When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is already a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there any way to work around this?
With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to login to the same machine from your console login. I typically login as a simply "user" with minimal permissions and then open up a second console window through Terminal Services and login as administrator. If I have some administrative chore on the system it is extremely convenient to be able to switch over to the other console session and do the work as administrator. I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid that practice in Windows XP?
I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome to have to type a long password on each command.
By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to discussion of RDP issues and terminal services? I saw such groups for WindowsNT only.
Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three sessions at once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not being a server operating system, allows only one.
-- Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rghar...@gmail.com * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to. * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/ * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
"Will" <DELETE_wes...@earthbroadcast.com> wrote in message
> When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you > already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is > already > a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there > any way to work around this?
> With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to login to > the same machine from your console login. I typically login as a simply > "user" with minimal permissions and then open up a second console window > through Terminal Services and login as administrator. If I have some > administrative chore on the system it is extremely convenient to be able > to > switch over to the other console session and do the work as administrator. > I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid that practice > in > Windows XP?
> I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome to have to > type a long password on each command.
> By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to discussion of RDP > issues and terminal services? I saw such groups for WindowsNT only.
That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current login to the console as an instance of an RDP session?!
How do I get the terminal services management applications open to see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?
> Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three sessions at > once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not being a server operating > system, allows only one.
> -- > Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rghar...@gmail.com > * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups > * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to. > * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/ > * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> "Will" <DELETE_wes...@earthbroadcast.com> wrote in message > news:j4ydnUARt4HYHiXeRVn-hA@giganews.com... > > When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you > > already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is > > already > > a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there > > any way to work around this?
> > With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to login to > > the same machine from your console login. I typically login as a simply > > "user" with minimal permissions and then open up a second console window > > through Terminal Services and login as administrator. If I have some > > administrative chore on the system it is extremely convenient to be able > > to > > switch over to the other console session and do the work as administrator. > > I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid that practice > > in > > Windows XP?
> > I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome to have to > > type a long password on each command.
> > By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to discussion of RDP > > issues and terminal services? I saw such groups for WindowsNT only.
Will wrote: > When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the > machine you already are logged into appears to fail with a > message that there is already > a console session and you cannot open a second console window. > Is there any way to work around this?
> With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to > login to the same machine from your console login. I typically > login as a simply "user" with minimal permissions and then open > up a second console window through Terminal Services and login as > administrator. If I have some administrative chore on the > system it is extremely convenient to be able to > switch over to the other console session and do the work as > administrator. I can't believe they would take a step backwards > and forbid that practice in > Windows XP?
> I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome > to have to type a long password on each command.
> By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to > discussion of RDP issues and terminal services? I saw such > groups for WindowsNT only. Richard G. Harper wrote: > Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three > sessions at once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not > being a server operating system, allows only one. Will wrote: > That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the > Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box > to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current login to > the console as an instance of an RDP session?!
> How do I get the terminal services management applications open to > see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?
I believe you misunderstood.
First - when you say "Windows 2000" in your original post - you must have meant "Windows 2000 Server" - correct?
Second - when Richard said that Windows 2000/2003 allows up to three sessions at once - he meant "at once".. One local, two remote... That's your possible combination.
Last - when Richard said Windows XP allows only one - he meant only one session (period) - local or remote - not one of each.
Is there a way around that? Sure - you can look for the hack to allow multiple terminal service connections to Windows XP that requires the replacement of a dll from a beta version of Service Pack 2 out on the web - but it is definitely not supported by Microsoft.
Microsoft should allow one console and one remote for Windows XP, specifically to support an administrator session concurrent with a user session, which has many many possible applications, including remote administration of the machine while it is in use, and application installation by the user using a separate console session. Neither of those things has anything to do with being a server or a workstation.
What is the DLL that needs to be replaced to fix this problem? I hate to be using Beta code of course, but it renders the OS of much lower value to me if I cannot administer things in a console environment while I am logged in to the console as a simple user. It's a very bizarre thing Microsoft has done here.
And yes, Windows 2000=Windows 2000 Server.
-- Will
"Shenan Stanley" <newshel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Will wrote: > > That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the > > Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box > > to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current login to > > the console as an instance of an RDP session?!
> > How do I get the terminal services management applications open to > > see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?
> I believe you misunderstood.
> First - when you say "Windows 2000" in your original post - you must have > meant "Windows 2000 Server" - correct?
> Second - when Richard said that Windows 2000/2003 allows up to three > sessions at once - he meant "at once".. One local, two remote... That's your > possible combination.
> Last - when Richard said Windows XP allows only one - he meant only one > session (period) - local or remote - not one of each.
> Is there a way around that? Sure - you can look for the hack to allow > multiple terminal service connections to Windows XP that requires the > replacement of a dll from a beta version of Service Pack 2 out on the web - > but it is definitely not supported by Microsoft.
Windows XP allows only ONE connection of any type, remote or console. As an end-user operating system it is licensed for only one concurrent user.
-- Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rghar...@gmail.com * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to. * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/ * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
"Will" <DELETE_wes...@earthbroadcast.com> wrote in message
> That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the > Windows > XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box to itself using > RDP. They can't be counting the current login to the console as an > instance of an RDP session?!
> How do I get the terminal services management applications open to see > what > RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?
Will wrote: > When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the > machine you already are logged into appears to fail with a > message that there is already > a console session and you cannot open a second console window. > Is there any way to work around this?
> With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to > login to the same machine from your console login. I typically > login as a simply "user" with minimal permissions and then open > up a second console window through Terminal Services and login as > administrator. If I have some administrative chore on the > system it is extremely convenient to be able to > switch over to the other console session and do the work as > administrator. I can't believe they would take a step backwards > and forbid that practice in > Windows XP?
> I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome > to have to type a long password on each command.
> By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to > discussion of RDP issues and terminal services? I saw such > groups for WindowsNT only. Richard G. Harper wrote: > Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three > sessions at once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not > being a server operating system, allows only one. Will wrote: > That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to > the Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP > box to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current > login to the console as an instance of an RDP session?!
> How do I get the terminal services management applications open to > see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there? Shenan Stanley wrote: > I believe you misunderstood.
> First - when you say "Windows 2000" in your original post - you > must have meant "Windows 2000 Server" - correct?
> Second - when Richard said that Windows 2000/2003 allows up to > three sessions at once - he meant "at once".. One local, two > remote... That's your possible combination.
> Last - when Richard said Windows XP allows only one - he meant > only one session (period) - local or remote - not one of each.
> Is there a way around that? Sure - you can look for the hack to > allow multiple terminal service connections to Windows XP that > requires the replacement of a dll from a beta version of Service > Pack 2 out on the web - but it is definitely not supported by Microsoft. Will wrote: > Microsoft should allow one console and one remote for Windows XP, > specifically to support an administrator session concurrent with a > user session, which has many many possible applications, including > remote administration of the machine while it is in use, and > application installation by the user using a separate console > session. Neither of those things has anything to do with being a > server or a workstation.
> What is the DLL that needs to be replaced to fix this problem? I > hate to be using Beta code of course, but it renders the OS of much > lower value to me if I cannot administer things in a console > environment while I am logged in to the console as a simple user. > It's a very bizarre thing Microsoft has done here.
> And yes, Windows 2000=Windows 2000 Server.
You should not expect a Server Operating system and a Workstation operating System to have the same feature sets.
You first stated:
"I can't believe they would take a step backwards (from Windows 2000) and forbid that practice in Windows XP?"
.. but you left out that you meant "Windows 2000 Server".
Windows XP Professional (an upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional workstation) allows Remote Desktop where Windows 2000 Professional (workstation) does not even have that capability. Only the server version of Windows 2000 had Terminal Services. You were comparing Apples and Oranges in the first place. (Server vs. workstation OS.)
If you want the same functionality you had in your previous OS - stay within the same family of products. If you ran a server OS before - you should upgrade to its next level (Windows 2003) in order to maintain an enhanced/improved feature set from that family of OSes (server) instead of jumping down to the less-feature rich workstation family.
Having said that - I gave you all you needed to find the hacked DLL from the beta version of SP2.. A Google search for Multiple Remote Desktop Sessions in Windows XP should get you what you need to make it work in Windows XP (albeit unsupported.) However - I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not sticking with the family of products you locked yourself into originally.
> You should not expect a Server Operating system and a Workstation operating > System to have the same feature sets.
> Windows XP Professional (an upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional > workstation) allows Remote Desktop where Windows 2000 Professional > (workstation) does not even have that capability. Only the server version > of Windows 2000 had Terminal Services. You were comparing Apples and > Oranges in the first place. (Server vs. workstation OS.)
You are making generalizations. Those aren't useful in the context of a discussion about specific features.
It's a legitimate requirement for a workstation product to have a secure administration mode for that product. It's bad reasoning to say that they should cripple the current workstation product because the former workstation product was even more crippled.
Any workstation needs administration. And as any good UNIX administrator can tell you, you should never login to a primary console session as administrator. Using the the Windows Run As command while logged in as a user helps, but it's often more useful to have a background administrative session going at the same time that you are logged in as a user. Since Microsoft pretends to care about security these days, they should learn something from the competition in this case.
I'm not asking for terminal services as an application server on Windows XP. That is something you should certainly only get in the server version of the product. I'm asking for one miserable concurrent administrative login session, and I'm asking Microsoft to do all of its users a favor and put that requirement in for a future update of Windows XP. It's not something we should have to be downloading hacked beta code to do (although I appreciate your letting me know about that option).
Will wrote: > "Shenan Stanley" <newshel...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:eikeLyGEGHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... >> You should not expect a Server Operating system and a Workstation >> operating System to have the same feature sets.
>> Windows XP Professional (an upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional >> workstation) allows Remote Desktop where Windows 2000 Professional >> (workstation) does not even have that capability. Only the server >> version of Windows 2000 had Terminal Services. You were comparing >> Apples and Oranges in the first place. (Server vs. workstation >> OS.)
> You are making generalizations. Those aren't useful in the > context of a discussion about specific features.
You said you used Windows 2000 Server before and it allowed multiple TS sessions.
Windows 2000 Workstation never even had Terminal Services.
You stated, "I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid that practice in Windows XP?".
Which would imply that Windows XP should have been - in your mind - an UPGRADE to Windows 2000 server - when in fact it is not - it is a different type of OS (server vs workstation.) This assumption was incorrect. Windows XP was never meant to replace Windows 2000 Server - so expecting the features of one type of OS (server) to be included in another type of OS (workstation) is stretching things.
> It's a legitimate requirement for a workstation product to have a > secure administration mode for that product. It's bad reasoning > to say that they should cripple the current workstation product > because the former workstation product was even more crippled.
I never said that - and it XP is an improved OS over Windows 2000 because there is a remote desktop feature as well as remote assistance. It is not crippled - it, in fact, gained features. I said that it was a bad assumption to go from a server OS to a workstation OS and expect that all of the features from one had magically been included in the other. =)
Aslo - there is a way to run administrative tasks as a non-admin user - just because you think it is easier to use Remote Desktop doesn't mean RUNAS is not equally as useful.
> Any workstation needs administration. And as any good UNIX > administrator can tell you, you should never login to a primary > console session as administrator. Using the the Windows Run As > command while logged in as a user helps, but it's often more useful > to have a background administrative session going at the same time > that you are logged in as a user. Since Microsoft pretends to > care about security these days, they should learn something from > the competition in this case.
Well - personally I do believe it is more secure to have to use the RUNAS..
Think of it like this.. thousands of people use Windows XP Professional everyday and do not know that Remote Desktop even exists - although it may be turned on, hole poked through the software firewall, etc. *If* more than one session was allowed without interfering with the primary session in any way - that would be a big secuirty hole for those thousands (millions likely) of uninitiated computer users - since it is just another backdoor that an uncaring public would leave wide open. Not saying that it would be easily exploited - but it could be - like any other trojan backdoor device - and one built into the OS! yay!
No - I feel RUNAS - as inconvenient as it might seem - is just as useful if you take the time to learn to use it and setup your shortcuts to the necessary functionality you need beforehand. Then you can run as a USER but easily access the necessary admin functions you need with a double-click on one of your shortcuts.
> I'm not asking for terminal services as an application server on > Windows XP. That is something you should certainly only get in the > server version of the product. I'm asking for one miserable > concurrent administrative login session, and I'm asking Microsoft > to do all of its users a favor and put that requirement in for a > future update of Windows XP. It's not something we should have to > be downloading hacked beta code to do (although I appreciate your > letting me know about that option).
And it might be available in Vista - who knows? It was almost amade available in SP2 - but was not. My guess was for security reasons - but it could be greed or anything else for that matter.
> You stated, "I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid > that practice in Windows XP?".
> Which would imply that Windows XP should have been - in your mind - an > UPGRADE to Windows 2000 server - when in fact it is not - it is a different > type of OS (server vs workstation.) This assumption was incorrect. Windows > XP was never meant to replace Windows 2000 Server - so expecting the > features of one type of OS (server) to be included in another type of OS > (workstation) is stretching things.
I understand the history, and yes I made a mistake in saying something that implied Windows XP was a descendent of Windows 2000 Server. Having said that, it's no longer relevant to this thread. The only thing that is relevant is should Windows XP have the ability to have a concurrent user logon and one additional RDP administrator logon concurrently.
As an option that you could turn on manually when you need to use it, it would certainly have a good use. Run As also has its place.
Will wrote: > I understand the history, and yes I made a mistake in saying > something that implied Windows XP was a descendent of Windows 2000 > Server. Having said that, it's no longer relevant to this thread. > The only thing that is relevant is should Windows XP have the > ability to have a concurrent user logon and one additional RDP > administrator logon concurrently.
> As an option that you could turn on manually when you need to use > it, it would certainly have a good use. Run As also has its place.
Would it be useful to be able to log concurrently into Windows XP?
Yes. Very much so - in reference to corporate users and fixing things in the background of their machine(s) or doing unique software installs (without bothering the user) when a push situations wouldn't work (albeit seldomly needed - but sometimes just faster in the short run.)
Could it have a use in the way you describe it? Not remotely logging into a system, but in fact a concurrent logon to your own PC for administrative purposes?
- As a software developer - I could see this being very useful. But "Switch User" would work as well and is already part of the system. However, it could be that the software developer is in a larger environment (domain) and thus this option is not available - so again a viable option for testing and tweaking. - As a stand-alone user - I doubt this 'feature' would get used much - since switch user is already available in all versions of XP not joined to a domain. - As a system administrator (large or small) - I could see the use remotely, but as for one's own system - I still have trouble seeing the usefulness - but arguments for and against can go both ways for this group - depending on style of administration (GUI or command-line oriented.)
So if I was going to vote one way or another - perhaps a feature available in the Professional editions but not the home (which is easily implemented at this point, since Home does not have Remote Desktop anyway) and/or one only available *if* "Fast User Switching" was turned off - such as would occur in a domain environment.
Although the way I put it may seem restrictive - at least you know in that way it would not be turned on "by accident" by "Joe Public" and thus a possible source of future security issues. It also gives System Administrators and software developers more options once in a domain environment for managing their own and other systems.
> Although the way I put it may seem restrictive - at least you know in that > way it would not be turned on "by accident" by "Joe Public" and thus a > possible source of future security issues. It also gives System > Administrators and software developers more options once in a domain > environment for managing their own and other systems.
I pretty much agree with the idea of allowing switch user for low end users to login as administrator concurrently with a user login. And I also agree that for domain users having a real RDP session logged in concurrently as admin would be a very desirable option.
Just a quick followup on this thread. Your suggestion was to use the local switch users functionality in Windows XP since you cannot use Remote Desktop on the computer while logged in through the console. The problem I am finding with this suggestion is that in order to enable fast user switching you must leave the default Windows XP login screen visible. The problem with that is security. The Windows 2003 / Windows 2000 style login presents a dialog that can only be read by Windows itself, and cannot be hooked by a third party application. Using the default Windows XP login, a trojan you have downloaded could sniff your keystrokes, and thereby gain access to your account password.
-- Will
"Shenan Stanley" <newshel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Will wrote: > > I understand the history, and yes I made a mistake in saying > > something that implied Windows XP was a descendent of Windows 2000 > > Server. Having said that, it's no longer relevant to this thread. > > The only thing that is relevant is should Windows XP have the > > ability to have a concurrent user logon and one additional RDP > > administrator logon concurrently.
> > As an option that you could turn on manually when you need to use > > it, it would certainly have a good use. Run As also has its place.
> Would it be useful to be able to log concurrently into Windows XP?
> Yes. Very much so - in reference to corporate users and fixing things in > the background of their machine(s) or doing unique software installs > (without bothering the user) when a push situations wouldn't work (albeit > seldomly needed - but sometimes just faster in the short run.)
> Could it have a use in the way you describe it? Not remotely logging into a > system, but in fact a concurrent logon to your own PC for administrative > purposes?
> - As a software developer - I could see this being very useful. But "Switch > User" would work as well and is already part of the system. However, it > could be that the software developer is in a larger environment (domain) and > thus this option is not available - so again a viable option for testing and > tweaking. > - As a stand-alone user - I doubt this 'feature' would get used much - since > switch user is already available in all versions of XP not joined to a > domain. > - As a system administrator (large or small) - I could see the use remotely, > but as for one's own system - I still have trouble seeing the usefulness - > but arguments for and against can go both ways for this group - depending on > style of administration (GUI or command-line oriented.)
> So if I was going to vote one way or another - perhaps a feature available > in the Professional editions but not the home (which is easily implemented > at this point, since Home does not have Remote Desktop anyway) and/or one > only available *if* "Fast User Switching" was turned off - such as would > occur in a domain environment.
> Although the way I put it may seem restrictive - at least you know in that > way it would not be turned on "by accident" by "Joe Public" and thus a > possible source of future security issues. It also gives System > Administrators and software developers more options once in a domain > environment for managing their own and other systems.
"Will" <DELETE_wes...@earthbroadcast.com> wrote in message
news:j4ydnUARt4HYHiXeRVn-hA@giganews.com... : When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you : already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is already : a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there : any way to work around this?
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