; RALEIGH SWAN <swangr...@hotmail.com>; John T Walls <jtw...@yahoo.com>; Rusty Wolf <hw...@wi.rr.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 8:15 pm
Subject: Fw: penetrating oils

--- On Sun, 9/30/12, Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> wrote:

From: Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> Subject: penetrating oils To: Date: Sunday, September 30, 2012, 11:17 PM

the mechanic in you may enjoy this.

� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �Penetrating Oils � Machinist�s Workshop Mag� recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a �scientifically rusted� environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load* None ........................... 516 pounds WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds ATF*-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a �home brew� mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the �home brew� was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.

Note also that �Liquid Wrench� is almost as good as �Kroil� for about 20% of the price.

Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is the best and you can also use ATF- lacquer thinner 50 - 50 mix.

� *ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid

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[Mrspeed700]

Just checked them out -cool.
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Have Blue <have...@airsoldier.com>
To: milwaukeemakerspace <milwaukee...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [MakerSpace] Re: penetrating oils

Excellent links - thanks, Jack!

On 10/3/2012 5:05 PM, Jack'D wrote:

Thanks for posting this, I'm always interested in finding out ways to accomplish things using substances other than black-box "wonder cures".  I did a bit more research and found the following:

This discussion on a machinist's forum has a response from the author:
"The original homemade penetrating oil mixture called for using trichloroethelyne as the solvent. I cannot recommend trichlor for home shop use and definitely not for anything slightly resembling a business. Both PSF and ATF will form emulsions with acetone under mild agitation sufficient to thin the oil enough to penetrate. Upon standing, these will separate. Acetone performs better than the other commonly available organic solvents, such as methanol, but not as well as trichlor." Others in the thread suggest replacing the acetone with "mineral spirits of turpentine" (or aliphatic mineral spirits or stoddard solvent). 

After some more research into these, I found this excellent thread that goes into a similar home mix called "Ed's Red", often used by gun cleaners.  It very helpfully goes into the function of each of the ingredients (turpentine, ATF, and aliphatic mineral spirits, lanolin is optional), the history, and the developments of modern substitutes.  It's based on an older formula, but for example, a substitution for sperm whale oil had to be found after the 70s.

There's a lot of other formulas available on the Homemade firearm Cleaners and Lubricants page.

-Jack

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:22:46 PM UTC-5, ironmonger wrote:

A follow up to this article noted that the acetone and the oil were not co-miscible. The author had substituted acetone for a more nasty solvent with out actually trying it. Try mixing the ATF with mineral spirits instead. Those two work just as well.

Paul
WB9HCO
No trees were killed sending this message, but a tremendous number of electrons were terribly inconvienced...

On Oct 1, 2012 9:12 PM, "Ed Hagopian" <edhag...@gmail.com> wrote:

That sounds equally awesome and insanely nasty. How does one go about figuring out those two A: Mix without fume fun for the home family, and B: work as a penetrating oil?

On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:41:07 PM UTC-5, Mrspeed700 wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: ALEX W KOLANDER <mpale...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Doug Alfke <cw4...@yahoo.com>; Jeff Babe <jbab...@hotmail.com>; Timmy Ball <tl...@aol.com>; Rick Blaha <rbl...@pak-rite.com>; jeremy cannon <jd_c...@yahoo.com>; Todd Carrao <toddc...@yahoo.com>; Randy Connell <conn...@charter.net>; Donald DABEL <fies...@gmail.com>; Dino <dacr...@gmail.com>; Fred Falk <fal...@aol.com>; Bill Gorman <str...@tds.net>; Terry Hall <thal...@hotmail.com>; hosergump <hose...@yahoo.com>; Jim <Jimfal...@aol.com>; Jon <Krisjo...@aol.com>; Andreas Kolander <akola...@yahoo.com>; walter Krainer <walter...@yahoo.com>; Deanna L. Luedtke <cw2d...@yahoo.com>; Andy Mallon <andy....@we-energies.com>; ed martin <smar...@wi.rr.com>; Ted Matson <Tja...@aol.com>; Mike Mejchar <mej...@charter.net>; Mike Messmer <mmes...@wi.rr.com>; Jim Miller <ltcja...@sbcglobal.net>; bryan Much <bryan...@charter.net>; Brian Mueller <ccs...@gmail.com>; MVrban <MVr...@aol.com>; Jim NAPA <jdsp...@yahoo.com>; Karl Norris <kdno...@mech-ind.com>; Craig Pagelsdorf <moone...@hotmail.com>; gerald parchem <parc...@yahoo.com>; Tim Pfrang <tpf...@wi.rr.com>; Steve Poremba <steve....@gmail.com>; Jim Ransom <jimb...@wi.rr.com>; Rich <mrspe...@aol.com>; Roger Rodeghier <rrode...@wi.rr.com>; Tom Skudlarczyk <ts...@msn.com>; Mark Spitz <marks...@yahoo.com>; Chris Stoltmann <cstol...@wi.rr.com>; SusanS <porsc...@wi.rr.com>; RALEIGH SWAN <swangr...@hotmail.com>; John T Walls <jtw...@yahoo.com>; Rusty Wolf <hw...@wi.rr.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 8:15 pm
Subject: Fw: penetrating oils

--- On Sun, 9/30/12, Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> wrote:

From: Craig A. Meyer <came...@att.net> Subject: penetrating oils To: Date: Sunday, September 30, 2012, 11:17 PM

the mechanic in you may enjoy this.

Penetrating Oils   Machinist’s Workshop Mag™ recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a “scientifically rusted” environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load* None ........................... 516 pounds WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds ATF*-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the “home brew” was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.

Note also that “Liquid Wrench” is almost as good as “Kroil” for about 20% of the price.

Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is the best and you can also use ATF- lacquer thinner 50 - 50 mix.

*ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid

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