> On Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:56 PM JeremyFlower wrote:
> Hi folks.
> Have just gone through painful process of doing system restore, and was
> hoping to use System Tool Backup to create ASR.
> Hit the snag where I have a modern pc that uses USB Mass Storage device
> instead of old fashioned floppy.
> As I understand it, the floppy is used to hold the two files in
> C:\WINDOWS\repair, Ie:
> asr.sif
> asrpnp.sif.
> As far as I can make out from Googling this contains information for
> diskpart to reformat Hard Drive volume.
> By copying these two files off to USB, can my PC read this device when I
> boot from XP install CD. (or use ones on hard drive).
> I've been unable to ascertain safely how to make USB Mass Storage device a
> bootable device. (PC recognizes USB when I boot from Dell utility disk,
> because of modern BIOS, but says Invalid or damaged bootable partition when I
> make USB Mass Storage Device primary boot device from BIOS).
> I've seen commands for diskpart involving
> clean
> create par
> etc
> But I think clean works for active 'disk' rather than 'volume' and would
> hate to wipe out HD instead of USB!
> (My interpretation of diskpart command for clean is that it works on disk
> not volume)
> When I use list disk, I only see
> disk 0 (The HDD)
> When I use list volume, I  see
> C (Then HDD vol 1)
> D (DVD-ROM Vol 0)
> E (Removable Vol 2)
> I guess really I don't care really if USB is not bootable, as long as when I
> insert XP install disk and it gives option to do ASR, that it will find files
> on USB (or HD) in repair folder, but would be intrigued to see if bootable
> USB Mass Storage Device is possible.

> So can someone tell me, will ASR prompt for non existent floppy during
> recovery or is it smart enough to look on HD or USB Mass Storage?
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:27 PM Jim wrote:
>> "Jeremy Flowers" <JeremyFlow...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:CE48BB17-C8CC-4A7E-AA16-1BAE916C768E@microsoft.com...
>> The only time that I sused ASR, I had a bought a USB Floppy which the
>> program recognized.
>> Not only must you have a floppy, but you must use the XP distribution CD to
>> perform the recovery.
>> Acronis is so much better.
>> Jim
>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 9:14 AM JeremyFlower wrote:
>>> Jim wrote:
>>> "The only time that I used ASR, I had a bought a USB Floppy which the
>>> program recognized. Not only must you have a floppy, but you must use the XP
>>> distribution CD to  perform the recovery. Acronis is so much better".

>>> I am still confused by ASR as a whole. If my hard drive has single partition
>>> an backup is on this partitition, even if I somehow get ASR to recognize
>>> asr.sif  asrpnp.sif from floppy drive I have to purchase (how daft is this!),
>>> won't ASR use these files to re-partition/format drive and in process wipe
>>> out my backup file, thus shooting myself in the foot!

>>> It makes me think I need to partition hard drive and maintain backup/sif
>>> files on seperate partition. Then somehow I need to get ASR to magically
>>> recognize second partition to do restore. I guess I could use something like
>>> Partition Magic to save going through manual re-install yet again...

>>> But I've seen comparison for Norton Ghost vs Acronis True Image here:
>>> http://www.techsupportalert.com/drive-imaging-reviews.htm
>>> (admittedly a bit dated, but makes me tink Acronis is better choice)

>>> Also seen mixed reviews Amazon customers have said about Acronis, and feel
>>> reluctant to make purchase:
>>> See:
>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Acronis-True-Image-11-PC/dp/customer-reviews/...
>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 11:03 AM Jim wrote:
>>>> "Jeremy Flowers" <JeremyFlow...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:84D6A01B-53D9-4BDF-AC30-67AF43C346C3@microsoft.com...
>>>> I can't see how you could backup a partition to a file which lies in the
>>>> partition that you are saving to an archive.  Almost any backup program
>>>> would eventually get into an endless loop.

>>>> There is nothing magical about getting Ntbackup to recognize a second
>>>> partition, provided that you have assigned a drive letter to the partition.
>>>> If you don't or can't assign a drive letter, then you cannot use Ntbackup.

>>>> Sorry, I can't comment on customer reports on Amazon.  Acronis worked for me
>>>> when nothing else would.  In fact, if you were using Acronis or Ghost, we
>>>> would not be having this conversation because you would have long ago
>>>> restored your disk.

>>>> Jim
>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 11:11 AM JeremyFlower wrote:
>>>>> Supported Floppy drives that XP ASR works with:
>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196
>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 12:54 PM Jim wrote:
>>>>>> "Jeremy Flowers" <JeremyFlow...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:15AE0BD9-F492-40A8-8721-0DC21762B33A@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> Perhaps so.  The KB actually discusses which USB CD drives that the XP
>>>>>> installation CD will recognize for the purpose of downloading SATA drivers.
>>>>>> While the installation CD will probably recognize these drives during a
>>>>>> repair process, only MS knows for certain.  At least, they have access to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> source code.

>>>>>> The documented way to restore an ntbackup is through an option of the XP
>>>>>> installation.  This procedure requires you to have an installation CD.

>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 1:34 PM JeremyFlower wrote:
>>>>>>> "Jim" wrote:
>>>>>>> 1) I can't see how you could backup a partition to a file which lies in the
>>>>>>> partition that you are saving to an archive.  Almost any backup program would
>>>>>>> eventually get into an endless loop.
>>>>>>> 2) There is nothing magical about getting Ntbackup to recognize a second
>>>>>>> partition, provided that you have assigned a drive letter to the partition.  
>>>>>>> If you don't or can't assign a drive letter, then you cannot use Ntbackup.
>>>>>>> 3) In fact, if you were using Acronis or Ghost, we would not be having this
>>>>>>> conversation because you would have long ago restored your disk.

>>>>>>> My problem is understanding how ASR works.
>>>>>>> On point 3) I am not convinced of either Ghost or Acronis. May I clarify, I
>>>>>>> have already manually restored the system in an incremental fashion. The
>>>>>>> whole system restore came about in the first place because of Java EE SDK not
>>>>>>> uninstalling cleanly and preventing me from being able to install newer
>>>>>>> version. It's a Glassfish thing. See:
>>>>>>> http://forums.java.net/jive/message.jspa?messageID=261982
>>>>>>> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=38121&tstart=15

>>>>>>> On point 1) If you've ever done a backup using XP's own backup, it allows
>>>>>>> you to save the backup file back to your C: drive when you do an ASR backup.
>>>>>>> It's clever enough not to include the backup file itself in the backup!

>>>>>>> It's point 2) I am most interested. In retrospect I think I should have
>>>>>>> partitioned drive, but having never done ASR before, am learning as I go
>>>>>>> along.
>>>>>>> Before I go ahead and re-install Java, I want to make sure I've got my
>>>>>>> system saved so I can restore more easily if Glassfish goes awry again.
>>>>>>> When you insert XP Install disk it gives you the option to go to ASR via an
>>>>>>> F key.
>>>>>>> I take it it's going to need a Microsoft XP compatible USB floppy to begin
>>>>>>> with?:
>>>>>>> I echo John Mahoney's thoughts "Sorry Microsoft but I have a hard time
>>>>>>> finding USB drive's by the Plug and Play ID #!" at:
>>>>>>> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=47971
>>>>>>> *  (with respect to earlier post Supported Floppy drives that XP ASR works
>>>>>>> with:)
>>>>>>> *  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196
>>>>>>> (Or will the XP Install CD be clever enough to find sif files/backups
>>>>>>> onsecond partition? I may even get second external Hard Drive)

>>>>>>> There is another possible alternative to Acronis. That is Slipstream/nLite
>>>>>>> that is a feasible alternative:
>>>>>>> See:
>>>>>>> http://www.theeldergeek.com/slipstreamed_xpsp2_cd.htm
>>>>>>> http://www.nliteos.com
>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 1:44 PM JeremyFlower wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Jeremy Flowers" wrote:
>>>>>>>> "It's point 2) I am most interested. In retrospect I think I should have  
>>>>>>>> partitioned drive, but having never done ASR before, am learning as I go
>>>>>>>> along.
>>>>>>>> Before I go ahead and re-install Java, I want to make sure I've got my
>>>>>>>> system saved so I can restore more easily if Glassfish goes awry again. When
>>>>>>>> you insert XP Install disk it gives you the option to go to ASR via an F key.
>>>>>>>> I take it it's going to need a Microsoft XP compatible USB floppy to begin
>>>>>>>> with?"
>>>>>>>> I hope this now clarifies my earlier dilemna.
>>>>>>>> If the sif files are on a floppy and ASR uses those to do diskpart on C
>>>>>>>> drive, it'll wipe out the backup file that's on the C: drive. Hence shooting
>>>>>>>> myself in foot.
>>>>>>>> So this is why I am asking if I manually partition HD or buy second external
>>>>>>>> HD, and do backup/copy sif files to this, can ASR recovery process detect
>>>>>>>> backup/sifs on second drive or second partition on same drive. (Maybe
>>>>>>>> parition magic can come into play here?)
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 3:53 PM Jim wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Jeremy Flowers" <JeremyFlow...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:C1528445-92C9-4072-8419-6460E103E262@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>>> Jeremy:

>>>>>>>>> I restored the drive in my laptop one day last week using Acronis.  Here is
>>>>>>>>> how:
>>>>>>>>> 1) I have a desktop and a laptop.  I make a backup of the system disk of
>>>>>>>>> each computer every week.  This backup includes all partitions.
>>>>>>>>> 2) At the beginning of each month, I copy the current system backup file for
>>>>>>>>> each computer to DVD media.  I use Easy CD Creator for this task.
>>>>>>>>> 3) I determined that the problems on my laptop actually began sometime in
>>>>>>>>> January.  Hence, the last known good configuration was the December backup.
>>>>>>>>> 4) I took the December backup disks to my desktop where I recreated the
>>>>>>>>> December backup file.   Easy CD Creator will accomplish this task.
>>>>>>>>> 5) I decided not to use the repair partition because I am not certain that
>>>>>>>>> my problems were only caused by software errors.
>>>>>>>>> 6) I put a new disk in a 2.5 inch USB enclosure.
>>>>>>>>> 7) I downloaded the December backup onto this disk with Acronis.
>>>>>>>>> 8) I removed the existing disk from the laptop and replaced it with the disk
>>>>>>>>> I had just created.
>>>>>>>>> 9) I booted the laptop, and all is well.
>>>>>>>>> Can Ntbackup restore hidden partitions?
>>>>>>>>> Can Ntbackup make differential backups?
>>>>>>>>> Can Ntbackup perform a clone operation?

>>>>>>>>> Ntbackup can backup and restore data quite efficiently.

>>>>>>>>> This process took the best part of an afternoon to accomplish.  It would
>>>>>>>>> have taken at least a couple of days to get to the same spot if I had
>>>>>>>>> started with the repair partition.
>>>>>>>>> I may make the repair partition into an Acronis Secure Zone because you can
>>>>>>>>> boot from that and keep on working while Acronis is restoring your system.

>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 5:31 PM JeremyFlower wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Jim" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Can Ntbackup make differential backups?"
>>>>>>>>>> I think you'll find it can via backup type:
>>>>>>>>>> "Normal, Copy, Differential, Incremental, Daily"
>>>>>>>>>> I think you've indirectly hit on another way for me to archive backup file
>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>> On to DVD. I can use Roxio for this. (So sif files which contain partition
>>>>>>>>>> information won't wipe out my backup file)
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry if this seems rude, but Jim.. do you work for Acronis?
>>>>>>>>>> You see I've already decided I'm not going down the Acronis/Ghost route.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking for clarification specifically on the ASR process when you have
>>>>>>>>>> an XP Pro SP2 install disk.
>>>>>>>>>> I've done re-installs manually on several pcs in past. It's just ASR is new
>>>>>>>>>> to me.
>>>>>>>>>> BTW:I've never mentioned anything about "repairing partitions"...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 21, 2008 6:24 PM DL wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I dont work for Acronis; its allways worked for me without any problems
>>>>>>>>>>> There is a fully functioning trial on their site
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never used NTBackup; it was written in the days of floppy & Tape
>>>>>>>>>>> drives
>>>>>>>>>>> MS Has only just got round to producing an updated 'version' and then only
>>>>>>>>>>> in certain flavours of Vista

>>>>>>>>>>> "Jeremy Flowers" <JeremyFlow...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:B93168AE-E426-4D23-9C32-EE56D41B99B1@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:46 PM Karel Rei wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Going through the whole discussion at

>>>>>>>>>>>> microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment

>>>>>>>>>>>> as a non-technical is somewhat experienced computer

>>>>>>>>>>>> user with an XP with no floppy and an oem XP system

>>>>>>>>>>>> (no disk) I have come to what I hope is the reasonable

>>>>>>>>>>>> conclusion that Microsoft does not intend for me to be

>>>>>>>>>>>> able ever to restore my machine from a backup and

>>>>>>>>>>>> that backing up my mlachine is a total waste of time.