Welding cast aluminum?

[Brad Dunagan]

I know there are welders in this group.  How are you at what I think is cast aluminum?

 

Its a kick starter off my bike.  Picture of the damage is attached.

 

I do not have the piece that broke off.

 

Right now I am thinking about multiple operations in the repair.  First I will try to mill the broken area to get flat surfaces.  I will drill a hole vertically up the part for a steal bolt.  I will machine a piece that will be bolted into place.  Then I wll try to wrap reinforcement strips around the whole thing.  Finally, weld.

 

And I am certainly open to other ideas and suggestions.

 

Thanks.

[Chad Miller]

Cut it in half, reverse the other side of the cast and pour.  Aluminum isn't great for welding, IMHO.   If it is all aluminum, you can cast it.  Go go gadget beer can!

Chad Miller

<IMG_2300[1].jpg>

[Daniel Hess]

I do remember Kit saying something about needing special stuff to weld aluminum. 

Maybe he can provide insight. I also bet Ben will have some sort of off the wall idea on how to replace it with the cheapest stuff possible. 

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

[Ben Eishen]

JB weld baby, that stuff is better than ducktape :p

All joking aside, I do remember some kind of aluminum epoxy that is supposed to work wonders. I've seen it used on car compressors to make a new threaded bolt ear.

Sent from my iPhone

[Keith]

Aluminum welding rods can be used to solder aluminum.

I picked mine up at Southaven Supply but Lowes or Home Depot should carry them.

I've used them to solder small pieces of aluminum using a propane torch and larger pieces using MAP gas.

You have to be careful as it is easy to melt the aluminum with MAP gas, though.

 

Take Care,

 

Keith

[Walter Stokes]

Hey guys, lemme share what I know about aluminum:

You can solder with a good torch and aluminum rods, but you run a real risk of melting the workpiece. The device that is commonly used to weld aluminum is called a TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas). It's a frequency transformer with gas port to keep the aluminum from oxidizing (it likes to oxidize rapidly). I can't remember exactly, but I think you need to use a mix of CO2 and Argon. Then you use a tungsten rod to feed into the arc. It's a cool process and there are lots of videos online if you're interested. A TIG torch is very expensive and takes a lot of experience to be good at. I've seen a guy weld a coke can back together with one, though, so you they can do just about anything.

I think the right response is JB Weld. Of course, a new kickstand costs about as much as a tube of JB Weld... So whatever....

[Ben Eishen]

We do have a tig at the space, but no argon, just co2. But kit would be the expert on that subject.
--
Ben S. Eishen
773.234.7436 | b...@eishen.com
9160 Hwy. 64, Suite 12-302, Lakeland, TN 38002

[Walter Stokes]

Are you sure? I know there's a MIG up there, but that's another beast entirely.

[Ben Eishen]

Thanks to kit, we have the mig, arc, plasma cutter, and tig :D

Sent from my iPhone

[Ed Stafford]

Aluminum welding...  FUN stuff!!

Aluminum requires 100% argon, not a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix, at least with respect to GMAW welding

Welding cast vs. forged, I don't think there's much of a difference outside of the typical "MOVE FAST" method

TIG is a lot easier to control, but if you have a spool gun for the MIG welder, either is doable.  The big thing I see with that kick starter is you've got a LOT of area to contend with which is not on the outside.  Here's my recommendations:

Don't mill the 2 pieces. 
Place them back together and tack-weld the edges in place
Drill 3 holes perpendicular to the break
Tap holes
Use Aluminum screws or all-thread - Don't use steel - put thread sealer (loc-tite) on the threads and tighten down
Weld the outside edges via MIG or TIG
grind down the threads/screws flat and weld the tops flush
Grind/sand everything smooth, polish, drink beer

--
Ed Stafford

[Walter Stokes]

Oh! Kick starter, not kick stand...

Ed is right about using the MIG with a spool gun, of course. I just didn't think there was a spool gun up there.

Maybe you should consider making a new one out of steel?

[Kitten]

Ok, we have a MIG, DC TIG, DC Stick, and PAC up at the space. there is
aluminum wire and a spool gun is not required to do aluminum with mig,
it makes life way easier but 100% argon is required either way. to
properly tig aluminum you need an AC TIG machine but you can do DC TIG
using ultra high purity helium. or you could stick weld the aluminum
using special rods.

A few words of warning about welding aluminum. Not all grades of
aluminum are weldable, this isn't a huge issue on something like a
kick starter but something you should be aware of if there is a chance
of someone getting seriously hurt if the weld fails. The flux on
stick electrodes for aluminum is corrosive to aluminum in order to
remove the aluminum oxide passivation layer so the metal fuses. thus
you should only use stick electrodes if you can get at the back of the
weld and you must use caution not to get slag inclusions as they will
cause the weld to fail over time.

in short without ultra high purity helium (really spendy), we can only
weld aluminum using the mig machine at the space. i didn't measure
the aluminum wire we have so i don't know if the liner or tip are the
right diameter for the aluminum wire we have.

On Mar 21, 8:52 am, Walter Stokes <wwsto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh! Kick starter, not kick stand...
>
> Ed is right about using the MIG with a spool gun, of course. I just didn't
> think there was a spool gun up there.
>
> Maybe you should consider making a new one out of steel?

> On Mar 21, 2012 8:29 AM, "Ed Stafford" <ed.staff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Aluminum welding...  FUN stuff!!
>
> > Aluminum requires 100% argon, not a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix, at least with
> > respect to GMAW welding
>
> > Welding cast vs. forged, I don't think there's much of a difference
> > outside of the typical "MOVE FAST" method
>
> > TIG is a lot easier to control, but if you have a spool gun for the MIG
> > welder, either is doable.  The big thing I see with that kick starter is
> > you've got a LOT of area to contend with which is not on the outside.
> > Here's my recommendations:
>
> > Don't mill the 2 pieces.
> > Place them back together and tack-weld the edges in place
> > Drill 3 holes perpendicular to the break
> > Tap holes
> > Use Aluminum screws or all-thread - Don't use steel - put thread sealer
> > (loc-tite) on the threads and tighten down
> > Weld the outside edges via MIG or TIG
> > grind down the threads/screws flat and weld the tops flush
> > Grind/sand everything smooth, polish, drink beer
>
> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Ben Eishen <b...@eishen.com> wrote:
>
> >> Thanks to kit, we have the mig, arc, plasma cutter, and tig :D
>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
>

> >> On Mar 20, 2012, at 11:22 PM, Walter Stokes <wwsto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Are you sure? I know there's a MIG up there, but that's another beast
> >> entirely.

> >> On Mar 20, 2012 11:13 PM, "Ben Eishen" < <b...@eishen.com>b...@eishen.com>

> >> wrote:
>
> >>> We do have a tig at the space, but no argon, just co2. But kit would be
> >>> the expert on that subject.
> >>> --
> >>> Ben S. Eishen

> >>> 773.234.7436 | <b...@eishen.com>b...@eishen.com

> >>> 9160 Hwy. 64, Suite 12-302, Lakeland, TN 38002
>

> >>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Walter Stokes < <wwsto...@gmail.com>
> >>> wwsto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Hey guys, lemme share what I know about aluminum:
>
> >>>> You can solder with a good torch and aluminum rods, but you run a real
> >>>> risk of melting the workpiece. The device that is commonly used to weld
> >>>> aluminum is called a TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas). It's a frequency transformer
> >>>> with gas port to keep the aluminum from oxidizing (it likes to oxidize
> >>>> rapidly). I can't remember exactly, but I think you need to use a mix of
> >>>> CO2 and Argon. Then you use a tungsten rod to feed into the arc. It's a
> >>>> cool process and there are lots of videos online if you're interested. A
> >>>> TIG torch is very expensive and takes a lot of experience to be good at.
> >>>> I've seen a guy weld a coke can back together with one, though, so you they
> >>>> can do just about anything.
>
> >>>> I think the right response is JB Weld. Of course, a new kickstand costs
> >>>> about as much as a tube of JB Weld... So whatever....
>

> >>>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Keith < <kstova...@comcast.net>
> >>>> kstova...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>> **

> >>>>> Aluminum welding rods can be used to solder aluminum.
> >>>>> I picked mine up at Southaven Supply but Lowes or Home Depot should
> >>>>> carry them.
> >>>>> I've used them to solder small pieces of aluminum using a propane
> >>>>> torch and larger pieces using MAP gas.
> >>>>> You have to be careful as it is easy to melt the aluminum with MAP
> >>>>> gas, though.
>
> >>>>> Take Care,
>
> >>>>> Keith
>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----

> >>>>> *From:* Ben Eishen <b...@eishen.com>
> >>>>> *To:* <midsout...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>>> midsout...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:33 PM
> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [MidsouthMakers] Welding cast aluminum?

>
> >>>>> JB weld baby, that stuff is better than ducktape :p
>
> >>>>> All joking aside, I do remember some kind of aluminum epoxy that is
> >>>>> supposed to work wonders. I've seen it used on car compressors to make a
> >>>>> new threaded bolt ear.
>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>

> >>>>> On Mar 20, 2012, at 7:10 PM, Daniel Hess < <dan9...@gmail.com>

> >>>>> dan9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>   I do remember Kit saying something about needing special stuff to
> >>>>> weld aluminum.
>
> >>>>> Maybe he can provide insight. I also bet Ben will have some sort of
> >>>>> off the wall idea on how to replace it with the cheapest stuff possible.
>
> >>>>> Daniel
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>

> >>>>> On Mar 20, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Chad Miller < <cwmil...@gmail.com><cwmil...@gmail.com>

> >>>>> cwmil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>   Cut it in half, reverse the other side of the cast and pour.
> >>>>>  Aluminum isn't great for welding, IMHO.   If it is all aluminum, you can
> >>>>> cast it.  Go go gadget beer can!
>
> >>>>> Chad Miller
>

> >>>>> On Mar 20, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Brad Dunagan < <brad.duna...@gmail.com><brad.duna...@gmail.com>

[Brad Dunagan]

Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions.  I will bring the kicker (what is in the picture) to the meeting this Friday (if anyone wants a closer look).

[Ed Stafford]

Wow!!  Didn't realize you guys had gotten that much welding gear up there now.. very cool!

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Brad Dunagan <brad.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions.  I will bring the kicker (what is in the picture) to the meeting this Friday (if anyone wants a closer look).

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Kitten <ske...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, we have a MIG, DC TIG, DC Stick, and PAC up at the space. there is
aluminum wire and a spool gun is not required to do aluminum with mig,
it makes life way easier but 100% argon is required either way.  to
properly tig aluminum you need an AC TIG machine but you can do DC TIG
using ultra high purity helium. or you could stick weld the aluminum
using special rods.

A few words of warning about welding aluminum. Not all grades of
aluminum are weldable, this isn't a huge issue on something like a
kick starter but something you should be aware of if there is a chance
of someone getting seriously hurt if the weld fails.  The flux on
stick electrodes for aluminum is corrosive to aluminum in order to
remove the aluminum oxide passivation layer so the metal fuses. thus
you should only use stick electrodes if you can get at the back of the
weld and you must use caution not to get slag inclusions as they will
cause the weld to fail over time.

in short without ultra high purity helium (really spendy), we can only
weld aluminum using the mig machine at the space.  i didn't measure
the aluminum wire we have so i don't know if the liner or tip are the
right diameter for the aluminum wire we have.

--
Ed Stafford