A very good reason to never leave a laser cutter unattended - milwaukeemakerspace

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Message from discussion A very good reason to never leave a laser cutter unattended
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From: David Buggs <david.bu...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:54:03 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKM0Z-4A=3viN89Q=U5uORe_+dngfu6DeZ90QpukGut3SHc...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MakerSpace] Re: A very good reason to never leave a laser cutter unattended
To: milwaukeemakerspace@googlegroups.com
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Doesn't look like it would be difficult to build a C02 generator, or simply
buy one..
http://compare.ebay.com/like/170907889458?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Buggs


On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Kevin Crowley <caoha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Energy density and cost is why hydrocarbons are still used for rockets.
>
> per the dewar flask.
>
> In my ill spent youth i used to obsessively read all of the Amateur
> Scientist columns in the Scientific America. I remember an article for
> making your own.
> Does any one have access to the columns between '68 and '78?
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Have Blue <haveb...@airsoldier.com>wrote:
>
>>  Assuming that you have an empty tank (the vast majority of welding
>> suppliers simply do tank swaps - you bring in an empty, they give you a
>> different tank already filled), you'd probably pay around $30-$50 for a
>> tank of Nitrogen.
>>
>> Also, be aware that paintball shops and players will sometimes use the
>> term 'Nitrogen' to refer to plain old compressed air (HPA - High Pressure
>> Air), since 1) that's mostly what's in air anyway and 2) early on, some
>> fills _were_ actually pure Nitrogen (but that's hardly ever the case any
>> more).
>>
>> As Bill mentioned, you'll be better off price-wise by using CO2 instead.
>> Since CO2 actually is a liquid when stored in tanks/bottles, it is much
>> denser, so you can have much more CO2 in a tank than N2.  You can easily
>> regulate it down in pressure and feed it into the laser cutter.
>>
>> But all this discussion has mad me realize another building suggestion -
>> a dewar for liquid N2 storage.  Quick, to the wikimobile!
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/2012 6:17 PM, Kevin Crowley wrote:
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't mind helping with an experiment.  An experiment or
>> two is worth 10,000 speculations.
>>
>> I am in total agreement  that an expense that can be avoided is the
>> proverbial penny earned.  That being said there may be some benefits
>> accrued by using it in appropriate situations.  There are many materials
>> that seem to flare and scorch melt and boil and then flare. So one thing to
>> experiment with is can you get a cleaner cut by reducing the available
>> oxygen near the cut.
>>
>> Just so I know what does a tank of nitrogen of the size mentioned cost?
>> If the the experiment has some benefit I have some thoughts on how to
>> reduce gas use to just a few CF per use.
>>
>>
>>
>> I certainly would not
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Bill <wrmur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The cost for gases is a combination the boiling temp ( lower boiling
>>> temp = more expensive hardware = more costs) and relative abundance (argon
>>> costs >> nitrogen although it has a higher boiling point). But given the
>>> abundance of CO2 and N2, CO2 will always be cheaper for similar purity
>>> levels.   Now if you come up with a good way to catch Xenon and Krypton, we
>>> can corner the 248nm Excimer laser market.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
>
>
>
>

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Doesn&#39;t look like it would be difficult to build a C02 generator, or si=
mply buy one..<div><a href=3D"http://compare.ebay.com/like/170907889458?var=
=3Dlv&amp;ltyp=3DAllFixedPriceItemTypes&amp;var=3Dsbar">http://compare.ebay=
.com/like/170907889458?var=3Dlv&amp;ltyp=3DAllFixedPriceItemTypes&amp;var=
=3Dsbar</a></div>

<div><br clear=3D"all"><div>Buggs</div>
<div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:23=
 PM, Kevin Crowley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:caoha...@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">caoha...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">

Energy density and cost is why hydrocarbons are still used for rockets.<br>=
<br>per the dewar flask.<br><br>In my ill spent youth i used to obsessively=
 read all of the Amateur Scientist columns in the Scientific America. I rem=
ember an article for making your own.<br>


Does any one have access to the columns between &#39;68 and &#39;78?<br><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Have Blue <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haveb...@airsoldier.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">haveb...@airsoldier.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <div>Assuming that you have an empty tank
      (the vast majority of welding suppliers simply do tank swaps - you
      bring in an empty, they give you a different tank already filled),
      you&#39;d probably pay around $30-$50 for a tank of Nitrogen.<br>
      <br>
      Also, be aware that paintball shops and players will sometimes use
      the term &#39;Nitrogen&#39; to refer to plain old compressed air (HPA=
 -
      High Pressure Air), since 1) that&#39;s mostly what&#39;s in air anyw=
ay
      and 2) early on, some fills _were_ actually pure Nitrogen (but
      that&#39;s hardly ever the case any more).<br>
      <br>
      As Bill mentioned, you&#39;ll be better off price-wise by using CO2
      instead.=A0 Since CO2 actually is a liquid when stored in
      tanks/bottles, it is much denser, so you can have much more CO2 in
      a tank than N2.=A0 You can easily regulate it down in pressure and
      feed it into the laser cutter.<br>
      <br>
      But all this discussion has mad me realize another building
      suggestion - a dewar for liquid N2 storage.=A0 Quick, to the
      wikimobile!<div><div><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 10/25/2012 6:17 PM, Kevin Crowley wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>I certainly wouldn&#39;t mind helpi=
ng with an experiment.=A0
      An experiment or two is worth 10,000 speculations.<br>
      <br>
      I am in total agreement=A0 that an expense that can be avoided is
      the proverbial penny earned.=A0 That being said there may be some
      benefits accrued by using it in appropriate situations.=A0 There are
      many materials that seem to flare and scorch melt and boil and
      then flare. So one thing to experiment with is can you get a
      cleaner cut by reducing the available oxygen near the cut.<br>
      <br>
      Just so I know what does a tank of nitrogen of the size mentioned
      cost?=A0 If the the experiment has some benefit I have some thoughts
      on how to reduce gas use to just a few CF per use.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      I certainly would not <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Bill <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wrmur...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
wrmur...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          The cost for gases is a combination the boiling temp ( lower
          boiling temp =3D more expensive hardware =3D more costs) and
          relative abundance (argon costs &gt;&gt; nitrogen although it
          has a higher boiling point). But given the abundance of CO2
          and N2, CO2 will always be cheaper for similar purity levels.
          =A0 Now if you come up with a good way to catch Xenon and
          Krypton, we can corner the 248nm Excimer laser market.<br>
          <span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
              --<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </font></span></blockquote>
      </div>
      <br></div></div>
      -- <br>
      =A0<br>
      =A0<br>
      =A0<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
  </font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">


<p></p>

-- <br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><br>

<p></p>

-- <br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
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