Potential Space / Moving MidsouthMakers to Bartlett

[jfer...@midsouthmakers.org]

Greetings Makers,

As a forewarning, this email will likely be long, but is full of important and exciting news (the board hopes you are as excited about it as we are).

On May 1st I sent out an email with some pretty vague information on the possibility of us moving the space to the Bartlett area. We've listened to everyone's insights from the replies of that email and we've talked to various members who have brought up concerns to us and we've done the best we could at the time to address those concerns. I'm sending this out to get the info we've collected over the past 2 weeks to you. 

Facts about the new space:

• 2802 Bartlett Rd Bartlett, TN 38134
• 2100 sq ft 
• Pictures: http://www.midsouthmakers.org/bartlett-space/
• Front room (Shop) ~26'x30' 2 Offices ~13'x12'
• Full bathroom (Sink, Toilet, Shower)
• Entire space is Heated and Air Conditioned
• Front Door, Roll up door on front wall, Rear Door
• We plan to tear down the interior office walls to create 2 large spaces 1 Shop, 1 general area.
• We will be between 2 other businesses attached to the same building

If we decide to go forward with the move our rent will go from $800/month to $850/month. We'll be signing a two year lease. One or more board members will be signing the lease as a personal guarantor. There will likely be some nominal fees involved from Comcast and MLG&W to transfer our service to the new location. There will also be a small cost involved in duplicating new keys for all the current members. We will have to give our current landlord 30 days notice. We have not done this yet, as we wanted to get everyone the info and hear input first.

The board will be present at the space this Wednesday night 5/16 and at Republic Coffee Friday 5/18 to discuss the move and answer any questions. In order to move forward we need to hear back from the membership. We would also like to hear from non-members since you are all potential members. The reaction we have seen so far has been positive. We (the board) unanimously support the decision to move to Bartlett. There has been much discussion among the board about all the various aspects of the move and we feel we have reached a point to bring all of this information to you all. 

--
- Joe Ferguson
http://www.midsouthmakers.org

[MemphisArtGuy]

Looks way small. I think a member walk threw would be needed to get my vote. I drove threw there last weekend check the local shops out, and they all seem kinda small.

[jfer...@midsouthmakers.org]

The total square footage is smaller than what we currently have. The thing to remember is this will be 100% completely ours. The total space we have this is "ours" I believe is less than 2100 sq ft.

The other reason it's likely looking smaller is that the current tenant has an amazing amount of crap in there.

[jfer...@midsouthmakers.org]

I'd love to do a member walk through. However the Realtor/landlord will only do a walk through during business hours (8-5 Mon-Friday) Is there a particular day of the week that would be better for members to meet up there?

[Ed Stafford]

Can you get some measured floor plans from the Realtor?  Specifically regarding the office space?  Also, do they have restrictions on things such as bottles of acetylene, O2, etc?

--
Ed Stafford

[Dan Hess]

On the small vs big and what we have vs 2100sqft, I do think this is something worth being concerned with, but I also I think there is a very good point to make about it.

Keep in mind this isn't the only place we've even looked at.  We've inquired about 4 or 5 different places, and with more than one realtor.  We've been laughed at when we tell them our price point.  And this place in Bartlett, we had to really swing some deals to even get it down to $850/mo.  They originally wanted $1000/mo.  Bottom line of it all, it wasn't easy finding somewhere that met a large portion of our needs that also fell within our price point that we could even hope to afford.  This means that we come to a very unfortunate truth of the matter, in order to get more space we need more money coming in every month.  Until we can get that, there is no point in even hoping to get more space.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[Danny Chamberlin]

Speaking of ways to get money, I saw that Maker's Local 256 is the beneficiary of the DeepSouthCon 50 charity auction at the convention (in Huntsville) in June. I also saw an article about another makerspace starting a kickstarter project - just a couple of things to cogitate about (I can tell you that MSC's Charity Auction is already dedicated)

Danny

[Dan Hess]

While linked to what I mentioned (and ideas for money are always important), if you don't mind starting a separate thread for that.  It would be preferential for this to remain about issues and concerns (or hu-rahs) directly connected to the potential space.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[gatesofmemphis]

Here's the zoning map of Bartlett, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=219.  It appears that the space would be CG-MS.

Here's the Bartlett Zoning Ordinance, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=973, including a permitted use table. 

[gatesofmemphis]

re: space size, if it's continuous and not shared, it's a major improvement.  However, I imagine we'll have a problem with storage of donated stuff and in-between projects.

[Joe Ferguson]

You're definitely right, space is going to become a premium and what it is going to mean for a few members is that they won't be able to house all of their projects at the space. And we won't be able to store everything we're currently storing.

The space will be 2 large rooms. see  http://www.midsouthmakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ghetto-Drawing.png  for a rough idea.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM, gatesofmemphis <gatesof...@gmail.com> wrote:

re: space size, if it's continuous and not shared, it's a major improvement.  However, I imagine we'll have a problem with storage of donated stuff and in-between projects.

[gatesofmemphis]

re: zoning, very quickly it looks like MSM would be non-conforming to the CG-MS zoning.  

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:25:16 AM UTC-5, gatesofmemphis wrote:

Here's the zoning map of Bartlett, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=219.  It appears that the space would be CG-MS.

Here's the Bartlett Zoning Ordinance, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=973, including a permitted use table. 

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:25:16 AM UTC-5, gatesofmemphis wrote:

Here's the zoning map of Bartlett, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=219.  It appears that the space would be CG-MS.

Here's the Bartlett Zoning Ordinance, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=973, including a permitted use table. 

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:25:16 AM UTC-5, gatesofmemphis wrote:

Here's the zoning map of Bartlett, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=219.  It appears that the space would be CG-MS.

Here's the Bartlett Zoning Ordinance, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=973, including a permitted use table. 

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:25:16 AM UTC-5, gatesofmemphis wrote:

Here's the zoning map of Bartlett, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=219.  It appears that the space would be CG-MS.

Here's the Bartlett Zoning Ordinance, http://www.cityofbartlett.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=973, including a permitted use table. 

[Joe Ferguson]

In what way?

[gatesofmemphis]

Assuming a blank means not-permitted, according to the permitted use table we wouldn't be able to do anything in the Industrial category. 

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:05:30 PM UTC-5, Joe wrote:

In what way?

[gatesofmemphis]

Note that non-conforming may not mean we can't do it (http://real-estate-law.freeadvice.com/real-estate-law/zoning/non_conforming_use.htm) just that we should talk to a zoning official before signing a lease.

[Joe Ferguson]

Interesting. I assumed we would be classified as Services: Personal since we are a private group. 

[Trent Bontly]

Better make sure, Bartlett is anal about zoning, I would see if you can make sure the lease covers it too, so if zoning changes or they just decide that MSM should be reclassified.  Also I couldn't tell from the photos, is there a 'yard' area?

[Dan Hess]

Cliff may be able to speak to it better, but he knows of a sign shop very close by that does a decent bit of metal working.  I would think it would be safe to assume they do welding of some sort.

According to the landlord it is zoned light industrial already, and when asked about several of our areas of interest seemed to not bat an eye at the notion of it.  I have a feeling that this is in part because one of the neighbors in the building in the same lot does, from what I understand, some extensive car work/repair/rebuilding.  That too I would think is well above and beyond anything that we want to do.

Just so it be known, Ben has also already contacted the code enforcement for Bartlett to see if we could get details on the area for some of the things we know we'd like to do.  Nothing negative back yet, but we've also not heard anything back from them either.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[Joe Ferguson]

I contacted City Planning and Zoning and am currently waiting on the City Planner to return from lunch.

[gatesofmemphis]

Yeah, those uses may not apply as we don't provide those services to the public.  

[Cliff Gurlen]

The sign company I have ties to (Frank Balton Sign) is on Pleasant View and is in Memphis so Bartlett code is not involved.  One item of note is: as I read the code, repairs/welding/etc would need to be indoors.

cliff  

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Dan Hess <dan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Joe Ferguson]

Talked to the City Planner for Bartlett. Told her who we were and what we were going to be doing and she said that would be no problem at all. The only catch is we can't just put any signage on the door / windows. We have to get it approved by the city and I've got the contact info of who we need to go through for that.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Ed Stafford <ed.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

Figures... dang!

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Dan Hess <dan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking at what it says is available, the $1000/mo (still out of our price range) is 2 acres of land.  The 4200sqft flex space on the property is $1750/mo.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Ed Stafford <ed.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's one.. 87k feet Industrial zoned - $1000/mo.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=17233295&SRID=2599895909&StepID=101

--
Ed Stafford

--
Ed Stafford

[gatesofmemphis]

Excellent!

[Ben Eishen]

Woot! Woot!
--
Ben S. Eishen
773.234.7436 | b...@eishen.com
9160 Hwy. 64, Suite 12-302, Lakeland, TN 38002

[claudio donndelinger]

Can I get excited now?

CD

[Sonny Mounicou]

Joe,

That is great news. Can we get a written confirmation for complete closure?

--Sonny

[MemphisArtGuy]

Ok So let me just fact check...... Let me know if any of these are wrong as I just dont want us to get "Grass is greener" syndrome.

 

 

Pro:

Not shared space (no land lord dropping off random items )

Bigger common space ( could aid in building community )

all areas has H&AC ( good for shares areas )

In Bartlett (safer than current location )

Full Bath ( no need for safety shower, people can be clean )

Public area and between two businesses  ( Traffic, high visability )

Safety is much improved

 

 

Cons:

Bigger common space ( fumes, light, noise will be shared by all )

Cost of transfering Services.

Can only be view during business hours of 8 - 5 M-F. ( members would have to take off work to view )

rent goes up $50 in price

2 year contract of lease/rent v.s. Month to Month ( wouldn't be able to move if we our grew the space )

all areas has H&AC ( Open the roll up door and heat or cooling is gone. )

In Bartlett ( over active police, code enforcement, and other branch of goverment )

Public area and between two businesses  ( No privaticy, have to be more causous with neihbors and thier businesses and parking )

Less over all space and limited 2 rooms v.s. 7 smaller rooms we currently have.

Zoned light industrial v.s. Industrial

all repairs, welding, and other activites would be inside.

("Is there a smiking area?")

[Danny Chamberlin]

I don't know - how do you smike?
Danny

[John Wood]

C'mon, in Lumpy-Speak everyones knows he meant Smiling space. I'm sure we can smile outside all we want Mr. Lumpster

[Joe Ferguson]

Dru,

I'd agree with most of your pros and cons with the following comments:

• Code enforcement shouldn't be an issue since we've already been cleared via city planning.
• It will be less overall space. But it will be OUR space to do with what we want.
• Landlord can't come in and dump stuff on top of us whenever he wants
• Anywhere we went we'd have to sign AT LEAST another 1 year lease. So 2 years for the price break is worthwhile.
• If we get to a point where we outgrow this space before the 2 years, we should have a lot more income to use to break the lease.

I'm not sure about a smoking area. I assume out back would be fine. I haven't' seen anything that would suggest otherwise.

[Thomas Pledge]

To sort of echo what Joe was saying you are lumping together the Con's of moving and the Con's specific to the location in question.

So to further break down what you are saying 

Cons of Moving:

- Cost of transfering Services

- 2 year contract of lease/rent v.s. Month to Month ( wouldn't be able to move if we our grew the space )

Cons of Specific Location:

- Bigger common space ( fumes, light, noise will be shared by all )

- Rent goes up $50 in price

- All areas has H&AC ( Open the roll up door and heat or cooling is gone. )

- In Bartlett ( over active police, code enforcement, and other branch of government )

- Public area and between two businesses  ( No privacy, have to be more causous with neihbors and thier businesses and parking )

- Less over all space and limited 2 rooms v.s. 7 smaller rooms we currently have.

- All repairs, welding, and other activities would be inside.

About the viewing only being business hours of 8 - 5 M-F I would consider that more of a hurtle than really a Con.  Maybe we can't all see the location if but it will not be a permanent negative to renting the location.

To add to the PRO's list:

- Like Joe said it would be OUR space.  We could truly clean the place up and make it presentable.  

- A Makerspace will always inherently be dangerous place but we could really cut down on the "Watch your step there are nails and debris everywhere" danger.

- I don't think safety of the area can be stressed enough.  People will feel comfortable being there, parking there, and working there. 

- I feel like a better location will help attract College Age and Families to join the space.

- If we get a better space it may not be necessarily to meet at Republic Coffee anymore so one does not need to check the website to know where a meeting is.

- If the has a nice common area we might get more people to just come and hang out in the space and not only be there to work on a project.

Most of these are just PRO to moving in general and moving to Bartlett.  I haven't seen the space so I can't comment specifically on the Location.  A decent common area where 15 to 25 people and can sit and chit chat I think would do wonders at building a community.

[Dan Hess]

I do have a few things I can add in to these points myself that are just further pieces for us to consider.

• 2 year contract of lease/rent v.s. Month to Month ( wouldn't be able to move if we our grew the space )

Considering month to month is only advantageous in deciding not to move at all.  And that is only applicable as well I would say if we don't look to even renegotiate anything.

We may not even have to break the lease if it does come down to out growing the space.  Almost all landlords would much rather keep a tenant especially if they are paying, than they would lose them at the end of their lease.  So unless he's the extremely weird exception to the generalization, he has multiple properties, and I am sure would be willing for us to sign another lease on a bigger property.  If I were a betting kind of person, I would be willing to bet he likes having money as opposed to not.

• In Bartlett ( over active police, code enforcement, and other branch of goverment )

Overactive police is only a con if you're doing something you're not supposed to.  Granted this group has a greater propensity for it, but short of starting fires inside I don't see a lot that we are going to do to really stir up more trouble than benefit we would get from having police around.

• all areas has H&AC ( Open the roll up door and heat or cooling is gone. )

I do agree that it is a going point to make about the heating and air going out the door as soon as we open the garage door.  I think that it is also equally relevant to note that in our current situation, whether you have the door open, closed, cracked, or sideways, we have no awesome heating or air in the current shop.  So even if we do have to deal with attempts to warm or cool the greater Bartlett area, that is a better problem to deal with than having none.

• Zoned light industrial v.s. Industrial (all repairs, welding, and other activites would be inside.)

While we do have the advantage of being able to use the yard for these things right now, I'm not sure that this is solely a Con for us to consider.  If the entire space is HVAC, then it may be quite desirable to do most of these things inside.  All activities would not HAVE to be inside either.  There are plenty that we could do outside, just not all of them could we do outside.  One of the things we currently use the outside for is ventilation, and I think this is where the space being 100% ours comes in handy.  It will be possible, and much easier for us to put in ventilation as we please to do any of those things we need it for now.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[Nick]

How does being zoned light industrial instead of industrial impact us,
anyway? I didn't read through the entire Bartlett code PDF from
earlier, but does that specify what restrictions are present for that?
I'm not sure what we'd do that qualifies as heavy industry. There are
car garages and ATV shops nearby, so I'd imagine most of what we want
to do will be within reason (or kept indoors, if particularly
worrisome, yanno?).

I am trying to remain objective and cautious about changing locations,
too... it'll be a fair amount of effort and expense to move
everything, so it's not a decision to take lightly. So far, though,
this new place seems like it'd be worth all the hassle. I'm getting
very excited about having a much larger, A/Ced environment. Our house
is too small for gatherings. Our shop is too hot/cold. I think we can
be responsible enough with the bay door to maintain it.

If we decide to move forward, I'll certainly miss the giant piles of
scrap and refuse, but then again I used to sneak off and dig through
dumpsters as a kid so it's likely not everyone is as fond of it as I
am, hehe. I definitely think that with a safer, cleaner space in a
safer, more accessible neighborhood we'll see more activity and
membership interest. It's a side effect of several factors in the pro
category, but should absolutely be taken into account. Our current
place scares people. :-/

- Nick

[Ben Eishen]

I agree 100% with Thomas.

I believe a large clean, safe, well lit office space to commune and
innovate would do wonders for the group. It would become more of a
place to hang out. Our current house seems very segmented to me. When
we have a mass of people at the house, it get congested. When there is
only a couple of people there they tend to work in separate rooms
making socializing a pain.

On May 16, 1:29 pm, Dan Hess <dan9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do have a few things I can add in to these points myself that are just
> further pieces for us to consider.
>

>    - 2 year contract of lease/rent v.s. Month to Month ( wouldn't be able
>    to move if we our grew the space )
>

> Considering month to month is only advantageous in deciding not to move at
> all.  And that is only applicable as well I would say if we don't look to
> even renegotiate anything.
>
> We may not even have to break the lease if it does come down to out growing
> the space.  Almost all landlords would much rather keep a tenant especially
> if they are paying, than they would lose them at the end of their lease.
>  So unless he's the extremely weird exception to the generalization, he has
> multiple properties, and I am sure would be willing for us to sign another
> lease on a bigger property.  If I were a betting kind of person, I would be
> willing to bet he likes having money as opposed to not.
>

>    - In Bartlett ( over active police, code enforcement, and other branch

>    of goverment )
>
> Overactive police is only a con if you're doing something you're not
> supposed to.  Granted this group has a greater propensity for it, but short
> of starting fires inside I don't see a lot that we are going to do to
> really stir up more trouble than benefit we would get from having police
> around.
>

>    - all areas has H&AC ( Open the roll up door and heat or cooling is

>    gone. )
>
> I do agree that it is a going point to make about the heating and air going
> out the door as soon as we open the garage door.  I think that it is also
> equally relevant to note that in our current situation, whether you have
> the door open, closed, cracked, or sideways, we have no awesome heating or
> air in the current shop.  So even if we do have to deal with attempts to
> warm or cool the greater Bartlett area, that is a better problem to deal
> with than having none.
>

>    - Zoned light industrial v.s. Industrial (all repairs, welding, and

[Danny Chamberlin]

+1 to this. Over the years when looking at other hackerspaces - either in person or via video, the most inviting have been open, as it fosters more collaboration. As it is, it's hard to engage people working in the electronic room with those working in the front or computer room.

Danny

[Mark Turnage]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Joe Ferguson <hal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Code enforcement shouldn't be an issue since we've already been cleared via
> city planning.

> Anywhere we went we'd have to sign AT LEAST another 1 year lease. So 2 years
> for the price break is worthwhile.
> If we get to a point where we outgrow this space before the 2 years, we
> should have a lot more income to use to break the lease.

Chiming in with my $ 0.02: zoning and the lease length have been my
two major concerns.The former seems mostly taken care of, and I think
Joe and Dan make excellent points about the latter.

The big benefit IMO will be the greater interest in Membership. I have
been specifically told by at least three people in the last six months
that they would join if the space was closer to
Cordova/Bartlett/Germantown. That's not to mention the number of
people who interest was caught by the group but balked at the idea of
going to the current space.

The comments about appealing to families are important as well: there
were a number of times where I would have happily made meetings at the
space, but I had my younger kids with me. There's no way I'd want to
let them loose in the yard or have them getting underfoot while other
members would be working. With the space at the new location, I
wouldn't blink at it: grab a snack from a nearby food place, sit them
down at a table or on a couch and let them watch a movie or play a
game on a laptop and still be able to keep an eye on them while doing
something else.
--
Mark Turnage

[Dan Hess]

That adds an additional point to the notion of safety of the area the space is in.  It isn't just that the space is in a safe area, because I could argue that for the terribad notion of Orange Mound, the space currently is safer than the surrounding area.  At the location in Bartlett, not only would the space be in a safer area, but things around the space would be safer as well.  I doubt anyone would think twice about going to the Kroger, $2 Theater, McDonalds, Applebees, Chinese Takeout, TCBY, YoLo, Wendy's, BBQ Joint, Walgreens, Pizza Hut, EasyWay, Gas Stations, or bank within a mile or two from the space.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[claudio donndelinger]

I'm highly looking forward to the possibility of being so close to so many different things. Currently it's somewhat of an event bringing myself and my little one to the space. To be able to dip over in just a few minutes and still be close to so many different things is outstanding. I can see myself no longer having to decide whether to go to the space or hang out with my little one with the promise of not one but 2 yogurt shops in close proximity.

CD

[Matthew Roberson]

To give my contribution: 

I just wanted to point out that I've been attending the Midsouth Makers meetings on and off since July of 2010 and have been a member since January of 2011. I haven't been to any meetings or events since something like September  2011.  Why? The space is just too small and crowded, and the current location is just too far out of the way (and in too much of an unsafe area) for me to even want to go there. I really enjoy going to the meetings and hanging out with everybody, but honestly, if there are just a handful of people there it's hard to find a table to work at, much less a decent chair to sit in.  

I think that our own space in a far safer area is much more preferable than a shared space in a much less safer area, even if it is a bit smaller; I think this is epecially true if the new space is more open and thus more supportive of our maker community (members) and more welcoming to the greater community (potential members and other new people).

My support is for the move to the Bartlett space because I'd like to start attending meetings/events again and start hanging out at the space on weekends and I'd like it to not be a giant pain in the ass to do so.

Matt

[gatesofmemphis]

What's the earliest we can get in?

[MemphisArtGuy]

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:58:20 PM UTC-5, Joe wrote:

Dru,

I'd agree with most of your pros and cons with the following comments:

• Code enforcement shouldn't be an issue since we've already been cleared via city planning.

 Code enforcement can be a on going issue, well have to very careful on anything external to the space. as well as Handicap access. We can not go over this enough.

 

• It will be less overall space. But it will be OUR space to do with what we want.

See pro #1 

 

 

• Landlord can't come in and dump stuff on top of us whenever he wants

 See pro #1

 

 

• Anywhere we went we'd have to sign AT LEAST another 1 year lease. So 2 years for the price break is worthwhile.

matter of opion I guess..... going smaller for longer sounds dangerous,

 

• If we get to a point where we outgrow this space before the 2 years, we should have a lot more income to use to break the lease.

How much to break lease?  

 

I'm not sure about a smoking area. I assume out back would be fine. I haven't' seen anything that would suggest otherwise.

 

Would like to solidify the smoking area.

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:58:20 PM UTC-5, Joe wrote:

Dru,

I'd agree with most of your pros and cons with the following comments:

• Code enforcement shouldn't be an issue since we've already been cleared via city planning.
• It will be less overall space. But it will be OUR space to do with what we want.
• Landlord can't come in and dump stuff on top of us whenever he wants
• Anywhere we went we'd have to sign AT LEAST another 1 year lease. So 2 years for the price break is worthwhile.
• If we get to a point where we outgrow this space before the 2 years, we should have a lot more income to use to break the lease.

I'm not sure about a smoking area. I assume out back would be fine. I haven't' seen anything that would suggest otherwise.

 

 

Once again I'm just trying to look at this objectively, we kinda rushed in to where we are at now and don't want to make the same mistake twice. 

[Joe Ferguson]

Dru: I don't know how much more we can solidify smoking other than "Not Inside the building".

Roy: Are you asking waht is the earliest we could go visit again, or move in?

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:18 PM, gatesofmemphis <gatesof...@gmail.com> wrote:

What's the earliest we can get in?

[gatesofmemphis]

Move the space. Has the previous tenant vacated?

[MemphisArtGuy]

Bartlett Site (pending HS2?)

Pro:

shares Space (no land lord dropping off random items )

Bigger common space ( could aid in building community )
all areas has H&AC ( good for shares areas )
In Bartlett (safer than current location )
Full Bath ( no need for safety shower, people can be clean )
Public area and between two businesses  ( Traffic, high visability )

Safety is much improved ( Yes its listed twice)

Better for Familes/ Safer for children

Closer to people who said they would join if it was Closer to Bartlett, Germanton, and Cordova

Can break Lease, with fee

Better location (Location, Location, Location)

No more Land lord scrape to use…

safer work enviorments

roof not leaking

working external lights

Better place to "Hang Out"

More inviting space

tons of Local business that are safe to visit

Radio Shack with in walking distance

Cons:

Bigger common space ( fumes, light, noise will be shared by all )

Cost of transfering Services.

Can only be view during business hours of 8 - 5 M-F. ( members would have

to take off work to view )

rent goes up $50 in price

2 year contract of lease/rent v.s. Month to Month ( wouldn't be able to

move if we our grew the space )

all areas has H&AC ( Open the roll up door and heat or cooling is gone. )

In Bartlett ( over active police, code enforcement, and other branch of

goverment )

Public area and between two businesses  ( No privaticy, have to be more

causous with neihbors and thier businesses and parking )

Less over all space and limited 2 rooms v.s. 7 smaller rooms we currently

have.

Zoned light industrial v.s. Industrial

all repairs, welding, and other activites would be inside.

smoking behind the building

Can break Lease, with fee

Furnaces/forges will be out of the question at Hack Space. (fire hazard)

Cost of moving every thing

No more Land lord scrape to use…

 

 

Updated with responses and its getting pretty close.....  

[Joe Ferguson]

Is there currently anything preventing us holding a member vote on whether or not to give our 30 days notice to the current landlord and sign the lease in Bartlett?

If not, I'll have a vote out to the members later this evening.

[Dan Hess]

Not to derail Joe's efforts since in that direction I see nothing worth stopping a vote over, but I see something else that is already spreading that is indeed not true.

The comment about breaking the lease with a fee.  That was something that we finagled at some cost with Glenn for our current location that is now no longer relevant with us being month to month.  The Bartlett location would not have this option.  It is also useful to note that this kind of thing, while common on a lot of residential properties, is almost unheard of on any other rental property.  We would have to be extremely lucky, or a friend of a friend kind of setup to get such a thing again.

This landlord has several properties, including one that we inquired about over on Broad St that was way out of our price range right now.  What we could most definitely confirm with the landlord, though I've not seen any that would oppose this, is whether or not we could resign a lease on another one of his bigger properties to upsize if needed.

Another thing I note is that you mention needing to be more cautious with parking as a result of neighboring businesses?  We currently have businesses as neighbors.  Consideration for parking is something we already have to take into consideration.  Much like it is now, both locations have 8 to 5 businesses near by.  Is it really a concern of ours that there is less parking during those times?  While the aim is for people to be there more frequently, most of us have jobs that we are at from 8 to 5.  There are fewer parking spots during those times, but there are also fewer of us that would be there during that time.  Neither a pro nor a con to me in terms of parking.

I also would think that if you are going to list having businesses as neighbors as a con (separate of parking) then it should equally be listed as a pro.  Contingent upon them being good neighbors, having good neighbors is always a plus.  Having eyes on the place during the day is an extremely desirable thing.

If there is a concern for the forge or furnace raised, then we should also raise concerns for using a grill.  They are all equally a fire hazard, yet a homemade grill would be allowed and the forge/furnace not?  They're only as much of a fire hazard as the lack of caution applied.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[MemphisArtGuy]

is trash included, or will we have to seek a contract for that as well?

Note cans have to be pulled in before 6pm the day of trash pickup

[Joe Ferguson]

Trash is included with the lease. We share a dumpster with our neighbors.

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:25 PM, MemphisArtGuy <memphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

is trash included, or will we have to seek a contract for that as well?

Note cans have to be pulled in before 6pm the day of trash pickup

[Daniel Hess]

There is a dumpster that is paid for and taken care of by the landlord.

Daniel
Sent from my iPhone

[Mark Turnage]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Dan Hess <dan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not to derail Joe's efforts since in that direction I see nothing worth
> stopping a vote over, but I see something else that is already spreading
> that is indeed not true.

It might be a good idea to hold off on a voice until at least more
people get to talk with the board at the Friday night meeting.

--
Mark Turnage

[Joe Ferguson]

I think to make sure everyone has enough time, I'm going to send out a vote tonight with a deadline of midnight Sunday, that way we can tell the respective landlords Monday morning. If you're holding concerns until you can discuss with the board on Friday, that gives you 48 hours to vote after the Friday meeting.

[Danny Chamberlin]

If we give 30 days say Monday, will that be enough time for our new landlord to get the current tenants out and the space cleaned out?

Danny

[Joe Ferguson]

That's going to be a question for the landlord. 

[Daniel Soskel]

To echo what a few others have said, I would even show up more if it
were out in Bartlett. It is closer to me (still a little drive, but
not much) and in an area I feel much safer in. The safety is a major
selling point for me, wherever a move is made. I always get a little
nervous going out to our current space. I have some friends that I
could probably drag into the organization were it closer, as well.

On May 16, 8:55 pm, Mark Turnage <markturn...@gmail.com> wrote:

[gatesofmemphis]

It's not a con (and probably is a pro) but we will probably lose our ability to keep anything but freely shared tools and a small amount of member stuff.  In the present space, we can always find a place to stuff things, if just outside with a tarp on it.  

[gatesofmemphis]

What does the landlord think will be the earliest we can get in?

[Dan Hess]

The last date on the lease revisions was June 1st, but we informed him of the steps we were taking before we could consider moving and that we would be highly unlikely to make that date.

He responded back letting us know they were clearing out the current tenant and that the date wasn't an issue we would sign it when we signed it and could move in then.  As of right now, we have not sent Glenn a 30 days notice (as per our current lease) since we are still deciding.  We have not talked with the new landlord about possibly prorating.  So as is, I would assume July 1st would be the soonest we could sign the lease and start occupancy.  Just depends on how it all falls out.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[MemphisArtGuy]

Any word from the Crosstown people, think its Eric right? Is he still too high?

[Dan Hess]

Disclaimer: Long winded response.  Get a snack, pull up a chair, take off your jacket and stay a while.

I don't know whether Eric is or how much he is involved in the Crosstown prospect, as far as I knew it was a man named Todd Richardson.  That location, while better for us than our current space, has woes to it that are less desirable over all from the Bartlett location, and thus why we pursued further efforts on the latter.

One of the locations proposed in that area did not have a basement, was higher rent than we are paying now and less space than the Bartlett location or current space.  Another one did have a basement that would make it equal to the Bartlett prospect, but lacks a garage door, has gigantic glass windows in the front, would be $817/mo, and equally just as far away from all of our current members with the exception of myself.

Let me further elaborate on why I mentioned the points I did above in hopes they can make more sense.  Some of these over lap too, and sorry for that.

• no closer to most members
  It provides no improvement or little difference to almost all of our current members with the exception of myself.  While this does provide a better situation for potential members, it is a delicate balance that we must adhere to so as to improve activity of our current members to entice new members to join.  One means, and an important one I would say, is to logistically reduce the barrier or going to the space.  For myself it would be great, but I don't know that it would be any less troublesome for others.
  
  
• gigantic glass windows
  I live literally 2 and a half blocks away from Vini and this proposed location, and I walk right by it a good deal.  This provides me a little insight into the street and it's inner workings than most.  The street requires a certain finesse to reside on it.  There is an excessive amount of foot traffic from individuals that do not live immediately next door the area.  So this is lots of eyes peering at lots of goodies that we have. Plenty of things go missing in our neighborhood all the time as a result of this.  Houses get broken into, things just go missing, it's not ideal for holding on to nice things.  The closer you get to Cleveland St right there in front of Sears Tower, the worse it gets.  Now don't get me wrong, I would consider it a very safe place to be over all as far as when you're present, I would and have gone walking right by that place at 3 AM in the morning with not a shred of concern.  It is the times when we're not there that is the most concerning.  There are things we can do to mitigate that, but even those things come at a cost that we can't afford or don't want to contend with.
  
  
• basement counted to make it equal space
  Without the basement it was approximately 1400 sqft that we would be getting, the basement would not have been included in the space.  While this would be very cool at all, it's a basement it has its ups and downs.
  
  
• lack of garage door
  This one to me is crucial, despite not always being able to pull a car into it we use the shop the most.  So we could setup a shop there, but I believe and think others would agree that the shop's utility to be cut in half with lack of adequate means of getting stuff into it.  If we did the shop up top for more ease, then we have to worry about putting some not so fancy, but very desirable things on display to steal.  If we put the shop down low, it creates an ample display of festivities to get equipment, materials, and finished results in and out.  We would over all be immediately hindered considerably more than we already are these sort of things.

So while I would love to be able to walk to and from the space in a matter of minutes, the board did not see any outstanding benefit to the group as a whole by going there.  It would be beneficial from where we are, but we do not foresee it being more beneficial than the Bartlett location.  We ventured into the prospect of more than just the location in Bartlett, but it just turned out to be the better deal of all that we could find.  As evident by the logistics of even just bringing the single potential space to light within the group, it would likely be the death of the board members and accused loved ones to do any more than that.

Thanks,

Daniel H.

Google Voice:  (901) 214-5326

- Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.

[gatesofmemphis]

Unless there ends up being some luddite poltergeist haunting it, the Bartlett space is hard to beat.  

[Mark Turnage]

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:42 AM, gatesofmemphis
<gatesof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unless there ends up being some luddite poltergeist haunting it, the
> Bartlett space is hard to beat.

And if there is...

http://www.gbfans.com/equipment/ghost-trap/
--
Mark Turnage

[Fredric Ghettie]

I hope somewhere else does beat it. Bartlett is 45 minutes away from where I am in Hernando according to Google maps.

[Sonny Mounicou]

I agree.  And in the end we all have to realize the space is what we make of it.  In the old space we created a darkroom, built an electronics area, and did a few other things to make the space better.  In this new space, we'll be starting with a blank slate.  To the extent that we want to use it for electronics, gaming, metal work, or anything else, we need to configure it as such.  Our old space had significant limitations on the changes we could make.  This new one presents us with a lot of options that were not even remotely possible before.  We need to think about what we want to be doing and what sort of environment suits that activity.

And I want to add that this should be an exciting event.  When we initially found the Freemont Rd space, we had low membership and we met at the University of Memphis campus.  We were clamoring for a space that didn't break the budget, but gave us a place to start getting organized.  The Freemont Rd space gave us a place to get started, and helped our membership grow.  But when we set out, we knew that it would not be a permanent place for us to be.  As our membership continues to evolve, our interests will carry us down a variety of paths that we can not imagine standing here today.  And that might mean that we need another new space in the future when our lease is up.  While change can be difficult to embrace, this is all part of the journey.  We should be happy that our membership has grown to a point where we are on more stable footing.  And we should be excited that this new space presents us with plenty of new opportunities for our members to create!  This change comes with a responsibility though.  We are only going to get out of it what we put into it.  If there are things you want to be able to do, let the board know.  If you have an vision of what you want to be able to do, please share it.  If you have the initiative, lead an effort (with the boards support) to make it real.  In the end, this is our hackerspace and it will only be what we make of it. <end rant> :)

[claudio donndelinger]

Well said!

CD