Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr2464832bku.8.1335841854478; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: milwaukeemakerspace@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.5.133 with SMTP id 5ls1801451bkv.0.gmail; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.132.81 with SMTP id a17mr1123206bkt.4.1335841852483; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.132.81 with SMTP id a17mr1123205bkt.4.1335841852458; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f49.google.com (mail-bk0-f49.google.com [209.85.214.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k15si21444796bks.0.2012.04.30.20.10.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kevinbas...@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.49; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kevinbas...@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kevinbas...@gmail.com; dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received: by bkty7 with SMTP id y7so3520570bkt.22 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=8/spLT9zS+xsKpOywC4O27FBEIW+EkVF+E8ahILXeX8=; b=XkKgFTtdICU0MeNF8iOrxEIwNDiukOh4hlE6crzHHRe8jxGqYms+0FTUvdFWeuQdTp haRgO8ddh4Z6rupdvR9Wl/6wdzlJZL663GAZsQSVVClEYl74taD3GiLfODhG33H8kJZb IaQIvIppS113o+w6B02rgc9lHsCl+app1pAUt6ryJDm1V2SpBCzRIglP1MUVqMkwP0WA t8TvQHDHnvV2STI1SHkd01f671sKlEmg2xobUjuBNhYz3nNLDfCPidAYt6tse1zcbjEi Uq77u22MCkqULRejrGXRL2l557zJzD1QNBLpL0ZyK1ZNCogeRCRQFRFIGwO4ZnAQ71k8 Fwtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.84 with SMTP id w20mr7974562bks.65.1335841852246; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.143.153 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49773B80-961F-4648-82E9-C968D5AC1...@gmail.com> References: <20120430131634.GA13...@panix.com> <3feee138-5fa5-4d36-b808-d3f840976...@36g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <4F9EBF10.6030...@gmail.com> <22158756.1159.1335812095812.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yniw15> <49773B80-961F-4648-82E9-C968D5AC1...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:10:52 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [MakerSpace] Re: Tom's etching video on Hack-a-Day From: Kevin Bastyr To: milwaukeemakerspace@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747be08144bc004bef0ebe6 --00151747be08144bc004bef0ebe6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Oh, did I say 800 page views? I meant 1800... On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:52 PM, David R. wrote: > Amateur hour chemistry! Now we are talking! > > David R. > > On Apr 30, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Kevin Crowley wrote: > > Use a blast cabinet that is reasonably well sealed and vented either > outdoors, through a canister of active charcoal or through a 55 gallon drum > filled with water and baking soda, even all three in a sequence of > charcoal, water and outdoors. > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Adam Cohen wrote: > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcTL7Hig8h4 >> >> Make it happen Pete. >> >> >> >> Good info Jack. Maybe we should run one of these tests.. But I still >> feel like its amateur hour. >> >> Tim, We need some input from a chem prof. >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 30, 2012 11:34:24 AM UTC-5, Pete Prodoehl wrote: >>> >>> >>> This sounds dangerous enough that a human shouldn't be doing it... >>> >>> I propose we build a robot to etch boards using this method. >>> >>> Right now I'm thinking two remotely controlled robot arms we can place >>> far away from the operator with multiple cameras for remote viewing. >>> >>> (I can further research the feasibility of such a robot with a $10,000 >>> grant.) >>> >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> On 4/30/12 11:23 AM, Kevin Bastyr wrote: >>> >>> There is no doubt that this method of making circuit boards is awesome >>> and spectacular! Lasers and boiling acid - Together! Its fantastic if >>> some careful members etch this way routinely - it would be even more >>> fantastic if this happened in a fume hood. The concentrations of the HCL >>> and H2O2 are high enough that someone will eventually not be careful, and >>> will definitely be hurt. >>> >>> I agree that the aerated bath method was releasing chlorine gas, as the >>> entire lab smelled like chlorine (i.e. like chlorine bleach) during the >>> etching. >>> >>> Etching with concentrated H2O2 away from the lab is an improvement for >>> almost everyone. However, the person etching in the very low sink will >>> have his nose is directly above the boiling (and rising) cloud of HCL or >>> CL. This seems like a bad idea. At least when Tom was seated his nose was >>> not directly above the rising fumes. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Royce Pipkins wrote: >>> >>>> I don't think the vapor was as bad as the aerated acid bathes. And >>>> there is just plain less of it for much less time. I think the sink >>>> will work fine. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Shane wrote: >>>> > Y'know, we do have an exhaust fan (of some type) sitting on the Hack >>>> > Rack...not that it would last very long under those circumstances. >>>> > >>>> > Also, on a still day, this should work fine outdoors. Maybe we need a >>>> > mobile lab to wheel out to the parking lot.... >>>> > >>>> > On Apr 30, 8:16 am, Ron Bean >>>> wrote: >>>> >> http://hackaday.com/2012/04/**30/etching-your-own-boards-** >>>> really-really-. >>>> .. >>>> >> >>>> >> Several comments saying it's too dangerous >>>> >> (and keep the chemicals away from anything that can corrode) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do. >>>> B. F. Skinner >>>> >>> >>> > --00151747be08144bc004bef0ebe6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, did I say 800 page views? =A0I meant 1800...


On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:52 PM, David R. <videovilla...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amateur hour c= hemistry! =A0Now we are talking!

David R.

On Apr 30, = 2012, at 4:49 PM, Kevin Crowley <caoha...@gmail.com> wrote:

=
Use a blast cabinet that is reasonably well sealed and vented either o= utdoors, through a canister of active charcoal or through a 55 gallon drum = filled with water and baking soda, even all three in a sequence of charcoal= , water and outdoors.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Adam Cohen = <adam.cohen.mail...@gmail.com> wrote:
= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DEcTL7Hig8h4

Make it= happen Pete.



Good i= nfo Jack. =A0Maybe we should run one of these tests.. But I still feel like= its amateur hour. =A0

Tim, We need some input from a chem prof.




On Monday, April 30, 2012 11:34:24 A= M UTC-5, Pete Prodoehl wrote:
=20 =20 =20

This sounds dangerous enough that a human shouldn't be doing it...<= br>
I propose we build a robot to etch boards using this method.

Right now I'm thinking two remotely controlled robot arms we can place far away from the operator with multiple cameras for remote viewing.

(I can further research the feasibility of such a robot with a $10,000 grant.)


Pete

On 4/30/12 11:23 AM, Kevin Bastyr wrote:
There is no doubt that this method of making = circuit boards is awesome and spectacular!=A0 Lasers and boiling acid - Together!=A0 Its fantastic if some careful members etch this way routinely - it would be even more fantastic if this happened in a fume hood.=A0 The concentrations of the HCL and H2O2 are high enough that someone will eventually not be careful, and will definitely be hurt.=A0

I agree that the aerated bath method was releasing chlorine gas, as the entire lab smelled like chlorine (i.e. like chlorine bleach) during the etching.=A0

Etching with concentrated H2O2 away from the lab is an improvement for almost everyone.=A0=A0 However, the person etching in the very lo= w sink will have his nose is directly above the boiling (and rising) cloud of HCL or CL.=A0 This seems like a bad idea.=A0 At least when Tom was seated his nose was not directly above the rising fumes.



On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Royce Pipkins <royce.pipk...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think the vapor was as bad as the aerated acid bathes= . And
there is just plain less of it for much less time. I think the sink
will work fine.



On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Shane <Impe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Y'know, we do have an exhaust fan (of some type) sitting on the Hack
> Rack...not that it would last very long under those circumstances.
>
> Also, on a still day, this should work fine outdoors. =A0Maybe we need a
> mobile lab to wheel out to the parking lot....
>
> On Apr 30, 8:16=A0am, Ron Bean <makersp...@rbean.u= sers.panix.com> wrote:
>> http://hackaday.com/2012/0= 4/30/etching-your-own-boards-really-really-...
>>
>> Several comments saying it's too dangerous
>> (and keep the chemicals away from anything that can corrode)



--
The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do.
B. F. Skinner



--00151747be08144bc004bef0ebe6--