Bulleted lists, Numbered lists and Outlined lists - XP problems
Steve Boatman
selected a list would:
1 - set bullets to an outline list and automatically insert my preferred bullet
style when I indented. (to level 4)
2 - set numbers where the sequence began at 1. Formatting would be maintained
regardless of indentation.
3 - set numbers to continue the previous list numbering regardless of the text
being selected was previously unformatted or if it had been formatted with a
different number format or bullet. It would be maintained regardless of
indentation.
4 - for selected lines,would turn off any bullet, outline or number formatting
that I'd applied
These toolbar buttons were available for all new and existing documents.
I just got Office XP about a week ago and my Word '97 macros won't work and I've
spent hours trying to get the bullet and numbering to work as I want with no
progress.
In XP - when I set numbers and indent, they get converted to outline lists and I
can't get the number continuation macro (number 3 above) to pick up the previous
list.
Bullets in the outline keep reverting to the preset bullet styles and the bullet
to text space keeps getting messed up.
Any help in how to controll numbers and bullets in XP would be really appreciated.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
of Tools | AutoCorrect?
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:758101c0f6a1$b01be6c0$a4e62ecf@tkmsftngxa06...
Steve Boatman
I believe so. I've cleared Automatic bulleted lists and Automatic numbered lists
under 'Apply as you type' and all the 'Automatically as you type checkboxes'.
.
Steve Boatman
number continuation problem. It seems that if I have some numbers, e.g. 1,2 and
then some bullets e.g. 5 bullets, when I continue the list the numbers continue
at 6. In other words they continue to count from the 5 bullets and not the 2
numbers.
If I highlight the continued list and go to format bullets and numbering, the
correct number format is highlighted but not the 'continue' radio button.
Selecting the radio button to 'continue numbering' changes the selected number
format from numbers to bullets.
How do I indicate in my macro that I want to continue from the previous 'numbered
list' and not the intervening outlined bulleted list?
..
.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
get what you want. Each hierarchy (bullets versus numbering) must be defined
through Format Style starting from the top-level style and not leaving the
dialog until you finish. Have you read and followed Dave Rado's instructions
on this?
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7a1001c0f6bf$cc791e50$9ee62ecf@tkmsftngxa05...
Steve Boatman
everything work correctly in Word '97 without styles. At this time everything
works except the 'continue numbers' macro picks up the bullet sequence even
though the format is first set to number. Again, it works fine in Word '97.
I have not seen Dave Rado's instructions but will look for them and see if I can
do what I want using styles. In any case, so far Word XP makes formatting
bullets and numbers much more difficult to accomplish than I would think
necessary. It was really pretty straight forward recording and editing the
macros in Word '97. Even there, it would seem like a pretty common thing to want
and shouldn't require messing around with styles or macros.
Thanks for your advise.
...
..
.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
use styles, you should have far less reliance on macros. If you are not
using styles and templates, you will remain a "beginner" in Word no matter
how long you use it. FWIW, here follow Dave's instructions:
1) First decide what styles you want to assign to the outline numbering
scheme. Typically you might use "List Number", "List Number 2" and "List
Number 3". If you've already assigned those, you can create new styles.
2) Define all aspects of the styles you want to use other than the
numbering - i.e. the Paragraph properties (but not including the hanging
indent, which is a Numbering property) and the Font properties.
3) Select Format + Style, select the top level style you want to use for
your outline (e,g. "List Number") and click Modify + Format + Numbering.
Click on the Outline tab, select one of the options in the top half of the
dialog, then click Customise + More.
4) At the top left set the Level to 1, and select the number style to what
you want. Where it says number format, a field will be inserted. Add a
period, bracket, or whatever you want after the field. Set the "number
position", text position, and follow number with as appropriate, and where
it says "link level to style", select the appropriate style (e.g. List
Number).
5) Now WITHOUT CLOSING THE DIALOG, select "level 2" at the top left of the
dialog, set all the other properties for your outline level 2, as
appropriate (number style a,b,c, etc), and link it to the next style you've
chosen for your outline (e.g. "List Number 2").
6) Now WITHOUT CLOSING THE DIALOG, select "level 3" and define that as you
want it, linking it to the appropriate style.
7) Continue as above for additional list levels as needed.
Now and only now, close the dialog.
If you subsequently want to fine-tune your definitions, ALWAYS click on a
list level 1 (in this example "List Number") paragraph, even if you want to
fine tune a lower level only. And always redefine the STYLE. NEVER use the
Format + Bullets and Numbering menu. Then in the Customise dialog, you can
click on whatever level(s) you want to customise.
Unfortunately, in both Word 97 and 2000, even if you follow all these
directions to the letter, you numbering will still change sometimes if the
document is opened on another machine, or pasted into a different document.
The only cure for that is to define your styles using VBA - post back if you
want to try the VBA route.
For your outline bulleting scheme, the built-in styles are List Bullet, List
Bullet 2, List Bullet 3, etc.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7c2001c0f6e1$19c5ecd0$b1e62ecf@tkmsftngxa04...
Steve Boatman
styles. It seems to have solved part of the problem. There is still a problem
that when changing between styles the change is applied to the entire list and
not just the selected items. I will continue to try things to see if I can fix
it.
I agree with you - I'm sure I'll always be a beginner. As a user, Word is only
one of many tools I use and I don't really desire to become an expert. I don't
usually create documents that are all that complex. I just want to easily
construct documents using some pretty basic bulleted and numbered lists.
Thanks again for your help.
Thanks for your advise.
....
...
..
.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
to "Automatically update," which means that any change you make to one
paragraph in the style will be made to the style itself and will apply to
every other paragraph in that style. You can clear that check box in the
Format Style dialog.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:546d01c0f7f8$6326c850$9be62ecf@tkmsftngxa03...
Steve Boatman
My only problem now seems to be how to select the 'numbered list' style I created
(just a simple, single level, Arabic number list 1,2,3..n) and then to optionally
continue the numbering sequence or to reset it to 1 for the selection?
The default when I apply it is to continue the sequence and I don't know how to
reset it. You've convinced me that using macros isn't the way or at least I
don't know how to do it correctly.
Thanks again.
Thanks for your advise.
.....
....
...
..
.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
technique. Let me see if I can rummage around and find that. Nope, I've lost
it. But the idea is that you define a Level 1 style that you use only for
restarting numbering. You make it a normal paragraph with no space before or
after and format the font to white and 1 point so it's invisible and takes
up virtually no space. You then assign Level 2 to the List Number style,
Level 3 to List Number 2, and so on.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7e8b01c0f825$658901d0$a4e62ecf@tkmsftngxa06...
Steve Boatman
Steve Boatman
-----Original Message-----
Steve Boatman
-----Original Message-----
Dave Rado
This is a more detailed version.
Although you can restart numbering using the Restart button on the FB&N
dialog, that is seriously buggy feature and I would strongly recommend
avoiding it entirely. The way I restart numbering (not my idea, BTW), is to
define my list templates as follows:-
List level 1 - uses a dummy style which I call "List Number 0", defined with
no numbering, 1 point, Keep with Next, white font, single line spacing, no
space before or after.
My "List Number" style is at List Level 2 instead of List Level 1, so the
numbering automatically restarts if a List Number para is preceded by a List
Number 0 paragraph.
Another major benefit of this strategy is that if you drag a para from one
list (meaning "list" in human terms rather than Word's) to another, you
won't get "spaghetti numbering.
It helps to create a macro assigned to a button to add/remove the "List
Number 0" paras as required.
It also helps to remove "Format+ Bullets and Numbering" and the Numbering
Button from the menus/toolbars, as both will screw up your lists sooner or
later if used - apply styles instead, which is again simpler if you assign
them to your own buttons.
Here's how to define the styles:
1) Define all aspects of the styles you want to use other than the
numbering - i.e. the Paragraph properties (but not including the hanging
indent, which is a Numbering property) and the Font properties.
2) Select Format + Style, select the top level style in the outline (in this
example, "List Number 0"), and click Modify + Format + Numbering. Click on
the Outline tab, select one of the options in the top half of the dialog,
then click Customise + More.
3) At the top left make sure the Level is set to 1, and delete what's in the
Number Format box, which has the effect of setting the number style to None;
and where it says "link level to style", select the appropriate style (e,g.
"List Number 0").
4) Now WITHOUT CLOSING THE DIALOG, select "level 2" at the top left of the
dialog, set all the other properties for your level 2 style, as appropriate
(number style, set the indent and text position as you want them,
*make sure* "Restart numbering after previous level" is switched on, etc),
and link it to the next style you've chosen for your outline (e.g. "List
Number").
5) Now WITHOUT CLOSING THE DIALOG, select "level 3" and define that as you
want it, (that is, assuming you want a level 3), linking it to the
appropriate style, and making sure "Restart numbering after previous level"
is switched on. Repeat for all levels you want to define.
Now and only now, close the dialog.
If you subsequently want to fine-tune your definitions, ALWAYS click on a
list level 1 (in this example "List Number 0") paragraph, even if you want
to
fine tune a lower level only. And always redefine the STYLE. NEVER use the
Format + Bullets and Numbering menu. Then in the Customise dialog, you can
click on whatever level(s) you want to customise.
Regards
Dave
"Steve Boatman" <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:838a01c0f838$94d9e9a0$9ee62ecf@tkmsftngxa05...
Steve Boatman
this a try tonight. Thanks again.
Steve Boatman
Thanks to you both for you attempts to help me out. I guess as Suzanne says,
I'll have to remain a beginner. I tried to follow Dave's instructions but didn't
get too far. I wasn't clear to me what the end state was:
- What are List Level 1 and 2?
- A single 'style' with two levels called 'List Number' and 'List Number 0' in
the outline?
- Two 'styles' (List Number 0 and List Number) that are linked?
When selecting text I want numbered, would I ever use List Number 0? If I didn't
use it then how would I indicate I wanted to continue numbering or restart
numbering?
When I began the instructions 1-5 was I supposed to have already defined List
Number 0 and List Number style or is that what I was doing at this point?
I didn't understand instruction 2 that said to modify the 'top level style in the
outline', e.g. List Number 0. Was I modifying List Number 0 to add numbering to
outline level 2 after I'd already created with the single point and white text
paragraph and no numbering?
In any case I don't want to take more of your time. You've been patient enough.
I appreciate your help and although I'm giving up for now I may tackle this again
later. I would be remis in not stating how frustrating it is using Word to
perform what I believe should be a simple and straightforward formatting task.
Thanks again.
Suzanne S. Barnhill
not numbered and it is invisible. It is the Level 1 style, but it is just a
dummy style. Your first REAL numbering style is List Number, which is
assigned Level 2. List Number 2 becomes Level 3, and so on. Whenever you
want to restart numbering in the List Number style, you insert a List Number
0 paragraph, then the List Number paragraph. All the lower styles should
also restart after a paragraph in a higher-level style.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Steve Boatman <steve....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:584201c0f866$0a256770$9be62ecf@tkmsftngxa03...
Dave Rado
Numbering + Restart Numbering. It's buggy but better than nothing! <g>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- What are List Level 1 and 2?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the Customize dialog top left you have a list of list levels. All outline
numbering schemes consists of list levels, numbered 1, 2, etc up to a
maximum of 9 (although you would normally only make use of list levels 1-4
at most).. You can and should assign each list level in your outline to a
style. In the example I gave, I suggested assigning list level 1 of your
outline to the style "List Number 0" and list level 2 of your outline to the
style "List Number". The style "List Number 0" exists purely to restart
numbering.
You can then apply the "List Number 0" style to a dummy paragraph when you
want numbering to restart, and delete the dummy paragraphs if you change
your mind. This is fiddly to do manually (the dummy paragraphs being 1 point
and invisible) so it helps if you write a macro to add and remove the dummy
paragraphs. It's also helps if the dummy "List Number 0" paragraphs contain
some text like "Numbering restart", to differentiate them from other blank
paragraphs.
~~~~~~~~
- A single 'style' with two levels called 'List Number' and 'List Number 0'
in
the outline?
~~~~~~~~
No
~~~~~~~~
- Two 'styles' (List Number 0 and List Number) that are linked?
~~~~~~~~
No, as discussed above, two levels of your outline, each liked to a
different style.(the style they are linked to being List Number 0 and List
Number respectively).
~~~~~~~~
When selecting text I want numbered, would I ever use List Number 0?
~~~~~~~~
*If* you want to restart numbering, insert a dummy para above the list and
apply the List Number 0 style to the dummy para. As mentioned previously,
this is much easier to do with a macro assigned to a toolbar button and/or
keyboard shortcut.
~~~~~~~~
When I began the instructions 1-5 was I supposed to have already defined
List
Number 0 and List Number style or is that what I was doing at this point?
~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure I understand the question but see also Suzanne's reply.
~~~~~~~~
I didn't understand instruction 2 that said to modify the 'top level style
in the
outline', e.g. List Number 0. Was I modifying List Number 0 to add
numbering to
outline level 2 after I'd already created with the single point and white
text
paragraph and no numbering?
~~~~~~~~
The style to be linked to level 1 in your outline is List Number 0. (The
style to be linked to level 2 in your outline is List Number). When defining
numbering you should always start by clicking in a level 1 paragraph (which
in this case means a paragraph with the List Number 0 applied to it), and
then selecting Format + Style + Modify + Format + Numbering + Outline tab +
Customize + More; and then defining all the list levels that you want to
define in one fell swoop without quitting the Customize dialog until you're
finished, linking each list level to the appropriate style.
So the styles are only actually linked to each other tangentially, in the
sense that the levels of the outline (which in Word terminology is called a
list template) are directly linked, and each level is linked to a style.
Hope that helps
Regards
Dave
Cindy Meister -WordMVP-
While Word 2002's list numbering is still basically the same as in
Word97, it is managed a bit differently.
I highly recommend you spend some time familiarizing yourself with
the new LIST styles. These are much more reliable to work with than
anything in Word97 or 2000, and they could well make a couple of
your macros obsolete (create the List styles in your templates), or
you may at least want to recreate them based on the new
functionality.
You should also look at the new TAB in the Format/Bullets and
Numbering dialog box about restarting numbering.
Hi Steve,
> when I set numbers and indent, they get converted to outline lists
>
Since Word2000, ALL lists are outline-type; there is no "numbered"
list that is not of outline type (they may simply have one level,
but they are outline type). New also in 2000 (and this is not a
typo): the default when numbering is applied to text is to INDENT
it.
Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister
http://www.mvps.org/word
http://go.compuserve.com/MSOfficeForum
This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow
question or reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)
Steve Boatman
I work in two environments - Office '97 and Office XP.
Word '97
I have pretty much all the control over numbering I want
in Word '97 using styles and some simple macros to envoke
them. I still have the occasional problem when changing a
list that had first been formatted with my outlined
bullets style to a new numbered list. It works if I
unformat the bullets first and then reformat with
numbers. If I don't go through two steps it seems to lose
all my style definitions.
Word XP
I still can't seem to get control over nubmering with Word
XP. From your post I guess XP no longer supports simple
numbered lists. I think that's a big mistake by MS.
When I format a numbered list using (what I thought was)
my single level number format it automacially changes it
to an outlined number list style. This messes me up when
I tab. I wish I could keep the style and format I'd
selected.
I may be able to get around this by creating a multi level
style where every level is the same format and then
somehow see if I can keep them in sequence as I tab. I'll
try that this weekend.
As you suggested I looked at the new TAB in numbering and
bullet formatting. I don't understand what it does and
how it might help me create two macros that will either
restart a numbered list or continue the previous numbered
list. In fact my numbered list style is not on the list
of styles it displays. I'll play around some more and see
if I can determine what this TAB does.
I'll try for a while longer but may end up reverting back
to Word '97 where I have seem to have more control.
I tried Dave's suggestions in this newsgroup and was
finally able to make it work but don't really like the
idea of creating dummy paragraphs and using a multi level
list when I only want a simple single level list. My
macro set up in Word '97 seems a lot simpler to me.
From searching this newsgroup and the web it seems like
numbering has been and continues to be a real weakness in
Word.
Thank you again for any suggestions you may have.
>.
>
Dave Rado
| I tried Dave's suggestions in this newsgroup and was
| finally able to make it work but don't really like the
| idea of creating dummy paragraphs and using a multi level
| list when I only want a simple single level list.
Then just use the Restart button under Formats Bullets and Numbering,
instead.
| My
| macro set up in Word '97 seems a lot simpler to me.
Apllying styles is far more stable than applying manually formatted
numbering, and you can just use the restart button on the FB&N toolbar to
restart numbering if you don't like the dummy para method.
But it's easy to write a macro assigned to a "toggle restart" button on your
toolbar that adds or removes the dummy paras when you click on the button,
and the benefit is greatly increased stability versus using manual
formatting, plus no spagghetti numbering when you copy and paste items
between lists.
Regards
Dave
Steve Boatman
I will try your technique again this weekend. I thought I
had it working but don't think I had done it correctly.
The macros I use in Word '97 do use styles. I got that
far from Suzanne's suggestions and agree it works better.
I now have a macro that applies my basic 'numbered_list'
style, one that resets it back to 'normal' style and then
applies 'numbered_list' with continued numbering from the
previous list. Another macro applies
my 'outlined_bullets' style and a final macro that only
applies the 'normal' style and turns any other formatting
off.
None of this seems to work in XP.
Thanks again for your help.
>-----Original Message-----
>.
>
Cindy Meister -WordMVP-
> When I format a numbered list using (what I thought was)
> my single level number format it automacially changes it
> to an outlined number list style. This messes me up when
> I tab. I wish I could keep the style and format I'd
> selected.
>
Ah. Try deactivating Tools/Options/Edit/Tab and Backspace
set indents. If you use this for your outline numbering, you
might look at Shift+Alt+Left / Right arrows, instead, for
setting outline levels.
> As you suggested I looked at the new TAB in numbering and
> bullet formatting. I don't understand what it does and
> how it might help me create two macros that will either
> restart a numbered list or continue the previous numbered
> list. In fact my numbered list style is not on the list
> of styles it displays. I'll play around some more and see
> if I can determine what this TAB does.
>
Is your "numbered list style" a style brought over from
Word97, or did you first CREATE a NEW LIST type of style
(not a normal style with numbering, but a style specific for
applying numbering - this is totally new)? You have to do
this, first, to see anything in the dialog box tab.
> I'll try for a while longer but may end up reverting back
> to Word '97 where I have seem to have more control.
>
You actually have a lot MORE control in Word2002, once you
figure out how things work. John McGhie says the same <g>
Steve Boatman
I'll try these ideas this weekend. Thank you.
>
Steve Boatman
OK - I think I'm pretty much where I want to be on this.
I have two toolbar buttons in Word '97 to start and
continue the numbering style as well as buttons for
starting the hierarchial bulleted list style and a final
one for returning to the normal style.
For XP I have a single button that begins my numbered list
style. I can't seem to get a toolbar button that will
continue numbering but using the start numbering button I
can then right-click in the list and select continue
numbering (the right click function doesn't seem to be
available in Word '97). This works although I would
prefer a toolbar button. Recording the keystrokes to set
the continue numbering for the style option doesn't record
the 'continue' piece - it just records the set numbering
style action. Anyway, the right-click method works OK.
Thank you for your help and to the others that gave me
ideas to try as well.
>.
>
Cindy Meister -WordMVP-
> I can't seem to get a toolbar button that will
> continue numbering but using the start numbering button I
> can then right-click in the list and select continue
> numbering (the right click function doesn't seem to be
> available in Word '97). This works although I would
> prefer a toolbar button.
>
Try assigning this macro to a button. Be sure to change the
style name ("Num") to the name of your list style
Sub ApplyNum()
Selection.Style = ActiveDocument.Styles("Num")
Dim rng As Word.Range
Set rng = Selection.Range
rng.ListFormat.ApplyListTemplate _
ListTemplate:=rng.ListFormat.ListTemplate, _
ContinuePreviousList:=True, _
ApplyTo:=wdListApplyToWholeList
End Sub
Steve Boatman
Thank you again. This macro worked in both Word '97 and
XP, however in XP if I had previously defined the list
with a bulleted list style, it changed all paragraphs in
the list to numbers, not just those selected. I was able
to insert a "Selection.Style = ActiveDocument.Styles
("Normal")" line at the start of the macro and then it
worked fine.
This macro is probably what I was looking for when I began
this thread and does just what I was trying to accomplish.
Thanks again very much.
>.
>
Cindy Meister -WordMVP-
> This macro is probably what I was looking for when I began
> this thread and does just what I was trying to accomplish.
>
Glad we finally got everything working the way you needed :-)
Cindy
Jennifer Wilson
much I love the mvps.org/word site - it is fantastic!
My question is this:
You suggested that the List Number 0 paragraphs have some dummy text to
differentiate from regular paragraph marks - what do you recommend as a good
way to automate text inside List Number 0 paragraphs?
Thanks so much!
Jennifer
"Dave Rado" <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:emEON0K#AHA.1492@tkmsftngp03...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
series; since you can put any text you want to before the number (or even
without a number), you could use "Dummy" as the text in the same way that
you would include "Chapter" or "Section" with some numbering styles.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Jennifer Wilson <jennife...@cdilearn.com> wrote in message
news:eNr657TEBHA.1248@tkmsftngp07...
Jennifer Wilson
Jennifer
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:e3b2kjUEBHA.2012@tkmsftngp05...
Dave Rado
I use actual text. Otherwise my "clean up doument" macros that remove all
blank paragraphs would remove those "restart numbering" paragraphs as well.
I just use te word "Restart". At it's simplest you could use a macro like:
Dim MyRange As Range
Set MyRange = Selection.Paragraphs(1).Range
MyRange.Collapse wdCollapseStart
MyRange.InsertBefore "Restart" & vbCr
MyRange.Style = "List Number 0"
I say "at its simplest" because if you want to do it properly, you might
want to check that the current para is actually numbered, that the preceding
para isn't already a restart para etc. But as a rough and ready solution the
above works fine.
Regards
Dave
"Jennifer Wilson" <jennife...@cdilearn.com> wrote in message
news:#ZpwlEVEBHA.1128@tkmsftngp04...
Jennifer Wilson
Jennifer
"Dave Rado" <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:u0jWfghEBHA.1856@tkmsftngp05...